Do your worse...
Carlton 13.12.90 Defeated by Hawthorn 18.10.118
Bad bad skills on show tonight. Turnovers and poor decision making will kill you week in, week out.
bottom line, we lost it they just played a long...
We were pretty good for 2 and a bit quarters, but yet again can't play a full game.
Really liked Casboult, Robbo, Juddy and Carrots tonight. I thought there were less passengers than usual for a loss. Still got a lot of work to do though.
We had our moments in the match but they just had that little bit more class especially with their disposal and kicking for goal.
Some good signs from the unexpected ones (Rowe & Casboult ...... can't believe I'm typing that ;)) but we got killed in the ruck (Warnock had no idea against Ceglar who is still in nappies) plus we were always going to struggle in defence.
Judd's return was not only terrific, it was much needed too.
Watto's miss after his mark 20m out was a turning point
Watto's miss after his mark 20m out was a turning point
That was an awful miss.
We had our moments in the match but they just had that little bit more class especially with their disposal and kicking for goal.
Some good signs from the unexpected ones (Rowe & Casboult ...... can't believe I'm typing that ;)) but we got killed in the ruck (Warnock had no idea against Ceglar who is still in nappies) plus we were always going to struggle in defence.
Judd's return was not only terrific, it was much needed too.
Warnock was poor defensively in the 4th.
I have a soft spot for the big guy but he had a shocker of a last quarter.
We would have been better giving graham a full game then we did playing Watson tonight
Watto's miss after his mark 20m out was a turning point
Watto specialises in turning points, it's just that he turns very, very slowly.
Honestly, I reckon thats our best performance for years against them.
Just needed one or two more clean ball users or runners.
Carrots is tagging pretty well, but some of his other work wasn't great. McLean slowish a few times.
Guys stopped in the last.
Bad Fitness also kills skills.
Watto's miss after his mark 20m out was a turning point
Watto specialises in turning points, it's just that he turns very, very slowly. and has a very large turning circle
If there was anyone out there who was of the opinion that Mathew Watson has a future at the club they surely would of conceded tonight they were wrong.
I feel for the guy but he just had his papers stamped tonight for good.
Surely now we can put the cue in the rack and get more kids out there till seasons end?
Thought as soon as Judd and Carrazzo stopped so did the side. Twas a good effort nonetheless. Casboult a player of the future.
I don't expect to see Watson again, another wasted high pick.
Very obvious that we haven't got the skill by a long way to match it with the best.
CH7 playing "Rock The Casbah" whilst showing Casboult's highlights.
I didn't think Watson was awful, he's ok with ball in hand and made some decent spoils. He's like White but with a good kick and decent decision making.
Carrazzo wins the Tissot 'Man Of The Match' award on CH7 ........................... rather odd choice.
I didn't think Watson was awful, he's ok with ball in hand and made some decent spoils. He's like White but with a good kick and decent decision making.
Watson was absolutely crap in the first half i think he cost us 3 goals with his mistakes add that to the goal he missed
It's gunna be a dead set heat in the "Worst on the ground" thread.
Too many not doing enough tonight, but hey should expect this as it has been going the same way for years.
Hawthorn bully us and take the ball away from us as if it was candy in our pocket.
Carrazzo and Murphy their use of the ball tonight was terrible.
Watson #dear#headlights#ohdearyoureallyareabrick. Warnock, Armfield and Touhy slow, lazy and plain awful.
An honest effort but not good enough and not fit enough.
I thought we had a lot of passengers... and lot of triers that simply don't do enough, often enough for long enough. What do you do with these blokes? For example;
Armfield... clueless... simply clueless... caught out of position ALL NIGHT. If you can't get a kick at least stop the bloke you're assigned to from getting one!
Watson... zero intensity... second half better but missed soda goal at crunch time.
Carazzo.... trier but disposal and pace issues... time to try Cachia or Curnow IMO.
MacLean... tries hard and does some strong, solid smart things... but also gets shown up for pace and position at times. Persist or cull???
Thomas, Everitt, Yarran, Menzel... elements of class but simply don't do enough. Disappointing.
Docherty... had a shocker.
Rowe... tried hard and competed solidly on one of the comp's best forwards. Something to work with.
Walker... brain fades, poor kicks and bad positioning to go with slashing runs and handy goal.
Warnock.... unless a ruckman is giving you first use consistently why play him? Ceglar and his mates far more effective than knockers. Started getting frustrated in the last.
Graham... I know it's hard when you're sub but where's the hurt factor? Still plays kiddie football.
Channel 7 gave Carazzo BOG tonight... not the game I was watching.
Mate some of you guys are hard markers I'll tell you what. Carrazzo made an awful error with that handball, late in the game, when he had nothing left in the tank and was sold into trouble by Yarran. Other than the last 10 or so minutes when he was spent he was easily one of our best. 32 touches and 5 tackles says it all.
An honest effort but not good enough and not fit enough.
I thought we had a lot of passengers... and lot of triers that simply don't do enough, often enough for long enough. What do you do with these blokes? For example;
Armfield... clueless... simply clueless... caught out of position ALL NIGHT. If you can't get a kick at least stop the bloke you're assigned to from getting one!
Watson... zero intensity... second half better but missed soda goal at crunch time.
Carazzo.... trier but disposal and pace issues... time to try Cachia or Curnow IMO.[/color
MacLean... tries hard and does some strong, solid smart things... but also gets shown up for pace and position at times. Persist or cull???
Thomas, Everitt, Yarran, Menzel... elements of class but simply don't do enough. Disappointing.
Docherty... had a shocker.
Rowe... tried hard and competed solidly on one of the comp's best forwards. Something to work with.
Walker... brain fades, poor kicks and bad positioning to go with slashing runs and handy goal.
Warnock.... unless a ruckman is giving you first use consistently why play him? Ceglar and his mates far more effective than knockers. Started getting frustrated in the last.
Graham... I know it's hard when you're sub but where's the hurt factor? Still plays kiddie football.
Channel 7 gave Carazzo BOG tonight... not the game I was watching.
what could we get in a trade for either carazzo or Mclean
It was actually an even game, they did more with it when they had the chance. We just make hard work of everything.
I didn't think Watson was awful, he's ok with ball in hand and made some decent spoils. He's like White but with a good kick and decent decision making.
He was a liability. Good decision maker? What about the scrubber he kicked in the first that led to a goal. He can barely move, is always behind his man and has no awareness around him. Luke Livingstone was only marginally worse.
^^ Salary cap space.
Carrazzo was our best player. The clanger was horrific and sealed the game but he was our best.
Watson was garbage. Delist.
I didn't think Watson was awful, he's ok with ball in hand and made some decent spoils. He's like White but with a good kick and decent decision making.
He was a liability. Good decision maker? What about the scrubber he kicked in the first that led to a goal. He can barely move, is always behind his man and has no awareness around him. Luke Livingstone was only marginally worse.
Yep I remember the scrubber, but I also remember 4-5 times where the ball was in his hands coming out of defence and he picked the right option and hit the target. He made plenty of spoils on the night.
Carrazzo was our best player. The clanger was horrific and sealed the game but he was our best.
Sadly Chris Judd was our best player tonight were going to miss him when he hangs the boots up
PII2C... watch the tape... so many slow, high, loopy kicks to contests that we invariably lost. Dreadful from a senior player who should know better. I counted at least 8 of them. Plus an awful F50 at a blokes feet, plus the sloppy handball.
If you kick short you kick it hard flat and fast you don't lob it on a spot and invite a bloke to come in and kill the marking attempt.
I didn't think Watson was awful, he's ok with ball in hand and made some decent spoils. He's like White but with a good kick and decent decision making.
He was a liability. Good decision maker? What about the scrubber he kicked in the first that led to a goal. He can barely move, is always behind his man and has no awareness around him. Luke Livingstone was only marginally worse.
It was his first game back in 3 months against the 2nd best team in the comp.
He needs to be persisted with.
Yes Carrots has always been able to find the ball, it is a pity his general disposal after all these years is still terrible.
But he is not alone.
It'll be interesting to see how MM wields the broom at seasons end.
Subbing Watto out turned the game against us. :P
Solid to good games from all our important players. Gibbs, Murphy, Judd, Carrots (even when the last two ran out of gas) Our forwards marking everything and Rowe on top of Roughhead, no coach and we still come up short. I wonder if we'll ever beat this side?
It was good to see clean ball handling from Judd again and I think we''re moving to a better game style for pur group after being all at sea for 18 months. We're still lazy without the ball and don't have the resolve to stop our opponents dictating terms but we're getting better.
Yes Carrots has always been able to find the ball, it is a pity his general disposal after all these years is still terrible.
But he is not alone.
It'll be interesting to see how MM wields the broom at seasons end.
(http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/236x/63/9c/94/639c945b22d7c53eaf7f7fbfabb828b8.jpg)
There's a disturbing image.
Unfortunately Lance Watson served up what we've seen before... and I've seen enough.
Pity our spud of a "list manager" didn't bother to put a couple more project tall players on the rookie list because I'd be trying them next week if Jammo doesn't come up.
IOT: I think we''re moving to a better game style for our group after being all at sea for 18 months. We're still lazy without the ball and don't have the resolve to stop our opponents dictating terms but we're getting better.
Agreed.... we put zero pressure on the ball carrier and the ball leaves our forward half far too easily.
Really? 1 and 2 clangers respectively. Carrots 81.3% disp eft, Murph 75%. Hardly terrible.
It is a shame Lachie and Jamo aren't in form and playing as I reckon it would have been the difference.
With that said, I don't know why we are losing games?
From a superior teacher (Dawks), tonight we learned about ourselves...
Cattle - ordinary but with some excellence (Yazz) & potential (Meat?).
Ruthless & smart on-field leadership - way below average. Perhaps none. No-one stands up. No authority on the field - none.
But very concerning - we have poor depth. Dawks are down on personnel, as are we, but the kids they bring in know what to do. Why? Because they were recruited for such understanding. Our recruiting has failed grandly in this respect.
Armfield
Watson
Carazzo
MacLean
Warnock
There's five right there who played tonight who have be shipped out if we are to ever improve.
Subbing Watto out turned the game against us. :P
Solid to good games from all our important players. Gibbs, Murphy, Judd, Carrots (even when the last two ran out of gas) Our forwards marking everything and Rowe on top of Roughhead, no coach and we still come up short. I wonder if we'll ever beat this side?
It was good to see clean ball handling from Judd again and I think we''re moving to a better game style for pur group after being all at sea for 18 months. We're still lazy without the ball and don't have the resolve to stop our opponents dictating terms but we're getting better.
I'm not that upset.
Is no Jamo, Henderson, Buckley, Curnow and a 2/3's fit Daisy, Judd, Carrots and Docherty as bad as Lake and whoever else they had out.
If this game had been at the little dome we would have been a massive chance?.
Take out Watsons first quarter and we were good at both ends of the ground.
WE NEED MIDS A BALL CARRIERS WITH POISE.
I don't know why we are losing games?
Our score is less than theirs. Sorry, couldn't resist.
I don't know why we are losing games?
Our score is less than theirs. Sorry, couldn't resist.
Yes, but the alternative score board....
We lost to a Hawthorn reserves backline.....Litherland, Spangher, Cheney.....very ordinary effort IMO given Hawthorn were at its weakest for years.
Watson...ludicrous performance down back and you can forget trading him he is delist material..
Armfield....gone.....
Brock....too slow and doesnt hurt teams enough
Warnock ...towelled up by Ceglar who is backup to the backup ruckman.....enough of this numptie who cannot do more than tap the ball...
Judd...still a great player..great contested efforts
Rowe.....you win the most improved player...
Casboult....took marks and kicked straight...pity we had to ruck you because that stiff Warnock ran out of gas after half time..
Doherty...been watchng Jeff Garlett...had the handbrake on when he should have gone for the ball...didnt enjoy the physical Hawks players...
Gibbs...not bad
Murphy...just went
Touhy..did his job on Bruest..
Carrazzo ...good on Lewis but one shocker turnover...
Walker....wanst that impressed with him
Everitt ok on Smith but the latter worked his way into the game and hurt us late....
Waite...some good, some ordinary but not too bad..
Graham...a few cheap kicks but doesnt hurt teams
Menzel...showed some class and would be a Wingard in a better team.
White..workmanlike
Simpson ...brave as usual but a no impact game
Mate some of you guys are hard markers I'll tell you what. Carrazzo made an awful error with that handball, late in the game, when he had nothing left in the tank and was sold into trouble by Yarran. Other than the last 10 or so minutes when he was spent he was easily one of our best. 32 touches and 5 tackles says it all.
Did you attend the game PI2C?
Subbing Watto out turned the game against us. :P
So comedy is your specialty. I love comedy. Where is your next gig?
Subbing Watto out turned the game against us. :P
So comedy is your specialty. I love comedy. Where is your next gig?
We were in front the last time he had the ball
sound logic from LLT.
PII2C... watch the tape... so many slow, high, loopy kicks to contests that we invariably lost. Dreadful from a senior player who should know better. I counted at least 8 of them. Plus an awful F50 at a blokes feet, plus the sloppy handball.
If you kick short you kick it hard flat and fast you don't lob it on a spot and invite a bloke to come in and kill the marking attempt.
Absolutely spot on Professer E. Though it wouldn't be picked up by those watching the game on TV, Carrazzo takes an eternity to dispose of the ball & in doing so, has rendered some good options upfield as utterly useless by the time he gets to making a decision to kick the damn thing & even then, as you correctly said, his kicks are high & loopy = totally ineffective.
I'll take Curnow over Carrazzo anyday of the week.
Subbing Watto out turned the game against us. :P
So comedy is your specialty. I love comedy. Where is your next gig?
It's at the Comedy Club. I'll be there on a Thursday night, you should come down they've been asking when you're going to come get your credibility back ;)
Subbing Watto out turned the game against us. :P
So comedy is your specialty. I love comedy. Where is your next gig?
It's at the Comedy Club. I'll be there on a Thursday night, you should come down they've been asking when you're going to come get your credibility back ;)
I always saw you as the guy who mopped up after the bubble bath show at Kittens at Frankston?
always gets a cheer ;D
i'm a Carrazzo fan and thought he was ok but that turnover will be highlighted and I would expect him to come under pressure to keep his spot on the list.
There is going to be big changes now we are gone for the season and the coach is now fighting for his long term survival...
If Mick misses the eight next season he is gone and I dont expect him to be very forgiving on players who cost him games or who he thinks are past it....
Watson should never play in a Carlton jumper again.
Id rather play anybody else ahead of him.
Both his AFL games this year have been pathetic!!!
Watson should never play in a Carlton jumper again.
Id rather play anybody else ahead of him.
Both his AFL games this year have been pathetic!!!
He was that bad it very embarrassing for the kid and his confidence looked shot...just no compousre when he got the ball and it was like a live grenade in his hands.
Bit sad seeing him play like that and I think that will be his last game for the club....
Should we target someone like Spangher during trade period? He's not in the Hawks best back 6 but he'd add plenty to ours...imo ;)
Should we target someone like Spangher during trade period? He's not in the Hawks best back 6 but he'd add plenty to ours...imo ;)
[flash=600,400]http://www.youtube.com/v/Eal4fep7pK4[/flash]
Should we target someone like Spangher during trade period? He's not in the Hawks best back 6 but he'd add plenty to ours...imo ;)
No.....Casboult had his measure in the 1st half but we needed the bolt to ruck due to Warnock's tank running dry........Spangher is ok backup material but
not as a regular senior player..as I said Spangher,Litherland and Cheney is their reserves lineup....Lake, Gibson and Stratton being their regular starters.
We should have done better vs such a weak defense....you add a kid like Duryea and its very light on for experience but still we couldnt kick enough goals.
PII2C... watch the tape... so many slow, high, loopy kicks to contests that we invariably lost. Dreadful from a senior player who should know better. I counted at least 8 of them. Plus an awful F50 at a blokes feet, plus the sloppy handball.
If you kick short you kick it hard flat and fast you don't lob it on a spot and invite a bloke to come in and kill the marking attempt.
Absolutely spot on Professer E. Though it wouldn't be picked up by those watching the game on TV, Carrazzo takes an eternity to dispose of the ball & in doing so, has rendered some good options upfield as utterly useless by the time he gets to making a decision to kick the damn thing & even then, as you correctly said, his kicks are high & loopy = totally ineffective.
I'll take Curnow over Carrazzo anyday of the week.
But he won the Watch as BOG on 7 tonight....wtf....I hated that handball to the Hawk bloke..just killed us...has been a serial butcher at the Blues over the journey, plenty of ticker though.... :(
We have so many holes it's not funny... at least three big, dependable players along the spine, an effective ruckman, and at least 4 gut running mids who can dispose of the ball correctly and make good decisions. Oh, and two quality ball distributing half backs would be handy as well.
As other's have pointed out, the bottom end of the Hawk's list is so superior to the tail end of our list .... in reality the back end of our list is barely VFL standard let alone able to match the likes of Hawthorn.
Living proof that the channel 7 commentary team have zero idea.
Watson was bad, but it was his first run since Rd 1... he is a long way off the pace.
Rowe has also been a liability at times this year, but given time he has got better and better.
Living proof that the channel 7 commentary team have zero idea.
Bruce LOVES hawthorn.
It was very annoying
If Watson could move any slower, he would be moonwalking...
Bwuce should stick to calling the gee gees after that effort.
Watson was bad, but it was his first run since Rd 1... he is a long way off the pace.
Rowe has also been a liability at times this year, but given time he has got better and better.
Two extremes Bear......Rowe is most improved and Watson is most dissapointing...the latter looks shot confidence wise and was so bad I think supporters felt sorry for him when usually they
would be giving him a real roast and calling for his oversized head....
Its been a long season full of pain, that just doesn't get any better. GWS and the Pies next. Will we be 5 and 9 or 4 and 10 by the end of the next 2 games. ???
They gave Carrots BOG?
WTF????????
I mean really, WTAF??????
I don't know why I'm confused I mean Harley actually said that the Waite tackle wasn't holding the ball because he(the Hawks player) bounced it amd technically wasn't in possession..
IS THAT OR IS THAT NOT THE WORST PIECE OF COMMENTARY IN THE HISTORY OF MANKIND???
Have not won in the heritage jumper. Next time is bummers in round 23. Lets hope we can get 1 of 3. Probably not.
We lost to a Hawthorn reserves backline.....Litherland, Spangher, Cheney.....very ordinary effort IMO given Hawthorn were at its weakest for years.
Watson...ludicrous performance down back and you can forget trading him he is delist material.. So, so very true.
Armfield....gone..... looking that way
Brock....too slow and doesnt hurt teams enough Yes, but who takes his place?
Warnock ...towelled up by Ceglar who is backup to the backup ruckman.....enough of this numptie who cannot do more than tap the ball... has good trade value
Judd...still a great player..great contested efforts.... I pray he plays on
Rowe.....you win the most improved player... keep
Casboult....took marks and kicked straight...pity we had to ruck you because that stiff Warnock ran out of gas after half time... keep
Doherty...been watchng Jeff Garlett...had the handbrake on when he should have gone for the ball...didnt enjoy the physical Hawks players... this will be a focus in his off-season learning - don't fear hurt.
Gibbs...not bad
Murphy...just went - learn about ruthlessness in the upcoming off-season
Touhy..did his job on Bruest.. he must, must add more to his game
Carrazzo ...good on Lewis but one shocker turnover... sorry, but hang up the boots
Walker....wanst that impressed with him - with better blokes around him will fulfill his role. A better swing man than many realise.
Everitt ok on Smith but the latter worked his way into the game and hurt us late.... Everitt is not quite as good as we may think. However, he is good, very good but needs to be given the challenge to use his offensive abilities/hurts better.
Waite...some good, some ordinary but not too bad.. No more excuses.
Graham...a few cheap kicks but doesnt hurt teams... what do you expect, Stevens loves and recommended him
Menzel...showed some lass and would be a Wingard in a better team - agree
White..workmanlike - agree
Simpson ...brave as usual but a no impact game - agree
They gave Carrots BOG?
WTF????????
I mean really, WTAF??????
I don't know why I'm confused I mean Harley actually said that the Waite tackle wasn't holding the ball because he(the Hawks player) bounced it amd technically wasn't in possession..
IS THAT OR IS THAT NOT THE WORST PIECE OF COMMENTARY IN THE HISTORY OF MANKIND???
I thought when you bounced the ball you were still considered in possession...I didnt know the Kevin Bartlett rule had been invoked again....
They gave Carrots BOG?
WTF????????
I mean really, WTAF??????
I don't know why I'm confused I mean Harley actually said that the Waite tackle wasn't holding the ball because he(the Hawks player) bounced it amd technically wasn't in possession..
IS THAT OR IS THAT NOT THE WORST PIECE OF COMMENTARY IN THE HISTORY OF MANKIND???
Only Geelong are allowed to beat the hawks
They gave Carrots BOG?
WTF????????
I mean really, WTAF??????
I don't know why I'm confused I mean Harley actually said that the Waite tackle wasn't holding the ball because he(the Hawks player) bounced it amd technically wasn't in possession..
IS THAT OR IS THAT NOT THE WORST PIECE OF COMMENTARY IN THE HISTORY OF MANKIND???
I thought when you bounced the ball your were still considered in possession...I didnt know the Kevin Bartlett rule had been invoked again....
Seriously EB, my head almost blew clean off my shoulders when he said that.
He is retarded.
They gave Carrots BOG?
WTF????????
I mean really, WTAF??????
I don't know why I'm confused I mean Harley actually said that the Waite tackle wasn't holding the ball because he(the Hawks player) bounced it amd technically wasn't in possession..
IS THAT OR IS THAT NOT THE WORST PIECE OF COMMENTARY IN THE HISTORY OF MANKIND???
I thought when you bounced the ball your were still considered in possession...I didnt know the Kevin Bartlett rule had been invoked again....
The last player to get away with that on this ground was KB in 1980... AND THEY CHANGED THE FARKING RULES.
That was one of the poorest displays by a player I have ever seen. Watson should never be allowed to wear the Carlton guernsey ever again. That miss cost us the game.
I said to a friend as soon as he missed it that we may as well turn off the TV, it was game over.
I'm hatin' Watson so much right now. Just killed the momentum we had. We were all over them and from that point forward it sapped the confidence from the group.
All I can say is you f&*kin' ar5ehole Watson. Get the f^&k out of my club. F&*kin' hack!
Same old story when it come to crucial shots at goal. Waite, Gibbs, Watson etc have just got to nail them.
Speaking of Watson, what a liability. He's killing us. McLean is junk. Just treads water and that's it.
Happy with Murph, Gibbs, Casboult, Judd games.
But the usual overall haphazard effort. Tired of it.
I switched off after Brock kicked it into a Hawks player in the middle when we we steaming forward. Seriously the game has gone past him. Absolutely crapmyself everything it goes near him. He has no follow up due to lack of pace.
Judd's presence, it's fair to say, may have won us as much as 3 of the games we've lost this year. he's not the captain in title but no mistake, when he's on the ground, he's the captain of the side.
Judd's presence, it's fair to say, may have won us as much as 3 of the games we've lost this year. he's not the captain in title but no mistake, when he's on the ground, he's the captain of the side.
Maybe, but we were playing absolute puss.
All I can say is you f&*kin' ar5ehole Watson. Get the f^&k out of my club. F&*kin' hack!
Perfectly put.
Seriously, f*ck off you fat headed waste of space!
Slow, awareness is woeful and for someone who apparently has a good kick on him he's not very precise. Big kick maybe but good? nope, sh*t house.
On a positive note, Sammy Rowe playing down back. I'm enjoying a big slice of humble pie right about now because I thought this was another experiment that won't pay off. Good on ya Sammy, you've really come a long way!
Hawthorn kicked 8 of the last 10 goals in the match, fairly telling stat.
Judd's presence, it's fair to say, may have won us as much as 3 of the games we've lost this year. he's not the captain in title but no mistake, when he's on the ground, he's the captain of the side.
Maybe, but we were playing absolute puss.
Yep true. :(
Watson can't be defended with the "But he hasn't played since round 1" excuse. 'cos he was just as bad in round 1. Papers stamped, it's all over for Matthew.
Warnock's last quarter was disgraceful btw....it's not like he was sprinting down the wings all game. Fancy running out of puff when he hardly runs in the first place. As EB1 said, Levi having to cover for Warnock in the ruck really hurt us.
Pretty sure Simmo was on Brad Hill for a lot of the first half & got slaughtered.
Amazing how 2 of our more maligned shots for goal in Robbo & Levi kicked 7 straight between them, whilst 3 of our better kicks in Docherty, Menzel & Watson all miss deadset sodas. Based on tonight's result, I'd say the Robbo as a permanent/semi-permanent forward worked a treat.
How good is Chris Judd.....yet again. Thought Murphy had a sloppy stinker of a game. He worked hard, but generally, he was poison with ball in his hands.
Hats of to Sam Rowe, who I thought was easily one of our best. With confidence, his composure has improved out of sight. He now picks the right occasion to either mark or spoil, his kicking is pretty sound & he's a really impressive physical competitor.
Really, apart from about 45 mins of football, Hawthorn dealt with us rather soundly....*sigh*. The rest of this season is gonna suck......I'm not looking forward to the pain.....
PII2C... watch the tape... so many slow, high, loopy kicks to contests that we invariably lost. Dreadful from a senior player who should know better. I counted at least 8 of them. Plus an awful F50 at a blokes feet, plus the sloppy handball.
If you kick short you kick it hard flat and fast you don't lob it on a spot and invite a bloke to come in and kill the marking attempt.
Absolutely spot on Professer E. Though it wouldn't be picked up by those watching the game on TV, Carrazzo takes an eternity to dispose of the ball & in doing so, has rendered some good options upfield as utterly useless by the time he gets to making a decision to kick the damn thing & even then, as you correctly said, his kicks are high & loopy = totally ineffective.
I'll take Curnow over Carrazzo anyday of the week.
Mate did not attend the game but I'll guarantee you we lose by a lot more without Carrazzo in the side. 32 touches both inside and out with 80+ % efficiency and 1 clanger. 9 score involvements has him with equal most on ground as well as 15 pressure acts, up there with the best. You guys see that one error and judge his game on it, delusion is not a strong enough word, he held us together last night. If 7-8 of his kicks were looping and slow that leaves 24 great disposals, better than average across the AFL.
You look at someone like Baggers that says we can't play blokes like Graham because they're not ready and would ruin the club's culture but then wants Carrazzo to hang up the boots. I have never heard of someone being told to hang up the boots after 32 touches and a host of other stats like that, pretty much BOG. Just a stupid comment.
I don't think some of you really know what you want, but on that performance, Carrazzo is light years ahead of most of our list.
Watson can't be defended with the "But he hasn't played since round 1" excuse. 'cos he was just as bad in round 1. Papers stamped, it's all over for Matthew.
Warnock's last quarter was disgraceful btw....it's not like he was sprinting down the wings all game. Fancy running out of puff when he hardly runs in the first place. As EB1 said, Levi having to cover for Warnock in the ruck really hurt us.
Pretty sure Simmo was on Brad Hill for a lot of the first half & got slaughtered.
Amazing how 2 of our more maligned shots for goal in Robbo & Levi kicked 7 straight between them, whilst 3 of our better kicks in Docherty, Menzel & Watson all miss deadset sodas. Based on tonight's result, I'd say the Robbo as a permanent/semi-permanent forward worked a treat.
How good is Chris Judd.....yet again. Thought Murphy had a sloppy stinker of a game. He worked hard, but generally, he was poison with ball in his hands.
Hats of to Sam Rowe, who I thought was easily one of our best. With confidence, his composure has improved out of sight. He now picks the right occasion to either mark or spoil, his kicking is pretty sound & he's a really impressive physical competitor.
Really, apart from about 45 mins of football, Hawthorn dealt with us rather soundly....*sigh*. The rest of this season is gonna suck......I'm not looking forward to the pain.....
I really thought we lost the game rather than the Hawks winning it. Too, too many cheap, basic coock ups...... amateur hour by way too many of our lads, Captain Murphy included. How many goals did we gift them and then miss at the other end too? A dozen odd?
Were way too slow to move the ball too - again.l Why..... I haVE NO IDEA.......you don't beat a good side playing that style of game.
Judd, Rowe, Levi, Robbo excellent - the rest - soft. Again.
Hendo/Jamo even on one leg would have offered more than Watson.
Difference between defending someone and not hanging them... The reality is that if you pull a guy out of the 2nds mid season he might struggle. Another reality is that players can settle in to a position and grow in confidence if given time.
The boys certainly worked hard, but just can't do anything (apart from that first goal) with any ease or efficiency. Everything seems slow and labored. And the class difference clearly showed. Won the CP, won the tackles, double the inside 50 marks, just can't kick those clutch goals, which the better teams can.
My thoughts on a few players :
Rowe : thought he did pretty well given the class difference between him and Roughy.
2E - a bit scratchy, but form is improving.
White - barely sighted
Simmo - ok, but not brilliant
Gibbs - 15 contested possessions (more than any other player), kicked a goal, can still skirt the packs with the best of them, and looks fabulous. The kid can do it all. Good game.
Murph - he gives up a fair bit in weight and size on his opponents, and gets whacked behind the umpires back week in week out. A grade effort, but disposal was a bit off last night.
Carrots - never been the best disposer of the footy, but his value doesn't rest solely on that. We are a better team with him there. A terrific tagger and I thought he had a very good game.
Judd - great comeback game, and seeing a bit of speed in those legs was a real treat. Don't know what we'll do when he retires. The look on his face walking off at games end was tragic.
206 - not great tonight.
Brock - seems to be struggling at the moment - I can't work out where he fits in or what Mick wants him to do. Seems all at sea.
1AW - speaking of all at sea, what's up with Walks ? DOA, if you're around, give us some insight.
Menzel - very good game apart from the missed goal. After a recent drought in sales for the No2 guernsey, reckon the manufacturers will have to ready themselves for a sales spike. Can see him being very popular with the kiddies.
Watto - I feel sorry for him. Thought he got better as the game went on.
Yazz - unsighted - thought we got the "lazy Yazz" tonight, apart from a couple of tackles.
Docherty - meh
Everitt - still not seeing the love for this guy. Average for mine.
If someone had said at the start of the year that when we play the premiers Casboult will kick 4 and we'll line Rowe up on Roughead you would have had them locked up as a loon.
Both players are growing in confidence and look like they belong.
I'm particularly impressed by Rowe. He was clearly outpointed by Hawkins last week but kept persisting and did some good things in the second half of the Geelong game.
It was a clear contrast to poor Watson who just completely lost confidence after some early mistakes last night.
Watson's problem is that he's just too slow at that level..... Not just in his body movements but also in his thinking. He just doesn't do the instinctive things, and when he does act quickly he usually makes a mess of it.
You can never be satisfied or happy after a loss.
....but I'm not too disappointed.
They had some players out, but we also had some out.
When we were 0-4 a lot of us were complaining about not seeing any improvement
Well over the last couple of weeks I think we are starting to see a few signs.
What we do have is a large number of players who are still underdone in terms of fitness.
...and that can only mean better performances ahead as that situation improves.
Rowes form since going back, is similar to Henderson when he was shifted to back line. Rapid rise in form .
I'm particularly impressed by Rowe. He was clearly outpointed by Hawkins last week but kept persisting and did some good things in the second half of the Geelong game.
Rowe was fantastic, he just dropped a few marks he worked really hard to get into the right position to take but overall easily in our best.
When we were 0-4 a lot of us were complaining about not seeing any improvement
Well over the last couple of weeks I think we are starting to see a few signs.
Agree again, pity we dropped the games we should have won and performances like this one would mean a lot more. Only concerning thing is that Judd and Carrazzo (along with a few others), soon to hang up the boots, pretty much ran the game for us.
I'll see the positives in Bolts form, after he re-sign on at a fair price.
Quick mention to Graham, came on as sub, 6 possessions, 5 pressure acts and 2 score involvements at 83% efficiency. Who said he couldn't kick? Persist please.
If he puts on some bulk he could take over from Brock who is definitely gone in my mind.
Hawthorn reserves beat carlton
We are so way off the leaders of the afl its not funny
Thanks for your great presidency sticks.....
It looks like the effort is there from most players but we continue to play like we don't deserve to beat the better sides. There is improvement from some and Casboult and Rowe are good examples.
Our A graders are not AFL A graders, same as our B graders. At some point we need to accept that Murphy and Simpson are not elite. As for Walker, McLean, Carazzo, Touhy, & Waite, these guys will not take us to the promised land.
We need elite skills and strength, not weak bodies that get pushed out of contests.
Raw stats mean squat. Graham had meaningless possessions and I doubt Carazzo had a truly effective stat in the second half.... Sure it may have been effective according to a statisician but in reality they weren't. Watch the game.
Raw stats mean squat. Graham had meaningless possessions and I doubt Carazzo had a truly effective stat in the second half.... Sure it may have been effective according to a statisician but in reality they weren't. Watch the game.
I'm staggered he got a award.
Raw stats mean squat. Graham had meaningless possessions and I doubt Carazzo had a truly effective stat in the second half.... Sure it may have been effective according to a statisician but in reality they weren't. Watch the game.
I'm staggered he got a award.
Didnt he smash Lewis and get a heap of the ball?
Carrazzo was very good last night. Not sure why he's copping it TBH.
Carrazzo was very good last night. Not sure why he's copping it TBH.
I think he was adequate, i wouldn't say he was very good. He didn't really have a huge impact on the game, apart from that turnover which worked against him.
He was far from alone, but getting BOG from both sides according to Ch 7 is a complete joke.
Carrazzo was very good last night. Not sure why he's copping it TBH.
I think he was adequate, i wouldn't say he was very good. He didn't really have a huge impact on the game, apart from that turnover which worked against him.
He was far from alone, but getting BOG from both sides according to Ch 7 is a complete joke.
Yeah, I don't agree that he was BOG. But I thought he tipped the scales to the v.good because his defensive game dramatically reduced his opponent's influence. While he may not have had a huge impact offensively, he still managed to get plenty of it, and use it well.
I was at the game and the consensus was that Carrazzo was best on ground.
Armfield
Watson
Carazzo
MacLean
Warnock
There's five right there who played tonight who have be shipped out if we are to ever improve.
Agreed.
I was at the game and the consensus was that Carrazzo was best on ground.
Not from where i sat.
Raw stats mean squat. Graham had meaningless possessions and I doubt Carazzo had a truly effective stat in the second half.... Sure it may have been effective according to a statisician but in reality they weren't. Watch the game.
I did watch the game I thought he was excellent. One of the few players we have capable of a creative handball in traffic. And he negated Lewis. Both he and Judd were the reason we were in it for so long.
Carrazzo was very good last night. Not sure why he's copping it TBH.
I think he was adequate, i wouldn't say he was very good. He didn't really have a huge impact on the game, apart from that turnover which worked against him.
He was far from alone, but getting BOG from both sides according to Ch 7 is a complete joke.
Yeah, I don't agree that he was BOG. But I thought he tipped the scales to the v.good because his defensive game dramatically reduced his opponent's influence. While he may not have had a huge impact offensively, he still managed to get plenty of it, and use it well.
It's the Carrazzo factor. He makes one error, late in the game when it's all over and everyone's frustrated and that's what they remember.
Carrazzo was far from our worst, did the job on Lewis and had plenty of it but he's never really going to do much damage, his kicking has always been up and under like Mil Hanna and it lacks penetration, if his handballs are missing targets as well his effectiveness really suffers.
No goals from any of our midfielders which has been a recurring theme at Carlton for a decade, basically Hwathorn just too polished and efficient with the ball, our constant skill errors continue to haunt us and cost us matches.
It's the Carrazzo factor. He makes one error, late in the game when it's all over and everyone's frustrated and that's what they remember.
No, i just don't remember thinking too often, if ever, going, "wow, that was great by carrazzo." Casboult, Robinson, Judd, Rowe....all had those moments.
Without the error, i think he was certainly adequate, but clearly BOG? Forget about it.
If carrots wasn't there and we played Graham in a similar role, we'd probably have a similar outcome. Plenty of the ball, no obvious impact on the game.
Defensively he did a good job, but so did Rowe.
I personally thought he played well. Any doubts are probably more to do with fact that the end is closer than we would have liked. He's had the last 2 years robbed by injury
It's the Carrazzo factor. He makes one error, late in the game when it's all over and everyone's frustrated and that's what they remember.
No, i just don't remember thinking too often, if ever, going, "wow, that was great by carrazzo." Casboult, Robinson, Judd, Rowe....all had those moments.
Without the error, i think he was certainly adequate, but clearly BOG? Forget about it.
If carrots wasn't there and we played Graham in a similar role, we'd probably have a similar outcome. Plenty of the ball, no obvious impact on the game.
Defensively he did a good job, but so did Rowe.
I thought he clearly had an impact in the game offensively, anyone that has 9 score involvements (most for the game) is impacting the game offensively. That means that over a quarter of his disposals resulted in shots at goal down the track.
Wasn't last night a reminder of what Wayne Hughes has done to this football club over the last decade?
Hawthorn Players:
- Sublime skills
- Quick by hand and foot
- Decisive
- Flexible (multiple positions)
- One touch players (no fumbling)
- Fit and pacy
- Run and spread for days
Carlton Players:
- Too many plodders
- Slow by hand and foot
- Indecisive
- Poorly skilled
- Slow and lack of spread
- Fumblers
Make no mistake MM coached well last night. There's only so much he can do with this list. We essentially won that game last week against a very good side and we managed to make a contest with an elite outfit last night. I'm confident that with a restructure of the list MM can take us to the top.
Hawthorn players looked much quicker than us tonight and their skills are something to behold. Mclean looked like an old man in comparison. Breust, Puopolo, Hill, Smith, Riolo, all rotate through the middle and they are all quick and skillful. Get with the times Carlton - we need to draft for this.
Roughead even played in the middle last night alongside Ceglar and won clearances LOL
Anyway, last night was not the end of the world. It just showed where our list is at more than anything. We need a complete restructuring of the recruitment department and some astute trading then good things might come and sooner than you might think.
Toddy
It's the Carrazzo factor. He makes one error, late in the game when it's all over and everyone's frustrated and that's what they remember.
No, i just don't remember thinking too often, if ever, going, "wow, that was great by carrazzo." Casboult, Robinson, Judd, Rowe....all had those moments.
Without the error, i think he was certainly adequate, but clearly BOG? Forget about it.
If carrots wasn't there and we played Graham in a similar role, we'd probably have a similar outcome. Plenty of the ball, no obvious impact on the game.
Defensively he did a good job, but so did Rowe.
I thought he clearly had an impact in the game offensively, anyone that has 9 score involvements (most for the game) is impacting the game offensively. That means that over a quarter of his disposals resulted in shots at goal down the track.
But was his part in them instrumental or was he simply a link man? I honestly didn't notice anything that really stood out to me.
PII2C... watch the tape... so many slow, high, loopy kicks to contests that we invariably lost. Dreadful from a senior player who should know better. I counted at least 8 of them. Plus an awful F50 at a blokes feet, plus the sloppy handball.
If you kick short you kick it hard flat and fast you don't lob it on a spot and invite a bloke to come in and kill the marking attempt.
Absolutely spot on Professer E. Though it wouldn't be picked up by those watching the game on TV, Carrazzo takes an eternity to dispose of the ball & in doing so, has rendered some good options upfield as utterly useless by the time he gets to making a decision to kick the damn thing & even then, as you correctly said, his kicks are high & loopy = totally ineffective.
I'll take Curnow over Carrazzo anyday of the week.
Mate did not attend the game but I'll guarantee you we lose by a lot more without Carrazzo in the side. 32 touches both inside and out with 80+ % efficiency and 1 clanger. 9 score involvements has him with equal most on ground as well as 15 pressure acts, up there with the best. You guys see that one error and judge his game on it, delusion is not a strong enough word, he held us together last night. If 7-8 of his kicks were looping and slow that leaves 24 great disposals, better than average across the AFL.
You look at someone like Baggers that says we can't play blokes like Graham because they're not ready and would ruin the club's culture but then wants Carrazzo to hang up the boots. I have never heard of someone being told to hang up the boots after 32 touches and a host of other stats like that, pretty much BOG. Just a stupid comment.
I don't think some of you really know what you want, but on that performance, Carrazzo is light years ahead of most of our list.
Just to be clear a handball that hits the target, which is another Carlton player about to be tackled is counted as effective. Carrazzo slowed the play time after time last night and sold players into terrible positions, particularly by hand.
If a few times is time after time in your eyes so be it. Just so we're clear, time after time would account for how many of his disposals? 19%? I remember the moment you are talking about, it happened once. He also wheeled onto his left and kicked a scrubber early in the game and that awful handball late as we've talked about. But most of the time, he took the right option and hit the target. Like I said, some of you only see what you want to see with this bloke.
@kruddler
There were no standout plays or big moments that I could remember but he was fantastic in close with his handballs, that's what stood out to me. He ran hard all night to provide an option when we got the ball and managed to rack up 32 touches doing so. 25 uncontested so that's 25 times he got to the right position to receive and around 80% of the time his disposal was effective and quite a few of them went on to be goals. It was a typical Carrazzo game and he was back somewhere close to the player we used to have other than his fitness which affected him in the end.
Hawthorn players looked much quicker than us tonight and their skills are something to behold. Mclean looked like an old man in comparison. Breust, Puopolo, Hill, Smith, Riolo, all rotate through the middle and they are all quick and skillful. Get with the times Carlton - we need to draft for this.
Everyone who watched the game would have noticed the same thing, but a lot of it comes from confidence.
Hawthorn has been thereabouts since they finished 5th in 2007 and they've won couple of flags since, the players expect success.
They expect to hit targets, they expect to nail all of their set shots and they expect to kick most of the difficult ones as well, Suckling drifted forward for a couple last night and he didn't look like missing, young players called on to play in the senior team are expecte to perform at their best, it's all a part of a winning culture that feeds on itself and leads to more wins and self belief.
You won't hear Hawthorn supporters saying that this bloke or that "wasn't too bad", or that he "did a couple of nice things", they simply don't accept players who can't execute basic skills.
Carlton players are used to mediocrity, I'm not saying they don't aspire to better but it's a hard cycle to break, Murphy is one of the elite players in the competition and hasn't played in a team that's gone into the third week of a finals series, at least sub consciously he probably doesn't expect to beat the best teams.
Malthouse's biggest challenge is to instil self belief in all our players, not only our best half a dozen.
What's stood out most, apart from their skill under pressure, was that even their tall blokes seemed to have speed.
Must say, was impressed with their coach In the presser.
I thought the Blues were good.
Pleased with Rowe's efforts and Casboult has stepped up a big notch. We always knew he could clunk, but he is playing like a powerful big man,on the ground, in the packs.
One has to hand it to MickM.
He is doing a great job!
Raw stats mean squat. Graham had meaningless possessions and I doubt Carazzo had a truly effective stat in the second half.... Sure it may have been effective according to a statisician but in reality they weren't. Watch the game.
On fire Professer E - loving your work.....
Carrazzo was very good last night. Not sure why he's copping it TBH.
I think he was adequate, i wouldn't say he was very good. He didn't really have a huge impact on the game, apart from that turnover which worked against him.
He was far from alone, but getting BOG from both sides according to Ch 7 is a complete joke.
Yeah, I don't agree that he was BOG. But I thought he tipped the scales to the v.good because his defensive game dramatically reduced his opponent's influence. While he may not have had a huge impact offensively, he still managed to get plenty of it, and use it well.
It's the Carrazzo factor. He makes one error, late in the game when it's all over and everyone's frustrated and that's what they remember.
Wow - your Carrazzo obsession is quite outstanding.....in this particular case & in all due respect, your not being at the game makes your opinion of Carrazzo's performance irrelevant & just plain wrong.
I was at the game and the consensus was that Carrazzo was best on ground.
Was BOG from my TV also.
If there was anyone out there who was of the opinion that Mathew Watson has a future at the club they surely would of conceded tonight they were wrong.
I feel for the guy but he just had his papers stamped tonight for good.
I've had a long rethink on this guy and have come up with an alternative option for us to try.
Some people think he should be persisted with and given that we have nothing to lose this season, let's trial him as a FF.
Yes, you read that right, as a FF !!
Casboult is being given every opportunity to succeed and his size ideally suits the CHF role as well as giving him some additional space to run into up the ground.
Watson is 195cm & 101kg, he is a decent-sized lad, he showed that can take the ball on the lead and we know he has a huge booming kick on him. Plonk him in the goal-square and tell him to lead straight up the ground, the mids will deliver it lace-out on his chest.
He is bereft of confidence right now and there is nothing worse than playing a key role in defence when you're second guessing yourself.
Give him the remainder of the season as a forward and see how he goes, if it doesn't work then we are no worse off than we are right now. If he ends up succeeding, then we have just solved another of our bigger issues.
Hawthorn players looked much quicker than us tonight and their skills are something to behold. Mclean looked like an old man in comparison. Breust, Puopolo, Hill, Smith, Riolo, all rotate through the middle and they are all quick and skillful. Get with the times Carlton - we need to draft for this.
Everyone who watched the game would have noticed the same thing, but a lot of it comes from confidence.
Hawthorn has been thereabouts since they finished 5th in 2007 and they've won couple of flags since, the players expect success.
They expect to hit targets, they expect to nail all of their set shots and they expect to kick most of the difficult ones as well, Suckling drifted forward for a couple last night and he didn't look like missing, young players called on to play in the senior team are expecte to perform at their best, it's all a part of a winning culture that feeds on itself and leads to more wins and self belief.
You won't hear Hawthorn supporters saying that this bloke or that "wasn't too bad", or that he "did a couple of nice things", they simply don't accept players who can't execute basic skills.
Carlton players are used to mediocrity, I'm not saying they don't aspire to better but it's a hard cycle to break, Murphy is one of the elite players in the competition and hasn't played in a team that's gone into the third week of a finals series, at least sub consciously he probably doesn't expect to beat the best teams.
Malthouse's biggest challenge is to instil self belief in all our players, not only our best half a dozen.
And it doesn't even have to take too long........20 months ago, Port Adelaide lost to GWS, Primus got the sack & they were a basket case. And who in their right mind would have looked at their list & thought "gee they've got some potential there" !
I was at the game and the consensus was that Carrazzo was best on ground.
Was BOG from my TV also.
He may not have been BOG, but he was back to something like his best. Following an excellent game last week, it looks like he is back to fitness and form. Both of those have eluded him for some time and we have been the poorer for it. With him back and firing, our midfield starts to look a lot more competent.
It will take him a while to get his kicking right: it hasn't been a strength for most of his career. However, he made a not less mistakes than Matty Watson and he looked to be seriously on the rise.
Oh and welcome back C Judd. What a gun! Still got the old champ! Loved the way he fired up when little tnuc Rioli got 2E. Mind you the protected species will get off.
Oh and welcome back C Judd. What a gun! Still got the old champ! Loved the way he fired up when little tnuc Rioli got 2E. Mind you the protected species will get off.
I still consider Rioli the most overrated player in the game at the moment. He used to be OWNED by AJ, and AJ really did own very many. Sit on him closely and he does nothing: pity we don't have the sort of really quick, close minding player at the moment.
That will happen.
Oh and welcome back C Judd. What a gun! Still got the old champ! Loved the way he fired up when little tnuc Rioli got 2E. Mind you the protected species will get off.
I still consider Rioli the most overrated player in the game at the moment. He used to be OWNED by AJ, and AJ really did own very many. Sit on him closely and he does nothing: pity we don't have the sort of really quick, close minding player at the moment.
That will happen.
Thought it was just me that thought he was overrated. Thank god someone else sees it.
Oh and welcome back C Judd. What a gun! Still got the old champ! Loved the way he fired up when little tnuc Rioli got 2E. Mind you the protected species will get off.
I still consider Rioli the most overrated player in the game at the moment. He used to be OWNED by AJ, and AJ really did own very many. Sit on him closely and he does nothing: pity we don't have the sort of really quick, close minding player at the moment.
That will happen.
Thought it was just me that thought he was overrated. Thank god someone else sees it.
Oh no, Hawthorn people and Channel 7 seem to love him, but I've always considered him a down hill skier. He couldn't pick up his man to save his life and his game is based on the assumption that his team mates will cause turn overs.
Oh and welcome back C Judd. What a gun! Still got the old champ! Loved the way he fired up when little tnuc Rioli got 2E. Mind you the protected species will get off.
I still consider Rioli the most overrated player in the game at the moment. He used to be OWNED by AJ, and AJ really did own very many. Sit on him closely and he does nothing: pity we don't have the sort of really quick, close minding player at the moment.
That will happen.
Thought it was just me that thought he was overrated. Thank god someone else sees it.
Oh no, Hawthorn people and Channel 7 seem to love him, but I've always considered him a down hill skier. He couldn't pick up his man to save his life and his game is based on the assumption that his team mates will cause turn overs.
Garlett has kicked more goals in less games.
Rioli exposed Yarran last night.
If there was anyone out there who was of the opinion that Mathew Watson has a future at the club they surely would of conceded tonight they were wrong.
I feel for the guy but he just had his papers stamped tonight for good.
I've had a long rethink on this guy and have come up with an alternative option for us to try.
Some people think he should be persisted with and given that we have nothing to lose this season, let's trial him as a FF.
Yes, you read that right, as a FF !!
Casboult is being given every opportunity to succeed and his size ideally suits the CHF role as well as giving him some additional space to run into up the ground.
Watson is 195cm & 101kg, he is a decent-sized lad, he showed that can take the ball on the lead and we know he has a huge booming kick on him. Plonk him in the goal-square and tell him to lead straight up the ground, the mids will deliver it lace-out on his chest.
He is bereft of confidence right now and there is nothing worse than playing a key role in defence when you're second guessing yourself.
Give him the remainder of the season as a forward and see how he goes, if it doesn't work then we are no worse off than we are right now. If he ends up succeeding, then we have just solved another of our bigger issues.
No, just no.
Did you not see his miss from 20m out?
He is slow to think and react. Any half decent backman will run off him. Guaranteed way to eliminate him from the game is to zone off him and/or get a 3rd man around him and he'll give up, drop his head and watch the opposition clear the ball away from him.
Watson is done.
The Hawks were just far more efficient with their kicks. We used a lot of energy trying to put pressure on them and they just kept hitting their targets by foot. Our kicks missed too often when we had the balll. In the end we just got worn out.
@Sheik
I agree! He'd be lethal around 50m.
The boss may as well give it a go.
It might be an illusion but Watson appears quicker when playing as a forward.
Rioli exposed Yarran last night.
I think he exposed 2E not Yarran. Yarran and 2E rotated btw Puopolo (another oxygen thief) and Rioli. When Yazz went for a run, neither Puopolo or Rioli followed and on occasions, 2E didnt cover his man. Rioli's goals were as follows:
1st result of Watto's miss kick in the pocket, not sure who the opponent but 2E was in the vicinity not Yazz
2nd was the dribbler, ran off after the advantage was given. 2E was his opponent.
3rd sagged off after Yarran went for a run, 2E again didnt provide back up, played Rioli very loosely.
Watson's problem is he's slow to react.
Deadly for a defender.
I tend to agree he's just about cooked
Forward is really his last opportunity to make a go of it.
Give him a try.
The big danger is yes, the defenders will run off him but with his size the "mark and kick", and the "creating of contests" would be what we'd be asking.
Has he been tried there in the VFL
No, just no.
Did you not see his miss from 20m out?
He is slow to think and react. Any half decent backman will run off him. Guaranteed way to eliminate him from the game is to zone off him and/or get a 3rd man around him and he'll give up, drop his head and watch the opposition clear the ball away from him.
Watson is done.
Hey, you are talking to the all-time "Swing The Axe" hatchet man here ...............
I am at the stage that trying him as a key forward is the last roll of the dice, if that doesn't work he gets shown the door.
I'd like to try and resurrect something from that draft because if/when we can him, it makes that year a complete wipe-out.
Besides, better to try something different & fail than not try at all. We genuinely have nothing lose now, our season is cooked as well.
The club's put a lot of time, effort and money into him so its worth a look. he spent some time on the forward line last year before he was injured and was doing well enough to hold his spot. He's not alone, in this team, missing from 20mtrs out.
If there was anyone out there who was of the opinion that Mathew Watson has a future at the club they surely would of conceded tonight they were wrong.
I feel for the guy but he just had his papers stamped tonight for good.
I've had a long rethink on this guy and have come up with an alternative option for us to try.
Some people think he should be persisted with and given that we have nothing to lose this season, let's trial him as a FF.
Yes, you read that right, as a FF !!
Casboult is being given every opportunity to succeed and his size ideally suits the CHF role as well as giving him some additional space to run into up the ground.
Watson is 195cm & 101kg, he is a decent-sized lad, he showed that can take the ball on the lead and we know he has a huge booming kick on him. Plonk him in the goal-square and tell him to lead straight up the ground, the mids will deliver it lace-out on his chest.
He is bereft of confidence right now and there is nothing worse than playing a key role in defence when you're second guessing yourself.
Give him the remainder of the season as a forward and see how he goes, if it doesn't work then we are no worse off than we are right now. If he ends up succeeding, then we have just solved another of our bigger issues.
Yep, no point chucking out a first round pick until all avenues have been explored.
This is going to sound a little weird but one thing that is very apparent at the ground is how thick and muscular the backsides of the Hawthorn players are compared to our blokes. It's pretty true of any side compared to us.
Less beach muscle work (especially Andrew Walker who looks like a bean pole out there) more squats and deadlifts!
Watson's problem is he's slow to react.
Deadly for a defender.
I tend to agree he's just about cooked
Forward is really his last opportunity to make a go of it.
Give him a try.
The big danger is yes, the defenders will run off him but with his size the "mark and kick", and the "creating of contests" would be what we'd be asking.
Has he been tried there in the VFL
Watson= dud pick = gone.........isnt smart or intense enough to play AFL......problem is he isnt worth a dime at the minute and no club would touch him after that Hawthorn game.
This is going to sound a little weird but one thing that is very apparent at the ground is how thick and muscular the backsides of the Hawthorn players are compared to our blokes. It's pretty true of any side compared to us.
Less beach muscle work (especially Andrew Walker who looks like a bean pole out there) more squats and deadlifts!
Just on Walker...
Not sure how many elite runners can afford to have a lot of junk in their trunk.
Walker leaves Judd for dead and perhaps that is because of the leaner body by comparison?
Watson= dud pick = gone.........isnt smart or intense enough to play AFL......problem is he isnt worth a dime at the minute and no club would touch him after that Hawthorn game.
We said that about Hampson, there's always Richmond. ;)
One of the few pleasing things about the game was Rowe's hit on Lewis. Lewis had been trying to rough up Gibbs and it was nice to see one of our players dish a bit out.
Lewis was pretty quiet in the first half and I think Rowe deserves some of the credit for that.
Watson= dud pick = gone.........isnt smart or intense enough to play AFL......problem is he isnt worth a dime at the minute and no club would touch him after that Hawthorn game.
We said that about Hampson, there's always Richmond. ;)
It wouldn't surprise me to see Watson line up up forward if he plays anymore games in 2014.
This is going to sound a little weird but one thing that is very apparent at the ground is how thick and muscular the backsides of the Hawthorn players are compared to our blokes. It's pretty true of any side compared to us.
Less beach muscle work (especially Andrew Walker who looks like a bean pole out there) more squats and deadlifts!
Just on Walker...
Not sure how many elite runners can afford to have a lot of junk in their trunk.
Walker leaves Judd for dead and perhaps that is because of the leaner body by comparison?
There's not a lot of difference in their bodies
Walker 190cm- 88 kg
Judd 189- 88 kg
Walker was a schoolboy champ sprinter from memory.....had really good speed /endurance 200/400m
Wasn't last night a reminder of what Wayne Hughes has done to this football club over the last decade?
Hawthorn Players:
- Sublime skills
- Quick by hand and foot
- Decisive
- Flexible (multiple positions)
- One touch players (no fumbling)
- Fit and pacy
- Run and spread for days
Carlton Players:
- Too many plodders
- Slow by hand and foot
- Indecisive
- Poorly skilled
- Slow and lack of spread
- Fumblers
Make no mistake MM coached well last night. There's only so much he can do with this list. We essentially won that game last week against a very good side and we managed to make a contest with an elite outfit last night. I'm confident that with a restructure of the list MM can take us to the top.
Hawthorn players looked much quicker than us tonight and their skills are something to behold. Mclean looked like an old man in comparison. Breust, Puopolo, Hill, Smith, Riolo, all rotate through the middle and they are all quick and skillful. Get with the times Carlton - we need to draft for this.
Roughead even played in the middle last night alongside Ceglar and won clearances LOL
Anyway, last night was not the end of the world. It just showed where our list is at more than anything. We need a complete restructuring of the recruitment department and some astute trading then good things might come and sooner than you might think.
Toddy
You have saved me typing something similar, thanks Toddy.
If you look at the Hawks, they had a lot of their better players out (granted we had no Jammo & Hendo) but they were able to cover for them and still get a win. Their lesser lights played with the same level of aggression coupled with quality ball-handling skills.
Whenever we have some serious outs, we have to bring in B-Grade plodders who will give their best, but is below that level displayed by the Hawks.
Did anyone watch the Swans V Port match yesterday ?? Both of those teams are highly skilled and play with a strong discipline & intent that we can only dream about right now.
I know I am banging on ad-nauseum about this (and have been for the past 10-years) but the list needs to be savagely addressed over the next 2-3 years to get it to the point where we are on a par with the other Top 4 teams. Otherwise, we will be consigned to a lifetime of mid-lower table finishes alongside the Bulldogs & the Saints, no coincidence they have only won one premiership each too.
By the way, next time a Carlton player gets into a fight/scrap with the Hawthorn player, I don't want to see a school-girl bitch-slap across the face!!
Clench the fist and job him on the nose, make sure you draw some blood.
So what if he gets reported and spends a week on the sidelines. I'm sick of this 'soft as butter' approach especially when the Hawks are more than happy to push us around.
Stand up & fight.
Just saw a tackle similar to Waites tackle in the coll-wb game against Clinton young which was paid to the tackler ...... Can't believe these umpires are costing clubs games and can't judge simple decisions which should be bread and butter for them
Wow - your Carrazzo obsession is quite outstanding.....in this particular case & in all due respect, your not being at the game makes your opinion of Carrazzo's performance irrelevant & just plain wrong.
Sheesh....that escalated quickly. :P
Watson= dud pick = gone.........isnt smart or intense enough to play AFL......problem is he isnt worth a dime at the minute and no club would touch him after that Hawthorn game.
We said that about Hampson, there's always Richmond. ;)
Apparently had a dead set shocker yesterday.
In any case, I thought the main reason we lost, is that when the game was in the balance at the end of the 3/4 the Hawks were harder for longer with the result of them winning. They piled on the last 2 goals of the 3rd term too easily, and then started firing and went up about 4 notches in intensity whilst we sort of fizzled out in that category.
That being said the whole game may very well have ended different had Matthew Watson not missed an absolute gimme goal for a guy with supposedly the best left foot in our team.
Red time goals are a big big problem for this club... we never score them but the other mobs always do.
Re Watson - been saying is for a while. If he has to play, it is forward. It SHOULD be forward at VFL level. He ain't no defender I'll give ya the tip!
I know he's contracted for next year but I'd be keen to just chop him.
Disastrous draft pick - how's Isaac Smith and Jack Darling gone at the top level? - and he's just not up to it. Simple as that.
Play him forward if we are desperate to play him at all.
That display from him on Friday night is right up there with some of the Kane Lucas efforts. Shocking!!!!
Maybe it's the booming left foot and stocky build, but he does remind me of Dorotich,
Maybe it's the booming left foot and stocky build, but he does remind me of Dorotich,
It's his nonchalance. ;)
Yazz - unsighted - thought we got the "lazy Yazz" tonight, apart from a couple of tackles.
thouhgt the Hawks did a good job of taking Yazz deep and, therefore, keeping out of the play. we needed him in the play and he would have helped with our lack of polish. MM needs to recognise this and swing him onto a wing and swap someone back onto his man, when this happens.
same thing used to happen with Gibbs, when he played HB - he would be taken to the goal square and taken out of the play
have to recognise it ealry and do something about it
Maybe it's the booming left foot and stocky build, but he does remind me of Dorotich,
Watson's not in the same hemisphere as Dorotich.
The bloke simply isn't good enough, he regularly gets taken to the cleaners in the VFL for Pete's sake.
For those who reckon he should play as a forward, key forward is a much harder position to play, if you think he's bad in defence you haven't seen anything.
We should just cut our losses, and sack whoever re-signed him and Bootsma.
Maybe it's the booming left foot and stocky build, but he does remind me of Dorotich,
Watson's not in the same hemisphere as Dorotich.
The bloke simply isn't good enough, he regularly gets taken to the cleaners in the VFL for Pete's sake.
For those who reckon he should play as a forward, key forward is a much harder position to play, if you think he's bad in defence you haven't seen anything.
We should just cut our losses, and sack whoever re-signed him and Bootsma.
[/quote Mr.Hughes please take a bow :'( >:(
Yazz - unsighted - thought we got the "lazy Yazz" tonight, apart from a couple of tackles.
thouhgt the Hawks did a good job of taking Yazz deep and, therefore, keeping out of the play. we needed him in the play and he would have helped with our lack of polish. MM needs to recognise this and swing him onto a wing and swap someone back onto his man, when this happens.
same thing used to happen with Gibbs, when he played HB - he would be taken to the goal square and taken out of the play
have to recognise it ealry and do something about it
That's how I saw it. Yarran was playing a very defensive role, often matched against a taller opponent, and had little opportunity to provide run out of the backline. A switch with Menzel or Docherty could have got Yarran more involved offensively.
Maybe it's the booming left foot and stocky build, but he does remind me of Dorotich,
Watson's not in the same hemisphere as Dorotich.
The bloke simply isn't good enough, he regularly gets taken to the cleaners in the VFL for Pete's sake.
For those who reckon he should play as a forward, key forward is a much harder position to play, if you think he's bad in defence you haven't seen anything.
We should just cut our losses, and sack whoever re-signed him and Bootsma.
Can't argue with you regarding his inability to show much on a consistent basis since his arrival. I think his papers are stamped, one only had to listen to MM 's reply re the question about his missed sitter. It was short and to the point "doesn't help"- I interpreted his tone as meaning 'fed up '..