God help me - the Test Cricket thread

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Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread

Reply #1320 – January 22, 2024, 09:43:16 am

Quote from: Professer E on January 22, 2024, 07:29:59 am

Green hasn't done enough to get, or hold a place in the test side, but that's my opinion, which isn't worth #### on this site. You don't develop players cat test level.

My old chestnut has to continued under the radar bowling ineffectively. I'd be giving Morris a go very soon.

Selection "integrity" (as it is euphemistically called) has always been an issue in Australian cricket, at different levels. Maybe the spotlight should be turned on them and whatever their "processes" are

I agree with you Prof, not sold on Green as a test player and we havent dont much to future proof the bowling attack by developing some young quicks to take over from Starc, Hazlewood and Cummins who will probably all retire around the same time. The state of world test cricket though masks a lot of problems in the game and developing proper test cricketers doesnt seem a high priority for anyone.

Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread

Reply #1321 – January 22, 2024, 10:21:13 am

I may as well add to the chorus:
I think Green has a future, he has very few 'runs on the board' at this point. He has a good technique and can bowl at decent pace, but doesn't displace one of the front-liners in either role. Yes, he is an excellent fieldsman, but he needs to do more.
Green seems to be the only young one on the selectors' horizons, which is disappointing. Giving some tests to a few more younger players seems to me to be a good idea.

Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread

Reply #1322 – January 22, 2024, 11:13:12 am

My father was a cricket tragic and would often tell me about watching Bradman, Oldfield, O'Reilly, Grout, Johnston, Harvey, etc. He was a pretty good wicketkeeper himself and spent a couple of seasons at Carlton but gave it away because of the cliques. He'd compare the Carlton team to the Test team and say that it was hard to get in the team and even harder to get out. I think it's a lot easier to get out of the Test team these days, but still incredibly hard to get in.

The Australian Test team selection has always had an arcane element and I gave up trying to find any logic to it decades ago. Sometimes the selectors pull one out of the hat but there are still some ordinary selections rewarding mediocre performances while blokes shining at Sheffield Shield level are overlooked. Then there's the fixturing that often doesn't give cricketers a chance to showcase their talent at Shield level.

I was listening to a former Test cricketer on the wireless a while back. It may have been Stuart Clark. He was adamant that the 12 players selected had to be the best 12 Test cricketers on current form. He was totally opposed to the idea of "blooding" youngsters and said that their place was honing their craft in the Sheffield Shield. I think that there's a lot of merit in that approach but I would like to see promising fringe players as the 12th man/concussion sub.

Australian cricket has always struggled to produce genuine all-rounders. By that I mean a bloke who is genuinely in the best eleven for his batting or bowling, and is not far off with his other discipline. Doug Walters is a classic example of that; an elite batsman whose bowling was good enough to get by. Too many of our all-rounders can bat a bit and bowl a bit but aren't elite at either.

I think that's why Green gets a go; the selectors are desperate for a genuine all-rounder and, at his best, Green is a Test standard batsman and bowler. The problem is that his best is too infrequent and, following Stuart Clark's mantra, he should be working on becoming more consistent with the bat and ball in the Shield. The problem is that, if he's not getting regular Test games, does he focus on IPL ...

Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread

Reply #1323 – January 22, 2024, 08:15:53 pm

Nothing has changed DJ, I am connected to a young person playing premier cricket, and can confirm that's it still hard to break into senior teams and so few get dropped that chances for promotion are few and far between - and seem to be reserved for "cliques" of players. Many players give up because they get sick of rotting in the lower grades season after season with zero opportunity for elevation.

Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread

Reply #1324 – January 22, 2024, 09:06:54 pm

Quote from: Professer E on January 22, 2024, 08:15:53 pm

Nothing has changed DJ, I am connected to a young person playing premier cricket, and can confirm that's it still hard to break into senior teams and so few get dropped that chances for promotion are few and far between - and seem to be reserved for "cliques" of players. Many players give up because they get sick of rotting in the lower grades season after season with zero opportunity for elevation.

In that context Prof, what are the chances of two 8 or 9 year olds going on to open the batting for Australia?

How many better batsmen fell by the wayside while Warner and Khawaja were on their journey?

I suppose that, at all levels, only 11 players can take the field and that limits the opportunities for the next 11 best players and so on down the line.

One of my cousins plays in the local Geelong comp. He’s getting on a bit - like all of us - and captains the thirds. They sometimes struggle for players and he roped in his 14 year old son and 13 year old daughter to make up the numbers. Both kids coped with some hostile bowling and the three of them enjoyed what must have been a fairly unique experience. Cliques at that level are few and far between and the cricket is better for it 🙂

Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread

Reply #1325 – January 26, 2024, 08:27:41 am

The Windies showed a lot more fight … or did the Aussies not want to bat under lights?

It’s a big ask for an inexperienced team to adapt to the bounce of Australian wickets and face the most successful bowling quartet ever and even bigger when upper order collapses. This Test could go into the fourth day 🤔

Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread

Reply #1326 – January 26, 2024, 05:20:04 pm

Quote from: DJC on January 26, 2024, 08:27:41 am

This Test could go into the fourth day 🤔

It seems that I spoke too soon

Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread

Reply #1327 – January 26, 2024, 06:36:38 pm

Sick of waiting for Green to play an innings of substance... Perhaps time to pick a real opener and send some of the pretenders back to first class level to sort their games out. Not impressed.

Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread

Reply #1328 – January 26, 2024, 07:23:07 pm

Quote from: Professer E on January 26, 2024, 06:36:38 pm

Sick of waiting for Green to play an innings of substance... Perhaps time to pick a real opener and send some of the pretenders back to first class level to sort their games out. Not impressed.

Apart from screwing what was a reasonably settled top order, it's disrespecting the Windies and that's never a good idea, even when they're rubbish.

Surely the selectors have to admit that they're wrong and bring in a genuine opening bat.

Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread

Reply #1329 – January 26, 2024, 09:11:47 pm

I have lost interest so I haven't been following much, but I gather we've bowled poo again and the batting experiment has failed dismally.

The first thing we have to do is kick NSW out of test cricket, most of our shield sides with wipe the floor with the WI because they are actually interested!

Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread

Reply #1330 – January 27, 2024, 11:24:57 am

Quote from: LP on January 26, 2024, 09:11:47 pm

I have lost interest so I haven't been following much, but I gather we've bowled poo again and the batting experiment has failed dismally.

The first thing we have to do is kick NSW out of test cricket, most of our shield sides with wipe the floor with the WI because they are actually interested!

Bowling was good, half of the batting was abysmal.

Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread

Reply #1331 – January 28, 2024, 06:23:35 pm

The Windies have found a bowler in Shamar Joseph ...

Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread

Reply #1332 – January 28, 2024, 06:56:34 pm

Cant win em all I spose.

Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread

Reply #1333 – January 28, 2024, 07:05:26 pm

Quote from: Gointocarlton on January 28, 2024, 06:56:34 pm

Cant win em all I spose.

Particularly when the selectors muck around with the batting order

Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread

Reply #1334 – January 28, 2024, 07:13:10 pm

When you don't take an opposition seriously enough, you can get the surprise of your life. Australian cricket wasn't ready for today and suffered accordingly.
Maybe they'll stop congratulating themselves on how good they are and doing the hard yards to make sure we're good.
I won't blame our changes in batsmen, both Green and Smith performed this innings. But Labuschagne had a summer to forget, Head has had one good test and Marsh is human. There hasn't been the consistency in the batting for a long time, and there damned well needs to be.