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Topic: AFL Rd 4 2022 Post Game Permutations Carlton vs Gold Coast (Read 4935 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: AFL Rd 4 2022 Post Game Permutations Carlton vs Gold Coast

Reply #30 –
Just a few meandering thoughts.

When our midfield has favourable access/supply (ruck) removed, and when under those circumstances the aggot hits the grass, we (too easily) lose fight, connection and composure. That, combined with our seemingly inherent folding under intense opposition attention and pressure (being hunted) gives us what we're seeing.

Our % is 11th.  Some pundits say % is a very good indicator of where your club is really at.

Although 'next man up' is an important mantra, the abilities of that 'next man' are critical.

Yes, 'doing your job' is a well established reality for success. But there is also how well you do your job and what more you can do. And on this our past sure did revisit us... player X may have done his job, just, but in effect he was still a passenger.

I have absolutely no doubt we have the personnel but a reality is that our injury list is longer than most. Too many authoritative and influential players are missing.

Our midfield yesterday was very un-Voss like. Timid, fumbly and reactive. Opponents will dine on this brittleness. We sure are a WIP, with plenty to work on.



Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17

Re: AFL Rd 4 2022 Post Game Permutations Carlton vs Gold Coast

Reply #31 –
Just about everything that could go wrong did go wrong -
* lose Crippa, and cop two broken noses
* both Charlie and Harry (who barely missed a shot for the first three weeks) lost their radar on the two big sticks.  Charlie's kicking for goal was abysmal.
* 2 undisciplined 50s gifted them easy goals to start the third Q when we were still in the game
* once the dew came in, we couldn't hold on to the ball
* we need far more run out of the backline - other than Saad, we are statues who get stuck trying to get it past the wings.  Lachie Weller carved us up going the other way.  This is where McGovern has made a difference this year.
* the Suns' mids were far more hungry than our group - many of their clearances came off the back of pack-based wrestles, and we were out-wrestled big time
* it was just one of those days - every flying kick, every strange bounce, seemed to land in the hands of the Suns.  You can put it down to bad luck, but in reality, we were simply out-worked.
* one very frustrating thing, after the umpires were red-hot on incorrect disposal in the first 3 weeks, they seemed to go ultra-soft in this game.  I lost count of the number of times Anderson/Rowell/Miller did not dispose correctly and play on was the call.  It contributed significantly to their clearance numbers.

Most significantly, the passengers in the side got badly found out, and some of the clangers were so bad I could not believe what I was seeing.

Hopefully there are some serious lessons here, but I would like to think we can't collectively be as bad as that again.

This is now the longest premiership drought in the history of the Carlton Football Club - more evidence of climate change?

Re: AFL Rd 4 2022 Post Game Permutations Carlton vs Gold Coast

Reply #32 –
Quote from: tonyo on
* one very frustrating thing, after the umpires were red-hot on incorrect disposal in the first 3 weeks, they seemed to go ultra-soft in this game.  I lost count of the number of times Anderson/Rowell/Miller did not dispose correctly and play on was the call.  It contributed significantly to their clearance numbers.
Yep, the impact of the way the AFL directs umpires to interpret or focus on certain rules has a huge impact. In the first few weeks we would have won lots of frees for effective tackles, yesterday it was play on and I don't get why we see such a change. It's like the umpires wound back the clock, maybe that new interpretation has been given the kybosh!

But this is the fundamental problem with those rules, they don't fix anything, they just change the interpretation which will forever remain variable. Scott(AFL) will claim the interpretation of the rule is being "refined" as players and umpires gain more "experience" under the current playing conditions. But it looked to me like it was back to the future. Should we be surprised, Scott(Geelong) has been one of the major critics which I find bizarre, because if he was prepared to change his game plan the rule actually suits Dad's Army just like it suited our own slower midfield! Just shows how fixed in their ways AFL coaches can be.

Another bizarre one was there were several occasions when GC player's basically tossed the ball in the air when tackled and then punched it, that's incorrect disposal and not one of them got pinged for doing it!

I felt we were too focussed on Levi, and I warned pre-match we didn't have a good match up for Chol which was dismissed by many, and along with Witts he's probably ends up amongst the BoG. For me the ideal player to take on Chol would have been Kemp, and Kemp would have also added some extra run. Fogarty for Pitto was a huge mistake, maybe we were hoping or expecting the rain.
The Force Awakens!

Re: AFL Rd 4 2022 Post Game Permutations Carlton vs Gold Coast

Reply #33 –
Chol is a big unit, Kemp isn't ready for a player his size.
Losing Jones came back to bite us, Young is handy but still learning the game and I saw Chol out muscle him a couple of times.

Re: AFL Rd 4 2022 Post Game Permutations Carlton vs Gold Coast

Reply #34 –
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 on
Chol is a big unit, Kemp isn't ready for a player his size.
Losing Jones came back to bite us, Young is handy but still learning the game and I saw Chol out muscle him a couple of times.
Regardless, no use making excuses about what would not have worked after the fact when what we went in with was already deficient.

We might not have had someone to go with Chol body on body, in fact we don't, but we didn't have some capable of matching him on or across the ground either in Gov's absence.

At least Kemp could have run off him and made him more accountable, play the intercept role, but yesterday Chol had so much free range people were calling him Ingham's!
The Force Awakens!

Re: AFL Rd 4 2022 Post Game Permutations Carlton vs Gold Coast

Reply #35 –
Quote from: LP on
Regardless, no use making excuses about what would not have worked after the fact when what we went in with was already deficient.

We might not have had someone to go with Chol body on body, in fact we don't, but we didn't have some capable of matching him on or across the ground either in Gov's absence.

At least Kemp could have run off him and made him more accountable, play the intercept role, but yesterday Chol had so much free range people were calling him Ingham's!
They had control of the midfield and we needed a more seasoned Key Defender imo and not more running types.
Given Levi isn't really a push and shove player we might have been better switching Weitering and Young.
This was Jones forte being able to play on the bigger KP types and both defend and run off. Young is a decent enough player but needs more games and experience.

Re: AFL Rd 4 2022 Post Game Permutations Carlton vs Gold Coast

Reply #36 –
Clearly McGovern and OMac are miles ahead of Young and Plowman.

Dekoning is not ready to ruck full time, probably 3 years away.

2012 HAPPENED!!!!!!!

Re: AFL Rd 4 2022 Post Game Permutations Carlton vs Gold Coast

Reply #37 –
I think there are many ways to address this problem, given we had no Gov we should have been cutting off supply or forcing Chol further up the ground, you do not have to defeat a player one on one to curtail their influence. Chol got his three goals, but the chaos he created around the fall of the ball inside F50 probably cost us another 3 or 4.

FWIW, I think we failed to run off Levi as well, and De Koning failed to run off Witts, we had advantages that we failed to make use of. For years as Carlton fans we watch opponents dragging Levi up past the Wing or even to the HBF leaving him ineffective as a KPF, yet we failed to do the very same.
The Force Awakens!

Re: AFL Rd 4 2022 Post Game Permutations Carlton vs Gold Coast

Reply #38 –
Quote from: madbluboy on
Clearly McGovern and OMac are miles ahead of Young and Plowman.

Dekoning is not ready to ruck full time, probably 3 years away.
In the first 3 rounds, if De Koning or Pitto stood their ground and defended the fall of the ball at the centre bounce they were getting pinged for blocking, Witts did it multiple times yesterday as De Koning tried to jump over him, especially more so after Witts started limping, and Witts wasn't penalised once.

I'm not saying it would have made a difference, but it's a contributing reason why De Koning's form has tailed off. The kid has to be confused about what he can and cannot do!

In particular, there might be one or two umpires in the AFL that use handing out that blocking free to cover for a shizen bounce! More experienced rucks will leverage that knowledge, but it shouldn't really be the case.
The Force Awakens!

Re: AFL Rd 4 2022 Post Game Permutations Carlton vs Gold Coast

Reply #39 –
Fisher had a Barry Crocker yesterday, Kennedy and LoB had a few fumbles as well, the all ran hard but when they needed to be clean they panicked and it can be demoralising for those around them. I give them credit for doing the work to get near the footy, often first to the footy, but you can't surrender it like that so often like that and still get a pat on the back.

Selecting Fogarty was just a mistake, I didn't expect anything based I what I saw earlier and he delivered to expectation, so we should not be shocked or upset. We can't have Fisher, Fogarty and Boyd all in one team and play a contested ball winning game style. They just do not have enough pace to gain an advantage on the outside, especially when Walsh also appears to be struggling given an interrupted pre-season.

Some fans are dirty on Martin, and no doubt he doesn't get enough of the footy, but he does deliver a different set of skills when he's competing overhead. However, if we play Pitto and De Koning, allowing SoJ to play forward, then I think Martin is a duplication of the SoJ forward play and as a result is redundant.

I thought given the barrage of football coming into our D50 the core defensive setup was OK. None of them failed but they will always be pretty powerless when continually outnumbered given an opponent gets so many deep and easy entries. My only criticism was that our D50 did not attack enough, perhaps that was more plan to keep De Koning rucking longer and not have to push so deep into D50.

When Cripps got injured, given Kennedy was having an ordinary day and Cerra was quiet, should we have given Setterfield a midfield run? Setterfield's certainly been covering the ground so he must be midfield fit.
The Force Awakens!

Re: AFL Rd 4 2022 Post Game Permutations Carlton vs Gold Coast

Reply #40 –
Quote from: JonDorotich on
Agreed.  We desperately missed McGovern’s closing speed and distribution.

Kennedy was also woeful today and if he wants to be taken seriously his best and worst can’t be that far apart.

Our work rate and positioning on transition wasn’t up to it again, so Voss has got his work cut out.
As I said, even in the 1st-Qtr against the Dawks we looked flat, for a team on a roll we were labouring across the ground.

The consistency is really the trick, making sure the lows aren't too low.
The Force Awakens!

Re: AFL Rd 4 2022 Post Game Permutations Carlton vs Gold Coast

Reply #41 –
Observations.

We over possessed the aggot at times.

We continued trying to hit up a forward against the best defender on the day (Collins) rather than actually try and pick our way through an opposition defense.

Charlie and Mckay need to stop playing from behind so much.

Our mids actually did ok, but failing to capitalise on momentum in the middle part of the game (2nd and 3rd quarters) when we had it was really problematic.  Particularly Charlie and Harry missing key set shots.

There were some real face palm moments, and it appears as though the Suns used the tactic hawthorn did last week to beat us (big X for the coaching panel there).

Touk Miller probably reserves his best footy against us, which is quite telling of where we are at.  Not sure why you would go with Boyd over Dow as the medi sub, but Boyd is still very much an enigma.  He was better this week, but still not really up to it and will be an also ran.  I suspect for Dow to be out of favour again, he is halfway out the door.

@LP Fisher, Boyd and Fogarty are quick enough.  The issues are that we have a lot of blokes wasting the footy and choosing harder options than keeping it simple.

Ironically, our captain has ironed out this factor from his game, and has gone up a level, and the rest are all trying to do too much.  An additional side step, a fend off, too cute with the kick, biting off more than they can chew, etc.

"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: AFL Rd 4 2022 Post Game Permutations Carlton vs Gold Coast

Reply #42 –
Only taken a month but Voss gets to see first hand the sh#t we're capable of serving up....and more often than not, against teams lower on the ladder than us and in games we should win...think back to the game against North late last year.

Apart from the opening minute or so, it was another one of those Carlton games where, 10 minutes in, you could just see we weren't on at all. Back to the fumbling, poor skills, poor disposal. They have so many ordinary types who were just carving us up and running around unchecked in the forward line. Most of our best players were defenders, but who was on Rosas....kid has played about half a dozen games and made us look silly.

I'm a huge fan of the way Pittonet plays for us and it showed how important he is to us and the structure. TDK is a totally different sort of player and won a few taps but gets pushed off the ball too easily and isn't having any impact around the ground.

I've been one to defend Plowman at stages but he surely can't stay in that team....he's just a dumb footballer! The spoil on Kennedy when trying to mark was the "pinnacle" yesterday.

Setterfield might've got 20 possessions but mostly ineffective IMO. Similary, Fisher is another who hasn't really fired a shot this year and needs as a spell in the VFL.

Losing Cripps would've hurt but our contested ball and other 4 mids have been a highlight this year.....but not yesterday. Thrashed by Rowell, Anderson, Miller, Weller etc. Hewett was good but Kennedy hardly sighted and probably one of Walsh's poorer games...but hard to be critical of him given what he's done since his very first game.

Gone was the pressure, tackling and chasing that were a highlight in the first 3 games. Obvious question, but did they rock up just expecting to win? Would've thought we've been so sh#t in recent years that we don't get that luxury.

Hopefully Pittonet and Durdin are right to go next week.....they'll be in along with probably Stocker, Kemp, Dow. Outs will be Cripps for sure and likely Fogarty, Plowman, Setterfield and Fisher. I think Owies stays....he was poor yesterday but his role alongside Durdin has been good this year so deserves another chance.

Re: AFL Rd 4 2022 Post Game Permutations Carlton vs Gold Coast

Reply #43 –
Too many skill errors, poor decisions and lack of hunger. Watched the game again and midfield was comprehensively smashed.

It looked like an off day rather than the norm IMO. Some backsides need to be kicked but nothing radical based on one game. Like to see some changes, few players have been under performing since round one and give some boys in VFL that have been playing well a chance to shine. Dow, Kemp, Stocker, Parks.. Philp needs another week.

Re: AFL Rd 4 2022 Post Game Permutations Carlton vs Gold Coast

Reply #44 –
What's going on with Sam Walsh?

He looks half the player he was last year.
This is now the longest premiership drought in the history of the Carlton Football Club - more evidence of climate change?