A Thursday night game, which is a real pain for me.
Not looking good at this point. Not enough players contributing enough.
Team for tomorrow looks better than it has for a while, but it is still short of class:
B: Lachie Young Sam Durdin Harry Lemmey
HB: Billy Wilson Dom Akuei Brodie Kemp
C: Ollie Hollands Jaxon Binns Tom Phillips
HF: Ned Cahill Rob Monahan Ashton Moir
F: Liam McMahon Luke Nelson Alex Mirkov
R: Hudson O'Keefe Jack Carroll Zavier Maher
Int: Darcy Hogg Wil White Michael Lewis B Lambert Heath Ramshaw
Em: Archie Stevens Kristian Ferranato Jess Gedi Hayden Gill C Verrel L Prout Blake Kuipers Jack Lefroy
Alex Mirkov has really struggled since his return and is obviously a long way off the pace at the moment. On the other hand, he needs time on ground to get some form and fitness back.
Dom Akuei looks a long way off the pace. he has gone backwards and won't be on the list next year. Spots will be wanted, and he doesn't have the intensity to make it.
I'd be tempted to play Durdin next week for Young, if he gets through this game. he knows how to use his body, which Young doesn't.
Kemp also has a chance to impress: there is a spot there if he does the right thing.
I like what I see from Rob Monahan, but he is a long way off at the moment, especially in the key forward spot. He does have the pace and the intensity to make it.
Team for tomorrow looks better than it has for a while, but it is still short of class:
B: Lachie Young Sam Durdin Harry Lemmey
HB: Billy Wilson Dom Akuei Brodie Kemp
C: Ollie Hollands Jaxon Binns Tom Phillips
HF: Ned Cahill Rob Monahan Ashton Moir
F: Liam McMahon Luke Nelson Alex Mirkov
R: Hudson O'Keefe Jack Carroll Zavier Maher
Int: Darcy Hogg Wil White Michael Lewis B Lambert Heath Ramshaw
Em: Archie Stevens Kristian Ferranato Jess Gedi Hayden Gill C Verrel L Prout Blake Kuipers Jack Lefroy
Alex Mirkov has really struggled since his return and is obviously a long way off the pace at the moment. On the other hand, he needs time on ground to get some form and fitness back.
Dom Akuei looks a long way off the pace. he has gone backwards and won't be on the list next year. Spots will be wanted, and he doesn't have the intensity to make it.
I'd be tempted to play Durdin next week for Young, if he gets through this game. he knows how to use his body, which Young doesn't.
Kemp also has a chance to impress: there is a spot there if he does the right thing.
I like what I see from Rob Monahan, but he is a long way off at the moment, especially in the key forward spot. He does have the pace and the intensity to make it.
Young just seems plain timid and frightened to go near the ball (ie scared or knows he'll make a blue). There was one passage of play where he flat out looked at the ball and didn't pick it up thinking another Carlton player would (might have been Cottrell maybe?). He was clearly closer to the footy and should have attacked it and ran off with it, instead, he filled his shorts.
Vossy reckons in his presser we should get back Martin, Gov and Marchbank. Three very important ins (cant believe Im saying that about Marchbank).
Vossy reckons in his presser we should get back Martin, Gov and Marchbank. Three very important ins (cant believe Im saying that about Marchbank).
I'd have Kemp back in for Fritsch and forget about Marchbank...
Pittonet needs to rough up Gawn and Charlie owes us a big game.
I'd have Kemp back in for Fritsch and forget about Marchbank...
Pittonet needs to rough up Gawn and Charlie owes us a big game.
Yep, no to Marchbank... remember the last time he came in underdone! Mistakes galore.
Vossy reckons in his presser we should get back Martin, Gov and Marchbank. Three very important ins (cant believe Im saying that about Marchbank).
None of them feature in the VFL today, if they come straight in it appears the MC are showing signs of panic.
None of them feature in the VFL today, if they come straight in it appears the MC are showing signs of panic.
Would you play Gov or Martin in the Magoos?
They would both get injured running through an Auskick Banner.
I don't expect to win but I expect a lot of improvement in work rate, selection, and on field set up. A case of "how we play" (process) moreso than the results.
Would you play Gov or Martin in the Magoos?
They would both get injured running through an Auskick Banner.
I wouldn't hesitate giving them at least 1/2 or 3/4, because they are just as likely to pull a follicle in the warm up.
I don't expect to win but I expect a lot of improvement in work rate, selection, and on field set up. A case of "how we play" (process) moreso than the results.
Watching Melbourne against Geelong was an almost better side than when they won the last flag. Hard to find a weak link. If our pressure is just slightly off for a short period and if we continue to bomb long expecting talls to take a mark by chance, we will be given a lesson in how to lose another match.
I don't expect to win but I expect a lot of improvement in work rate, selection, and on field set up. A case of "how we play" (process) moreso than the results.
To be fair Prof, we did a lot well vs the Filth considering the limited I50s and only lost by 6 points as a result of a brain fade at a stoppage.
Watching Melbourne against Geelong was an almost better side than when they won the last flag. Hard to find a weak link. If our pressure is just slightly off for a short period and if we continue to bomb long expecting talls to take a mark by chance, we will be given a lesson in how to lose another match.
who Melbourne or Geelong? Had Cameron kicked like last week Geelong would have won.
What Melbourne didn't do is attack the ball carrier leaving players free in defensive 50. They worked backwards to cover options which artificially creates panic and makes players kick longer to a contest.
We didn't change this against Geelong until it was far too late, and paid dearly for it.
who Melbourne or Geelong? Had Cameron kicked like last week Geelong would have won.
What Melbourne didn't do is attack the ball carrier leaving players free in defensive 50. They worked backwards to cover options which artificially creates panic and makes players kick longer to a contest.
We didn't change this against Geelong until it was far too late, and paid dearly for it.
Lever and May will just gobble up our bombs into the fwd line.
Geelong are posers we should have won that game last week if it wasn't for meek defensive efforts from the usual suspects - giving away goals like lollies.
Better defensively against the Filth and Gov is coming back which will settle and reinforce the defence a little bit more.
Geelong are posers we should have won that game last week if it wasn't for meek defensive efforts from the usual suspects - giving away goals like lollies.
Better defensively against the Filth and Gov is coming back which will settle and reinforce the defence a little bit more.
Right this very minute, I say we are the posers and better rectify it quickly if we want to contend.
Right this very minute, I say we are the posers and better rectify it quickly if we want to contend.
Agree.....the Voss reaction with Cerra on the boundary shows he isnt happy and Id expect a few home truths and back to basics football vs Melbourne with defense ,manning up as a priority and sticking to the game plan.
Agree.....the Voss reaction with Cerra on the boundary shows he isnt happy and Id expect a few home truths and back to basics football vs Melbourne with defense ,manning up as a priority and sticking to the game plan.
Its not panic stations yet but we need to beat the Colls, the Geels, etc. Right now with Freo beating Rich, we are sitting 8th.
Its not panic stations yet but we need to beat the Colls, the Geels, etc. Right now with Freo beating Rich, we are sitting 8th.
Got a few big heads drinking their own bathwater and forgetting about doing the hard stuff hoping stalwarts Cripps, Weitering etc will save the day. We lost the clearances to a depleted Pies midfield ...that should never , never happen if we want to win the big games.
Got a few big heads drinking their own bathwater and forgetting about doing the hard stuff hoping stalwarts Cripps, Weitering etc will save the day. We lost the clearances to a depleted Pies midfield ...that should never , never happen if we want to win the big games.
But lets just blame umpiring decisions shall we🤦🏻
Its not panic stations yet but we need to beat the Colls, the Geels, etc. Right now with Freo beating Rich, we are sitting 8th.
8th place, with the 8th best % (which is low for a side with top 4 aspirations). Sharp feedback saying that we are where we belong at this time. No better.
We've done a lot of talking the talk, but nowhere enough walking the talk.
The next 4 weeks defines 2024 for us - either contending for a top 4 spot, or scrambling to make the 8.
Wonder if we can borrow Ed Curnow's BBQ patch again this week.....?
Lost three of four since the decision was made to play two rucks and took away run.
Just not happening. Needs to change - if we persist with it then Pitto needs to do alot more. Needs to either tackle more or take more marks... expecting both is abit much but if he is going to drop marks then he needs to tackle. TDK was tracking nicely in all three categories before moving him forward. He was tackling, marking and winning clearances not as many as Pitto but he has a more balanced A grade type game thats growing. Can't take run away from this team against the Dees. imo
The current problems have nothing to do with our ruck or midfield, claiming it's the ruck at fault is a confusion of correlation versus causation, and the assertion about the ruck causes a distraction that lets the real issues slip by without being addressed / discussed.
The rucks / midfield didn't;
- Cause Williams to be penalised.
- Allow Pendlebury to kick it OOBOTF
- Ignore the holds on BigH and Charlie.
- Allow Maynard and Schulz to drop it cold.
- Cause the frequent poor uncontested disposal going into F50.
- Cause injuries to Martin, McGovern, Saad, Marchbank, Fogarty and et., al..
- Permit Fantasia and Durdin to play on largely free of contributions to the match.
Yet the fan overreaction seems to be to pick this moment to force one of our rucks to go solo for four quarters against Gawn.
So the fan tactical plan is to make one of the few areas we are winning at the moment, and turn it into a potential loser! :o
Lost three of four since the decision was made to play two rucks and took away run.
Just not happening. Needs to change - if we persist with it then Pitto needs to do alot more. Needs to either tackle more or take more marks... expecting both is abit much but if he is going to drop marks then he needs to tackle. TDK was tracking nicely in all three categories before moving him forward. He was tackling, marking and winning clearances not as many as Pitto but he has a more balanced A grade type game thats growing. Can't take run away from this team against the Dees. imo
I thought Pittonet played a decent game...he got away with a bit too pushing the Pies rucks away from the ball with two hands well before the ball arrived imho, he will need to do that to Gawn and hopefully slow him down so TDK can jump all over him later.
While Im not a fan of two ruckman every game I think vs Melb with Gawn its sensible to try and wear him down and negate his influence. We will probably get slaughtered in the hitouts but if we can prevent him directing them and taking marks around the ground it will go a long way to winning the game and I think Pittonet getting his big frame in the packs might help our mids as the Dees have some strong bodies around the ball like we do and it will be a war of attrition given the short turn around with both teams having played tough games.
................. I think Pittonet getting his big frame in the packs might help our mids as the Dees have some strong bodies around the ball like we do and it will be a war of attrition given the short turn around with both teams having played tough games.
Agreed, I think the bigger problem for us it that the form lines are heading in the wrong directions, they are on the up and we are on the slide!
If we thought Elliott got an armchair ride, wait until you see Petracca up close, if Pitto, Hewett or Kennedy even brush a forearm hair against Petracca's passing frame it'll be free kick and 50m!
After a week of the media blasting the AFL over "holding the ball" and "Incorrect disposal", I'm pegging the first fan shock of next Thursday night will be Kysaiah being awarded a free kick for poleaxing Walsh or Cripps at a stoppage causing them to drop the footy, that is generally exactly how the AFL roll!
Agreed, I think the bigger problem for us it that the form lines are heading in the wrong directions, they are on the up and we are on the slide!
If we thought Elliott got an armchair ride, wait until you see Petracca up close, if Pitto, Hewett or Kennedy even brush a forearm hair against Petracca's passing frame it'll be free kick and 50m!
After a week of the media blasting the AFL over "holding the ball" and "Incorrect disposal", I'm pegging the first fan shock of next Thursday night will be Kysaiah being awarded a free kick for poleaxing Walsh or Cripps at a stoppage causing them to drop the footy. That is generally exactly how the AFL roll!
See Fritsch...getting dubious frees..
See Fritsch...getting dubious frees..
No Kemp, ................... no options.
Dubious frees are a part of the game but missing run, ground ball winners and being clean in contest is a coaching thing.
No Kemp, ................... no options.
Kemp has to be an in.....and Id be considering McGovern for Fritsch if fit and ready and making the Melb player work a bit harder defending when we rebound. Kemp might have to play on Petracca when he goes forward and its going to be challenging finding a player for Williams to operate on...
Not to mention TDK has been a very dangerous addition to the forwardline, and he has been scoring his 1 to 2 goals a game (should have had 3 against the Pies, but missed one that was gettable).
I think we just need to tidy it up a bit, and be a bit smarter and we will be fine. No need to panic, its not a personell issue, its an execution problem.
Not to mention TDK has been a very dangerous addition to the forwardline, and he has been scoring his 1 to 2 goals a game (should have had 3 against the Pies, but missed one that was gettable).
I think we just need to tidy it up a bit, and be a bit smarter and we will be fine. No need to panic, its not a personell issue, its an execution problem.
We've lost our run and dare from beginning of year and now handballing backwards - the lack of run from behind for the handball receive to slice an opportunity through the corridor has gone completely missing. Not enough run... and it's frustrating to watch.
Not to mention TDK has been a very dangerous addition to the forwardline, and he has been scoring his 1 to 2 goals a game (should have had 3 against the Pies, but missed one that was gettable).
I think we just need to tidy it up a bit, and be a bit smarter and we will be fine. No need to panic, its not a personell issue, its an execution problem.
Perfect summary, no need to become Cortes at the moment!
Not to mention TDK has been a very dangerous addition to the forwardline, and he has been scoring his 1 to 2 goals a game (should have had 3 against the Pies, but missed one that was gettable).
I think we just need to tidy it up a bit, and be a bit smarter and we will be fine. No need to panic, its not a personell issue, its an execution problem.
Yes. This week, they have gun defenders in May Lever and McDonald to have a dance with Charlie Harry and Tom.
Not to mention TDK has been a very dangerous addition to the forwardline, and he has been scoring his 1 to 2 goals a game (should have had 3 against the Pies, but missed one that was gettable).
I think we just need to tidy it up a bit, and be a bit smarter and we will be fine. No need to panic, its not a personell issue, its an execution problem.
I'd have to agree. I was frustrated whilst watching the game and in the immediate aftermath. It felt like a rugby fest. But in hindsight I think the two teams were more even than many suggest.
Not to mention TDK has been a very dangerous addition to the forwardline, and he has been scoring his 1 to 2 goals a game (should have had 3 against the Pies, but missed one that was gettable).
I think we just need to tidy it up a bit, and be a bit smarter and we will be fine. No need to panic, its not a personell issue, its an execution problem.
Yes, one goal in the four games BP and and five in the four WP games is a fair improvement.
I tend to agree that we're not doing too much wrong and a tweak here and there should get us back on the winning list. However, I do think that our personnel comes into it too. We've gone about as far as we can go with the "next man up" and need to start replacing some of those next men with the likes of Martin, McGovern and Motlop.
For me it:
FB Nic Newman Jacob Weitering Jordan Boyd
HB Brodie Kemp Mitch McGovern Caleb Marchbank
C Blake Acres Patrick Cripps Oliver Hollands
HF Matt Cottrell Charlie Curnow David Cuningham
FF Tom De Koning Harry McKay Matt Owies
F Marc Pittonet Adam Cerra Sam Walsh
INT George Hewett Matthew Kennedy Elijah Hollands Corey Durdin
SUB Lachlan Cowan or Alex Cincotta
IN McGovern Kemp Marchbank Hollands
OUT Williams Fantasia Young Cowan or Cincotta
Completely new HB line
Ollie back in on a wing
We played the two rucks, no Harry and won that epic final.
We had Doc and Saady though.
Durdin Cunningham Elijah, consider yourselves lucky. Voss might not be as kind to you.
Docherty is a massive out for us...chuck in no Saad and McG and all our smarter defensive types are missing.
I don't expect any big ins this week. They're not ready. But now that we've been written off for the year maybe we'll find the correct mindset again. Heads got a bit big I reckon.
Yes, one goal in the four games BP and and five in the four WP games is a fair improvement.
I tend to agree that we're not doing too much wrong and a tweak here and there should get us back on the winning list. However, I do think that our personnel comes into it too. We've gone about as far as we can go with the "next man up" and need to start replacing some of those next men with the likes of Martin, McGovern and Motlop.
Agree... and disagree to a degree, David.
There was a reasonable expectation that after 33% of the season played we'd find ourselves in the top 4. Yes, the season is still young. But we find ourselves hanging on in 8th place with 2 real tough games ahead.
If we zoom out and be objective, we're a much better side than recent years, but any papered over cracks our now obvious. We've not taken the next step... yet. We have it in us. As an aside, it was a very strange feeling being in the crowd last Friday evening. Bagger fans were strangely pensive. Like a collective unconscious doubt. I couldn't feel any optimism. Others around me had the same feeling. None of us were surprised we lost. Weird.
We have the personnel, no doubt - players and coaches (though I still firmly believe we need a coaching influence on game day from someone with strong strategic ability - Hodge? Ratts?). But we still have a midfield, forward line connection issue. Not helped by 'bombing' onto the heads of H / Charles... not kicking to where they're leading to or should be. Lacking efficiency - over possessing/stuffing around with the aggot.
Seeing Martin & Motlop as being the Messiah's is fraught with danger. Though the absence of Fantasia would be a positive step. We can't afford the luxury of carrying anyone. Last Friday evening seeing Fantasia in the starting 22 ...again, along with Martin on the last line and Chugga being the emergency were absolute howlers. And most of us knew just that before the ball was bounced to start the game.
I still firmly believe that going into the Go Dees game on Thursday evening with a strong, committed and ruthless mindset of being the 'hunters' (for all 120 minutes) will resolve many an issue.
I suppose many could argue we made finals last season from a much lower base, the trick this year might be not wasting a better start to the season.
But regardless of intent and work ethic, luck still plays a huge part at the end of the season, you can make some of your own luck, but you can't make all of it.
Sometimes the luck of somebody else is more important than your own!
For me it:
FB Nic Newman Jacob Weitering Jordan Boyd
HB Brodie Kemp Mitch McGovern Caleb Marchbank
C Blake Acres Patrick Cripps Oliver Hollands
HF Matt Cottrell Charlie Curnow David Cuningham
FF Tom De Koning Harry McKay Matt Owies
F Marc Pittonet Adam Cerra Sam Walsh
INT George Hewett Matthew Kennedy Elijah Hollands Corey Durdin
SUB Lachlan Cowan or Alex Cincotta
IN McGovern Kemp Marchbank Hollands
OUT Williams Fantasia Young Cowan or Cincotta
Completely new HB line
Ollie back in on a wing
We played the two rucks, no Harry and won that epic final.
We had Doc and Saady though.
Durdin Cunningham Elijah, consider yourselves lucky. Voss might not be as kind to you.
Like it, GTC... however... no way would I bring in Marchbank until he's regained match form in the Magoos. I'd back Cincotta and Cowan down back, but give them license to run-off their opponents.
Kemp for moi is a quandary. I love his attack and offensive game. Too good to be in the Magoos. Stubbornly refusing to try him elsewhere on the ground may be an issue.
Agree with no Young in your side. Too limited and one-dimensional. Understand including him because of his height, and he competes quite well in that regard, but he offers little else.
Ollie Hollands didn't front up for the Magoos game... if he does come in on the wing, perhaps a defensive role on Ed? Must say I prefer Acres and Cotters on the wings.
I'm assuming Young only stayed in the side because of Cox.
Out: Williams, Young
In: Kemp, McGovern
For me it:
FB Nic Newman Jacob Weitering Jordan Boyd
HB Brodie Kemp Mitch McGovern Caleb Marchbank
C Blake Acres Patrick Cripps Oliver Hollands
HF Matt Cottrell Charlie Curnow David Cuningham
FF Tom De Koning Harry McKay Matt Owies
F Marc Pittonet Adam Cerra Sam Walsh
INT George Hewett Matthew Kennedy Elijah Hollands Corey Durdin
SUB Lachlan Cowan or Alex Cincotta
IN McGovern Kemp Marchbank Hollands
OUT Williams Fantasia Young Cowan or Cincotta
Completely new HB line
Ollie back in on a wing
We played the two rucks, no Harry and won that epic final.
We had Doc and Saady though.
Durdin Cunningham Elijah, consider yourselves lucky. Voss might not be as kind to you.
Apparently, Martin is ready this week too. I'd let Marchbank play the twos as I worry about bringing in too many that have missed a bit of football.
Martin needs to play VFL.
Martin needs to play VFL.
The small/medium forwards are going so crap that I'd play him.
Martin needs to play VFL.
I’ll pass on the “to get injured” comment
🙂
We have few players who can walk straight back into the firsts. Cerra was clearly underdone last week and may have been better off having a run in the Magoos or as the sub.
Martin is one player who I would bring straight back in. He doesn’t need to get a lot of the ball to have an impact and we do need to get more out of our small forwards.
At the very least, the opposition defenders have to put work into him.
I'm assuming Young only stayed in the side because of Cox.
Out: Williams, Young
In: Kemp, McGovern
I would add to your outs, Fantasia.
And his replacement, Martin.
I would add to your outs, Fantasia.
And his replacement, Martin.
Martin could be started sub, break down after 10 minutes of game time and still give us more than what Fantasia gave us last game.
Must make that change as a minimum.
Under normal circumstances Martin, McGovern and Marchbank would get time in the VFL after being on the sidelines for so long, but given their susceptibility to injury can we afford to have them injured in the VFL rather than playing them in the firsts?
Martin won't be fit enough. He needs match fitness in the VFL.
Depth is obviously not good enough. Marchbank and Martin have never played a full season and not sure they should be at the club next season. Kemp is durable and still gobsmacked he was dropped and still gobsmacked Kennedy was sub. Expect the unexpected.
To keep top four chances alive this is a must win match.
I think it's time to give Binns a go.
Depth is obviously not good enough. Marchbank and Martin have never played a full season and not sure they should be at the club next season. Kemp is durable and still gobsmacked he was dropped and still gobsmacked Kennedy was sub. Expect the unexpected.
To keep top four chances alive this is a must win match.
How many players at Geelong play a full season?
We don't need to play the same players each and every game.
We should be smart about rotations, not just during game, but week to week.
What good does it do your 'best 22' by playing them every week and running them into the ground when they are most likely carrying niggles for most of that.
What good does it do your 'next 22' by playing them in the 2's every week and expecting them to be up to AFL standard when called upon?
Managing players is something we haven't quite got the hang of yet like some of the better clubs.
Why do we need Martin, Marchbank....whoever to play every week? Let them rest and recover. What are we hurting, their pride??
Let Walsh see what its like to play in a side that doesn't have Cripps.
Let TDK see what its like to play in a side that doesn't have Charlie as the #1 go to.
Let McGovern play in a side that doesn't have Weitering as the #1 defender.
Trial this stuff during the season so everyone knows what to expect when 'something happens' and we are left trying to scramble and pick up the pieces.
Martin for 15 games a year and resting every 3rd week is all we need as a club.
Vossy should be at the forefront of this with what happened during his time under Lethal at the Lions. Get your team ready for the end of the year by being smart during the year.
Not sure which grand final team past 20 years had key players missing for half a season...Saady injury is part of the footy gods the other two their bodies are not up to AFL football - I guess it comes down to how much we pay them if we pay them for half a year worth of input then okay if not then not okay.
Depth is obviously not good enough. Marchbank and Martin have never played a full season and not sure they should be at the club next season. Kemp is durable and still gobsmacked he was dropped and still gobsmacked Kennedy was sub. Expect the unexpected.
To keep top four chances alive this is a must win match.
I'll go even deeper - Moir has had a tough run in the VFL in a very weak team limited with opportunity. He should be sub instead of Fantasia. Binns should definitely play full game - his outstanding and consistent form deserves it
Martin won't be fit enough. He needs match fitness in the VFL.
If he's declared ready to play, he'll be fit enough. The days of needing matches in the 2s are over for players like Martin. Get him straight in.
Not sure which grand final team past 20 years had key players missing for half a season...Saady injury is part of the footy gods the other two their bodies are not up to AFL football - I guess it comes down to how much we pay them if we pay them for half a year worth of input then okay if not then not okay.
Why 20 years? Because 23 years hurt your argument?
Triple premiership player Clark Keating played 20, 12 and 12 games in premiership years. The last of which he didn't play his 1st game until R15. THe next year when they were runner ups he only played 11 as well.
Geelong has made resting players a fine art with an ageing list. Danger, Selwood, Hawkins, Cameron.....whoever, they all get an extra rest of 2 throughout the year. Works for them.
Why 20 years? Because 23 years hurt your argument?
Triple premiership player Clark Keating played 20, 12 and 12 games in premiership years. The last of which he didn't play his 1st game until R15. THe next year when they were runner ups he only played 11 as well.
Geelong has made resting players a fine art with an ageing list. Danger, Selwood, Hawkins, Cameron.....whoever, they all get an extra rest of 2 throughout the year. Works for them.
I am not sure where you find Marchbank and Martin are being rested they have being rested for 5-6 years.
You are comparing players that will be lucky to get 10 games out of them per season to 200+ game players over the age of 30
If he's declared ready to play, he'll be fit enough. The days of needing matches in the 2s are over for players like Martin. Get him straight in.
His base fitness levels are generally poor. Most players can come straight back in but not him. His first game back last year against the bombers had to be subbed off as he was absolutely spent.
Agree with everything else Kruddler said.
I am not sure where you find Marchbank and Martin are being rested they have being rested for 5-6 years.
You are comparing players that will be lucky to get 10 games out of them per season to 200+ game players over the age of 30
The point is, why do we play players until we break them.
Yes, some are more fragile then others.
Some are taller than others.
Some are faster than others.
Some are stronger than others.
Find out the attributes of the player and play to their advantages and cover their weaknesses.
If a weakness is their longevity, or durability, cover for it. Rest them when you need too.
Both Martin and Marchbank are very good players when they are fit....we just don't see it enough. So rather than keep doing the same thing and expecting different results, change the way we approach them......and everyone.
Doesn't have to be limited to them. Many on here were suggesting we rest cripps a couple years ago when he was clearly injured. But the club kept insisting everything was fine, and we got a half-fit cripps for the whole year, rather than being without him for 2-3.....7 weeks or whatever it needed to be to get him back to a 'fit' level where he could perform.
I've heard Marc Murphy talk about this, and its something he didn't realise until later in his career.
Players would have surgery as a 1st call to 'fix' something if it meant they could play a week earlier than had they simply sat out and rested. These surgeries can lead to further issues down the track and potentially do more harm than good in some instances.
We are obsessed with getting back and playing THIS WEEK at the expense of next week, next month or next year. Why?
As mentioned, Geelong are leading the pack in this regard. Resting Danger, Hawkins, Cameron, Selwood......hard to find some bigger names in the comp than them, but they find a way to rest them and do ok......most likely because they rest them is why they do ok. So why do we think we know better than them?
Be smarter with how we deal with our players, our seasons depend on it!
Fair points tbh.
Prefer a ruthless approach and replace them with good durable players in aim to build synergy and connection between the lines.
Elijah Hollands + Blake Acres are perfect examples while not superstars maintaining match fitness and connection is super critical in todays game.. top end talent helps but not critical
For example I would replace both with Josh Battle and Will Hayward - they are reliable and durable and greater chance to build connection between the lines on training track than these blokes
The point is, why do we play players until we break them.
Yes, some are more fragile then others.
Some are taller than others.
Some are faster than others.
Some are stronger than others.
Find out the attributes of the player and play to their advantages and cover their weaknesses.
If a weakness is their longevity, or durability, cover for it. Rest them when you need too.
Both Martin and Marchbank are very good players when they are fit....we just don't see it enough. So rather than keep doing the same thing and expecting different results, change the way we approach them......and everyone.
Doesn't have to be limited to them. Many on here were suggesting we rest cripps a couple years ago when he was clearly injured. But the club kept insisting everything was fine, and we got a half-fit cripps for the whole year, rather than being without him for 2-3.....7 weeks or whatever it needed to be to get him back to a 'fit' level where he could perform.
I've heard Marc Murphy talk about this, and its something he didn't realise until later in his career.
Players would have surgery as a 1st call to 'fix' something if it meant they could play a week earlier than had they simply sat out and rested. These surgeries can lead to further issues down the track and potentially do more harm than good in some instances.
We are obsessed with getting back and playing THIS WEEK at the expense of next week, next month or next year. Why?
As mentioned, Geelong are leading the pack in this regard. Resting Danger, Hawkins, Cameron, Selwood......hard to find some bigger names in the comp than them, but they find a way to rest them and do ok......most likely because they rest them is why they do ok. So why do we think we know better than them?
Be smarter with how we deal with our players, our seasons depend on it!
That’s all true … but hard to put into practice when a lot of first choice players are out injured.
Geelong has enjoyed an almost injury free season and they can happily rest or freshen up players as necessary.
For whatever reason, we’ve ended up with some very good players who aren’t very durable. That limits our ability to (a) win games and (b) give our elite core group an opportunity to refresh.
That’s all true … but hard to put into practice when a lot of first choice players are out injured.
Geelong has enjoyed an almost injury free season and they can happily rest or freshen up players as necessary.
Chicken and egg though.
Are geelong injury free because they rest?
Are we full of injuries because we don't?
Sure there is some colision injuries.
Sure there is some 'dumb luck' injuries.
But the more fatigued you are, the more likely you are to get injured. Facts.
I am sure Sam Menegola and Sam Simpson will be pleased to hear that Geelong prefer to rest players with 5-6 years history of soft tissue injury rather than delist
Unlike a team such as Geelong resting its senior players when they are showing signs of tiredness or weariness after a number of hard games, the Carlton experience of recent years is that the likes of Martin, Marchbank and McGovern suffer long term injuries before they get enough game time to warrant being rested.
Chicken and egg though.
Are geelong injury free because they rest?
Are we full of injuries because we don't?
Sure there is some colision injuries.
Sure there is some 'dumb luck' injuries.
But the more fatigued you are, the more likely you are to get injured. Facts.
You can’t rest players who can’t get on the park.
The fact is that we have six senior players who are out injured more often than not. Then there’s the usual run of injuries that most clubs experience.
Replace most or all of those six injury prone players and we could be in a position to better manage the workloads of Cripps, Walsh, McKay, Curnow, Weitering, Newman and the newbies.
OK, let me use real world examples to help push the point across.
Zac Williams. Long injury history.
2 weeks ago he was injured in the game and subbed out.
He was picked last week.
He got injured again.
Now vossy is saying he'll be right for this week.
Why?
We keep pushing and pushing and we'll eventually break him again. You could argue that if we rested him last week the result would've been different. Do we need to say the same thing after this week?
Rest him!
ZW should be on the trade table along with a pick. Maybe Bulldogs are stupid enough to bite considering they paid 3rd round for Coffield. Injury prone players with a long history are an avoid.
It is no secret the club needs to rebuild its depth because time is approaching fast to rest senior players periodically. But we havent got any 200 game 30 year olds yet.
OK, let me use real world examples to help push the point across.
Zac Williams. Long injury history.
2 weeks ago he was injured in the game and subbed out.
He was picked last week.
He got injured again.
Now vossy is saying he'll be right for this week.
Why?
We keep pushing and pushing and we'll eventually break him again. You could argue that if we rested him last week the result would've been different. Do we need to say the same thing after this week?
Rest him!
“Resting” Zac won’t improve his ability to stay on the park. He was subbed off for a corked calf one week and a corked glute the next week. Two impact injuries or Zac’s body saying enough is enough?
If we were to “manage” Zac, who comes into the team, Billy Wilson? Perhaps we could play Kennedy in defence and bring back Carroll?
Our situation is nothing like Geelong’s. They have almost a full list to pick from and half a dozen veterans who can benefit from an occasional spell. We have half a dozen players who probably aren’t up to the demands of AFL, several other injured players and no veterans who need an occasional spell.
“Resting” Zac won’t improve his ability to stay on the park. He was subbed off for a corked calf one week and a corked glute the next week. Two impact injuries or Zac’s body saying enough is enough?
If we were to “manage” Zac, who comes into the team, Billy Wilson? Perhaps we could play Kennedy in defence and bring back Carroll?
Our situation is nothing like Geelong’s. They have almost a full list to pick from and half a dozen veterans who can benefit from an occasional spell. We have half a dozen players who probably aren’t up to the demands of AFL, several other injured players and no veterans who need an occasional spell.
Tend to agree, to rest players you need to have someone worthwhile to promote, not sure if we have that.
A fully fit list on the other hand would open up options…
If Zac is not injured then he should be omitted.
I'll go even deeper - Moir has had a tough run in the VFL in a very weak team limited with opportunity. He should be sub instead of Fantasia.
Let's not kid ourselves, Moir is 10,000 miles off. Needs a heap of development in so many areas and is being given time to do that. Fast tracking our high draft picks is 'old Carlton' done in desperation in the past (a small number of exceptions) and ruined a number of careers.
Would he be any worse than that ex- cheats and Power bloke....there's a bloke 10,000 mile off it. Moir actually has the pace to chase and kicks goals from nothing.
Let's not kid ourselves, Moir is 10,000 miles off. Needs a heap of development in so many areas and is being given time to do that. Fast tracking our high draft picks is 'old Carlton' done in desperation in the past (a small number of exceptions) and ruined a number of careers.
Surely Moir can do what Fantasia does? Even I can.
I wonder how many of us are kind of nervous about the announcement of our team for tomorrow night? I know I am. What will the MC do? Gulp. If I see Fantasia in the 23 I'll implode.
Fingers crossed for Chugga in the starting 22, Martin in & Kemp in.
Not sure what you expect from Fantasia. We only had 38 inside 50s and had 12 goals from it which is a good return.
Say you swap Martin for Fantasia last week. Jack might kick 2 but Owies might only get 1. Jack might be too gassed to chase his man meaning others have to leave theirs. Collingwood score more.
Not everyone forward is going to get lots of the ball and kick goals.
We didn't lose because of Orazio.
We lost because Collingwood had a plan.
They blocked Cripps at every stoppage. They showed this on the Sunday footy show.
David King showed how they dragged Weitering out of the play. Even showed him being held on the ground for just long enough do he couldn't get back to help his defenders.
Let's not kid ourselves, Moir is 10,000 miles off. Needs a heap of development in so many areas and is being given time to do that. Fast tracking our high draft picks is 'old Carlton' done in desperation in the past (a small number of exceptions) and ruined a number of careers.
Yes, Moir needs to play more consistent footy before being considered for senior selection … and there’s no hurry.
Binns has benefited from being allowed to develop his craft in the Magoos and is way ahead of Moir.
Regardless of Fantasia's influence or opportunities last game, we are getting next to nothing out of him.
It's borders on bizarre that some fans want the likes of Williams, Owies or Durdin dropped, but want to retain Fantasia.
I admit I was unconvinced by Fantasia at the start of the season, I probably didn't give him a fair chance, then two weeks back he fooled me because he became more involved around the contest without really getting any significant footy. I thought he was on a better trajectory. However, a week later against the Filth was it for me, Fantasia is cooked.
He'll need a 20+ possession 3 or 4 goal game just to get back to scratch in my ratings, and it's probably best if it happens in the VFL.
Binns has benefited from being allowed to develop his craft in the Magoos and is way ahead of Moir.
I can't see Binns or Carroll giving us less match influence than Fantasia, I don't understand our selection at the moment, there are obviously skills, tasks and strategies we can't see.
Maybe Fantasia is living on the fact he is not making any mistakes, but it is probably because you actually have to do something to make an error! Not sure how long he can survive while directing traffic.
Martin is a 3rd tall in our forward line with no JSOS down there and is a marking target as well as a creative ground player.
Orazio and Durdin are traditional small forwards only so different players to Martin imho and not competing for the same position. I think Martin also makes life easier for Charlie and Harry as that alternative target.
The player being missed is Fogarty who provides the extra pressure you need as the modern forward.
Playing both Orazio and Durdin in the same team doesn't work....
Carroll played Fantasia's role against Geelong. Had 7 touches and was dropped.
The high half forward role is a tough gig. A lot of hard running for little reward as you're in no man's land.
Cottrell isn't getting the numbers he used to, he's not out of form just playing a role where kicks are harder to come by.
What does Zac Williams bring to the team?
Can't be trusted one on one and he's not providing much rebound.
Not sure what you expect from Fantasia. We only had 38 inside 50s and had 12 goals from it which is a good return.
Say you swap Martin for Fantasia last week. Jack might kick 2 but Owies might only get 1. Jack might be too gassed to chase his man meaning others have to leave theirs. Collingwood score more.
Not everyone forward is going to get lots of the ball and kick goals.
We didn't lose because of Orazio.
We lost because Collingwood had a plan.
They blocked Cripps at every stoppage. They showed this on the Sunday footy show.
David King showed how they dragged Weitering out of the play. Even showed him being held on the ground for just long enough do he couldn't get back to help his defenders.
And some critical umpiring decisions helped their cause as did an uncharacteristic lapse by Sam Walsh.
I wouldn’t rely too much on David King’s analysis. He does tend to take an isolated incident or two and concoct a convincing scenario. If we had won, he would have shown footage of our “tactics”.
The only criticism I have of Fantasia is for missing that shot at goal. He doesn’t get many opportunities and he should make the most of every one. Apart from that, he works hard, gets back in defence and makes his opponent accountable.
I would tend to agree DJC. The idea that stopping Cripps goes a long way to stopping Carlton is hardly new. Collingwood didn’t discover anything new. Cripps has been blocked, tagged and scragged his whole career. For whatever reason, we weren’t able to do anything about it. The coaches’ votes make pretty clear that apart from Nick Daicos, no player on either team had a particularly great game.
Nup. That kick from Harry was aimed at one of the small forwards and they didn't even go for it. Eight games in, I've seen enough. Time to $#@! Off the passengers.
Martin is a 3rd tall in our forward line with no JSOS down there and is a marking target as well as a creative ground player.
Orazio and Durdin are traditional small forwards only so different players to Martin imho and not competing for the same position. I think Martin also makes life easier for Charlie and Harry as that alternative target.
The player being missed is Fogarty who provides the extra pressure you need as the modern forward.
Playing both Orazio and Durdin in the same team doesn't work....
"The player being missed is Fogarty who provides the extra pressure you need as the modern forward."
Correct!! He provides what others fail to produce. Get Fogarty and Martin back into the forward line (as we had at the end of last year) and watch the ripple effect take place.
For me, Kemp comes in and gets first shot at Fritsch. He's got pace to go with him and match him in the air.
If McGovern and Martin pass fitness tests, play them. We might need one of the ruckmen pushing back when Gawn goes forward so Martin offers some marking ability forward. Martin isn't and has never been a high possession player......but surely offers more than Fantasia at the moment. But one more soft tissue injury this season for him and that's just about it.
IN: McGovern, Martin, Kemp
OUT: Young, Williams, Fantasia
I think Cincotta stays in.
Young just looks completely lost out there at the moment and is a panic merchant when he gets the ball. Williams was good early in the season with his kicking and run, but last week I lost count of how many panic dump kicks he did out of defence.
And one of Carroll or Binns as the sub.
At the ground, I saw Fantasia working back to cover Steele Sidebottom and giving Cotters a chop out.
Hes not amazing, but him and Durds were both getting up the ground a significant way. Owies I like, hes dangerous. The problem we had was probably more to do with our forward entries and where the ball was being put, rather than where the guys were and werent getting to. So many times, the ball was being rebounded, because we kicked to a contest where we were outnumbered. The collingwood backs were working up and down the ground all day, and they had 2 additional days break to do so.
I don't really get the criticism of Lewis Young. He might provide a few heart in mouth moments but I thought that he defended very well against Collingwood and did the job on Cox and Cameron when they went forward.
Only two of Young's eight marks were contested but he led the way for us with nine 1%ers and only Nic Newman had more intercepts. On top of that, he only had one turnover for the game, not bad for a "panic merchant".
I imagine that Weitering will take Van Rooyen and we'll need another tall KPD to go with Petty and Gawn when he goes forward.
I wouldn't play Kemp on Fritsch. Fritsch is too elusive and would exploit Kemp when he provides the extra at marking contests.
I would tend to agree DJC. The idea that stopping Cripps goes a long way to stopping Carlton is hardly new. Collingwood didn’t discover anything new. Cripps has been blocked, tagged and scragged his whole career. For whatever reason, we weren’t able to do anything about it. The coaches’ votes make pretty clear that apart from Nick Daicos, no player on either team had a particularly great game.
Just for something different....
Stop Cripps.
Stop Carlton.
OK, maybe.
What do we do when Cripps is getting beaten? Send him forward.
However, we already have Charlie, Harry and now TDK forward....can we afford to have Cripps there as well? Probably not.
So who is the weak link in that chain?
Yep, going back to the 1 ruck debate.
1 less ruck in the team means an extra midfielder and more flexibility/versatility with making moves.
I've been against it, but maybe its time to try TDK as a key back? We have extra talls good enough to play 1's, but running out of spots to play them all.....yet we have a big opening at CHB that we can't nail down. Why not TDK?
Just for something different....
Stop Cripps.
Stop Carlton.
OK, maybe.
What do we do when Cripps is getting beaten? Send him forward.
However, we already have Charlie, Harry and now TDK forward....can we afford to have Cripps there as well? Probably not.
So who is the weak link in that chain?
Yep, going back to the 1 ruck debate.
1 less ruck in the team means an extra midfielder and more flexibility/versatility with making moves.
I've been against it, but maybe its time to try TDK as a key back? We have extra talls good enough to play 1's, but running out of spots to play them all.....yet we have a big opening at CHB that we can't nail down. Why not TDK?
We have been sending Cripps forward, and quite effectively too.
It really shouldn’t matter if the opposition sets out to limit Crippa’s influence. Our other mids, and rucks, should take up the slack and allow him to play a little more as an outside mid. His work as a link up player is invaluable and he can do that without having to get first hands to the ball at every contest.
It would be nice to see our rucks and other mids putting more pressure on Crippa’s opponents too.
The skipper is a big fan of the two rucks and I don’t think that he’d accept that one quieter game from him is any reason to change.
We have been sending Cripps forward, and quite effectively too.
It really shouldn’t matter if the opposition sets out to limit Crippa’s influence. Our other mids, and rucks, should take up the slack and allow him to play a little more as an outside mid. His work as a link up player is invaluable and he can do that without having to get first hands to the ball at every contest.
It would be nice to see our rucks and other mids putting more pressure on Crippa’s opponents too.
The skipper is a big fan of the two rucks and I don’t think that he’d accept that one quieter game from him is any reason to change.
Skipper is a big fan of having Pitto to rove too.....not necesarily 2 rucks.
It would be interesting to compare the Mason Cox / Darcy Cameron combo with Pittonet / De Koning. Cox and Cameron each played 19 games last year, so they were at the coalface for most of the season. I don't know how many of them were together.
once again we need to make Lever /may accountable dont let them zone off take easy marks with the stupid long bombs ,How smart are our Fwd line players.
once again we need to make Lever /may accountable dont let them zone off take easy marks with the stupid long bombs ,How smart are our Fwd line players.
In Jordan Russell, we trust! :)
once again we need to make Lever /may accountable dont let them zone off take easy marks with the stupid long bombs ,How smart are our Fwd line players.
It’s not the long bombs that they zone off on. It’s virtually every delivery into the forward line. And if they’re not zoning off, they’re double teaming our leading forwards.
Playing three tall forwards makes Lever play on an opponent. I’m more than happy for him play as a loose man and leave De Koning et al to do as they like.
We do need our small forwards to work harder at blocking the defenders’ run and crumbing halved marking contests.
What hurt Cripps last game was making Kennedy sub, because Cerra and Walsh largely played an outside run type game, and Hewett was tagging. Cripps got no chop out and the Filth knew he was the only Mid working predictably on the inside. As he fatigued he got the fumbles, and that just made the situation worse.
When Kennedy came on he replaced a forward, they should have put Kennedy into the Midfield and let Cerra rest forward to turn the heat back onto the Filth and make them think twice about who the double team.
Even when Cripps draws 2 or 3 opponents leaving us with extra numbers, in recent weeks we haven't gain an advantage because our ball use has been poor.
We need to get back to being brutal in the midfield, that means no respite for opposition Mids or Rucks, pound them into the ground with wave after wave of heavy hitters, no B-Graders. Put a dud in the Mid rotation, or the ruck, and you give the opponents a rest period that costs us momentum! We have to keep the opposition eternally running up hill, because we aren't fast enough for a flat surface foot race no matter what our MC does at selection!
What hurt Cripps last game was making Kennedy sub, because Cerra and Walsh largely played an outside run type game, and Hewett was tagging. Cripps got no chop out and the Filth knew he was the only Mid working predictably on the inside.
When Kennedy came on he replaced a forward, they should have put Kennedy into the Midfield and let Cerra rest forward to turn the heat back onto the Filth and make them think twice about who the double team.
Even when Cripps draws 2 or 3 opponents leaving us with extra numbers, in recent weeks we haven't gain an advantage because our ball use has been poor.
Yes, having Chugga in the midfield mix usually means Cripps will play well.
Yes, having Chugga in the midfield mix usually means Cripps will play well.
Even Walsh resting forward would be a plus over the current SFs, I've no doubt Walsh will get front and square at the feet of the pack without hesitation, and despite some patchy form nobody is out marking Charlie or BigH.
Voss knows our strengths, he just mentioned the "Effort in the collective", it's no good hoping for stuff we haven't got, there are plenty of ways to skin a cat.
My only concern is that he mentioned forwards and defenders but not the mid.
ZW should be on the trade table along with a pick. Maybe Bulldogs are stupid enough to bite considering they paid 3rd round for Coffield. Injury prone players with a long history are an avoid.
It is no secret the club needs to rebuild its depth because time is approaching fast to rest senior players periodically. But we havent got any 200 game 30 year olds yet.
Not even the WB are that stupid.
Not even the WB are that stupid.
They recruited Lobb.....
In Gov Kemp Ollie Martin
Out Fantasia Cunners Young all omitted Williams Glute/Hurt Feelings
Good changes.
I would've liked to keep Cunners in the side, but i can't complain about the ins.
The outs are good too.
Sub to come from....
Durdin, Boyd, Hewett, Cerra, Cottrell.
I'd go Durdin personally.
In Gov Kemp Ollie Martin
Out Fantasia Cunners Young all omitted Williams Glute/Hurt Feelings
That's better. Much better.
That's better. Much better.
When I picked my side, I didn't think Jack would get up. Rapt he has.
Sub comes from here.....
Interchange:
Jordan Boyd
Adam Cerra
Matthew Cottrell
Corey Durdin
George Hewett
Sub comes from here.....
Interchange:
Jordan Boyd
Adam Cerra
Matthew Cottrell
Corey Durdin
George Hewett
Can only be Durdin as far as I'm concerned. MC have been uncharacteristically smart this week. What goes on?
Don't believe all those ins.
This week's line-up:
B: [17] Brodie Kemp, [23] Jacob Weitering, [2] Lachlan Cowan
HB: [39] Alex Cincotta, [11] Mitch McGovern, [24] Nic Newman
C: [4] Oliver Hollands, [9] Patrick Cripps, [13] Blake Acres
HF: [21] Jack Martin, [10] Harry McKay, [20] Elijah Hollands
F: [44] Matthew Owies, [30] Charlie Curnow, [12] Tom De Koning
R: [27] Marc Pittonet, [18] Sam Walsh, [7] Matthew Kennedy
Int: [37] Jordan Boyd, [5] Adam Cerra, [46] Matthew Cottrell, [29] George Hewett, [19] Corey Durdin
Em: [28] David Cuningham, [33] Lewis Young, [14] Orazio Fantasia
My thoughts:
[1] Ollie Hollands is very lucky to be there. Extremely lucky. I would have preferred Binns: he is getting 25 - 30 possessions each week.
[2] Cuningham is a little unlucky to be dropped, considering that it was his first game back. Also, his disposal and decision making was a step from what some of the others were doing.
[3] Young wasn't our worst last week, but what killed him was his lack of attack on the ball on the ground. In the air he wasn't that bad, but on the ground he let Collingwood players in a number of times because they wanted the ball more.
There has been a lot of comment about Young, some of it he deserves, some he does not. He has his strengths, and they are in the air. Also, he didn't turn the ball over that much. But his ground player cost us last week.
[4] Fantasia shouldn't get back into the team until he starts kicking goals, and not just one per game. He might be working hard defensively, but that's not why he is in the team. Getting less than 8 possessions and no goals just isn't something we can maintain.
[5] Our defence looks quite flexible, which isn't always the case. McGovern and Kemp are good 'ins', as they can attack as well as defend. Cincotta really did a job well last week, even though he didn't get a lot of ball. I'd like to see him confident enough to run off guys as well as shutting them down.
[6] Martin is a big 'in' as well. He can do things the other small forwards can't.
4 changes for the 2nd consecutive week I believe. A considerable adjustment is required, and didn’t quite work last week.
We'll need to be switched on and from the get go. We can't afford Dees getting a run of goals. Their strong defence will have our 2 big boys covered. So we'll need to get creative i50
Go Blues
WIth no Doc/JSOS available, this is almost our best 23 with probably Motlop and Fogarty as the only ones to come in....and maybe Williams if in form. If Marchbank could stay on the park I could see him being the second key defender.
On paper, both teams look very evenly matched. We've probably got the two better key forwards, but they've got arguably the best key defender combo in the game. Midfields are probably pretty even although Gawn probably gives them a slight edge...but we have two ruckmen compared to Gawn and Van Rooyen as backup.
I don't really get the criticism of Lewis Young. He might provide a few heart in mouth moments but I thought that he defended very well against Collingwood and did the job on Cox and Cameron when they went forward.
Only two of Young's eight marks were contested but he led the way for us with nine 1%ers and only Nic Newman had more intercepts. On top of that, he only had one turnover for the game, not bad for a "panic merchant".
I imagine that Weitering will take Van Rooyen and we'll need another tall KPD to go with Petty and Gawn when he goes forward.
I wouldn't play Kemp on Fritsch. Fritsch is too elusive and would exploit Kemp when he provides the extra at marking contests.
I reckon Weitering will have to take Petty given the latter is a lot bigger than Kemp or McGovern....a player who has given Melbourne a different look up forward is ex defender Turner who is 194cm. There might have been a case to keep Young in the team this week for the extra height. Petracca when resting forward will also need a minder and with Fritsch and Pickett also in attendance its going to be a busy night in defense if they get enough supply.
One of TDK or Pittonet might have to follow Gawn down forward if and when he plays there....
WIth no Doc/JSOS available, this is almost our best 23 with probably Motlop and Fogarty as the only ones to come in....and maybe Williams if in form. If Marchbank could stay on the park I could see him being the second key defender.
On paper, both teams look very evenly matched. We've probably got the two better key forwards, but they've got arguably the best key defender combo in the game. Midfields are probably pretty even although Gawn probably gives them a slight edge...but we have two ruckmen compared to Gawn and Van Rooyen as backup.
You've forgotten about another bloke who could be useful right about now in Saad! Will be good to get him back
Whichever midfield wins their team wins this week.
Both teams have firepower in their respective 50 and so F50 entries this week is massive . Get it in there more then them and we should be able to score more and win this week. Sounds simplistic i know but i think the midfield is where this game will be won or lost.
Points for:
Carlton: 3rd
Melbourne: 10th
Points against:
Carlton: 15th
Melbourne: 1st
That's a lot of changes on top of Martin not having played much footy in recent times, we shouldn't expect much first game back but we can hope to be surprised. For me it's the 1st step of getting things in shape for the second half of the season.
Personally, I'll be happy to see Martin and McGovern get through unscathed.
That's a lot of changes on top of Martin not having played much footy in recent times, we shouldn't expect much first game back but we can hope to be surprised. For me it's the 1st step of getting things in shape for the second half of the season.
Personally, I'll be happy to see Martin and McGovern get through unscathed.
Yep. I wouldn't be expecting to win in the next two weeks.
Yep. I wouldn't be expecting to win in the next two weeks.
We have a list that can sneak wins against good opponents, it would have been nice to sneak one extra over the last few weeks of injury outs.
But expecting wins is a bit over the top, especially when a 1/4 of the team on the day are 1st or 2nd season types, that's hard enough without carrying some older types who are out of form. The group needs contiguous football to click into shape.
Points for:
Carlton: 3rd
Melbourne: 10th
Points against:
Carlton: 15th
Melbourne: 1st
How are we 'horribly out of form' while they are in good form ??
Because Goodwin can sell ice to eskimos
How are we 'horribly out of form' while they are in good form ??
Because they are winning (last 4 games) and we've lost 3 of our last 4. I'm not a huge stats fan, my favourite stat is the scoreboard.
This'll be a fascinating contest. Looking forward to it. Something of a 'line in the sand' game for us.
Good changes.
I would've liked to keep Cunners in the side, but i can't complain about the ins.
The outs are good too.
Sub to come from....
Durdin, Boyd, Hewett, Cerra, Cottrell.
I'd go Durdin personally.
Yep, you'd reckon Durdin... but I wonder if it'll be Hewett or Cerra...
How are we 'horribly out of form' while they are in good form ??
I’m not sure that we’re out of form but we’re not playing our best footy for four quarters.
Of the teams in the eight, Melbourne’s defence is the most miserly. Our defence has conceded the most points, about 23 more than Melbourne each game.
We have kicked the third highest point score of the teams in the eight. Melbourne is one three teams in the eight that have scored around 650 points. That’s around 15 points per game less than us.
Part of that comes down to gamestyle but Melbourne’s defence is working much better than our unsettled, injury depleted defence. At the other end of the ground, our very inefficient forward line is scoring more heavily than Melbourne’s cobbled together forward line that relies heavily on small and medium forwards.
Our defence worked much better with McGovern in the mix (including when Weitering was out). Given Melbourne’s lack of forward line firepower, can a returning McGovern improve our ability to generate scores from defence?
Our forwards will be under the pump with Melbourne’s in form defenders. However, the addition of De Koning and the return of Martin should make for a more potent forward line that restricts the ability of Melbourne’s defenders to zone off and double team.
We haven’t been able to apply scoreboard pressure and, unlike the second half of last season, our ability to win close games isn’t as good. If we’re going to win this one, we have start well and build a decent lead to keep Melbourne’s defence under pressure.
My bad Rocky....yeah missed the obvious one in Saad. Hopefully he's only a few more weeks away but we need to win a couple before then otherwise we might be down the ladder a bit and just fighting to make the 8.
I thought Ollie Hollands for the sub tonight. Cottrell might get the job on Langdon on one wing with Acres on the other.
I thought Ollie Hollands for the sub tonight. Cottrell might get the job on Langdon on one wing with Acres on the other.
Logical, but he's named in the starting 22.
Because they are winning (last 4 games) and we've lost 3 of our last 4. I'm not a huge stats fan, my favourite stat is the scoreboard.
This'll be a fascinating contest. Looking forward to it. Something of a 'line in the sand' game for us.
Time to get rolling like we did second half of last year. Fear no one and mow them down one by one.
Time to get rolling like we did second half of last year. Fear no one and mow them down one by one.
I think this is basically true, but I'd have another spin on it.
Fearing opponents is OK as it is a sign of respect, a little bit of fear is OK in this regard because it promotes thoroughness. But have confidence and trust in yourself, so that you remove hesitation and doubt.
We look slow at times because we hesitate, we have to trust each other and act on trust, and if someone isn't acting on that trust and respecting the trust the team has for them that becomes a job for coaches. To me that is what Voss implies when he talks about a collective.
(SciFi nerds will know of The Borg and the concept of a Hive Mind acting as one.)
If "all" our forwards make leads/get out in the open through the game and those leads are honoured, we stand a good chance. If we continue to bomb the ball into forward line, long odds for a win.
Ab
OK, so it's gameday. For me the key is Gawn. Has to be the number one target for us to nullify. I'd be reviewing the tape when Sydney played them and use the same tactics Grundy did way back then. Pitt doesn't have to get off the ground just use his bulk. Work him over as much as possible. I mean really work him over (legally). Intersperse that with the TDK leaping over the top of him and really finish him off.
Crucial we get that right tonight for any chance of a win.
The Dees are a strong list, put too much focus on any one player and you let the others off the hook.
I think last time we played them we made life too easy for May and Lever, they nearly won the game for the Dees, except if I recall one uncharacteristic stuff up. Of course I think we had McKay out last time we played. (Ignoring pre-season rubbish.)
I thought Ollie Hollands for the sub tonight. Cottrell might get the job on Langdon on one wing with Acres on the other.
Agree....Ollie is very loose and lets his man play off him too much, you cant do that vs Langdon or even the new kid Windsor who is a goalkicker. Id rather see a tight game like when we played Melbourne last time than a free for all up and down the ground high scoring game. Make every contest tough and frustrate Oliver, Gawn etc who dont like physical attention...Id be wanting Pittonet just to go at Gawn all the time and forget about tapouts etc and Id have Hewett shadowing Oliver everywhere he goes.
Petracca, Fritsch, May and Lever will have some impact and thats to be expected but as long as our key players like Cripps, Walsh, Charlie, Harry etc are doing the same I think we will win the game.
Blues by 11 points...
Yep, you'd reckon Durdin... but I wonder if it'll be Hewett or Cerra...
Hewett it is.
Hewett it is.
Of course it is, because its makes no sense. Its not like we need a defensive minded mid to play on superstar mids that the opposition has.....
oh wait.
*facepalm*
Of course it is, because its makes no sense. Its not like we need a defensive minded mid to play on superstar mids that the opposition has.....
oh wait.
*facepalm*
Well, at the risk of seeming like a smarty pants, I suspected Hewett or Cerra. Balance. Plus Hewett was a little slow last week and would be a good replacement for a tired (or injured) mid when some of the early heat has gone out of the game.
We did this last year. It didn't work.
I wonder if the MC is worried one of our defenders might be underdone / lacking match fitness / slight injury cloud etc., and they have planned accordingly ?
Hewett it is.
Dumb decision
Take it as read Paul.
Well, at the risk of seeming like a smarty pants, I suspected Hewett or Cerra. Balance. Plus Hewett was a little slow last week and would be a good replacement for a tired (or injured) mid when some of the early heat has gone out of the game.
Yep
There is a method in the madness.
Whether it comes off or not we'll see.
I'm guessing the thinking is that later in the game even the fittest of the Melbourne mids will tire to some extent bringing them back closer to Hewett in terms of pace.
His role might be to negate that 'late game' effectiveness.
Of course, the game may be over by then.
Blues by 30
(in the first quarter :D )
Take it as read Paul.
It seems a plausible reason IMO. From what I can tell, Voss is not a Teague / Ratten type coach. He doesn't appear to enjoy shoot out footy. Certainly he seemed pretty grumpy about the high scores we have been conceding recently, especially the Geelong game. There are a few plausible options for the sub, and you have to roll the dice and pick one.
Well, at the risk of seeming like a smarty pants, I suspected Hewett or Cerra. Balance. Plus Hewett was a little slow last week and would be a good replacement for a tired (or injured) mid when some of the early heat has gone out of the game.
Going back to what I was saying the other day...if someone is tired or injured, rest them.
Keep cunners in the side.