Carlton Supporters Club

I think a point to make here is that we're a discussion forum.
If we cant be critical and discuss different aspects of the club there's not a lot of point to our existence.

I've found we're a pretty good cross section of members and supporters and over the years are pretty reflective of the general feelings of Carlton folk at any particular time.

My guess is at the moment we're running about 80% in favour of the current direction of the club.
But there are some who are starting to question some aspects of the rebuild.
It's pretty fair to say that continued lack of success will see that support gradually erode.

So the key is 'progress'.

Daisy Thomas was on TFS last night and called Curnowfides dumb "and he wouldn't mind me saying that either". He said he has the nickname reindeer because he just gallops around without any idea on what he is going to do. He also said that if his teammates have no idea what he is going to do, how are the opposition supposed to work it out.

So, i guarantee you there are members who dislike his laissez faire approach.

I've got a mad Geelong member mate of mine who absolutely HATED Stevie J, basically for the same reason.

Which is the point, members will not agree. So should they be listened too?

Your contention that the club ALWAYS knows best in relation to supporters can be disproven.
Sydney Swans were looking for a coach. They had (unofficially?) signed Terry Wallace as coach, but due to HUGE supporter backlash and support for another candidate the club was forced to change their mind and go with the majority.
End result, Paul Roos gets signed and wins them their first flag in 73 years.
Club was wrong.

I'm sure there are plenty of other examples, but none quite so poignant as that.

Club SHOULD know whats best, but to just assume they do could leave you following a club that has spent the better part of 2 decades rebuilding after it got itself into salary cap issues.

The odd win provides people with some sort of "confirmation " (I'm not sure of the right word)  that the rebuild is in track.

No wins and people start to lose faith.

...but i think your 80% is perhaps a touch swayed by your personal opinion. I think its more. But no point squabbling over the figures.

Do a poll if we lose tomorrow.

I'm not really sure how you can quote Daisy Thomas (who as far as I can tell is a player, not a supporter) and from that conclude that some supporters may think CC is laissez faire, and therefore not like it ?

The Swans supporter base voted for Roos out of love and loyalty, not football knowledge. Some coaches make it work at one club and not others. Wallace may have netted the Swans 2 or 3 flags, or 2 or 3 spoons. We will never know. The point is that the clubs spend a lot more time and effort in making these decisions, and make them with access to a wealth of knowledge that supporters can only dream of. Us humans are unpredictable buggers. Trying to select the right human for a particular task will never have a 100% success rate. But the right systems, methods and processes are critical. Otherwise we end up with the club equivalent of the car Homer Simpson designed.

Why would Thomas call C Curnow dumb and tell other clube he has no idea where to run? Just giving ammunition and information to opposition clubs. Can't see how this helps Carlton

Why would Thomas call C Curnow dumb and tell other clube he has no idea where to run? Just giving ammunition and information to opposition clubs. Can't see how this helps Carlton

So we can't use Daisy Thomas' evaluation of a player because he isn't a supporter.

Yet, you go on to say that the club knows best.

No comment about the salary cap breaches i threw in there?
Pretty sure supporters would know its not the right way to run a club.

My take on it was that Daisy was suggesting CC is goofy, nothing more than that. He suggested he does things in a way that makes him  unpredictable. There was no malice whatsoever.

In the real world you can't expect this list to be anymore than it currently is, given it's demographics.  If at the start of the season Essendon had our list we would have all said that a bottom 2 list.   Otherwise you are getting into Murray Goulbern Areas of telling everyone you will get $4 a litre for milk, when the market wants to pay $2

Our blue chips talent is all at the bottom end age wise.  It's difficult to draw parallels with North who still have Higgins, Goldstein, Robbie Tarrant, Ziebell, Cunnington, Brown all 25 years old with 100 odd games of football?   Who do we have in this bracket to match that?   Our blokes at that age bracket are Kerridge, Lamb, Mullett, Shaw, Phillips, Jones, Casboult, Wright, Curnow, Kreuzer, Lobbe.    Battlers and honest footballers.   These are the guys that are consistent with their performance week in week out.
North haven't cut back like we have.  They still have talent at the top end.    If they traded Zeibell and Higgins maybe.   

In 3-4 years time who will have the better list when this bracket moves on.

So timeframe?

GWS took 4 years to break 50/50, but had a massive injection of young talent.

Maybe similar to the Demons rebuild.    Vintage 2012.

Moved (or lost)  Rivers, Moloney, Stef Martin, Green, Sylvia, Frawley.   Cut the dead wood and didn't have much top end older talent.

2012: 16th 4 wins.   Rebuild Starts
2013:  17th 2 wins
2014:  17th 4 wins
2015:  13th 7 wins.
2016:  11th 10 wins.
2017:  9th  12 wins.

Now Melbourne haven't mastered the rebuild.   It's not the Blueprint, but it shows how long it can take and yes I think it can be done quicker with FA etc.   But you have Gawn (26), Viney (24), Hogan (23), Salem (22), Petracca (22), Hunt (23), Tyson (24) all at that 60-100 game bracket.   Add Oliver and you are on your way.
   
I would think bottom 4 next year.