I thought it might be a worthwhile exercise to keep track of our offseason moves in terms of the impact they are having on our actual line up and structures. I've picked my best 22 from this past season at the top, then listed the rest of our players in terms of the areas they provide depth in. Where possible, I have tried to rank those depth players in terms of where they sit on the overall pecking order for those positions.
At the end of trade week, we should be able to get a fairly good indication of the areas we need to address via the draft just by looking at the lineups and depth charts.
B: Simpson Jamieson McInnes
HB: Tuohy Henderson Walker
C: Scotland Judd Gibbs
HF: Robinson Waite Yarran
F: Betts Casboult Garlett
R Kreuzer Murphy McLean
INT: Warnock Carrazzo Armfield Bell
MIDFIELD DEPTH:
Curnow
Lucas
Ellard
Graham
Cachia
Buckley
O'Keefe
Joseph
Dale
FORWARD DEPTH:
Menzel
Rowe
Mitchell
Collins
DEFENSE DEPTH:
White
Watson
Bootsma
Duigan
Laidler
Davies
Temay
McCarthy
RUCK DEPTH:
Hampson
*******************
Factoring in the offseason moves that have currently taken place (or should soon take place), we have the following IN's and OUT's:
IN: Dale Thomas, Sam Docherty*
OUT: Hampson, Betts, Davies, Collins, Joseph, McCarthy, Mitchell, Dale, O'Keefe
So our current lineup and depth chart for 2014 would look something like this:
B: Simpson Jamieson Scotland
HB: Tuohy Henderson Docherty
C: Walker Judd Gibbs
HF: Robinson Waite Yarran
F: Menzel Casboult Garlett
R Kreuzer Murphy Thomas
INT: Warnock Carrazzo McLean McInnes
MIDFIELD DEPTH:
Armfield
Bell
Curnow
Lucas
Ellard
Graham
Cachia
Buckley
FORWARD DEPTH:
Rowe
DEFENSE DEPTH:
White
Watson
Bootsma
Duigan
Laidler
Temay
RUCK DEPTH:
****************************
Which leaves us with 37 list spaces full out of a possible 44 (including rookies) and 7 spots left to fill for 2014 either via more trades or the national draft.
Looking at that chart, we appear to be severely lacking in ruck and forward depth, though obviously there are players capable of filling in at those positions who are currently listed in other areas. Even with Rowe and Casboult capable of supporting in the ruck, however, I find it hard to believe that we won't take a pure project ruckman with at least one of our draft selections at either the ND or Rookie Draft.
We are also seriously lacking in forward options that don't involve swapping people from defence. There aren't too many different structures we can try so I would suggest we would look at selecting players who know where the goals are and are capable of playing a role in the forward line. Whether they are primarily midfielders or not, I would imagine that they will be required to play significant time up forward.
Bringing in Thomas and Docherty effectively cost Armfield and Bell their positions in the best 22, which pushed them down into the Midfield Depth category and improved us considerably there. If we get hit by injury or form drops in the midfield, you could do a lot worse than bring in guys like Armfield, Bell, Curnow, Lucas, Ellard, Graham and Cachia. All of those guys have performed well at AFL level and shown they can compete.
Even though Mick is on record saying that he wanted to improve our midfield depth, I think he has done that considerably by bringing in Thomas and Docherty (who will play half back, but releases Walker onto a wing and into the midfield).
To me, that suggests that pure midfielders may not be our priority come draft day at all. We may select midfielders, but they will be midfielders capable of playing forward and will likely involve several taller types as we have certainly got quite a few of those types on our current OUT's list.
What do you guys think? Have a go yourselves, I'm quite a visual person so it helped to get it all laid out in lineups and lists for me.
I don't like casboult at FF
Also, Scotland hasn't confirmed for 2014
I don't like casboult at FF
Also, Scotland hasn't confirmed for 2014
Scotland also hasn't confirmed that he won't be there in 2014 either, so until he does, I'll leave him on the list. Likewise with Laidler, who may not be with us next season.
Like I said, have a go at the exercise yourself. Pick your best 22, rank the depth players, then see how the offseason moves effect those structures.
I plan on editing mine as we make any other moves or decisions.
Don't forget there still is an opportunity for Mitch Thorp, and a few real good mid types to draft. I was hoping we would snag another established mid like Savage. Just have to wait to see who else will join our current squad. It would have been nice if Betts had a contract and we had a trade from the Crows. Betts cost us in the end. I hope he never forgets it either.
Very small backline lacking a genuine 3rd tall defender....Docherty is backpocket size..McInnes struggles vs bigger opponents .
Same old same old.....no KP backup if either Jamo or Henderson go down and not much down the other end either...Thomas and Docherty give us some more run and better kicking ability.
Draft needs:...KP defender with muscle, KP forward, a couple of bigger mids( all ours our small to mid sized except Bell).....Thorp is a player who would add some flexibility as he can play forward or up the ground.
Probably need to rookie a ruckman as backup or get a state league ruckman......
We dont need Daniel Cross either ...too slow.....and another poor kick to add to several poor kicking players still on the list.......
We will probably once again rely on the Rookie draft to solve our deficiencies.
We will probably once again rely on the Rookie draft to solve our deficiencies.
More likely another drug scandal!
B: Simpson Jamison McInnes
HB: Tuohy Watson Docherty
C: Judd Walker Yarran
HF: Gibbs Henderson McLean
FF: Menzel Waite Garlett
R Kruezer Thomas Murphy
INT Warnock Carrazzo Armfield Robinson
Scotland misses out for mine, if he does play on next year its to be in a development role mentoring Docherty, Graham, Cachia, Bell and Lucas
Casboult out, Watson in to step up and take CHB for his own next year, Hendo forward which is win win.
Walker to play in the guts week in, week out.
Two negative players each week in Carrazzo for the bigger mids like Pendles, Swan, Jobe, JPK types, and Army for the likes of K. Jack, Ablett, Rioli, L Thomas. So Army plays forward/back/mid at Different stages.
Thorp is one to consider with our pick 31 or 32 whichever it may be. If we can draft Rowe with pick 44? we can make a strong case for Thorp with our second rounder, eventhough he has played in a crap league this year he won em a flag on his merry lonesome, worth the risk.
Shaun McKernan as depth? Back-up Ruck/Fwd.
Lucas, Bell, Graham, Cachia, Curnow, Scotland, Buckley, Ellard and draftees as mid depth
As it stands Cas and Rowe are our only ruck/fwd back up which is extremely alarming in my eyes, should get another project from the state leagues. Could do much worse than McKernan and Thorp to replace Paddy Mac and Mitchell. Rookie Mitchell i reckon.
Duigan, Bootsma, Temay, White, possibly Laidler as well.
So, 7 spots to fill and i'm going to have a crack at it.
National Draft
#13 Marcus Bontempelli
#33 Mitch Thorp
#51 Dayle Garlett
#69 Trent Dumont
3 spots to fill. I'd like to rookie Luke Mitchell again , but i just haven't seen enough of him in the NB's.
Shaun McKernan to take 1 rookie spot, , i'd like a state league/mature aged midfielder, 18 to 23 years of age, and i'd like another KPP/swingman like Cam Delaney, Joel Tippet, Matthew Westhoff or something similar.
Be gentle people. :D
I like the idea of one ruck and the relief such as Casboult. I also like, and prefer, a spine of Jamison FB, Watson, who does ok each time he plays, at CHB, Henderson CHF and Waite FF. That means though we have to play the 2 rucks as well, who can slow up our mobility.
Maybe the other thing we can do is move Waite to the wing, as Richmond did with Richo late in his career, and play Casboult rather than a 2nd ruckman. Waite would play there well and it might just improve our midfield a bit too.
I like the idea of one ruck and the relief such as Casboult. I also like, and prefer, a spine of Jamison FB, Watson, who does ok each time he plays, at CHB, Henderson CHF and Waite FF. That means though we have to play the 2 rucks as well, who can slow up our mobility.
Maybe the other thing we can do is move Waite to the wing, as Richmond did with Richo late in his career, and play Casboult rather than a 2nd ruckman. Waite would play there well and it might just improve our midfield a bit too.
I like the idea of one ruck too, which is why Jesse White partnered with Kruezer would have been ideal. I prefer Warnock in over Casboult though, unless by some miracle he learns how to kick this off season. Rowe just runs out of puff too quick. Warnock trumps him too. Increasing Waites workload= bad idea. Already made of Glass and it robs us of some serious scoring power.
B: Simpson Jamison McInnes
HB: Tuohy Watson Docherty
C: Judd Walker Yarran
HF: Gibbs Henderson McLean
FF: Menzel Waite Garlett
R Kruezer Thomas Murphy
INT Warnock Carrazzo Armfield Robinson
Scotland misses out for mine, if he does play on next year its to be in a development role mentoring Docherty, Graham, Cachia, Bell and Lucas
Casboult out, Watson in to step up and take CHB for his own next year, Hendo forward which is win win.
Walker to play in the guts week in, week out.
Two negative players each week in Carrazzo for the bigger mids like Pendles, Swan, Jobe, JPK types, and Army for the likes of K. Jack, Ablett, Rioli, L Thomas. So Army plays forward/back/mid at Different stages.
Thorp is one to consider with our pick 31 or 32 whichever it may be. If we can draft Rowe with pick 44? we can make a strong case for Thorp with our second rounder, eventhough he has played in a crap league this year he won em a flag on his merry lonesome, worth the risk.
Shaun McKernan as depth? Back-up Ruck/Fwd.
Lucas, Bell, Graham, Cachia, Curnow, Scotland, Buckley, Ellard and draftees as mid depth
As it stands Cas and Rowe are our only ruck/fwd back up which is extremely alarming in my eyes, should get another project from the state leagues. Could do much worse than McKernan and Thorp to replace Paddy Mac and Mitchell. Rookie Mitchell i reckon.
Duigan, Bootsma, Temay, White, possibly Laidler as well.
So, 7 spots to fill and i'm going to have a crack at it.
National Draft
#13 Marcus Bontempelli
#33 Mitch Thorp
#51 Dayle Garlett
#69 Trent Dumont
3 spots to fill. I'd like to rookie Luke Mitchell again , but i just haven't seen enough of him in the NB's.
Shaun McKernan to take 1 rookie spot, , i'd like a state league or mature aged ruckman, 18 to 21 years of age, and i'd like another KPP/swingman like Cam Delaney, Joel Tippet, Matthew Westhoff or something similar.
Be gentle people. :D
Marcus Bontempelli, pretty sure the pies will take him with 6. Have heard he reason they have looked to upgrade their pick is all about him.
My Round 1 team, 2014. (barring injury)
B: Tuohy Watson McInnes
HB: Docherty Jamison Simpson
C: Thomas Judd Walker
HF: Robinson Waite Yarran
F: Kreuzer Henderson Garlett
Foll: Warnock Murphy Gibbs
INT: Carrazzo McLean Scotland
Sub: Menzel
MIDFIELD DEPTH: (in order)
Bell
Curnow
Graham
Lucas
(pick #13)
Cachia
Ellard
Ciaran Byrne (rookie)
FORWARD DEPTH:
(pick #33 ?) - state leaguer, possibly Thorp but Bris will have pick #7, #23 (Polec), #28 (Yeo), #29 and #32 (Docherty) before our second rounder. I think they'll pick up Thorp before we get a chance.
Duigan
Armfield
Mitchell (rookie)
Buckley
DEFENSE DEPTH:
Bootsma
(rookie pick ?)
White
Temay
RUCK DEPTH:
Rowe
Casboult
(rookie pick ?)
Still a few places on the list but I'll have a better idea after the draft period.
My Round 1 team, 2014. (barring injury)
B: Tuohy Watson McInnes
HB: Docherty Jamison Simpson
C: Thomas Judd Walker
HF: Robinson Waite Yarran
F: Kreuzer Henderson Garlett
Foll: Warnock Murphy Gibbs
INT: Carrazzo McLean Scotland
Sub: Menzel
MIDFIELD DEPTH: (in order)
Bell
Curnow
Graham
Lucas
(pick #13)
Cachia
Ellard
Ciaran Byrne (rookie)
FORWARD DEPTH:
(pick #33 ?) - state leaguer, possibly Thorp but Bris will have pick #7, #23 (Polec), #28 (Yeo), #29 and #32 (Docherty) before our second rounder. I think they'll pick up Thorp before we get a chance.
Duigan
Armfield
Mitchell (rookie)
Buckley
DEFENSE DEPTH:
Bootsma
(rookie pick ?)
White
Temay
RUCK DEPTH:
Rowe
Casboult
(rookie pick ?)
Still a few places on the list but I'll have a better idea after the draft period.
Nice one, so you think we'll definitely go a midfielder with our first round pick? I can see us going for the red nut if he's available, personally, though I think the midfielders around at that pick will be better players.
Do you also consider Casboult and Rowe to be more rucks than forwards? That's interesting. I'd certainly consider them both to be key position forwards who can ruck in relief of a legitimate ruckman.
Our lists are actually quite different, though I can certainly see where you are coming from.
I put Rowe and Casboult in as ruck depth because I think if Mick decides he wants to play a genuine ruck and a full forward/backup ruck, one of those two will play that role. If he stays with the two genuine rucks then I don't think they'll get much game time if Hendo moves forward or we get a ready made KPF in the draft. I've already conceded that Collingwood will pick up a mid with their first 1st rounder and McCarthy with their second first rounder, but just guessing.
Love to participate, but assuming Docherty and ????? are a part of our club is just too much assumption.
Love to participate, but assuming Docherty and ????? are a part of our club is just too much assumption.
I'm sure you could give it a crack mate ;)
I like the idea of one ruck and the relief such as Casboult. I also like, and prefer, a spine of Jamison FB, Watson, who does ok each time he plays, at CHB, Henderson CHF and Waite FF. That means though we have to play the 2 rucks as well, who can slow up our mobility.
Maybe the other thing we can do is move Waite to the wing, as Richmond did with Richo late in his career, and play Casboult rather than a 2nd ruckman. Waite would play there well and it might just improve our midfield a bit too.
I like the idea of one ruck too, which is why Jesse White partnered with Kruezer would have been ideal. I prefer Warnock in over Casboult though, unless by some miracle he learns how to kick this off season. Rowe just runs out of puff too quick. Warnock trumps him too. Increasing Waites workload= bad idea. Already made of Glass and it robs us of some serious scoring power.
Depends what you want to do. To me it's either two KPF's or two rucks. Two of each just slows us up. I always prefer two KPFs as you have to score to win. more important than a few extra tapouts. Warnock and Kreuzer are useless as forwards.
Running around on the wing would be less physical than the bash and crash of being a KPF for Waite. Only do that though if we decide to play if we decided to play both Henderson and Casboult forward, the latter rucking, with Watson in defence.
As for Rowe, after another year after cancer treatment his tank may improve quite a bit.
Two permanent key forwards and a resting ruck is the best forward structure. Playing full forward on the best defender and then pinch-hitting in the ruck (while your #1 ruck sits on the bench or rests at full forward) destroys your forward line imo. Having the 3 tall set up stretches the defence and makes their third tall defender accountable and also gives you the opportunity to have a genuine ruck man at stoppages for the entire game.
Most teams are changing to this strategy with Pies recruiting White, Freo - Gumbleton, Crows - Podsiadly, Tiges - Hampson and GWS - Mumford.
Two permanent key forwards and a resting ruck is the best forward structure. Playing full forward on the best defender and then pinch-hitting in the ruck (while your #1 ruck sits on the bench or rests at full forward) destroys your forward line imo. Having the 3 tall set up stretches the defence and makes their third tall defender accountable and also gives you the opportunity to have a genuine ruck man at stoppages for the entire game.
Most teams are changing to this strategy with Pies recruiting White, Freo - Gumbleton, Crows - Podsiadly, Tiges - Hampson and GWS - Mumford.
Yep, great post, couldn't agree more.
Playing one tall and a resting ruckman as your key forwards just makes it too easy for opposition to set up and defend against you. The third tall defender that every team has (in order to combat a resting ruckman) can just double team your one true key forward if that is all you have on the field. Hell, even our rucks would kick more goals if they were allowed to rest in a pocket rather than being expected to take one of the opposition's best defenders every week. Our rucks would probably get injured less also.
We need to get smarter and modernise our tactics. I know we initially tried the resting ruck at full forward thing to try and make the most of the substitute system, but it simply doesn't work.
Love to participate, but assuming Docherty and ????? are a part of our club is just too much assumption.
I'm sure you could give it a crack mate ;)
Okay.... I'll give it a lash based on what we actually have at this minute.
B. Walker. Watson. White.
HB. Tuohy. Jamison. Simpson.
C. Gibbs. Judd. Thomas.
HF. Menzel. Henderson. Yarran.
FF. Garlett. Waite. Kreuzer.
R. Warnock. Murphy. McLean.
I. Robinson. Armfield. Curnow. Bell.
E. Casboult. Graham. Carrazzo.
Love to participate, but assuming Docherty and ????? are a part of our club is just too much assumption.
I'm sure you could give it a crack mate ;)
Okay.... I'll give it a lash based on what we actually have at this minute.
B. Walker. Watson. White.
HB. Tuohy. Jamison. Simpson.
C. Gibbs. Judd. Armfield.
HF. Menzel. Henderson. Yarran.
FF. Garlett. Waite. Kreuzer.
R. Warnock. Murphy. McLean.
I. Robinson. Graham. Curnow. Bell.
E. Casboult. Duigan. Carrazzo.
Daisy not good enuff?
Love to participate, but assuming Docherty and ????? are a part of our club is just too much assumption.
I'm sure you could give it a crack mate ;)
Okay.... I'll give it a lash based on what we actually have at this minute.
B. Walker. Watson. White.
HB. Tuohy. Jamison. Simpson.
C. Gibbs. Judd. Armfield.
HF. Menzel. Henderson. Yarran.
FF. Garlett. Waite. Kreuzer.
R. Warnock. Murphy. McLean.
I. Robinson. Graham. Curnow. Bell.
E. Casboult. Duigan. Carrazzo.
Glad to see you included Simon White in the team Baggers...had a terrible injury scare and could have ended up paralysed last season, an honest warrior but the type that Mick could develop into a Nick Maxwell and I do like the way he tackles...
Elwood you haven't made space for Daisy there ??
Elwood you haven't made space for Daisy there ??
Elwood was just quoting Baggers' team.
And I can understand not including Docherty yet, but Thomas? It's not assumption to include him in the side, he's already a Carlton listed player and I daresay we're not paying him almost $700k a year in order to run him around with the seconds.
Love to participate, but assuming Docherty and ????? are a part of our club is just too much assumption.
I'm sure you could give it a crack mate ;)
Okay.... I'll give it a lash based on what we actually have at this minute.
B. Walker. Watson. White.
HB. Tuohy. Jamison. Simpson.
C. Gibbs. Judd. Thomas.
HF. Menzel. Henderson. Yarran.
FF. Garlett. Waite. Kreuzer.
R. Warnock. Murphy. McLean.
I. Robinson. Armfield. Curnow. Bell.
E. Casboult. Graham. Carrazzo.
Fixed. Naughty and silly Baggers leaving out Thomas :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :) Not a conscious decision, just a dumb error.
To push for a flag, you need 5 or 6 players who can make a claim at AA selection.
The days of this for Judd have gone, same too Scotto and Waite. Possibly Carrots too.
Thomas, Muprhy, Henderson, Jamison (though has waned recently), Yarran, Gibbs, maybe special K are all posibilities but all have big question marks.
Doesn't seem enough quality and our foot soldiers all have major deficiencies. Will be an interesting year.
To push for a flag, you need 5 or 6 players who can make a claim at AA selection.
The days of this for Judd have gone, same too Scotto and Waite. Possibly Carrots too.
Thomas, Muprhy, Henderson, Jamison (though has waned recently), Yarran, Gibbs, maybe special K are all posibilities but all have big question marks.
Doesn't seem enough quality and our foot soldiers all have major deficiencies. Will be an interesting year.
Agree with you there, 2014 is a very important year for our development. We can't blame the new coach/new game plan thing anymore, Everyone on the list for 2014 should be absolutely on board with all of that, and Mick should have a much better understanding of how to get the best out of the playing group. You only get that understanding through experience, but he'll have had plenty of time by then.
We could either jump up like Freo did under Ross Lyon, or we could slip even further down the ladder.
Make or break year for everyone at the club next year, really.
No excuses should be tolerated at any level.
To push for a flag, you need 5 or 6 players who can make a claim at AA selection.
The days of this for Judd have gone, same too Scotto and Waite. Possibly Carrots too.
Thomas, Muprhy, Henderson, Jamison (though has waned recently), Yarran, Gibbs, maybe special K are all posibilities but all have big question marks.
Doesn't seem enough quality and our foot soldiers all have major deficiencies. Will be an interesting year.
Agree with you there, 2014 is a very important year for our development. We can't blame the new coach/new game plan thing anymore, Everyone on the list for 2014 should be absolutely on board with all of that, and Mick should have a much better understanding of how to get the best out of the playing group. You only get that understanding through experience, but he'll have had plenty of time by then.
We could either jump up like Freo did under Ross Lyon, or we could slip even further down the ladder.
Make or break year for everyone at the club next year, really.
No excuses should be tolerated at any level.
Agree, and it'll be down to pretty much the same list we fielded this year. Can't say I'm feeling optimistic but if things go pear shaped at least it will be a good reason to clear out the club's management and admin. from board down to bootstudders.
Agree, and it'll be down to pretty much the same list we fielded this year. Can't say I'm feeling optimistic but if things go pear shaped at least it will be a good reason to clear out the club's management and admin. from board down to bootstudders.
Like there are not enough reasons already !!!
The bigger question IMO is who is going to push them out? We all talk about it, but who or how many are prepared to actually stand up to the president and the board and cause the change?
And an even bigger question is, who will/can come in and replace them?
Not having a go at you Cookie, but all out talk on here (including mine) is cheap if we don't back it up with some kind of action !!
Reminds me of the quote - "all it takes for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing." !!
@Amers
All we can do on here Amers is talk - this is a talking forum after all. In answer to your question the short answer is I don't know, but there must be some high profile Bluebaggers who would be just as p1ssed off as we are with the club and motivated to put together a ticket?
I know I'm not offering a solution, just highlighting the problems, but I would think the first thing that needs to be done is to find the credible person a good management team could form around and who would become the new president. Kochie was a good choice for the Power and, as much as I hate to say this, Eddie has transformed the Pies from the train wreck they were when he took over.
PS.
Unfortunately history shows us that these kind of people only seem to emerge when a club has hit or is near rock bottom. If MM doesn't really work some magic on field we would certainly be heading that way next year.
Thomas, Muprhy, Henderson, Jamison (though has waned recently), Yarran, Gibbs, maybe special K are all posibilities but all have big question marks.
Most question marks are in a supporter's head - and to a lesser extent a player's head.....
Jeffy Garlett has the potential to be an AA small forward.
Interesting that Walker and Simpson are two names not mentioned.
Warnock could be (if he could stay on the field long enough) and Waite could be an AA forward Same issue.
I dont think we are badly off as many others.
Carrazzo is another who was sorely missed, and write off Juddy at your peril. could Mclean be an AA mid? Perhaps, Cameron Ling did it, so could Mclean.
Ok, trade week is done! Time to revisit this list to factor in all of the moves we have made.
2013 Line Up (Based on where people played, not what I feel is the best possible line up).
B: Simpson Jamieson McInnes
HB: Tuohy Henderson Walker
C: Scotland Judd Gibbs
HF: Robinson Waite Yarran
F: Betts Casboult Garlett
R Kreuzer Murphy McLean
INT: Warnock Carrazzo Armfield Bell
MIDFIELD DEPTH:
Curnow
Lucas
Ellard
Graham
Cachia
Buckley
O'Keefe
Joseph
Dale
FORWARD DEPTH:
Menzel
Rowe
Mitchell
Collins
DEFENSE DEPTH:
White
Watson
Bootsma
Duigan
Laidler
Davies
Temay
McCarthy
RUCK DEPTH:
Hampson
*******************
Factoring in the offseason moves that have currently taken place (or should soon take place), we have the following IN's and OUT's:
IN: Dale Thomas, Sam Docherty, Andrejs Everitt
OUT: Hampson, Betts, Davies, Collins, Joseph, McCarthy, Mitchell, Dale, O'Keefe
So our current lineup and depth chart for 2014 would look something like this:
B: Simpson Jamieson Everitt
HB: Tuohy Watson Docherty
C: Yarran Judd Gibbs
HF: Robinson Henderson Walker
F: Menzel Waite Garlett
R Kreuzer Murphy Thomas
INT: Warnock Carrazzo McLean Scotland
MIDFIELD DEPTH:
Armfield
Bell
Curnow
Lucas
Ellard
Graham
Cachia
Buckley
FORWARD DEPTH:
Rowe
DEFENSE DEPTH:
McInnes
White
Bootsma
Duigan
Laidler
Temay
RUCK DEPTH:
Casboult
***************
Overall, I think we had an incredibly successful trade period. We brought in Thomas, who slots straight into our midfield with A-Grade talent and pushes McLean down to an interchange rotation and results in Armfield, who is a quality foot soldier, moving down into the depth category.
Bringing in Docherty, who should slot straight into our best 22, means we can move Walker forward which enormously enhances our firepower up there.
Everitt is a big upgrade over any of our other options for that third tall defender role, so pushes McInnes down into the depth category (where he belongs at this stage, honestly, and where he would be at most other top clubs) and also moves Scotland down to an interchange rotation which probably suits someone getting to his stage of his career. When he comes on, he can have an immediate impact.
Upgrading McInnes to Everitt also needs to be evaluated in terms of the support that gives to our current key position defenders. My view is that he is a significant enough upgrade that it allows a guy like Watson to come in and hold down CHB, knowing that he is going to have quality tall support down there to offset Henderson moving to CHF.
The move of Henderson to CHF is an integral one if we are going to seriously challenge in 2014, in my opinion.
The ideal interchange of Warnock, Carrazzo (who can be given a job at any stage), McLean (who can come on and still be consistently high quality) and Scotland is about as strong as we've had there for a long, long time. Each player is different and brings a variety of skills to the table which can be utilised both for rotations and strategically.
Between 2013 and 2014, our starting midfield rotation went from Murphy, Judd, McLean, Gibbs, Robinson, Carrazzo, Armfield, Bell to Murphy, Thomas, Judd, Gibbs, McLean, Robinson, Carrazzo, Scotland and further flexibility to rotate guys like Walker, Yarran and Docherty through there for more impact style play. That is a massive, massive upgrade. We not only have far more options, but honest foot soldiers like Armfield, Bell and Curnow are no longer in our best 22. That is a big, big upgrade for us as it dramatically reduces the disparity between the best and worst players we have running around in any given match.
We are still short on forward depth, so I would expect us to try and address this via the draft. Any midfielders that we draft will need to be proven goal kickers as that is where they will have the most opportunity during the early stages of their career. Guys like Dayle Garlett and Christian Salem jump to mind as obvious selections there. Mitch Thorp, Ben Brown, Jonathan Marsh and Darcy Hourigan would be excellent acquisitions there to bolster tall forward stocks. Ideally we could take one of these players with our first round selection and another in the second round (now pick 39). The tall forward(s) that we do draft should be taken with an eye towards replacing Waite, who is obviously getting on in years and has injury concerns.
I would definitely expect us to take another ruckman later in the draft, and even Darren Jolly could be in the mix if we want someone who is instantly capable of stepping into the lineup as an upgrade over Warnock.
We currently have a list of 38 players out of a possible 44 (across both main and rookie lists), with three of those players having to be rookies. We also need to find room to upgrade both Ed Curnow and Tom Bell this season, so I think we may very well delist additional players at this point in order to take at least 3 live selections into the National Draft (picks 13, 39 and 51). Right now we have 3 senior list spots available, and realistically need 5.
I can see Laidler being delisted at this stage, along with Davey Ellard (who is very unlucky) unless Heath Scotland is able to be moved to the Rookie List as a Nominated Rookie.
Overall, I see it as a big improvement for us and I'm actually quite excited looking forward to 2014.
Thoughts?
@Nath
I just posted my thoughts in the trade period, Success or Failure thread. Basically agree with most of what you have said, but i really like Army in the squad for his pace, tenacity, tackling and ability to play on the smaller dangerous quick mid's and Forward's like K. Jack, Ballantyne, Rioli, L Thomas etc Or even as a Defensive forward.
Walker to play more mid to add size to the on-ball brigade without giving up leg speed. Bell is good in theory and has 5 kgs on 1AW but he is tad slow in leg speed and decision making. Bell would be good on bigger, slower mids in lock down roles. Guys like Barlow, Mundy, J Watson and JPK.
Interested in your ( and everyone's for that matter) opinion on Mitch Thorp. Is it worth our while spending #39 on him if he's still there? Will he be depth or will he be vying for that 3rd marking forward spot with Menzel, Walker, White, Everitt (maybe). Could he be of great use to us if he is at his best? I remember back when he was drafted in 2006 ahead of J Selwood, B Reid, A Everitt at #11 :P James Frawley, J Reiwoldt and Nathan Brown and he was so highly rated, but by all reports was a bit of a d1ck. Could he play 2nd tall if we are struck with injury?
@Nath
Interested in your ( and everyone's for that matter) opinion on Mitch Thorp. Is it worth our while spending #39 on him if he's still there? Will he be depth or will he be vying for that 3rd marking forward spot with Menzel, Walker, White, Everitt (maybe). Could he be of great use to us if he is at his best? I remember back when he was drafted in 2006 ahead of J Selwood, B Reid, A Everitt at #11 :P James Frawley, J Reiwoldt and Nathan Brown and he was so highly rated, but by all reports was a bit of a d1ck. Could he play 2nd tall if we are struck with injury?
I reckon we got in some really good "established" players via the trade period and FA. I looked at the highlights package for Thorpe, not overly impressed or unimpressed TBH. I would like to see if the new ex-Geelong recruiter we got (Williams??) can influence some good picks in the national draft. We did well during the trade period, its now time to right some past wrongs and get a few ripping kids in.
@ Nath ,
I was wondering how long before someone applied the US phrase "depth chart" to our game.
Anyway, like what you've got there but given MMs love of multi men (versitile player)may have to add another group to your mids, forwards and defence.
I think MM loves these guys.
@Nath
I just posted my thoughts in the trade period, Success or Failure thread. Basically agree with most of what you have said, but i really like Army in the squad for his pace, tenacity, tackling and ability to play on the smaller dangerous quick mid's and Forward's like K. Jack, Ballantyne, Rioli, L Thomas etc Or even as a Defensive forward.
Walker to play more mid to add size to the on-ball brigade without giving up leg speed. Bell is good in theory and has 5 kgs on 1AW but he is tad slow in leg speed and decision making. Bell would be good on bigger, slower mids in lock down roles. Guys like Barlow, Mundy, J Watson and JPK.
Interested in your ( and everyone's for that matter) opinion on Mitch Thorp. Is it worth our while spending #39 on him if he's still there? Will he be depth or will he be vying for that 3rd marking forward spot with Menzel, Walker, White, Everitt (maybe). Could he be of great use to us if he is at his best? I remember back when he was drafted in 2006 ahead of J Selwood, B Reid, A Everitt at #11 :P James Frawley, J Reiwoldt and Nathan Brown and he was so highly rated, but by all reports was a bit of a d1ck. Could he play 2nd tall if we are struck with injury?
Personally, I wouldn't look at Thorpe unless he was available at our first or second rookie selection, but I think he'll go earlier than that. He was an incredibly talented junior and played for the Tasmania U/18's along with Jack Riewoldt. Thorpe was a far better player at that early stage, but Jack applied himself and Mitch didn't. I think he's worth another shot, however it's a very large jump in standard from where he is now and the AFL. I think he's worth a rookie pick, or late ND at best.
I don't necessary believe this draft is as shallow as people think, there is some talent in the u/18's. There are some very likely types and I'd be fairly confident of grabbing some potentially very good players with our first couple of picks.
I'd only look at mature age picks from the 3rd round onward.
I prefer Hendo down back.
Jamo is not a rock. Hendo can be that rock..... we need that.
For me, Setanta at CHF. :o
I prefer Hendo down back.
Jamo is not a rock. Hendo can be that rock..... we need that.
For me, Setanta at CHF. :o
I dont know. Hendo is good taking intercept marks and running off players but i dont think he is as strong at shutting down an opponent as Jamo is (when his shoulder is not hurting).
They do make a good tandem.
Jamo is a rock. Hendo is one too, both of them cant do it alone though even though they try and sometimes succeed.
I prefer Hendo down back.
Jamo is not a rock. Hendo can be that rock..... we need that.
For me, Setanta at CHF. :o
I dont know. Hendo is good taking intercept marks and running off players but i dont think he is as strong at shutting down an opponent as Jamo is (when his shoulder is not hurting).
They do make a good tandem.
Jamo is a rock. Hendo is one too, both of them cant do it alone though even though they try and sometimes succeed.
Jamo was actually one of only a handful of Carlton players to play every game in 2013, so hopefully the confidence he gained from the lack of injuries he copped last season will set him up nicely for a massive 2014. Easily one of the best full backs in the game when he stays on the park, that's always been his issue.
Hendo is just a superstar and will almost certainly be an All Australian one day. He could do it at either end too, I wish we had three more of him. We would be unstoppable.
For me, Setanta at CHF. :o
;D
Do you want this club to win a flag or not?
For me, Setanta at CHF. :o
yep and Fev at FF, SOS at FB, F@ck lets throw big Nick in the ruck while we're at it.
Jamo, injuries or not, dished up some real garbage this year (and granted some solid stuff too).
We don't need a young J. Brown at CHf, just an Earl Spalding type....
Earl's best year goal kicking wise was 33 in 1995, after that 23 goals 2 years earlier....
Irish, kicked 26 in 2010 from 14 games. Durability the issue (thanks Fev).
Curnow played too well last year to be left out of the top 22
Setanta wouldn't get a game at a top four side...probably not even top 6 or top 8. Our club got rid of him and we're mediocre/middle of the road. When he became available, there was hardly a sh1t fight for his services.
Setanta wouldn't get a game at a top four side...probably not even top 6 or top 8. Our club got rid of him and we're mediocre/middle of the road. When he became available, there was hardly a sh1t fight for his services.
You don't need every guy in a team to be an A grader.
You do need someone who will always compete and seldom gets beaten one on one. A bit of mongrel helps too!
Never said Irish was God's gift but when on the park he was invariably very serviceable (despite never being 'allowed' to settle in one spot).
Rowe or Setanta - I'd take a fit Irish any day of the week.
Here's my best line up for 2014 at the moment.
FB; Everitt, Jamison, Touhy
HB; Docherty, Watson, Simpson
C; Thomas, Gibbs, Yarran
R; Warnock, Murphy, Judd
HF; Menzel, Henderson, Walker
FF; Kreuzer, Waite, Garlett
I/C; McLean, Carrots, Robbo, Lucas
Depth
Scotland, Armfield, Curnow, Bell, Graham, pick 13, Bootsma, Rowe, Casboult, McInnes, White.
IMO we are still short on KPD and IMO moving Hendo back should be a last resort.
I think Judd would be better as a interchange player going forward and coming on for bursts as a impact player,making it harder to tagg him.Curnow must be in the starting 22 as out of all the taggers he would be by far our best I also think we should go in with krooz in the ruck and cas in the side as back up.Neither Krooz or warnock can play forward so they become a liability as far as interchanges go. And maybe play walker in the center as he has pace and breaks lines as well as a bit of grunt compared to most of our other on ballers and can tackle.
Like it or not at least it's my opinion.
B. Tuohy Jamison Everitt
HB. Simpson Watson Docherty
C. Thomas McLean Gibbs
HF. Waite Casboult Menzel
F. Garlett Henderson Walker
R. Kreuzer Curnow Murphy
I. Carrazzo Robinson Judd Yarran