My God, did we play poorly.
Hmmm..I'll just post what I said last week...
1. We picked too many one paced players. We need to get Buckley, Boekhorst and Graham in. They are the future. The fact that a slow, dithering Carrots gets a game means that we are not building a side at all. He is past it. Has he ever kicked the ball within 5 seconds of receiving it and allowing the opposition to get set up? Graham needs the game time. As does Buckley.
2. Lack of Character in the playing group. I get the feeling that if we are 0-3 or worse and we are no chance of getting inside the 8, which you can pretty much lock in, that we'll get a new coach and begin a true 3-5 year rebuild. Malthouse has cleared out a lot of dead wood, I'll give him that. But I tell you what, young Boekhorst better be some player or that round 1 selection looks horrendous. Was he not played due to injury? Simply put, I'll repeat what I and others have said time and time again: Play on performance, not on seniority. If you don't play well, hello Northern Blues. ANY PLAYER. 0 Exception. That will instill some spirit and desire.
3. Malthouse needs to go. I want a rebuild, with a new coach. Get Clarkson and sign him up and let him who whatever the hell he wants. He has proven that he gets results. Can you imagine the players not performing under him. You'd soil yourself from his dressing down. Then again, the results would instill loyalty. It's time to go shopping for a new, innovative coach, who is giving a mandate to rebuild. It's up to the President and CEO to make that call and realise that we are more likely to get back to the club we were by starting fresh that we are dithering around the edges. Look at the Doggies...4-5 new kids make some difference. They are good to watch too.
4. Henderson needs to go back permanently and we need to bring back the Bolt. Hendo, as much as he wants to, is not a leading Forward...but he is bloody good in the backline. We all know it. We also need to pray for young Giles to get well..I fear that Jammo is getting to the stage where only has 1 or 2 years left. His glass shoulders don't help either.
5. I want the kids played. Literally. Stuff the senior players. Shame them. You don't play for yourself. You play for a club. You play for me and everyone on this Forum, you play for every poor bugger out there working on $15 an hour shoveling crap, every Kid, every Grandparent, every single one who has a piece of Carlton in them. Remind them of that. Buckley, Watson, Cripps, Graham, Boekhorst, Tutt, Whiley. Pump games into them. What is the point of maybe winning games with players who will not be around when next we challenge..what's the point..? None.
6. Murphy needs to be stripped of the Captaincy. It sends a GOOD message. not a bad one. It shakes things up. He simply is not the man for the job. Don't kid yourself that things will improve with him as a pretender. Potential Captains? Only 2 of them. And no, Simmo and Carrots are not the future. So no to them.
Henderson - as CHB. Natural leader, who is also articulate in front of the camera. Also good way to retain him without selling the Ranch.
White consistently performs to his absolute potential, follows instructions and most importantly - will not step back. I like that. In fact I love that he does that. Saw him give it to Martin last night. Cheered me up.
Cripps - As a special mention. Maybe, just maybe in a couple years he will be a bonafide leader. For now, leave him be to learn as much as he can.
It has come to the stage already that I cannot see a silver lining with Malthouse and Murphy leading. We need both gone and Trigg to hire a truly inspirational new Coach with a mandate to start fresh. Trade Kreuzer, Walker, Gibbs, Murphy...do it. Do it this year. Get as many 1st and 2nd round picks and get those Mids and true Key Forward. Just don't trade Hendo nor Menzel unless its for a true Key Forward or Bontempelli like Mid. That is where we are hurting the most. The amount of times they bombed it in from the second quarter...I knew we'd loose. No plan, no inspiration on or off the field. No character. Time for Trigg to have a quiet word with replacement coaches and tell SoS to start writing his shopping list up.
My God, did we play poorly.
Possibly the worst game we have played since the game that got Pagan sacked. WC had no backline and an ordinary midfield FFS and we were absolutely awful against that.
OK guys, play nicely. There is plenty of misery to be had without person attacks. It was getting a tad heated back there. Time to settle a bit before you vent. God knows we need a damn good venting.
No youth is a bit harsh.
You can add in No senior players and no middle tier players as well. ;)
We need to drop anyone in the midfield who is incapable of applying pressure when we don't have the ball.
That would account for about half of JKs goals right there.
We have traded picks to add players to the Murph/Gibbs age bracket. Bulldogs and Demons have more bottom age talent. It's looks very bleak.
What a lovely evening, it was great to see our boys out there. I love the way they go about the game, so freely, so much invention, so innovative. Fast ball movement, creation of space, excellent use of subs and perfect match day planning. Tactical genius, effort, hardness at the ball, skills, marking, decision making.
We have it all!
It's hard to imagine us being beaten! ;)
We'll have 80,000 members before the mid-season break!
i d like to turn the spotlight on Andrew Mckay for the minute.
He's the head of football at this club.
should he be or is he the head of recruitment for external skills coaches?
What the FK does Andrew Mckay do?
We are rock bottom after that display. the CFC is officially in crisis - or should be. Our guys are so mentally fragile now I'd be surprised if we won a game this year, indeed to paraphrase "I can't see us winning a game all year!"
I'll repeat my last statement on the other thread here.
I have once again to pay my membership by a complete load of cr@p sent out by the club.
Spirit? What Spirit?
Bullshiiite on bullshiiite.
This mob are a rabble.
And we are staring down another 5/0 loss start.
mick couldn't see us losing a game, I can't see us winning one.
Just appalling but I have seen worse - a lot worse. Can't see it getting better next week though.
So many players out of form. I am sick of people spruking Troy Menzel. Has shown nothing for a long time
Might as well just use Shadesy's post match summary that he wrote at 1.00 this afternoon ::)
We looked really good for the first 45 minutes, skipping away to a 24 point lead early in the second. The Midfield were on top early, and defensive pressure was good. However Carrazzo took a knock early and had to go off and Smith came on as Sub early again. We missed some really easy shots on goal. Should of been more up. Levi was a good presecene but 0 goals 2 and 1 out on the full is not good enough.
Priddis started to win the hitout advantages and racked them up, the umpires got involved and the eagles kicked 4 in a row to take a small lead into half time. Liam Duggan on Debut finished with 25 possessions and 2 goals.
They kicked the first 2 in the third, and our plans were thrown out, our mids started to not chase, and our Defence was all over the place, missing targets and giving to much easy ball from the midfield. Murphy and Gibbs started trying to get easy kicks and Judd was manhandled at every contest. When we won the ball we chipped it around slowly, trying to pierce the zone, but our skills were not good enough in the wet conditions.
Henderson and Jones gave no forward presence and the ball rebounded easily from our front half, where they cut us up through the middle.
White and Rowe kicked some late goals, but we ran out of puff to lose by 23 points.
Malthouse told the media the Eagles are a very good football side and we need to stick to our structures better, and he is not concerned about his job.
Blokes fly home that night and get on Twitter and Instagram to say they will try harder next week.
There's my report, I can just sit back an drink now?
Before anyone starts regurgitating the same cliches from the in-game thread....
Josh Kennedy: "Our guys in the middle showed dominance and made it easy for us."
"Our boys in the middle who were delivering the footy were on and made it so much easier for us."
"They dropped a few back, but i think it was our transistion and the way we moved the footy, it worked well."
Yes, we did drop numbers back
Yes, it was because we had little or no midfield pressure that made the forwards job easy.
So no, it was not Jamos fault.
That takes care of about 1/4 of the complaints people had.
Wow.....
We're bad. Real bad.
MM has seriously screwed this club to the extent that we are now in the framework of wooden spoon contenders.
Hmmm..I'll just post what I said last week...
1. We picked too many one paced players. We need to get Buckley, Boekhorst and Graham in. They are the future. The fact that a slow, dithering Carrots gets a game means that we are not building a side at all. He is past it. Has he ever kicked the ball within 5 seconds of receiving it and allowing the opposition to get set up? Graham needs the game time. As does Buckley.
2. Lack of Character in the playing group. I get the feeling that if we are 0-3 or worse and we are no chance of getting inside the 8, which you can pretty much lock in, that we'll get a new coach and begin a true 3-5 year rebuild. Malthouse has cleared out a lot of dead wood, I'll give him that. But I tell you what, young Boekhorst better be some player or that round 1 selection looks horrendous. Was he not played due to injury? Simply put, I'll repeat what I and others have said time and time again: Play on performance, not on seniority. If you don't play well, hello Northern Blues. ANY PLAYER. 0 Exception. That will instill some spirit and desire.
3. Malthouse needs to go. I want a rebuild, with a new coach. Get Clarkson and sign him up and let him who whatever the hell he wants. He has proven that he gets results. Can you imagine the players not performing under him. You'd soil yourself from his dressing down. Then again, the results would instill loyalty. It's time to go shopping for a new, innovative coach, who is giving a mandate to rebuild. It's up to the President and CEO to make that call and realise that we are more likely to get back to the club we were by starting fresh that we are dithering around the edges. Look at the Doggies...4-5 new kids make some difference. They are good to watch too.
4. Henderson needs to go back permanently and we need to bring back the Bolt. Hendo, as much as he wants to, is not a leading Forward...but he is bloody good in the backline. We all know it. We also need to pray for young Giles to get well..I fear that Jammo is getting to the stage where only has 1 or 2 years left. His glass shoulders don't help either.
5. I want the kids played. Literally. Stuff the senior players. Shame them. You don't play for yourself. You play for a club. You play for me and everyone on this Forum, you play for every poor bugger out there working on $15 an hour shoveling crap, every Kid, every Grandparent, every single one who has a piece of Carlton in them. Remind them of that. Buckley, Watson, Cripps, Graham, Boekhorst, Tutt, Whiley. Pump games into them. What is the point of maybe winning games with players who will not be around when next we challenge..what's the point..? None.
6. Murphy needs to be stripped of the Captaincy. It sends a GOOD message. not a bad one. It shakes things up. He simply is not the man for the job. Don't kid yourself that things will improve with him as a pretender. Potential Captains? Only 2 of them. And no, Simmo and Carrots are not the future. So no to them.
Henderson - as CHB. Natural leader, who is also articulate in front of the camera. Also good way to retain him without selling the Ranch.
White consistently performs to his absolute potential, follows instructions and most importantly - will not step back. I like that. In fact I love that he does that. Saw him give it to Martin last night. Cheered me up.
Cripps - As a special mention. Maybe, just maybe in a couple years he will be a bonafide leader. For now, leave him be to learn as much as he can.
It has come to the stage already that I cannot see a silver lining with Malthouse and Murphy leading. We need both gone and Trigg to hire a truly inspirational new Coach with a mandate to start fresh. Trade Kreuzer, Walker, Gibbs, Murphy...do it. Do it this year. Get as many 1st and 2nd round picks and get those Mids and true Key Forward. Just don't trade Hendo nor Menzel unless its for a true Key Forward or Bontempelli like Mid. That is where we are hurting the most. The amount of times they bombed it in from the second quarter...I knew we'd loose. No plan, no inspiration on or off the field. No character. Time for Trigg to have a quiet word with replacement coaches and tell SoS to start writing his shopping list up.
clarkson aint going to come to carlton. He's painstakingly put a premiership team together and enjoy the fruits of his labour
why would he even contemplate coming to a rabble
i d like to turn the spotlight on Andrew Mckay for the minute.
He's the head of football at this club.
should he be or is he the head of recruitment for external skills coaches?
What the FK does Andrew Mckay do?
McKay had no experience a sticks mate appointment. .sack him
Midfield only run one way. Game over.
What the FK does Andrew Mckay do?
Pretty sure Macca is just an admin guy.
His biggest sin is allowing us to get in a position where we can't offload Mick midseason because there is no one to take the caretaker role.
I reckon we are a complete clean out and at least 5 years away from any joy.
I hope I live long enough to see that joy.
McKay had no experience a sticks mate appointment. .sack him
unless we have sick animals on the park? wtf does this guy do????
So many players out of form. I am sick of people spruking Troy Menzel. Has shown nothing for a long time
He's being played out of position possibly because he sees himself as a mid and the club don't want to lose him.
Coach's can try with this club but the tail seems to wag the dog. MM has always been able to at least get the best out of sides mentally but poor culture is so in-grained in this club that even he can't shake it. Unfortunately, if he can't then he has to go if the players won't play for him.
Let him get his record then that's it. Wouldn't surprise me if he got the record then resigned anyway. Who would want to coach this lot. Laidley can do the job for the rest of the season North always responded to him well and he got alot out of them. good luck to him here t5hough
Wonder how many look back on Ratts differently now. He actually got something out of the side. Fair effort seeing the on- field culture has been a disgrace since 2002.
We are rock bottom after that display. the CFC is officially in crisis - or should be. Our guys are so mentally fragile now I'd be surprised if we won a game this year, indeed to paraphrase "I can't see us winning a game all year!"
this.
MM has seriously screwed this club to the extent that we are now in the framework of wooden spoon contenders.
No swan sticks mckay gleeson rodgers mick made decisions ......they did footy decisions up to july.14
mckay rodgers mick up to now
Pretty sure Macca is just an admin guy.
His biggest sin is allowing us to get in a position where we can't offload Mick midseason because there is no one to take the caretaker role.
Id fk MM off anytime - 90% of members of this board can run a game better than he...for a can and a meat pie
Don't lose hope yet guys. We have a squad that could build 3 teams of netball players. We have enough skirts to fill easily. The no contact sport will suit them just fine.
WE NEED SOME PEPTIDES!!
ANYONE GOT STEPHEN DANKS PHONE NUMBER??? >:D >:D >:D >:D
I cannot think of anything positive to come out of tonight. It was a disaster of Biblical Proportions. Think Sodom and Gomorrah and you get the idea (and what they did to themselves was bad enough).
At the moment everything is doom and gloom. We need to change things around and get some confidence back. I have no idea how we do that.
I think the Weagles were reading my Structural Issues thread, as they found our weaknesses and drove a massive hole right through them.
[1] We got killed in the ruck. Not for a long time have I seen a ruck display that gave such an advantage to their midfielders.
[2] Our midfield is one way traffic. If we don't get it, it goes the other way far too easily and accurately. Our clearances, on the other hand, generally don't advantage out forwards.
[3] Our mids lack depth. After Judd got collared and NicNat got on top we had nobody to come in and do something special.
[4] Our forward line offers no pressure and has no effective small forward.
[5] Our defence struggled because the ball came in effectively and quickly. We were given few chances.
[6] In the first quarter we were really good. Our spirit was high and we had a lot of good players. It disappeared quickly thereafter.
Coach's can try with this club but the tail seems to wag the dog. MM has always been able to at least get the best out of sides mentally but poor culture is so in-grained in this club that even he can't shake it. Unfortunately, if he can't then he has to go if the players won't play for him.
Let him get his record then that's it. Wouldn't surprise me if he got the record then resigned anyway. Who would want to coach this lot. Laidley can do the job for the rest of the season North always responded to him well and he got alot out of them. good luck to him here t5hough
Wonder how many look back on Ratts differently now. He actually got something out of the side. Fair effort seeing the on- field culture has been a disgrace since 2002.
question is, i wonder how ratts sees the club
I reckon we are a complete clean out and at least 5 years away from any joy.
I hope I live long enough to see that joy.
Ive said 5 to 10yrs
Isn't this when we bring back Jezza to coach?
Shambles of a side, and in case noone else says it, the players must be the most disappointed. Something has gone awfully wrong tonight, more so than last week. They seemed rudderless tonight, against one of the weaker sides in the afl.
Simpson was good, everitt and bell played ok, gibbs got more involved but it fell away really fast after the first quarter. I dont see much point in potting individual players after such a defeat. Suffice to say we have alot of players that would not get a game with many other clubs, and most of all they dont seem to be playing as a team much.
What next? Try try again i guess.
Really insipid. We have wasted picks on recycled players, Tutt and Jones. This top up of younger mature aged players is not working. Clear as day. We cannot fully lay the blame on MM. The whole club has made very bad decisions.
Going forward, we need a new coach with new ideas. Load up on picks, I would even consider trading players that have some currency, of which we dont have many. Need a rebuild. Need kids.
We look slow and one paced. Quicker teams will tear us a new one.
[Scottish accent ON] We're on our way from happiness to misery today, uh-huh uh-huh uh-huh uh-huh [Scottish accent OFF]
Appalling, just appalling. I wonder what Gary Crane, Syd Jackson, Des English, Ken Hunter, Dean Rice, et al, think about our current crop of players.
Who stood up when Judd was shut down?
Why didn't anyone make life even a tiny bit 'difficult' for Rosa?
How come (as Shades has just proven) you can actually write the script for our games?
Wooden spoon, anyone?
In the pagan years we had Fev. Now there is nothing except mediocrity. We are worse than crap, not even VFL standard.
I'd be speaking to Ayres, we need a development coach before the current Muppets stuff the few kids we have. Malthouse is finished.
Lose to the saints in a fortnight and we wont win game this year.
Ive said 5 to 10yrs
i really dont think we'll see any joy for a generation.
wrong president, wrong coach, wrong CEO
and a playing list that is shot and sh1te
the spine of this organisation doesnt exist
I don't think MM would want to hang around anyway for a wooden spoon. I reckon if he believed that was going to happen he'd resign, and well in advance.
[Scottish accent ON] We're on our way from happiness to misery today, uh-huh uh-huh uh-huh uh-huh [Scottish accent OFF]
Appalling, just appalling. I wonder what Gary Crane, Syd Jackson, Des English, Ken Hunter, Dean Rice, et al, think about our current crop of players.
Who stood up when Judd was shut down?
Why didn't anyone make life even a tiny bit 'difficult' for Rosa?
How come (as Shades has just proven) you can actually write the script for our games?
Wooden spoon, anyone?
I'm just wondering if Shades has the lotto numbers for tomorrow too...lol.
Total disaster. We are now officially irrelevant.
Really insipid. We have wasted picks on recycled players, Tutt and Jones. This top up of younger mature aged players is not working. Clear as day. We cannot fully lay the blame on MM. The whole club has made very bad decisions.
Going forward, we need a new coach with new ideas. Load up on picks, I would even consider trading players that have some currency, of which we dont have many. Need a rebuild. Need kids.
We look slow and one paced. Quicker teams will tear us a new one.
same lame pr1ck that indentified the list as one that cant loose!
Essendon will rip us a new one next week. They will not let us get out of the blocks with a lead at quarter time. Hence, we could lose by nearly 100 points. Then the pressure on Mick will be huge. If not already so. I don't think we played this poor footy when Pagan was running the show. 12 goal turn around this match after a 50 point turn around is not the best way to start a season.
The once Mighty Carlton is no more. We are offically a basket case. Years of wrong decision has reduced this once great cub to an irrelevant backwater.
Might as will get rid of the Retro Emblem on the Gurnesy cos that is a disgrace to the great carlton side that wore it in the 70's and 80's.
i really dont think we'll see any joy for a generation.
wrong president, wrong coach, wrong CEO
and a playing list that is shot and sh1te
the spine of this organisation doesnt exist
President ceo are ok
players are there as a result of recruiting development and trading over 10 years
If Rowe gets a game next week, that's it for me.
I know I can't get a refund, but I will never renew my membership again.
clarkson aint going to come to carlton. He's painstakingly put a premiership team together and enjoy the fruits of his labour
why would he even contemplate coming to a rabble
Fine if not Clarkson, there must be alternatives.But the captain needs to go too. Drop kick. Trade them all..if the price is right....Get as many first rounders
and new coach set up. Just.Do.It.
It is going to be ugly next week.
We are worse than crap
Lose to the saints in a fortnight and we wont win game this year.
In my worst nightmares I didn't think this was possible, but you are 100% correct :(
Fine if not Clarkson, there must be alternatives.But the captain needs to go too. Drop kick. Trade them all..if the price is right....Get as many first rounders and new coach set up. Just.Do.It.
I said that this week
All players trade and or delist
Start again
Would many of our players get a first round pick in a trade ? If so which ? If we are going to take 5 years to turn this crap around, we need to build youth quickly. ;D
I said that this week
All players trade and or delist
Start again
Personally, I wouldn't have brought attention to that sort of comment again.
Jones and Tutt look like Bulldogs reserves players....
Smith..the poor kid has a go but needs time in the NB's
Henderson needs to play at CHB but we all know that...
Touhy needs dropping...one good goal and then just a bunch of turnovers..
Bell....some good some bad....its the same every week.
Casboult...great mark, woeful kick....whats new???
Docherty..ok again
Everitt...fair
Murphy....not enough
Gibbs...stats look good but no impact at all IMO
Judd..good early then taken out of the game by Rosa who has done it before..
Jamo....crap , got his ar$e kicked all night by Kennedy who continues to bite us on the bum after the Judd trade..
Wood..slaughtered by NitWit in the ruck
Simpson...battled on
Ellard..not good enough and should have been delisted like I keep saying every year..
Curnow...tags ok but not really up to playing on the elite mids and offers nothing else..another woeful kicking player
Menzel...not enough from him IMO...lacks a yard in pace...
Rowe...ordinary again and way out of form
Carrazzo...was dissapointing
The coach....another bad night at the office...once Simpson moved Rosa onto Judd it was over.....couldnt find a player for Priddis either and our ruck setup was just smashed by NitWit and he did little to change it up.....
Henderson, Casboult and Jones wont work....too top heavy and the Eagles just ran the ball out of defense easily......
It is going to be ugly next week.
Stick your head in the sand like an ostrich. Do it before the initial bounce. You will hear nothing and experience far less pain taking it up the preverbial.
The onfield exploits of this club are only a reflection of what has/is going on off-field. I can only hope that we are indeed taking steps to rectify those issues but that won't happen overnight. In the meantime we are probably in for a lot more of the pain we suffered again tonight and over an extended period.
No more patching up CFC, we need to look at rebuilding this club properly, even if it takes a few years. At least it would make the pain easier to bear if we knew we were systematically following a sound strategy and plan, rather than trying to paper over rapidly widening cracks.
Robert walls once told me that when he was coach of the bears and they would get done, on his way home, he worked out in his head that he needed to drop 17 of the 22 players the next week.
By Tuesday he'd calmed down and only made 2 or 3 changes.
I can tell you that as much as I would like to drop about 15 players, we need to make at least 6 changes, provided the personnel are available for next week.
we have to accept that we are not a top 8 side and that we need to play all the youngsters we can, finish about 16th and pick up early draft picks.
Henderson, Casboult and Jones wont work....too top heavy and the Eagles just ran the ball out of defense easily......
Fev and the Amigos now seem like a dream team by comparison.
The onfield exploits of this club are only a reflection of what has/is going on off-field. I can only hope that we are indeed taking steps to rectify those issues but that won't happen overnight. In the meantime we are probably in for a lot more of the pain we suffered again tonight and over an extended period.
No more patching up CFC, we need to look at rebuilding this club properly, even if it takes a few years. At least it would make the pain easier to bear if we knew we were systematically following a sound strategy and plan, rather than trying to paper over rapidly widening cracks.
the patching up existed in the off season THIS YEAR...it still happens and will continue to happen as this club doesnt get it
its outcome dependent on membership and will lie and deceive to get its results
Robert walls once told me that when he was coach of the bears and they would get done, on his way home, he worked out in his head that he needed to drop 17 of the 22 players the next week.
By Tuesday he'd calmed down and only made 2 or 3 changes.
I can tell you that as much as I would like to drop about 15 players, we need to make at least 6 changes, provided the personnel are available for next week.
we have to accept that we are not a top 8 side and that we need to play all the youngsters we can, finish about 16th and pick up early draft picks.
Stkilda are ahead of us as they have started rebuilding.......even if we finish 15th-16th we are the worst team in the comp looking forward...
West Coast are very average IMO......to lose like we did shows how poor our list is...
We are tanking. Its that obvious. No other way to explain the weak effort after the first quarter.
The onfield exploits of this club are only a reflection of what has/is going on off-field. I can only hope that we are indeed taking steps to rectify those issues but that won't happen overnight. In the meantime we are probably in for a lot more of the pain we suffered again tonight and over an extended period.
No more patching up CFC, we need to look at rebuilding this club properly, even if it takes a few years. At least it would make the pain easier to bear if we knew we were systematically following a sound strategy and plan, rather than trying to paper over rapidly widening cracks.
The off field has improved. ..the on field will.take time.. agree cookie
I've got nothing
I'm just wandering aimlessly around the lounge room :(
Essendon will rip us a new one next week. They will not let us get out of the blocks with a lead at quarter time. Hence, we could lose by nearly 100 points. Then the pressure on Mick will be huge. If not already so. I don't think we played this poor footy when Pagan was running the show. 12 goal turn around this match after a 50 point turn around is not the best way to start a season.
I presume we have a club psychologist? I don't expect our players to be any less or more intelligent than any other side's (except CheatsFC - "
duh, he done gave me lots of needles so as I don't git so tired") but has anyone explained to these boneheads some facts about the laws of probability? i.e. if I throw 9 heads in a row the chances of a tail coming up is still only 50/50.
Ergo, when you happen to score 3 goals in a row, YOU STILL HAVE TO FIGHT LIKE SH*T TO GET THE NEXT GOAL. These guys seem to have this mindset that consecutive goals, or a 3-4 goal break is simply an excuse to take a break. FMD, I'm over these mentally weak so-called leaders.
So what about the kids then...
Buckley needs to be given a run.
Broekhurst doesn't fill me with any confidence - another Lucas and one way runner
Dillon Rainbow - from all reports nowhere near ready
Clem Smith - is not there yet either.
Nic Graham - not good enough
Nic Hollman - not good enough
Matthew Watson - why is he even at the club
Cameron Giles - has barely played a game. Not likely to provide much anytime soon.
I know I'm missing a bunch of rookies, but seriously, it's a very bare cupboard.
Ellard.... come on... Ellard... Really???
Smith? Why was he playing? Did the coaches not watch last week's game? Waaaay off the pace. Too small which is fine if you're really quick but he's not quick... at all!
Sam Rowe. Bell. Carazzo. Curnow.
Judd went out of the game without a whimper. Priddis got a hard tag (Curnow) but had 31 pos.
At least Judd was in the game at some point. Murphy is a complete liability when not dominating. Does not man up or chase so his opponent ran straight through the middle unchallenged for most of the night.
All of this is to the side of the main point: The whole team mentally is not worth 2 bob.
Jamo is in the leadership group! The most panic stricken, negative, selfish player in the league is in our leadership group!!!!!!!!! He played for too long next to Bret Thornton and caught some contagious compulsive pants crapt!ng disease.
(Selfish as in never helps out his teammate - just watches his own opponent. Couldn't even do that this week)
Buckley needs to be given a run
It should be assumed that his breakout year last season would see him as an integral part of this years backline supporting Yazz as an explosive ball carrier off half back. Missing....why?
I went to subi once. Saw a young guy called Laurence Awgwin kick two goals and we lost by 120 off points.
This was worse.
Spin it all you want. I was there at both.
I've got nothing
I'm just wandering aimlessly around the lounge room :(
Have a very large drink
Might as well just use Shadesy's post match summary that he wrote at 1.00 this afternoon ::)
Replace Carrazzo with White and Duggan didn't play that well.
My OP needs more credit.
Wonder what Essendon is paying for a 100 point win.
The off field has improved. ..the on field will.take time.. agree cookie
I think the club needs to more honest with us MF. It needs to explain exactly what the plans are. The Saints is open and honest about the fact it is rebuilding. Hopefully CFC may well be doing the same but I for one am not sure what the strategy is. It's pretty plain to most that the present list isn't the answer but we can only surmise e.g. SOS's appointment is a fair pointer to a rebuild. On the other hand the recruitment of guys like Tutt and Jones would seem contrary to that idea.
@ cookie I said the same comments on another thread...the trigger and judge need to be open ...we are 5 to 10 years away from being competitive
So what about the kids then...
Buckley needs to be given a run.
Broekhurst doesn't fill me with any confidence - another Lucas and one way runner
Dillon Rainbow - from all reports nowhere near ready
Clem Smith - is not there yet either.
Nic Graham - not good enough
Nic Hollman - not good enough
Matthew Watson - why is he even at the club
Cameron Giles - has barely played a game. Not likely to provide much anytime soon.
I know I'm missing a bunch of rookies, but seriously, it's a very bare cupboard.
Yes it is a worry. The seconds dont seem to be developing players all that well. Carlton seems to have had a rough time trying to integrate the northern blues with the AFL side and the variously untidy arrangements the past few years may have had an effect.
Ideally, the first year recruits would be unlikely to play a game this year, getting their chances in year 2 or three. This includes Boekhorst, who, despite being notionally 'mature aged' is still very young, and our expectations should reflect this. Buckly is more of a concern as he should be demanding a place. Watson is an odd case, but I fear we have kept him on the list for too long without a clear direction for his role.
Its the more middle of the road players that are a worry. Carlton has done well in a sense with rookie listed players, a few of whom played tonight. But typically rookie players have some major deficiencies and unless a long term effort is made to address them then they continue. Focussed and professional coaching, and a settled reserves structure are the way to do this, and we have not had the ideal arrangements for a long time now.
Before anyone starts regurgitating the same cliches from the in-game thread....
Josh Kennedy: "Our guys in the middle showed dominance and made it easy for us."
"Our boys in the middle who were delivering the footy were on and made it so much easier for us."
"They dropped a few back, but i think it was our transistion and the way we moved the footy, it worked well."
Yes, we did drop numbers back
Yes, it was because we had little or no midfield pressure that made the forwards job easy.
So no, it was not Jamos fault.
That takes care of about 1/4 of the complaints people had.
Wrong... Not one bloke wanted to go into the hole. Not one.
Not Jamos fault until it was one on one and Jamo/Rowe were beaten for 4 of the goals.
I presume we have a club psychologist? I don't expect our players to be any less or more intelligent than any other side's (except CheatsFC - "duh, he done gave me lots of needles so as I don't git so tired") but has anyone explained to these boneheads some facts about the laws of probability? i.e. if I throw 9 heads in a row the chances of a tail coming up is still only 50/50.
Ergo, when you happen to score 3 goals in a row, YOU STILL HAVE TO FIGHT LIKE SH*T TO GET THE NEXT GOAL. These guys seem to have this mindset that consecutive goals, or a 3-4 goal break is simply an excuse to take a break. FMD, I'm over these mentally weak so-called leaders.
Even a Shrink wont work...Mick said in his presser we dont have the talent, good players/free agents dont want to come to us because we are crap and our leadership is non existant...
he did say previously he couldnt see us losing a game....maybe Mick needs the shrink?
Even a Shrink wont work...Mick said in his presser we dont have the talent, good players/free agents dont want to come to us because we are crap and our leadership is non existant...
he did say previously he couldnt see us losing a game....maybe Mick needs the shrink?
Yes, Mick was very clear about how all the people he has brought into the club are doing a fantastic job and that side of the equation is all great but we lack talent. We need to share blame for the loss though :))
The results have gone backwards since Mick arrived.
But it can't just be Mick.
We have had multiple coaches turn over and only a small improvement bump in ten years.
We don't have anything like the number of classy juniors coming through as the dogs, adelaide, port, etc..
I am sick of the sight of Mick, and want to see the back of him ASAP, but there is a limit to how much can be slated to his administration.
There's no substitute for talent & character and we lack both.
The saddest story of all is Marc Murphy - what has happened to this bloke? He was a star from day one and he has slowly gone backwards? How? Why?
Re Talent, Gibbs is a top 50 AFL player, but all of Wood, Tutt, Rowe, Curnow, White, Armfield, Ellard, Watson are simply VFL standard. And, Carazzo is now done. That's 9 players!
Nonetheless, Docherty, Foster, Casboult, Jaksch, Buckley, Menzel, Cripps, Whiley, Smith, Byrne are all worth developing, but the jury is out on Jones, Bell and Boekhorst. We need to play these guys from now on, with support from or senior core of Gibbs, Judd, Simpson, Yarran, Henderson, Jamison, Walker, Murphy(?), Everitt, Thomas, Warnock and Kreuzer - bear in mind that 4 of this senior core is currently injured and Murphy is a shadow of the player he was.
Sad to say the game was played over four quarters and we only showed up for one. ::) ::)
Paid attention and saw one sided lazy team, not willing to run both ways. This stinks just like the dark days!! Our list is lazy and loaded with inept passengers being paid BIG DOLLARS to play like crap week in week out. The midfield was awful Murphy, Gibbs, Crrazzo, Curnow Henderson, Jamison, Rowe, Touhy, etc led by PERFECT P!55 EXAMPLE.
The colour of boots doesn't determine your ability !! It shows you up for a pansy, soft just like fairy floss. Stick to plain plain black.
I am embarrassed, the CLUB needs to take drastic and immediate action!
Can't wait for the met and greet tomorrow morning, I may slay the lazy turds that currently represent the club. >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D
I will retire and watch the good old days when wearing navy blue was filled with pride to wear and affection for those who don the jumper.
This modern day Carlton Football Club has me lost for words. WE STINK !!!!!!
I reckon a lot of our players think they are better footballers than they actually are.
They sell the dummy and get past an opponent only to run on and kick it to an opponent.
Not to mention the inability to run with an opponent.
I am not sure I blame Malthouse, perhaps he has removed the filler and exposed the club for what it really is and we cannot hide it anymore. Sometimes you have to hit rock bottom before you can rise again and this is us finally coming to terms with reality. That reality may be a revolution in everything from recruitment and development right the way through to gameplan/coach and culture/ethos.
Coming to the club with his reputation means questions will again be asked of the club and if the great Mick Malthouse can't fix it then who the hell can? This might be the watershed moment which gives permission for the club to now embark in a different direction and one that means the impatient supporter base can do nothing more than accept the obvious.
It's 20 years since our last premiership and we've not looked likely for at least 15 of them and if we do nothing it'll be 15 more.
i d like to turn the spotlight on Andrew Mckay for the minute.
He's the head of football at this club.
should he be or is he the head of recruitment for external skills coaches?
What the FK does Andrew Mckay do?
I totally agree with this post. Andrew McKay is a pussy. He thinks he shhite don't stink because he's a vet etc. Truth is, he is a man without spine and without a clue. We are now officially the worst club in the AFL. Yes, worse than the saints. The cronies that brought in Malthouse and got rid of any goal kickers we have- e.g Betts etc. need to be spilled. Our president would not be out of place on Underbelly 5 and should go immediately. Murphy needs to be left to play a midfield role- not hide him in the forward pocket- Gibbs should be dropped to the reserves to teach him how to go hard at the ball- and anyone (including him) who decide they want to wear those stupid girly buns in their hair need to change this or not play senior footy. Menzel included. We are an awful, sad looking, boring, crapola side.
This is what you get when you rip the heart out of the list and replace it with Footscray reserves players and waste 700k a year on a broken player. As I said in the in game thread, blokes like Rowe, White, Ellard and Curnow were all on the outer under Ratts and destined for the scrap heap yet unbelievably are now major players in our side.....and you guys wonder why we are shight? Granted White had a blinder last week but that is one week, he is yet to prove himself through a whole season. Rowe leadership group gimme a break. Ellard 8 years and still not a reg. Curnow just no.
The talking up of Liam Jones preseason is beginning to look silly and you wonder why we can't just give block head Watson a go? Did we really even need Jones? Tutt? Tutt? FFS Jason Tutt. We used to have cream up front in the way of small forward now we have Tutt and Ellard. And people wonder why the team has gone backwards at the rate of knots.
Leaving out Levi last week was stupid, even playing poorly last night he still gave us so much more than Jones.
I simply do not want to hear anything more about MM 'fixing' the list he has forking destroyed it, taken us to a place that we may not recover from. We simply cannot give him another year of recruiting he will botch it even further. We started to fix things with the dismissal of sticks and Swann, now Mick has to go pronto. Let's get in a coach with fresh ideas, someone that can actually get something out of this group. I refer to this comment:
“I played in good sides at West Coast where you run out and you know what you are going to get from each player each week and you know they are going to really compete and give their all,” he said.
“The second half of last year was the first time I had that feeling at Carlton, where you are really confident with the guys running out each week that they were really hungry to win and give their all.
“Sometimes we are going to fall short, but that is playing footy and that’s when footy is enjoyable.
“In the years preceding that, we battled with finding a team of players that were really driven to achieve success and that was frustrating for a lot of people at the footy club.
“So, to have that last year and to really feel that was something that I wanted to be part of going forward and to see just how hard the boys are working over summer and the emphasis on the type of people we are bringing into the club.
“It gives me great confidence we will be able to build on what we did last year.”
Don't be too hard on yourselves......looks like juddy was brainwashed by Malthouse as well. I have to say Juddy, give me the competitiveness of Ratts group any day of the week and twice on Sundays. I long to watch us come out and attack sides like we used to back then. We have played boring football for too long now. Ratts built a strong list over five years and it's taken Mick just two years to ruin it. Almost like he was a mole planted by Collingwood.
Have you guys seen facebook? We are the laughing stock of Australia.
Pretty sure Macca is just an admin guy.
His biggest sin is allowing us to get in a position where we can't offload Mick midseason because there is no one to take the caretaker role.
This is so true how did we let Mick get away with this? How do we sack him with no one to fill his shoes? SOS as caretaker?
Stkilda are ahead of us as they have started rebuilding.......even if we finish 15th-16th we are the worst team in the comp looking forward...
West Coast are very average IMO......to lose like we did shows how poor our list is...
WCE are seriously bottom six material.
I am not sure I blame Malthouse, perhaps he has removed the filler and exposed the club for what it really is and we cannot hide it anymore. Sometimes you have to hit rock bottom before you can rise again and this is us finally coming to terms with reality. That reality may be a revolution in everything from recruitment and development right the way through to gameplan/coach and culture/ethos.
Oh purleeease enough of this kind of talk. Only the blind can't see what has happened here. He hasn't removed the filler, he's removed the fabric of the club. Blokes like Robbo, Betts and Waite that played for the jumper are gone. (no offence spf I know you're just playing devil's advocate)
I went to subi once. Saw a young guy called Laurence Awgwin kick two goals and we lost by 120 off points.
This was worse.
Spin it all you want. I was there at both.
I was there too that night. Felt like I was the only Carlton supporter there.
This is so true how did we let Mick get away with this? How do we sack him with no one to fill his shoes? SOS as caretaker?
Laidley.
I reckon a lot of our players think they are better footballers than they actually are.
They sell the dummy and get past an opponent only to run on and kick it to an opponent.
Not to mention the inability to run with an opponent.
Spot on. We haven't recruited "proper" footballers now for over 15 years. And I include Fevola in that list. Our recruiters seem to have sat down with a packet of corn chips while scanning highlights packages and selected players based on one or two attributes.
"Strong bodied type" = can't kick or handpass
"Good pair of hands" = can't run or tackle
"Superb kick" = no intrinsic knowledge of the subtleties of the game
"Huge potential" = narcissistic Mummy's boy who's never done a hard day's work in his life
Years ago, back in the 80's, I was at a local chain restaurant when a group of guys with clipboards came in and sat at the next booth. Turned out to be the St Kilda MC. Selection decisions were made between courses and the most animated conversation was reserved for the quality of the food (and beer). I left thanking my lucky stars I supported the most professional and successful club in the history of the VFL. ::)
Mckay had no footy operations manager experience when arrived....just another sticks mate appointment. ..balme is light years ahead of him..these are one of the poor off field decisions prior to the new admin we are stuck with....
This is what you get when you rip the heart out of the list and replace it with Footscray reserves players and waste 700k a year on a broken player. As I said in the in game thread, blokes like Rowe, White, Ellard and Curnow were all on the outer under Ratts and destined for the scrap heap yet unbelievably are now major players in our side.....and you guys wonder why we are shight? Granted White had a blinder last week but that is one week, he is yet to prove himself through a whole season. Rowe leadership group gimme a break. Ellard 8 years and still not a reg. Curnow just no.
The talking up of Liam Jones preseason is beginning to look silly and you wonder why we can't just give block head Watson a go? Did we really even need Jones? Tutt? Tutt? FFS Jason Tutt. We used to have cream up front in the way of small forward now we have Tutt and Ellard. And people wonder why the team has gone backwards at the rate of knots.
Leaving out Levi last week was stupid, even playing poorly last night he still gave us so much more than Jones.
I simply do not want to hear anything more about MM 'fixing' the list he has forking destroyed it, taken us to a place that we may not recover from. We simply cannot give him another year of recruiting he will botch it even further. We started to fix things with the dismissal of sticks and Swann, now Mick has to go pronto. Let's get in a coach with fresh ideas, someone that can actually get something out of this group. I refer to this comment:
“I played in good sides at West Coast where you run out and you know what you are going to get from each player each week and you know they are going to really compete and give their all,” he said.
“The second half of last year was the first time I had that feeling at Carlton, where you are really confident with the guys running out each week that they were really hungry to win and give their all.
“Sometimes we are going to fall short, but that is playing footy and that’s when footy is enjoyable.
“In the years preceding that, we battled with finding a team of players that were really driven to achieve success and that was frustrating for a lot of people at the footy club.
“So, to have that last year and to really feel that was something that I wanted to be part of going forward and to see just how hard the boys are working over summer and the emphasis on the type of people we are bringing into the club.
“It gives me great confidence we will be able to build on what we did last year.”
Don't be too hard on yourselves......looks like juddy was brainwashed by Malthouse as well. I have to say Juddy, give me the competitiveness of Ratts group any day of the week and twice on Sundays. I long to watch us come out and attack sides like we used to back then. We have played boring football for too long now. Ratts built a strong list over five years and it's taken Mick just two years to ruin it. Almost like he was a mole planted by Collingwood.
Have you guys seen facebook? We are the laughing stock of Australia.
Great post Carrots, the flicking of Garlett, Robbo and Betts has ripped something out of the club and the mind set of the so called leaders. Yarran does his one or two runs in the first quarter and goes into his shell and becomes a one step and kick merchant.
The Boult could be a top class power forward but can't control the ball drop. He should never have been allowed to get this far with that kicking style. Our tackling needs a dedicated coach but most of tackling is intent and we now hardly have player showing that. Stuff it, I'm going fishing.
Oh purleeease enough of this kind of talk. Only the blind can't see what has happened here. He hasn't removed the filler, he's removed the fabric of the club. Blokes like Robbo, Betts and Waite that played for the jumper are gone. (no offence spf I know you're just playing devil's advocate)
Robbo jeffy lied to the club.....have to go
waite had a deal on the table.....he was not playing for the jumper...Went to norf....
On last night's performance the removal of Robbo, Garlett, Betts and Waite only served to demonstrate one thing - we didn't remove enough of the so called senior players and leaders. That is where our problems are together with the coaching group that can't get through to them and isn't being listened to.
On last night's performance the removal of Robbo, Garlett, Betts and Waite only served to demonstrate one thing - we didn't remove enough of the so called senior players and leaders. That is where our problems are together with the coaching group that can't get through to them and isn't being listened to.
I have said gibbs murph simmo jammo carrotts trade
hendo is off to geelong I suspect...hope we get good compensation
judd to retire
On last night's performance the removal of Robbo, Garlett, Betts and Waite only served to demonstrate one thing - we didn't remove enough of the so called senior players and leaders. That is where our problems are together with the coaching group that can't get through to them and isn't being listened to.
They are playing exactly the way they are coached, the problem is the way they are coached to play is mostly irrelevant to modern football and also doesn't suit our list!
Go back and watch the first few minutes of the 3rd term, you see a wide shot of the ground as we try to take the ball into F50. While we struggle to pick it up and use the ball on the fence line, three or four Wet Toaster's flood back across the outer wing and are standing spread across our CHF line waiting for us to bomb the ball. There is probably two or three of them for every Carlton forward!
We take the slow road to China every time, building compounds as we go, and when we get there we keep finding an army waiting at the border! It's fecking obvious!
FMD, the ancient Greeks knew the shortest way across a circle is through the centre. Our blokes look tired because the game plan requires them to run 50% more than their opponents. 30 seconds taking it around the boundary, 5 seconds watching it go back through the middle!
Finally the post match press conference, Malthouse struggles to recall even two or three names from the team he has coached for multiple seasons, do you lot need a clearer indicator it's over for him as a match day coach?This is typical of the ageing process, stress causes an ever reducing number of neurons to misfire and people make bad or stupid decisions, they look confused and struggle to recall basic details after the fact!
It doesn't mean he isn't capable as a head coach or director of coaching, but he cannot match day coach, he looks confused and disorientated at times!
This is so true how did we let Mick get away with this? How do we sack him with no one to fill his shoes? SOS as caretaker?
We have Dean Laidley. He can do the job after Mick breaks the record. For a care taker he's be as good as it gets.
In the end we have to change the on-field culture or else nothing matters. We've got rid of our so-called problems there over the years and just made it worse. Off field stuff is so overrated. If they get a kick and do well on field that's all that matters.
Ive actually never been more embarrassed to be a carlton supporter ever. Last night I was copping it massively from a fckin bummers supporter!! I've been a member since 96 but am yet to sign up this year. I still probably will but I'll be waiting for a win first. Absolutely gutted by where we are at. Just cannot believe it
Cant see Juddy wanting another year.
i said it pre season we have to change game plan for 2015 no more long bombs into our fwd line ,have a look at tigers game and last night how opp just run it out with ease.( defence is the best form of attack) so with our current game plan(under 10 style) we have nothing.
Robbo jeffy lied to the club.....have to go
waite had a deal on the table.....he was not playing for the jumper...Went to norf....
And what's it done for us?
That's the problem, overrated off field stuff. They don't have to go anywhere, not if it makes the side alot worse. Only one thing that counts, score on the board. Waite was still performing when he got back in the side.
You either want a decent on field line up or you want choir boys who are losers. You choice.
We have Dean Laidley. He can do the job after Mick breaks the record. For a care taker he's be as good as it gets.
In the end we have to change the on-field culture or else nothing matters. We've got rid of our so-called problems there over the years and just made it worse. Off field stuff is so overrated. If they get a kick and do well on field that's all that matters.
So true huh....even with all his faults Fev would get us over the line over and over again, he'd draw supporters to the games.
I reckon a lot of our players think they are better footballers than they actually are.
They sell the dummy and get past an opponent only to run on and kick it to an opponent.
Not to mention the inability to run with an opponent.
thats the worst part, the lines get broken easily because of this.
This is an application issue
And what's it done for us?
That's the problem, overrated off field stuff. They don't have to go anywhere, not if it makes the side alot worse. Only one thing that counts, score on the board. Waite was still performing when he got back in the side.
You either want a decent on field line up or you want choir boys who are losers. You choice.
You choose the 1980s I choose modern clubs like the geelong model...
They are playing exactly the way they are coached, the problem is the way they are coached to play is mostly irrelevant to modern football and also doesn't suit our list!
Go back and watch the first few minutes of the 3rd term, you see a wide shot of the ground as we try to take the ball into F50. While we struggle to pick it up and use the ball on the fence line, three or four Wet Toaster's flood back across the outer wing and are standing spread across our CHF line waiting for us to bomb the ball. There is probably two or three of them for every Carlton forward!
We take the slow road to China every time, building compounds as we go, and when we get there we keep finding an army waiting at the border! It's fecking obvious!
FMD, the ancient Greeks knew the shortest way across a circle is through the centre. Our blokes look tired because the game plan requires them to run 50% more than their opponents. 30 seconds taking it around the boundary, 5 seconds watching it go back through the middle!
Finally the post match press conference, Malthouse struggles to recall even two or three names from the team he has coached for multiple seasons, do you lot need a clearer indicator it's over for him as a match day coach?
This is typical of the ageing process, stress causes an ever reducing number of neurons to misfire and people make bad or stupid decisions, they look confused and struggle to recall basic details after the fact!
It doesn't mean he isn't capable as a head coach or director of coaching, but he cannot match day coach, he looks confused and disorientated at times!
We haven't really looked like premiership material in the reign of 3 coaches and probably as many popes. The common denominator being the playing list, at least it's senior members.
We haven't really looked like premiership material in the reign of 3 coaches and probably as many popes. The common denominator being the playing list, at least it's senior members.
WRONG! Premiership faves in 2012, one kick from a prelim in 2011.
Robbo jeffy lied to the club.....have to go
waite had a deal on the table.....he was not playing for the jumper...Went to norf....
Mick's been lying to the club and supporters for 2 years now.
How can Levi not show any form of kicking improvement? How?
Who is teaching him?
What do we do at training??
Says it all really.
WRONG! Premiership faves in 2012, one kick from a prelim in 2011.
Wouldabeen coodabeens. I never thought we looked like actually winning the flag. May have played some entertaining footy at times, but I saw heroic losers at best.
Wouldabeen coodabeens. I never thought we looked like actually winning the flag. May have played some entertaining footy at times, but I saw heroic losers at best.
whatever...we were improving, we had respect...and more importantly..i was fkn excited!
I haven't read all the posts, so going in fresh with this one. I understand that to go forwards long term you might need to go backwards just for a little bit. I just didnt understand how far backwards it was possible to go until I saw last nights performance. Last year I was somewhat ok about how we were going, I felt I knew where the team was at and what we needed to do to start climbing back up the ladder.
Either I'm a massive moron or a incredibly delusional idiot or even a bit of both, but I never thought I would see a performance like last night that now has me questioning aspects of the club I had rock solid beliefs in.
I loathe pinging individuals, be it players, coaches or admin as I will always support the club passionately as a whole. I have to question if the players have lost faith in the coach or each other. When Malthouse came to the club i was a stoic supporter of him, but my faith has been severely compromised in him.
Some of our players skill level is diabolical at best and decision making is really poor, are they still playing for each other or have they just gone into survival mode for themselves.
Carlton is so broken right now i seriously wouldn't even know how to start fixing it. This club needs a full on reset in so many aspects of functionality and I fear things are going to get even worse for a while.
I used to love going to the footy on the weekends, now its something I dread, but I'm a sucker for punishment and will always go.
How can Levi not show any form of kicking improvement? How?
Who is teaching him?
What do we do at training??
Says it all really.
Agree...same two handed ball drop, even Wayne Carey commented on how it has to be one hand guiding the ball to the boot..its a basic skill not calculus we
are expecting him to be taught....yet nothing changes..
Agree...same two handed ball drop, even Wayne Carey commented on how it has to be one hand guiding the ball to the boot..its a basic skill not calculus we
are expecting him to be taught....yet nothing changes..
Notice the awful drop from 25 metres but a perfectly decent ball drop kicking from 55 or in general play. The goal from 55 on the boundary was a floater but the ball drop was ok and he kicked through the ball. so he can kick, just have to get rids of the yips from close in.
We haven't really looked like premiership material in the reign of 3 coaches and probably as many popes. The common denominator being the playing list, at least it's senior members.
Rubbish, we have turned over the list equal to or more than any other club in the competition, it's just a bogus claim that the list is the common factor!
The fate of our club doesn't begin and end with two or three, and those seniors as you call them, Simpson, Judd, Gibbs as three of them were among our best last night!
Geez I hate to see where we end up when Simmo and Judd retire!
We haven't really looked like premiership material in the reign of 3 coaches and probably as many popes. The common denominator being the playing list, at least it's senior members.
On field culture that pervades through the club. Put who you like in there, if the players won't work hard you're going no-where.
They are playing exactly the way they are coached, the problem is the way they are coached to play is mostly irrelevant to modern football and also doesn't suit our list!
Go back and watch the first few minutes of the 3rd term, you see a wide shot of the ground as we try to take the ball into F50. While we struggle to pick it up and use the ball on the fence line, three or four Wet Toaster's flood back across the outer wing and are standing spread across our CHF line waiting for us to bomb the ball. There is probably two or three of them for every Carlton forward!
We take the slow road to China every time, building compounds as we go, and when we get there we keep finding an army waiting at the border! It's fecking obvious!
FMD, the ancient Greeks knew the shortest way across a circle is through the centre. Our blokes look tired because the game plan requires them to run 50% more than their opponents. 30 seconds taking it around the boundary, 5 seconds watching it go back through the middle!
Finally the post match press conference, Malthouse struggles to recall even two or three names from the team he has coached for multiple seasons, do you lot need a clearer indicator it's over for him as a match day coach?
This is typical of the ageing process, stress causes an ever reducing number of neurons to misfire and people make bad or stupid decisions, they look confused and struggle to recall basic details after the fact!
It doesn't mean he isn't capable as a head coach or director of coaching, but he cannot match day coach, he looks confused and disorientated at times!
Think Mick was shattered. There was something subtle in the way he named leaders, or who he didn't name, during his presser. It was a message to some players about his thoughts without him saying it..
Rubbish, we have turned over the list equal to or more than any other club in the competition, it's just a bogus claim that the list is the common factor!
The fate of our club doesn't begin and end with two or three, and those seniors as you call them, Simpson, Judd, Gibbs as three of them were among our best last night!
Geez I hate to see where we end up when Simmo and Judd retire!
They may have been among our best but their best obviously falls a looong way short of what is needed. We may have turned the list over but we didn't turn over the leadership/senior players. That's where we need to be focused.
Think Mick was shattered. There was something subtle in the way he named leaders, or who he didn't name, during his presser. It was a message to some players about his thoughts without him saying it..
I had thought the same in the pass, a careful choice of words, even Ling said as much.
But I'm not so sure any more, and I think Ling is just being polite!
I've watched Malthouse on the boundary line, late last season and Rnd 1 this season and he looks confused, dishevelled even!
It's actually a bit sad! :(
They may have been among our best but their best obviously falls a looong way short of what is needed. We may have turned the list over but we didn't turn over the leadership/senior players. That's where we need to be focused.
It's just crap, we have some quality surrounded by sh1te and you're advocating to keep the sh1te and replace the quality.
Well if the new quality is still surrounded by sh1te it will still stink!
I had thought the same in the pass, a careful choice of words, even Ling said as much.
But I'm not so sure any more, and I think Ling is just being polite!
I've watched Malthouse on the boundary line, late last season and Rnd 1 this season and, he looks confused, dishevelled even!
It's actually a bit sad! :(
That's what CFC does to coaches - Carlton Syndrome.
It's just crap, we have some quality surrounded by sh1te and you're advocating to keep the sh1te and replace the quality.
Well if the new quality is still surrounded by sh1te it will still stink!
Wrong LP, where did I advocate keeping the sh1te? I think I said earlier that no one should be off limits, but we certainly have massive problems with our leadership that need sorting out before we can really start going forward, IMHO of course.
Wrong LP, where did I advocate keeping the sh1te? I think I said earlier that no one should be off limits, but we certainly have massive problems with our leadership that need sorting out before we can really start going forward, IMHO of course.
Do you read what you post?
They may have been among our best but their best obviously falls a looong way short of what is needed. We may have turned the list over but we didn't turn over the leadership/senior players. That's where we need to be focused.
Doesn't that mean turn over the leaders first, that is what "where we need to be focussed" means doesn't it?
I get it, you want the whole lot gone, very realistic, not unreasonable at all!
whatever...we were improving, we had respect...and more importantly..i was fkn excited!
x2
I used to love going to the footy. Now I am loathe to go. We have memberships, reserved seating, and we want to downgrade them - can you do that? I don't want to go and watch that tripe. Of course I will always support this club, but this has become ridiculous. Going into year 3 and we are crapTER than we were 4 years ago - when we stabbed Ratten in the back to bring MM in to get a premiership.
Open your eyes people - never was never will be the man for this club. We have wasted millions of dollars on this guy, wasted potential in Jeffy or Robbo, and anyone else that would' 'tow the line' of the great MM, he has not got anyone playing better, except perhaps Simon White, who probably would've come on a bit anyway naturally.
I'm embarrassed that our wonderful club has been so severely manipulated by this whole charade, was it Swan getting old mate MM the gig with us? And then who bought over Daisy. Fail. Fail. Fail. And meanwhile our good players have upped and left because let's face it, when people who are not as good as you are getting paid more than you in any job, you get resentful and leave.
x2
I used to love going to the footy. Now I am loathe to go. We have memberships, reserved seating, and we want to downgrade them - can you do that? I don't want to go and watch that tripe. Of course I will always support this club, but this has become ridiculous. Going into year 3 and we are crapTER than we were 4 years ago - when we stabbed Ratten in the back to bring MM in to get a premiership.
Open your eyes people - never was never will be the man for this club. We have wasted millions of dollars on this guy, wasted potential in Jeffy or Robbo, and anyone else that would' 'tow the line' of the great MM, he has not got anyone playing better, except perhaps Simon White, who probably would've come on a bit anyway naturally.
I'm embarrassed that our wonderful club has been so severely manipulated by this whole charade, was it Swan getting old mate MM the gig with us? And then who bought over Daisy. Fail. Fail. Fail. And meanwhile our good players have upped and left because let's face it, when people who are not as good as you are getting paid more than you in any job, you get resentful and leave. correct..sticks with the Pratt numbers allowed Swan to do what he did
Mckay had no footy operations manager experience when arrived....just another sticks mate appointment. ..balme is light years ahead of him..these are one of the poor off field decisions prior to the new admin we are stuck with....
Balme went from a senior coach to an operations manager, so not sure the experience argument is a good when when talking about Balme
Balme went from a senior coach to an operations manager, so not sure the experience argument is a good when when talking about Balme
mckay came from the vet clinic to the role..alot different
Think Mick was shattered. There was something subtle in the way he named leaders, or who he didn't name, during his presser. It was a message to some players about his thoughts without him saying it..
MY worry is he just didn't know who was and who wasn't in it and who has and hasn't been in the group. Felt like he just didn't know watching it :-\
Just watched the full presser. What I saw was a completely exasperated man in MM. I believe he has tried all he knows and whether or not those things were right or wrong they didn't work with our players. I think he knows he's probably nearing the end of the line and will just soldier on as best he can. Next week could just about be the end if we get mauled by the Bummers.
Murphy should step aside as Captain.
Clearly not capable of handling the role AND playing football remotely close to his once very high standard.
Just watching some of the highlights;
Can some please tell Carrazzo, Gibbs, Bell and others to stay on their fecking feet!
I mean this is U12s stuff, our blokes are crawling across the ground while the Wet Toast run away with the pill! There are moments where we look like we are begging them to stop!
the carlton football club accepts the devils money, must do what the devil says.
Its been the problem for a decade now
Wrong... Not one bloke wanted to go into the hole. Not one.
Not Jamos fault until it was one on one and Jamo/Rowe were beaten for 4 of the goals.
Hmm....do i believe you
or
Do i believe the guy running into the hole?
Sorry Shades, i'll trust Josh Kennedy's words over yours.
Wrong... Not one bloke wanted to go into the hole. Not one.
Not Jamos fault until it was one on one and Jamo/Rowe were beaten for 4 of the goals.
Did you see Hendo spray his team-mates when he had that short spell on Kennedy?
Kennedy had 20m of clear space to run into and our guys were in survival mode worrying about their own opponents!
Just watched the full presser. What I saw was a completely exasperated man in MM. I believe he has tried all he knows and whether or not those things were right or wrong they didn't work with our players.
What he knows is archaic, and the players that didn't get it were shipped off and replaced by hacks (unless they were in the top 3 at the club), hence the reason we are now shight.
Just watched the full presser. What I saw was a completely exasperated man in MM. I believe he has tried all he knows and whether or not those things were right or wrong they didn't work with our players. I think he knows he's probably nearing the end of the line and will just soldier on as best he can. Next week could just about be the end if we get mauled by the Bummers.
He can't believe he's sitting there! :o
Hmm....do i believe you
or
Do i believe the guy running into the hole?
Sorry Shades, i'll trust Josh Kennedy's words over yours.
Yep sorry mate. My view from level 6 showed me nothing.
I made it up.
Zach Touhy was the bloke sent back to be loose. Eagles were good at creating the space, but our guys showed no willingness or commitment to block the space.
I thought that would be obvious even on TV, the amount free run JK got.
But hey how culture is good right?
What he knows is archaic, and the players that didn't get it were shipped off and replaced by hacks (unless they were in the top 3 at the club), hence the reason we are now shight.
Seemed to work OK in the first quarters of the first two games though (and I stress again that I'm no fan of MM)? But no doubt you'll find a way to spin that.
He can't believe he's sitting there! :o
On balance, he'd probably rather be in Iraq or Syria I guess. ::)
Seemed to work OK in the first quarters of the first two games though (and I stress again that I'm no fan of MM)? But no doubt you'll find a way to spin that.
I think opposition coaches get caught out because they can't believe we will keep trying the same old sh1te! :o
I think opposition coaches get caught out because they can't believe we will keep trying the same old sh1te! :o
:))
If that's true, they can't be that bright either then if they still haven't worked that out?
:))
If that's true, they can't be that bright either then if they still haven't worked that out?
Yet they out-coach our lot!
:))
If that's true, they can't be that bright either then if they still haven't worked that out?
What I'm sick and tired of is tuning in to the radio the day after to hear the other Coach's explanation of how they "
knew" what they needed to work on (from previous week), and didn't panic when they were behind because they "
knew" their game plan was sound and they had superior <insert relevant skill/experience here>. And all delivered in an almost deadpan and humble manner - almost. You can still detect the slightly sickening tone of triumphalism in their voice no matter how low key they play it.
When are we going to KNOW what we need to work on? ...or is it simply, 'everything'?
You really know we are cr@p when after 10 pages no-one has blamed the umpires, even though there were 3 crucial decisions at critical times which halted our momentum and swung it their way:-
1. Kennedy hands in Rowe's back
2. Scoop between the legs NOT a throw?!?
3. Tuohy's handpass deemed a throw by the ump who was blindsided
Then, apparently we went 50 minutes without a free? Sheesh - coulda got within 3 goals without those maggots.
Then, apparently we went 50 minutes without a free? Sheesh - coulda got within 3 goals without those maggots.
We might have gone 50 minutes without a possession too, did anyone check? :o
Yet they out-coach our lot!
:))
Yet they out-coach our lot!
And their teams outplayed ours, showing more guts and determination than we could ever dream of, so back to sq1 in the argument. It's a bit harder to coach serial recalcitrants.
And their teams outplayed ours, showing more guts and determination than we could ever dream of, so back to sq1 in the argument. It's a bit harder to coach serial recalcitrants.
So what Judd said late last year was just rubbish?
So what Judd said late last year was just rubbish?
Careful PI2C, you'll get a reputation! ;) :D
Maybe Chris played on because he needs the money, maybe Mick coached on for the same reason? :o
I'll repeat my last statement on the other thread here.
I have once again to pay my membership by a complete load of cr@p sent out by the club.
Spirit? What Spirit?
Bullshiiite on bullshiiite.
This mob are a rabble.
And we are staring down another 5/0 loss start.
mick couldn't see us losing a game, I can't see us winning one.
Oh, and what about the one about last year we had 22 on the operating table pre-season but this year nowhere near that? I wish these guys would be honest with us. It really is disheartening.
Before anyone starts regurgitating the same cliches from the in-game thread....
Josh Kennedy: "Our guys in the middle showed dominance and made it easy for us."
"Our boys in the middle who were delivering the footy were on and made it so much easier for us."
"They dropped a few back, but i think it was our transistion and the way we moved the footy, it worked well."
Yes, we did drop numbers back
Yes, it was because we had little or no midfield pressure that made the forwards job easy.
So no, it was not Jamos fault.
That takes care of about 1/4 of the complaints people had.
We dropped them back yet they were nowhere to be seen when Kennedy led for the ball..he always seemed to be leading to space with a bunch of
our blokes trailing him....they didnt want to get in Kennedys path, it was like Barry Hall was playing...
Please, not the surgeries LOL
So what Judd said late last year was just rubbish?
Juddy may well have truly believed what he was saying at the time, maybe even cynical old me did too (well half believed), at the time. All just words though now Carrots, probably for media and potential member consumption, we can only go by what we have been seeing over the past two games.
Do you read what you post?
Doesn't that mean turn over the leaders first, that is what "where we need to be focussed" means doesn't it?
I get it, you want the whole lot gone, very realistic, not unreasonable at all!
Yes we need to focus on our leaders because quite frankly most of them are just not leaders. We need strong leaders, simple as that, and I think we need to look outside of the club to find them, based our our recent performances, unless someone emerges over the course of the year. What happens to our current ones? I think some of them will obviously retire this year and next year and some should be traded if we can get value for them.
We dropped them back yet they were nowhere to be seen when Kennedy led for the ball..he always seemed to be leading to space with a bunch of
our blokes trailing him....they didnt want to get in Kennedys path, it was like Barry Hall was playing...
I never said that we were effective at it, nor that our players enjoyed doing it.
What i'm saying is that it was tried as a tactic which many were criticising our coach for NOT doing. We did it, but the players couldn't do it correctly. Not enough heart, balls or brains.
FWIW, if we were doing it effectively, Kennedy wouldn't have been on the end of the passes. So think about all the goals that the eagles got from OTHER players and that may have been when we successfully blocked kennedys run at the ball/space. ;)
What i'm saying is that it was tried as a tactic which many were criticising our coach for NOT doing. We did it, but the players couldn't do it correctly. Not enough heart, balls or brains.
Reminds me of the Simpsons where Mr Burns tells Darryl Strawberry to hit a home run, he does it and Burns takes the credit. Mick isn't paid a million bucks to tell them what to do, he is paid a million to get them to do it.
We dropped them back yet they were nowhere to be seen when Kennedy led for the ball..he always seemed to be leading to space with a bunch of
our blokes trailing him....they didnt want to get in Kennedys path, it was like Barry Hall was playing...
They did a great job of creating space for him... But our guys were happy to be standing next to Jamie Cripps ont the wing, and point the finger back at the defence, then using some initiative and fill the hole.
And there was Liam Jones. Who stood In the one spot for 10
Mins. And when we did get it he ran back towards goal asking for them to bomb it on his head.
Won't play past round 6
And there was Liam Jones. Who stood In the one spot for 10
Mins. And when we did get it he ran back towards goal asking for them to bomb it on his head.
Won't play past round 6
That long?
It's easy to see why Jones isn't rated by other clubs. It's a pity because he does show the occasional glimpse of what it takes to be an outstanding key forward. I hope I'm proved wrong.
That long?
It's easy to see why Jones isn't rated by other clubs. It's a pity because he does show the occasional glimpse of what it takes to be an outstanding key forward. I hope I'm proved wrong.
I hope so too, but I really don't see it happening. He may work like a Trojan at training, but come game day he doesn't work hard enough and he puts very little defensive pressure on.
In a better club he would look better as he would have to do less: more talent around would allow him more latitude and he would benefit. But we don't have that talent base, so we can't carry a guy like him for long.
I had hopes that he could concentrate and be the player he could be, but it looks like my hopes were unreasonable.
It's not as if Hendo had done any better up forward.
The key problem is the midfield - it has gone AWOl big time - Murphy, gibbs, cARROTS, cURNOW giving zip.
It's not as if Hendo had done any better up forward.
The key problem is the midfield - it has gone AWOl big time - Murphy, gibbs, cARROTS, cURNOW giving zip.
You make a very strong and valid point. In both first quarters of our first 2 games, our mids were on top and getting the clearances. The forwards were able to lead because the defence couldn't run back and stack up. Leaving us to bomb the ball in in heavy congested contested marking. Our mids and ruck need to work harder and more clever. Once we move the ball quick from a clearance we catch the defenders off guard, and in plenty of one on one work against our forwards. Chasing players on a lead becomes far more difficult. As do intercepted marks and turnovers.
When we ever had our midfield and running players rule with quick clearances we have looked dangerous. Whether we had Fev, Waite, Betts or Henderson up forward. We sometimes need the forwards to move up to the 50m line to isolate Henderson types to work one on one more often. Hence set up a defencive line for the rebounding defenders to have to penetrate. Its something the coaches need to consider and teach. Its something the players need to learn and practice. However with lazy players in the middle of the ground, any game plan is just a hit and miss, with a poor conversion based on our talent with KPP's.
Go talk to Mick and make it happen mate. You might surprise yourself, and he may listen to you. ;)
That long?
It's easy to see why Jones isn't rated by other clubs. It's a pity because he does show the occasional glimpse of what it takes to be an outstanding key forward. I hope I'm proved wrong.
Highlight reel player, will probably come out and kick 5 vs the Saints and we will think great he has arrived but then he wont do anything for another 4-5 games then tease
us again...as Shadesy said he doesnt work hard enough and lets forget about the goals even I just want to see him play 100 mins instead of a few highlights fro 10 mins.
Needs some education away from the goals IMO....
Amazing, the Doggies crying out for forwards and he couldn't get a gig, surely that say plenty about where he as at as a footballer. At first I wasn't too upset as it was pick #42 but in hindsight pick #42 probably could've got us Blaine.
I never said that we were effective at it, nor that our players enjoyed doing it.
What i'm saying is that it was tried as a tactic which many were criticising our coach for NOT doing. We did it, but the players couldn't do it correctly. Not enough heart, balls or brains.
FWIW, if we were doing it effectively, Kennedy wouldn't have been on the end of the passes. So think about all the goals that the eagles got from OTHER players and that may have been when we successfully blocked kennedys run at the ball/space. ;)
Back when teams played two ruckmen, one would usually drop into the spot. If I remember correctly, Wood did get back for one mark inside defensive 50 but it would be a huge ask to expect a lone ruckman to do it regularly.
Our defenders seem more focused on individual defence rather than team defence, but who knows what the plan is?
Our defenders seem more focused on individual defence rather than team defence, but who knows what the plan is?
Both are symptoms of finger-pointing and poor communication, on the field and in the coaches box!