Carlton Supporters Club

Which players 'missed the flight' to Brisbane?

Robinson.  Robinson. Robinson Robinson Robinson Robinson robinson

Was at the game, what a load of crap....
The boys jogged most of the game, murphys worst game I have ever seen.
The only upside white and Rowe.

I bet if I followed the refs after the game, they would have been at love and rockets in the valley living it up.

I hope half the side gets sold off or given away at the end of season we need soldiers who can play interstate and win more then 4 games in a row..

Carrazzo (gone) , Robinson (ridiculous) , Touhy ( Bullants )

Murphy, Gibbs, Warnock, Ellard, Casboult, Waite just missed the cut.

Thought this thread would be inundated, everyone having their "two-penneth".
I guess the difficulty is limiting it to three

Robbo gives his all, shame he was ineffective
Levi had a purple patch when he went in to the ruck, and we starting getting the clearances.

My nominations
Waite
McLean
Tuohy

Buckley, Carrazzo, Warnock.

Buckley - non existent
Carrazzo - looked underdone, didn't contribute much at all
Warnock - May cop some heat with this one. was decent in the ruck but around the ground he was poor. There was some incidences where he just had to do more, ie make space. I saw him on the bottom of my screen a few times just stand and watch where he could have presented for the ball and set a play up.   

Robinson was ineffective but tried.

Waite by a country mile. I wouldn't be surprised if he never plays a senior game ever again.
Special mentions:
2E
Hendo (if he's injured rest him FFS)

One of Jarrad's shockers, after a good one last week.
Menzel started like a rocket then disappeared, which can happen with young fellas.
Brisbane lost their ruckman before half time and Warnock still didn't take a single mark for the game, he's taken 9 in 10 matches so far this season and 4 of them were in one game.
Buckley was largely invisible and completely ineffective, see Menzel above.
Carratts was starting to find some form before he got injured, I wouldn't be writing him off.
Casboult, Rowe and Ellard just aren't much good, White is only marginally better, we can cover them when we play better but when we have a bad game they get exposed.

One of Jarrad's shockers, after a good one last week.
Menzel started like a rocket then disappeared, which can happen with young fellas.
Brisbane lost their ruckman before half time and Warnock still didn't take a single mark for the game, he's taken 9 in 10 matches so far this season and 4 of them were in one game.
Buckley was largely invisible and completely ineffective, see Menzel above.
Carratts was starting to find some form before he got injured, I wouldn't be writing him off.
Casboult, Rowe and Ellard just aren't much good, White is only marginally better, we can cover them when we play better but when we have a bad game they get exposed.

Nothing wrong with White or Rowe (and I have been a massive critic) tonite or in weeks gone by. Problems are elsewhere.

Nothing wrong with White or Rowe (and I have been a massive critic) tonite or in weeks gone by. Problems are elsewhere.

Ask yourself whether either of them, or Casboult, or Ellard, would get a regular game at a top 8 club.

Quote from: Gointocarlton on May 31, 2014, 09:41:59 pm

Nothing wrong with White or Rowe (and I have been a massive critic) tonite or in weeks gone by. Problems are elsewhere.

Ask yourself whether either of them, or Casboult, or Ellard, would get a regular game at a top 8 club.

I reckon they'd all get a run at another club.

Ross Lyon would give a testicle for another marking target or another KPD.

Ellard would be the one least likely to get a regular game but he'd probably get I a few lists as back up.

The issue isn't always how good the player is it's how many good players they have around them.

We are short 4 quality mid sized players.

Quote from: Gointocarlton on May 31, 2014, 09:41:59 pm

Nothing wrong with White or Rowe (and I have been a massive critic) tonite or in weeks gone by. Problems are elsewhere.

Ask yourself whether either of them, or Casboult, or Ellard, would get a regular game at a top 8 club.

If those top 8 clubs had the holes we have in our team then yes the would

I reckon they'd all get a run at another club.

Ross Lyon would give a testicle for another marking target or another KPD.

Ellard would be the one least likely to get a regular game but he'd probably get I a few lists as back up.

The issue isn't always how good the player is it's how many good players they have around them.

We are short 4 quality mid sized players.

We all see things differently.
I think we look much better with Henderson at CHB but he simply has to play forward because Waite is perennially injured and hit and miss when he's fit, I honestly don't think Rowe, Casboult or Ellard would be picked up if we delisted them, and White would only be a rough show.
It's not really a reflection on them, it's just an indication of how bad our list is, there are at least half a dozen other senior listed players who would disappear without a trace if we cut them, Bootsma, Lucas, McInness and Watson are four that come to mind.
We are paying the price for a decade of woeful recruiting, our current situation shouldn't come as a surprise.

Quote from: Gointocarlton on May 31, 2014, 09:41:59 pm

Nothing wrong with White or Rowe (and I have been a massive critic) tonite or in weeks gone by. Problems are elsewhere.

Ask yourself whether either of them, or Casboult, or Ellard, would get a regular game at a top 8 club.

Mate I have said many times, I would struggle to name 5-10 on our list that would get a game with another Club. What I meant with Rowe and White was that they were far (very far in fact) from our worst tonite. They are not the reason we lost. In fact, if some others put in the same effort as those two, we would have come away with the 4 pts.

Quote from: blue4life on May 31, 2014, 09:50:11 pm

Quote from: Gointocarlton on May 31, 2014, 09:41:59 pm

Nothing wrong with White or Rowe (and I have been a massive critic) tonite or in weeks gone by. Problems are elsewhere.

Ask yourself whether either of them, or Casboult, or Ellard, would get a regular game at a top 8 club.

Mate I have said many times, I would struggle to name 5-10 on our list that would get a game with another Club. What I meant with Rowe and White was that they were far (very far in fact) from our worst tonite. They are not the reason we lost. In fact, if some others put in the same effort as those two, we would have come away with the 4 pts.

I agree that they weren't the reason we lost, I also agree they weren't our worst, what I'm saying is that if Rowe, Casboult and Ellard are all getting regular games then we obviously lack quality footballers.
I'm not bagging them as individuals, and I know there's nothing any better in the VFL, which is what is so depressing.

Quote from: Gointocarlton on May 31, 2014, 09:41:59 pm

Nothing wrong with White or Rowe (and I have been a massive critic) tonite or in weeks gone by. Problems are elsewhere.

Ask yourself whether either of them, or Casboult, or Ellard, would get a regular game at a top 8 club.

Laidler is. Straight from the Northern Bullants into a highly possible premiership side at the height of their game.

Sometimes we're surprised by what happens.

Warnock - May cop some heat with this one. was decent in the ruck but around the ground he was poor. There was some incidences where he just had to do more, ie make space. I saw him on the bottom of my screen a few times just stand and watch where he could have presented for the ball and set a play up.   

He had 14 disposals
5 clearances himself.
2 inside 50's
and a goal assist....which at a guess was the brilliant tap down Garletts throat for a goal.

oh and he had 57 hitouts.

Which happens to be equal 8th highest hitouts in a game of ALL TIME.

I think we had some worse players than that.

, murphys worst game I have ever seen.

I think I need to get the Foxtel man out, there is obviously something wrong with my reception.......

Quote from: Sos01 on May 31, 2014, 08:28:47 pm

, murphys worst game I have ever seen.

I think I need to get the Foxtel man out, there is obviously something wrong with my reception.......

Think the stat guys need to get their eyes checked too.

38 disposals (game high)
22 kicks (game high)
16 handballs (team high)
8 marks (team high)
4 clearances (=3rd)
3 rebounds 50 (=2nd)
6 tackles (=1st)
2 bounces (=1st)
7 inside 50's (=1st)
1 goal

Laidler is. Straight from the Northern Bullants into a highly possible premiership side at the height of their game.

Sometimes we're surprised by what happens.

That Laidler is getting a game at Sydney is irrelevant to whether Rowe, Casboult or Ellard would.
Ted Richards wasn't getting a regular game at Essendon either, North delisted Leigh Brown, Geelong got Tom Harley from Port for next to nothing, ditto North with Peter Bell, it happens.

Quote from: BeNavy on May 31, 2014, 09:21:28 pm

Warnock - May cop some heat with this one. was decent in the ruck but around the ground he was poor. There was some incidences where he just had to do more, ie make space. I saw him on the bottom of my screen a few times just stand and watch where he could have presented for the ball and set a play up.   

He had 14 disposals
5 clearances himself.
2 inside 50's
and a goal assist....which at a guess was the brilliant tap down Garletts throat for a goal.

oh and he had 57 hitouts.

Which happens to be equal 8th highest hitouts in a game of ALL TIME.

I think we had some worse players than that.

Warnock wasn't among our worst players but he didn't have a genuine opponent for most of the game, and he couldn't manage to take a mark.

Waite & Tuohy.

Quote from: laj on May 31, 2014, 11:46:13 pm

Laidler is. Straight from the Northern Bullants into a highly possible premiership side at the height of their game.

Sometimes we're surprised by what happens.

That Laidler is getting a game at Sydney is irrelevant to whether Rowe, Casboult or Ellard would.
Ted Richards wasn't getting a regular game at Essendon either, North delisted Leigh Brown, Geelong got Tom Harley from Port for next to nothing, ditto North with Peter Bell, it happens.

Not irrelevant at all. Same type of situation. You talk about players of lower standards not getting a game at better clubs then you promptly name quite a few who did. If Laidler can get one, and Teddy Richards at the time got one, and others you talk about got a game after being delisted  it means those you speak about could possibly get one too. All it does is partially de-bunk your argument about certain standard players getting games at top clubs. Says more about our club getting the best out of players more so  than their ability. I reckon Casboult could get picked up by a club anyway. Club s are always on the lookout for a big bloke who can mark. As for Ellard he's just the type a Sydney could get the best out of. We can't but Sydney could.

Laidler could go from our reserves to a flag in one year, as did Mitch Morton from Richmond, Richards, Brown and Bell played in premiership sides.

Quote from: kruddler on June 01, 2014, 08:46:43 am

Quote from: BeNavy on May 31, 2014, 09:21:28 pm

Warnock - May cop some heat with this one. was decent in the ruck but around the ground he was poor. There was some incidences where he just had to do more, ie make space. I saw him on the bottom of my screen a few times just stand and watch where he could have presented for the ball and set a play up.   

He had 14 disposals
5 clearances himself.
2 inside 50's
and a goal assist....which at a guess was the brilliant tap down Garletts throat for a goal.

oh and he had 57 hitouts.

Which happens to be equal 8th highest hitouts in a game of ALL TIME.

I think we had some worse players than that.

Warnock wasn't among our worst players but he didn't have a genuine opponent for most of the game, and he couldn't manage to take a mark.

Fair call, I have "cooled down" since the game and see your point. But my points on warnock still stand. Should done more and it's not like he can't either, he was in decent form over the last few games.

Not irrelevant at all. Same type of situation. You talk about players of lower standards not getting a game at better clubs then you promptly name quite a few who did. If Laidler can get one, and Teddy Richards at the time got one, and others you talk about got a game after being delisted  it means those you speak about could possibly get one too. All it does is partially de-bunk your argument about certain standard players getting games at top clubs. Says more about our club getting the best out of players more so  than their ability. I reckon Casboult could get picked up by a club anyway. Club s are always on the lookout for a big bloke who can mark. As for Ellard he's just the type a Sydney could get the best out of. We can't but Sydney could.

Laidler could go from our reserves to a flag in one year, as did Mitch Morton from Richmond, Richards, Brown and Bell played in premiership sides.

It's a matter of opinion really, and anything is possible.
For every Ted Richards or Leigh Brown there are dozens of players who are delisted and disappear without a trace, or players who are given an opportunity at another club and last five minutes, Jordan Russell is a case in point.
We've picked up plenty of discards ourself over the last decade and only Carrazzo and Scotland have really managed to make a mark, I could easily list another 30 who came and went without a murmer.
Of all the players we've delisted over the past decade, and there have been plenty, Laidler is the only one who comes to mind who has (so far) managed to hold down a regular spot with a good team.

Buckley, Carrazzo and Ellard.

Buckley;   Looked out of it, shy, timid and nervous. Doubt he was fit to play but we played him.

Carrazzo;  It's over for Carrots, he just doesn't know it yet!

Ellard;  Stiff to be listed, but there were three or four who could have got a vote in the WOG award including Waite, Menzel, Thomas and Gibbs. But Ellard did little enough while he was out there to cope a vote.

So WTF do we continue to play unfit players...  is supercoach and the MC completely stupid or do they dwell in an alternative reality???

Quote from: Sos01 on May 31, 2014, 08:28:47 pm

, murphys worst game I have ever seen.

I think I need to get the Foxtel man out, there is obviously something wrong with my reception.......

I bet you a lot of the early votes come from people who have either only listened to the radio and rely on the real time commentary off the AFL website or various twitter accounts for highlights. I have noticed this a lot lately, strange voting, and I reckon a lot of it is because too many past players are getting involved in the media and they do not know players from other clubs and as a result cannot call games reliably.

They get names and facts wrong all the time, add to that the various scrolling commentaries tend to highlight goals and errors.

I talked about in another thread how Dermott Brereton in a call earlier this year asked "Where did they find him?" when calling a Casboult play!

So WTF do we continue to play unfit players...  is supercoach and the MC completely stupid or do they dwell in an alternative reality???

Part of me looks at our list and understands the thought process.

You play your most experienced side, that is best able to cope with implementing "new" players.  That way by the time we need them to step up and handle a best 22 pivotal role which will see us win or lose most weeks, they are not sub 20 game 20 year olds with little experience who show us their worst version of themselves, and they are almost 50 gamers who have a sense of self, and what role they play to the team, and what they must do to ensure they are positive contributers on a weekly basis.  If the newbies are not up to it, they will not necessarily cost you a win, and likewise you will find out information about their limitations.

The problem is, our experienced team are arguably the blokes letting us down most frequently most weeks.  Not saying its the same bloke, but Gibbs gave us a pretty ordinary game on the weekend, and the previous week it was Walker.  Some weeks its been Henderson.  Waite chimed in too.  At the end of the day, the bloke who gives us a bad one might change, but whilst they are coming from that group of contributers odds are we will lose more matches than we will win.  Even with Docherty putting in a career best performance and showing his wares as a ten year player.

This same group are also amongst our least fit guys as they are constantly having a niggle.  Its better for our youngsters to learn in a better environment with cooler and experienced heads leading the way than exposing them altogether like we used to.  Unfortunately, this will take more time, but its the better way to go about it.

Some will disagree with me, but I understand it.  It should fast track their learning too.  Too many youngsters is the way we used to do things.  Lets hope that we have finally gotten to a point where we can not do that and grow faster.  It might just see us bottom out for less time rather than spending another 5 years waiting for players to come on.