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Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #2685
All I was suggesting was that the minute they allowed people from OS in, they came bearing a gift.
It's sort of only applicable once / while we are COVID free which won't be forever, sooner or later there will be domestic transmission, it's only a matter of time.

The full reservoir for COVID is not known, but it's already here to stay!

One problem we have with COVID is that the health process is bias in that it preferentially picks up harmful mutagens, there could be dozens of virulent but harmless mutagens circulating, and it won't be until one mutates to something quite harmful that we will know about it. It's completely wrong for some to claim COVID will mutate into something safe, because it doesn't stay that way, it keeps mutating.
The Force Awakens!

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #2686
Interesting Pfizer now hinting you need a 3rd or ongoing doses for their mRNA vaccine to keep you protected.

Got shares $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$?
The Force Awakens!

 

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #2687
There are now hints beginning to circulate that an annual jab will possibly be necessary.
Reality always wins in the end.

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #2688
There are now hints beginning to circulate that an annual jab will possibly be necessary.
Just like the flu.

Constantly mutating, constantly need to get the latest 'software update'.

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #2689
Just like the flu.

Constantly mutating, constantly need to get the latest 'software update'.
I suspect you'll find J&J and AstraZeneca will modify their stuff and we will be back into it, if not the cost of inoculating the planet will rise 2x to 10x on par with the proposed remedies for treating an infection.

The range of costs seems quite wide;
Bulk Estimates dependant on location:
$30-$50 per person (Adenovirus)
$90 - $150 per person (mRNA)
$600 - $1500 per person (moAB)

We need lots of bulk options to keep the bastards honest$

Either way, we need to realise this isn't going away anytime soon, so there is no point delaying the need to look at different ways for getting on with life.
The Force Awakens!

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #2690
Yes, they should stop telling us how many are dead, nearly 3 Million now, and more about how many have long long term symptoms that are managed as outpatients.

Do we really want to know? :o
yes.  Id like to know exactly whats happening before getting a vaccine that could kill someone in my demographic.  Im almost 40.

As for long term managed outpatients, you'd have to know specifically what the issues are.  After all if its only 1 in 1000 chance of a long covid episode then that still matches the statistical blood clots count from the vaccine.  Right?
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #2691
yes.  Id like to know exactly whats happening before getting a vaccine that could kill someone in my demographic.  Im almost 40.

As for long term managed outpatients, you'd have to know specifically what the issues are.  After all if its only 1 in 1000 chance of a long covid episode then that still matches the statistical blood clots count from the vaccine.  Right?
I heard an epidemiologist today state how crazy it is to suspend/cut any of the vaccines, at this stage in Europe vaccination rates have fallen by about 1 million per day, and COVID cases are now rising in many locations. He said it's expected that 10%(100K) of those 1 million now not getting vaccinated daily due to the cut will get COVID, and out of that shortfall group at least 5 will die and 3000 will get long COVID, while if they had vaccinated that 100K COVID cases none would get severe or long COVID, and only 1/2 a person per day gets a clotting issue.

30% of all COVID patients, on the full spectrum from asymptomatic to severe, will suffer from some form of clotting or low platelet count issue.

0.0005% of COVID vaccine recipients get a severe clot issue.

That is interesting based on the newest news. Today it's surfaced that the UK has an almost 50/50 strike rate for clotting from Adenovirus or mRNA vaccines. It's all been kept a bit quiet on the Moderna / Pfizer side of the debate, apparently Moderna(mRNA) has been under investigation in the US for several weeks and it's not been made public.

There is lots and lots of politics going on in all this.
The Force Awakens!

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #2692
I went to my Haemotologist today for my check up, I asked her the obligatory question about the AZ vaccine. She said based on what they know today:
- She would consider it safe to use for a normal healthy person, there is more chance of being killed in a car accident than dying from an AZ jab and getting a clot.
- They are however advising people with two particular types of clots to not have it at the moment
- Whilst my clot is not one of the two, because its an odd one, she is putting me in the same category and advising me not to have it for now.
- If I was in Europe, India or the US, the risk evaluation would be different given the community transmission rates and I would probably have it. Given our current community transmission situation, there is no urgency.
- In three months, they will know more and reevaluate.
2017-16th
2018-Wooden Spoon
2019-16th
2020-dare to dream? 11th is better than last I suppose
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #2693
I heard an epidemiologist today state how crazy it is to suspend/cut any of the vaccines, at this stage in Europe vaccination rates have fallen by about 1 million per day, and COVID cases are now rising in many locations. He said it's expected that 10%(100K) of those 1 million now not getting vaccinated daily due to the cut will get COVID, and out of that shortfall group at least 5 will die and 3000 will get long COVID, while if they had vaccinated that 100K COVID cases none would get severe or long COVID, and only 1/2 a person per day gets a clotting issue.

30% of all COVID patients, on the full spectrum from asymptomatic to severe, will suffer from some form of clotting or low platelet count issue.

0.0005% of COVID vaccine recipients get a severe clot issue.

That is interesting based on the newest news. Today it's surfaced that the UK has an almost 50/50 strike rate for clotting from Adenovirus or mRNA vaccines. It's all been kept a bit quiet on the Moderna / Pfizer side of the debate, apparently Moderna(mRNA) has been under investigation in the US for several weeks and it's not been made public.

There is lots and lots of politics going on in all this.

I heard an epidemiologist state we wouldn't see a covid vaccine that works yet here we are less than a year later debating whether or not its worth having....

At the end of the day, its all a matter of perspective.   We are all guided by our biases, our personal beliefs, and most dangerously, a statistical analysis that seems to be made with biases in mind, and no real information.   Its amazing how they kept the blood clots and low platelet counts so quiet until the vaccine started yielding similar issues as an example of how little we are told.

Quite convenient for it to come up now isnt it?
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #2694
I heard an epidemiologist state we wouldn't see a covid vaccine that works yet here we are less than a year later debating whether or not its worth having.... Yet they are still all greater > 98% effective!
At the end of the day, its all a matter of perspective.  We are all guided by our biases, our personal beliefs, and most dangerously, a statistical analysis that seems to be made with biases in mind, and no real information.  Its amazing how they kept the blood clots and low platelet counts so quiet until the vaccine started yielding similar issues as an example of how little we are told.

Quite convenient for it to come up now isnt it?
I think paranoia knows no bounds, and is a bed fellow of correlation.

btw., An epidemiologist is in effect a type of forensic statistician not necessarily a virologist or immunologist. The two seem to be conveniently and very wrongly interchanged in many public debates.

I notice nobody in the media or social media like to mention that the clotting rates in the vaccinated are still below background clotting levels, which ironically suggests all the vaccines prevent clots. That's something an epidemiologist can comment on, cherry anyone?
The Force Awakens!

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #2695
I think paranoia knows no bounds, and is a bed fellow of correlation.

btw., An epidemiologist is in effect a type of forensic statistician not necessarily a virologist or immunologist. The two seem to be conveniently and very wrongly interchanged in many public debates.

I notice nobody in the media or social media like to mention that the clotting rates in the vaccinated are still below background clotting levels, which ironically suggests all the vaccines prevent clots. That's something an epidemiologist can comment on, cherry anyone?

Yeah nah not the point.

The point is that you can interchange the opinions from each one so therefore to assert yours is better than mine is what I'd call a logical fallousy.

My expert said middle of last year that no vaccine has been found for the sars family of viruses despite 12 years and a concerted effort to find one, and then wooshka.   7 months into a pandemic we have not 1, but 5 or even more options available.

Go argue with the experts rather than talking on a sports forum.  Find out why that opinion existed last year and how the science has disproven it.  I'll wait.  You seem to have better access.  Mine was a grape vine discussion.
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #2696
Yeah nah not the point.

The point is that you can interchange the opinions from each one so therefore to assert yours is better than mine is what I'd call a logical fallousy.

My expert said middle of last year that no vaccine has been found for the sars family of viruses despite 12 years and a concerted effort to find one, and then wooshka.  7 months into a pandemic we have not 1, but 5 or even more options available.
Firstly, there is a difference between an expert offering an opinion in  his area of expertise, versus commenting about some general issue like your associate.

Secondly, they are factually wrong about the vaccine history exposing a lack of knowledge. SARS-CoV(2003-2005) and MERS(2012) vaccines were in development, but back in 2015 the bureaucracy canned the spending to proceed to stage 2 and 3 trials when the spread of MERS diminished.

Of course being wrong about historical facts doesn't mean your associate was wrong about the chance of finding a SARS-CoV-2 vaccine.

The team developing it in Texas had been working on it since 2005, that is history not speculation or opinion.

Cross check facts, judge your associates opinion accordingly.
The Force Awakens!

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #2697
^^

Firstly, no difference in years developing a vaccine from 12 to 15 or even 20 makes me feel better about a vaccine going from all these stages through to production in 7 months.

If anything, it makes me think its all been a load of crap, and there is no better way for the governments of the world to save face than to latch onto the first vaccine passable.

Secondly, you can use a paraphrased quote of mine to discern nothing about the person's opinion whom I am quoting.  It literally is what I interpreted and pass on, therefore if I misquote him, its my lack of expertise on show, not his so to dismiss what I am saying based on that says more about you than him.

What that means for you is, you can assert what you wish, but until you test that question out on your experts end, you cant really make a determination either way, circling me back to my previous point:

For every 5 "experts" in favor of a vaccine, you are likely to find at least one who can form an opinion against it, and that's because there is no concrete answer here.  There is no magic bullet, its an anecdotal short term trial to see if this will help, because the statistics show that covid is only bad when its bad, and its not bad 100% of the time for 100% of people, therefore the studies need to contain a certain amount of assumptions built in (such as it will alleviate COVID symptoms in some strains but not all, and the cause of clots has only risen its head in media once the vaccine caused some and not one mention of blood clots came to the fore with all the media we have heard about it until now.

Before you go quoting experts, I believe these are the same type of experts that made the decision to introduce the cane toad to Australia.  It seemed like a good idea at the time, and the studies showed that they could help.  Right?



"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #2698
and the cause of clots has only risen its head in media once the vaccine caused some and not one mention of blood clots came to the fore with all the media we have heard about it until now.

Before you go quoting experts, I believe these are the same type of experts that made the decision to introduce the cane toad to Australia.  It seemed like a good idea at the time, and the studies showed that they could help.  Right?
Your confusing what is or isn't reported by the media or social media with was is or isn't discussed officially.

Clotting has been listed as significant symptom of SARS-CoV-2 from the very early days, it was one of the first severe unexplained symptoms listed by the original Wuhan whistle-blower.

It is not the experts fault that the media or social do not report everything officially reported in detail, and it's not the experts fault social media commentators rely on media or social media for facts.

Do you know anything about Cane toads, who introduced them and when? I suggest you investigate the Bureau of Sugar Research circa 1900. Hardly relevant to 2021 SARS-CoV-2!
The Force Awakens!

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #2699
How many people get a flu shot every year?....not 90-95% of the population like whats required for Covid control, expecting 90% of punters to rock up every year for a Covid shot is wishful thinking especially with whats happening at the minute and all the negatives about clots, not being effective against some variants and other problems.
Unless the vaccines are a one off for a certain number of years I dont see it working and we will have to live with Covid in the community and continue safe practices. Also the Government are not going to keep stumping up the money for free vaccines, free doctors/nurses, vaccine hubs and storage facilities and will want the money back via increased medicare levies, taxes etc.
The vaccines need to be a one off shot that has an effective span in years not months, you cant be opening up borders based on the expectation 90% of the people will rock up for covid shots every year.
If you want to open up then the reality is you have Covid in the community and learn to live with it, the vaccine magic wand needs more research/testing before you can wave it and expect magical results. Been a great effort to get vaccines up to the level they are in 7-12 months but its not the panacea of cures that it was painted out to be and ScoMo looks looks like he knows it and has thrown in the towel.