http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/blues-seeing-red-after-drunken-punchup-20151209-glk0dr.html
Is there a proper sub forum for posting about off field indiscretions ?
Was only a matter of time that the bubble of blues goodness burst at Ikon Park. Hopefully the young fella learns from this and bounces back bigger and better.
Just delist him now and be done with it.
Not what the kid needed in a season with a new coaching group to watch closely over the playing group.
Not good!
Sounds like some extra sessions in a boxing gym would help.
Yarran came to his rescue! ::)
Yarran came to his rescue! ::)
That's not surprising. It would have been a "shame job" for Smith and he would have felt a lot less uncomfortable with another Noongar.
Shame about this. Lets hope he gets through it OK (and can put in some more time on the speedball).
Hopefully he learns something from it.
New Carlton coach Brendon Bolton has already read the proverbial riot act to Smith, who was involved in a drunken fight last weekend in the Chapel Street precinct.
This is an important change of approach, straight & direct it seems.
The other thing is, how he reacts to this indiscretion will either make Smith as a player or completely finish his career at Carlton.
Garlett & Robinson didn't fare to well after their late-night box on but they did lie about the circumstances which did amp up the seriousness of the issue.
This is an important change of approach, straight & direct it seems.
The other thing is, how he reacts to this indiscretion will either make Smith as a player or completely finish his career at Carlton.
Garlett & Robinson didn't fare to well after their late-night box on but they did lie about the circumstances which did amp up the seriousness of the issue.
Yes, this is his make or break moment. He will learn and move forward or he won't and he will be delisted. Two options only.
Statement from the club:
The Carlton Football Club can confirm that Clem Smith was involved in an altercation on Saturday night, while intoxicated.
Although police attended, Smith cooperated and immediately went home. No charges have been laid.
Carlton CEO Steven Trigg said:
“We are clearly disappointed as we’ve worked really hard to reset our standards, values and behaviours. It has been reinforced to Clem, and the rest of the playing group, that this type of behaviour will not be tolerated.
“Clem has apologised to his teammates and was obviously very remorseful. As a consequence of his actions he will undertake additional training as well as broader education.”
“This is not a lesson just for Clem, but to our whole playing group that this type of behavior is simply unacceptable. We expect all of our players to uphold the highest possible standards.”
Cut him loose now, pay his contract out. You either have standards or you don't
Strike 1.
Hope he learns.
Disappointed he came off second best in the altercation and the fact he was there in the first place......he will either learn something and never do it again or be delisted if he does...lets give the kid another chance as I like his attack on the footy and his tackling...
The club seemed to have handled it ok ...season cant start quick enough I reckon, players are getting bored already...
The training reports on Smith were glowing so it doesn't appear to have had too much of an impact. Perhaps he's got more of a point to prove.
I reckon he deserves another chance and I hope the new coaching panel will back themselves in to deal with transgressions like this.
Strike 1.
Hope he learns.
Spot on, while disappointed that this happened in the 1st place, the next best thing is that Smith learns from it and never repeats.
A good, honest, professional response from the club too, gets a tick from me.
Obviously things like this should be avoided but...
I see this at this time in our clubs "reset" as great timing.
This challenges the new hierarchy and Boltons leadership and standards.
BB has come down hard and so the standard has be set.
Clem will learn and move on, as will the other players, the club has handled it well.
Reprimanded him but has also brought him back into the fold to care for him. Just like a family would.
Those of you asking he be cut loose are way off the mark. BB is instilling the...
If you succeed then let's celebrate it but if you f$@k up then LEARN from it mantra.
Very disappointing to hear about this however I'd like to get all the facts before passing judgement.
That's not surprising. It would have been a "shame job" for Smith and he would have felt a lot less uncomfortable with another Noongar.
He probably would have felt less uncomfortable with less piss in him! ;)
It sounds as though the club has handled this sensibly.
Nowhere near as serious as the Ninthmond fiasco.
Cut him loose now, pay his contract out. You either have standards or you don't
I think you give him another chance but that was a bizarre comment from Trigg: We don't tolerate this behaviour, except we will.
Disappointed he came off second best in the altercation and the fact he was there in the first place......he will either learn something and never do it again or be delisted if he does...lets give the kid another chance as I like his attack on the footy and his tackling...
The club seemed to have handled it ok ...season cant start quick enough I reckon, players are getting bored already...
Agreed, a 2nd year player on the piss during the pre-season, like he needs any more obstacles to make it as a player! He's barely cutting the mustard as it stands!
And coming after all those reports of an improved atmosphere at the club, the pessimist in me detects more spin!
Now the paranoid, why is a Nthmond player rescuing a Carlton player just days after the Dusty events emerged? Was the kid lured out on the piss? Not an excuse, he has free will, but hard to imagine any AFL player could make such a mistake voluntarily just days after the Martin incident!
Finally, you have to wonder why Caro's Rage goes front page with this story, headlining above the Martin police investigation, and the Hun doesn't even bother to report Clem's adventure yet, or at least it seems to have pulled it's version for now! Perhaps the balance Caro had to strike in the Dusty story left a bitter taste in her mouth for which the front page potting of a Carlton player was the only cure!
The Rage boosting this Clem story is using The Fly reporting technique. The Fly saw a massive pile of Rhino crap(Dusty) and while zig zagging on route to the Rhino crap nirvana it got distracted by a bird dropping(Clem)!
Now the paranoid, why is a Nthmond player rescuing a Carlton player just days after the Dusty events emerged? Was the kid lured out on the piss? Not an excuse, he has free will, but hard to imagine any AFL player could make such a mistake voluntarily just days after the Martin incident!
Both incidents happened on Saturday night . . .
@LP
It's not that we're paranoid LP, it's just that everyone's out to get us. ;)
Stop being a wet blanket, DJC. Don't let the facts get in the way of a good conspiracy theory!
Agreed, a 2nd year player on the piss during the pre-season, like he needs any more obstacles to make it as a player! He's barely cutting the mustard as it stands!
And coming after all those reports of an improved atmosphere at the club, the pessimist in me detects more spin!
Now the paranoid, why is a Nthmond player rescuing a Carlton player just days after the Dusty events emerged? Was the kid lured out on the piss? Not an excuse, he has free will, but hard to imagine any AFL player could make such a mistake voluntarily just days after the Martin incident!
Finally, you have to wonder why Caro's Rage goes front page with this story, headlining above the Martin police investigation, and the Hun doesn't even bother to report Clem's adventure yet, or at least it seems to have pulled it's version for now! Perhaps the balance Caro had to strike in the Dusty story left a bitter taste in her mouth for which the front page potting of a Carlton player was the only cure!
The Rage boosting this Clem story is using The Fly reporting technique. The Fly saw a massive pile of Rhino crap(Dusty) and while zig zagging on route to the Rhino crap nirvana it got distracted by a bird dropping(Clem)!
I'm guessing Yarran is a close friend hence came and got him. You can have friends outside your club. Yarran's last game was for Carlton anyway. Your friends don't even have to play football. Martin and Smith transgressed on the same night, it wasn't after.
19yo's are, well, 19yo's. All been 19. That won't change because they are play AFL football. Some are immature and make mistakes. From here though you learn from that mistake. I'm sure Bolton's foot clean up his arse and the fine that's coming will help that learning along. One mistake we can handle, especially for a kid, a second mistake we don't tolerate quite as easily. If he does it again he'd want to be play some real good footy otherwise he will be playing elsewhere, likely in the WAFL.
Cut him loose now, pay his contract out. You either have standards or you don't
Standards need to be consistent though. Would you delist Patrick Cripps if he did the same thing? I dare say not. Punishment should fit the crime. Clem's made a poor choice, but he's also a 19 year old boy and he'll (hopefully) learn from this. If this becomes a pattern of behaviour, then you intervene with a harsher penalty. But you need to give a kid a chance to learn first.
Standards need to be consistent though. Would you delist Patrick Cripps if he did the same thing? I dare say not. Punishment should fit the crime. Clem's made a poor choice, but he's also a 19 year old boy and he'll (hopefully) learn from this. If this becomes a pattern of behaviour, then you intervene with a harsher penalty. But you need to give a kid a chance to learn first.
Amen. For some to suggest he should be delisted as a result of this, especially when none of us know the full story, is beyond stupidity.
Just delist him now and be done with it.
For that?
He's 19 ffs, he got pissed and got in a fight - wonder how many other 19 year olds did exactly the same thing that weekend.
Not good but everyone, especially young men, screw up from time to time. How could you possible call for him to be delisted for that now? Altho I do wonder what effect Yaz not being at CfC will have on Clem.
Let's hope he learnt his lesson and decides to go to the gym rather than the pub!
Its December guys.
Lets look at the frame of this in context.
Smith may very well have been king hit whilst out on the town, and I dont really see an issue with him being out on the town in early december. As much as these guys are going to have less leeway for this stuff in public moving forward, surely the emphasis on these incidents need to be considered as undesirable but understandable.
Between January and October is another kettle of fish.
A young player who was bought in under the old regime, when those players are being cleaned out ASAP, Clem needs to be doing it better that everyone else and looking at his pics after he came back to training he didn't look in great shape either.
I'm afraid that Clem will be gone at the end of this season, hasn't shown anything great when given a senior game, doesn't have an elite AFL skill that makes the club want to continue with him, this will only put him up the delisting pile even further.
Its December guys.
Lets look at the frame of this in context.
Smith may very well have been king hit whilst out on the town, and I dont really see an issue with him being out on the town in early december. As much as these guys are going to have less leeway for this stuff in public moving forward, surely the emphasis on these incidents need to be considered as undesirable but understandable.
Between January and October is another kettle of fish.
Smith may have been king hit and Dustin stabbed the woman in the eye with a chopstick for no reason. Got to love how fans stick up for their own but stick the knife in when it's another team.
Smith may have been king hit and Dustin stabbed the woman in the eye with a chopstick for no reason. Got to love how fans stick up for their own but stick the knife in when it's another team.
....and people who use a false equivalence are usually a bit thick.
Smith may have been king hit and Dustin stabbed the woman in the eye with a chopstick for no reason. Got to love how fans stick up for their own but stick the knife in when it's another team.
That would be a chopstick in this case..lol
Reckon there might be some difference though between a little drunken altercation and someone threatening to stab someone in the eye with a chopstick. You think so? I know your smarter than that. I think sticking the chopstick into the player from the other side while excusing our's for a minor incidence for a first offence at 19yo is appropriate in this case. If he does it a 2nd time, make no mistake, our supporters will be tougher as he should've learnt your lesson.
Smith may have been king hit and Dustin stabbed the woman in the eye with a chopstick for no reason. Got to love how fans stick up for their own but stick the knife in when it's another team.
Don't put these situations in the same boat, Smith drunk and got into with another guy.
Martin - Drunk and or drug affected, was asked to keep it down in a restaurant, threatened to kill and stab the woman while standing over her then hit the wall beside her head with force. All allegedly.
There are obviously no parallels between the two cases IMO. Smith was just doing what a lot of young guys do and was unlucky he was in the wrong place at the wrong time. He has now learned what it is to be an AFL player and will hopefully be more mindful of that in future, Martin on the other hand........................
This has come at a great time for the club IMO and for Clem.
We are talking about a Reset, so this is a great time to test the new coaching staff and leadership group when things don't go our way. We have come out to address the issue head on (which I like), Clem has been forced to apologise and extra training sessions. Good.
He is a 19 year old Kid who is not even been living in Melbourne 12 months, trying to find his way. I cut him a little slack, but not much.
By all reports he has come back fit and is flying in the pre-season. I am laughing at all those writing him off after pretty good development in his FIRST YEAR of FOOTBALL. played 7 games as a pick 60 odd after being drafted in November.
This is his line in the sand moment, the club have handled it pretty well and it's up to Clem to let his actions now speak for themselves.
I'm glad to hear that the events happened the same evening,
those facts make it even more suspicious that The Rage published the story the evening before the Dusty verdict was initially due, and The Hun chose not to have a story at all at the time is a stark contrast! I stand by my earlier Caro criticism, in fact knowing the Clem story was delayed many days has made things even more suspicious. It's even more likely that it's a distraction for Nthmond media boosters and has no substance at all!
Perhaps Clem is off to Nthmond next year, that'll cost Nthmond a late 2nd Rnd thank-you very much! ;)
Which may be the best thing for everybody, as I'm seriously over fat kids who struggle to make an impact at AFL level thinking getting on the booze in pre-season is Okilly Dokilly. Nobody owes this kid an AFL career, and Old Timers like Murphy and Simmo must be sick to death of seeing their professionalism derailed by two bob spuds! FFS, they must feel like throwing up in the ice baths or at their recovery sessions every time one of "The Boyz" roll off the rails! For me it's an early sign that Clem is not cut out for AFL, he either struggles with the physical demands or the mental demands, but either way he struggles.
The real tragedy is there may be a dozen kids with a similar level of capability who would cut off their arm to be given the opportunity this lad is getting.
Clem Smith, just another MM failure to add to the growing list of crape MM era decisions!
Smith may have been king hit and Dustin stabbed the woman in the eye with a chopstick for no reason. Got to love how fans stick up for their own but stick the knife in when it's another team.
Actually, I never really went after Dusty.
Regardless, I don't see the parallel between a 19 year old who had a mishap with another bloke out on the town, and a 25 year old with a fairly colourful array of misdemeanors to his name who should know much better.
In any case, the real question is, why on earth do we expect so much out of blokes who chase a ball around as their full time job? Some of them are going to be fine updstanding citizens, and others are going to be at best, morons. The only issue is when they cross the line between what is widely accepted as really insidious behaviour.
There are two separate issues in this incident IMO :
1. drinking heavily (allegedly)
2. a bit of argy bargy
With point 1, an individual has complete control over how much or little alcohol they consume. This is the aspect for which I would be filthy at Clem, since he should not have been that plastered to begin with (assuming he was).
With point 2, an individual has less control over provocation, actions, intimation, threats etc. by others. Whilst we can say he should've just walked away, in the heat of the moment this is not always easy to do. Given the fact that the police don't expect to lay charges, and that he came off second best, I wonder if he was provoked and just got carried away.
Don't put these situations in the same boat, Smith drunk and got into with another guy.
Martin - Drunk and or drug affected, was asked to keep it down in a restaurant, threatened to kill and stab the woman while standing over her then hit the wall beside her head with force. All allegedly.
I've heard that whilst Martin admits he was out of line the woman was far from innocent and was actually going to be asked to leave herself before Dusty blew up. Allegedly lol.
I've heard that whilst Martin admits he was out of line the woman was far from innocent and was actually going to be asked to leave herself before Dusty blew up. Allegedly lol.
How dare a diner ask a celebrity guest to behave in a civil manner.
Off with her Head! :o
Damn ordinary people, getting in the way of the Good Ol AFL'rs, there should be a law against it! ;)
Women, walls, banging, is Dusty related to Abbott? ::)
How dare a diner ask a celebrity guest to behave in a civil manner.
Off with her Head! :o
Were you there?
Were you there?
Were you?
So lets get this straight, your saying Dusty's alleged actions might be justified by the threatening or otherwise non-threatening behaviour of a medium to smallish woman with a waving finger!
Fair enough then, you've convinced me! :-\
No but I'm not saying anything and trying to pass it off as fact, that's your caper.
I've heard another side to the story that the woman was just as vile and abusive as Martin was and Richmond have welcomed the police investigation because the truth can't get any worse than the picture being painted by the media at the moment.
No but I'm not saying anything and trying to pass it off as fact, that's your caper.
I've heard another side to the story that the woman was just as vile and abusive as Martin was and Richmond have welcomed the police investigation because the truth can't get any worse than the picture being painted by the media at the moment.
So you really do think there a point at which the female's behaviour which justifies Dusty's behaviour, I'm shocked!
I can understand Nthmond pushing this line, but that is really just as piss poor as saying she had it coming!
Dusty and his friends could have easily left the venue or called the police as well if it was justified. But it seems people called the police based on Dusty's behaviour. Yet even if she was behaving abhorrently that still doesn't justify an AFL trained athlete who is 86kg of muscle standing nearly 6'3" using force or abuse as a method of dispute resolution with a woman.
There is no grey area in this regard, and anyone who thinks there is just contributes to the problem.
Were you there?
Were you? If not not we can only take it at face value until we hear something more substantial otherwise. I'm sure if she was misbehaving herself she wouldn't get too worried about someone else misbehaving. Either way, no excuse for holding a chopstick above someone and threatening to stab someone in the eye no matter how the other person behaves.
Were you? If not not we can only take it at face value until we hear something more substantial otherwise. I'm sure if she was misbehaving herself she wouldn't get too worried about someone else misbehaving. Either way, no excuse for holding a chopstick above someone and threatening to stab someone in the eye no matter how the other person behaves.
I'm not taking any position on this despite what LP is trying to make out.
I just posted what I heard and that the chopstick threat and wall slamming wasn't as threatening as it has been made out to be.
Richmond believe if there is CCTV footage it will help Martin.
There is already mobile phone footage of Martin standing over the lady with a chop stick in her face. Martin is nothing more than a braindead bikie apologist who would more than likely be in jail if he couldn't play football well. That just about sums it up.
I'm not taking any position on this despite what LP is trying to make out.
Don't turn your back on violence against women! Didn't the AFL run a campaign recently to stamp this out? Take a position, do not turn your back!
Draw The Line at Youtube with Bonty (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSuiLKQJRy4)
As Dangerfield says; Youtube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etStIN0oNH0)
Burger says it too! Burgoyne (https://youtu.be/jrZQSX5mgOk)
Is this just lip service Mr AFL?
I think someone has forgotten to take their meds today.
(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/3jSVr_r9G4o/hqdefault.jpg)
I think someone has forgotten to take their meds today.
I prefer the gravy! ;)
Don't turn your back on me either! :o :D
Not like the AFL has a culture of persecuting women, by the way did EFC ever find that mother?
Move on guys please, lets not get personal.
Bizarre how you're always happy to let it go when it's personal against me until I respond.
MBB, you didn't post a question over whether Dusty did it or not, instead you posted an assertion that the behaviour of the woman was being brought into question.
What am I to think?
I just heard a replay of some of Bolton's interview on SEN this morning. He was asked whether Smith was on his last chance and his response was along the lines that you have to consider the particular circumstances of an incident before determining an appropriate response. In other words, a targetted response rather than a formulaic one.
He also stressed that the incident was a learning experience for the entire club and I think that encapsulates his approach to coaching.
I reckon we've got a keeper!
I just heard a replay of some of Bolton's interview on SEN this morning. He was asked whether Smith was on his last chance and his response was along the lines that you have to consider the particular circumstances of an incident before determining an appropriate response. In other words, a targetted response rather than a formulaic one.
He also stressed that the incident was a learning experience for the entire club and I think that encapsulates his approach to coaching.
I reckon we've got a keeper!
I heard his thoughts on the incident also, very impressive. We did alright with the last Hawthorn bloke we got also ;)
I just heard a replay of some of Bolton's interview on SEN this morning. He was asked whether Smith was on his last chance and his response was along the lines that you have to consider the particular circumstances of an incident before determining an appropriate response. In other words, a targetted response rather than a formulaic one.
He also stressed that the incident was a learning experience for the entire club and I think that encapsulates his approach to coaching.
I reckon we've got a keeper!
Exactly...Refer my earlier post... :)
Obviously things like this should be avoided but...
I see this at this time in our clubs "reset" as great timing.
This challenges the new hierarchy and Boltons leadership and standards.
BB has come down hard and so the standard has be set.
Clem will learn and move on, as will the other players, the club has handled it well.
Reprimanded him but has also brought him back into the fold to care for him. Just like a family would.
Those of you asking he be cut loose are way off the mark. BB is instilling the...
If you succeed then let's celebrate it but if you f$@k up then LEARN from it mantra.
I heard his thoughts on the incident also, very impressive. We did alright with the last Hawthorn bloke we got also ;)
Harford was shizen. ;)
Harford was shizen. ;)
:))
Smith is just a kid...same as Curnow.
But they'll learn quickly or they won't be around.
If Bolton's worth his salt he'll give him the "rounds of the kitchen" privately and then show him some support publicly...as seems to have happened.
But Clem will definitely be on notice.
Harford was shizen. ;)
I just vomited in my mouth :-[
:))
Smith is just a kid...same as Curnow.
But they'll learn quickly or they won't be around.
If Bolton's worth his salt he'll give him the "rounds of the kitchen" privately and then show him some support publicly...as seems to have happened.
But Clem will definitely be on notice.
I agree with you Lods. Curnow and Smith have both made mistakes but they will be told certain mistakes can be a learning experience, but they better all learn quick as a collective group.
If they don't learn quickly there's the door don't come back
In the past, players may have been able to get away with a slap on the wrist for some of their misdemeanours. Now, there is a heavier scrutiny on standards and Bolton will be reinforcing what is expected from everyone.
Smith will be given the opportunity to atone for his actions and I'd like to think that he will be assigned a mentor for the next 12-months to provide guidance and advice.
I genuinely like the kid, reckon he will turn out to be an alright player if he wants to knuckle down and train hard, follow the ethos around the club and respect the chance he has been given.
In the past, players may have been able to get away with a slap on the wrist for some of their misdemeanours. Now, there is a heavier scrutiny on standards and Bolton will be reinforcing what is expected from everyone.
Smith will be given the opportunity to atone for his actions and I'd like to think that he will be assigned a mentor for the next 12-months to provide guidance and advice.
I genuinely like the kid, reckon he will turn out to be an alright player if he wants to knuckle down and train hard, follow the ethos around the club and respect the chance he has been given.
Is there a cultural change Shiek?
In the recent past senior team-mates would be out in the media lambasting the kid. The media would be calling for a head after a distinct lack of support being shown by the club.
Instead this time the club publishes a statement and then Armfield comes out and says we are all right behind Clem and supporting him, the media has gone quiet.
It's almost the exact opposite of how we behaved in the recent past, and the opposite of the results we got! Lets hope that continues with Smith.