A resurrection of a question that I ask at the end of each season.
I expect Jones to get the nod but its never clear cut on here.
Liam !!!
Liam !!!
By the length of the Flemington straight!
Daylight second, probably Charlie.
I saw Liam Jones' last game for the Northern Blues. it was astounding. He has continued this performance into the AFL.
Liam Jones is the obvious choice..
But I will put my hand up and eat some humble pie re Jarrod Pickett... I thought he was average at best the 1st few times he played ones this year... he has been very good the last couple of weeks. I think someone has given him a pep talk as he seems to have come good all of a sudden ?
It's clear cut.
Liam has indeed gone from zero to hero - a remarkable transformation for which I struggle to think of any parallel.
It's clear cut.
Yep, this year I would've been better off asking who's the second most improved?
Jones
But if we can get a Charlie Curnow like improvement form some of our youngsters 2018 could be a very good year. ;)
I guess you can only really assess those in their 2nd year or better... for mine we've seen strong improvement in SOJ, Tractor, Lamb, Plowman, Daisy, but Mr and Mrs Curnow's little boy, Charles aka Curnofides, would be the more significant.
I haven't mentioned Liam Jones as I reckon he's now simply being played in his correct position. But if you forget that and that he's always shown he's an amazing athlete, then he'd win hands down...
I guess you can only really assess those in their 2nd year or better... for mine we've seen strong improvement in SOJ, Tractor, Lamb, Plowman, Daisy, but Mr and Mrs Curnow's little boy, Charles aka Curnofides, would be the more significant.
I haven't mentioned Liam Jones as I reckon he's now simply being played in his correct position. But if you forget that and that he's always shown he's an amazing athlete, then he'd win hands down...
Yep
Kreuzer (injury free) is having a great year...Daisy, probably his best for us... on the other hand I'm not sure Jack is having a much improved year.
I get the feeling he actually could do with a rest and if it wasn't the last game I suspect he'd be "spelled" this week.
Liam Jones has been an absolute revelation in the past 10 weeks......
but......
Charlie has gone from a talented youngster to the second most important talent we have (Cripps is #1, for the moment anyway).
I have no doubt that the Carlton shop shelves and racks will be empty of items with the number 30 on them by the start of next season.
Is it possible to show more improvement than Jones? From staring at a guaranteed delisting to being on pace with AA selection in the space of a couple of months. Incredible.
Curnow should be the rising star. Has come with a late rush but he's in the front by a long way right now.
Liam is the 'revelation' - from whipping boy about to be delisted, to the form CHB of the comp with a 2 year contract extension in 10 weeks is about as big a turn around is there has been.
Charlie is the development story - has gone up to new levels in several games this year and is just building each week. Had probably his best game on the weekend. The sky is the limit, but he looks like he has the hunger and the competitive streak to match the physical talent.
The fact that Fisher, Pickett, Boek and Bryne all had career best games last week against Hawthorn is a massive mental plus for those guys and the team. It's great to have so many young guys finishing the year strongly and it will fill them with confidence for next year that they are good enough.
SPS's last few weeks have also been very handy after a flat spell. Willo looks like the steal of the draft and could be the next Peter Dean. Harry showed a glimpse. Marchbank played a lot of good games and took a pounding.
Cunningham and SOJ were up and down and a little disappointing at times - they still have time on their side and hopefully just a small case of second year blues. I think both them still have a lot to offer.
Mental blank.... Who else has worn 30 for Carlton.... Waite?
Jones
The Jones bloke by a country mile....
The Jones bloke by a country mile....
x10
Followed by Charlie Curnow who has taken the leap from draftee to very good established player and would be one of our first picked...
Now this is getting monotonous.... ::)
The Jones boy for mine.
Of the youngsters Charlie, and Samo - given he didn't have a PS.
Jones hasn't really improved, he is just playing consistently at his ability. You could argue the same for Kreuzer.
The guy who for me who has improved is Charlie Curnow. He's ahead of schedule doing stuff he has never done before!
Along these lines was a segment on talking footy the other night about The Bulldogs and which players have improved on last year (they indicated only a couple from memory).
I also posted a year or two back about the whole list and who had improved on the prev year - my thoughts for that period were very few.
If we look at the 2017 v 2016 performances for each player i would be pretty confident that 75% have had as good or a better year than in 2016.
Anyone care to do an analysis:
Player Improved in 2017 (yes/no/same/new)
xxxx yes
yyyy no
etc...
Jones hasn't really improved, he is just playing consistently at his ability. You could argue the same for Kreuzer.
The guy who for me who has improved is Charlie Curnow. He's ahead of schedule doing stuff he has never done before!
Maybe his natural ability hasn't improved but surely his performance, consistency, value to the team etc. etc have? Depends how you want to define or qualify "improved", which was left pretty open in this thread.
Jones hasn't really improved, he is just playing consistently at his ability. You could argue the same for Kreuzer.
The guy who for me who has improved is Charlie Curnow. He's ahead of schedule doing stuff he has never done before!
:o :o :o :o ::)
Along these lines was a segment on talking footy the other night about The Bulldogs and which players have improved on last year (they indicated only a couple from memory).
I also posted a year or two back about the whole list and who had improved on the prev year - my thoughts for that period were very few.
If we look at the 2017 v 2016 performances for each player i would be pretty confident that 75% have had as good or a better year than in 2016.
Anyone care to do an analysis:
Player Improved in 2017 (yes/no/same/new)
xxxx yes
yyyy no
etc...
Think you're pretty spot on there. Just ran some quick numbers and subjectively I think there has been a 44% rate of improvement, 28% of the list in the plateau state, 13% in decline and 15% N/A due to being new draftees.
Obviously this is based on my opinion of player output, but I had 20 players in the Improved column, 6 in Declined, 13 Plateaued and 7 N/A.
This is how I rated each player:
Improved = >
Declined = <
Plateaued = |
Kade Simpson <
Liam Jones >
Sam Docherty >
Lachie Plowman >
Caleb Marchbank >
Jacob Weitering <
Harrison Macreadie N/A
Tom Williamson N/A
Ciaran Byrne |
Alex Silvagni >
Simon White |
Dylan Buckley |
Billie Smedts <
Sam Rowe >
Kristian Jaksch |
Liam Sumner |
Ciaran Sheehan |
Rhys Palmer <
Dennis Armfield <
Nick Graham |
Daniel Gorringe <
Jesse Glass-McCasker |
Andrew Gallucci |
Matt Korcheck |
Jack Silvagni >
Harry McKay >
Jed Lamb >
Charlie Curnow >
Jarrod Pickett >
Patrick Kerr N/A
Levi Casboult >
Kym LeBois N/A
Matthew Wright |
Marc Murphy >
Bryce Gibbs >
Sam Petrevski-Seton N/A
Patrick Cripps |
Sam Kerridge >
Blaine Boekhorst >
Zac Fisher N/A
David Cuningham >
Cameron Polson N/A
Ed Curnow >
Dale Thomas >
Matthew Kreuzer >
Andrew Phillips |
Maybe his natural ability hasn't improved but surely his performance, consistency, value to the team etc. etc have? Depends how you want to define or qualify "improved", which was left pretty open in this thread.
I can see where the Spotted One is coming from here. Jones is perhaps showing us what he's always had just been played out of position. If the criteria was value to the team, then he's improved 1000%.
For me improvement is about development. If you look at Gibbs, he's playing the same role but has improved his performance this year. But Charlie C has gone from quiet and spasmodic last year and early this year to downright influential.
Great post from NM above, hard to argue with any of her assessments. Good stuff. Big thumbs up.
Think you're pretty spot on there. Just ran some quick numbers and subjectively I think there has been a 44% rate of improvement, 28% of the list in the plateau state, 13% in decline and 15% N/A due to being new draftees.
Obviously this is based on my opinion of player output, but I had 20 players in the Improved column, 6 in Declined, 13 Plateaued and 7 N/A.
While I don't entirely agree with each of your individual player assessments, my overall figures for players that improved are in the same ballpark. That to me is a very positive result in what has been a disappointing season in terms of Ws and Ls.
As for the most improved player, Liam Jones has to be it by the length of the straight. Apart from giving supporters a lot of enjoyment, Liam's new found form as a defender has saved his career and given us the problem of trying to fit five key defenders into two or three spots :)
Comments from Cam Mooney on Liam Jones:
“Since Jones has come back into the senior team this season, he is marked as an elite defender in intercept marks (2.9 per game), intercept possessions (7.7 per game), spoils (9.5 per game) and pressure acts.
Meat is another one who has improved alot.
He's much better value in the ruck this year and you can actually watch him kick for goal knowing his conversion is up.
He's not our most improved but he's one.
Marc Murphy found a gear this year that I thought we might not see again and I'm putting him as our most improved.
Meat is another one who has improved alot.
He's much better value in the ruck this year and you can actually watch him kick for goal knowing his conversion is up.
He's not our most improved but he's one.
Agreed, he has improved but from a very very low starting point, he's still very average relative to other similar AFL types.
Marc Murphy found a gear this year that I thought we might not see again and I'm putting him as our most improved.
I don't think Murphy's improved, I think the 3rd Man Up rules have allowed him to get back to where he was.
This will be an interesting question at the end of 2018! :o
This will be an interesting question at the end of 2018! :o
It will be, if it is one of our forwards especially McKay then we might be in for a decent year if not then I worry where we will finish.
On another note, Dow is absolute class. Looks like a great choice alredy can see the strength in his hips already and poise!
It will be, if it is one of our forwards especially McKay then we might be in for a decent year if not then I worry where we will finish.
On another note, Dow is absolute class. Looks like a great choice alredy can see the strength in his hips already and poise!
If my memory is functioning properly, I'm pretty sure Bolton said they wanted Dow no matter what, and would have taken him even at No1.
If my memory is functioning properly, I'm pretty sure Bolton said they wanted Dow no matter what, and would have taken him even at No1.
I can see why, I would have as well after what he has shown.