Carlton Supporters Club

Princes Park => Robert Heatley Stand => Topic started by: PaulP on June 09, 2019, 11:08:31 am

Title: Pre-Game Thread: AFL 2019 Rd 13: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: PaulP on June 09, 2019, 11:08:31 am
Dogs coming off the bye. still smarting from the R5 loss, will have half the starting 18 sitting on Cripps.

Dogs by 2 goals.
Title: Re: Pre-Game Thread: AFL 2019 Rd 13: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on June 09, 2019, 11:16:00 am
Dog coming off the bye. still smarting from the R5 loss, will have half the starting 18 sitting on Cripps.

Dogs by 2 goals.

Agree, going to be tougher this week, IMO they may sacrifice Bontempelli to tag Cripps at the stoppages and run a similar plan to what Nth did
with Zeibell. Be a good challenge for Teague and its up to our other mids to lift and pick up the slack if Cripps is being held.
Title: Re: Pre-Game Thread: AFL 2019 Rd 13: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: Mantis on June 09, 2019, 11:24:42 am
Coming off a bye can make a side lose some momentum. Be a little flat on the field in the first quarter by past experience. I hope we can jump them early. If we do anything can happen.  Probably a game we just might miss by a whisker, but I have some added faith this time in this squad. Teague isn’t afraid to make a change on the field during a game to swing a game the other way. He also has no issues accepting faults if he says the wrong things.
Title: Re: Pre-Game Thread: AFL 2019 Rd 13: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: capcom on June 09, 2019, 11:58:36 am
Their bye will be offset by our confidence.

Us by 2
Title: Re: Pre-Game Thread: AFL 2019 Rd 13: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: flyboy77 on June 09, 2019, 12:05:56 pm
https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/stats-insider-do-afl-teams-win-more-often-after-a-bye-week-against-teams-that-played-the-week-before/news-story/f0ec5d65482dbc1fb067e510ccbec981

Quote
Analysis from Stats Insider has found that since 2011 — when bye weeks were implemented due to the introduction of the Gold Coast Suns — until 2015, there have been 61 games where a rested side clashed with a team that had to play the week before.

And while the numbers say one thing on the surface, it’s important to look deeper.

In those 61 games, the team coming off a bye has won 36 per cent of the time. But they were only expected to win 42 per cent of the time.

Note : 2016 article....
Title: Re: Pre-Game Thread: AFL 2019 Rd 13: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: Gointocarlton on June 09, 2019, 03:05:49 pm
I've seen nothing in a very long time to suggest that we can win two games in a row.
Dogs will be seething about last time, they should win easy.
Title: Re: Pre-Game Thread: AFL 2019 Rd 13: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: flyboy77 on June 09, 2019, 03:07:43 pm
I've seen nothing in a very long time to suggest that we can win two games in a row.
Dogs will be seething about last time, they should win easy.

That's just bunkum.

Based on nothing. They're every bit as ordinary as us....
Title: Re: Pre-Game Thread: AFL 2019 Rd 13: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: Gointocarlton on June 09, 2019, 03:19:51 pm
That's just bunkum.

Based on nothing. They're every bit as ordinary as us....
Based on nothing or recent form?
Last 20 games, which form is ours and which one is theirs?

WLLLLWWWLWWLLLLWWLLL

LLLLWLLLLLLLLWLLLLLL


Last 50 games?

LWLLWLLWLLWWWWLLLLLWLLWWWLLLLLWLLLLWWWLWWLLLLWWLLL

WWLLLWWLLLLLLLLWLLLLLLLLWLLLLLLLLLWLLLLLLLLWLLLLLL

Title: Re: Pre-Game Thread: AFL 2019 Rd 13: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: flyboy77 on June 09, 2019, 03:45:37 pm
tells you nothing.

new coach, new team (as good as).

And we beat them very easily last time and they're coming off the bye....and they're ordinary.
Title: Re: Pre-Game Thread: AFL 2019 Rd 13: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: Tragic on June 09, 2019, 05:45:15 pm
Beating the lions was awesome and a great relief. Can't knock it.  Now to see if anything has really changed.
Title: Re: Pre-Game Thread: AFL 2019 Rd 13: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: DJC on June 09, 2019, 07:12:28 pm
That's just bunkum.

Based on nothing. They're every bit as ordinary as us....

That would be funny if it wasn’t so close to the bone  :)

A bit of luck, better umpiring, greater self belief and fewer injuries and we could have strung 3 or 4 wins together.

For me, the critical factor is that the players have got reward for effort for the second time this season.  Will that satisfy them or will it drive them to dig deep again?  Of course, a lot will depend on whether Cripps plays on his terms or goes into his shell if he’s tagged.  I suspect that Beveridge will just set Bontompelli to go head to head with Cripps and that will suit our man.
Title: Re: Pre-Game Thread: AFL 2019 Rd 13: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: Lods on June 09, 2019, 09:08:44 pm
Short term goals from here.
First one get off the bottom.
That could come as soon as next week.
Title: Re: Pre-Game Thread: AFL 2019 Rd 13: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: shawny on June 09, 2019, 11:28:14 pm
Short term goals from here.
First one get off the bottom.
That could come as soon as next week.

Agree. I know there are other things that are more important but winning another spoon just can’t happen. Then handing the first pick away to those pr1cks regardless of how we want to argue it, is something I just have to pull out all stops to avoid. Giving away pick 2-4 doesn’t feel anywhere near as painful and giving them the top pick.

Back to the game, this is a definitely a winnable game. Play with the same energy we did this week send Ed to Bont and if he can keep him quiet I think we will be well on our way to 2 in a row.



Title: Re: Pre-Game Thread: AFL 2019 Rd 13: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: Professer E on June 10, 2019, 08:27:05 am
Plenty of other dog midfielders to mind.  Hunter,  Macrame, Libba etc
Title: Re: Pre-Game Thread: AFL 2019 Rd 13: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: laj on June 10, 2019, 12:54:32 pm
The defence is going to be very hard to select soon in regards to the talls. Levi's surprising there, Jones to come back, Weitering flying, Marchbank way better last week with his intercept marking, Goddard really smashing it in the VFL and more than deserves a game.
Title: Re: Pre-Game Thread: AFL 2019 Rd 13: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: LP on June 10, 2019, 01:12:14 pm
The defence is going to be very hard to select soon in regards to the talls. Levi's surprising there, Jones to come back, Weitering flying, Marchbank way better last week with his intercept marking, Goddard really smashing it in the VFL and more than deserves a game.

Weitering------->Jones--------------------------------->Marchbank, Levi------->Goddard

Levi was good when he spoiled or marked, but when the ball hits the deck he's a traffic cone compared to Jones or Weitering, anything else is just guilding the lilly!

If Levi can stay in form he'll get a run as permanent 2nd Ruck and backup KPD, he should be part of our hold and slow mode of play and only stay defensive side of the football while SpecialK has a breather!
Title: Re: Pre-Game Thread: AFL 2019 Rd 13: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: madbluboy on June 10, 2019, 01:14:08 pm
Weitering might be a better player but he can't handle the guys Jones can just yet.
Title: Re: Pre-Game Thread: AFL 2019 Rd 13: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: Gointocarlton on June 10, 2019, 03:09:11 pm
Weitering might be a better player but he can't handle the guys Jones can just yet.
This is a good problem to be debating, we have two outstanding defenders there.
Title: Re: Pre-Game Thread: AFL 2019 Rd 13: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: LP on June 10, 2019, 03:22:05 pm
Weitering might be a better player but he can't handle the guys Jones can just yet.

But in most other aspects of the game Weitering is a mile ahead! ;)
Title: Re: Pre-Game Thread: AFL 2019 Rd 13: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: laj on June 10, 2019, 03:34:04 pm
Weitering------->Jones--------------------------------->Marchbank, Levi------->Goddard

Levi was good when he spoiled or marked, but when the ball hits the deck he's a traffic cone compared to Jones or Weitering, anything else is just guilding the lilly!

If Levi can stay in form he'll get a run as permanent 2nd Ruck and backup KPD, he should be part of our hold and slow mode of play and only stay defensive side of the football while SpecialK has a breather!


Goddard's an interesting one. He is really killing it in the VFL. Like Kerr, there's no spot for him, which is a good sign.


Maybe Jones on a wing where he can run around killing people like he did as a ruck in the VFL. Looked like another midfielder in that role and a dangerous one.
Title: Re: Pre-Game Thread: AFL 2019 Rd 13: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: townsendcalling on June 10, 2019, 05:51:18 pm
Correct, Goddard has looked extremely comfortable and gaining more confidence every week. Pick 20 in his draft 6’6” in the old, solidly built and only 12 months older than Weitering.  I think he could eventually be one of the very good left field picks of last year’s draft

He’s a genuine marking defender while Levi is a great mark but still very raw regarding much more in terms of defender know how. Maybe Levi might have some genuine currency at the end of the year??
Title: Re: Pre-Game Thread: AFL 2019 Rd 13: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: thefutureisblue on June 11, 2019, 09:29:53 am
I heard an interview with Goddard on the radio just after her was delisted from StK last year.
He just had an unlucky run with injuries over his 4 years there that meant he struggled to break into the team, despite some good form along the way.
https://www.afl.com.au/news/2018-06-24/for-goddards-sake-why-isnt-this-saint-picked

I think he has the talent to be a solid defender, and is still young enough to improve on that.
I'd like to see him get a few games this year to test him out at AFL level.
Title: Re: Pre-Game Thread: AFL 2019 Rd 13: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: LP on June 11, 2019, 10:05:24 am
I heard an interview with Goddard on the radio just after her was delisted from StK last year.
He just had an unlucky run with injuries over his 4 years there that meant he struggled to break into the team, despite some good form along the way.
https://www.afl.com.au/news/2018-06-24/for-goddards-sake-why-isnt-this-saint-picked

I think he has the talent to be a solid defender, and is still young enough to improve on that.
I'd like to see him get a few games this year to test him out at AFL level.

We've too many already, if he's restoring his career maybe he is a trade option to help us get a ruckmen?

I can't see us trading Levi until we have a ruck backup, and I doubt we'd trade Jones or Weitering.
Title: Re: Pre-Game Thread: AFL 2019 Rd 13: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: Thryleon on June 11, 2019, 10:33:24 am
We've too many already, if he's restoring his career maybe he is a trade option to help us get a ruckmen?

I can't see us trading Levi until we have a ruck backup, and I doubt we'd trade Jones or Weitering.

Given our age demographics, it makes more sense to trade the one with higher perceived value at the trade table and keep the developing Goddard on slow heat.

He can come along a little bit later and no one will worry whilst he builds continuity in his game.

Its a really nice option to have.

Title: Re: Pre-Game Thread: AFL 2019 Rd 13: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: cookie2 on June 11, 2019, 11:32:23 am
We could also look at possibly another role for Jones, especially with his size and level of athleticism.
Title: Re: Pre-Game Thread: AFL 2019 Rd 13: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: LP on June 11, 2019, 11:38:45 am
Given our age demographics, it makes more sense to trade the one with higher perceived value at the trade table and keep the developing Goddard on slow heat.

He can come along a little bit later and no one will worry whilst he builds continuity in his game.

Its a really nice option to have.

Year by year, if we keep postponing player development and trading away experience looking for something better we are burning Cripps career!

I've no confidence in our player development, it seems the players we have that make progress do so in spite of our club's efforts not because of those efforts!
Title: Re: Pre-Game Thread: AFL 2019 Rd 13: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: ianh on June 11, 2019, 12:09:42 pm
Goddard's problem is lack of mobility.  If he can overcome that he is ahead of Cas as a defender but Cas has him for versatility.  Whilst we have an excess of tall defenders Cas has the benefit of being able to play forward or take a spell in the ruck which puts him in good stead.  The other one in this category is Jones who has far greater mobility.

I would be inclined to trial Jones as a forward and relief ruck on his return, if that isn't working play him down back again in which case probably Cas has to go or go forward.
Title: Re: Pre-Game Thread: AFL 2019 Rd 13: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: LP on June 11, 2019, 12:13:15 pm
I would be inclined to trial Jones as a forward and relief ruck on his return, if that isn't working play him down back again in which case probably Cas has to go or go forward.

Just cannot see us ever running Jones, McKay, McGovern and Charlie forward, we already look too top heavy when Cripps or Kreuzer float forward!

A big problem for a tall forward line at the moment is the lack of crumbing goals coming from our mids, they really need to push forward and score if the tall forward setup is to be successful.
Title: Re: Pre-Game Thread: AFL 2019 Rd 13: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: Thryleon on June 11, 2019, 01:20:40 pm
Year by year, if we keep postponing player development and trading away experience looking for something better we are burning Cripps career!

I've no confidence in our player development, it seems the players we have that make progress do so in spite of our club's efforts not because of those efforts!

That's why we trade one of Jones or casboult and keep Goddard.

Goddard is depth not demanding first team football and gives us what Levi gives us in a younger package.

It means we can keep Jones and weitering as first preference and have Goddard for depth.
Title: Re: Pre-Game Thread: AFL 2019 Rd 13: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on June 11, 2019, 01:34:28 pm
Goddard's problem is lack of mobility.  If he can overcome that he is ahead of Cas as a defender but Cas has him for versatility.  Whilst we have an excess of tall defenders Cas has the benefit of being able to play forward or take a spell in the ruck which puts him in good stead.  The other one in this category is Jones who has far greater mobility.

I would be inclined to trial Jones as a forward and relief ruck on his return, if that isn't working play him down back again in which case probably Cas has to go or go forward.

My thoughts too, you watch Goddard and he can only run in a straight line, good mark and kick but no allround mobility.
Jones would make a good old fashioned follower and be shock value as a ruckman/onballer....
IMO we work better down forward when its just McKay and Charlie, even McGovern over crowds things and we have more space when he is up the ground IMO...
Title: Re: Pre-Game Thread: AFL 2019 Rd 13: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: LP on June 11, 2019, 01:37:22 pm
Goddard is depth not demanding first team football and gives us what Levi gives us in a younger package.

Goddard is not a viable backup ruck option, he plays more like a heavier version of Marchbank.

I think the scenario you propose is only valid if we've solved the ruck/2nd ruck problems we currently have.

Kerr is probably closer to what you describe as a viable Levi substitute than Goddard.
Title: Re: Pre-Game Thread: AFL 2019 Rd 13: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: ianh on June 11, 2019, 05:56:03 pm
Goddard is not a viable backup ruck option, he plays more like a heavier version of Marchbank.

I think the scenario you propose is only valid if we've solved the ruck/2nd ruck problems we currently have.

Kerr is probably closer to what you describe as a viable Levi substitute than Goddard.
Agree
Title: Re: Pre-Game Thread: AFL 2019 Rd 13: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: laj on June 11, 2019, 06:07:46 pm
My thoughts too, you watch Goddard and he can only run in a straight line, good mark and kick but no allround mobility.
Jones would make a good old fashioned follower and be shock value as a ruckman/onballer....
IMO we work better down forward when its just McKay and Charlie, even McGovern over crowds things and we have more space when he is up the ground IMO...

Jones on a wing could do the same thing. When he played on the ball before his promotion he was not only outstanding but physically dangerous to the opposition. Wing could be similar. worked well for Richo and Riewoldt.
Title: Re: Pre-Game Thread: AFL 2019 Rd 13: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: kruddler on June 13, 2019, 06:26:24 pm
In - Murphy
Out - Jack
Title: Re: Pre-Game Thread: AFL 2019 Rd 13: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: kruddler on June 13, 2019, 06:28:31 pm
EMG Polson Kennedy Lobbe and BEN Silvagni
Title: Re: Pre-Game Thread: AFL 2019 Rd 13: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: shawny on June 13, 2019, 06:31:06 pm
In - Murphy
Out - Jack

Reckon Jack is a bit stiff.

He set up a few goals early by sheer desire, and they were at a stage when we couldn’t buy a goal.  Hope he keeps his chin up and has a big game in the 2nds.
Title: Re: Pre-Game Thread: AFL 2019 Rd 13: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: shawny on June 13, 2019, 06:31:52 pm
EMG Polson Kennedy Lobbe and BEN Silvagni

Not much quality there  :-[
Title: Re: Pre-Game Thread: AFL 2019 Rd 13: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: WASurfer on June 13, 2019, 06:33:01 pm
Silvagni desperately unlucky to be dropped. In the first half last week especially, when we were diabolical, he was one of the few having a red hot go and putting his body on the line.
Title: Re: Pre-Game Thread: AFL 2019 Rd 13: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: Jack Burton on June 13, 2019, 06:34:33 pm
Agree re Jack, very stiff. From what I saw he deserved to keep his spot
Title: Re: Pre-Game Thread: AFL 2019 Rd 13: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: Gointocarlton on June 13, 2019, 06:35:41 pm
EMG Polson Kennedy Lobbe and BEN Silvagni
Thats a p!$$ take, he's not even VFL development side standard.
Title: Re: Pre-Game Thread: AFL 2019 Rd 13: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: laj on June 13, 2019, 06:38:15 pm
EMG Polson Kennedy Lobbe and BEN Silvagni

Interesting lot of emergencies. In some cases i'm sure they do it to just keep some players encouraged.
Title: Re: Pre-Game Thread: AFL 2019 Rd 13: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: Baggers on June 13, 2019, 06:38:46 pm
Surprised to see Jack dropped. Same terrific second and third efforts leading to goals. Can only assume that he didn't do 'his job'.
Title: Re: Pre-Game Thread: AFL 2019 Rd 13: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: Professer E on June 13, 2019, 06:41:38 pm
What did Jack do wrong?   I thought his repeat efforts and desperation was handy,  even though he didn't rack up a heap of stats.

Be ready for a late out IMO.
Title: Re: Pre-Game Thread: AFL 2019 Rd 13: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: madbluboy on June 13, 2019, 06:55:39 pm
How can you drop Jack for Murphy?

Young bloke tries his guts out for a princess who is just there to get paid.
Title: Re: Pre-Game Thread: AFL 2019 Rd 13: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: DJC on June 13, 2019, 07:20:03 pm
Six effective disposals, one tackle and a missed shot at goal isn’t good enough, even with the second and third efforts that led to the Gibbons goal.  Jack was our weakest player last round and doesn’t deserve a spot in the 22 on his performance.

He needs to work on his marking and goal kicking while he’s running around with the NBs.
Title: Re: Pre-Game Thread: AFL 2019 Rd 13: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: laj on June 13, 2019, 07:22:19 pm
Six effective disposals, one tackle and a missed shot at goal isn’t good enough, even with the second and third efforts that led to the Gibbons goal.  Jack was our weakest player last round and doesn’t deserve a spot in the 22 on his performance.

He needs to work on his marking and goal kicking while he’s running around with the NBs.
11 touches, 8 contested, 11 pressure acts, 3 score involvements, 2 goal assists, 2 clearances. Our first goal, that Gibbons got, was all Silvagni, a 3 efforts to get the ball to him.

Nice to have depth though finally.
Title: Re: Pre-Game Thread: AFL 2019 Rd 13: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: madbluboy on June 13, 2019, 07:29:50 pm
Murphy needs to work on his heart and desire.
Title: Re: Pre-Game Thread: AFL 2019 Rd 13: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: PaulP on June 13, 2019, 07:34:14 pm
Don't tell me the new coach is playing favourites already ?

Bloody Murphy - he's been starting 18 under 6 coaches. How the hell does this midget wrecking ball get away with it ? Why can't we find any coaches with balls ? Do we simply neuter them at the front door ? For 15 years ? And to think he does it with his favourite teddy bear permanently tucked under one arm !!

No wonder we're trash.
Title: Re: Pre-Game Thread: AFL 2019 Rd 13: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: capcom on June 13, 2019, 07:35:30 pm
What has Ben Silvagni EVER done to warrant a senior game?  Dumbfounded
Title: Re: Pre-Game Thread: AFL 2019 Rd 13: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: Gointocarlton on June 13, 2019, 07:44:41 pm
What has Ben Silvagni EVER done to warrant a senior game?  Dumbfounded
Two tenths of SFA.
Title: Re: Pre-Game Thread: AFL 2019 Rd 13: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: flyboy77 on June 13, 2019, 07:47:59 pm
Interesting lot of emergencies. In some cases i'm sure they do it to just keep some players encouraged.

Of course!
Title: Re: Pre-Game Thread: AFL 2019 Rd 13: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: Barbs on June 13, 2019, 07:50:53 pm
No Gowers for the Dogs this week?

The AFL website is reporting Jack Silvagni as the emergency, maybe Ben was a typo?
Title: Re: Pre-Game Thread: AFL 2019 Rd 13: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: LP on June 13, 2019, 07:51:36 pm
I reckon O'Brien will be a late out and SoJ will be back in.

What has Ben Silvagni EVER done to warrant a senior game?  Dumbfounded

On the AFL site BSoS isn't named as an emergency but SoJ is!
Title: Re: Pre-Game Thread: AFL 2019 Rd 13: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: Gointocarlton on June 13, 2019, 07:52:12 pm
I reckon O'Brien will be a late out and SoJ will be back in.

On the AFL site BSoS isn't named as an emergency but SoJ is!
I was going to say it might have been a typo.
Title: Re: Pre-Game Thread: AFL 2019 Rd 13: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: Lods on June 13, 2019, 07:56:35 pm
Jack's unlucky to be dropped
But it may be the emphasis is now on giving us the best possible side to win the game and development will take a back seat for a while.

In  a discussion between which player can give us the most.....
If you're picking on effort and attitude Jack gets it every time.
Murphy gives us more in other areas, possessions, territory gained

https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_player_compare?playerStatus1=A&tid1=4&playerStatus2=A&tid2=4&type=A&pid1=1607&pid2=4144&fid1=S&fid2=S

Now we can argue their relative merits until we're blue in the face but the match committee have made a decision and they'll wear the consequences.

So far their record is outstanding ;D

I suspect there's a different dynamic at play now...wins will take precedence over development for the rest of the year.
Teams will be selected on who they regard as the best available.
Forget the emergencies...they're probably unlikely to play.
Ben Silvagni is a token gesture

Edit: If it is a typo that makes sense and they'll both (Murphy and Silvagni) probably play
Title: Re: Pre-Game Thread: AFL 2019 Rd 13: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: madbluboy on June 13, 2019, 08:05:39 pm
Don't tell me the new coach is playing favourites already ?

Bloody Murphy - he's been starting 18 under 6 coaches. How the hell does this midget wrecking ball get away with it ? Why can't we find any coaches with balls ? Do we simply neuter them at the front door ? For 15 years ? And to think he does it with his favourite teddy bear permanently tucked under one arm !!

No wonder we're trash.

Marc Murphy Spoon Colector.
Title: Re: Pre-Game Thread: AFL 2019 Rd 13: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: flyboy77 on June 13, 2019, 08:16:47 pm
Curnow in the middle as a stopper.

Murphy as a permanent small forward - they'll have to put someone good on him...
Title: Re: Pre-Game Thread: AFL 2019 Rd 13: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: kruddler on June 13, 2019, 08:17:46 pm
I reckon O'Brien will be a late out and SoJ will be back in.

On the AFL site BSoS isn't named as an emergency but SoJ is!

That's where i got my teams from before.

I even triple checked the emergencies and it clearly had #37 Ben Silvagni

Someone obviously screwed something up there and has fixed the error.
Title: Re: Pre-Game Thread: AFL 2019 Rd 13: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: PaulP on June 13, 2019, 08:19:35 pm
Marc Murphy Spoon Colector.

The reason why Teague selected him is because he wants him in the team
The reason why Bolton used to select him is because he wanted him in the team
The reason why Barker used to select him is because he wanted him in the team
The reason why Malthouse used to select him is because he wanted him in the team
The reason why Ratten used to select him is because he wanted him in the team
The reason why Pagan used to select him is because he wanted him in the team

There's no conspiracy, there's no mystery. There's no head scratching required.

Title: Re: Pre-Game Thread: AFL 2019 Rd 13: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: Thryleon on June 13, 2019, 08:26:08 pm
Jack's unlucky to be dropped
But it may be the emphasis is now on giving us the best possible side to win the game and development will take a back seat for a while.

In  a discussion between which player can give us the most.....
If you're picking on effort and attitude Jack gets it every time.
Murphy gives us more in other areas, possessions, territory gained

https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_player_compare?playerStatus1=A&tid1=4&playerStatus2=A&tid2=4&type=A&pid1=1607&pid2=4144&fid1=S&fid2=S

Now we can argue their relative merits until we're blue in the face but the match committee have made a decision and they'll wear the consequences.

So far their record is outstanding ;D

I suspect there's a different dynamic at play now...wins will take precedence over development for the rest of the year.
Teams will be selected on who they regard as the best available.
Forget the emergencies...they're probably unlikely to play.
Ben Silvagni is a token gesture

Edit: If it is a typo that makes sense and they'll both (Murphy and Silvagni) probably play

There's a couple of schools of thought.

1.  Match ups.  Silvagni might not fit the team balance we need.

2.  We appear to be gearing towards 2020 already.  Jack has been good.  Guaranteed to be with us next year or at another club.  Now it's time for him to tidy up his game and it might be time to start looking through the other question marks on the list.

3.  It could be gamesmanship.  Rule him out today until you see the doggies squad and then change it up on game day.
Title: Re: Pre-Game Thread: AFL 2019 Rd 13: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: Tragic on June 13, 2019, 08:27:23 pm
Jack's unlucky to be dropped
But it may be the emphasis is now on giving us the best possible side to win the game and development will take a back seat for a while.

In  a discussion between which player can give us the most.....
If you're picking on effort and attitude Jack gets it every time.
Murphy gives us more in other areas, possessions, territory gained

https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_player_compare?playerStatus1=A&tid1=4&playerStatus2=A&tid2=4&type=A&pid1=1607&pid2=4144&fid1=S&fid2=S

Now we can argue their relative merits until we're blue in the face but the match committee have made a decision and they'll wear the consequences.

So far their record is outstanding ;D

I suspect there's a different dynamic at play now...wins will take precedence over development for the rest of the year.
Teams will be selected on who they regard as the best available.
Forget the emergencies...they're probably unlikely to play.
Ben Silvagni is a token gesture

(Edit: If it is a typo that makes sense and they'll both probably play)

fair enough call.  it's about time in my book that the match committee focused on winning the game in front of us rather than future games.  if their plans have murph's inclusion giving us a greater chance of winning this week, then i'm all for it. it's a good sign that we're upgrading a good performer rather than dumping a complete hack. jack will get another go when his form and team balance demand it. 

i like Jack's endeavor for sure - and if he can tidy up a few parts of his game i think he'll be a valuable role player for the side. he just needs to stick a few more marks, and kick at goal a fair bit better for the type of role he plays, coz he ain't a zippy goal sneak.  a run in the 2's won't hurt him where hopefully he'll get more opportunity to practice those skills more often and against lesser opponents.  Build up his strength and confidence.  he's a fringe player until he can really nail something.  fyi - i really like the way he has a crack and hope he does become a regular on his merit. 

murph - i get both sides of the story.  certainly doesn't show the same willingness as Jack, but there's all types of willingness, and he has his moments where he wills himself to do something special.  i think the short answer is that murph gives us more run around the ground, and he does have more score involvements than Jack, and he's not even a forward.  he's been a very good player for us in the past, and i think he's still a pretty good player.  he knows that pressure will start coming from below, which i hope fires him up to finish his career with some good games and some wins.

Title: Re: Pre-Game Thread: AFL 2019 Rd 13: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: madbluboy on June 13, 2019, 08:33:05 pm
The reason why Teague selected him is because he wants him in the team
The reason why Bolton used to select him is because he wanted him in the team
The reason why Barker used to select him is because he wanted him in the team
The reason why Malthouse used to select him is because he wanted him in the team
The reason why Ratten used to select him is because he wanted him in the team
The reason why Pagan used to select him is because he wanted him in the team

There's no conspiracy, there's no mystery. There's no head scratching required.

All failed and sacked.
Title: Re: Pre-Game Thread: AFL 2019 Rd 13: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: PaulP on June 13, 2019, 08:34:21 pm
All failed and sacked.

Yes, but not because they kept selecting Murphy.
Title: Re: Pre-Game Thread: AFL 2019 Rd 13: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: crashlander on June 13, 2019, 09:17:07 pm
Agree re Jack, very stiff. From what I saw he deserved to keep his spot
I agree. He is the pressure man in our front half and he isn't far away.

CARLTON
B: Lachie Plowman, Caleb Marchbank, Sam Petrevski-Seton
HB: Kade Simpson, Jacob Weitering, Dale Thomas
C: Will Setterfield, Patrick Cripps, Sam Walsh
HF: David Cuningham, Charlie Curnow, Ed Curnow
F: Mitch McGovern, Harry McKay, Levi Casboult
R: Matthew Kreuzer, Marc Murphy, Zac Fisher
Int: Michael Gibbons, Lochie O'Brien, Paddy Dow, Nic Newman

EMG: Cameron Polson, Jack Silvagni, Matthew Kennedy, Matthew Lobbe

IN: Marc Murphy

OUT: Jack Silvagni (Omitted)

WESTERN BULLDOGS
B: Jason Johannisen, Jackson Trengove, Bailey Williams
HB: Caleb Daniel, Zaine Cordy, Easton Wood
C: Lachie Hunter, Tom Liberatore, Patrick Lipinski
HF: Matthew Suckling, Ryan Gardner, Sam Lloyd
F: Marcus Bontempelli, Aaron Naughton, Tory Dickson
R: Tim English, Josh Dunkley, Jack Macrae
Int: Bailey Smith, Hayden Crozier, Toby McLean, Bailey Dale

EMG Rhylee West, Fletcher Roberts, Callum Porter, Lachie Young

IN: Tory Dickson, Hayden Crozier
OUT: Billy Gowers (Injured), Lachie Young (Omitted
Title: Re: Pre-Game Thread: AFL 2019 Rd 13: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on June 13, 2019, 09:32:59 pm
I agree. He is the pressure man in our front half and he isn't far away.

CARLTON
B: Lachie Plowman, Caleb Marchbank, Sam Petrevski-Seton
HB: Kade Simpson, Jacob Weitering, Dale Thomas
C: Will Setterfield, Patrick Cripps, Sam Walsh
HF: David Cuningham, Charlie Curnow, Ed Curnow
F: Mitch McGovern, Harry McKay, Levi Casboult
R: Matthew Kreuzer, Marc Murphy, Zac Fisher
Int: Michael Gibbons, Lochie O'Brien, Paddy Dow, Nic Newman

EMG: Cameron Polson, Jack Silvagni, Matthew Kennedy, Matthew Lobbe

IN: Marc Murphy

OUT: Jack Silvagni (Omitted)

WESTERN BULLDOGS
B: Jason Johannisen, Jackson Trengove, Bailey Williams
HB: Caleb Daniel, Zaine Cordy, Easton Wood
C: Lachie Hunter, Tom Liberatore, Patrick Lipinski
HF: Matthew Suckling, Ryan Gardner, Sam Lloyd
F: Marcus Bontempelli, Aaron Naughton, Tory Dickson
R: Tim English, Josh Dunkley, Jack Macrae
Int: Bailey Smith, Hayden Crozier, Toby McLean, Bailey Dale

EMG Rhylee West, Fletcher Roberts, Callum Porter, Lachie Young

IN: Tory Dickson, Hayden Crozier
OUT: Billy Gowers (Injured), Lachie Young (Omitted

Bulldogs team is much better than last time, they have more size with Trengove, Gardiner and a much more dangerous look IMO...dont agree with Jack being dropped either.
This will be a tough game as the Dogs have about the best team they can field on the park this week...
Title: Re: Pre-Game Thread: AFL 2019 Rd 13: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: LoveNavy on June 13, 2019, 10:45:13 pm
That's where i got my teams from before.

I even triple checked the emergencies and it clearly had #37 Ben Silvagni

Someone obviously screwed something up there and has fixed the error.

Happens a lot.... very professional reporting ????
Title: Re: Pre-Game Thread: AFL 2019 Rd 13: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: townsendcalling on June 13, 2019, 10:59:54 pm
We need pace against the Bulldogs. Mark Murphy vs Jack Silvagni, compare the pair. We are now in a position to pick a side based on the opposition and our needs rather than who’s available.
Title: Re: Pre-Game Thread: AFL 2019 Rd 13: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: flyboy77 on June 14, 2019, 03:33:33 am
Bulldogs team is much better than last time, they have more size with Trengove, Gardiner and a much more dangerous look IMO...dont agree with Jack being dropped either.
This will be a tough game as the Dogs have about the best team they can field on the park this week...

Not much in it really EB. Trengrove? Meh. Gardiner is from their VFL team - the mid season draft?

This was the WB team in round 5:

WESTERN BULLDOGS
B Bailey Williams, Zaine Cordy, Hayden Crozier
HB Caleb Daniel, Easton Wood, Lachie Young
C Lachie Hunter, Tom Liberatore, Jason Johannisen
HF Will Hayes, Josh Dunkley, Sam Lloyd
F Toby McLean, Aaron Naughton, Tory Dickson
FOL Tim English, Marcus Bontempelli, Jack Macrae
I/C Mitch Wallis, Bailey Smith, Ed Richards, Billy Gowers
Title: Re: Pre-Game Thread: AFL 2019 Rd 13: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: Professer E on June 14, 2019, 09:49:51 am
Murphy would want to hit the ground running.
Title: Re: Pre-Game Thread: AFL 2019 Rd 13: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: Lods on June 14, 2019, 10:03:43 am
Horses for courses....
Murphy was in our best when we played and beat them earlier in the year. 
He picked up 28 possessions.
His inclusion really isn't the issue, it's more who drops out to make way.
Title: Re: Pre-Game Thread: AFL 2019 Rd 13: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: LordLucifer on June 14, 2019, 11:02:07 am
We are "going for the win" as we know they are beatable.

Murphy needs to deliver though.
Title: Re: Pre-Game Thread: AFL 2019 Rd 13: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: thefutureisblue on June 14, 2019, 11:16:39 am
FWIW, I would have Murphy in ahead of Jack, but Jack still unlucky to be dropped. It's difficult to leave anyone out of last weeks side.

Looking at the upside, it's great to be in a position where we are saying that nobody should be dropped, and we have players in the VFL who are playing good footy but can't get a run (Kerr?, Goddard?).

Imagine what selection would be like with a clear injury list.
...and I think we would be a lot closer to the crows on the ladder if our injury counts were swapped.
Title: Re: Pre-Game Thread: AFL 2019 Rd 13: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: Milhanna13 on June 14, 2019, 12:41:22 pm
Don't tell me the new coach is playing favourites already ?

Bloody Murphy - he's been starting 18 under 6 coaches. How the hell does this midget wrecking ball get away with it ? Why can't we find any coaches with balls ? Do we simply neuter them at the front door ? For 15 years ? And to think he does it with his favourite teddy bear permanently tucked under one arm !!

No wonder we're trash.

umm.. he was the best player in the AFL (according to the Players Assoc) at one point, under one of those 6 coaches....
Title: Re: Pre-Game Thread: AFL 2019 Rd 13: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: LP on June 14, 2019, 12:45:08 pm
Don't tell me the new coach is playing favourites already ?

Bloody Murphy - he's been starting 18 under 6 coaches. How the hell does this midget wrecking ball get away with it ? Why can't we find any coaches with balls ? Do we simply neuter them at the front door ? For 15 years ? And to think he does it with his favourite teddy bear permanently tucked under one arm !!

No wonder we're trash.

Thanks PaulP, that got me smiling again and cheered me up! :)
Title: Re: Pre-Game Thread: AFL 2019 Rd 13: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: Lods on June 14, 2019, 12:46:27 pm
I think Paul forgot his emoticons ;D
Title: Re: Pre-Game Thread: AFL 2019 Rd 13: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: LP on June 14, 2019, 12:48:54 pm
I think Paul forgot his emoticons ;D

I wonder if an initial blunt draft included a reference to Gibbs? :o
Title: Re: Pre-Game Thread: AFL 2019 Rd 13: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: PaulP on June 14, 2019, 12:50:03 pm
umm.. he was the best player in the AFL (according to the Players Assoc) at one point, under one of those 6 coaches....

Sorry mil. My lousy attempts at sarcasm are best understood by those who know my views.

Thanks PaulP, that got me smiling again and cheered me up! :)

Presenting exhibit A.

I think Paul forgot his emoticons ;D

And exhibit B.
Title: Re: Pre-Game Thread: AFL 2019 Rd 13: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: LP on June 14, 2019, 12:52:06 pm
Sorry mil. My lousy attempts at sarcasm are best understood by those who know my views.

Presenting exhibit A.

And exhibit B.

I was going to post a reply with this question,

How long before this bloody Bolton effect wears off?
Title: Re: Pre-Game Thread: AFL 2019 Rd 13: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: PaulP on June 14, 2019, 12:52:21 pm
I wonder if an initial blunt draft included a reference to Gibbs? :o

No, not his time. But I do wonder what's going on at the Crows. He either really is surplus to requirements, and a wasted trade, or he ran over Pyke's cat or something similar.
Title: Re: Pre-Game Thread: AFL 2019 Rd 13: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: PaulP on June 14, 2019, 01:50:37 pm
https://www.canberratimes.com.au/story/6217875/blues-dont-fear-lull-after-bolton-exit/?cs=9465

"In terms of that energy I've thrown it back to the players, I'm big on not motivating them as a coach, I'm actually wanting them to motivate themselves," Teague told reporters on Friday.

Whaaaattt !!

Title: Re: Pre-Game Thread: AFL 2019 Rd 13: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: Lods on June 14, 2019, 02:42:26 pm
They'll start favourites but if we play up to our best there's no reason why we cant win.

But we cant go in thinking that it will just happen.
The old caretaker magic doesn't work quite like that, despite North's efforts.

We'll have to bring effort right from the start.
The team will be buoyed by last week's performance but they can't afford to get too far behind again.
The other thing is the Bulldogs should approach this game with a determination to reverse the earlier result this year.

It will make this win, if it occurs, a more substantial one than the win last week which will just be seen as a sugar hit if we lose.
Title: Re: Pre-Game Thread: AFL 2019 Rd 13: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: PaulP on June 14, 2019, 02:56:57 pm
https://www.afl.com.au/news/2019-06-14/were-going-to-be-more-aggressive-teague-wants-blues-to-be-bold


On returning to normality ahead of this weekend's clash with the Western Bulldogs, Teague has gone to work on making tactical tweaks for the remainder of the year.

"They're only slight adjustments," Teague said on Friday.

"The foundations here were pretty good. It's probably just a little bit more aggression in offense, making the ground a little bit bigger.

"Then, because we're going to be more aggressive, we've got to transition a bit quicker and make sure we're ready to defend knowing that errors are going to occur.

"We're getting up and we want to play the game in our half. It's as simple as that."
Title: Re: Pre-Game Thread: AFL 2019 Rd 13: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: Gointocarlton on June 14, 2019, 03:19:35 pm
https://www.afl.com.au/news/2019-06-14/were-going-to-be-more-aggressive-teague-wants-blues-to-be-bold


On returning to normality ahead of this weekend's clash with the Western Bulldogs, Teague has gone to work on making tactical tweaks for the remainder of the year.

"They're only slight adjustments," Teague said on Friday.

"The foundations here were pretty good. It's probably just a little bit more aggression in offense, making the ground a little bit bigger.

"Then, because we're going to be more aggressive, we've got to transition a bit quicker and make sure we're ready to defend knowing that errors are going to occur.

"We're getting up and we want to play the game in our half. It's as simple as that."

Why the fark does he feel the need to tell everyone this? Its either BS to throw the oppo off or its silly telling everyone how we are going to play. I cant recall other coaches talking tactics and game style like this.
Title: Re: Pre-Game Thread: AFL 2019 Rd 13: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: Lods on June 14, 2019, 03:24:06 pm
David "The Minimalist" Teague.

He's saying a lot without really stating it straight out.
Making a distinction between himself and Bolton.

I don't know the validity of some of the claims, but there was a suggestion that Bolton tended to deliver a message and game style that was a bit hard for the players to fully grasp.

The KISS plan is probably just as much directed to the players as it is to the public.
Title: Re: Pre-Game Thread: AFL 2019 Rd 13: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: cookie2 on June 14, 2019, 03:47:59 pm
Wait and see what actually happens. As always, all the rest is just "words".
Title: Re: Pre-Game Thread: AFL 2019 Rd 13: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: LP on June 14, 2019, 03:53:25 pm
Wait and see what actually happens. As always, all the rest is just "words".

It's the stick and stones you have to worry about!
Title: Re: Pre-Game Thread: AFL 2019 Rd 13: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: cookie2 on June 14, 2019, 03:56:59 pm
It's the stick and stones you have to worry about!

Nah, don't worry me. Actions are a harder currency.  8)
Title: Re: Pre-Game Thread: AFL 2019 Rd 13: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: PaulP on June 14, 2019, 06:50:47 pm
https://www.carltonfc.com.au/news/2019-06-14/teague-backs-motivated-blues

From about 1.05 to 1.30. Interesting.
Title: Re: Pre-Game Thread: AFL 2019 Rd 13: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: Baggers on June 14, 2019, 08:36:25 pm
Nah, don't worry me. Actions are a harder currency.  8)

Well said, Fluffy One. Exactly.
Title: Re: Pre-Game Thread: AFL 2019 Rd 13: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: spf on June 15, 2019, 01:08:59 am
Bulldogs are the slightly better team according to FootyWire:

Carlton BluesAverage Per GameWestern Bulldogs
216Kicks217.9
136.2Handballs172.3
352.2Disposals390.2
91Marks92.3
9.8Goals11.4
9.6Behinds12.5
19.4Scoring Shots23.9
59.9Tackles56.6
35.7Hitouts22.7
17.2Frees For20.4
20.3Frees Against15.6
6.8Goal Assists8.4
46.9Inside 50s56.3
140.9Contested Possessions140
201.9Uncontested Possessions244.9
245.9Effective Disposals292.8
69.80%Disposal Efficiency %75%
59.1Clangers48.8
12.6Contested Marks9.9
9.1Marks Inside 5013.2
39.2Clearances37.1
11.8Centre Clearances12.8
27.4Stoppage Clearances24.3
42.5Rebound 50s37.1
48.9One Percenters53
4.1Bounces7.2
1.59Kick to Handball Ratio1.26
50.50%Conversion47.70%
35.94Disposals Per Goal34.23
18.15Disposals Per Scoring Shot16.33
5467.2Metres Gained5855.7
71.7Turnovers69.9
69.2Intercepts68.1
8.8Tackles Inside 509.6
Title: Re: Pre-Game Thread: AFL 2019 Rd 13: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: crashlander on June 15, 2019, 10:04:51 am
Certainly when it comes to free kicks!
Title: Re: Pre-Game Thread: AFL 2019 Rd 13: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: townsendcalling on June 15, 2019, 12:44:53 pm
Cam Polson is the carry over emergency for tonight. Ready made replacement for O’Brien if required?!?! 
Title: Re: Pre-Game Thread: AFL 2019 Rd 13: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: Gointocarlton on June 15, 2019, 03:52:35 pm
Cam Polson is the carry over emergency for tonight. Ready made replacement for O’Brien if required?!?!
Couple of names that would strike fear to the Doggies camp right there.
Title: Re: Pre-Game Thread: AFL 2019 Rd 13: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: LoveNavy on June 15, 2019, 07:18:25 pm
Go Blues
Let's get a win to celebrate Daisy's 250th