Skip to main content
Topic: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 14: Carlton vs Collingwood (Read 14286 times) previous topic - next topic
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 14: Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #165
Tuesday arvo calmness - well at least I hope that comes through the post!
I agree we may have lost it in selection - but then I look at this with calmness and think who else could we bring in?
At some point form has to be the key. Both Dow and Polson were showing form - it isn't anyone's fault the games they are playing in resemble little of the action in senior footy.
Further to this I am fascinated with Polson. When played as a fwd he displayed to me dear in a headlight symptoms. Would run fast, miss easy marks and kicking was an issue. The move to defence is a good move for him and the team - as we have a shortage here with no access to Stocker atm.  So when I saw Polson take the ball and run out of defence early in the first qtr I felt this was what the coaches wanted - dare, pace, carry. They would know kicking is an issue but the other key points come first. Then my joy changed.
I noticed Polson look down field, then look behind to Simpson to handball backwards. At this point I had to pause as I simply can't determine from the vision if he looked back cos Simpson was screaming to him to do this - or if no fwd was leading to the space his kick could reach? It wouldn't surprise me to see down field vision of no one running to the space to warrant a lead as our fwds currently aren't the smartest bunch. Here is when I feel for Polson - his very first involvement looked good but ended poorly with a turn over - a 50 50 kick in hope, Well we all should know this isn't the first time in a very long time this has happened. Bloody hell our joint captain gave away our fist goal with the worse kick I have ever seen him do - talk about setting the tone. We are a confidence team and a good start has always been vital.
I'm pretty confident Polson spent solid time on the pine. Most likely dragged as Teague is displaying very little patience for youth anymore and their mistakes. Let's not forget this was one of the biggest criticisms of Ratten - wouldn't play or develop the young guys enough. Tended to stick to the core of senior players. I fear we are headed down this path again. We can't have the SOS injection of youth - and our Exec committee saying this is the re-build we needed. Then bye to SOS and Teague shows strong signs of not backing enough of the youth. For example...He brings in Honey v Freo. Wet rainy conditions. Not allowing to displaying his skill set. I felt his touch was very good considering - so why drop him? One match in the wet - give me a spell. We stuck with Cottrell who showed some very good signs up until needing a rest. Honey is explosive as is Philp. Pace is what we are screaming for. Play these 2 then. Give Eddie a rest for example. Or rotate him on the bench more - thus dropping a big guy. We are way too tall against any team.
With Dow he also is fascinating. We all know kicking is a real issue. Yet in the twos it's not as noticeable. My issue with him is a perceived lack of hunger for the contest. And a real fear to kick the ball. Many times I saw a lack of desire to tackle - and when he did Collingwood players easily brushed him off. My read of Teague is this would be the number 1 thing he wouldn't like. A lack of defensive pressure (hence O'Brien not playing imo).
If this can't be taught or injected in to these players, under Teague they simply won't get a game or will be de-listed.
It will be fascinating to see if they persist with Dow and Polson in an absolute must win match. this to me will say so much about our current coaching and selection crew. PS is Sav Rocca still the kicking coach? I recall 2 years a go Cripps nailing a high percentage of set shots and having a clear method to his pre kick routine. For a star like him I am amazed his routine this year (which CLEARLY) isn't working - hasn't been amended. If he is injured which affects his kicking - don't bloody put him fwd!! Calmness gone sorry...



Teague is still playing the kids.  He's rotating them through the key roles rather than throwing them in the deep end.

As for the polson assertion he had 80% time on ground against Collingwood according to afl tables.

He's stuck by de koning as another example.  Don't worry too much about the first year kids and them not getting more than a bit of a taste.  They'll get their time in the sun.

Weve spent a bit of time trying to keep our line up settled and thats what Luke hodge reckons will help our team.  Continuity.  We haven't seen much of it over the last 5 years.
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 14: Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #166
Keogh....I've posted it before and didn't want to torture the readers again.....but if you look at the 2014 Draft, that was the killer! An absolute disaster....blokes from that draft would now be in their prime years but not one of them is left at the club.
Indeed. The 2014 was awful. Other teams made better choices. We traded ordinarily, but we drafted disastrously. That draft put us back probably 2 years all it itself.
Live Long and Prosper!

Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 14: Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #167
The small defender role is important in terms of the player having to be a very good user of the ball these days and be able to hit targets under pressure to clear the ball.
Lets give Polson a pass on defending but IMO his use of the ball, decision making wont stand up under pressure from really good teams. The player we really needed to nail as a trade was Saad...he was a bad miss for us, can defend, has pace and is a decent kick and decision maker, shame he picked EFC and I wish we had probably offered a bit more money to sway his opinion.

Saad?  Your kidding EB! 

The bloke’s run at all costs modus operandi is well in to Emu territory, and I don’t ever want to see that from another Carlton player.
“Why don’t you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don’t you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don’t you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?”  Oddball

Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 14: Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #168
Saad?  Your kidding EB! 

The bloke’s run at all costs modus operandi is well in to Emu territory, and I don’t ever want to see that from another Carlton player.
I agree with both of you, in that Saad's run is elite and we lack that sort of drive off the HBF, and I agree that he can run himself into trouble just like Williamson has been doing recently.

But some of that trouble for both Saad and Williamson comes from team-mates leading into the wrong places and creating roadblocks. As team-mates get to know and trust the runner they'll learn to create space for them to run into and won't run towards them closing the space up!

Same thing affects Fisher, we see team-mates thinking they are doing the right thing by running towards him to assist, when all the team-mate is really doing is dragging an opponent into the clear space.

Our team needs to trust that with a few metres of clear space and a head of steam the likes of Fisher and Williamson can keep clear to gain 20 or 30 metres.
The Force Awakens!

Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 14: Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #169
There is a lot of rubbish being posted in social and professional media about our loss to the Filth, but we shouldn't take too much notice of it.

Why...........it's clear to me the loss was different?

It was different because in the bad old days we lost because we couldn't get the football, we'd be beaten to it, lose the contest and be out-marked, we never looked in the contest.

Last weekend we won as much football as our opponents, we won as many if not more contests, we won as many if not more marking contests, and we found as much run and space as any Filth opponent. We generated as many if not more I50s, but the big difference is we burnt the I50s with poor decision making and disposal, leaving Moore to clean up over and over again in what I think made him BoG. We can easily fix this, the coach knows it, the MC knows it, the players just have to learn it! I'd suggest most of the efficiency deficits shown in the image below come about when we entered F50.
The Force Awakens!

Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 14: Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #170
Agree with the thrust of the above post.  This time,  after twenty or so years, the pies took us seriously.  We're not a contender yet,  but we're no longer the utter joke of the past.  Our list and coaching stuff need to learn how to win (made inroads on that this year), play well in,  and then progress to winning big,  high pressure games.  
DrE is no more... you ok with that harmonica man?

Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 14: Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #171
Yes, LP and the Prof have nailed it!

It was drummed into me at a very young age that Carlton supporters must not tolerate losses.  However, after a couple of days have passed and the disappointment has dissipated somewhat, there are positives to take out of the game.
“Why don’t you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don’t you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don’t you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?”  Oddball

Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 14: Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #172
Teague is still playing the kids.  He's rotating them through the key roles rather than throwing them in the deep end.

As for the polson assertion he had 80% time on ground against Collingwood according to afl tables.

He's stuck by de koning as another example.  Don't worry too much about the first year kids and them not getting more than a bit of a taste.  They'll get their time in the sun.

Weve spent a bit of time trying to keep our line up settled and thats what Luke hodge reckons will help our team.  Continuity.  We haven't seen much of it over the last 5 years.

Agree with your last point that a consistent line up is a key and something we haven't had for some time. My pint was more in this season with so many games and inconsistent rest periods we could have benefited from resting a few more. And to my first point outside of Dow and Polson not much else outside of Philp and Honey imo
Pls kick straight Harry

Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 14: Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #173
Agree with your last point that a consistent line up is a key and something we haven't had for some time. My pint was more in this season with so many games and inconsistent rest periods we could have benefited from resting a few more. And to my first point outside of Dow and Polson not much else outside of Philp and Honey imo

We actually havent had a heavy schedule yet though.  From memory, I think our shortest break was 5 days (correct me if Im wrong anyone) and it only happened once.

Have a look at how people have reacted to one loss in which we rested Cottrell and SPS, to bring in Polson and Dow.

Teague's on a hiding to nothing in that equation.

Not saying your point isnt worth considering, just challenging it to make sure its one to consider.   I think we will see a few more trialled coming up too, but time will tell.

Yes, LP and the Prof have nailed it!

It was drummed into me at a very young age that Carlton supporters must not tolerate losses.  However, after a couple of days have passed and the disappointment has dissipated somewhat, there are positives to take out of the game.

Yep, I said this in another thread, our biggest sin against Collingwood wasnt capitalising on the sustained pressure we were putting on and our time in forward half.  For some reason we seemed unwilling to have a go for goal.  Martins pulled kick to Cripps might tell a story in itself.  I thought he was in range and he decided to go short, we might have a few more soft tissue issues than we first thought, and the advise might be to go short rather than long.

I havent seen anyone try and pot one 40+ out for a few weeks.  
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 14: Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #174
I was very disappointed with the result. I am actually a bit surprised by the lack of vitriol on this site. I said before the game that to defeat Collingwood you had to beat their midfield and the truth is that Pendlebury, Thomas and Adams beat Cripps, Murphy and Curnow. While Walsh, Curnow and Setterfield were amongst our better players, especially after half time, we just didn't get the drive thru the midfield Collingwood were able to generate. I have said before that we lack pace and while guys like Cuningham, Dow, Fisher, O'Brien, Polson, Philp and Honey all have it, there is never enough of them in the one side in any given match for various reasons to actually have an impact on the game. Thomas really exposed our lack of pace from the contest. The question is can the players I mentioned become a Prestia type player.
The narrative in the media was Carlton was a near full strength Carlton was unable to defeat an undermanned Collingwood. Obviously the availability of Silvagni, Samo, Kennedy, Kreuzer, McGovern, Marchbank, Newman, Cuningham and Charlie, would have no impact on the quality of the team we put out on Sunday. Cornes is a goose and he has a real set against Samo who he seemed to blame for our loss even though he didn't play. It is hard to have an impact on a game if you are not out on the ground. I am quite happy that a lot our young players are playing in the reserves, developing their skills and bodies. I was actually surprised by the change in body shape of Dow. Because of circumstances we have been sending young kids out against men over the past few years. It should be noted that Alex Rance didn't become an all Australian until his seventh season.
Our forward line failed again after half time. I thought nine goals would win the game and when we were seven at half-time, I was quite confident. Not to kick a goal after half-time was quite disappointing. Eddie should have been give a free, Cripps should have kicked the one in the last quarter, and I have no idea what was going thru Martin's head at the end of the third. It is one of my enduring criticism that not enough Carlton players are willing to take on the responsibility of kicking goals. Cuningham is one of the few who is always willing to back himself. I thought our entries into the F50 were too shallow. We seemed to be trying to hit someone in a crowded forward line with a dinky 15 meter pass when we should have bee getting the ball to the top of the square. If you get the ball to the square and you take marks and kick crumbing goals, the forward area will open up as the defenders will be forced to defend closer to goal. If you keep kicking shallow entry balls, then the defenders will press up.

Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 14: Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #175
We actually havent had a heavy schedule yet though.  From memory, I think our shortest break was 5 days (correct me if Im wrong anyone) and it only happened once.

Have a look at how people have reacted to one loss in which we rested Cottrell and SPS, to bring in Polson and Dow.

Teague's on a hiding to nothing in that equation.

Not saying your point isnt worth considering, just challenging it to make sure its one to consider.  I think we will see a few more trialled coming up too, but time will tell.

Yep, I said this in another thread, our biggest sin against Collingwood wasnt capitalising on the sustained pressure we were putting on and our time in forward half.  For some reason we seemed unwilling to have a go for goal.  Martins pulled kick to Cripps might tell a story in itself.  I thought he was in range and he decided to go short, we might have a few more soft tissue issues than we first thought, and the advise might be to go short rather than long.

I havent seen anyone try and pot one 40+ out for a few weeks.
Yes we had several last weekend, it's a bit odd, so maybe one of our coaches or a player is bashing the players about missing set shots because we've lost a few close games!

If so the coach or player should shut the feck up, it doesn't make things better it only makes things happen like you have described!
The Force Awakens!

Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 14: Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #176
Saad?  Your kidding EB! 

The bloke’s run at all costs modus operandi is well in to Emu territory, and I don’t ever want to see that from another Carlton player.

No I am not kidding DJ...SOS wanted him and for good reason...
From Wikipedia... Renowned for his precise kicking and ability to break the lines and cut angles to evade opponents
None of our players could be labelled precise kicks, break the lines?? a foreign concept to our team having that type of player doing that consistently and not just a one off..and cut angles to evade opponents?, once again our blokes tend to create angles and run into opponents more often than not and get pinged with the ball or turn it over.
IMHO Saad is exactly what we need coming out of the backpocket and if you team him with Zac Williams there is your rebound pace problems solved and someone like SPS can play in his comfort zone more and be used to carry the ball after Saad and Williams hit him up..

Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 14: Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #177
I think the anger, disappointment etc from the Collingwood match stemmed more from the contrast between halves.
We more than matched them in then first half but couldn't go with them in a goalless second half.

If you think you're in with a real chance at half time and it ends up a bit one sided at the end that's disappointing.
It would be interesting to see a comparison of some of those key stats before and after half time.

Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 14: Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #178
Agreed Lods....it's become a bit of a disturbing trend under Teague as the coach. The inability to play 4 quarters of footy. We seem to either give teams a 4-5 goal start and then spend a lot of energy hauling them in....or we get a big lead up and then just completely stop and go back into our shell and stop the style of game we were playing to get in front in the first place. There'd only be 3-4 games I can think of where we've dominated and played 4 quarters of footy.

Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 14: Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #179
you beat collingwood by stopping there run from defence it is so simple ,happened last year and i blame our coaches for not adjusting during game . plowman on stephenson ,he is to quick + space to lead  LP got no hope so why didn't the coaches make the change