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Development and Recruiting

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/identifying-carltons-no1-problem-20130712-2pvq3.html

This articcle in today's Age does give good comments in relation to our on-field plight in many ways... and wholeheartedly supports Ye Sheikness in declaring in one of his summaries that we have no A graders ...yet we should have loads.

Before we venture to the draft again, we really need to examine our development and recruiting and address why our 1st rounders aren't delivering on potential and our propensity to recruit nuffs.

(Yes, I realise on the old website we covered a lot of this and there are have been threads dealing with this huge issue, but maybe now lets really hone in and focus on this... as is the media)
Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17

Re: Development and Recruiting

Reply #1
People have short memories. Malthouse has conned everyone - two weeks ago Walker was AA now we have no one. Murphy is an A grader, he's had injury issues but he'll come good. As Kreuzer said himself, the start of his career was excellent, he's struggling to deal with knees and hips. Waite kicked 7 goals less than a month ago. Carrots is the best one on one mid in the game but again injury worries. Opposition teams have stated they put lots of time thinking about how to stop Yarran.

screw me, we went from a team missing a key forward and a poor bottom six to nothing decent in no time.

Re: Development and Recruiting

Reply #2
People have short memories. Malthouse has conned everyone - two weeks ago Walker was AA now we have no one. Murphy is an A grader, he's had injury issues but he'll come good. As Kreuzer said himself, the start of his career was excellent, he's struggling to deal with knees and hips. Waite kicked 7 goals less than a month ago. Carrots is the best one on one mid in the game but again injury worries. Opposition teams have stated they put lots of time thinking about how to stop Yarran.

screw me, we went from a team missing a key forward and a poor bottom six to nothing decent in no time.

So what are your thoughts on our development & recruiting? :)
Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17

Re: Development and Recruiting

Reply #3
As Kreuzer said himself, the start of his career was excellent, he's struggling to deal with knees and hips.

Just remember the club was well aware of K's bad hips at the time of drafting when a few "experts" said they would give him a miss because of it.

Re: Development and Recruiting

Reply #4
I don't think recruitment is the key issue, I'm more disappointed with development of some of our picks.

He makes a couple of obvious points but his credibility is pretty ordinary given his lack of ability to identify what a club needs to rebuild, develop etc.

Better read is Roos article in the picture paper. He says we could have traded early picks and may have won a premiership by now, but he goes on to say "to blame the recruiting dept is a cop-out. On the list of current problems recruiting is a long way down."  He's basically saying that the over conservative game plan is stalling the team, and lists other issues that need addressing on field.
Excuses year 1, blame year 2, contract extention year 3........

Re: Development and Recruiting

Reply #5
People have short memories. Malthouse has conned everyone - two weeks ago Walker was AA now we have no one. Murphy is an A grader, he's had injury issues but he'll come good. As Kreuzer said himself, the start of his career was excellent, he's struggling to deal with knees and hips. Waite kicked 7 goals less than a month ago. Carrots is the best one on one mid in the game but again injury worries. Opposition teams have stated they put lots of time thinking about how to stop Yarran.

screw me, we went from a team missing a key forward and a poor bottom six to nothing decent in no time.

So what are your thoughts on our development & recruiting? :)

Shizen* but to say we have absolutely zero A grade talent at our club is rubbish.

I forgot to a small forwards who is in the best two or three small forwards in the competition and a defender who also was talked about in AA form.

EDIT: *That's my gut feeling. I guess we'd have to look at how the rest of the competition is going against us to really understand where we sit. I don't agree with the sit on our hands strategy of trading and not getting involved in FA though.



Re: Blues' No 1 problem

Reply #8
http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/identifying-carltons-no1-problem-20130712-2pvq3.html

Paul, this article is already featured in the following thread..


http://www.carltonsc.com/index.php?topic=102.0

Thanks Big Jack - I had a quick scan of the forums prior to posting, but obviously it was too quick.

Re: Development and Recruiting

Reply #9
I don't think recruitment is the key issue, I'm more disappointed with development of some of our picks.

He makes a couple of obvious points but his credibility is pretty ordinary given his lack of ability to identify what a club needs to rebuild, develop etc.

Better read is Roos article in the picture paper. He says we could have traded early picks and may have won a premiership by now, but he goes on to say "to blame the recruiting dept is a cop-out. On the list of current problems recruiting is a long way down."  He's basically saying that the over conservative game plan is stalling the team, and lists other issues that need addressing on field.

Goat,

do you have a link for the Roos article ?

Re: Development and Recruiting

Reply #10

I read it in print this morning and wasn't online. Found it now in the subscription section of the small paper online.

HS 12/7/2013

WHILE no coach likes to lose, Carlton and Richmond's results would have especially stung their respective coaches last week.

After a defeat where nothing seemed to go right, the coach must be quick to collect his thoughts. The most dangerous period of the week - and, in fact, a coach's career - can be directly after a shock.

The walk from the coach's box to the changerooms is long and this time must be used to compose yourself and work through what you will say to the team.

Many thoughts are running through your head, including what the assistant coaches would have said during the game - mostly uncomplimentary - to the players.

However, I found the best course of action is to say nothing because there is often nothing positive to say.

All coaches know once you start to open your mouth it is hard to shut it and it is in these moments that relationships can be permanently broken. The other upside to saying nothing is it gives you breathing space to look at the game closely and have a much clearer picture of what went wrong.

Both coaches would be asking themselves if the result was an aberration or there were some worrying trends that need to be addressed.

Damien Hardwick could justify stamping the North Melbourne game "aberration", but not Mick Malthouse after the loss to Collingwood.

Carlton appears to have some serious problems. I had the Blues comfortably finishing in the eight and, if their best 22 was fit and available, as it has been for most of the year, pushing for top four.

Yet this week's discussion has centred on the Blues' list and its "many holes". How can a team that has had so many early draft picks claim to have a poor list?

Most of those players taken with early picks were rated extremely highly by all recruiters. Clearly the Blues have made some list management errors and, if they had traded some early picks, might have won a premiership by now.

However, to blame their recruiting department is a cop-out. On the list of current problems recruiting is a long way down.

The game against the Magpies again exposed a number of areas that have become a worry for Mick.

In the past four games, the Blues have punished just 16 per cent of opposition turnovers with a score, the second-lowest percentage of any team.

It would appear the Blues' down-the-line, conservative approach is stalling the team.

It is something Mick talked about earlier in the season and I'm sure it would have been a source of discussion this week among the coaching staff.

The Blues have trailed at three-quarter time on six occasions this season and have failed to finish in front in any of these games.

Is this a result of poor fitness or, again, because of the struggle the team is having with conservative ball use?

Carlton has the second-worst kicking efficiency in the defensive 50 this season, again, a worrying trend.

Mick must continue to work on the game plan and develop the list. There should be no talk of 2014 and trading until he can determine what this group can do.

I suspect the group is capable of much better than it has produced and that is the coach's test.

The Tigers, on the other hand, are competent in most areas - if not a standout - and that's why Damien would have looked at last week's game as something out of the ordinary.

Ironically, they had 73 tackles against North and this is their weakest area (54 average).

The Tigers have done a lot right this year and I will be looking closely to see how they bounce back today against Gold Coast, a team they have never beaten.
Excuses year 1, blame year 2, contract extention year 3........

Re: Development and Recruiting

Reply #11
Love the way Roosy thinks. Hard to argue with anything he wrote (that GOAT posted above).

And although Lyon is not in the same category as Roosy I still believe his comments re our 1st rounders deserves objective examination.

We do seem to not be as fit as other sides when the heat is on for the entire game, or, put another way, playing a top side.

We are too nice but when some of our blokes attempt to be tough, they do something dumb and get reported.

When top clubs lose a key player it doesn't seem to weaken them all that much... we lose someone important in a game and go to pieces.

Really seems that a good number of our supposed A graders just don't take the next step. When the chips are down it is still Juddy who attempts to pull us over the line... is there no other on-field leader at our club who can lift and inspire (in fact, the entire list should feel empowered enough to lead on the field!!!!!)?

With the exception of Casboult, our other ruckmen must be amongst the nicest in the competition.

IMHO, it comes down to on-field culture (or lack thereof) and too much ($$$$) comfort behind the scenes, ie Assistant coaches not knowledgeable enough; not hungry enough; not communicating well enough and so on. Development staff... see Assistant coaches.

I do not believe we need a rebuild and to start from scratch etc. But we do need a vigorous, wire-headed broom to sweep through the place... on and off the field. Mostly off. I reckon some very strong trading at year's end to get in some hard it types; extroverted, could help some of the A graders take the next step... along with 2 tall forwards who can actually lead hard and catch the damn thing!!
Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17

Re: Development and Recruiting

Reply #12
To be an A grader you need to be good every week...Mitchell, Jobe, Pendlebury, Gazza, Judd(when at his peak), J. Selwood, Bartel, Cotchin, Martin......even Swan....they dont have many bad games, we dont have enough of those players who can be good most weeks at an A grade level...Kruezer can be handy but has played probably 2-3 A grade games in his life, ditto to Gibbs.
Murphy and Judd when in his prime are the only players who we have who consistently knocked out A grade games and with Murphy now getting the best tagger thats not going happen too often and Judd struggles to impact on games even when getting the footy and working hard.

You need 3-4 of your best players performing at A grade output every week to be a threat......we dont have that.


Re: Development and Recruiting

Reply #13

I read it in print this morning and wasn't online. Found it now in the subscription section of the small paper online.

HS 12/7/2013

WHILE no coach likes to lose, Carlton and Richmond's results would have especially stung their respective coaches last week.

After a defeat where nothing seemed to go right, the coach must be quick to collect his thoughts. The most dangerous period of the week - and, in fact, a coach's career - can be directly after a shock.

The walk from the coach's box to the changerooms is long and this time must be used to compose yourself and work through what you will say to the team.

Many thoughts are running through your head, including what the assistant coaches would have said during the game - mostly uncomplimentary - to the players.

However, I found the best course of action is to say nothing because there is often nothing positive to say.

All coaches know once you start to open your mouth it is hard to shut it and it is in these moments that relationships can be permanently broken. The other upside to saying nothing is it gives you breathing space to look at the game closely and have a much clearer picture of what went wrong.

Both coaches would be asking themselves if the result was an aberration or there were some worrying trends that need to be addressed.

Damien Hardwick could justify stamping the North Melbourne game "aberration", but not Mick Malthouse after the loss to Collingwood.

Carlton appears to have some serious problems. I had the Blues comfortably finishing in the eight and, if their best 22 was fit and available, as it has been for most of the year, pushing for top four.

Yet this week's discussion has centred on the Blues' list and its "many holes". How can a team that has had so many early draft picks claim to have a poor list?

Most of those players taken with early picks were rated extremely highly by all recruiters. Clearly the Blues have made some list management errors and, if they had traded some early picks, might have won a premiership by now.

However, to blame their recruiting department is a cop-out. On the list of current problems recruiting is a long way down.


The game against the Magpies again exposed a number of areas that have become a worry for Mick.

In the past four games, the Blues have punished just 16 per cent of opposition turnovers with a score, the second-lowest percentage of any team.


It would appear the Blues' down-the-line, conservative approach is stalling the team.

It is something Mick talked about earlier in the season and I'm sure it would have been a source of discussion this week among the coaching staff.

The Blues have trailed at three-quarter time on six occasions this season and have failed to finish in front in any of these games.

Is this a result of poor fitness or, again, because of the struggle the team is having with conservative ball use?

Carlton has the second-worst kicking efficiency in the defensive 50 this season, again, a worrying trend.

Mick must continue to work on the game plan and develop the list. There should be no talk of 2014 and trading until he can determine what this group can do.

I suspect the group is capable of much better than it has produced and that is the coach's test.

The Tigers, on the other hand, are competent in most areas - if not a standout - and that's why Damien would have looked at last week's game as something out of the ordinary.

Ironically, they had 73 tackles against North and this is their weakest area (54 average).

The Tigers have done a lot right this year and I will be looking closely to see how they bounce back today against Gold Coast, a team they have never beaten.

Thanks for that Goat.

Maybe I have my own way of reading that piece (and like most of these guys, Roos keeps it a bit ambiguous), but in the main, I read that as a swipe at Malthouse.

Obviously, the bolded highlights are my own.

Re: Development and Recruiting

Reply #14
Murphy and Judd when in his prime are the only players who we have who consistently knocked out A grade games and with Murphy now getting the best tagger thats not going happen too often and Judd struggles to impact on games even when getting the footy and working hard.

Aside from Gibbs, I think the prime reason we haven't seen consistent performances is these guys can't stay out on the park. Talent wise, I think we have enough good players (though we need a key forward and 3 - 4 of the guys won't be there in 3 years), it's the bottom end and injuries that kills us.

Quote
You need 3-4 of your best players performing at A grade output every week to be a threat......we dont have that.

Agree but you need the bottom 6 contributing and not putting in junk games each week. I don't care if you have 4 players blitz it, if you have 6 others contribute nothing then it's going to be ugly against any half talented side. Yeah, you'll smash the bottom 8 but against top 4? Won't happen.

And I'm sure if you look at Carlton's best each game for the past 3-5 years you will see the same names week in, week out. When have you ever seen a cameo 5 goals or 25 touches from a Carlton player?

Reminds me very much of the early 90s St Kilda who had Harvey, Winmar, Bourke, Lockett, Lowe, Frawley (didn't rate Frawley myself but okay player) but continued to miss finals because the rest of the team was rubbish.