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Re: Best Line Up - 2013 vs 2014

Reply #30 –
Quote
Thomas, Muprhy, Henderson, Jamison (though has waned recently), Yarran, Gibbs, maybe special K are all posibilities but all have big question marks.

Most question marks are in a supporter's head  - and to a lesser extent a player's head.....
Finals, then 4 in a row!

Re: Best Line Up - 2013 vs 2014

Reply #31 –
Jeffy Garlett has the potential to be an AA small forward.

Interesting that Walker and Simpson are two names not mentioned.

Warnock could be (if he could stay on the field long enough) and Waite could be an AA forward Same issue.

I dont think we are badly off as many others.

Carrazzo is another who was sorely missed, and write off Juddy at your peril.  could Mclean be an AA mid?  Perhaps, Cameron Ling did it, so could Mclean.
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: Best Line Up - 2013 vs 2014

Reply #32 –
Ok, trade week is done! Time to revisit this list to factor in all of the moves we have made.

2013 Line Up (Based on where people played, not what I feel is the best possible line up).

B: Simpson Jamieson McInnes
HB: Tuohy Henderson Walker
C: Scotland Judd Gibbs
HF: Robinson Waite Yarran
F: Betts Casboult Garlett
R Kreuzer Murphy McLean
INT: Warnock Carrazzo Armfield Bell

MIDFIELD DEPTH:
Curnow
Lucas
Ellard
Graham
Cachia
Buckley
O'Keefe
Joseph
Dale

FORWARD DEPTH:
Menzel
Rowe
Mitchell
Collins

DEFENSE DEPTH:
White
Watson
Bootsma
Duigan
Laidler
Davies
Temay
McCarthy

RUCK DEPTH:
Hampson

*******************

Factoring in the offseason moves that have currently taken place (or should soon take place), we have the following IN's and OUT's:

IN:  Dale Thomas, Sam Docherty, Andrejs Everitt
OUT:  Hampson, Betts, Davies, Collins, Joseph, McCarthy, Mitchell, Dale, O'Keefe

So our current lineup and depth chart for 2014 would look something like this:

B: Simpson Jamieson Everitt
HB: Tuohy Watson Docherty
C: Yarran Judd Gibbs
HF: Robinson Henderson Walker
F:  Menzel Waite Garlett
R Kreuzer Murphy Thomas
INT: Warnock Carrazzo McLean Scotland

MIDFIELD DEPTH:
Armfield
Bell
Curnow
Lucas
Ellard
Graham
Cachia
Buckley

FORWARD DEPTH:
Rowe

DEFENSE DEPTH:
McInnes
White
Bootsma
Duigan
Laidler
Temay

RUCK DEPTH:

Casboult

***************

Overall, I think we had an incredibly successful trade period. We brought in Thomas, who slots straight into our midfield with A-Grade talent and pushes McLean down to an interchange rotation and results in Armfield, who is a quality foot soldier, moving down into the depth category.

Bringing in Docherty, who should slot straight into our best 22, means we can move Walker forward which enormously enhances our firepower up there.

Everitt is a big upgrade over any of our other options for that third tall defender role, so pushes McInnes down into the depth category (where he belongs at this stage, honestly, and where he would be at most other top clubs) and also moves Scotland down to an interchange rotation which probably suits someone getting to his stage of his career. When he comes on, he can have an immediate impact.

Upgrading McInnes to Everitt also needs to be evaluated in terms of the support that gives to our current key position defenders. My view is that he is a significant enough upgrade that it allows a guy like Watson to come in and hold down CHB, knowing that he is going to have quality tall support down there to offset Henderson moving to CHF.

The move of Henderson to CHF is an integral one if we are going to seriously challenge in 2014, in my opinion.

The ideal interchange of Warnock, Carrazzo (who can be given a job at any stage), McLean (who can come on and still be consistently high quality) and Scotland is about as strong as we've had there for a long, long time. Each player is different and brings a variety of skills to the table which can be utilised both for rotations and strategically.

Between 2013 and 2014, our starting midfield rotation went from Murphy, Judd, McLean, Gibbs, Robinson, Carrazzo, Armfield, Bell to Murphy, Thomas, Judd, Gibbs, McLean, Robinson, Carrazzo, Scotland and further flexibility to rotate guys like Walker, Yarran and Docherty through there for more impact style play. That is a massive, massive upgrade. We not only have far more options, but honest foot soldiers like Armfield, Bell and Curnow are no longer in our best 22. That is a big, big upgrade for us as it dramatically reduces the disparity between the best and worst players we have running around in any given match.

We are still short on forward depth, so I would expect us to try and address this via the draft. Any midfielders that we draft will need to be proven goal kickers as that is where they will have the most opportunity during the early stages of their career. Guys like Dayle Garlett and Christian Salem jump to mind as obvious selections there. Mitch Thorp, Ben Brown, Jonathan Marsh and Darcy Hourigan would be excellent acquisitions there to bolster tall forward stocks. Ideally we could take one of these players with our first round selection and another in the second round (now pick 39). The tall forward(s) that we do draft should be taken with an eye towards replacing Waite, who is obviously getting on in years and has injury concerns.

I would definitely expect us to take another ruckman later in the draft, and even Darren Jolly could be in the mix if we want someone who is instantly capable of stepping into the lineup as an upgrade over Warnock.

We currently have a list of 38 players out of a possible 44 (across both main and rookie lists), with three of those players having to be rookies. We also need to find room to upgrade both Ed Curnow and Tom Bell this season, so I think we may very well delist additional players at this point in order to take at least 3 live selections into the National Draft (picks 13, 39 and 51). Right now we have 3 senior list spots available, and realistically need 5.

I can see Laidler being delisted at this stage, along with Davey Ellard (who is very unlucky) unless Heath Scotland is able to be moved to the Rookie List as a Nominated Rookie.

Overall, I see it as a big improvement for us and I'm actually quite excited looking forward to 2014.

Thoughts?
Just glad I'm old enough to have enjoyed the 1995 Grand Final

Re: Best Line Up - 2013 vs 2014

Reply #33 –
@Nath

I just posted my thoughts in the trade period, Success or Failure thread. Basically agree with most of what you have said, but i really like Army in the squad for his pace, tenacity, tackling and ability to play on the smaller dangerous quick mid's and Forward's like K. Jack, Ballantyne, Rioli, L Thomas etc Or even as a Defensive forward.

Walker to play more mid to add size to the on-ball brigade without giving up leg speed. Bell is good in theory and has 5 kgs on 1AW but he is tad slow in leg speed and decision making. Bell would be good on bigger, slower mids in lock down roles. Guys like Barlow, Mundy, J Watson and JPK.

Interested in your ( and everyone's for that matter) opinion on Mitch Thorp. Is it worth our while spending #39 on him if he's still there? Will he be depth or will he be vying for that 3rd marking forward spot with Menzel, Walker, White, Everitt (maybe). Could he be of great use to us if he is at his best? I remember back when he was drafted in 2006 ahead of J Selwood, B Reid, A Everitt at #11  :P James Frawley, J Reiwoldt and Nathan Brown and he was so highly rated, but by all reports was a bit of a d1ck. Could he play 2nd tall if we are struck with injury?

Re: Best Line Up - 2013 vs 2014

Reply #34 –
Quote from: BlueAvenger on
@Nath
Interested in your ( and everyone's for that matter) opinion on Mitch Thorp. Is it worth our while spending #39 on him if he's still there? Will he be depth or will he be vying for that 3rd marking forward spot with Menzel, Walker, White, Everitt (maybe). Could he be of great use to us if he is at his best? I remember back when he was drafted in 2006 ahead of J Selwood, B Reid, A Everitt at #11  :P James Frawley, J Reiwoldt and Nathan Brown and he was so highly rated, but by all reports was a bit of a d1ck. Could he play 2nd tall if we are struck with injury?
I reckon we got in some really good "established" players via the trade period and FA. I looked at the highlights package for Thorpe, not overly impressed or unimpressed TBH. I would like to see if the new ex-Geelong recruiter we got (Williams??) can influence some good picks in the national draft. We did well during the trade period, its now time to right some past wrongs and get a few ripping kids in.
2017-16th
2018-Wooden Spoon
2019-16th
2020-dare to dream? 11th is better than last I suppose
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time

Re: Best Line Up - 2013 vs 2014

Reply #35 –
@ Nath ,

I was wondering how long before someone applied the US phrase "depth chart" to our game.

Anyway, like what you've got there but given MMs love of multi men (versitile player)may have to add another group to your mids, forwards and defence.

I think MM loves these guys.
You can fool some of the people some of the time.......................................

Re: Best Line Up - 2013 vs 2014

Reply #36 –
Quote from: BlueAvenger on
@Nath

I just posted my thoughts in the trade period, Success or Failure thread. Basically agree with most of what you have said, but i really like Army in the squad for his pace, tenacity, tackling and ability to play on the smaller dangerous quick mid's and Forward's like K. Jack, Ballantyne, Rioli, L Thomas etc Or even as a Defensive forward.

Walker to play more mid to add size to the on-ball brigade without giving up leg speed. Bell is good in theory and has 5 kgs on 1AW but he is tad slow in leg speed and decision making. Bell would be good on bigger, slower mids in lock down roles. Guys like Barlow, Mundy, J Watson and JPK.

Interested in your ( and everyone's for that matter) opinion on Mitch Thorp. Is it worth our while spending #39 on him if he's still there? Will he be depth or will he be vying for that 3rd marking forward spot with Menzel, Walker, White, Everitt (maybe). Could he be of great use to us if he is at his best? I remember back when he was drafted in 2006 ahead of J Selwood, B Reid, A Everitt at #11  :P James Frawley, J Reiwoldt and Nathan Brown and he was so highly rated, but by all reports was a bit of a d1ck. Could he play 2nd tall if we are struck with injury?

Personally, I wouldn't look at Thorpe unless he was available at our first or second rookie selection, but I think he'll go earlier than that. He was an incredibly talented junior and played for the Tasmania U/18's along with Jack Riewoldt. Thorpe was a far better player at that early stage, but Jack applied himself and Mitch didn't. I think he's worth another shot, however it's a very large jump in standard from where he is now and the AFL. I think he's worth a rookie pick, or late ND at best.

I don't necessary believe this draft is as shallow as people think, there is some talent in the u/18's. There are some very likely types and I'd be fairly confident of grabbing some potentially very good players with our first couple of picks.

I'd only look at mature age picks from the 3rd round onward.
Just glad I'm old enough to have enjoyed the 1995 Grand Final

Re: Best Line Up - 2013 vs 2014

Reply #37 –
I prefer Hendo down back.

Jamo is not a rock. Hendo can be that rock..... we need that.

For me, Setanta at CHF.  :o
Finals, then 4 in a row!

Re: Best Line Up - 2013 vs 2014

Reply #38 –
Quote from: flyboy77 on
I prefer Hendo down back.

Jamo is not a rock. Hendo can be that rock..... we need that.

For me, Setanta at CHF.  :o

I dont know.  Hendo is good taking intercept marks and running off players but i dont think he is as strong at shutting down an opponent as Jamo is (when his shoulder is not hurting).

They do make a good tandem.

Jamo is a rock.  Hendo is one too, both of them cant do it alone though even though they try and sometimes succeed. 
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: Best Line Up - 2013 vs 2014

Reply #39 –
Quote from: Thryleon on
Quote from: flyboy77 on
I prefer Hendo down back.

Jamo is not a rock. Hendo can be that rock..... we need that.

For me, Setanta at CHF.  :o

I dont know.  Hendo is good taking intercept marks and running off players but i dont think he is as strong at shutting down an opponent as Jamo is (when his shoulder is not hurting).

They do make a good tandem.

Jamo is a rock.  Hendo is one too, both of them cant do it alone though even though they try and sometimes succeed.

Jamo was actually one of only a handful of Carlton players to play every game in 2013, so hopefully the confidence he gained from the lack of injuries he copped last season will set him up nicely for a massive 2014. Easily one of the best full backs in the game when he stays on the park, that's always been his issue.

Hendo is just a superstar and will almost certainly be an All Australian one day. He could do it at either end too, I wish we had three more of him. We would be unstoppable.
Just glad I'm old enough to have enjoyed the 1995 Grand Final

Re: Best Line Up - 2013 vs 2014

Reply #42 –
Jamo, injuries or not, dished up some real garbage this year (and granted some solid stuff too).

We don't need a young J. Brown at CHf, just an Earl Spalding type....

Earl's best year goal kicking wise was 33 in 1995, after that 23 goals 2 years earlier....

Irish, kicked 26 in 2010 from 14 games. Durability the issue (thanks Fev).
Finals, then 4 in a row!

Re: Best Line Up - 2013 vs 2014

Reply #43 –
Curnow played too well last year to be left out of the top 22

Re: Best Line Up - 2013 vs 2014

Reply #44 –
Setanta wouldn't get a game at a top four side...probably not even top 6 or top 8. Our club got rid of him and we're mediocre/middle of the road. When he became available, there was hardly a sh1t fight for his services.