Carlton Supporters Club

Princes Park => Robert Heatley Stand => Topic started by: crashlander on April 05, 2018, 11:09:24 am

Title: 2018 VFL Rd 1: Northern Blues vs Collingwood
Post by: crashlander on April 05, 2018, 11:09:24 am
This Saturday the Baby Blues are playing the Meat Pies. The game is at Preston, starting at 1400.

At this point, Lobbe will be in and probably Lang.
Title: Re: 2018 VFL Rd 1: Northern Blues vs Collingwood
Post by: crashlander on April 05, 2018, 08:58:55 pm
NORTHERN BLUES v. COLLINGWOOD

Round 1 – 07/04/2018
02:00PM    Preston City Oval

Northern Blues

B: 7. M. Blakey, 17. S. Rowe, 49. A. Schumacher
HB: H. Macreadie, 43. J. Glass-McCasker, 13. C. O’Shea
C: 4. L.  O’Brien, 1. T.  Wilson, 45. M.  Shaw
HF:. 5 T. De Koning, 19. H. McKay, 26. J. Silvagni
F: 38. K. LeBois, 30. P. Kerr, 55. J. Williams
R: 34. A. Phillips, 75. N. Graham, 21. S. Kerridge
Int: 11. A. Federico, 9. S. Fisher, 8. J. Hill, 10. J. Johnston, 25. K. Keppel, 36. M. Lobbe, 22. C. McCabe, 6. G. Strachan
23P: 57. E. Penrith

16 Carlton players named. Hopefully Lobbe plays. We need to get a our secondary ruckmen into form.

Collingwood

B: 34. T. Brown, 41. B. Mihocek, 44. J. Madgen
HB: 31. F. Appleby, 51. M. Hore, 43. A. Oxley
C: 16. C.  Mayne, 53. J.  Hellier, 28. N.  Murphy
HF: 26. J. Daicos, 23. S. McLarty, 2. J. De Goey
F: 11. J. Blair, 50. J. Elliott, 1. A. Fasolo
R: 45. M. Lynch, 36. B. Sier, 33. R. Wills
Int: 69. J. Blair, 47. G. Borthwick, 49. M. Chippendale, 54. A. Gallucci, 64. C. Lane, 52. E. Le Grice, 67. M. Smith, 48. L. Tardrew
23P: 63. C. Wellings

The Collingwood side looks reasonably strong, with a lot of AFL experience. And Andrew Gallucci.
Title: Re: 2018 VFL Rd 1: Northern Blues vs Collingwood
Post by: Gointocarlton on April 05, 2018, 09:12:57 pm
Correct me if I'm wrong but I cant remember an NB side with so many Carlton list players.
Title: Re: 2018 VFL Rd 1: Northern Blues vs Collingwood
Post by: bmaurizio on April 05, 2018, 09:23:21 pm
A far stronger looking NB team  at long last, this will help fast track maturity and development f the youngsters too.
Go Blues
Title: Re: 2018 VFL Rd 1: Northern Blues vs Collingwood
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on April 05, 2018, 09:40:22 pm
Decent Pies FF line...Blair Elliott Fasalo.....glad they are not playing seniors.....
Title: Re: 2018 VFL Rd 1: Northern Blues vs Collingwood
Post by: bmaurizio on April 05, 2018, 09:49:34 pm
Yep the three pie players you mentioned would make a big difference for them.
However got a suspicion there may be a late change before the game.
Title: Re: 2018 VFL Rd 1: Northern Blues vs Collingwood
Post by: Gointocarlton on April 05, 2018, 09:54:54 pm
Decent Pies FF line...Blair Elliott Fasalo.....glad they are not playing seniors.....
All have caused us headaches in the past.
Title: Re: 2018 VFL Rd 1: Northern Blues vs Collingwood
Post by: jeza on April 05, 2018, 10:48:57 pm
Where is Lang?
Title: Re: 2018 VFL Rd 1: Northern Blues vs Collingwood
Post by: flyboy77 on April 05, 2018, 10:51:25 pm
still on sidelines. Macca said tuesday he'd play 2s this weekend. Bolts today said no, not so...watch this space...
Title: Re: 2018 VFL Rd 1: Northern Blues vs Collingwood
Post by: Thryleon on April 06, 2018, 12:12:49 am
Where is Lang?

Two months ago he had strained ankle ligaments and had resumed running.

I find it hard to believe that it was only strained ligaments given he's not even playing reserved yet.
Title: Re: 2018 VFL Rd 1: Northern Blues vs Collingwood
Post by: LP on April 06, 2018, 07:45:09 am
still on sidelines. Macca said tuesday he'd play 2s this weekend. Bolts today said no, not so...watch this space...

Mckay didn't say that, he said Lang was a test last week and would be another test this week.
Title: Re: 2018 VFL Rd 1: Northern Blues vs Collingwood
Post by: crashlander on April 06, 2018, 10:23:22 am
Correct me if I'm wrong but I cant remember an NB side with so many Carlton list players.
We've equaled the numbers a few times, but the quality will remain a question until we see them win regularly.
Title: Re: 2018 VFL Rd 1: Northern Blues vs Collingwood
Post by: LP on April 06, 2018, 11:54:01 am
Back room rumors of a resolution on a proposal to restore a reserves comp are getting stronger.

It looks like it's going to happen this time because some at the top of AFL House have shifted to support it. When though is unsure, it looks like it will be 2 or 3 years out.

In association with this, it looks like there will be changes to draft age rules and some other recruit related issues to allow the new competition to get of the ground. It looks like the new comp will borrow a bit from the AFL and a bit from the TAC Cup to have a comp that has kids playing alongside men.
Title: Re: 2018 VFL Rd 1: Northern Blues vs Collingwood
Post by: flyboy77 on April 06, 2018, 12:38:34 pm
Mckay didn't say that, he said Lang was a test last week and would be another test this week.

i'll listen again....but whatever he's nit fit,
Title: Re: 2018 VFL Rd 1: Northern Blues vs Collingwood
Post by: LP on April 06, 2018, 12:57:12 pm
i'll listen again....but whatever he's nit fit,

Exactly.
Title: Re: 2018 VFL Rd 1: Northern Blues vs Collingwood
Post by: crashlander on April 07, 2018, 10:22:55 am
Well, with last night's disappointment, there are clearly places available for those who want them badly enough. Hopefully the NBs will respond as we hope.
Title: Re: 2018 VFL Rd 1: Northern Blues vs Collingwood
Post by: Lods on April 07, 2018, 02:21:12 pm
Live stream...(no commentary) on youtube

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsgL2mjcqa0
Title: Re: 2018 VFL Rd 1: Northern Blues vs Collingwood
Post by: Baggers on April 07, 2018, 02:47:22 pm
Rowe, Graham, Phillips and SOJ seem to be doing okay...

Rottingwood doing it pretty easy. 27 pts up 10 minute mark of the 2nd.
Title: Re: 2018 VFL Rd 1: Northern Blues vs Collingwood
Post by: townsendcalling on April 07, 2018, 02:48:34 pm
Silvagni and Hraham are the impact players so far. Harry hardly sighted, ditto Kerr. Phillips is working hard but I think Lobbe might be done. Young De Konging now having a go in the ruck. Lively.
Title: Re: 2018 VFL Rd 1: Northern Blues vs Collingwood
Post by: RiverRat on April 07, 2018, 03:00:11 pm
Nobody trying to bang down the door to demand senior selection. >:(

Kerridge, Graham and Silvagni are showing us what we already know about them and should be considered for senior selection.

Phillips will probably be first in line if Kreuzer misses again - Rowe is an established option when he is match fit again.

I like the way O'Brien and De Koning move so they are worth observing for further development.
Title: Re: 2018 VFL Rd 1: Northern Blues vs Collingwood
Post by: townsendcalling on April 07, 2018, 03:02:36 pm
All I can say is, if there are players wanting to stake claims for a place in the firsts, they are obviously waiting for the second half..... (Good healthy crowd, nice VFA feel to it!!)
Title: Re: 2018 VFL Rd 1: Northern Blues vs Collingwood
Post by: LoveNavy on April 07, 2018, 03:15:54 pm
If folks were despondent watching our boys last night, I suggest they don't tune into our 2's :-[
Title: Re: 2018 VFL Rd 1: Northern Blues vs Collingwood
Post by: LoveNavy on April 07, 2018, 03:21:47 pm
41 to 93 at halftime.
The pies could reach the 150 - 200pts mark at this rate.
Title: Re: 2018 VFL Rd 1: Northern Blues vs Collingwood
Post by: crashlander on April 07, 2018, 03:42:10 pm
 :(
41 to 93 at halftime.
The pies could reach the 150 - 200pts mark at this rate.
:(
Title: Re: 2018 VFL Rd 1: Northern Blues vs Collingwood
Post by: crashlander on April 07, 2018, 03:51:06 pm
NB 41 COL 112.
Title: Re: 2018 VFL Rd 1: Northern Blues vs Collingwood
Post by: crashlander on April 07, 2018, 03:54:48 pm
NB 41 COL 112.
NB 47 COL 126.
2 for Le Bois.
Title: Re: 2018 VFL Rd 1: Northern Blues vs Collingwood
Post by: LoveNavy on April 07, 2018, 03:58:36 pm
47 - 133 :'(
Title: Re: 2018 VFL Rd 1: Northern Blues vs Collingwood
Post by: blue4life on April 07, 2018, 04:03:48 pm
Good to see our VFL team putting pressure on the seniors.  ::)
Title: Re: 2018 VFL Rd 1: Northern Blues vs Collingwood
Post by: townsendcalling on April 07, 2018, 04:04:16 pm
22:13. vs. 7:5
Title: Re: 2018 VFL Rd 1: Northern Blues vs Collingwood
Post by: LoveNavy on April 07, 2018, 04:07:19 pm
I've no idea what any of our coaches can say about this weeks performances :(
No idea at all.
Title: Re: 2018 VFL Rd 1: Northern Blues vs Collingwood
Post by: crazyjoedevolamk11 on April 07, 2018, 04:10:34 pm
99 points down at 3/4 time, great weekend for the club...Spineless 8)
Title: Re: 2018 VFL Rd 1: Northern Blues vs Collingwood
Post by: cookie2 on April 07, 2018, 04:10:41 pm
I've no idea what any of our coaches can say about this weeks performances :(
No idea at all.

"Very sorry Bluebaggers" ?  :-[
Title: Re: 2018 VFL Rd 1: Northern Blues vs Collingwood
Post by: Gointocarlton on April 07, 2018, 04:16:25 pm
Its very sad to see our twos get pummelled, not the outcome I expected. Our entire club is in a massive hole it needs to to dig itself out of...fast
Title: Re: 2018 VFL Rd 1: Northern Blues vs Collingwood
Post by: Baggers on April 07, 2018, 04:17:24 pm
Speechless. Can't believe what I am watching and yes, I fear our club is in the shizen.
Title: Re: 2018 VFL Rd 1: Northern Blues vs Collingwood
Post by: Baggers on April 07, 2018, 04:23:33 pm
So far, the final qtr is comical... Keystone Cops stuff. Rottingwood up by 111 pts...  :-[
Title: Re: 2018 VFL Rd 1: Northern Blues vs Collingwood
Post by: LoveNavy on April 07, 2018, 04:29:11 pm
The standard is like U12 v VFL. The worse part is there's so many Blues players in the mix.

The ONLY positive I have found is we have an appropriate sponsor for streaming the game.  Cousins Smash Repairs. I think they'll get plenty of business from our players who've been smashed :-[

Not sure how the club plans to resurrect the carnage. In fact it looks like a total write off of the entire fleet from where I sit.

Where to from here is the question???
I hope someone has some answers coz I'm totally at a loss.
Title: Re: 2018 VFL Rd 1: Northern Blues vs Collingwood
Post by: Baggers on April 07, 2018, 04:35:45 pm
The standard is like U12 v VFL. The worse part is there's so many Blues players in the mix.

The ONLY positive I have found is we have an appropriate sponsor for streaming the game.  Cousins Smash Repairs. I think they'll get plenty of business from our players who've been smashed :-[

Not sure how the club plans to resurrect the carnage. In fact it looks like a total write off of the entire fleet from where I sit.

Where to from here is the question???
I hope someone has some answers coz I'm totally at a loss.

 :)) :)) :)) Good one. Thank you, LN, we needed a good laugh at something other than our club...  :(
Title: Re: 2018 VFL Rd 1: Northern Blues vs Collingwood
Post by: LoveNavy on April 07, 2018, 04:49:08 pm
61 - 189 In q4. They could still top 200!!

MY deepest sympathy goes to our bravest bluebaggers who are attending the game. It must be excruciatingly painful to endure  :'(
Title: Re: 2018 VFL Rd 1: Northern Blues vs Collingwood
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on April 07, 2018, 04:50:38 pm
Like Patrick Kerr...big unit who has a great kick on him.....has to play seniors soon...
Title: Re: 2018 VFL Rd 1: Northern Blues vs Collingwood
Post by: JonDorotich on April 07, 2018, 04:51:06 pm
Nobody trying to bang down the door to demand senior selection. >:(

Kerridge, Graham and Silvagni are showing us what we already know about them and should be considered for senior selection.

Phillips will probably be first in line if Kreuzer misses again - Rowe is an established option when he is match fit again.

I like the way O'Brien and De Koning move so they are worth observing for further development.


Can’t say I agree with your assessment of Kerridge, Graham and Sivagni - I’ve just returned from the game and none of those players impressed.  Kerridge’s disposal was abysmal and Graham and Silvagni kept getting caught by no-namers in the VFL.

Re Harry McKay - if he wants to play AFL he might actually show some intent to get the ball - he just doesn’t want it enough and spent most of the day floating behind the contest rather than making the play.

Phillips and O’Brien looked Ok at times.

Other than that, nothing to see at the Northern Blues other than a cast of blues players who all looked like they need a good square meal. Pathetic.
Title: Re: 2018 VFL Rd 1: Northern Blues vs Collingwood
Post by: Baggers on April 07, 2018, 04:53:56 pm
201 to 71... a 130 pt drubbing at home from Rottingwood.

Only positives I could see were than Sam Rowe got through another game and Phillips did well in the ruck, so much so that they roved to him.
Title: Re: 2018 VFL Rd 1: Northern Blues vs Collingwood
Post by: Baggers on April 07, 2018, 04:56:01 pm

Can’t say I agree with your assessment of Kerridge, Graham and Sivagni - I’ve just returned from the game and none of those players impressed.  Kerridge’s disposal was abysmal and Graham and Silvagni kept getting caught by no-namers in the VFL.

Re Harry McKay - if he wants to play AFL he might actually show some intent to get the ball - he just doesn’t want it enough and spent most of the day floating behind the contest rather than making the play.

Phillips and O’Brien looked Ok at times.

Other than that, nothing to see at the Northern Blues other than a cast of blues players who all looked like they need a good square meal. Pathetic.

Yep, a long way from AFL footy.
Title: Re: 2018 VFL Rd 1: Northern Blues vs Collingwood
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on April 07, 2018, 04:57:52 pm

Can’t say I agree with your assessment of Kerridge, Graham and Sivagni - I’ve just returned from the game and none of those players impressed.  Kerridge’s disposal was abysmal and Graham and Silvagni kept getting caught by no-namers in the VFL.

Re Harry McKay - if he wants to play AFL he might actually show some intent to get the ball - he just doesn’t want it enough and spent most of the day floating behind the contest rather than making the play.

Phillips and O’Brien looked Ok at times.

Other than that, nothing to see at the Northern Blues other than a cast of blues players who all looked like they need a good square meal. Pathetic.

Agree on Kerridge and Graham..just garbage....Jack is ultra slow...

Best was Philips ......Kerr and Harry show ability, Obrien is a nice kick but another smaller type  and was ok at times...Pies were too slick and smart, even Mayne got a kick today...Jesse GMac was about as bad as I have seen...
Title: Re: 2018 VFL Rd 1: Northern Blues vs Collingwood
Post by: JonDorotich on April 07, 2018, 05:00:16 pm
Agree on Kerridge and Graham..just garbage....Jack is ultra slow...

Best was Philips ......Kerr and Harry show ability, Obrien is a nice kick but another smaller type  and was ok at times...Pies were too slick and smart, even Mayne got a kick today...

Yep Mayne looked great and Josh looked more like Peter against us. Fasolo was having a laugh....

What we wouldn’t do for a Michael Conlon type
Title: Re: 2018 VFL Rd 1: Northern Blues vs Collingwood
Post by: Lods on April 07, 2018, 05:03:13 pm
Where to from here is the question???
I hope someone has some answers coz I'm totally at a loss.

Send all the kids and Cripps back to the VFL and leave them there for the rest of the year.
Let them develop a team ethic and learn to play together for one another.
Bring them back up at the start of next year...add a touch of Docherty as Captain...and away we go.

(and I'm only half joking :( )
Title: Re: 2018 VFL Rd 1: Northern Blues vs Collingwood
Post by: LoveNavy on April 07, 2018, 05:05:10 pm

Can’t say I agree with your assessment of Kerridge, Graham and Sivagni - I’ve just returned from the game and none of those players impressed.  Kerridge’s disposal was abysmal and Graham and Silvagni kept getting caught by no-namers in the VFL.

Re Harry McKay - if he wants to play AFL he might actually show some intent to get the ball - he just doesn’t want it enough and spent most of the day floating behind the contest rather than making the play.

Phillips and O’Brien looked Ok at times.

Other than that, nothing to see at the Northern Blues other than a cast of blues players who all looked like they need a good square meal. Pathetic.

????????????????????????????
Take your pick... you deserve it
Title: Re: 2018 VFL Rd 1: Northern Blues vs Collingwood
Post by: LoveNavy on April 07, 2018, 05:07:42 pm
Send all the kids and Cripps back to the VFL and leave them there for the rest of the year.
Let them develop a team ethic and learn to play together for one another.
Bring them back up at the start of next year...add a touch of Docherty as Captain...and away we go.

(and I'm only half joking :( )

I like it. If it's "time playing together..... to gel" they need. We couldn't do any worse surely.
Title: Re: 2018 VFL Rd 1: Northern Blues vs Collingwood
Post by: Thryleon on April 07, 2018, 05:09:10 pm
May as well do it at AFL level instead.

Gws and gold coast didn't win much and got their fair share of thumpings.

Title: Re: 2018 VFL Rd 1: Northern Blues vs Collingwood
Post by: Lods on April 07, 2018, 05:12:50 pm
May as well do it at AFL level instead.

Not averse to that idea.
I'd keep Kreuzer in the side though.
Apart from that 25's and under
Title: Re: 2018 VFL Rd 1: Northern Blues vs Collingwood
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on April 07, 2018, 05:14:38 pm
I would get Teague to coach the NB's........that was scary today what we saw and I believe no Collingwood team has scored 200 plus points before.
Thats bad for the kids and we need more fight shown than today, you cant ask supporters to stick with a club delivering that rubbish performance.
Bolton should hold a crisis meeting and put everyone on notice including himself......
Title: Re: 2018 VFL Rd 1: Northern Blues vs Collingwood
Post by: Lods on April 07, 2018, 05:17:24 pm
The point is there is no point dropping guys like Dow, Polson even Weitering.... if they're going to be part of that debacle.
That's not a learning experience.... it's a demoralising experience
Title: Re: 2018 VFL Rd 1: Northern Blues vs Collingwood
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on April 07, 2018, 05:19:58 pm
The point is there is no point dropping guys like Dow, Polson even Weitering.... if they're going to be part of that debacle.
That's not a learning experience.... it's a demoralising experience

Deckchairs.....I'd play Kerr or Harry ......the rest as you say..no point.
Title: Re: 2018 VFL Rd 1: Northern Blues vs Collingwood
Post by: Jack Burton on April 07, 2018, 05:20:41 pm
Given there were so many Carlton listed players in that drubbing, that has to say something about our list management. They have more injuries than us, but still their depth is THAT much better than ours? I'm a big SOS fan, but my faith is wavering
Title: Re: 2018 VFL Rd 1: Northern Blues vs Collingwood
Post by: townsendcalling on April 07, 2018, 05:23:53 pm
Lasted 3 quarters at the ground.  Graham at least contests and is a mature body who does work hard. DeKoning has promise and will get better. O’Brien ditto. Phillips is an adequate backup. Lobbe was injured early. McKay has great hands...when he bothers to use them. As a wildcard selection, I’d give Kerr a go, to let him show what he’s got and to highlight to McKay what the current pecking order is.  Silvagni presented well, spents some time on ball and will return shortly. 
Title: Re: 2018 VFL Rd 1: Northern Blues vs Collingwood
Post by: LoveNavy on April 07, 2018, 05:24:22 pm
May as well do it at AFL level instead.

Gws and gold coast didn't win much and got their fair share of thumpings.

We don't have a list chock full of talent.  So the thumping may well be relative.....
Do you think our supporters could or would sustain regular 10+ goal losses?
If not, we might be the first to trial a "membership rebuild"  :))
Novel. If nothing else.
Title: Re: 2018 VFL Rd 1: Northern Blues vs Collingwood
Post by: cookie2 on April 07, 2018, 05:26:01 pm
This is beginning to smack of player disillusionment imo.
Title: Re: 2018 VFL Rd 1: Northern Blues vs Collingwood
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on April 07, 2018, 05:36:09 pm
Lasted 3 quarters at the ground.  Graham at least contests and is a mature body who does work hard. DeKoning has promise and will get better. O’Brien ditto. Phillips is an adequate backup. Lobbe was injured early. McKay has great hands...when he bothers to use them. As a wildcard selection, I’d give Kerr a go, to let him show what he’s got and to highlight to McKay what the current pecking order is.  Silvagni presented well, spents some time on ball and will return shortly.

Been pushing up for Kerr and I think its time...he may not be in red hot form but he looks the business when he marks and kicks for goal, we need to take risks and fastrack players we think might help us...not go back to the tried and failed.
Title: Re: 2018 VFL Rd 1: Northern Blues vs Collingwood
Post by: Lods on April 07, 2018, 05:38:42 pm
This is beginning to smack of player disillusionment imo.

Sadly, that's the feeling I got in the second quarter.
But all is not lost because there were patches of the game that didn't reflect that.

A win or two and things change pretty quickly....but boy do we need that win or two. ::)
Title: Re: 2018 VFL Rd 1: Northern Blues vs Collingwood
Post by: kruddler on April 07, 2018, 05:51:06 pm
Sadly, that's the feeling I got in the second quarter.
But all is not lost because there were patches of the game that didn't reflect that.

A win or two and things change pretty quickly....but boy do we need that win or two. ::)

Well we've got the draw for it.

R4 - North (last year 15th, above us by % only)
R5 - West Coast (@MCG which they can't play)
R6 - Western Bulldogs (currently the only team in the comp below us)

After that, if it isn't already, it will get ugly.

Need some confidence, quick!
Title: Re: 2018 VFL Rd 1: Northern Blues vs Collingwood
Post by: BluePhantom on April 07, 2018, 06:22:31 pm
Been pushing up for Kerr and I think its time...he may not be in red hot form but he looks the business when he marks and kicks for goal, we need to take risks and fastrack players we thing might help us...not go back to the tried and failed.

BB is fast tracking Polson for no particular reason so may as well give Kerr a good go.
At least like SOJ he will play for the jumper  :-\
Title: Re: 2018 VFL Rd 1: Northern Blues vs Collingwood
Post by: RiverRat on April 07, 2018, 06:33:07 pm
I've no idea what any of our coaches can say about this weeks performances :(
No idea at all.

Did you intend to answer your own question?
Title: Re: 2018 VFL Rd 1: Northern Blues vs Collingwood
Post by: Jack Burton on April 07, 2018, 06:44:49 pm
Polson playing because we are seriously lacking pace and pressure inside forward 50, Kerr will make the situation worse not better
Title: Re: 2018 VFL Rd 1: Northern Blues vs Collingwood
Post by: LP on April 07, 2018, 07:45:09 pm
Like Patrick Kerr...big unit who has a great kick on him.....has to play seniors soon...

Exactly!

As much as I enjoyed Levi kicking straight last night his game style was rubbish and looking at McKay on the replay today it's similarly rubbish. Not sure who is responsible for this, coaches or players, but it's a joke.

Friday night we saw Cripps, Charlie and Weitering all crunched by Levi jumping into them from behind yet barely touching an opponent in the process. An accident, well briefed by his manager looking for a contract extension?

Several times Friday night lots of supporters including the commentators bemoaned our ball use entering F50, but on several occasions we had players kicking the ball from forward of the wing over 40m plus or more of open space and Levi refused to run to the ball. All he wanted to do was launch from behind, and it worked a couple of times for him but on the other occasions it just looked rubbish and had team-mates hanging their heads in confusion. The tell that this was pissing the team off was when Levi crumbed a goal, hardly a single team-mate gave him a boost!

Bring on the mid-season trade so we can do a deal now, Levi will never be worth more than today!

McKay, wanting easy out the back Joe-the-Goose goals. I mentioned in one of the practice match reviews that I was worried about these signs, a lot of people must go off the stats but there was barely a highlight to mention on the video review. Which coach is responsible for having 200cm x 100kg players behave like Eddie Betts? By default they must take the front position, dispose of defenders and generate opportunities for crumbers, not play like rovers!
Title: Re: 2018 VFL Rd 1: Northern Blues vs Collingwood
Post by: flyboy77 on April 07, 2018, 09:53:11 pm
Quote
Friday night we saw Cripps, Charlie and Weitering all crunched by Levi jumping into them from behind yet barely touching an opponent in the process. An accident, well briefed by his manager looking for a contract extension?

What an utterly stupid comment. Go support another team clown...  >:D >:D
Title: Re: 2018 VFL Rd 1: Northern Blues vs Collingwood
Post by: kruddler on April 07, 2018, 10:05:03 pm
Exactly!

As much as I enjoyed Levi kicking straight last night his game style was rubbish and looking at McKay on the replay today it's similarly rubbish. Not sure who is responsible for this, coaches or players, but it's a joke.

Friday night we saw Cripps, Charlie and Weitering all crunched by Levi jumping into them from behind yet barely touching an opponent in the process. An accident, well briefed by his manager looking for a contract extension?

Several times Friday night lots of supporters including the commentators bemoaned our ball use entering F50, but on several occasions we had players kicking the ball from forward of the wing over 40m plus or more of open space and Levi refused to run to the ball. All he wanted to do was launch from behind, and it worked a couple of times for him but on the other occasions it just looked rubbish and had team-mates hanging their heads in confusion. The tell that this was pissing the team off was when Levi crumbed a goal, hardly a single team-mate gave him a boost!

Bring on the mid-season trade so we can do a deal now, Levi will never be worth more than today!

McKay, wanting easy out the back Joe-the-Goose goals. I mentioned in one of the practice match reviews that I was worried about these signs, a lot of people must go off the stats but there was barely a highlight to mention on the video review. Which coach is responsible for having 200cm x 100kg players behave like Eddie Betts? By default they must take the front position, dispose of defenders and generate opportunities for crumbers, not play like rovers!

You got shares in a tin foil company or do you just like the way the hat feels on your head?

Some bizzare comments in there....even for you.
Title: Re: 2018 VFL Rd 1: Northern Blues vs Collingwood
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on April 07, 2018, 10:24:42 pm
Exactly!

As much as I enjoyed Levi kicking straight last night his game style was rubbish and looking at McKay on the replay today it's similarly rubbish. Not sure who is responsible for this, coaches or players, but it's a joke.

Friday night we saw Cripps, Charlie and Weitering all crunched by Levi jumping into them from behind yet barely touching an opponent in the process. An accident, well briefed by his manager looking for a contract extension?

Several times Friday night lots of supporters including the commentators bemoaned our ball use entering F50, but on several occasions we had players kicking the ball from forward of the wing over 40m plus or more of open space and Levi refused to run to the ball. All he wanted to do was launch from behind, and it worked a couple of times for him but on the other occasions it just looked rubbish and had team-mates hanging their heads in confusion. The tell that this was pissing the team off was when Levi crumbed a goal, hardly a single team-mate gave him a boost!

Bring on the mid-season trade so we can do a deal now, Levi will never be worth more than today!

McKay, wanting easy out the back Joe-the-Goose goals. I mentioned in one of the practice match reviews that I was worried about these signs, a lot of people must go off the stats but there was barely a highlight to mention on the video review. Which coach is responsible for having 200cm x 100kg players behave like Eddie Betts? By default they must take the front position, dispose of defenders and generate opportunities for crumbers, not play like rovers!

LP..Not sure Levi is our major worry, he aint pretty but was effective vs Collingwood in his own way. Pretty delivery isnt and hasnt been a feature of our play since Houlihan last passed to Fev.
Bombed balls on our forwards heads is par for the course in our forward line and Levi is better contesting than worrying too much about who is in front of him getting crunched, he should be doing more of it IMO.
I want Kerr in because while still a novice he leads well and draws the ball to him......he is a more traditional forward than Levi the way he plays and might straighten us up a bit and encourage more system.
The smaller forward line thematic probably means Levi  is less valuable at the minute and while he isnt everyone's cup of tea he seems injury free compared to our other big blokes and we need him more than ever this season IMO ...
Title: Re: 2018 VFL Rd 1: Northern Blues vs Collingwood
Post by: spf on April 08, 2018, 08:41:53 am
Thankfully I didn't see the game, however the reports are nothing short of disastrous. It seems the common of theme of being beaten to the ball, out pressured and simple skill errors, are tracking in the firsts and the seconds.

The skill errors are common in poor teams, but look where St Kilda and North Melbourne are presently - they are very much in a similar position. I think the silver lining (if there is any), is that we can improve. A little more composure (experience), improve decision making (experience), along with more hardness to the contest (physical development / attitude), will see a more committed side. This rings true for both reserves and seniors, it may be that this is the annus horribilis of the rebuild, if we stick to the path, we may emerge out of this a stronger club overall.

Hard to see and accept, but could this be the catalyst for real change? It will shock and hurt the players, it will hurt the club and supporters, but I would love to look back on this in four to five months and know this was the pain we had to have. Probably time to play our youngsters together, it may mean putting them together into the one team - be it the seniors or reserves.
Title: Re: 2018 VFL Rd 1: Northern Blues vs Collingwood
Post by: sandsmere on April 08, 2018, 09:29:23 am
Like Patrick Kerr...big unit who has a great kick on him.....has to play seniors soon...

Yes. Next week.
Title: Re: 2018 VFL Rd 1: Northern Blues vs Collingwood
Post by: Jack Burton on April 08, 2018, 09:31:09 am
Wouldn't that mean a tall forward has to go out? CCurnow or Casboult?
Title: Re: 2018 VFL Rd 1: Northern Blues vs Collingwood
Post by: sandsmere on April 08, 2018, 09:39:40 am
Wouldn't that mean a tall forward has to go out? CCurnow or Casboult?

No. Play Charlie further up the ground.

The forward line is where we are failing badly. We are not bad  with inside 50's but can't kick goals once the ball is up there.
Title: Re: 2018 VFL Rd 1: Northern Blues vs Collingwood
Post by: Jack Burton on April 08, 2018, 09:41:03 am
Agree with that, but isn't Charlie leading our goalkicking? And showing the most promise for kicking goals for us?
Title: Re: 2018 VFL Rd 1: Northern Blues vs Collingwood
Post by: Baggers on April 08, 2018, 10:38:10 am
The problem on Friday night re goal kicking wasn't the big blokes, it was a poor contribution from our small forwards and mids.
Title: Re: 2018 VFL Rd 1: Northern Blues vs Collingwood
Post by: flyboy77 on April 08, 2018, 10:57:05 am
The I50 stat is a BS stat if all the entries are terrible....as ours are.
Title: Re: 2018 VFL Rd 1: Northern Blues vs Collingwood
Post by: kruddler on April 08, 2018, 11:12:03 am
Wouldn't that mean a tall forward has to go out? CCurnow or Casboult?

Bringing in Kerr is equivalent to play SOSOS.

So we'd just go back to Casboult, Curnowfides and Kerr....a relatively standard forwardline setup.
Title: Re: 2018 VFL Rd 1: Northern Blues vs Collingwood
Post by: cookie2 on April 08, 2018, 11:17:37 am
Bringing in Kerr is equivalent to play SOSOS.

So we'd just go back to Casboult, Curnowfides and Kerr....a relatively standard forwardline setup.

I would like to see us try that combination.
Title: Re: 2018 VFL Rd 1: Northern Blues vs Collingwood
Post by: northernblue on April 08, 2018, 11:50:51 am
The I50 stat is a BS stat if all the entries are terrible....as ours are.

All stats are BS... that’s why you evaluate them.


Edit:
But the stats are still valid as a reference point.
Title: Re: 2018 VFL Rd 1: Northern Blues vs Collingwood
Post by: LP on April 08, 2018, 11:58:28 am
Bringing in Kerr is equivalent to play SOSOS.

So we'd just go back to Casboult, Curnowfides and Kerr....a relatively standard forwardline setup.

Get rid of Casboult then and play Curnow, Kerr and SoJ.

If Casboult is going to take a free ride and let Charlie do all the heavy lifting, then Casboult may as well not be there, the only problem then becomes the ruck but Casboult isn't such a loss anyway! ;)

Get Casboult into the 2s and have him take some front position, let him do what the big blokes are supposed to do. If we intend to let him just keep launching form the back of the pack why don't we replace him with a Liam Ryan type, same job and same result except you have a player who'll actually chase down defenders. Why not just give Garlett license to jump like an idiot 20 times a game, same job same result!
Title: Re: 2018 VFL Rd 1: Northern Blues vs Collingwood
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on April 08, 2018, 12:24:31 pm
Bringing in Kerr is equivalent to play SOSOS.

So we'd just go back to Casboult, Curnowfides and Kerr....a relatively standard forwardline setup.


Kerr is a specialist KP player, he is a much bigger unit, better kick and plays a traditional KP game....nothing like SOSOS who is a 3rd tall forward who has even been run through the midfield in the twos.

Yep lets try a traditional setup for a change....why because the present setup is useless and we have been smacked by teams who are garbage..

We are a tiny little schoolboy team which lacks size, is intimidated every week and go to water when the heat gets applied, we need a traditional setup IMO, the little forward line full of choir boys
hasnt worked like Richmonds setup and its time to try different things...let other teams find three tall defenders, Kerr might straighten up some of our mids and give us some better system, he might not.
I'd rather see Kerr and Harry leading the goalkicking at years end than Matthew Wright and Levi again and another bottom four finish again.....
Title: Re: 2018 VFL Rd 1: Northern Blues vs Collingwood
Post by: townsendcalling on April 08, 2018, 12:41:05 pm
3 talls + 1 link + 2 smalls haven’t hurt Adelaide. SOJ needs to build a tank and become our Tom Lynch, the connector.  Lead up, distribute, don’t worry about pack marks etc. Garrett, Pickett, Fisher, Wright at the feet.

One proviso..... on ballers must hit the scoreboard too.
Title: Re: 2018 VFL Rd 1: Northern Blues vs Collingwood
Post by: LP on April 08, 2018, 12:48:54 pm
3 talls + 1 link + 2 smalls haven’t hurt Adelaide. SOJ needs to build a tank and become our Tom Lynch, the connector.  Lead up, distribute, don’t worry about pack marks etc. Garrett, Pickett, Fisher, Wright at the feet.

One proviso..... on ballers must hit the scoreboard too.

SoJ has no hope of becoming Tom Lynch(Crows), I think you are looking at SoJ through rose coloured glasses, he's half the speed, aerobic capacity and agility of the Crows version. No matter how hard to try if you do not have the right physiology you'll never get to the same aerobic capacity.

Perhaps our best chance of having a Tom Lynch(Crows) type player is Marchbank.

I think SoJ should reset himself to learn the midfield and become a Pendlebury type player allowing Cripps to spend more time as a F50 marking target. I think Carey was right, Cripps is great inside when he wins the ball but if he doesn't he is too slow and opposition players run off him and hurt us week after week. SoJ could be a better mix for that inside player and has a bit more pace than Cripps, as long as fans do not expect SoJ to be Cripps it could well work.

There is still room for this type of player in the game, but you have to have a game plan that suits them. What is the point of us having a fast break high speed game plan with a team loaded with Casboult, Wright, Daisy, Cripps, Curnow, Curnow, SoJ, Weitering and Kennedy. They are all sub-par on pace or agility! Some posters will think I'm being harsh on Charlie, but watch the first few games, despite his success he gets stuff all separation from defenders because he doesn't have the top speed. If he not continuously taking ridiculous numbers of contested marks he's going to be in big trouble as a KPF, because that form cannot last it won't see you through a season.
Title: Re: 2018 VFL Rd 1: Northern Blues vs Collingwood
Post by: Lods on April 08, 2018, 01:09:56 pm
Some posters will think I'm being harsh on Charlie, but watch the first few games, despite his success he gets stuff all separation from defenders because he doesn't have the top speed. If he not continuously taking ridiculous numbers of contested marks he's going to be in big trouble as a KPF, because that form cannot last it won't see you through a season.

What Curnow does have I suspect is the "Curnow" tank and as his quicker opponents get tired and slow down he'll "keep on keeping on".
As he develops he'll dominate games at the finish.
Title: Re: 2018 VFL Rd 1: Northern Blues vs Collingwood
Post by: Gointocarlton on April 08, 2018, 01:13:28 pm
Some posters will think I'm being harsh on Charlie, but watch the first few games, despite his success he gets stuff all separation from defenders because he doesn't have the top speed. If he not continuously taking ridiculous numbers of contested marks he's going to be in big trouble as a KPF, because that form cannot last it won't see you through a season.
If he ran (full pelt) to the right spot and our players delivered in front of him (instead of on his head) to the right spot, he would mark alot more and kick a lot more goals. Because of his probable lack of confidence in those delivering, he has to stop, prop etc.
Title: Re: 2018 VFL Rd 1: Northern Blues vs Collingwood
Post by: LP on April 08, 2018, 01:15:34 pm
What Curnow does have I suspect is the "Curnow" tank and as his quicker opponents get tired and slow down he'll "keep on keeping on".
As he develops he'll dominate games at the finish.

I agree Lods, but you have to resign yourself to remaining in games at the finish and having close finishes in the end that allow him to deliver a benefit.

Our current games are over by half-time, and I don't see that improving while we retain some of the current players!

Is it an accident that a bunch of them seem to come good after half-time when the match is pretty much over, in pressure off time?

Charlie needs some fair dinkum support, not the Bullcrap Football he is getting played around him now!
Title: Re: 2018 VFL Rd 1: Northern Blues vs Collingwood
Post by: crashlander on April 08, 2018, 02:41:55 pm
Sadly, that's the feeling I got in the second quarter.
But all is not lost because there were patches of the game that didn't reflect that.

A win or two and things change pretty quickly....but boy do we need that win or two. ::)
Absolutely!
Title: Re: 2018 VFL Rd 1: Northern Blues vs Collingwood
Post by: LP on April 08, 2018, 02:54:14 pm
Sadly, that's the feeling I got in the second quarter.
But all is not lost because there were patches of the game that didn't reflect that.

A win or two and things change pretty quickly....but boy do we need that win or two. ::)

This stinks, but it seems to be up to the beginners to make this happen!

I can't wait for Williamson and Macreadie to be back in, and for Kerr to get a run. We need some blokes who push back, even if some think they are only making up the numbers in the short term! If they have the right attitude I'll back them in!

I don't want any more of our soft-cock club lambasting the talent because they get drunk and tip over the High Tea Cart, it's forking footballers I want! I don't want priority given to guys who look nice on the red carpet, speak like Nobel Laureates at functions or are loved by teenage girls everywhere!

I don't want the bloke that stops and helps the grandma across the road, I want the guy who drives over her to get to training on time, and gets credit for calling the ambulance like Luke Hodge! I want some freaking footballers!

Are we a football club? What do we want to be, the NAAFI, an all male review or the freaking army!

I'm half expecting us to run out for the next game in drag with panstick painted faces!
Title: Re: 2018 VFL Rd 1: Northern Blues vs Collingwood
Post by: PaulP on April 11, 2018, 09:15:55 am
http://www.afl.com.au/news/2018-04-11/ayres-worries-gulf-may-widen-between-vfl-clubs
Title: Re: 2018 VFL Rd 1: Northern Blues vs Collingwood
Post by: LP on April 11, 2018, 12:42:31 pm
Nice report on the club website again this week.

Sounds like in relation to forwards only Kerr and Silvagni would be a chance.

I notice Graham is now being extended with more time forward, although it reads like most of his influence came on-ball like Kerridge. But ball use and team balance seems to be an issue across the board.
Title: Re: 2018 VFL Rd 1: Northern Blues vs Collingwood
Post by: laj on April 11, 2018, 12:48:28 pm
SoJ has no hope of becoming Tom Lynch(Crows), I think you are looking at SoJ through rose coloured glasses, he's half the speed, aerobic capacity and agility of the Crows version. No matter how hard to try if you do not have the right physiology you'll never get to the same aerobic capacity.

Perhaps our best chance of having a Tom Lynch(Crows) type player is Marchbank.

I think SoJ should reset himself to learn the midfield and become a Pendlebury type player allowing Cripps to spend more time as a F50 marking target. I think Carey was right, Cripps is great inside when he wins the ball but if he doesn't he is too slow and opposition players run off him and hurt us week after week. SoJ could be a better mix for that inside player and has a bit more pace than Cripps, as long as fans do not expect SoJ to be Cripps it could well work.

There is still room for this type of player in the game, but you have to have a game plan that suits them. What is the point of us having a fast break high speed game plan with a team loaded with Casboult, Wright, Daisy, Cripps, Curnow, Curnow, SoJ, Weitering and Kennedy. They are all sub-par on pace or agility! Some posters will think I'm being harsh on Charlie, but watch the first few games, despite his success he gets stuff all separation from defenders because he doesn't have the top speed. If he not continuously taking ridiculous numbers of contested marks he's going to be in big trouble as a KPF, because that form cannot last it won't see you through a season.

Jack did quite of bit of inside midfield in the last VFL practice match and did ok apparently.
Title: Re: 2018 VFL Rd 1: Northern Blues vs Collingwood
Post by: LP on April 11, 2018, 12:57:01 pm
Jack did quite of bit of inside midfield in the last VFL practice match and did ok apparently.

It could be horrible for SoJ and for some other dedicated midfielder if resources were allocated to SoJ without merit, the other players would pick up on that and he'd possibly become isolated, because it wouldn't be perceived as a level playing field.

If we start creating roles for the named players I cannot see how that will end up working.

As long as his potential is genuine and he's not just getting the opportunity beaus of his name. We can only surmise that ability, but the coaches will know the answer, I think someone like Brodie or BB would have to make the call without SOS involvement.

I don't want the kid to be a place holder based on his name, I want him to prove to everyone he can be successful in his own right like Ablett Jnr. Unfortunately it probably means he has to exceed expectations.
Title: Re: 2018 VFL Rd 1: Northern Blues vs Collingwood
Post by: PaulP on April 11, 2018, 01:08:16 pm
Works his butt off, loves the jumper, good skills, quick thinking good footy brain, slow as treacle, limited athleticism, and a big body. Perfect for us as an inside mid, provided he and Cripps are flanked by some pacy types.

Come on CFC, stop f%^#ing around. Make it happen.

And I'm talking about Jack.
Title: Re: 2018 VFL Rd 1: Northern Blues vs Collingwood
Post by: LP on April 11, 2018, 01:11:17 pm
Works his butt off, loves the jumper, good skills, quick thinking good footy brain, slow as treacle, limited athleticism, and a big body. Perfect for us as an inside mid, provided he and Cripps are flanked by some pacy types.

Come on CFC, stop f%^#ing around. Make it happen.

And I'm talking about Jack.

On current trends there are about 20 to 30 mids of that type in each years draft, the main difference between them being pace, it's no good him being average at it he has to excel! ;)
Title: Re: 2018 VFL Rd 1: Northern Blues vs Collingwood
Post by: PaulP on April 11, 2018, 01:24:54 pm
On current trends there are about 20 to 30 mids of that type in each years draft, the main difference between them being pace, it's no good him being average at it he has to excel! ;)

We need bigger bodies around the contest, we've tried Graham, Kerridge etc. He's already on our list, we're not going anywhere this season, why not give it a go ?
Title: Re: 2018 VFL Rd 1: Northern Blues vs Collingwood
Post by: Thryleon on April 11, 2018, 01:32:41 pm
It could be horrible for SoJ and for some other dedicated midfielder if resources were allocated to SoJ without merit, the other players would pick up on that and he'd possibly become isolated, because it wouldn't be perceived as a level playing field.

If we start creating roles for the named players I cannot see how that will end up working.

As long as his potential is genuine and he's not just getting the opportunity beaus of his name. We can only surmise that ability, but the coaches will know the answer, I think someone like Brodie or BB would have to make the call without SOS involvement.

I don't want the kid to be a place holder based on his name, I want him to prove to everyone he can be successful in his own right like Ablett Jnr. Unfortunately it probably means he has to exceed expectations.

Without wanting to jump at shadows, it appears as though all of our players are getting this sort of add a string to their bow treatment.

Jones went back and into the ruck last year.
Weitering went forward last year.
Cripps forward in bursts this year.
Casboult into the ruck for longer bursts this year.
Defenders are pushing up the ground more this year (partly necessary, but might have been on schedule).
JSOS to the midfield in the magoos is how they would want to do it ideally, but it looks as though we have had our issues plugging holes for injured players and are having to fast track things a bit.
Polson has gone from mid to small forward (without proving he's effective at either yet).
Wright has played on ball in sports.
Daisy has continued being rotated between half back/wing/Mid/Half forward (his first goal against Gold Coast was pushing forward from the wing).

Only some of the kids are specialists in one role at the moment, and of those we are talking about those who are still sorting out what their go is or have been at the club for less than a couple of seasons, and talking about the likes of Charlie Curnow.  I actually think that Jsos has played his part without being spectacular as a lead up forward, and perhaps it was part of his developement plan to go into the midfield, because if he can't do that, we end up with a one dimensional medium player who could do something in time.

Jack's got a few things on others competing for spots.

1.  He bleeeds blue.
2.  He has football smarts.

If people think hes only getting a game on his name, then they arent watching and IMHO, arent worth listening to.
Title: Re: 2018 VFL Rd 1: Northern Blues vs Collingwood
Post by: LP on April 11, 2018, 03:57:43 pm
We need bigger bodies around the contest, we've tried Graham, Kerridge etc. He's already on our list, we're not going anywhere this season, why not give it a go ?

Not just bigger, faster bodies as well, people who can chase and compete when we do not get first hands on the ball.

Without wanting to jump at shadows, it appears as though all of our players are getting this sort of add a string to their bow treatment.
.
.
.
Jack's got a few things on others competing for spots.

1.  He bleeds blue.
2.  He has football smarts.

If people think hes only getting a game on his name, then they arent watching and IMHO, arent worth listening to.

I agree Thry.

But I wouldn't say SoJ has midfield smarts that are greater than Kennedy, Cripps, C.Curnow, Kerridge, etc., etc.. The type of mid he competes with directly for a spot. Right at the moment I think SoJ lacks core strength relative to those players, Kerridge has disposal issues but wins heaps of football, Charlie is needed up forward, Kennedy and Cripps are specialists.

I'm assuming SoJ will not be in competition with smaller mids like Murphy, SPS, Fisher, Dow, Graham, E.Curnow, O'Brien, etc., etc.. I appreciate Dow and O'Brien are still potentially growing and both could also end up in the high 180cm range.
Title: Re: 2018 VFL Rd 1: Northern Blues vs Collingwood
Post by: PaulP on April 11, 2018, 04:04:18 pm
Not just bigger, faster bodies as well, people who can chase and compete when we do not get first hands on the ball.

Yes, big, fast, skilful, good footy brain, calm under pressure etc........ I want Fyfe, Martin and Dangerfield as well. But for now, we can only choose from whomever is on our list.
Title: Re: 2018 VFL Rd 1: Northern Blues vs Collingwood
Post by: LP on April 11, 2018, 04:14:29 pm
Yes, big, fast, skilful, good footy brain, calm under pressure etc........ I want Fyfe, Martin and Dangerfield as well. But for now, we can only choose from whomever is on our list.

That is my point PaulP, do you spend resources and time preparing/converting someone into a role from which they will ultimately be replaced?

Wouldn't it be better for SoJ if he was allowed to use his time to develop his HFF / 3rd Tall craft?

Could SoJ be our Jack Darling type, more mobile than a typical KPF yet heavier and stronger than a typical utility? Tough match up if we get it right!
Title: Re: 2018 VFL Rd 1: Northern Blues vs Collingwood
Post by: PaulP on April 11, 2018, 04:28:14 pm
That is my point PaulP, do you spend resources and time preparing/converting someone into a role from which they will ultimately be replaced?

Wouldn't it be better for SoJ if he was allowed to use his time to develop his HFF / 3rd Tall craft?

Could SoJ be our Jack Darling type, more mobile than a typical KPF yet heavier and stronger than a typical utility? Tough match up if we get it right!

If the club is fair dinkum about developing multiple role players, then the time/resources will be invested in Jack anyway. All I'm saying is that in a nothing season with a dearth of midfield depth, it should be tried.

Our Jack is a more rounded footballer than Darling, who to me seems limited to being a forward. But I don't watch the Weagles that much, so I can't comment much beyond that.
Title: Re: 2018 VFL Rd 1: Northern Blues vs Collingwood
Post by: LP on April 11, 2018, 04:30:09 pm
All I'm saying is that in a nothing season with a dearth of midfield depth, it should be tried.

I think he should be tried too!

But I don't think we have a dearth of that type of midfield player though, I think we have too many of that type already! :o

We seem to have a sh1tload of blokes who can win it in tight, and bugger all capable of distribution or breakaway! It's no accident we rushed Dow in, but it's a puzzle we set him up as a tagger!

Ignoring SoJ for the moment, from the Dow perspective, are we obsessed with teaching blokes a role they are least equipped to fill?
Title: Re: 2018 VFL Rd 1: Northern Blues vs Collingwood
Post by: PaulP on April 11, 2018, 04:47:43 pm
I think he should be tried too!

But I don't think we have a dearth of that type of midfield player though, I think we have too many of that type already! :o

We seem to have a sh1tload of blokes who can win it in tight, and bugger all capable of distribution or breakaway! It's no accident we rushed Dow in, but it's a puzzle we set him up as a tagger!

Ignoring SoJ for the moment, from the Dow perspective, are we obsessed with teaching blokes a role they are least equipped to fill?

No real comment from me on Dow, as I haven't seen enough of him. In principle, I don't have a problem getting him to tag some of the better mids, to get up and close and see how they go about it. But not to make a career out of it.

It's about midfield depth. If Cripps is injured, we're royally screwed. If kreuzer is injured we could just about forfeit the game. If Curnow is injured, we're slightly less screwed. Kennedy hasn't played enough for me to know what he can do. So having someone else who can competently go through the guts is no bad thing in my book.

Title: Re: 2018 VFL Rd 1: Northern Blues vs Collingwood
Post by: Thryleon on April 11, 2018, 04:50:07 pm
Novel Ideas to think about:

My current workplace is one that encourages people to choose their own journey in their working career.  This means that on an annual basis we have a review, we have a look at our strengths, we have a look at our weaknesses, what can be done to close those gaps and then to go with it where we are in our careers, where we ultimately want to end up, and how we can best support people to transition to their end goal in the current environment and what outside help we can be found if the resources don't exist at the workplace to setup that sort of environment where people are encouraged to learn and grow.

From the outset, they encourage people to explore what they want to, and they also state that its fine to continue doing what you do if that's what you want to do.

Now, apply that methodology to a footballer.

Just because you are learning how to do "another job" doesn't mean you are no longer going to be doing your current job at your organisation, and usually you will learn a few things that will help you perform your current role much better than you currently do (i.e. Jack might be able to be more damaging at forward stoppages, playing as an additional midfielder might help setup the scoring opportunity, or even prevent a fast break due to understanding how to defend a stoppage better).

Lastly, that doesn't mean hes perfected his current craft.  What I do think that Jack's developement is more about physiology rather than brains, and thats why hes currently learning a different role.

He might never transition to a midfielder, but in the event he needs to do a Liam Jones later on in his career because he is 4th banana in the forward line, he will have picked up the required game plan smarts to transition faster, and cover a loss quicker which could lengthen his career and increase his value to our footy club.

Now, I could very well be overestimating whats going on here, and it might be more like the average sunday league football side, where people rock up on game day, after having done a couple of training sessions, where all that matters is how well a bloke kicks the footy and cracks in, but that doesn't quite work for me for a bloke who comes out of the Hawthorn enviornment with a heavy focus on learning your role and player development.
Title: Re: 2018 VFL Rd 1: Northern Blues vs Collingwood
Post by: LP on April 11, 2018, 05:00:43 pm
Novel Ideas to think about:

My current workplace is one that encourages people to choose their own journey in their working career.  This means that on an annual basis we have a review, we have a look at our strengths, we have a look at our weaknesses, what can be done to close those gaps and then to go with it where we are in our careers, where we ultimately want to end up, and how we can best support people to transition to their end goal in the current environment and what outside help we can be found if the resources don't exist at the workplace to setup that sort of environment where people are encouraged to learn and grow.

From the outset, they encourage people to explore what they want to, and they also state that its fine to continue doing what you do if that's what you want to do.

I'd like to explore the remote operation of a robotic substitute as part of income sharing scheme, I'll be based in Fiji!

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/5/55/King-Size_Homer.png/225px-King-Size_Homer.png)(https://tstoaddicts.files.wordpress.com/2015/11/2015-11-23-01-37-14-e1448244478363.png)(https://media.giphy.com/media/l41lUJ1YoZB1lHVPG/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: 2018 VFL Rd 1: Northern Blues vs Collingwood
Post by: Lods on April 11, 2018, 05:37:36 pm
Now, I could very well be overestimating whats going on here, and it might be more like the average sunday league football side, where people rock up on game day, after having done a couple of training sessions, where all that matters is how well a bloke kicks the footy and cracks in, but that doesn't quite work for me for a bloke who comes out of the Hawthorn enviornment with a heavy focus on learning your role and player development.

Actually one of the things that could makes sense to me about how we're going at the moment is that it's all about experimentation and  trying folks in multiple roles before we nail down regular positions.

"One soldier out-one in" is much easier if the replacements can fill multiple roles at a pinch.

Some are learning at senior level, others like McKay and Kerr are being given extended time at the lower level, and others are getting a mix.

If that's the game he's playing it makes Bolton one cool customer because you tread a fine line between performance and development.
It's a risky strategy

Title: Re: 2018 VFL Rd 1: Northern Blues vs Collingwood
Post by: Baggers on April 11, 2018, 06:22:41 pm
Works his butt off, loves the jumper, good skills, quick thinking good footy brain, slow as treacle, limited athleticism, and a big body. Perfect for us as an inside mid, provided he and Cripps are flanked by some pacy types.

Come on CFC, stop f%^#ing around. Make it happen.

And I'm talking about Jack.

Actually, Durante Koala, I was thinking the same thing. When I did watch the NBs game (I probably caught a little over half) I was surprised at how SOJ 'hunted' the aggot when on ball - bona fide footy smarts, surprised and impressed. Yes, his body may not yet be up to the rigors of a lot of time in the guts but he aint gonna learn if he aint given a go... and this is the year to do it.
Title: Re: 2018 VFL Rd 1: Northern Blues vs Collingwood
Post by: cookie2 on April 11, 2018, 06:35:23 pm
Actually, Durante Koala, I was thinking the same thing. When I did watch the NBs game (I probably caught a little over half) I was surprised at how SOJ 'hunted' the aggot when on ball - bona fide footy smarts, surprised and impressed. Yes, his body may not yet be up to the rigors of a lot of time in the guts but he aint gonna learn if he aint given a go... and this is the year to do it.

Why not give him a bit of time in 2s to get up to speed on a midfield role? After all he has plenty of time ahead of him, hopefully.
Title: Re: 2018 VFL Rd 1: Northern Blues vs Collingwood
Post by: Professer E on April 11, 2018, 06:41:18 pm
Fast?!?  Not an adjective I'd use for Jack S.
Title: Re: 2018 VFL Rd 1: Northern Blues vs Collingwood
Post by: Baggers on April 11, 2018, 07:27:47 pm
Fast?!?  Not an adjective I'd use for Jack S.

As you no doubt know, Professory, there are two types of speed when it comes to footy - leg speed and footy smarts speed... Jack seems to have the latter.
Title: Re: 2018 VFL Rd 1: Northern Blues vs Collingwood
Post by: Professer E on April 11, 2018, 07:59:37 pm
I agree with you but he must work on his speed over the first few steps.
Title: Re: 2018 VFL Rd 1: Northern Blues vs Collingwood
Post by: crashlander on April 11, 2018, 08:19:45 pm
I agree with you but he must work on his speed over the first few steps.
Absolutely, and work on his reflexes.
Title: Re: 2018 VFL Rd 1: Northern Blues vs Collingwood
Post by: Thryleon on April 12, 2018, 09:38:06 am
I'd like to explore the remote operation of a robotic substitute as part of income sharing scheme, I'll be based in Fiji!

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/5/55/King-Size_Homer.png/225px-King-Size_Homer.png)(https://tstoaddicts.files.wordpress.com/2015/11/2015-11-23-01-37-14-e1448244478363.png)(https://media.giphy.com/media/l41lUJ1YoZB1lHVPG/giphy.gif)


What does this add to the discussion??
Title: Re: 2018 VFL Rd 1: Northern Blues vs Collingwood
Post by: LP on April 12, 2018, 11:05:21 am
What does this add to the discussion??

The whole Simpson's episode was a commentary on the concepts like those in you describe in your workplace, a trend that swept through Silicon Valley years ago. Workplaces offering that sort of environment quickly became the target of less than motivated employees opportunistically gaming the system. It is one of the factors that are said to have contributed to Silicon Valley's mini-crash years ago, and why most surviving organisations have now restructured to limit the scope of employee choice! Out of that also came Hot Desking, which is an accountant  psychopath's solution to the problems the earlier concepts created.

Hot Desking is basically trying to achieve 100% return from a capital resource by ignoring/eliminating the human element as an effect, it is built on the premise that workers can work as much or as little as they like as long as their station is staffed and operating at capacity! It does this at the expense of consistency and quality. What happens is you end up with job sharing and part-time staffing generating massive under-employment and eliminating penalty rates while keeping things running 24x7. It seems attractive to new mother's in particular, until the kids go to school and they find they cannot get full-time work, and their husbands have reduced wages due to the job sharing pressures on the marketplace. Millennials are a particular victim of this.

Either concept might work in some limited scope, but they cannot be generalised.

If you leave a loophole, there will always be someone less altruistic who is willing to do their very best to take advantage of it. If you try something like this with a playing group there is a very high risk just that at some stage one or two individuals could undo your whole construct.

The concepts are great, if the employees are altruistic robots, the type that send you a work email at 3am in the middle of the holiday season.

I don't know about your sector, it's size or scale, I'm not making a comment about where you work.
Title: Re: 2018 VFL Rd 1: Northern Blues vs Collingwood
Post by: Thryleon on April 12, 2018, 12:12:19 pm
The whole Simpson's episode was a commentary on the concepts like those in you describe in your workplace, a trend that swept through Silicon Valley years ago. Workplaces offering that sort of environment quickly became the target of less than motivated employees opportunistically gaming the system. It is one of the factors that are said to have contributed to Silicon Valley's mini-crash years ago, and why most surviving organisations have now restructured to limit the scope of employee choice! Out of that also came Hot Desking, which is an accountant  psychopath's solution to the problems the earlier concepts created.

Hot Desking is basically trying to achieve 100% return from a capital resource by ignoring/eliminating the human element as an effect, it is built on the premise that workers can work as much or as little as they like as long as their station is staffed and operating at capacity! It does this at the expense of consistency and quality. What happens is you end up with job sharing and part-time staffing generating massive under-employment and eliminating penalty rates while keeping things running 24x7. It seems attractive to new mother's in particular, until the kids go to school and they find they cannot get full-time work, and their husbands have reduced wages due to the job sharing pressures on the marketplace. Millennials are a particular victim of this.

Either concept might work in some limited scope, but they cannot be generalised.

If you leave a loophole, there will always be someone less altruistic who is willing to do their very best to take advantage of it. If you try something like this with a playing group there is a very high risk just that at some stage one or two individuals could undo your whole construct.

The concepts are great, if the employees are altruistic robots, the type that send you a work email at 3am in the middle of the holiday season.

I don't know about your sector, it's size or scale, I'm not making a comment about where you work.

What does this add to the discussion regarding developing people in the workplace/and or teaching players a role??

Too many conversations are steering off course, where you change the subject to deflect away from the meat and potatoes of a post, to talk about something a little bit outlandish such as becoming an altruistic robot working in fiji.

Let me simplify this for you a little bit.

If Jack and Brendan have a conversation about Jack's future ability to play AFL football, and his strengths vs his weaknesses putting him in the frame to be a midfielder, and for Jack to actually want to be a midfielder, what is the crap that you are talking about have to do with the price of fish?

Players don't change position on the park without a conversation between coach and player (for reference see Jeremy Laidler vs Mick Malthouse).



Title: Re: 2018 VFL Rd 1: Northern Blues vs Collingwood
Post by: LP on April 12, 2018, 01:08:07 pm
What does this add to the discussion regarding developing people in the workplace/and or teaching players a role??

Too many conversations are steering off course, where you change the subject to deflect away from the meat and potatoes of a post, to talk about something a little bit outlandish such as becoming an altruistic robot working in fiji.

Thry YOU introduced YOUR workplace as an example, not me.

Then after I post a satirical response querying the effectiveness of such a regime, YOU want to point the finger at me for allegedly causing the subject matter to drift onto YOUR workplace scheme!

I'm assuming YOU posted YOUR workplace example with some relevance to the debate, or was it just YOUR attempt at a pisstake?