Carlton Supporters Club

Princes Park => Robert Heatley Stand => Topic started by: chookaradley on May 26, 2014, 07:51:09 pm

Title: What's wrong with Lachie?
Post by: chookaradley on May 26, 2014, 07:51:09 pm
One our most consistent players in 2013. A legitimate swingman who could influence a game at both ends. Looked to be coming into his prime.

His last 4-5 weeks have been worse than poor. He is only getting a handful of touches and having Zero influences on games.

So what's wrong with Lachie, injury?, form?, or just played out of position?
Title: Re: What's wrong with Lachie?
Post by: Dirty Harry on May 26, 2014, 08:02:41 pm
Dont think he's being played out of position. He is a decent forward.

I'd suggest he had 2 ops over the pre season. The last one being close to Feb-March from memory.

He would also be getting the number one backman now.

Probably needs to get more up the ground but fitness is lacking and now has probably lost a bit of confidence.

There was also the rumour that he had broken up with his childhood sweetheart recently.

I reckon he's one good game from turning his whole form around.

Hopefully its this week against his (and Docho's) ex team.
Title: Re: What's wrong with Lachie?
Post by: kruddler on May 26, 2014, 08:09:31 pm
I reckon he's one good game from turning his whole form around.

Hopefully its this week against his (and Docho's) ex team.

Give him one more week of mediocrity.

Let him turn it on against a team that we will need it, Cats or Hawks. ;)
Title: Re: What's wrong with Lachie?
Post by: Lods on May 26, 2014, 08:25:49 pm
Have a look at his 2011 season. ;)
Similar issues this pre-season
He'll be fine when the whips are cracking :D
Title: Re: What's wrong with Lachie?
Post by: cimm1979 on May 26, 2014, 08:31:59 pm
He seems to have trouble getting separation, which is not something he normally struggles with.

OP or a groin of some sort.?
Title: Re: What's wrong with Lachie?
Post by: laj on May 26, 2014, 09:03:25 pm
Probably a lack of a decent pre-season. Looking at that last kick for  goal, where he was cramping alot, indicates his fitness isn't there at the moment.
Title: Re: What's wrong with Lachie?
Post by: cimm1979 on May 26, 2014, 09:06:48 pm
Probably a lack of a decent pre-season. Looking at that last kick for  goal, where he was cramping alot, indicates his fitness isn't there at the moment.

Thats what I would have thought, but he doesn't seem to get any distance from his man. That could just be a combination of TV and poor delivery I suppose.

A question for those at the game, does he get separation at all?

He was getting clear a month ago.
Title: Re: What's wrong with Lachie?
Post by: PassIt2Carrots on May 26, 2014, 09:10:34 pm
He had 13 kicks 8 marks and 5.3 against the Doggies. His form has been poor either side of that with a very good game against WCE. I called it after the scum game, he does not play like he wants it bad enough.
Title: Re: What's wrong with Lachie?
Post by: kruddler on May 26, 2014, 09:24:23 pm
He had 13 kicks 8 marks and 5.3 against the Doggies. His form has been poor either side of that with a very good game against WCE. I called it after the scum game, he does not play like he wants it bad enough.

The dogs were missing 2 of their best key defenders. Including our game, there were 8 out of 10 opposition key forwards to that stage of the season had there best return against that dogs defenders. Both Henderson and Waite had season bests against the dogs.

Thats massive.
Title: Re: What's wrong with Lachie?
Post by: madbluboy on May 26, 2014, 09:34:07 pm
He lacks pace to make strong leads.
Title: Re: What's wrong with Lachie?
Post by: BluePhantom on May 26, 2014, 09:41:11 pm
Amazingly he is playing so badly and we keep winning, considering last year we needed him to play his best to be any hope of winning.
Title: Re: What's wrong with Lachie?
Post by: Raydan on May 26, 2014, 09:43:15 pm
He's a CHB being played out of position.

He was almost AA CHB two seasons ago and teamed very well with Jammo. Rowe is average at best. Lachie has polish with his disposal something that Rowe will never have.

I want to see Henderson at CHB for the rest of the season and Watson given a 3-4 week block at CHF before we toss him.
Title: Re: What's wrong with Lachie?
Post by: Mantis on May 26, 2014, 09:43:42 pm
Dont think he's being played out of position. He is a decent forward.

I'd suggest he had 2 ops over the pre season. The last one being close to Feb-March from memory.

He would also be getting the number one backman now.

Probably needs to get more up the ground but fitness is lacking and now has probably lost a bit of confidence.

There was also the rumour that he had broken up with his childhood sweetheart recently.

I reckon he's one good game from turning his whole form around.

Hopefully its this week against his (and Docho's) ex team.

In some cases it can be that easy. Lets hope in his case you are spot on. ;)
Title: Re: What's wrong with Lachie?
Post by: Jofo on May 26, 2014, 10:23:36 pm
Hendo cramped up in the last quarter and its round 10! Clearly, he is suffering from a lack of preseason conditioning. That's all.
Title: Re: What's wrong with Lachie?
Post by: Juddkreuzer on May 27, 2014, 12:04:46 am
Hendo cramped up in the last quarter and its round 10! Clearly, he is suffering from a lack of preseason conditioning. That's all.

Zach presented on his shoulder yet he still went back and butchered it.
Title: Re: What's wrong with Lachie?
Post by: RiverRat on May 27, 2014, 12:33:35 am
A few weeks as the main tall forward (until Waite returned) against teams that always play a loose man in defence - he has been consistently outnumbered.

This week, even with Waite back, I noticed that Hendo consistently took his opponent to man up on the loose player so he is also sacrificing himself to create space for Menzel and others.

White, Rowe and Jamo are working well together in defence so, unless they want to swap him with Rowe, he is probably better suited where he is.
Title: Re: What's wrong with Lachie?
Post by: Juddkreuzer on May 27, 2014, 12:49:12 am
This week, even with Waite back, I noticed that Hendo consistently took his opponent to man up on the loose player so he is also sacrificing himself to create space for Menzel and others.

Menzel can earn his own ball. Lachie needs to present and challenge opposition defence. We need him to be potent in attack and not just a decoy.
Title: Re: What's wrong with Lachie?
Post by: denimundies on May 27, 2014, 12:55:46 am
This week, even with Waite back, I noticed that Hendo consistently took his opponent to man up on the loose player so he is also sacrificing himself to create space for Menzel and others.

Menzel can earn his own ball. Lachie needs to present and challenge opposition defence. We need him to be potent in attack and not just a decoy.

If it was in fact a team directive, then full respect for the sacrifice
Title: Re: What's wrong with Lachie?
Post by: Juddkreuzer on May 27, 2014, 01:00:04 am
This week, even with Waite back, I noticed that Hendo consistently took his opponent to man up on the loose player so he is also sacrificing himself to create space for Menzel and others.

Menzel can earn his own ball. Lachie needs to present and challenge opposition defence. We need him to be potent in attack and not just a decoy.

If it was in fact a team directive, then full respect for the sacrifice

Important from a supporter perspective that it is acknowledged.
Title: Re: What's wrong with Lachie?
Post by: emtwenty on May 27, 2014, 09:08:34 am
Mick said in his weekly video that Murph sacrificed his game in the second half so I'm not surprised if Lachie had the same instructions.
Title: Re: What's wrong with Lachie?
Post by: PassIt2Carrots on May 27, 2014, 09:20:23 am
Every week?
Title: Re: What's wrong with Lachie?
Post by: enz on May 27, 2014, 09:53:43 am
Every week?

Best thing is we are winning!!!
Title: Re: What's wrong with Lachie?
Post by: PassIt2Carrots on May 27, 2014, 10:01:00 am
I'm just wondering how Murphy sacrificed his game though what did Mick say? Surely a nil all with Kerridge in the second half is a win for the Crows not us?
Title: Re: What's wrong with Lachie?
Post by: LP on May 27, 2014, 11:03:55 am
I think Murphy sacrificing his game helps leave blokes like Menzel and Yarran free to roam more.

I think there were some significant firsts in this game, some plans were implemented that I haven't seen before as being deliberate.

For example a lot of supporters bag Rowe, who was screwed by the umpires by the way, that bloke worked from FB to FF the whole game. If you don't believe me take a look at the Yarran running goal, see who shepherds the ball across the line, moments earlier he was working on the HB line!

I suspect one of the reasons Hendo is struggling because he is no longer the sole focus, he has to share the space with Casboult, Rowe and others. This sort of fits with MMs previous mantra that players must be flexible.
Title: Re: What's wrong with Lachie?
Post by: PassIt2Carrots on May 27, 2014, 11:12:53 am
But when they do kick the ball to him he doesn't look like taking the mark full stop, hard hands and not too much intent. Zero recovery from marking contests.
Title: Re: What's wrong with Lachie?
Post by: Jean-Claude on May 27, 2014, 02:58:45 pm
Hasn't come on as a forward as I hoped and looks uncomfortable there right now. Unfortunately for Lachie he is missing the two key ingredients that make a key forward in my opinion.

1. Presence (he is a great clubman and all but playing forward requires a bit of ego and an ability to demand the ball etc...)
2. Athleticism (he can't get seperation on leads, hasn't got Waite's leap and isn't big enough to just use his size ala Brown or Hawkins)

He looks a much more natural defender but we need to make sure we are getting contests up forward and Rowe is holding his own down back, so he is a bit in no mans land right now. He just needs to find a way to work his way into games more somehow.
Title: Re: What's wrong with Lachie?
Post by: bignic on May 27, 2014, 03:06:33 pm
Just totally out of form.

No second effort, can't take a mark to save himself. Would be dropped if we had a replacement.

I would put him down back and put Walker up forward. Hendo will actually have to put in down back.
Title: Re: What's wrong with Lachie?
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on May 27, 2014, 03:13:57 pm
Played out of form by all the moving back and forward........best at CHB and left there and only moved forward for shcck value.
Title: Re: What's wrong with Lachie?
Post by: LP on May 27, 2014, 03:49:11 pm
Played out of form by all the moving back and forward........best at CHB and left there and only moved forward for shcck value.

Yep I agree, straight line running suits him and you can set yourself up to make contests ahead of you in the back line much easier than when you are trying to win the ball in the forward line.

Whatever has happened, in fitness, mind or health, we have killed Hendo's confidence.

In the last decade or so we have done this better than any!
Title: Re: What's wrong with Lachie?
Post by: kruddler on May 27, 2014, 06:10:32 pm
This week, even with Waite back, I noticed that Hendo consistently took his opponent to man up on the loose player so he is also sacrificing himself to create space for Menzel and others.

Menzel can earn his own ball. Lachie needs to present and challenge opposition defence. We need him to be potent in attack and not just a decoy.

If it was in fact a team directive, then full respect for the sacrifice

Regardless on whether it is a team directive or not, it is smart play and should be commended.

Gives us a spare number when if he didn't means we were one short.
Title: Re: What's wrong with Lachie?
Post by: crashlander on May 27, 2014, 07:20:41 pm
One our most consistent players in 2013. A legitimate swingman who could influence a game at both ends. Looked to be coming into his prime.

His last 4-5 weeks have been worse than poor. He is only getting a handful of touches and having Zero influences on games.

So what's wrong with Lachie, injury?, form?, or just played out of position?
I think that Hendo's issue this year is that he barely had a preseason. When he had a similar issue a couple of years back, it took more than half a season to get back to form, and a positional move to HB.
I feel loath to move him back at the moment. Our defence is actually working quite well at the moment: Rowe and White are in career best form and really doing a good job. I really don't want to move either one unless something very different happens down there.
We really NEED Hendo in the forward line but maybe giving him some time in the VFL to get some back would be appropriate. Our total lack of key forwards is something we can't do anything about at the moment. But we REALLY need a top class forward.
Title: Re: What's wrong with Lachie?
Post by: emtwenty on May 27, 2014, 09:37:46 pm
I'm just wondering how Murphy sacrificed his game though what did Mick say? Surely a nil all with Kerridge in the second half is a win for the Crows not us?

He said Murph was instructed to block a certain part of the space in a stoppage in the second half . Not really sure what that means - it's surprising that one of our most damaging mids would be asked to guard space.
Title: Re: What's wrong with Lachie?
Post by: Thryleon on May 28, 2014, 12:03:45 am
I'm just wondering how Murphy sacrificed his game though what did Mick say? Surely a nil all with Kerridge in the second half is a win for the Crows not us?

He said Murph was instructed to block a certain part of the space in a stoppage in the second half . Not really sure what that means - it's surprising that one of our most damaging mids would be asked to guard space.
It's a radical move that would surprise a lot of teams, not to mention it would clog an area that Dangerfield or Sloane would work in. 

Not to mention it would leave someone else like Simpson in the position to do the damaging work.   Clever if true.
Title: Re: What's wrong with Lachie?
Post by: denimundies on May 28, 2014, 12:44:55 am
Hasn't come on as a forward as I hoped and looks uncomfortable there right now. Unfortunately for Lachie he is missing the two key ingredients that make a key forward in my opinion.

1. Presence (he is a great clubman and all but playing forward requires a bit of ego and an ability to demand the ball etc...)
2. Athleticism (he can't get seperation on leads, hasn't got Waite's leap and isn't big enough to just use his size ala Brown or Hawkins)

He looks a much more natural defender but we need to make sure we are getting contests up forward and Rowe is holding his own down back, so he is a bit in no mans land right now. He just needs to find a way to work his way into games more somehow.

I think  I agree with your main sentiment, he seems much more comfortable and consistent as a defender. He has athleticism and definitely has awareness ie is a natural footballer, but it's more of an awareness based on when and  where to position himself to negate  and launch , rather than a pure physical  or speed advantage that you need in a forward.  Don't mind him going forward, occasionally and even in consecutive games, but I reckon his best position is defense. Only problem is Rowe is doing a fine job there atm, and we desperately need a forward. Just highlights our desperate need for a natural KPF.
Title: Re: What's wrong with Lachie?
Post by: MilkIt on May 28, 2014, 12:56:28 am
He worked his guts out on the weekend. I doubt he's carrying an injury but he isn't fully fit. He wouldn't be cramping if he was fit.

I don't believe he lacks pace either. The separation forwards get on the lead is from using their upper body strength to push off their man, receiving blocks from teammates and then having blokes kick it to their advantage so they don't have to break stride.

I would persist with him up forward.
Title: Re: What's wrong with Lachie?
Post by: denimundies on May 28, 2014, 01:01:22 am
He worked his guts out on the weekend. I doubt he's carrying an injury but he isn't fully fit. He wouldn't be cramping if he was fit.

I don't believe he lacks pace either. The separation forwards get on the lead is from using their upper body strength to push off their man, receiving blocks from teammates and then having blokes kick it to their advantage so they don't have to break stride.

I would persist with him up forward.

I think we have no choice this year but to persist. It's probably also fair to say that level of fitness required for KPF is higher than KPD? In which case next preseason is vital if he is going to permanently hold down the role.
Title: Re: What's wrong with Lachie?
Post by: Jofo on May 28, 2014, 07:28:06 am
Hendo cramped up in the last quarter and its round 10! Clearly, he is suffering from a lack of preseason conditioning. That's all.

Zach presented on his shoulder yet he still went back and butchered it.

Betts was awake to it. He was lurking 2-3 metres behind Touhey.
Title: Re: What's wrong with Lachie?
Post by: LP on May 28, 2014, 11:00:38 am
Hendo cramped up in the last quarter and its round 10! Clearly, he is suffering from a lack of preseason conditioning. That's all.

Zach presented on his shoulder yet he still went back and butchered it.

Betts was awake to it. He was lurking 2-3 metres behind Touhey.
You can still do a give and go as Betts can only tackle one, teams do it all the time.
Title: Re: What's wrong with Lachie?
Post by: ItsOurTime on May 28, 2014, 11:29:37 am
Hendo cramped up in the last quarter and its round 10! Clearly, he is suffering from a lack of preseason conditioning. That's all.

Zach presented on his shoulder yet he still went back and butchered it.

Betts was awake to it. He was lurking 2-3 metres behind Touhey.
You can still do a give and go as Betts can only tackle one, teams do it all the time.

There was a guy on the mark so it wasn't really a two on one.

. Betts took a little while to get to 2E, I think the play was there if he was quick enough.
Title: Re: What's wrong with Lachie?
Post by: Thryleon on May 28, 2014, 11:53:43 am
Hendo cramped up in the last quarter and its round 10! Clearly, he is suffering from a lack of preseason conditioning. That's all.

Zach presented on his shoulder yet he still went back and butchered it.

Betts was awake to it. He was lurking 2-3 metres behind Touhey.

Go down with a cramp requiring the trainers, and get Tuohy to take the set shot instead is what Hendo should have done.

Oh well, you live you learn.

Title: Re: What's wrong with Lachie?
Post by: PassIt2Carrots on May 28, 2014, 12:00:35 pm
Exactly what the commentators said, why wouldn't you claim cramp (which was obviously happening anyway) and let someone else take the kick.
Title: Re: What's wrong with Lachie?
Post by: Jean-Claude on May 28, 2014, 12:28:18 pm
Hasn't come on as a forward as I hoped and looks uncomfortable there right now. Unfortunately for Lachie he is missing the two key ingredients that make a key forward in my opinion.

1. Presence (he is a great clubman and all but playing forward requires a bit of ego and an ability to demand the ball etc...)
2. Athleticism (he can't get seperation on leads, hasn't got Waite's leap and isn't big enough to just use his size ala Brown or Hawkins)

He looks a much more natural defender but we need to make sure we are getting contests up forward and Rowe is holding his own down back, so he is a bit in no mans land right now. He just needs to find a way to work his way into games more somehow.

I think  I agree with your main sentiment, he seems much more comfortable and consistent as a defender. He has athleticism and definitely has awareness ie is a natural footballer, but it's more of an awareness based on when and  where to position himself to negate  and launch , rather than a pure physical  or speed advantage that you need in a forward.  Don't mind him going forward, occasionally and even in consecutive games, but I reckon his best position is defense. Only problem is Rowe is doing a fine job there atm, and we desperately need a forward. Just highlights our desperate need for a natural KPF.

Agree, his attributes are more suited to being a backman. I also feel as others have stated that he is missing some fitness and hopefully he works his way into some form and fitness as well.
Title: Re: What's wrong with Lachie?
Post by: Jofo on May 28, 2014, 09:20:36 pm
Exactly what the commentators said, why wouldn't you claim cramp (which was obviously happening anyway) and let someone else take the kick.

The umpire was telling him to hurry up or he'll call play on. It was right in front of me.
Title: Re: What's wrong with Lachie?
Post by: Dirty Harry on May 28, 2014, 10:19:25 pm
Exactly what the commentators said, why wouldn't you claim cramp (which was obviously happening anyway) and let someone else take the kick.

The umpire was telling him to hurry up or he'll call play on. It was right in front of me.

http://youtu.be/Yn1xwu5h10Q

 ;D
Title: Re: What's wrong with Lachie?
Post by: BluePhantom on May 28, 2014, 10:27:39 pm
Exactly what the commentators said, why wouldn't you claim cramp (which was obviously happening anyway) and let someone else take the kick.

The umpire was telling him to hurry up or he'll call play on. It was right in front of me.

http://youtu.be/Yn1xwu5h10Q

 ;D

How do you find this stuff ;D
Title: Re: What's wrong with Lachie?
Post by: Jofo on May 28, 2014, 10:34:54 pm
You know, I always think of that clip when I use those words. Very funny. ;)
Title: Re: What's wrong with Lachie?
Post by: PassIt2Carrots on May 29, 2014, 10:47:41 am
Exactly what the commentators said, why wouldn't you claim cramp (which was obviously happening anyway) and let someone else take the kick.

The umpire was telling him to hurry up or he'll call play on. It was right in front of me.

So he simply puts his arm up, sits down and says he can't take the kick. Not rocket science.
Title: Re: What's wrong with Lachie?
Post by: LP on May 29, 2014, 01:56:04 pm
So he simply puts his arm up, sits down and says he can't take the kick. Not rocket science.

We are not that smart, remember when 206 went to pieces!

In any case, subjectively I reckon Hendo would be one of our more reliable shots at goal but I haven't check his stats to confirm.

PS: ~65%, so he was a good choice.