NAB Challenge: Carlton vs. Sydney at Etihad

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Re: NAB Challenge: Carlton vs. Sydney at Etihad

Reply #15 – March 01, 2016, 10:48:26 pm

I still have a huge concern.

We look at the forward performance last week and say...."yep, it was poor but wait until we get our full midfield back and it will be a different story."
But really, even fully fit, that's not a significantly better mid-field than we played for most of last year and that did little for our forward performance.

Our top goalkickers last year were

1    Andrejs Everitt    31
2    Levi Casboult    24
3    Tom Bell        17
4    Lachlan Henderson 16
5    Dennis Armfield     13
5    Troy Menzel     13
7    Andrew Walker     12
8    Zach Tuohy     9
8    Matthew Kreuzer 9
10    Marc Murphy    7
10    Liam Jones    7

Bell, Henderson and Menzel are gone....There's going to have to be a massive step up by more than one forward to make a significant difference to our scoring power.

Re: NAB Challenge: Carlton vs. Sydney at Etihad

Reply #16 – March 01, 2016, 10:56:35 pm

Quote from: Lods on March 01, 2016, 10:48:26 pm

Bell, Henderson and Menzel are gone....There's going to have to be a massive step up by more than one forward to make a significant difference to our scoring power.

Clarkson would say "3 soldiers fall over, 3 others stand up". Thats what BB will tell them I reckon.

Re: NAB Challenge: Carlton vs. Sydney at Etihad

Reply #17 – March 01, 2016, 10:59:59 pm

Is the problem of poor performance in the F50 one of our mids being incapable of good delivery or one of our forwards not creating anything to deliver it to, or being incapable of doing much if it is delivered to them, or a combination of all these things (plus more!)? I'll be very interested to see if we try anything different v. the Swans.

Re: NAB Challenge: Carlton vs. Sydney at Etihad

Reply #18 – March 01, 2016, 11:06:06 pm

Quote from: Gointocarlton on March 01, 2016, 10:56:35 pm

Clarkson would say "3 soldiers fall over, 3 others stand up". Thats what BB will tell them I reckon.

Yep
But that just brings us back to square...
Our "points for" last year were our worst since 1967 when we only played 18 regular season games.
Players don't just have to stand up they have to go a bit better than that.

How we structure and the game plan we employ will have an impact but that's an unknown at present.
A forward or two may emerge and surprise....but again, it's not obvious.

Re: NAB Challenge: Carlton vs. Sydney at Etihad

Reply #19 – March 01, 2016, 11:10:34 pm

Quote from: Lods on March 01, 2016, 10:48:26 pm

I still have a huge concern.

We look at the forward performance last week and say...."yep, it was poor but wait until we get our full midfield back and it will be a different story."
But really, even fully fit, that's not a significantly better mid-field than we played for most of last year and that did little for our forward performance.

Our top goalkickers last year were

1    Andrejs Everitt    31
2    Levi Casboult    24
3    Tom Bell        17
4    Lachlan Henderson 16
5    Dennis Armfield     13
5    Troy Menzel     13
7    Andrew Walker     12
8    Zach Tuohy     9
8    Matthew Kreuzer 9
10    Marc Murphy    7
10    Liam Jones    7

Bell, Henderson and Menzel are gone....There's going to have to be a massive step up by more than one forward to make a significant difference to our scoring power.

Pretty difficult to judge our forward line when we don't get the ball past the centre for most of the game.

Re: NAB Challenge: Carlton vs. Sydney at Etihad

Reply #20 – March 01, 2016, 11:12:48 pm

Quote from: Lods on March 01, 2016, 11:06:06 pm

Yep
But that just brings us back to square...
Our "points for" last year were our worst since 1967 when we only played 18 regular season games.
Players don't just have to stand up they have to go a bit better than that.

How we structure and the game plan we employ will have an impact but that's an unknown at present.
A forward or two may emerge and surprise....but again, it's not obvious.

Have faith in BB and his men, they will play them to their strengths. Might take a bit to figure out who can do what but he will figure it out.

Re: NAB Challenge: Carlton vs. Sydney at Etihad

Reply #21 – March 02, 2016, 06:36:33 am

Quote from: jeza on March 01, 2016, 11:10:34 pm

Pretty difficult to judge our forward line when we don't get the ball past the centre for most of the game.

Amen Jeza....gotta win the ball (first use ideally) and get it in their quickly otherwise any forward structure is up against it.

From that list
1 Andrejs Everitt 31 35
2 Levi Casboult 24    30
3 Tom Bell 17
4 Lachlan Henderson 16
5 Dennis Armfield    13 15
~~5 Troy Menzel    13~~
7 Andrew Walker    12 35 (in 2011 as a permanent forward kicked 56)
8 Zach Tuohy    9 10
8 Matthew Kreuzer 9    15
10 Marc Murphy 7 15
10 Liam Jones    7    0

Gibbs 15-20
Cripps 10-15
Thomas    10 - 15
Kerridge 20 - 25 (career average 1 a game)
Wright    10-15
Lamb/Smith (SF) 15

If Plowman stands up down back (and/or Jacksh), I'd be tempted to swing Weitering forward as a third tall.....has some pedigree.


If Army can nail 13 (from 12 games) thosae other blokes just as likely, some moreso eg Gibbs, Thomas, Kerridge

Re: NAB Challenge: Carlton vs. Sydney at Etihad

Reply #22 – March 02, 2016, 07:18:10 am

Quote from: jeza on March 01, 2016, 11:10:34 pm

Pretty difficult to judge our forward line when we don't get the ball past the centre for most of the game.

It's actually silly to do so based on last weeks game where we were smashed in the middle

But I was judging it on last season (Our worst forward performance for the last 50 years) and looking for areas and signs of where we can improve this aspect.
What players have we added to take up the slack.
Our problem wasn't getting the ball forward last year...although delivery was to some extent.
But it was more what happened when it got there.
Players like Jack and Harry will improve the situation down the track ...but for season 2016 a lot has to go right.

We can whack a couple of goals onto the tallies of players from last year and say "there we are, problem solved" but it's a guess at best.

Re: NAB Challenge: Carlton vs. Sydney at Etihad

Reply #23 – March 02, 2016, 08:11:37 am

Getting the ball into our F50 and kicking straight once it's in there are of course two separate issues.

One obvious way of minimizing turnovers is simply to pass less and run and carry more. Have speedsters off the HB line and around the stoppages, and bounce/run/carry the ball into the F50, linking with other players via short ball movements like hand passing. Run the opposition off their feet and don't give them a chance to get the pill. Essentially what Ratts was doing.

Of course, like any strategy, it has pluses and minuses, and whether we have the list to do this is open to question. But given our turnovers are major coach, player and fan killers, it's worth a look.

Re: NAB Challenge: Carlton vs. Sydney at Etihad

Reply #24 – March 02, 2016, 09:01:26 am

Quote from: cookie2 on March 01, 2016, 10:59:59 pm

Is the problem of poor performance in the F50 one of our mids being incapable of good delivery or one of our forwards not creating anything to deliver it to, or being incapable of doing much if it is delivered to them, or a combination of all these things (plus more!)? I'll be very interested to see if we try anything different v. the Swans.

It's a team sport, so it's definitely both. Also I believe another big issue is between the ears - Walks last year said that he couldn't really account for the match day performances, because at training, everything falls into place and works beautifully. But clearly not in matches.

Re: NAB Challenge: Carlton vs. Sydney at Etihad

Reply #25 – March 02, 2016, 09:37:20 am

We have no idea what reduced interchanges will do to scoring ability this year.

It could do a variety of things.

1. Open the game up after half time. Tired legs run better forward than they do backwards.

2. It could end up in bigger blowouts, where mature teams have an advantage of being battle heartened and fitter, meaning they are really able to steam roll teams from start to finish and will score frequently.

3. It could be a tightly contested match where scoring is not easy and we see a reduction in goals.

4. It could result in more momentum swings where teams score heavily quickly.

Realistically we have no way of knowing how coaches are going to combat it, but I would say that they are going to be drilled to play zonal defense, along with open attack and will pick and choose when to swing between them. This will result in different matches being played differently depending on the coaches, but the actual results are going to be difficult to predict from now.

Re: NAB Challenge: Carlton vs. Sydney at Etihad

Reply #26 – March 02, 2016, 09:37:37 am

Goals & the forward line are the key , some players are natural goal kickers & some aren't. We dont have a small forward who has a quiet day and can bob up with 2-3 goals eg Garlett. The players who missed last week are seasoned players , they have there goal averages per game based upon how they have played for many seasons, just because we dont have Bell as an example doesnt mean that some one will step up & double there goal averages .
Extra goals wont come from the seasoned players , we need to look at the new players & there within lies the problem. Little history of their out put , and our expectation for them to lead the way re goals is going to be wishful at best.
Looking at the last 5 years Betts, Waite, Garlett, Bell , Hendo, one of them you could count on to pick up 3/4/5 in a game and be the nucleus of our goal scoring for the game. I doubt we will average 10 goals a game this season , not because of the quality of the players , as there were some great signs even from last weeks game. But doesn't transfer to score board pressure. its the player mix we need to change & I am sure thats part of the grand plan . Unfortunately not scoring is a negative effect on the side after awhile , all their efforts not only not achieving a win , but showing a lack of ability to create scoreboard pressure leaves a feeling of under achievement. It also will impact on the memberships and general feeling around the club. If you are loosing but still kicking goals you feel like you're in with a shot, it not ....
Love Levi, but he is not our answer , never will be the key forward eg Waite, Lance etc , not in his make up, but he is the best option we have right now . I understand we are all for the new 3-4 year plan, but I think we missed somewhere in remembering we need to be serviceable as part of the plan going forward.

Re: NAB Challenge: Carlton vs. Sydney at Etihad

Reply #27 – March 02, 2016, 11:50:37 am

Our midfielders don't kick goals.

Dangerfield 21
Swan 21
Pendlebury 15
S Hill 17
Fyfe 17
Barlow 16
Motlop 26
I Smith 23
Hodge 21
B Hill 16
B Harvey 24
R Gray 25
Deledio 27
Martin 24
Grigg lol 16
L Parker 18
Heeney 16
Kennedy (Syd) 15
Hannebery 15
Shuey 24
Bontempelli 17
Dahlhaus 17
Wallis 15

M Murphy 7
P. Cripps 6
Gibbs 4 (10 games)
Carrazzo 1
Curnow 0

Re: NAB Challenge: Carlton vs. Sydney at Etihad

Reply #28 – March 02, 2016, 11:58:54 am

That was under the previous regime, not sure if you noticed but not many goals were scored with our prehistoric gameplan. I would venture to say that pound for pound our midfielders still kicked their share of goals.

Re: NAB Challenge: Carlton vs. Sydney at Etihad

Reply #29 – March 02, 2016, 12:02:15 pm

Quote from: madbluboy on March 02, 2016, 11:50:37 am

Our midfielders don't kick goals.

Dangerfield 21
Swan 21
Pendlebury 15
S Hill 17
Fyfe 17
Barlow 16
Motlop 26
I Smith 23
Hodge 21
B Hill 16
B Harvey 24
R Gray 25
Deledio 27
Martin 24
Grigg lol 16
L Parker 18
Heeney 16
Kennedy (Syd) 15
Hannebery 15
Shuey 24
Bontempelli 17
Dahlhaus 17
Wallis 15

M Murphy 7
P. Cripps 6
Gibbs 4 (10 games)
Carrazzo 1
Curnow 0

I'm safely assuming those are 2015 stats ?

Just as an example, Murph kicked 22 in 2011.