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Re: Father's Day ad pulled!

Reply #30
Very sensible NM. Nice post.
x2 Cheers NM
2017-16th
2018-Wooden Spoon
2019-16th
2020-dare to dream? 11th is better than last I suppose
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time

Re: Father's Day ad pulled!

Reply #31
yes, agree. Gutless non existent leadership.

Spot on.

Headline should read: Govt Cowardice To Cost Taxpayers $M122.
Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17

Re: Father's Day ad pulled!

Reply #32
yes, agree. Gutless non existent leadership.

Absolutely!

Howard didn't need a $120M opinion poll before he changed the Marriage Act but Turnbull has to have one before he changes it back to what it was before Howard intervened. 

I'm not all that far off the principles Turnbull has espoused over his career but has now sadly consigned to the too hard basket.  It's a real pity that he can't stare down the ultra right troglodytes and champion policies that will make a difference.
“Why don’t you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don’t you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don’t you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?”  Oddball

Re: Father's Day ad pulled!

Reply #33
Turnbull is either completely spineless or is a fraud.
Reality always wins in the end.

Re: Father's Day ad pulled!

Reply #34
They're all spineless.

Get paid a lot of money to posture about things and then whittle away our tax dollars on crap.

We could have rolled this plebiscite into the next election at a discount if they were so hell bent on showing how weak they are.
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: Father's Day ad pulled!

Reply #35
They're all spineless.

Get paid a lot of money to posture about things and then whittle away our tax dollars on crap.

We could have rolled this plebiscite into the next election at a discount if they were so hell bent on showing how weak they are.

But why have a plebiscite?  Howard didn't need one before he changed the Marriage Act.

The conservative rump of the Coalition are desperately trying to put off a parliamentary vote on marriage equality.  That's why Dutton came up with the idea of a $120M non-binding opinion poll.  It's not about democracy or letting people have a say, it's about delaying an inevitable change to marriage equality for as long as possible.  Who knows, Kim Jong Un may start a nuclear war before a bill is put to the Parliament and blokes like Bernardi, Abbott and Abetz will be able to go to there graves happy in the knowledge that they didn't allow that first step down the slippery slope to men wearing dresses.

People elected to Parliament are supposed to lead.  That often entails implementing policies that, while they may not be popular with everyone, serve the public interest and have long term benefits.  That's leadership, a quality that's sadly lacking in our current conservative government.  Whether the alternative government is any better waits to be seen ... but they don't have a terribly high benchmark.
“Why don’t you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don’t you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don’t you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?”  Oddball

Re: Father's Day ad pulled!

Reply #36
One of the many great lines from Yes, Prime Minister was something like this from the PM, Jim Hacker, referring to the people of Great Britain:
Quote
I'm their leader - I must follow them.
But in this case, the idea isn't that the Coalition wants to follow the people; the idea is to frustrate the will of the clear majority of the electorate which supports a same-sex marriage amendment.  After all, this is a non-binding marketing survey.  Hell, even the plebiscite that was proposed but thwarted was non-binding as well.  No doubt, the Coalition is hoping a bit of arm-twisting can happen.  They'd be hoping they can approach members of all political persuasions who are in marginal seats with a view to convincing them that the survey shows that supporting same-sex marriage may cost them their seats (if they can break the figures down to show that voters in their electorates aren't supportive).  If they can create enough uncertainty, they might stop any parliamentary push for change. 

Re: Father's Day ad pulled!

Reply #37
But in this case, the idea isn't that the Coalition wants to follow the people; the idea is to frustrate the will of the clear majority of the electorate which supports a same-sex marriage amendment.

Mav, where have you been lately?

It's become very interesting, it seems to me in recent times the bullied have become the bullies, one in the very same with those they accuse!

I was indifferent to the whole idea, I don't see how a piece of paper matters so much that we can waste hundreds of millions of dollars on such an issue. This isn't like the right to vote!

Especially when the country has so many other more important issues that could be easily addressed with that money.

I was happy to vote yes, but after so much recent aggressive behaviour from the group I viewed as pacifists, I'm re-thinking my approach. In effect the extreme "Yes" lobby's behaviour has turned me off supporting them!

As you know, I hate nothing more than being labelled, and it seems I've been labelled as "them" by both sides! Perhaps I will vote to retain the status quo, perhaps that is what the coalition want, they've let the bullies expose themselves! :o

People in my age group have a lot of friends and associates who for various reasons have strong opinions one way or the other, but they are entitled to have that opinion and they are free to voice it in Australia, not get shouted down by a bunch of fanatics. As is often the case the debate has become the domain of extremists.

Surprisingly, there seems to also be a very strong push back from the youth, they are well educated and experienced in recognising bullying. Do not be surprised if things do not go as cleanly and clearly as apparently planned by the "majority".

Thank-you Mr Media. You have proven yet again how destructive and unproductive you can be. I suppose you've cracked the sads because the Victorian's cancelled your state government sponsored private party!
The Force Awakens!

Re: Father's Day ad pulled!

Reply #38
.........................

I was indifferent to the whole idea, I don't see how a piece of paper matters so much that we can waste hundreds of millions of dollars on such an issue. This isn't like the right to vote!

Especially when the country has so many other more important issues that could be easily addressed with that money.
........................

It matters a lot to gay people, and rightly so. It's not just a piece of paper. The paper has legal, moral and symbolic weight attached to it. A small quote from Elton John :

"There is a world of difference between calling someone your 'partner' and calling them your 'husband'. 'Partner' is a word that should be preserved for people you play tennis with, or work alongside in business. It doesn't come close to describing the love that I have for David, and he for me. In contrast, 'husband' does."

The money angle has nothing to do with gay people. That such a concept even needs an opinion poll is laughable. Blame the pollies.

Re: Father's Day ad pulled!

Reply #39
If this poll ends up marginal, things are going to get very bad!
The Force Awakens!

Re: Father's Day ad pulled!

Reply #40
I was once for same sex marriage, I mean why not? I do believe that everyone should have the same rights
Then I became apathetic to it..
My stance was, if all the rights are the same (and those that are not, should be), then it isn't something I honestly care about that much.

Now, I won't be voting, but I am firmly in a camp where the reason is that I will not vote for the bullying I see against those who voice an opinion against. I am also absolutely against the poll in the first place..
So I will be abstaining.

Let's be clear here...
I am all for people living their lives with the person of their choice, regardless of race, religion or sex.
I am all for all people who commit to each other in a long term heterosexual or homosexual relationship (ie defacto) having the same rights as those who are married. In fact my mother and my step father are not married after 27 years together and I don't believe there is any way that the law sees them differently (and if there is, there shouldn't be) and certainly nobody in our family consider them any less 'whole' than if they were married.
I also don't believe in any religion, but I am all for allowing people religious freedom and you can bet there are many people who are against because they have firmly held religious beliefs that tell them marriage is a union between man & woman. I am firmly in the belief they should be able to hold this opinion without being ostracised for it.
I am also all for any other reason that people want to vote against as long as those reasons don't extend to hate.

To be fair, I am not actually even a fan of marriage (tried it for 17 days, didn't like it  :o  :P ), but that is my choice and I do understand the argument that those in a same sex relationship don't get the choice.

I believe this poll will conclusively show that Australian's want there to be same sex marriage and will force the government to make a decision, but it should never have come to this and people should not be subjected to abuse for their opinion.

I read just yesterday how one of the mother's in the ad against same sex marriage had seen a petition go up suggesting that she should be deregistered by the AMA, thankfully the platform removed it. That is utterly ridiculous and whilst I won't be voting against, as I am not actually against, these people (the ones doing the bullying) are the reasons I won't be voting for.

And the government has a lot to answer for in this regard. It is ridiculous that they will not just tackle this issue head on. It is obvious that this year or next or in 2 years or 5 years time all couples will be able to be married, so the government should make it happen now and save the tax dollars. Rather than subject the nation to this unbinding ridiculous poll. If they are firmly against it themselves, then have the balls to state their reasons and stand by them. If that sees them outed at the next election, well they stood by their principles. If it doesn't, then okay also... but don't pass the buck!! Perhaps Turnbull can borrow the old Harry Truman sign for his desk.

Just as a footnote:
IF this poll doesn't go as planned, it will be the Donald Trump vote that does it.
It will be those who are pissed off at being told how they MUST vote and not being allowed to come to that decision on their own. I don't think it will come to that, but it is an outside possibility.
Goals for 2017
=============
Play the most anti-social football in the AFL


Re: Father's Day ad pulled!

Reply #41
Perhaps the marriage equality lobby has had enough of trying to be neutral, civil etc., and can't be bothered pandering to idiots any longer. This "debate", in various guises and forms, has been going on for decades. Even the most patient group or individual would be fed up by now. I don't blame them for getting the sh1ts.

I hope you reconsider your position and vote MIO.

Re: Father's Day ad pulled!

Reply #42
Do you blame them for going out of their way to attack people for their views or beliefs?
Isn't that exactly the thing we should be fighting against?

Getting the sh1ts doesn't allow for people to be ar$eholes.

I am sticking by not voting for all the reasons outline Paul and the moment I thought it was
A) Binding
B) Done without prejudice for or against peoples right to vote based on their own guidelines.

Then I would vote yes.
Goals for 2017
=============
Play the most anti-social football in the AFL


Re: Father's Day ad pulled!

Reply #43
Do you blame them for going out of their way to attack people for their views or beliefs?
Isn't that exactly the thing we should be fighting against?

Getting the sh1ts doesn't allow for people to be ar$eholes.

I am sticking by not voting for all the reasons outline Paul and the moment I thought it was
A) Binding
B) Done without prejudice for or against peoples right to vote based on their own guidelines.

Then I would vote yes.

That's your choice, matey. As much as this whole plebiscite is a sham, it is currently the only thing we have to voice our opinions.

The point I'm making is that all of us have limits. The marriage equality lobby has let fly because they've had enough. As I said, this has been going on for decades. Sometimes you have to call out an idiotic opinion / position exactly for what it is. There is such a thing as provocation, even provocation masquerading as decades of stalling, "debates", etc.

Re: Father's Day ad pulled!

Reply #44
There are no excuses for physical or verbal abuse.

Two wrongs do not make a right, leave that to the anarchists!
The Force Awakens!