Carlton Supporters Club

We'll be either 1 win and 2 losses, or 0 wins and 3 losses. I'll cross out the wrong alternative on Saturday, assuming my temper is up to the task.

Do your worst! :)

I hate losing on a friday night.

only started watching very end of Q1, turned it off ten minutes into the second.

We have no spirit.

We won the second half...

4 goals in the end makes it look better than it is. When you think about the Pies outs (several more than I stated earlier) that could have been 10 or 12 goals.

I didn't expect much this season, and we're tracking bang on unfortunately.

shame the gate had slammed shut :-\

only started watching very end of Q1, turned it off ten minutes into the second.

We have no spirit.

2nd half was definitely better. Fight is there. Polish is AWOL, lost in space somewhere.

2nd half was definitely better. Fight is there. Polish is AWOL, lost in space somewhere.

i gather they kicked 9 or 10 unanswered goals?

Last part of the game was junk time , the pace had slowed and 4 goals didnt really do justice to how easy we were outclassed......really ordinary effort IMO because Collingwood like Gold Coast would be in my bottom six teams..

We kicked the first 3 and I am pretty sure that they kicked the next 10.

i gather they kicked 9 or 10 unanswered goals?

sounds about right. We won the 2nd half, if that sort of thing interests you.

i gather they kicked 9 or 10 unanswered goals?

40 odd minutes without a goal will do that. We looked better in the second half. Maybe next week we will show some fight

Fisher, Cripps, casboult our best with c curnow close behind. Both kreuzer and Kennedy looked like they were playing injured and were rushed back. Shows how bare the cupboard is.

I've tipped us 3 times and well......
I hereby pledge to stop my bad habit ::)

40 odd minutes without a goal will do that. We looked better in the second half. Maybe next week we will show some fight

Fisher, Cripps, casboult our best with c curnow close behind. Both kreuzer and Kennedy looked like they were playing injured and were rushed back. Shows how bare the cupboard is.

Thought Pendlebury did the job on Cripps...they wanted to stop Cripps at the clearances and they did...

Simpson, Fisher and Casboult best IMO...Kruezer tried hard but Grundy was a force for Collingwood.....

We just lack any poise or true confidence which translates into poor skills execution, panic and running around in circles. I can only think that we are just mightily confused as to zoning and roles. It's anybody's guess as to whether we can work through this - the only little ray of light is that we played the game right out - this could easily have turned into a 10+ goal drubbing. Small consolation I know.

Always tip against us...otherwise you get doubly frustrated.  In the rare cases where we win, the glow of winning over rides the lost tip - and nobody else would have tipped us so you don't lose out anyway.

Always tip against us...otherwise you get doubly frustrated.  In the rare cases where we win, the glow of winning over rides the lost tip - and nobody else would have tipped us so you don't lose out anyway.

Thanks for the tip prof ;)

If that's what Bolton calls firing up the troops, he won't be there in July.

Just saying.....

It took Buckley 10 minutes to work us out and then it was game over. We made the same mistake as what we did in round 1, we didn't get defensive when we started losing  momentum. Bolton's game plan is starting to look a little like Matthew Knights and there's no plan b.

Like an explanation of why Cameron Polson is in the team?.....ludicrous selection last week and more so this week.....

Can anyone enlighten me as to what role Lamb and Mullet are supposed to be playing. 3 games in a row they have provided nothing at all - in terms of possessions, scoring, pressure. I just cannot understand why a hard running bloke like Kerridge can’t get a game when we are so thin in the middle and cannot lay a tackle to save ourselves.

Without Doc our backline leaks like a sieve. Plowman, Jones & Weitering have been massively exposed in the last 3 weeks.

And our general skills and fumbling is simply embarrassing.

Can anyone enlighten me as to what role Lamb and Mulletare supposed to be playing. 3 games in a row they have provided nothing at all - in terms of possessions, scoring, pressure. I just cannot understand why a hard running bloke like Kerridge can’t get a game when we are so thin in the middle and cannot lay a tackle to save ourselves.

Without Doc our backline leaks like a sieve. Plowman, Jones & Weitering have been massively exposed in the last 3 weeks.

And our general skills and fumbling is simply embarrassing.

Maybe someone can enlighten them?

It took Buckley 10 minutes to work us out and then it was game over. We made the same mistake as what we did in round 1, we didn't get defensive when we started losing  momentum. Bolton's game plan is starting to look a little like Matthew Knights and there's no plan b.

Bolton is an educator, not a match day coach or master tactician , he is still a novice coach and it remains to be seen whether he is just another very good assistant who will fall short at senior level.
My wife who knows nothing about football said why do your players kick it to No 25 of Collingwood all the time and why doesnt he have anyone playing near him......???

Time to send Jones, Polson, Lamb, Weitering and young Paddy back to the magoos. I don't care who they bring in because at least they would have to have a dip.

Running out of patience with the coach, Rats at least had a concept of a plan "B" . Can somebody remind me why we sacked Rats by the way....

Season over. Thought everything was Mick Malthouse's fault?

Can anyone enlighten me as to what role Lamb and Mullet are supposed to be playing. 3 games in a row they have provided nothing at all - in terms of possessions, scoring, pressure. I just cannot understand why a hard running bloke like Kerridge can’t get a game when we are so thin in the middle and cannot lay a tackle to save ourselves.

Without Doc our backline leaks like a sieve. Plowman, Jones & Weitering have been massively exposed in the last 3 weeks.

And our general skills and fumbling is simply embarrassing.

Lamb is picked for his niggle but a rough nut like Maynard wasnt the right opponent...
Mullett is in the team for his kicking skills but cant get the ball or defend....Brad Scott told us why he was let go, we didnt listen...
Kerridge wouldnt be any use vs Sidebottom, Pendlebury etc ...they are a class above our players.....Ed is a very good tagger but SS slaughtered him......

Time to send Jones, Polson, Lamb, Weitering and young Paddy back to the magoos. I don't care who they bring in because at least they would have to have a dip.

Running out of patience with the coach, Rats at least had a concept of a plan "B" . Can somebody remind me why we sacked Rats by the way....

Crap coach apparently..............

only started watching very end of Q1, turned it off ten minutes into the second.

We have no spirit.

Well how TF do we get this spirit???!!!

Well how TF do we get this spirit???!!!

Leadership....lack of mature bodies.....

29 Disposals
11 Contested
75.9 Disposal Efficency
9 Marks
8 Tackles
7 Inside 50's

That just doesn't cut it.   Back to the 2's

29 Disposals
11 Contested
75.9 Disposal Efficency
9 Marks
8 Tackles
7 Inside 50's

That just doesn't cut it.   Back to the 2's


whose stat's?????

Probably Murphy's....plenty of the ball etc etc but not much effect on the game, remember Dane Swan having 44 one day and Malthouse not rating his game....it can happen...

That would make sense, Murphy every week fails to inspire

They scored 64 points to 3 in a 40 minute burst. It’s hard to conceive how we could be so poor at putting pressure on around the ball or in defence.

The simple fact is as a football club we are slipping slowly but surely into abject irrelevance. We are spiritless and spineless and the story of our demise is not even interesting in the media anymore. The rest of the competition expects an insipid performance most weeks and that’s what we consistently deliver. And the worst thing for me is I have an 8 year old son who loves his footy and the Blues who has to sit through that crap week after week. It’s heartbreaking to watch a team I loved watching as a kid turned into such a shell of its former self and their is only years more of pain on the horizon.

Going through it myself mate,  kids are giving up on footy, can't understand why I hurt so much over it.

My ten year old son asked me tonight if we could change teams............

We kicked the first 3 and I am pretty sure that they kicked the next 10.

Fact

And let's not forget in the corresponding game in 2017 (rd 7):

Collingwood 8.8 (56)
Carlton 12.7 (79)

We wanted to rebuild the long way so take the pain that comes with it. We all wanted the club to go to the draft and invest in kids and not take the quick fix approach. Well that sort of rebuild is slow and painful.

All those saying we need mature bodies, drop the kids and bring in Rowe, Asos, Kerridge etc make me laugh.

Then next week we will hear why are we playing those sorts, their slow, their spuds and not part of our future and why not get games into the kids

Weitering, SPS, Charlie, Cunningham, Fisher, Dow, Kennedy etc I’m very confident will all make it but give them time guys FFS.

We are 2 years and 3 games into this. No where near enough time to be so dramatic about performances like tonight.

They scored 64 points to 3 in a 40 minute burst. It’s hard to conceive how we could be so poor at putting pressure on around the ball or in defence.

The simple fact is as a football club we are slipping slowly but surely into abject irrelevance. We are spiritless and spineless and the story of our demise is not even interesting in the media anymore. The rest of the competition expects an insipid performance most weeks and that’s what we consistently deliver. And the worst thing for me is I have an 8 year old son who loves his footy and the Blues who has to sit through that crap week after week. It’s heartbreaking to watch a team I loved watching as a kid turned into such a shell of its former self and their is only years more of pain on the horizon.

Yes, it's starting to feel like a long, lingering and painful death. I went along last Sat and was tortured and again tonight watching on tv. I'm actually starting to dread our games! Tbh, footy is the only sport I watch now and I'm rapidly losing interest even in that. Seriously thinking of taking an extended break from it - it's bringing me down.

Just got a dose of perspective, our gold medalist weightlifter, just told of her 19 year old cousin who died in a car accident last week......

It is after all just a game, filth or not.

We wanted to rebuild the long way so take the pain that comes with it. We all wanted the club to go to the draft and invest in kids and not take the quick fix approach. Well that sort of rebuild is slow and painful.

All those saying we need mature bodies, drop the kids and bring in Rowe, Asos, Kerridge etc make me laugh.

Then next week we will hear why are we playing those sorts, their slow, their spuds and not part of our future and why not get games into the kids

Weitering, SPS, Charlie, Cunningham, Fisher, Dow, Kennedy etc I’m very confident will all make it but give them time guys FFS.

We are 2 years and 3 games into this. No where near enough time to be so dramatic about performances like tonight.

I partially agree, however we can’t tolerate a lack of effort, nor can we sit quietly and watch players like Lamb and Polson getting a game, while Jack Silvagni sits in the VFL

We wanted to rebuild the long way so take the pain that comes with it. We all wanted the club to go to the draft and invest in kids and not take the quick fix approach. Well that sort of rebuild is slow and painful.

All those saying we need mature bodies, drop the kids and bring in Rowe, Asos, Kerridge etc make me laugh.

Then next week we will hear why are we playing those sorts, their slow, their spuds and not part of our future and why not get games into the kids

Weitering, SPS, Charlie, Cunningham, Fisher, Dow, Kennedy etc I’m very confident will all make it but give them time guys FFS.

We are 2 years and 3 games into this. No where near enough time to be so dramatic about performances like tonight.

I think that's a reasonable observation Shawny but I think many of us are battle weary after so many wilderness years - hard to be very positive without some kind of encouraging improvements being at least visible sometimes.

I get the play youth thing, but I don't think Polson or Dow for that matter, are ready for AFL. Particularly in the absence of a core of quality players. I'm also unconvinced Kennedy was ready to return. 

At this point Mullet gets a no from me. Lamb gives too little and burns his teammates. I know our injuries are taking a toll leaving limited options.

Garlett played with intensity again. He'll be a player when he's built his tank a bit more. Little Zac was hard at it again. What's with those guerillas slamming his head into the turf. Commentary was nauseating saying how caring Sidebottom was after doing just that  >:(

Casbolt was one of our best. I thought he was going to kick 5 there for a while. I'll settle for 4 though. He was ok in the ruck against a very good ruckman. I got excited when he threw his weight around too. Haven't seen stats but he certainly wrapped his big paws around a few pies. If not technically a tackle, would be enough to spook the ballhandler.

Charlie, Crippa, Simmo, MK, and Murph were solid IMO.  Samo didn't seem to be able to get into the game but persisted. Shame that Marchy was injured - hope it's not serious. Jonesy worked hard but looked lost when the smaller guys were forward.  I thought Weiters did everything to get himself back into it physically but struggled a bit with decision making.

Lots of work to do - not so much to work with.
Hopefully there's some others who can step up and hold their own.

Just got a dose of perspective, our gold medalist weightlifter, just told of her 19 year old cousin who died in a car accident last week......

It is after all just a game, filth or not.

I've got plenty of perspective in my life atm, believe me!

Clubs finishing 1-3 spots above us on the ladder must love it. We take away all the angst and stress of potentially picking a dud draftee.

5 more I50s, 1 more scoring shot and we lose >:( >:(
We had our chances, the number of time we delivered it inside 50 only to hit up one of their defenders was insane.
The second qtr was disgraceful. 10 Unanswered goals just should not happen. I though we got ourselves back in it in a strange kid of way, won the 3rd and 4th qtrs but the damage was done in the 2nd. Losing Marchy didnt help. Gutted to lose, young kids need to step up more. Liked a few things Cunners did. Simmo appeared to play on Varcoe for abit but was too slow. 3 times, Varcoe to Hoskin Elliott, 3 goals. Im tipping Josh Thomas will never kick 5 goals again. How Mason Cox gets a game is beyond me, perhaps I just dont understand the modern game.
 

Our forward and midfield pressure is non existent.all 3 games this year the opposition have killed us on the rebound with every week getting worse.

Sounds like the played Kennedy when he wasn't fit (recovered)?

ED and Special K certainly looked and sounded gutted in the post match interviews....

Sounds like the played Kennedy when he wasn't fit (recovered)?

He certainly had an off night IMO. Be that not fit or otherwise.

Hey everybody ! Why so glum ?

The game was lost in the 2nd q, plus the last 10 minutes of the first. Other than that, we were competitive.

More inside 50's, 1 more scoring shot, virtually equal contested possessions, won the clearances. Translation ? We are getting enough ball, and moving it to the right place. The problem as I see it is twofold :
1. the process of moving the ball to where we want it is inefficient and error filled (turnovers, missed handballs etc.) This needs to be cleaned up asap.
2. Once the ball is where we want it, it comes out far too quickly. Translation ? Lack of defensive pressure in the F50. This also needs to be fixed asap. 

We wanted to rebuild the long way so take the pain that comes with it. We all wanted the club to go to the draft and invest in kids and not take the quick fix approach. Well that sort of rebuild is slow and painful.

All those saying we need mature bodies, drop the kids and bring in Rowe, Asos, Kerridge etc make me laugh.

Then next week we will hear why are we playing those sorts, their slow, their spuds and not part of our future and why not get games into the kids

Weitering, SPS, Charlie, Cunningham, Fisher, Dow, Kennedy etc I’m very confident will all make it but give them time guys FFS.

We are 2 years and 3 games into this. No where near enough time to be so dramatic about performances like tonight.

Generally agree Shawny. Team selection is partly about blooding youth, match ups, giving certain players the benefit of the doubt, some Bolton / SOS witchcraft, and also injuries. Pickett, Willio, Doc, Lang would be handy additions right about now.

. The problem as I see it is twofold :
1. the process of moving the ball to where we want it is inefficient and error filled (turnovers, missed handballs etc.) This needs to be cleaned up asap.
2. Once the ball is where we want it, it comes out far too quickly. Translation ? Lack of defensive pressure in the F50. This also needs to be fixed asap. 

Spot on.

I get the play youth thing, but I don't think Polson or Dow for that matter, are ready for AFL. Particularly in the absence of a core of quality players. I'm also unconvinced Kennedy was ready to return. 

At this point Mullet gets a no from me. Lamb gives too little and burns his teammates. I know our injuries are taking a toll leaving limited options.

Garlett played with intensity again. He'll be a player when he's built his tank a bit more. Little Zac was hard at it again. What's with those guerillas slamming his head into the turf. Commentary was nauseating saying how caring Sidebottom was after doing just that  >:(

Casbolt was one of our best. I thought he was going to kick 5 there for a while. I'll settle for 4 though. He was ok in the ruck against a very good ruckman. I got excited when he threw his weight around too. Haven't seen stats but he certainly wrapped his big paws around a few pies. If not technically a tackle, would be enough to spook the ballhandler.

Charlie, Crippa, Simmo, MK, and Murph were solid IMO.  Samo didn't seem to be able to get into the game but persisted. Shame that Marchy was injured - hope it's not serious. Jonesy worked hard but looked lost when the smaller guys were forward.  I thought Weiters did everything to get himself back into it physically but struggled a bit with decision making.

Lots of work to do - not so much to work with.
Hopefully there's some others who can step up and hold their own.

Great summation LN, my thoughts exactly

Early in game injuries kill us. Other teams seem to be able to throw the magnets around and cover quite well but we seem to become very unbalanced immediately. I think that’s why Bolts ultimately wants versatile players who can play a number of positions. Given the age of our squad, many are still learning their first position.

We wanted to rebuild the long way so take the pain that comes with it. We all wanted the club to go to the draft and invest in kids and not take the quick fix approach. Well that sort of rebuild is slow and painful.

All those saying we need mature bodies, drop the kids and bring in Rowe, Asos, Kerridge etc make me laugh.

Then next week we will hear why are we playing those sorts, their slow, their spuds and not part of our future and why not get games into the kids

Weitering, SPS, Charlie, Cunningham, Fisher, Dow, Kennedy etc I’m very confident will all make it but give them time guys FFS.

We are 2 years and 3 games into this. No where near enough time to be so dramatic about performances like tonight.

Great post it’s a 66 game rebuild. Be patient.

We have been rebuilding for 15 years.

Next week's team selections will be interesting. Cogitating overnight on the latest on field effort I believe that the decision has now been taken to continue the youth focus and to grit our teeth and allow players to develop in their roles, painful as that maybe. I'm therefore not expecting too much and I'll be keen to see our team sheet for next week.

Like last week a bit of the recent history CFC turned up - timid/introverted leadership which cascaded down through the group.

When BB first arrived and particularly in our 1st season under him, we attacked the contest and opponent with gusto and intensity - not any more. Ah, yes, intensity, there are those of us who remember CFC sides that burned with intensity and ruthlessness... this year, back to nicey nicey. Last night we were so polite (and bereft of REAL leadership) that once Rottingwood applied a modicum of pressure our leaders yelled, 'quick girls, get out of the way so the Mighty Maggies can kick lots of goals in succession'. We play well and kick goals when our opponents let us (take the foot off the pedal etc).


The acceptable:

First 10 minutes or so (or until the opposition turned up) / 2nd half. Whatever the game plan for the 2nd half was, that's what we should stick to.

Matty Kreuzer.
Murphy the player (not murphy the leader... gets a small 'm')
Casboult
Few nice glimpses from Cuningham.
As the game wore on, Weitering showing a return to a semblance of his former self.


The disappointing:
The way we folded once Rottingwood targetted our youngsters & prime mover - testament to poor on-field leadership. We become so soft once challenged.

Polson
Lamb
Mullett
Wright

Like last week a bit of the recent history CFC turned up - timid/introverted leadership which cascaded down through the group.

Yep
We looked a bit shattered in that second quarter.
Body language suggested that they had no idea how to turn it around.
Make a mistake and it was a case of "Where is a big hole to crawl into?"

The confusing thing though is that there were times when we did attack with a bit of effort and intensity....(early on and for times in the second half).
Is that simply because the young can't sustain that pressure and our leaders cant show the way?

We wanted to rebuild the long way so take the pain that comes with it. We all wanted the club to go to the draft and invest in kids and not take the quick fix approach. Well that sort of rebuild is slow and painful.

All those saying we need mature bodies, drop the kids and bring in Rowe, Asos, Kerridge etc make me laugh.

Then next week we will hear why are we playing those sorts, their slow, their spuds and not part of our future and why not get games into the kids

Weitering, SPS, Charlie, Cunningham, Fisher, Dow, Kennedy etc I’m very confident will all make it but give them time guys FFS.

We are 2 years and 3 games into this. No where near enough time to be so dramatic about performances like tonight.

Bla bla bla...
Sick of the politcal correct BS
The players are moddy coddled...Come on mate you'll get the next one... Better luck next time... Well done boys we won that quarter... We got more inside 50's than them, good work... It's okay, he is just a junior playing a man's game....Pick yourself up, come on you know it's okay to cry. PL eeease.
All go to Bunnings and buy a bag of cement.

This softly softly approach you all take makes me sick. We are shti and have been shti for far too long.
We have a sprinkling of good players that try to do all the work, we have a leader who cannot inspire, we have a coach who seems on face value to be a good fit but his message seems to be waning. Running out of catch phrases. And just maybe he might not have the mettle for match time initiative.
How does Wietering go from a world better to a WTF? What is our club doing to players off the field? We have zero development. When was the last time a player has come through OUR system to become a good player. Cripps you say? He already was good.
You say be patient. Frigging Patient!!!!  ALL blues supporters have been patient, no one has burnt their membership out the front of the club yet, maybe we should it worked for the Tiggers.

I EXPECT my Team of professional players to hit targets by foot (BOTH FEET) and by hand (BOTH HANDS)
I EXPECT my Team of professional players to kick goals (BOTH FEET Murphy)
I EXPECT my Team of professional players to be able to tackle and stick the tackles, at least pin one arm. They always get the ball away.
I EXPECT my Team of professional players to defend, man up etc
I EXPECT my Team of professional players stay on their feet, we seem to go to ground at each contest. (Liam Jones)
I EXPECT my Team of professional players to stand up for themselves, for christ sake you are a Carlton player, NO one should push you around. (You're a mouse Weitering)
I EXPECT my Team of professional COACHES to deliver a constant clear message that enhances players abilities so they play to their strengths. They are matched up on players of their abilities. This zone defence is all good, but too often players are mismatched or out of position and then the team zone falls down. How often do you see it on their kick ins after a behind. We zone off and they ALWAYS get two easy kicks because we are defend a space. Gee that sounds logical to me, isn't that what WITCHES HATS are used for?
I EXPECT my Team of professional COACHES to come up with a better forward line entry, when did we go back to bombing it in? Wasn't last year we were the thinking team of forward entires? Picking our way through, honoring leads. No we have a few talls that can mark, so we bomb it in only to watch them all fly for the same ball and spoil themselves. What happened to leading and running patterns??? No bomb it into the 50 so we get a stat. I only saw the game of the box but even I saw players were free but the ball carrier didn't lower his eyes or turn his head to spot a player in space.
I EXPECT my Professional TEAM to be competitive from siren to siren, I mean this is their job is it not?
I EXPECT my Professional TEAM to be proud.

Alot has been said about the days of Elliot, but we would go back there in an instant. He was ALWAYS front and centre defending the brand. The club is irrelevant now and is just making up numbers in the comp. No one cares about Carlton any more because we are not a threat.
For the last 17 years we have been saying, we are still 3-5 years off from being a threat. WTF? Yeah... No kid will be living in poverty as well!

I know I will get ridiculed for this post because it's not the players fault, they can't help what goes on between their ears but until everyone looks at themselves critically and is honest and call it how it is with themselves and those around them we will always stay irrelevant.
I am a life long Blues supporter and always will be but it BOILS MY PISS when I see another year down the gurgler.  >:(

Why would you play Marchbank on Varcoe....the latter passed the balll to Hoskin Elliott for the first two Colllingwood goals...who plays a Tall defender on a speedster?

Spot on.

Lack of defensive pressure everywhere is more accurate.

We have been rebuilding for 15 years.

I doubt there was any rebuild during the Ratten era. We had Fev, and from what I could tell, the next part of the plan was "get Judd, and start winning games of footy."

More of a re plastering, wall papering job methinks.

Why would you play Marchbank on Varcoe....the latter passed the balll to Hoskin Elliott for the first two Colllingwood goals...who plays a Tall defender on a speedster?

I think there is at times great confusion as to who our guys should be picking up due to preoccupation with guarding their individual allotted section of grass. Jones is a another prime example of this phenomenon - torn between two different objectives - guard your turf or attack the man with the ball. This imo is resulting in player confusion and our defence being all at sea, including creating mismatches. Combine that with turnovers in midfield and forward zones and pow! Disaster. Whether we can overcome this remains to be seen.

I doubt there was any rebuild during the Ratten era. We had Fev, and from what I could tell, the next part of the plan was "get Judd, and start winning games of footy."

More of a re plastering, wall papering job methinks.

Tend to agree. This is a full rails up, nut and bolt rebuild which will involve pretty much a complete parts replacement, using some temporary second hand parts until the brand new ones are all ready and available.

I hate losing on a friday night.

You are not alone. And to show so little in the first half was very disappointing. No wonder we are top on the pay TV placings. :-[ >:D

Hey Blue Phantom, your expectation list outlines what is expected of a premiership team or contender. We ASPIRE to those but we are nowhere near those. Checkout the stability and experience within the Swans, Geelong and Hawthorn over recent years. Your checklist of expectations should be non negotiable at those places, given their stages. To EXPECT those things at our stage is pure fantasyland, Walt Disney stuff. To ASPIRE to and STRIVE towards, is our aim. Look at our player turnover, look at our youth. We are a work in progress, nothing more. Let’s reassess when Fisher, Curnow, Cripps, Dow, Mckay, Schumacher, Marchbank etc have between 80-120 games on the board.

only started watching very end of Q1, turned it off ten minutes into the second.

We have no spirit.

You missed the better bits. The first half was dreadful, especially the 2nd quarter.

I think there is at times great confusion as to who our guys should be picking up due to preoccupation with guarding their individual allotted section of grass. Jones is a another prime example of this phenomenon - torn between two different objectives - guard your turf or attack the man with the ball. This imo is resulting in player confusion and our defence being all at sea, including creating mismatches. Combine that with turnovers in midfield and forward zones and pow! Disaster. Whether we can overcome this remains to be seen.

x2.

Your Jones description is spot on - was at last nights game and he looked confused when deciding between sticking on his man or leaving to attack a ball he thinks he can kill. I like his desire and efforts but those decisions cost us more goals then it saved last night unfortunately.
 
Its bloody hard to watch as our back 6 was one strength from the Bolton era and in a flash it seems to have turned to a shambles by what the club says is us trying to be more offensive and we need to get the balance right. Seems like poor coaching if in an attempt to score more you then lose your one strength.

Or is it simply a case of losing Doc which has hurt us more then we imagined?

  

only started watching very end of Q1, turned it off ten minutes into the second.

We have no spirit.

Fly, You were the one poster that was the most optimistic after how we would go this year.

Yet you seemed to have thrown in the towel after 2 and 1/2 rounds? 

I liked your optimism and hope.....I'm hoping you of all posters wont give up on us just yet mate!

I doubt there was any rebuild during the Ratten era. We had Fev, and from what I could tell, the next part of the plan was "get Judd, and start winning games of footy."

More of a re plastering, wall papering job methinks.

In a nutshell.
This is the first rebuild in my lifetime and I got my first membership in 1964.
It's hard work but in these days of drafts, salary caps and free agency it's the only way, the great tragedy is that it took us 15 years to catch on.
The negligence, infighting and general incompetence at the club until recently means that it will be more difficult than it should have been, but like it or not there is simply no alternative.
We've finally put the foundations in place, but it won't happen in two, three or even four years.

@Shawny

Yes and of course our zone defence approach also allows the opposition to pretty much control the match-ups, as we also saw last night.

I couldn't blame the back line at all for last night, Collingwood were sweeping the ball down the ground under no pressure.

Last night was very disappointing. Our use of the ball was probably a bit better than last week (coming off a very low base there), but that seemed to be mainly because we went back to choosing safer options, short sideways chip kicks etc. There were a number of tinmes where we could have gone to Casboult or C Curnow 1 on 1 deep, and chose to chip sideways instead. But the worst aspect of last night was our work rate. At the game it was very obvious that they worked harder than us without the ball, we either couldn't or wouldn't match their spread from the contests, which was particularly evident after a forward 50 turnover. This is simply players not working hard enough. Finally, our tackling must be clearly the worst in the league. Our tackling numers are way down on other teams, and we seem to miss so many tackles by just hanging an arm out and getting brushed aside. I'd like to see some guys throwing their shoulders into some tackles and making the opposition pay when they get the ball. We may be young and low on talent, but it doesn't take talent to chase as hard as you can, run hard off the ball, and be manic in your attempt to tackle. This is what disappointed me the most last night

Hard to argue BluePhantom.

We really are soft as piss and fail to execute basic skills for a so called elite level team.

And Weitering should be dropped. Fix whatever the problem is then he comes back in...

Polson, Dow, Lamb, Weiters - we basically started with 18.

There simply is no good reason - or logic - to play Dow in the 1s at this stage of his career.

Dare I say it, had Kerridge played in his stead (and even Graham in Polson's stead) we would have won 2 out of 3.

Picking Polson - who had NO FORM TO SPEAK OF ANYWAY - WAS EVEN MORE stupid. Is BB trying to be clever? He's a very poor man's Murphy and at his size you ned real tricks - I ain't seeing anything other than a silly mo...

Well, here's a tip. BIG FAIL. BIG, BIG FAIL.

Play the percentages Bolts, you're not good enough as a Coach (let alone with the troops you elect to field) to get away with cute stuff.

And as for Murphy. The sooner he steps down as Captain the better imo, he ain't a leader's rear end.....not his fault granted. Just another remarkable blunder by the CFC brains trust.

Incapable of mustering and motivating his team mates - big problem that.

Fly, You were the one poster that was the most optimistic after how we would go this year.

Yet you seemed to have thrown in the towel after 2 and 1/2 rounds? 

I liked your optimism and hope.....I'm hoping you of all posters wont give up on us just yet mate!

Losing I can stomach if the effort is there.

Conceding 10 unanswered goals - to an ordinary - team is a massive, massive disgrace.

The lack of leadership shown by Murphy - and he must shoulder most of the blame as an experienced 'leader' - is simply breathtakingly pathetic (and heart breaking).

Where's the vocal geeing up, the rant if needed during the game?

As the say, the rot starts at the top. How do you reckon the kids fire up when their skipper misses untold tackles or 'nail' a 20m soft, up and under kick that goes straight to an opponent....?

I  am sure Marc's a nice bloke, but a leader he is not....

And if Bolton hasn't seen that, he's a dud. (and pls don't reply with well the players voted for him....  ::) )

And if Bolton wasn't extremely, extremely disappointed (and right royally ropeable) with that effort last night - and admit it - which he hasn't, he should be questioned too.

It wasn't about the kids really - the whole side went missing for 40 odd minutes....entirely, totally unacceptable for a fully professional team to do that. Zero leadership.

Quite frankly, heads should roll.

The 'be patient' mantra is a smoke screen imo, get some strong leaders in and problem solved - piss weak efforts will not be tolerated.

Bit hard to criticise piss weak efforts as Coach, when your Captain is front and centre.

But what's the alternative? We've had a policy of recruiting introverted nice guys for years, no matter who we make captain it will still be an introverted nice guy

I was so disappointed with the 1st half yesterday. I couldn't imagine us showing less spirit, less desire or less pressure.
After half time there was more to like, a lot more. But the turnovers are still killing us!

Some thoughts:
[1] Lamb vs Howe
Howe had 18 disposals while Lamb had only 9. That looks bad. However, Lamb had a job: he niggled Howe at every opportunity and took him out of the play. He has been one of the major drivers for Collingwood and he had no effect on the game at all.
That was the good.
The bad? Lamb struggled to get a kick himself and put on virtually no pressure.
Who wins this one?
I can't call Lamb a winner. He needs to do more than irritate defenders.

[2] David Cuningham in defence:
Looking at the stats, Cunners had 14 possessions. Not a great number, but I thought he was one of the more positive things for the night. His run from defence was good. In fact, I think it was one of his best games for us.

[3] Aaron Mullett:
Last week he did a reasonable job and got a fair bit of the ball. But he really didn't have much influence last night. 6 possessions wasn't much, especially as his disposal is his strength. At this point he is a major disappointment.
However, he did spend time on Varcoe, who was kept right out of the play.

[4] Jacob Weitering:
This was one of Jake's better games this year, but he really did have some issues dealing with Cox and Reid. I'd really like to see Weitering go back to the 2nds for a while if either Alex Silvagni or Sam Rowe are fit enough to do the job. Both Rowe and Silvagni have mature bodies and excellent techniques for playing big forwards. They also allow Jones to play on the leading forward, where his pace and desire come to the fore.

[5] Kreuzer vs Grundy:
How in God's name did Grundy fall to Collingwood's pick!?!? I really rated him and still do. He had a great battle with Kreuzer last night and ended up just barely ahead. Kreuzer getting on top of Grundy in the 3rd and 4th quarters was one of the reasons we got back into the game.

[6] Match ups in the middle:
We were pounded in the middle last night. Collingwood managed to curb Cripp's influence in the centre square and we didn't have the match-ups to keep Collingwood's mids out of the play. I would have played Kerridge: he can play a negative game and still get a lot of ball.

Agreed, the longer it drags on - the deeper the cancer - but buy in a 'prick' eg Luke Hodge from another Club....shake up the place.

Teach the players that they must adhere to a minimum standard or they will be dropped - no hand holding of blokes likes Weiters.

If he has personal issues - well that's not good - but give him leave and help - to fix the problem. Don't let him face the media scrum who keep asking why and how has Carlton destroyed another top talent...

FFS, i think the MC and the like suffer from 'group think' - and let's be frank, most are ex footy players and not that bright....even Macca, a vet, is too 'Blue' - to see the wood from the trees imo.

To have picked Polson - at all - and even Dow simply reeks of dumb. Serious dumb, that a whole MC could agree to it.

The latter is not ready and would me much better served gettig leather poisoning in the 2s. Apart from a few moments v the Saints, the kid has been MIA (no blame on him).

Bad, no dumb, selections have cost us 2 games already this season - and that basicaly destroys the season.

x2.

Your Jones description is spot on - was at last nights game and he looked confused when deciding between sticking on his man or leaving to attack a ball he thinks he can kill. I like his desire and efforts but those decisions cost us more goals then it saved last night unfortunately.
 
Its bloody hard to watch as our back 6 was one strength from the Bolton era and in a flash it seems to have turned to a shambles by what the club says is us trying to be more offensive and we need to get the balance right. Seems like poor coaching if in an attempt to score more you then lose your one strength.

Or is it simply a case of losing Doc which has hurt us more then we imagined?

 

How about a defence of

DOCHERTY              ROWE                 MACREADIE

WILLIAMSON          A SILVAGNI         BYRNE

- all unavailable (including coming back in the 2s) last night.  One of the consequences is we end up with an unbalanced overly tall and slow backline.  Add Weitering struggling for form and Jones being caught in 2 minds constantly- for which I blame the coaches not him - and it adds up to a struggling defence.  Mullett so far has been ordinary (not worse than that in my view)but gives a much needed big body.  Similar to why it made sense to draft O'Shea and rookie Shaw - we need that experience base and funnily enough opposing teams don't give away too many top liners.

The bigger concern to me is the midfield (admittedly we do have a couple of injuries there and Kennedy and Kreuzer seemed restricted last night) and more so the forward line having zero and I mean zero ability to put pressure on the opponent.  We couldn't chase them hard enough to put them under even perceived pressure let alone catch someone and our tackling is putrid.  No wonder the defence gets carved up when the ball comes in that easy (on top of its own woes).

FFS find someone ready willing and able to chase and lay a tackle even if they don't give much offensively.  The problem is the cupboard seems pretty bare - Kerridge maybe, Nick Graham tries hard, but neither really AFL quality in my mind.  Might Shaw be worth a look?  I say reward whoever stands up for the 2s - we know we have got the dead wood to drop.

Hey Blue Phantom, your expectation list outlines what is expected of a premiership team or contender. We ASPIRE to those but we are nowhere near those. Checkout the stability and experience within the Swans, Geelong and Hawthorn over recent years. Your checklist of expectations should be non negotiable at those places, given their stages. To EXPECT those things at our stage is pure fantasyland, Walt Disney stuff. To ASPIRE to and STRIVE towards, is our aim. Look at our player turnover, look at our youth. We are a work in progress, nothing more. Let’s reassess when Fisher, Curnow, Cripps, Dow, Mckay, Schumacher, Marchbank etc have between 80-120 games on the board.

And there you go, softly, softly approach.
It's okay we have young guys playing a man's sport? Aspire? Strive? WTF????????????
These guys get paid big BIG bucks. It is a profession, I am a member, so I EXPECT the Walt Disney stuff. It is a non negotiable when you play the game for any team.
You make all the stuff yourself. Demand it, live it, breathe it.
Standards are set from the top down. Murphy? see ya later as Capt. Still a valuable player for us but not as Capt.
Cripps has the aurora. Just do it Carlton.

I wanted Jordan Lewis.... He wouldn't put up with the crap we served up in the last three rounds.

Time to make Cripps official captain...cite "personal reasons"    for Murphy to step down.

Cripps looked very frustrated last night,  at least he gives a $@*/.

Ianh,

Kerridge's last 6 or so games in 2017 were very, very good. Better DE than Gibbs and Murphy.

His decison making was good - and markedly improved - and I think it's pure folly by the MC that he gets overlooked for both Dow and Polson.

https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/pg-carlton-blues--sam-kerridge?year=2017

And he lays tackles that stick!

An extra five tackles and 5 marks a game....

As mentioned already:
[1] We obviously have some sort of plan with our line-up, but I can't agree with it, whatever it is. Guys like Polson and Dow need to be learning their craft in the VFL. They are not ready yet. Dow showed more than he has previously, but his fumbles and mis-kicks have been horrible. Similarly, Polson had a couple of good chances to do things and mucked them through lack of composure. They need to go back and get 30+ possessions in the VFL before they deserve a game again.
Weitering, similarly, needs to go back and get some form up. Jack Silvagni going back hasn't hurt him.

[2] Our total lack of forward pressure:
The way the defence of other teams just runs out and hits targets is incredibly irritating. Richmond has shown us the way: put pressure on the defenders so they can't get the ball out. It isn't rocket science, but we really don't do it.
(a) Matthew Wright had probably his worst game for us last night. he tries, but he doesn't catch many.
(b) Jed Lamb had an ordinary game last night. He provides plenty of niggle, but he gets only a couple of tackles per game. We cannot carry a guy who chases so poorly.
(c) Levi Casboult hasn't chased anybody down since Ratten was coach. Nor does he try that hard either: he just jogs. He man runs off easily.
(d) Jack Silvagni hasn't the pace or the reaction time to catch many. Guys run off him all of the time, as he gets outbodied as well.
(e) Charlie Curnow can run guys down, but he doesn't do it very often. He needs to work on that, as it is one of the few weaknesses in his game.
(f) Pickett and Garlett can and do run guys down, but Id like to see them do more of it, as they have the pace to really do it.

We HAVE to keep the ball in our forward line with pressure!

I wanted Jordan Lewis.... He wouldn't put up with the crap we served up in the last three rounds.

Time to make Cripps official captain...cite "personal reasons"    for Murphy to step down.

Cripps looked very frustrated last night,  at least he gives a $@*/.

Love Cripps but his lack of pace is a worry regarding him as captain.

A few occasions last night he gave up the chase once his opponent got a few yards break on him. Not a great look for others to follow.

One particular time early in the last quarter looked terrible.....just jogged after an opponent and conceded he wasnt going to catch him. I sit in the members area and i wasnt the only one who thought it looked poor from a potental captain. I know he is not quick but ive watched Kruezer continue to bust his gut chasing a midfileder despite not being able to gain any ground.

Doc is our captain for me - Simmo would have been my pick for this year once Doc went down in pre season.

[2] David Cuningham in defence:
Looking at the stats, Cunners had 14 possessions. Not a great number, but I thought he was one of the more positive things for the night. His run from defence was good. In fact, I think it was one of his best games for us.

The thing I liked about him last night was that he seemed confident and attacked the ball with purpose (if that makes sense), unlike a few others. One of the few bright lights.

The thing I liked about him last night was that he seemed confident and attacked the ball with purpose (if that makes sense), unlike a few others. One of the few bright lights.

Moves laterally very well. And other like fisher, Dow and SPS also seem comfortable to navigate thru traffic with a cool head.

All the above mentioned look like having the qualities you want to see in a kid.

Big upside on players like Bell, Robinson, Smedts, etc who were the opposite.   

I couldn't blame the back line at all for last night, Collingwood were sweeping the ball down the ground under no pressure.

That certainly made matters a lot worse, and I'm not blaming the backline players - we just do not look like we've mastered zone defence. Over to the coaching staff.

The thing I liked about him last night was that he seemed confident and attacked the ball with purpose (if that makes sense), unlike a few others. One of the few bright lights.

Made a similar comment in the in-game thread.

Never saw much in him last season. But this year he seems to be getting the pace of the game a bit better and finding confidence in a time where others cannot.

Non-contributors - time for the VFL drop:
•   Polson – not ready for the big time yet
•   Lamb – not a good enough player to lose focus by pushing and shoving all match
•   Mullett – good impression of the invisible man

Disappointing so far:
•   Kennedy – looks slow of foot and hand – hopefully the ankle injury is a factor
•   Weitering – stuffed around by the match committee last year and this
•   Jones + Plowman – struggling to cope with unpressured movement into the forward line

Skilled players but can we carry this many in the team?
•   Fisher – best of this group so far this season
•    SPS – brilliant skills but doesn’t work hard enough without the ball
•   Garlett – looks the goods but needs to contribute more
•   Dow – will be good but can we carry this many?

That certainly made matters a lot worse, and I'm not blaming the backline players - we just do not look like we've mastered zone defence. Over to the coaching staff.

Players guarding grass not opposing player's is what I saw.....even solid footballers like Ed Curnow look rattled and frustrated, Sidebottom carved him up but Ed looked uncertain
who to defend and where to stand, we often had mismatched players in the zone...it was more like a game of musical chairs.... when the music stops grab a player...any player?

Players guarding grass not opposing player's is what I saw.....even solid footballers like Ed Curnow look rattled and frustrated, Sidebottom carved him up but Ed looked uncertain
who to defend and where to stand, we often had mismatched players in the zone...it was more like a game of musical chairs.... when the music stops grab a player...any player?

Yep and as I posted earlier EB, it let the Pies control match-ups by simply moving their players into the required patch of turf.

Non-contributors - time for the VFL drop:
•   Polson – not ready for the big time yet
•   Lamb – not a good enough player to lose focus by pushing and shoving all match
•   Mullett – good impression of the invisible man

Disappointing so far:
•   Kennedy – looks slow of foot and hand – hopefully the ankle injury is a factor
•   Weitering – stuffed around by the match committee last year and this
•   Jones + Plowman – struggling to cope with unpressured movement into the forward line

Skilled players but can we carry this many in the team?
•   Fisher – best of this group so far this season
•    SPS – brilliant skills but doesn’t work hard enough without the ball
•   Garlett – looks the goods but needs to contribute more
•   Dow – will be good but can we carry this many?

If you add group A and C you get seven very small or light bodied players...
The small forward lines of modern footy have messed with our taller defense, we lack quality small defenders even with Docherty in.....

Game plan - if there was one

We were so generous to the mudpies last night (or was that just inept?).

Our players generally played in such a soft defensive zone that the nearly total absence of up-field pressure allowed the opposition to deliver such advantageous foot passes that the defenders were simply not competitive. This 'plan' relies entirely on waiting for the opposition to make a skill error - instead of trying to force such an error.

Going forward, kicking long to a tall target rarely works when the forwards are outnumbered and kicking forward above the head of a small target is even less useful.

Love Cripps but his lack of pace is a worry regarding him as captain.

A few occasions last night he gave up the chase once his opponent got a few yards break on him. Not a great look for others to follow.

One particular time early in the last quarter looked terrible.....just jogged after an opponent and conceded he wasnt going to catch him.  This one looked particularly bad because the opposition fumbled the ball further up the field and Cripps' non chase meant that we were outnumbered when the ball was up for grabs.

Several of our faster players are similarly likely to give up on the chase when they don't think they will be able to catch their opponent - instead of trying to impose every possible bit of physical pressure on the man with the ball.

Game plan - if there was one

We were so generous to the mudpies last night (or was that just inept?).

Our players generally played in such a soft defensive zone that the nearly total absence of up-field pressure allowed the opposition to deliver such advantageous foot passes that the defenders were simply not competitive. This 'plan' relies entirely on waiting for the opposition to make a skill error - instead of trying to force such an error.

Going forward, kicking long to a tall target rarely works when the forwards are outnumbered and kicking forward above the head of a small target is even less useful.

We struggle when the opposing teams play the one or two tall forwards and have 4-5 smaller forward types....Tigers, GC, Pies all had the same setup same game plan, same result, same lack of nous from Bolton trying to match players up.....Zone D wont work vs a forward line based around movement/running forwards.

We struggle when the opposing teams play the one or two tall forwards and have 4-5 smaller forward types....Tigers, GC, Pies all had the same setup same game plan, same result, same lack of nous from Bolton trying to match players up.....Zone D wont work vs a forward line based around movement/running forwards.

It won't work often at all if there is no pressure applied to the kickers to force errors rather than just hoping for one.

Exactly. At least we have a game plan, better than not having one! Zone defense, intercept mark and sweep the ball down the ground with speed to create scoring opportunities. Unfortunately that plan relies on manic pressure from small forwards and mids. Our small forwards having provided any pressure, opposition teams are just waltzing the ball out of defensive 50. And our mids are either too slow or not working hard enough, so the ball is moving very freely down the ground and our defenders are exposed

I thought Matthew Lloyd made a good observation on 3AW earlier on.....said that our midfield had a total disconnect with our forward line.

In other words, neither knows what the other is doing.

Awesome coaching......????????????

Game plan - if there was one

We were so generous to the mudpies last night (or was that just inept?).

Our players generally played in such a soft defensive zone that the nearly total absence of up-field pressure allowed the opposition to deliver such advantageous foot passes that the defenders were simply not competitive. This 'plan' relies entirely on waiting for the opposition to make a skill error - instead of trying to force such an error.

Going forward, kicking long to a tall target rarely works when the forwards are outnumbered and kicking forward above the head of a small target is even less useful.

kicking it to one of our fwds instead of one of their defenders would be a good start.

Non-contributors - time for the VFL drop:
•   Polson – not ready for the big time yet
•   Lamb – not a good enough player to lose focus by pushing and shoving all match
•   Mullett – good impression of the invisible man
So was Wright.

Disappointing so far:
•   Kennedy – looks slow of foot and hand – hopefully the ankle injury is a factor
•   Weitering – stuffed around by the match committee last year and this Should have been dropped. We need to work hard on getting him back to playing with confidence.
•   Jones + Plowman – struggling to cope with unpressured movement into the forward line Indeed. No pressure from the forwards.

Skilled players but can we carry this many in the team?
•   Fisher – best of this group so far this season Agree
•    SPS – brilliant skills but doesn’t work hard enough without the ball Indeed. He tackled early last year: where did that go?
•   Garlett – looks the goods but needs to contribute more
•   Dow – will be good but can we carry this many? Not ready yet.

Why would you play Marchbank on Varcoe....the latter passed the balll to Hoskin Elliott for the first two Colllingwood goals...who plays a Tall defender on a speedster?

I thought Simpson was on Varcoe at that time.

A few points.

1. Polson can't be just dropped.   His effort was good his impact not.  He's on his last chance to show he can play at this level and I don't see the point in dropping him given the pressure acts and second efforts he brought to the game. 

2.  Weitering is not in great form but is working really hard and covering a lot of territory.   Confidence seems the issue and he got better last night.   Dropping him could make him go backwards and it's not like we have too many options (right now).

3.  Our "offensive" game plan isn't really giving us more scoring it's just hacking it into forward fifty.  I'd rather we revert to last year where players actually knew what they and the next bloke were doing.

A few points.

1. Polson can't be just dropped.   His effort was good his impact not.  He's on his last chance to show he can play at this level and I don't see the point in dropping him given the pressure acts and second efforts he brought to the game. 

2.  Weitering is not in great form but is working really hard and covering a lot of territory.   Confidence seems the issue and he got better last night.   Dropping him could make him go backwards and it's not like we have too many options (right now).

3.  Our "offensive" game plan isn't really giving us more scoring it's just hacking it into forward fifty.  I'd rather we revert to last year where players actually knew what they and the next bloke were doing.

Agree, he did look a bit better overall. We need to stick with him now, having made that commitment, at least for a couple more games in a clearly defined role. Not sure how that will pan out though in the light of our ZD debacle.

We need to review our "play them in the 2's" proposal folks. Me included.
Our 2's are getting a record breaking thrashing by a mediocre side :-\
Gulp......

Re: Sidebottom sling tackle on little Zac.
Sidebottom cops a $2k fine. Free to play next week ::)

A few points.

1. Polson can't be just dropped.   His effort was good his impact not.  He's on his last chance to show he can play at this level and I don't see the point in dropping him given the pressure acts and second efforts he brought to the game.  We seem to be non-competitive with so many lightweights in the team together

2.  Weitering is not in great form but is working really hard and covering a lot of territory.   Confidence seems the issue and he got better last night.   Dropping him could make him go backwards and it's not like we have too many options (right now).

3.  Our "offensive" game plan isn't really giving us more scoring it's just hacking it into forward fifty.  I'd rather we revert to last year where players actually knew what they and the next bloke were doing. Our offensive game plan is offensive to the fans

Re: Sidebottom sling tackle on little Zac.
Sidebottom cops a $2k fine. Free to play next week ::)

Probably because no concussion resulted. TBH, I prefer fines to suspensions for rough tackles.

Re: Sidebottom sling tackle on little Zac.
Sidebottom cops a $2k fine. Free to play next week ::)

Commentary crew made sure of that, if it had been Cripps doing the tackle they would have crucified him!

Several of our faster players are similarly likely to give up on the chase when they don't think they will be able to catch their opponent - instead of trying to impose every possible bit of physical pressure on the man with the ball.

Watching yesterday we didn't have much pace at all, which is a massive worry for lightly framed types.

Two big problems for me, SPS looks slow he's not able to keep up, Dow was touted as a ready-made but looks light and after two weeks timid in the AFL!

Our defence wasn't the problem last night, our problem is the players up the field exerting zero pressure as the opposition leave our F50.

There was one piece of play in the 2nd q slightly forward of the wing on AFL members side, Murphy and CCurnow approaching a loose ball, Murph signals to Charlie to drop back as if to say, "I'll pass it to you when I get it".
Curnow wheels back towards the goals but Murph for some reason either eased off a little or didn't realise the C'wood defenders were as close as they were (or both) with the result that they beat him to the loose ball, forced it out of bounds and the ascendancy was lost.

Really dumb option. Would have been a better option for one or the other to provide a shepherd or stay close enough for a handball assist.

Also a worry that the captain couldn't deliver during a clutch moment.

There was one piece of play in the 2nd q slightly forward of the wing on AFL members side, Murphy and CCurnow approaching a loose ball, Murph signals to Charlie to drop back as if to say, "I'll pass it to you when I get it".
Curnow wheels back towards the goals but Murph for some reason either eased off a little or didn't realise the C'wood defenders were as close as they were (or both) with the result that they beat him to the loose ball, forced it out of bounds and the ascendancy was lost.

Really dumb option. Would have been a better option for one or the other to provide a shepherd or stay close enough for a handball assist.

Also a worry that the captain couldn't deliver during a clutch moment.

Right in front me, I nearly vomited. Read my recent post re the captain.

Alot has been said about the days of Elliot, but we would go back there in an instant. He was ALWAYS front and centre defending the brand. The club is irrelevant now and is just making up numbers in the comp.

Oh we're relevant all right.  Without Carlton, how would other clubs ...

- get their season back on track?
- give their success starved fans some long awaited joy?
- grant a besieged coach some breathing space?
- achieve a morale and percentage boost?
- extend their unbeaten run to x?
- etc.

We are the charity team of the AFL (and doesn't it feel good  ::) ?)

"We can't be defined on just wins and losses. We need to be defined on pressure .....

"It's about pressure. We want to be defined as a team that gives effort and pressure.

"Brendon Bolton 2016"

I think this game boiled down to the fact that at times when we showed effort, pressure and intensity we were right in it....on top even.
When that dropped off so did we.

We are yet to be defined :(

the collins / kernahan era really set us back.
The former was a bees dk from destroying the club permanently, the latter never really grasped the ongoing cycles of development and retention. His five year blue print to 2 premierships didn't even yield 1 top 4 finish , which is a testament to this failure. This malthouse idolator, rolled the clubs dice much the same way elliot rolled it in his time.
We have lost one player on a minor indiscretion, another cause we felt 50k pa increase was too much, another who is an all Australian ruckman, another who's a premiership player. etc. The Remanence of a failed era currently still haunts us in other clubs stocks.
17 years, false dawns, false prophets, some joy, mostly pain and we're here today, a bunch of kids, some potential stars, lots of duds in a full blown start of a length rebuild with no guarantees.
I like bolts, he's a critical thinker, steady hand and he knows how long and hard this will be, the media seem to lay off him and the group, but a club starved of any success will loose commercial viability, thus resulting in a do something mentality (rinse repeat) and thus becomes the conundrum that is Carlton that will make collingwoods past flag droughts reasonable

We still have past champions involved, who despite their illustrious playing history are yet to deliver success as part of any AFL administration.

More idolatry?

list managers recruit presidents these days?

Sick of hearing those media grabs like, "Carlton won the I50 count!"

They are meaningless and worthless hyperbole twisting stats.

We spend many minutes of gut busting effort to scramble the ball a few meters inside the F50 arc usually deep in a pocket in a manor best described as a maul. Only to see the opposition sweep the ball from their defense to their goal square within a few seconds in what could be best described as a streak.

The quality of entry means something, and perhaps the ease of the exit means even more!

Sick of hearing those media grabs like, "Carlton won the I50 count!"

They are meaningless and worthless hyperbole twisting stats.

We spend many minutes of gut busting effort to scramble the ball a few meters inside the F50 arc usually deep in a pocket in a manor best described as a maul. Only to see the opposition sweep the ball from their defense to their goal square within a few seconds in what could be best described as a streak.

The quality of entry means something, and perhaps the ease of the exit means even more!

Yep most of our inside fifties went straight to Jack crisp.

, but a club starved of any success will loose commercial viability, thus resulting in a do something mentality (rinse repeat)

This is our biggest danger.
The members, being football tragics and incapable of critical thinking, will bay for blood, it remains to be seen whether the current board has the mettle to withstand it and stay the course.
We'll know by the end of this year, it will either be a reasonable chance of recovery and long term success or we'll be consigned to a future as a perennial laughing stock.

This is our biggest danger.
The members, being football tragics and incapable of critical thinking, will bay for blood, it remains to be seen whether the current board has the mettle to withstand it and stay the course.
We'll know by the end of this year, it will either be a reasonable chance of recovery and long term success or we'll be consigned to a future as a perennial laughing stock.

Our football club don't care about its members.

Bolton won't be under pressure this season.

You cant trade Gibbs,  lose Docherty to a season ending injury and then declare you have the wrong coach.

It's just not going to happen.

I always stated that the knives will come out for Bolton and that this would be the test of whether or not we have changed as a footy club.

If we go down the usual route of not backing in the coach we'll continue producing the same old same old.

We are playing the long game IMHO and Bolton can't be tried by results at this stage particularly if things are being done right everywhere else.  His game day leaves a bit to be desired but that's it.

We are playing the long game IMHO and Bolton can't be tried by results at this stage particularly if things are being done right everywhere else.  His game day leaves a bit to be desired but that's it.

I hope that you're right, but our history suggests to me that you may well be wrong.

Our football club don't care about its members.

Bolton won't be under pressure this season.

You cant trade Gibbs,  lose Docherty to a season ending injury and then declare you have the wrong coach.

It's just not going to happen.

I always stated that the knives will come out for Bolton and that this would be the test of whether or not we have changed as a footy club.

If we go down the usual route of not backing in the coach we'll continue producing the same old same old.

We are playing the long game IMHO and Bolton can't be tried by results at this stage particularly if things are being done right everywhere else.  His game day leaves a bit to be desired but that's it.

I largely agree with you (for once).

But when is the right time for the Coach to be questioned?

Already we have seen some absolutely poor selections being made ie for the Gold Coast game when Special K was an out and then tactically in Rd 3 when seemingly diddly was done to stop the 10 goal run on the Pies got on....

And let'd be frank, the Pies are about as good/bad as us overall.

Sick of hearing those media grabs like, "Carlton won the I50 count!"

They are meaningless and worthless hyperbole twisting stats.

We spend many minutes of gut busting effort to scramble the ball a few meters inside the F50 arc usually deep in a pocket in a manor best described as a maul. Only to see the opposition sweep the ball from their defense to their goal square within a few seconds in what could be best described as a streak.

The quality of entry means something, and perhaps the ease of the exit means even more!

Each individual statistical indicator is simply one piece of a bigger picture. Each of them becomes more meaningful in the presence of other statistical indicators.

The I50 count tells you exactly what it is supposed to tell you - how many times in each game we got the ball roughly where we wanted it. This obviously tells you nothing about the way in which the ball got there, nor what happened after it got there. There's other stats for that. But I would not call it useless or meaningless. It gives one small clue about how we played the game, and any clue is useful. The more clues the better.

But when is the right time for the Coach to be questioned?

I think that the club needs to communicate with the members and supporters and be more open and honest.
If the supporters, members and sponsors feel that they are being genuinely informed about the journey we're on and that the club has a definite and well thought out plan they will be far more likely to support the direction we're taking.
Bolton is learning along with the players and he's certain to make mistakes along the way, but it will be more beneficial if he owns them and learns from them rather than ply us with more of the nauseating spin we've become accustomed to.

I think that the club needs to communicate with the members and supporters and be more open and honest.
If the supporters, members and sponsors feel that they are being genuinely informed about the journey we're on and that the club has a definite and well thought out plan they will be far more likely to support the direction we're taking.
Bolton is learning along with the players and he's certain to make mistakes along the way, but it will be more beneficial if he owns them and learns from them rather than ply us with more of the nauseating spin we've become accustomed to.

That's easy. "Strap yourselves in and feel the G's. Expected turbulence ahead."

Or for the dainty among us : “Ladies and gentlemen, the Captain has turned on the fasten seat belt sign. We are now crossing a zone of turbulence. Please return to your seats and keep your seat belts fastened. Thank you.”

I think that the club needs to communicate with the members and supporters and be more open and honest.
If the supporters, members and sponsors feel that they are being genuinely informed about the journey we're on and that the club has a definite and well thought out plan they will be far more likely to support the direction we're taking.
Bolton is learning along with the players and he's certain to make mistakes along the way, but it will be more beneficial if he owns them and learns from them rather than ply us with more of the nauseating spin we've become accustomed to.

I'm not sure they didn't do that...
The 'rebuild'  (whether you're a believer or not) was pretty clearly spelt out at the start....there was a bit of resistance from the coach at the time but folks would have been pretty clear that this was supposed to be a change in approach.
The little 'journey' videos along the way have communicated the progress.

The problem for the club is that football is a pretty transparent game based on performance and results.
Improvements in teams or players are pretty easy to spot.
Effort and intensity is fairly easy to judge. (good at times last week, very poor at other times)

Gaps in lists or team selections that remain unfilled raise questions
Other sides progressing at a faster rate also raise questions about an approach.
Stagnation or lack of expected progress cuts deep into any message.
That's the point where questions start and in Bolton's case he's had a bit longer than most of his predecessors.

The funny thing though is all it takes is a couple of good weeks, a lift in confidence, and some of the negatives become less glaring.
That's the tonic we need at the moment.
A win or two is pretty important.

Valid points Lods.
I think that what the club failed to do was to clearly spell out the state of play at the beginning of the rebuild, as a result I don't think that many of our supporters were fully aware of how far back we were coming from and assumed that two or three years of good recruiting and astute trades would see us competitive.
It's those supporters who will become increasingly frustrated by poor results, but realistically we should expect that it will take closer to five years than three.

I largely agree with you (for once).

But when is the right time for the Coach to be questioned?

Already we have seen some absolutely poor selections being made ie for the Gold Coast game when Special K was an out and then tactically in Rd 3 when seemingly diddly was done to stop the 10 goal run on the Pies got on....

And let'd be frank, the Pies are about as good/bad as us overall.

You question the coach when you see what he does at the club and wonder why?

What the rank and file think isn't important it's the players and the club.  If they can see he's putting in the work and practices that focus on development then the game day stuff will look after itself in time.

Sick of hearing those media grabs like, "Carlton won the I50 count!"

You complain when they don't have anything positive to say about us.

You complain when they try and say something positive about us.
 :-\

You question the coach when you see what he does at the club and wonder why?

What the rank and file think isn't important it's the players and the club.  If they can see he's putting in the work and practices that focus on development then the game day stuff will look after itself in time.

I'm hearing plenty of verbiage....not much action!

I'm not seeing much change onfield....and plenty of same, same. Sadly.

And poor selections and poor match day strategy....

Other than that, it all looks beaut :)

You complain when they don't have anything positive to say about us.

That "they", the "sh1te stirring they" is the media.

You complain when they try and say something positive about us.  :-\

This "they", the "I50 they", is the club spinning.

You love posting ambiguities Kruddler.

This latest one is called an "Ambiguity of Cross Reference", two "they" that are not the same! ;)

That "they", the "sh1te stirring they" is the media.
This "they", the "I50 they", is the club spinning.

You love posting ambiguities Kruddler.

This latest one is called an "Ambiguity of Cross Reference", two "they" that are not the same! ;)

The second "They" is not exclusive to the club. Its been said in the media too. I'd argue before being mentioned from the club.

Yep most of our inside fifties went straight to Jack crisp.

Reckon another coach might have said if I put a player who can take a mark on Crisp we might snag half of the nine he took....I remember Crisp lost his lunch in the middle of the ground when a high ball came in and he came up a few steps short so any semblance of pressure down back on him might have led to some scoring opportunities...but instead we just left him on his own and he looked like Gary Dempsey taking mark after mark down back...as a supporter there is nothing more frustrating than watching repeat entry failures from your team with the same method.

Reckon another coach might have said if I put a player who can take a mark on Crisp we might snag half of the nine he took....I remember Crisp lost his lunch in the middle of the ground when a high ball came in and he came up a few steps short so any semblance of pressure down back on him might have led to some scoring opportunities...but instead we just left him on his own and he looked Gary Dempsey taking mark after mark down back...as a supporter there is nothing more frustrating than watching repeat entry failures from your team with the same method.

It will continue to happen if we insist with going with 7 defenders....which we do more often than not.

Until we can let go of that safety net, we will struggle to get quality inside 50's.

Often, not always, rebuilds have a stinker for one year at some point before coming good again. Even Richmond had a stinker in 2016 before winning a flag in 2017. Geelong had one in 2006 before winning in 2007. Even back to the Lions, they had a stinker in 1998, a spoon, then immediately turned into a super side. Those were at later stages than ours but it often happens. Even Ratten had a bad one in 2012 after improving every year, if you can call that a rebuild given our rotten recruiting with a side stuck with near half a side off the rookie list. Probably always going to require a 2nd rebuild given our recruiting.Fortunately 5 Rising Star nominations last year indicates things might be better.

On the other hand Hawthorn went straight though to 2008 and the Dogs did similar.

Was at the game Friday night and wow I can see why our defence sucks and his name is Mullet. The media is getting on Jones and Weitering but in Jones' case, he is covering for the soft, stat chasing Mullet and it's making him look bad. I speak of a goal to Treloar, whom Jones was standing, the ball was kicked to Stephenson (I think) just outside 50 and Treloar was in the pocket. Jones was the closest player so he left his player and ran to Stephenson, as you should when playing a team defence, else Stephenson could have jogged into 40 and kicked an easy goal.

In leaving his player, it is the responsibility of the spare man or closest man to roll over and cover Treloar, this did not happen and Stephenson was able to pop a 35m pass to Treloar who goaled from a set shot.

When Treloar marked I looked at the closest players, and Mullet was standing at the top of the square guarding no one. This goal was not Jones" fault but Mullet's. The cynic in me (which is more often than not right) would think that Mullet was standing close to goals, so in the event of a point he could grab the ball and kick in, have you noticed he ALWAYS taps the ball on his foot from a kick out, just to get a stat.

Plowman must be feeling very secure and happy about his position in the side, as he does not much else than stand an opponent and look as he breaks his tackle or out sprints him to the ball. I'm convinced if Plowman and Mullet were replaced by Docherty and A.Silvagni then Collingwood doesn't get half it's score. I like Cunningham at half back, while it wasn't a perfect game he did some things that made me think a year or two there and we'll have a real player.

Now we look forward and Lamb must only be played from now on when we play Hawthorn, and Matthew Wright, if he's not getting the over the top goals then he's near useless. Does not chase, does not rove off hands and clogs movement up by standing in leading paths.

People laud Cripps and what a great player he is, I've watched him twice this season live and both times I've been staggered at his lack of second efforts without the ball, if a player gets around you, then you have to chase, whether you think you can catch him or not. Three or four times a player got around Cripps and he offered a jog at best for 5 steps. Kruezer on the other hand will chase even if he has no chance just to apply a bit of pressure, and FFS Cripps take the first, and more often than not, the best option rather than try and fake 5 players out and do a no look fancy hand pass that and work 10% of the time. SPS is guilty of this too, yet Fisher will give the first and best option, regardless if it looks great or not.

J.Silvagni needs to come back in to give us someone with forward understanding, Kerridge for Dow who needs a rest, Mullet for the bootstudder. Wright is lucky Pickett's not up and going and the same goes for Plowman and A.Silvagni.

Thank-you Raydan, it proves to me that a lot of the commentary is bullcrap based on clips and stats without half of them ever having watched a game live at the ground.

A lot of this is impossible to mistake for anybody half interested in football, yet it's barely mentioned in professional sports journalism! The reports often slaughter the last bloke in the line, and are ignorant of the person responsible. Our last line of defenders, and often that is Jones and Weitering, have been left with way too many opponents to cover and it makes them look silly especially when smart teams take advantage of that situation. Then the defenders desperate efforts to kill the footy look chaotic, too little and too late, but it is not their fault!

You would have also witnessed some of those long F50 entry kicks that dropped short, while our forwards stood motionless waiting for the ball to fall in their lap, over the back of the pack! In one incident our bloke stood at the back of a pack while a 50m to 60m kick came into the F50 from between the wing and HFF, two Collingwood defenders looked at each other nervously waiting for the forward to move because they were caught 5m in front of him, he didn't move, and they virtually shrugged in disbelief ran forward took any easy uncontested mark and ran out of our attacking zone with minimal pressure. This wasn't a bullet like pass that left the forward no time to react, it was a long high kick that took seconds to get there and was probably only 5m short of perfection, maybe three or four steps for our forward! ;)

Jones and Mullet are both B grade VFL footballers, a type of player of which we have far too many. Not sure how you can criticise one without the other. Jones was pantsed by Franklin last year, and Mullet wasn't even playing.

I think you need a bigger sample space before you pot blokes like Cripps, Wright and Plowman, all three of whom are among the very least of our problems.

I don’t understand why people take pot shots at some of our kids, e.g Dow, and then think we can bring in plonkers like Jack S and Kerridge, as if somehow they will be better.

Jones and Mullet are both B grade VFL footballers, a type of player of which we have far too many. Not sure how you can criticise one without the other. Jones was pantsed by Franklin last year, and Mullet wasn't even playing.

I think you need a bigger sample space before you pot blokes like Cripps, Wright and Plowman, all three of whom are among the very least of our problems.

I don’t understand why people take pot shots at some of our kids, e.g Dow, and then think we can bring in plonkers like Jack S and Kerridge, as if somehow they will be better.

Guys like Buddy and Lynch pants anyone, Rance included, one on one.

Only think that works is a team defence, mids included.

It's the mids who have failed to provide ANY defensive support when we get smashed.

By the time the ball is streaming through the midfield with no pressure on the ball carrier, there is little, no SFA, a defender can do unless the delivery is woeful (an anti skill that only carp teams like us can achieve).

And if you can't see how a Kerridge type (not Graham) isnt an improvement on the current Dow, well God help you.

Look at the bloke's stats the last 6 or so games in 2017 - when he was given a run at it, better than Murphy or Gibbs.

Dow needs to play 2s - earn a spot in the 1s - just like anyone else.

When was the last time Buddy kicked 10 on a player ? When was the last time Lynch kicked 8 on a player ? Can' blame the midfield all the time. Defenders have to defend at some point.

What irks me more than anything is Jones isn't even near the contest. He's meters away. If he's there with the forward, at the drop of the ball, trying to mark, spoil, harass, punch the ball away, then fair enough. He's not as big or strong as Buddy, Lynch etc., so if he gets out bodied, I can live with that.

And if you can't see how a Kerridge type (not Graham) isnt an improvement on the current Dow, well God help you.

Look at the bloke's stats the last 6 or so games in 2017 - when he was given a run at it, better than Murphy or Gibbs.

Dow needs to play 2s - earn a spot in the 1s - just like anyone else.

Kerridge has already played 30 odd games for us. We've seen what he as to offer, and it isn't great. He's a panic merchant, pure and simple. Dow is a kid, still getting used to the pace of the game, playing against experienced, hardened bodies, and he already looks cleaner than Kerridge.

When was the last time Buddy kicked 10 on a player ? When was the last time Lynch kicked 8 on a player ? Can' blame the midfield all the time. Defenders have to defend at some point.

What irks me more than anything is Jones isn't even near the contest. He's meters away. If he's there with the forward, at the drop of the ball, trying to mark, spoil, harass, punch the ball away, then fair enough. He's not as big or strong as Buddy, Lynch etc., so if he gets out bodied, I can live with that.

Jones isn't a good body on body player he's better using his athleticism and reach to beat opponents.

We are struggling because on field there are too many people focussed on themselves rather than helping the next bloke.  Defence is a team within the team and currently it lacks leadership to the point Marchbank going down costs us big time.

Kerridge can get the ball ok but his usage is woeful even at VFL level.
His kicking action is fine and he seems well coordinated so it must be between the ears, he lacks focus, concentration and decision-making skills.
Replacing Dow with him, or Graham either for that matter, would be a retrograde step.
I saw some of the VFL on the weekend, the only player you might consider is Silvagni and then only for his work rate.

Jones isn't a good body on body player he's better using his athleticism and reach to beat opponents.

Yet in the ruck he's more than useful, far better than Casboult, and currently far better than McKay or De Koning. After his last 18 months I'd rate Jones the equal of Rowe in the ruck.

In think people underestimate Liam's ability, he shows great intent, recovery and persistence, it's not his physical attributes that limit him it's experience in those roles.

Why would we chop someone likes Jones after what he's shown in the new roles over the last 18 months, when we've persisted with other players for almost a decade? Wouldn't that be a little hypocritical?

All defenders struggle when the ball is coming in under no pressure, with Docherty and Byrne fully fit next season I'm happy that our defence will be as good as any.
It's the midfield and forward pressure we need to lift but that will take time and only come as youngsters develop and we can replace some players who aren't good enough.

Jones smashed Lynch last year, our team has had no structure the last 2 weeks. Even looking back at round 1 if we take away the Tigers slow start they killed us as well with their fast transition.

Jones isn't a good body on body player he's better using his athleticism and reach to beat opponents.

We are struggling because on field there are too many people focussed on themselves rather than helping the next bloke.  Defence is a team within the team and currently it lacks leadership to the point Marchbank going down costs us big time.

If Marchbank and Docherty make that much of a difference, then both should be signed to long term deals on big $.

We knew Mullett's weakness when we got him , Brad Scott told everyone why he was cut...thats down to SOS for picking him up
Wright...aint quick but at least he kicks straight when he does get a joe the goose ball, most of his teammates would miss, especially Pickett.
Cripps...yep down side of Cripps is he is dead slow and blows up when he chases.....he wasnt a top ten pick for that reason, he is an extractor, does Tom Mitchell chase and catch anyone?

Dow....he isnt a great kick on the run or for goal, he isnt terrible but its not his big weapon either...everyone who watched the TAC knew that...guess what either was Chris Judd...

Kerridge....not the worst player and will probably hold up better physically than Dow at the minute but its a retro move bringing him back, he was disinterested vs the Pies VFL team and couldnt be bothered chasing or throwing himself into the fray. He knows this is his last season...

JackS...better than most in terms of endeavour but still as slow as treacle vs the Pies VFL team , yep bring him back in but he will never be the main man down forward and needs decent KP players to be effective, other teams just run off him..

Lamb....not up to it...delist..

If Marchbank and Docherty make that much of a difference, then both should be signed to long term deals on big $.

Is the difference between a win and a smashing defeat so great?

I think for AFL just being a few percent off your peak results in horrible outcomes, AFL clubs full of professional coaches and experienced players can turn the slightest tactical or structural defect into a gaping hole in just moments! If you don't have some polyfiller, the dam wall will break!

Is the difference between a win and a smashing defeat so great?

I think for AFL just being a few percent off your peak results in horrible outcomes, AFL clubs full of professional coaches and experienced players can turn the slightest tactical or structural defect into a gaping hole in just moments! If you don't have some polyfiller, the dam wall will break!

I agree, but I was making a point rather than being literal.

If Marchbank and Docherty make that much of a difference, then both should be signed to long term deals on big $.

How many games have we won with them in the team?....not that many, I'd be saving the big dollars for the big fish like Sloane, Sheil or Lynch

We knew Mullett's weakness when we got him , Brad Scott told everyone why he was cut...thats down to SOS for picking him up
Wright...aint quick but at least he kicks straight when he does get a joe the goose ball, most of his teammates would miss, especially Pickett.
Cripps...yep down side of Cripps is he is dead slow and blows up when he chases.....he wasnt a top ten pick for that reason, he is an extractor, does Tom Mitchell chase and catch anyone?

Dow....he isnt a great kick on the run or for goal, he isnt terrible but its not his big weapon either...everyone who watched the TAC knew that...guess what either was Chris Judd...

Kerridge....not the worst player and will probably hold up better physically than Dow at the minute but its a retro move bringing him back, he was disinterested vs the Pies VFL team and couldnt be bothered chasing or throwing himself into the fray. He knows this is his last season...

JackS...better than most in terms of endeavour but still as slow as treacle vs the Pies VFL team , yep bring him back in but he will never be the main man down forward and needs decent KP players to be effective, other teams just run off him..

Lamb....not up to it...delist..

Generally agree EB.

We knew Mullett's weakness when we got him , Brad Scott told everyone why he was cut...thats down to SOS for picking him up

Wright...aint quick but at least he kicks straight when he does get a joe the goose ball, most of his teammates would miss, especially Pickett.

Cripps...yep down side of Cripps is he is dead slow and blows up when he chases.....he wasnt a top ten pick for that reason, he is an extractor, does Tom Mitchell chase and catch anyone?

Dow....he isnt a great kick on the run or for goal, he isnt terrible but its not his big weapon either...everyone who watched the TAC knew that...guess what either was Chris Judd...

Kerridge....not the worst player and will probably hold up better physically than Dow at the minute but its a retro move bringing him back, he was disinterested vs the Pies VFL team and couldnt be bothered chasing or throwing himself into the fray. He knows this is his last season...

JackS...better than most in terms of endeavour but still as slow as treacle vs the Pies VFL team , yep bring him back in but he will never be the main man down forward and needs decent KP players to be effective, other teams just run off him..

Lamb....not up to it...delist..

I think Mullett wasn't picked up for the role he is playing, but I also think it was naive to think opposition clubs wouldn't exploit his obvious shortcomings.

Lamb is better than Mullett and by some margin.

Agree about the others.

What you are implying is it's our lack of depth, inexperience, frequent poor work ethic and structural issues that expose some of our shortfalls. I think you are right, and I think that is why BB is attracting some heat!

But it's a bit obvious EB1, what is the answer with the current available resources, what do we try to do differently?

Mullet was an insurance pick-up and is only getting a game because we are the walking wounded already.  If Lang was fit and Docherty wasn't injured and Matt Shaw was up and running mullet would be the third or fourth cab off the rank already and I think we knew that when we got him.

Unluckily for us he's a best 22 player by default because Simpson aside we have a very tall defence which should be doing much better against opposition talls than they are.

How many games have we won with them in the team?....not that many, I'd be saving the big dollars for the big fish like Sloane, Sheil or Lynch

EB, see my reply immediately above.

Jones smashed Lynch last year, our team has had no structure the last 2 weeks. Even looking back at round 1 if we take away the Tigers slow start they killed us as well with their fast transition.

That may well be true, but for me it's an unhappy coincidence that we are book ended by Levi and Jones, two blokes that for me suffer from the same ills - honest, ordinary players who stay on our list for too long, and who deliver the odd cameo performance in a general mass of mediocrity. Players on which the club spends time, money and resources, which IMO, is out of proportion to any perceived improvement. Every club has them - an example for me would be Ryan Schoenmakers - 9 completed seasons, roughly 100 games, in and out of the side for various reasons, mainly I feel because better option exist. Unfortunately for us, our 2 Schoenmakers are vital components in our starting 18, not bit players, playing arguably the two most important positions. And that's a huge problem right there.

And stoners who comment that Rance on rare occasions also gets his pants pulled down (therefore Jones isn't that bad) need to put down their bongs. Rance was AA and Richmond B+F when the Tigers were on a road to nowhere.

And stoners who comment that Rance on rare occasions also gets his pants pulled down (therefore Jones isn't that bad) need to put down their bongs. Rance was AA and Richmond B+F when the Tigers were on a road to nowhere.

What do you call it when you keep chasing your losses, Nthmond are proof that it can eventually pay off! ;D

I think they have the luckiest AFL premiership in the history of the AFL, delivered by doubling down!

They look slightly less likely to slide than the Bulldogs, who perhaps have the second luckiest AFL Premiership in AFL history.

Is it unreasonable and too early to think the Swans or Crows are flag favourites?

What do you call it when you keep chasing your losses, Nthmond are proof that it can eventually pay off! ;D

I think they have the luckiest AFL premiership in the history of the AFL, delivered by doubling down!

They look slightly less likely to slide than the Bulldogs, who perhaps have the second luckiest AFL Premiership in AFL history.

Is it unreasonable and too early to think the Swans or Crows are flag favourites?

They have a flag, and they had luck in getting it, as does every flag team. That's not really the point. I'm talking about Rance v Jones, as absurd a comparison as that is.

They have a flag, and they had luck in getting it, as does every flag team. That's not really the point. I'm talking about Rance v Jones, as absurd a comparison as that is.

I do worry that the vast majority of the differences between the likes of Rance and the likes of a Jones or Weitering comes from the umpires.

Anyone who watched SOS live must understand the hypocrisy of Carlton fans calling for Rance to be penalised. The question though is why some and not others, it is not like it is a subtle situation?

But I appreciate 180 games is a major factor also!

I do worry that the vast majority of the differences between the likes of Rance and the likes of a Jones or Weitering comes from the umpires.

Anyone who watched SOS live must understand the hypocrisy of Carlton fans calling for Rance to be penalised. The question though is why some and not others, it is not like it is a subtle situation?

But I appreciate 180 games is a major factor also!

Rance was winning AA and B+F well before he reached 180 games. I can't really answer your other question. The logical conclusion to your question is that umpires are either corrupt or incompetent, and I'm sure every club has large swathes of supporters with a major victim mentality.

The logical conclusion to your question is that umpires are either corrupt or incompetent, and I'm sure every club has large swathes of supporters with a major victim mentality.

I think the logical conclusion is that umpires are human and fallable, equally and easily influenced by crowds and media as any of us!

I suppose our problem is too many Carlton fans sit stirring their tea with a silver spoon and offering golf claps of encouragement, while the filth and feral fans scream at the top of their lungs for another "ball"!

I think the logical conclusion is that umpires are human and fallable, equally and easily influenced by crowds and media as any of us!

Yes well, that would take the wind of millions of sails, who swear black and blue that the AFL hates us, the media hates us, the umps hate us, and they will never be satisfied until we are wiped off the face of the earth.

I'm rather surprised that you of all people would take such a benevolent position.

Yes well, that would take the wind of millions of sails, who swear black and blue that the AFL hates us, the media hates us, the umps hate us, and they will never be satisfied until we are wiped off the face of the earth.

I'm rather surprised that you of all people would take such a benevolent position.

We can be persecuted and they can be fallable, there is not necessarily a connection! ;D

I'm no enigma! :o