Didn't disgrace ourselves, but didn't really distinguish ourselves either.
A lot of things that could be said, but I'll mention just one ; too many pie floaters. We kick the ball to the right place, but the trajectory is almost parabolic, giving the opposition ample time to come in and spoil the mark.
Pretty average result. Neither team would be overly happy with that.
But another game, another loss.
Didn't disserve to win
We don't work hard enough
Murph needs to find a way to shake tags
Had our chance to get back in it but fluffed our chances as bloody usual
Dumb decision making
Poor skills
Umpiring in general is joke.
What the hells happened to the holding the ball and pushed in the back interpretations ?
Lowest crowd between these 2 teams at the MCG since 1921!
That says a lot about the modern game, and a lot about the sunday night fixture.....and a bit about the weather.
Umpiring in general is joke.
What the hells happened to the holding the ball and pushed in the back interpretations ?
In the new edition of the umpiring manual those pages went missing.
Another week another game we could've won fluffed.
Murphy, Henderson miss two easy goals, straight up the other end for a goal. 23pt turnaround all up, we lost by 15.
Disappointing loss but we weren't as bad as I feared we might be. We lack poise and polish but we fought it out to the end against tough opposition IMO. We definitely need more class, especially in the midfield and our tackling and pressure on the opposition ball carrier is too often very weak.
Oh Curnow.
With Murphy held and Judd and Gibbs not dominant we looked very one paced through the midfield, Curnow, Carrazzo and McLean are all plodders.
Warnock was soundly beaten by Collingwood's P Plater, our foot skills were poor as usual, Armfield and Menzel had shockers.
Walker, Tuohy, Simpson, Robinson, all good but Collingwood were much better on the break and used it just a bit better than we did.
Can't fault the endeavour, they're busting their guts.
Menzel is going to win our goal kicking by the looks of it.
Nothing to get excited about a side from we got close.
Didn't disserve to win
We don't work hard enough
Murph needs to find a way to shake tags
Had our chance to get back in it but fluffed our chances as bloody usual
Dumb decision making
Poor skills
Umpiring in general is joke.
What the hells happened to the holding the ball and pushed in the back interpretations ?
Agree with all the above.
How shocked did Warnock look when he took a contested mark from the kick in?
We push everyone, top to bottom, just don't get around to beating anyone.
Too many light bodies that cant break tackles and make tackles stick, a couple of slow players that cant get away from players and too many poor skilled players who also make dumb decisions.....ie Curnow.
When you are a very average kick like Curnow you need to keep it simple...hand it off or look for the safe option...
We push everyone, top to bottom, just don't get around to beating anyone.
Sometimes we get belted as well.
We push everyone, top to bottom, just don't get around to beating anyone.
Poor finishing, we miss to many gettable chances in front of goal.
How can 22 guys be out of form simultaneously?
Brock and Armfield are probably shot as senior players and I think its time for them to spend the rest of the year in the NB's
Cripps when fit and Holman should be played......I thought Johnson was reasonable and just needs to get used to the quicker pace of the game
but he is a player to persist with....
We push everyone, top to bottom, just don't get around to beating anyone.
Poor finishing, we miss to many gettable chances in front of goal.
Symptomatic of lack of confidence and poise.
We push everyone, top to bottom, just don't get around to beating anyone.
Sometimes we get belted as well.
Very poor skills by foot. Curnow, McLean, Carazzo and Robinson are the worst offenders. Butter fingers McLean should only play at Etihad. He's too slow for the larger grounds.
Brock and Armfield are probably shot as senior players and I think its time for them to spend the rest of the year in the NB's
Cripps when fit and Holman should be played......I thought Johnson was reasonable and just needs to get used to the quicker pace of the game
but he is a player to persist with....
Looking at our list there are a few that need to be traded, yet few have trade value. Can see us delisting a few more comes seasons end.
Add in confidence at the lowest possible ebb.. Docherty is a shadow of the player he was.
At least Hendo stood up when counted but why bomb every entry to the same spot and expect MOTY? Where are the crumbers? Where are the lead up flanking options? Why the 1980's gameplan.... so predictable.
22 players out of form simultaneously because they don't hear the message any more... they've lost faith and supercoach has lost them.
How can 22 guys be out of form simultaneously?
don't to think they are. I think it's more a case of players getting deflated when efforts aren't capitalized on.
Throughout the Game thread, there was plenty of teeth-grinding, kicking of the cat, head-butting of brick walls, all in despair at the quality of our list and the obvious passengers we are carrying right now.
Now we have to accept that our list isn't great, I'm sure most would concede that point. However, there really is the makings of something decent there with the young guys coming through.
Even though Menzel had a quiet night & Docherty rushed his disposals, they are going to be good players for us over the long-term. Throw in Buckley, young Johnson who wasn't fazed by the big occasion tonight and it is starting to take some shape.
We also have that next rung up of older players like Murphy, Gibbs, Henderson, Yarran, Everitt, & Curnow to work with the aging players of Simpson, Walker, Judd & Thomas and we are not far off the mark.
McLean & Carrazzo really stood out tonight but for all the wrong reasons, they were slow, couldn't lay a tackle and seemed rather disinterested. Warnock got his hand to the aggot a lot but its highly debateable whether it went to our advantage. Jamison was a non-event tonight and he showed that he is going to struggle in big games at times.
Overall, we stunk it up badly early in the piece and handed them an easy lead and then spent the rest of the night playing "catch-up football", something you can only achieve with solid tackling and ball disposal.
Frustrating & infuriating overall but I'm not worried about that, I'm more focussed on the young kids in the team, they are the future and they are the ones to get everyone excited in anticipation about what the future may hold.
Really hope that Johnson keeps his spot for the rest of the season and Nick Graham gets selected next week too.
Looking forward to seeing some of the older guys changed over for some new young up & comers, we will be good to go big-time !!!
We push everyone, top to bottom, just don't get around to beating anyone.
Poor finishing, we miss to many gettable chances in front of goal.
Symptomatic of lack of confidence and poise.
Or perhaps poor kicking at goal is the cause of lack of confidence and poise rather than the result. Vicious circle. It's perplexing how crap we are when kicking for goal
Once again I find myself watching a group of spuds throwing away a game.
Armfield
Casboult
Mclean
Walker
Curnow
Warnock
Delist or trade these players IMMEDIATELY!!
Butter fingers McLean should only play at Etihad. He's too slow for the larger grounds.
I don't think it's his foot speed that is the problem. I have never seen such slow disposal of the ball once it's in his hands. I mean, it's like time slows down Matrix-like for him but, unfortunately, for everyone around him, it's normal speed.
Throughout the Game thread, there was plenty of teeth-grinding, kicking of the cat, head-butting of brick walls, all in despair at the quality of our list and the obvious passengers we are carrying right now.
Now we have to accept that our list isn't great, I'm sure most would concede that point. However, there really is the makings of something decent there with the young guys coming through.
Even though Menzel had a quiet night & Docherty rushed his disposals, they are going to be good players for us over the long-term. Throw in Buckley, young Johnson who wasn't fazed by the big occasion tonight and it is starting to take some shape.
We also have that next rung up of older players like Murphy, Gibbs, Henderson, Yarran, Everitt, & Curnow to work with the aging players of Simpson, Walker, Judd & Thomas and we are not far off the mark.
McLean & Carrazzo really stood out tonight but for all the wrong reasons, they were slow, couldn't lay a tackle and seemed rather disinterested. Warnock got his hand to the aggot a lot but its highly debateable whether it went to our advantage. Jamison was a non-event tonight and he showed that he is going to struggle in big games at times.
Overall, we stunk it up badly early in the piece and handed them an easy lead and then spent the rest of the night playing "catch-up football", something you can only achieve with solid tackling and ball disposal.
Frustrating & infuriating overall but I'm not worried about that, I'm more focussed on the young kids in the team, they are the future and they are the ones to get everyone excited in anticipation about what the future may hold.
Really hope that Johnson keeps his spot for the rest of the season and Nick Graham gets selected next week too.
Looking forward to seeing some of the older guys changed over for some new young up & comers, we will be good to go big-time !!!
Agree with all of that....I think the role of Full back needs to be looked at seriously by the club...we need to find a replacement for Jamison who was
often yards behind Cloke tonight and was very dissapointing.
Throughout the Game thread, there was plenty of teeth-grinding, kicking of the cat, head-butting of brick walls, all in despair at the quality of our list and the obvious passengers we are carrying right now.
Now we have to accept that our list isn't great, I'm sure most would concede that point. However, there really is the makings of something decent there with the young guys coming through.
Even though Menzel had a quiet night & Docherty rushed his disposals, they are going to be good players for us over the long-term. Throw in Buckley, young Johnson who wasn't fazed by the big occasion tonight and it is starting to take some shape.
We also have that next rung up of older players like Murphy, Gibbs, Henderson, Yarran, Everitt, & Curnow to work with the aging players of Simpson, Walker, Judd & Thomas and we are not far off the mark.
McLean & Carrazzo really stood out tonight but for all the wrong reasons, they were slow, couldn't lay a tackle and seemed rather disinterested. Warnock got his hand to the aggot a lot but its highly debateable whether it went to our advantage. Jamison was a non-event tonight and he showed that he is going to struggle in big games at times.
Overall, we stunk it up badly early in the piece and handed them an easy lead and then spent the rest of the night playing "catch-up football", something you can only achieve with solid tackling and ball disposal.
Frustrating & infuriating overall but I'm not worried about that, I'm more focussed on the young kids in the team, they are the future and they are the ones to get everyone excited in anticipation about what the future may hold.
Really hope that Johnson keeps his spot for the rest of the season and Nick Graham gets selected next week too.
Looking forward to seeing some of the older guys changed over for some new young up & comers, we will be good to go big-time !!!
Agree with all of that....I think the role of Full back needs to be looked at seriously by the club...we need to find a replacement for Jamison who was
often yards behind Cloke tonight and was very dissapointing.
Good reason to chase Frawley as a free agent.
Many people creamed heir jcks at Levi's game against the Hawks.
I and many others on the other hand, reserved our judgements until he put in a more consistent effort.
Last two weeks we ve seen the same old invisible Levi/
He's 24 FFS... how long do we have to keep persisting with a sub standard key forward option.
We Simply cant play Carazzo, Mclean and curnow in the same game
Curnow did reasonable well after a long layoff - keeping Beams to below his normal output.
Thought the pies let us off lightly tonight to be honest.
Good to see us on fta tv again, despite the result.
Many people creamed heir jcks at Levi's game against the Hawks.
I and many others on the other hand, reserved our judgements until he put in a more consistent effort.
Last two weeks we ve seen the same old invisible Levi/
He's 24 FFS... how long do we have to keep persisting with a sub standard key forward option.
I was one who wasnt getting carried away with him and to fair he has tried hard around the ground and in the ruck.
But his kicking remains an issue and we now have him employing the Buddy angled approach with mixed results..its hard to win games when you have Key
Fowards like Levi and Henderson unbale to convert easy shots and to be a top team you need top class forwards who can convert.
Many people creamed heir jcks at Levi's game against the Hawks.
I and many others on the other hand, reserved our judgements until he put in a more consistent effort.
Last two weeks we ve seen the same old invisible Levi/
He's 24 FFS... how long do we have to keep persisting with a sub standard key forward option.
As long as it takes to find someone who can play there. Light on for those options right now so one has to make the best of what we have.
I thought Jamison played pretty well, Cloke is a bloody good footballer, Collingwood use the ball better than us and the delivery to him was very good most of the night.
I thought our defence was good, we got cut up through the middle at times and our forward line pressure was lacking, if Waite was fit it's a crime he didn't play and the members deserve an explanation.
If he plays we go very close.
Bang on Smurfy.. can't play Carrots, MacLean and Curnow in the same side. At least one must go.
Bang on Smurfy.. can't play Carrots, MacLean and Curnow in the same side. At least one must go.
If we are serious, all three must go.
Bang on Smurfy.. can't play Carrots, MacLean and Curnow in the same side. At least one must go.
Two I reckon.
They're slow, average skills, don't kick goals, very predictable footballers.
Play the kid who played tonight and Tom Bell, Bell at least has a bit of flair and can smell a goal.
We lack spark.
I'd keep Curnow. Carrots is getting longer in the tooth. McLean has been very patchy this season.
We Simply cant play Carazzo, Mclean and curnow in the same game
Yep it makes us too small and too slow.
Bang on Smurfy.. can't play Carrots, MacLean and Curnow in the same side. At least one must go.
If we are serious, all three must go.
Agree
I'd keep Curnow. Carrots is getting longer in the tooth. McLean has been very patchy this season.
Agreed
Will be lucky to beat the Saints
And then no more wins for the year I reckon
Throughout the Game thread, there was plenty of teeth-grinding, kicking of the cat, head-butting of brick walls, all in despair at the quality of our list and the obvious passengers we are carrying right now.
Now we have to accept that our list isn't great, I'm sure most would concede that point. However, there really is the makings of something decent there with the young guys coming through.
Even though Menzel had a quiet night & Docherty rushed his disposals, they are going to be good players for us over the long-term. Throw in Buckley, young Johnson who wasn't fazed by the big occasion tonight and it is starting to take some shape.
We also have that next rung up of older players like Murphy, Gibbs, Henderson, Yarran, Everitt, & Curnow to work with the aging players of Simpson, Walker, Judd & Thomas and we are not far off the mark.
McLean & Carrazzo really stood out tonight but for all the wrong reasons, they were slow, couldn't lay a tackle and seemed rather disinterested. Warnock got his hand to the aggot a lot but its highly debateable whether it went to our advantage. Jamison was a non-event tonight and he showed that he is going to struggle in big games at times.
Overall, we stunk it up badly early in the piece and handed them an easy lead and then spent the rest of the night playing "catch-up football", something you can only achieve with solid tackling and ball disposal.
Frustrating & infuriating overall but I'm not worried about that, I'm more focussed on the young kids in the team, they are the future and they are the ones to get everyone excited in anticipation about what the future may hold.
Really hope that Johnson keeps his spot for the rest of the season and Nick Graham gets selected next week too.
Looking forward to seeing some of the older guys changed over for some new young up & comers, we will be good to go big-time !!!
Agree with all of that....I think the role of Full back needs to be looked at seriously by the club...we need to find a replacement for Jamison who was
often yards behind Cloke tonight and was very dissapointing.
Lachie needs to go back there with Rowe EB1 and we need to focus on finding a good KPF. Also agree - a good analysis by Sheik.
Murphy is the worst carlton captain i have seen
Not hard enough or leading enough
Murphy is the worst carlton captain i have seen
Not hard enough or leading enough
Lance was worse
Murphy is the worst carlton captain i have seen
Not hard enough or leading enough
Lance was worse
Hey, I am right here.
Curnows foot skills are poor and he has no left foot......he did a fair job on Beams and got a bit of ball but he doesnt hurt teams..
Curnows foot skills are poor and he has no left foot......he did a fair job on Beams and got a bit of ball but he doesnt hurt teams..
Franchina, except he can run a bit
Murphy is the worst carlton captain i have seen
Not hard enough or leading enough
But what about the skipper of your club MF.
Jobe isn't it?
Curnows foot skills are poor and he has no left foot......he did a fair job on Beams and got a bit of ball but he doesnt hurt teams..
He hurt us a few times tonight.
Murphy is the worst carlton captain i have seen
Not hard enough or leading enough
But what about the skipper of your club MF.
Jobe isn't it?
Take your medication cimm....
Curnows foot skills are poor and he has no left foot......he did a fair job on Beams and got a bit of ball but he doesnt hurt teams..
He will be retained for another season because we won't have a replacement for him straight away. He'll end up playing in the Magoos permanently and be used purely as a back-up in case of injury or suspension.
Murphy is the worst carlton captain i have seen
Not hard enough or leading enough
But what about the skipper of your club MF.
Jobe isn't it?
Take your medication cimm....
Head over to the Bombers thread champ.
Popping bubbly over there.
Your lucky though, this site doesn't ban trolls. But you can keep LappinBombersstick company.
I was at the game and tried to watch some off the ball action. Murph is very quiet in and around contests. Whereas Gibbs is very vocal, instructing and positioning players. He is about the only one!
Another qualm with us sticking up for teammates... Docherty had two guys grabbing him by the scruff his neck, do you think Carrots or Walker would go and give me a biff!? Heck no!
A crap game to watch.
I was at the game and tried to watch some off the ball action. Murph is very quiet in and around contests. Whereas Gibbs is very vocal, instructing and positioning players. He is about the only one!
Another qualm with us sticking up for teammates... Docherty had two guys grabbing him by the scruff his neck, do you think Carrots or Walker would go and give me a biff!? Heck no!
A crap game to watch.
BM, I noted, gladly I might add, that at 3QTime huddle it was Gibbsy doing the talking and rallying.
I was at the game and tried to watch some off the ball action. Murph is very quiet in and around contests. Whereas Gibbs is very vocal, instructing and positioning players. He is about the only one!
Another qualm with us sticking up for teammates... Docherty had two guys grabbing him by the scruff his neck, do you think Carrots or Walker would go and give me a biff!? Heck no!
A crap game to watch.
BM, I noted, gladly I might add, that at 3QTime huddle it was Gibbsy doing the talking and rallying.
He was, IS, the most vocal player out there. Even Carrots, Judd and Walks put in their two cents worth every now and then. Tonight.... Nothing. It just looked like they didn't give a crap. Judd is battered and bruised. The players did not want to win tonight. No desire, no hunger.
Murphy is the worst carlton captain i have seen
Not hard enough or leading enough
But what about the skipper of your club MF.
Jobe isn't it?
Take your medication cimm....
Head over to the Bombers thread champ.
Popping bubbly over there.
Your lucky though, this site doesn't ban trolls. But you can keep LappinBombersstick company.
Thanks to u champ...
@ BM Despite all other negatives this is one positive of late worthy of mention. In previous years Gibbsy has been reserved. Should take over VC from Carrots next season.
Being out tackled by 23 is a damming stat for me. We have experienced big bodied midfielders, yet weren't able to compete physically in the contest. Very dissapointing
Bang on Smurfy.. can't play Carrots, MacLean and Curnow in the same side. At least one must go.
Exactly the same thing was said by many on here last week too......clearly common sense ain't all that common.
I'd keep Curnow. Carrots is getting longer in the tooth. McLean has been very patchy this season.
Agreed
Yep - agree with this too. Curnow is horrible by foot generally, but when he hasn't got the ball in his hands, that's where we get real value from him. Rarely gets beaten on the day and is genuine one-percenter machine.
@ BM Despite all other negatives this is one positive of late worthy of mention. In previous years Gibbsy has been reserved. Should take over VC from Carrots next season.
I think it's great that Gibbsy is becoming a leader. It's a great sign! It's just a shame that so many other seasoned players just step back and keep their mouths shut.
Yes you need Indians, but you can't have order if you have no chiefs!
Our desire couldn't be questioned after quarter time, but our execution.....*sigh*.
MCC was an absolute ghost town tonight, never seen anything like it for any Carlton away game at the MCG (as I only sit in the MCC for Carlton away games). Hopefully that's the last we see of that time slot for these 2 teams.
Umpiring all round tonight was quite laughable.
Get excited about Blaine Johnson people. Stats wouldn't show it, but this guy loves the physical stuff, looks to be a genuine hard-nut, who spreads well, reads the game well and can use the footy. Physically did not look out of place at and I'll be furious if he is dropped for next week.
Where do we start for simple, missed opportunities in front of goal: Robbo, Henderson, Casboult and course our inspirational captain. All of them key shots at key times, some things never change.
Another more than winnable game.....if only skill wasn't required to get the job done, we'd be world beaters.
Lose next week and that'll be it, winless for the rest of the year.....you can put your house on that.
Was that just a Brettie's kiss of death!!
I haven't been around here that long, but from my current knowledge, does that mean we'll win next week? And possibly every other week after that!? - due to Brettie's predictions
Pretty good effort that.
Still not convinced the coach is trying to win these games.
If we are MM needs some help in the box because we gave up the entire 1st quarter because we didn't adjust to the Collingwood structure of the extra one and sometimes two in the back half.
I can't believe that Laidley wouldn't have spotted that in the first minute.
Looking at how we are travelling what makes anyone think we can beat the saints. Surely they are due for a win and we have been beaten by all below us on the ladder so far. Or near to at that.
I said alot of years ago we were awful. People on here said I was negative- hell, I was even banned. I said our list was crape. I said we had big issues at the top. We are a club in turmoil. Don't give me this 'oh we'll be okay if we play the kids'... truth is, we've recuited absolute crapola...we don't have any good kids! (with the exception of Menzle and Possibly Casboult). We need a total clean out starting from the board down. Seriously, we will finish 17th or 18th this year and that is a disaster for a side with 17 first round draft picks in it! Murphy was an awful choice as captain. Should have gone to Gibbs. The other issue is we have people like Simpson and Carrots who are reminants of the Pagan era who people think are guns. Mate they are crapola. We should keep Murphy, Gibbs, Rowe, Jammo, Warnock, Daisy (even though he is crap but he might get better), Yarran, Hendo, Touhy, Menzle, Casboult and Judd. The rest, Goodbye and NEVER to return. We are that far behind the competition at the moment it's not funny. It's ridiculous that we kept our recruiter... he is a spud. We need to get rid of Johhny Barker and Green and Co. They are spuds. Malthouse is a joke. Flick him.
So it would seem that in the laws of seeking out quality draft picks that we have endured another honourable loss that shall indeed be followed by a loss to a gallant St Kilda next week.
Wow I've only fallen asleep in front of two Carlton games in my life, both this year, both Collingwood! That's assessment of the game.
Might I add I did stay awake long enough to see Marc Murphy put his body on the line standing in the hole twice, the kid is becoming a captain.
Being out tackled by 23 is a damming stat for me. We have experienced big bodied midfielders, yet weren't able to compete physically in the contest. Very dissapointing
WE generally weren't anywhere near a contest most of the night...... they moved the ball from D50 to their forward line with laughable ease.....
Might I add I did stay awake long enough to see Marc Murphy put his body on the line standing in the hole twice, the kid is becoming a captain.
Yep, that set shot from 35m out in third and his ability to work through the tag certainly has me convinced.
Btw, that's now 3 weeks in a row whereby Warnock's opponent has been clearly in their best and who have been in the top 3 for SC scores. My lawn mower's got a bigger tank than Warnock. He has been largely abysmal the past 3 weeks and I for one would love to see Cam Wood get a gig ahead of him (is he eligible?) If it's good enough for the likes of Waite and Garlett to be dropped, then why not Warnock?
We're all pretty aware of Levi's kicking problems but I'm not sure the 'Franklin curve' is the answer.....especially close to goal.
On that last shot he nearly ran into the behind post to angle it back and the ball ended up on the opposite side.
Menzel should be dropped back to the VFL......not because he had a bad game, but because he's in real danger of picking up the bad habits and inconsistencies of the forward rabble he plays with.
As a matter of fact, keep all the young ones back there and let them develop some real "team"understanding and strategies.
Trade Judd....he deserves to finish his career in dignity, and not as part of a circus.
(Sorry...... just angry.
I'll be OK after I've had some breakfast and a cup of tea. :()
Man this was a shizen game. I am trying to think back to it and all I remember is Thomas handballing to his teammat... Err opponent who waltzes into a goal, Gibbs doing a few nice things around packs, robbo getting his head smashed and Murphy filling a hole. Everything else wiped.
You cannot win football matches playing blokes who are not 100% fit. MM is a massive failure in this regard because he talks about it a lot but he doesn't do what he says, it is just lip service and obfuscation!
I have no doubt that the following blokes were not fit enough to play last night;
Murphy
Armfield
Henderson
Jamison
Everitt
Tuohy
Added to our reported injury list, how we find ourselves in this situation week after week and season after season is both puzzling and bemusing. It is an abject failure of our MC, fitness staff and culture and has been for some time.
It is also a indictment on our list in general that our captain who was clearly hampered with injury was the only player putting himself in harms way regularly.
Man this was a shizen game. I am trying to think back to it and all I remember is Thomas handballing to his teammat... Err opponent who waltzes into a goal, Gibbs doing a few nice things around packs, robbo getting his head smashed and Murphy filling a hole. Everything else wiped.
We play a forgettable brand of football :(
We play a forgettable brand of football :(
I commend you for finding a brand if you have managed to identify a style, I thought it was mostly chaos?
This is far worse than anything we saw under Ratten, all hope has been surgically removed from this group of players! MM is making Ratten look like an over-achiever!
Btw, that's now 3 weeks in a row whereby Warnock's opponent has been clearly in their best and who have been in the top 3 for SC scores. My lawn mower's got a bigger tank than Warnock. He has been largely abysmal the past 3 weeks and I for one would love to see Cam Wood get a gig ahead of him (is he eligible?) If it's good enough for the likes of Waite and Garlett to be dropped, then why not Warnock?
God almighty every time I see sauce Jacobs have a great game (as he did yesterday) I spit chips at the imbeciles who decided to let him go to Adelaide. I know he wanted to get back there but honestly we should've tried a hell of a lot harder to keep him and offload the spud Warnock. He is as bad a ruckman as I've seen in any team ever. Oh, maybe slightly better than Ricky Mott.
Warnock was a high price recruit, MK was a number 1 pick. Sam wanted some assurances and we were in no position to give them.
Mick's post match...
http://www.carltonfc.com.au/video/2014-06-29/cfc-tv-malthouse-post-match-r15
Some interesting comments about Yarran but not much else.
Mick sounded a bit crook.
Warnock was a high price recruit, MK was a number 1 pick. Sam wanted some assurances and we were in no position to give them.
Sam wanted to go home, he wasn't asking for assurances he wanted out!
Warnock was a high price recruit, MK was a number 1 pick. Sam wanted some assurances and we were in no position to give them.
Sam wanted to go home, he wasn't asking for assurances he wanted out!
Ratten told him the other 3 were ahead of him. He'd have stayed if he knew he was a shot at being the number 1 ruck.
Mick's post match...
http://www.carltonfc.com.au/video/2014-06-29/cfc-tv-malthouse-post-match-r15
Some interesting comments about Yarran but not much else.
Mick sounded a bit crook.
So the first words out his mouth are
"class beat us" MM translation _ "It's not my fault."
Second sentence out of his mouth
"Dale was tense, looking for the perfect game" MM Tanslation "it's not my high priced recruits fault even though I got rid of Eddie and he dominated for the Crows"
I actually think we played pretty well, but FMD does this guy ever take the blame?
Amazing how he comes up with excuses for himself and Thomas. Is this bloke for real? WTF have we done?
Warnock was a high price recruit, MK was a number 1 pick. Sam wanted some assurances and we were in no position to give them.
Sam wanted to go home, he wasn't asking for assurances he wanted out!
What its out time says above
Ratten told him the other 3 were ahead of him. He'd have stayed if he knew he was a shot at being the number 1 ruck.
Are you referring to the article that was printed in Adelaide when Jacobs was interviewed on his return?
I think that article referred to a Jacobs assessment that left him 3rd or 4th in the pecking order, and at the time it was correct because he was clearly 3rd in the 1st ruck pecking order. Although he was already better around the ground than Warnock and perhaps Hampson despite being much slower across the ground than both. Sauces problem was that in practice games all three stiched him up game after game.
But debating Sauce is asking the wrong question, the question you need to ask is how we ended up with Warnock who is a complete one trick pony and in my opinion the weakest of the set?
Tap work is over-rated, real 1st rucks impose themselves in the contest, A La Mumford!
Ratten has to answer for that one. Sauce was one of our best in his last game for us, a final in Sydney! The MC cornered themselves by putting Krezuer and Warnock on too much coin, they simply could not afford anywhere near the amount Sauce wanted. So in short there was nothing that could be done at the time but better list management would've had us in a stronger position to keep him.
I said alot of years ago we were awful. People on here said I was negative- hell, I was even banned. I said our list was crape. I said we had big issues at the top. We are a club in turmoil. Don't give me this 'oh we'll be okay if we play the kids'... truth is, we've recuited absolute crapola...we don't have any good kids! (with the exception of Menzle and Possibly Casboult). We need a total clean out starting from the board down. Seriously, we will finish 17th or 18th this year and that is a disaster for a side with 17 first round draft picks in it! Murphy was an awful choice as captain. Should have gone to Gibbs. The other issue is we have people like Simpson and Carrots who are reminants of the Pagan era who people think are guns. Mate they are crapola. We should keep Murphy, Gibbs, Rowe, Jammo, Warnock, Daisy (even though he is crap but he might get better), Yarran, Hendo, Touhy, Menzle, Casboult and Judd. The rest, Goodbye and NEVER to return. We are that far behind the competition at the moment it's not funny. It's ridiculous that we kept our recruiter... he is a spud. We need to get rid of Johhny Barker and Green and Co. They are spuds. Malthouse is a joke. Flick him.
I agree with the thrust of this not necessarily the detail
There is a culture of complacency setting in our club now
If this result happened under the harris era players would not be paid as a minimum...
Ratten has to answer for that one. Sauce was one of our best in his last game for us, a final in Sydney! The MC cornered themselves by putting Krezuer and Warnock on too much coin, they simply could not afford anywhere near the amount Sauce wanted. So in short there was nothing that could be done at the time but better list management would've had us in a stronger position to keep him.
True but by that game the ship had sailed, Sauce was playing is last game and only the dollars depended on his output!
It is easy to talk about this in hindsight but nobody had a crystal ball back then, at the time Kreuzer was a top draft pick and looked a million dollars compared to all the others which left Warnock, Hampson and Sauce battling for 2nd place with even Casboult and O'hAilpin looking more likely KPF / 2nd ruck options as well!
Jacobs was clearly better than Warnock and Hampson but we went with the potential of the those two because we already had Kreuzer.
Kreuzer has been injured and Hampson and Warnock have been epic failures.
But debating Sauce is asking the wrong question, the question you need to ask is how we ended up with Warnock who is a complete one trick pony and in my opinion the weakest of the set?
Sam is probably a good lesson for our club. We didn't actually realise that he was ready to take on the comp's best rucks regularly from early on. We went down the potential route and then couldn't develop these guys. Maybe stick the the Richs of this world?
Jacobs was clearly better than Warnock and Hampson but we went with the potential of the those two because we already had Kreuzer.
Kreuzer has been injured and Hampson and Warnock have been epic failures.
I think you have mentally extended Jacobs recent good form into his past! That clearly isn't clearly born out by the game selections at the time. Jacobs was 2nd rucking at The Ants behind the likes Warnock, Hampson and O'hAiplin when they were fit. At the same time Jacobs was also not even on the KPP radar behind O'hAilpin, Hampson, Casboult and others. So he was clearly not the preferred 1st ruck, he wasn't the preferred 2nd ruck and he wasn't considered a KPP option!
Sam is probably a good lesson for our club. We didn't actually realise that he was ready to take on the comp's best rucks regularly from early on. We went down the potential route and then couldn't develop these guys. Maybe stick the the Richs of this world?
Your debating this in hindsight given SpecialK's run of injuries, which mostly happened after Sauce had left! There won't be a single honest MC staff member, club supporter or avid football follower (Excluding Jacob's mum) who would have assessed him as the preferred 2nd ruck option behind Kreuzer back in 2010.
It is easy to talk about this in hindsight but nobody had a crystal ball back then,
I told anyone who would listen that Hampson was a hack and got accused of being anti Carlton for my trouble.
If I was Jacobs and a spud like Hampson was getting games ahead of me I would have wanted out as well.
I was MIA in 2010 but I agreed with these guys
Elwood on Jacobs on Aug 31 2010
Hampson wont be traded......Hampson was another" upside pick" from Hughes that hasnt gone to plan and I dont see the footy dept admitting Jacobs is better than Hampson.
Hampson will be given more time to develop and Jacobs is the easy trade back home....even though we all know Jacobs is the better ruckman and will probably be a very good player for either Port or the Crows and have us wishing we never traded him....
Sheik on Jacobs Sep 5th 2010
Jacobs should be retained, his game today against the Swans was very good. I think Hampson is the one under the pump now.
Brettie on Jacobs Sep 5th 2010
After today's game, I'd be hoping the MC bend over backwards to assure him that his future lay with us. Jacobs i can see been traded away & hurting us, can't say the same for Hampson. Hampson has had some nice moments this year, but he's still way, way, way, too raw for mine, whereas you watch Jacobs today & know you've got a young ruckman there who knows his way around a football ground & who has clearly worked on getting better everytime time he plays.
He was seriously brilliant today, no way known Hampson could've delivered for us today what Jacobs did
Jamie on Jacobs Sep 12th 2010
Rocks in our head if we trade this guy... Hammer has to go if anyone...
Might I add I did stay awake long enough to see Marc Murphy put his body on the line standing in the hole twice, the kid is becoming a captain.
How about the way the filth's tagger (mc-crapper? ha) had both arms around Murphy, above the shoulder, at one stage across the neck too, prior to a bounce/toss up, and its just let go by the umps.
Must have been whilst I was asleep! :)
Might I add I did stay awake long enough to see Marc Murphy put his body on the line standing in the hole twice, the kid is becoming a captain.
How about the way the filth's tagger (mc-crapper? ha) had both arms around Murphy, above the shoulder, at one stage across the neck too, prior to a bounce/toss up, and its just let go by the umps.
McCaffer is a Cheat, and I was proud of Murphy that all though he was probably beaten, he worked and worked and worked for his team-mates, lifting them as best he could.
McCaffer is worse than Crowley, seriously Mitch Robinson if you were going to hit someone?
I was MIA in 2010 but I agreed with these guys
How about a quote from supporters prior to his first final, when the issue was actually being discussed mid season when there were rumors of offers on the table from Adelaide and the reports emerged that he was gone?
The deal was done and dusted and he was heading home before the finals even started!
CARLTON ruckman Sam Jacobs has requested a trade to the Adelaide Crows during the forthcoming exchange period.
The trade would allow Jacobs to return home to South Australia.
Jacobs made his Carlton debut in Round 1, 2009 and has played 17 AFL games.
Jacobs was recruited to the Blues from Androssan via Woodville-West Torrens in the 2007 rookie draft.
Carlton’s football operations general manager Steven Icke said the club was disappointed with Jacob’s trade request.
“While disappointed with Sam’s decision to return back to South Australia, the Club will now commence discussions with the Adelaide Crows to enable a suitable exchange,” Icke said.
I was MIA in 2010 but I agreed with these guys
How about a quote from supporters prior to his first final, when the issue was actually being discussed mid season when there were rumors of offers on the table from Adelaide and the reports emerged that he was gone?
The deal was done and dusted and he was heading home before the finals even started!
Elwood's was before the game. ;)
I could look for more but I've made my point that opinion was divided on where Jacob's sat. I had no problem with keeping Hampson as he had the potential to be anything and was worth the punt but getting Warnock has turned out to be another horrific blunder.
Elwood's was before the game. ;)
I could look for more but I've made my point that opinion was divided on where Jacob's sat. I had no problem with keeping Hampson as he had the potential to be anything and was worth the punt but getting Warnock has turned out to be another horrific blunder.
I think you will find Elwood's comments came the week after Jacobs had a great game against the Cats, Jacobs second last game for the club.
I just think it is re-writting history to think we had a choice. Jacobs wasn't the first choice ruck or a KPP option and he asked to be traded back to Adelaide we had no choice.
The history is there in the quotes, 4 long time posters preferred Jacobs. Elwood absolutely nailed it, should apply for a job down there.
McCaffer is a Cheat, and I was proud of Murphy that all though he was probably beaten, he worked and worked and worked for his team-mates, lifting them as best he could.
Murphy worked really hard and probably got his usual amount of contested possessions and tackles. He was well down in uncontested possessions but a lot of that has to do with his team mates not bumping and blocking McCaffer at every opportunity. Murphy shouldn't be the one to fill the hole in front of opposition tall forwards too.
Other positives for me were Henderson's improved form in the second half, Rowe's continued improvement and growing confidence, Johnson's debut and Yarran's poise and execution.
Negatives were Malthouse being caught out again by opposition tactics, our lack of purpose, poor delivery and the frustration it caused, lack of defensive pressure in the midfield, poor tackle count, being exposed by Collingwood's run off half-back, and our lack of run off half-back.
Would Jacobs have been the same player if he'd stayed at Carlton ;)
Would Jacobs have been the same player if he'd stayed at Carlton ;)
A good question, we have b0rked up a bunch of them so far, but it may have benefited the others which is why I argued against later trades. Rucks are really NFG until they get to 26 or 27, and we have flogged a bunch of them as 22 or 23 year olds.
We needed to keep the rucks so that we could manage them better, now we have lost all flexibility and the remnants are paying a heavy price.
If SpecialK does get back to even 80% of his best, with Rowe and Casboult getting better and hopefully better still, what happens to Warnock? I'd accept 15 or 20 less taps a game for a few timely defensive marks or the odd effective tackle or shepherd!
Would Jacobs have been the same player if he'd stayed at Carlton ;)
Good point.. Same could be asked of Chris Bond, and Leoncelli in earlier years, and inversely for Scotland from the Pies. At other clubs there's J Schultz that comes to mind. It's not isolated just to us. Human beings respond differently to particular environments and corresponding opportunities. But in Jacobs case I'd say he would have developed into what he has if he stayed, they just had to listen to his performances rather than be guided by adhering to conviction of their previous selection decisions. It would have amounted to a kind of admission that they stuffed up that second round pick used on Hamspon. That's why such errors usually don't get corrected until there's personnel changes in footy departments, until the previous personnel responsible and attached to prior decisions are gone.
Not sure if already mentioned, I noticed Mick was again quizzed about end of year list changes during post game presser. This time he rightly replied that any decisions regarding list would be made post season.
Not sure if already mentioned, I noticed Mick was again quizzed about end of year list changes during post game presser. This time he rightly replied that any decisions regarding list would be made post season.
His demeanor has definitely changed and I wouldn't be surprised if he has been assured his job. End result: his bizarre head games played out in the media slow :P
Not sure if already mentioned, I noticed Mick was again quizzed about end of year list changes during post game presser. This time he rightly replied that any decisions regarding list would be made post season.
His demeanor has definitely changed and I wouldn't be surprised if he has been assured his job. End result: his bizarre head games played out in the media slow :P
I was actually surprised at the lack of "testiness" at the press conference.
Thought he'd be a bit more worked up than that.
Not sure if already mentioned, I noticed Mick was again quizzed about end of year list changes during post game presser. This time he rightly replied that any decisions regarding list would be made post season.
His demeanor has definitely changed and I wouldn't be surprised if he has been assured his job. End result: his bizarre head games played out in the media slow :P
I agree IOT.
One problem with tanking is you can fool yourself in to believing you're much better than you currently are displaying.
Not sure if already mentioned, I noticed Mick was again quizzed about end of year list changes during post game presser. This time he rightly replied that any decisions regarding list would be made post season.
His demeanor has definitely changed and I wouldn't be surprised if he has been assured his job. End result: his bizarre head games played out in the media slow :P
I was actually surprised at the lack of "testiness" at the press conference.
Thought he'd be a bit more worked up than that.
Yeah it was as though "The Judge" has spoken to him about being more, shall we say, club focussed?
He's made repeated references to being beaten by teams with classier players - it seems obvious that he's going to target some real talent in the next trade period.
I was also surprised at his calmness - maybe it was his flu, or cold or whatever it was.
One problem with tanking is you can fool yourself in to believing you're much better than you currently are displaying.
Or that with the influx of additional "talent" you will suddenly develop a winning culture.
Robbo gets 2 for punching the head
Beams gets 0 for punching the body
Robbo gets 2 for punching the head
Beams gets 0 for punching the body
Joke.
I'm surprised Rowe didn't get a spell for shoving Cloke when he out marked him in the first.
Would Jacobs have been the same player if he'd stayed at Carlton ;)
Garry Lyon rubbing it in even further on Footy Classified a few moments ago... "I wonder how Carlton supporters would be feeling" he said when referring to Jacobs performance over the weekend .
Robbo gets 2 for punching the head
Beams gets 0 for punching the body
Joke.
I'm surprised Rowe didn't get a spell for shoving Cloke when he out marked him in the first.
i agree. I can understand Robbo getting done but would you consider his punch "forceful" ? He got him flush, no question but the force barely made the guys head spin?? Bad record did Robbo in more than the act itself.
Beams swung hard but Curnow didnt even flinch? So b/c Curnow has rock hard guts does that mean the intent doesnt matter?
Gerrad Whately even suggested Robbo should have got 3 'cos the kid he punched had an iron Jaw !!!
Get F@@kED.
Robbo gets 2 for punching the head
Beams gets 0 for punching the body
Joke.
I'm surprised Rowe didn't get a spell for shoving Cloke when he out marked him in the first.
i agree. I can understand Robbo getting done but would you consider his punch "forceful" ? He got him flush, no question but the force barely made the guys head spin?? Bad record did Robbo in more than the act itself.
Beams swung hard but Curnow didnt even flinch? So b/c Curnow has rock hard guts does that mean the intent doesnt matter?
Gerrad Whately even suggested Robbo should have got 3 'cos the kid he punched had an iron Jaw !!!
Get F@@kED.
Agree BigBlue - it was Robbo's record that did him. The actual offense was very soft. I love Robbo - if he would only use his head for thinking rather than as a wrecking ball, he'd be my choice for next captain.
You really have to wonder if the AFL has a complete anti Carlton bias, in all areas. In a moment of what can only be described as self flagellation, I was re reading recently about the salary cap scandal. At the time, CEO Wayne Jackson was quite adamant that we got off lightly, and if he had his way, we would've got done a lot worse.
Thanks, pe$is brain.
Robbo gets 2 for punching the head
Beams gets 0 for punching the body
Joke.
I'm surprised Rowe didn't get a spell for shoving Cloke when he out marked him in the first.
i agree. I can understand Robbo getting done but would you consider his punch "forceful" ? He got him flush, no question but the force barely made the guys head spin?? Bad record did Robbo in more than the act itself.
Beams swung hard but Curnow didnt even flinch? So b/c Curnow has rock hard guts does that mean the intent doesnt matter?
Gerrad Whately even suggested Robbo should have got 3 'cos the kid he punched had an iron Jaw !!!
Get F@@kED.
Agree BigBlue - it was Robbo's record that did him. The actual offense was very soft. I love Robbo - if he would only use his head for thinking rather than as a wrecking ball, he'd be my choice for next captain.
You really have to wonder if the AFL has a complete anti Carlton bias, in all areas. In a moment of what can only be described as self flagellation, I was re reading recently about the salary cap scandal. At the time, CEO Wayne Jackson was quite adamant that we got off lightly, and if he had his way, we would've got done a lot worse.
Thanks, pe$is brain.
Football requires strong on field and off field people
In the past Carlton Presidents would play hard with the media and and against the football administrators.
Carlton is in a different position because of our past success and I suspect the AFL community in general love digging Carlton at the moment when we are at our weakest position in 150 years.
And yes folks....it all comes back to the Carlton Board..... ;D ;D
@MF
Yep, it's hyena/vulture behaviour, squabbling over a perceived carcass - nothing too noble or honourable there. Pfft.
This club has been the same old same old for the last 10 years or so. I cannot see anyway forward for us. Each new coach comes in and says we need talent and class but what the fark has the recruiting guys been doing. It does not seem t get any better.
We have some good players and then we speak about guys like Rowe and Casbolt like they will turn into supr stars and carry the club forward. Are we kidding ourselves?
Every other club seems to get the kids up and running and playing good football or is it that other clubs are picking better than us??
That's my 2 cents worth. >:(