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Re: Goaltracker

Reply #45 –
@ Paul
As you say, lots of questions lots of hypotheticals. I reckon BB is coaching based on the list he has and the low base it came from. Clearly he has stiffened up that back 6 and asked the team to play the team defence game with alot more focus and discipline. If that personnel was different, ie with our fwd line replaced with the Adelaide fwd tomorrow, he would coach slightly differently I would have thought. Would we win more games? I think we would. Would we make the 8? I think we most likely would. Would we win the flag? Probably not but we would get to where we want to be alot quicker.
2017-16th
2018-Wooden Spoon
2019-16th
2020-dare to dream? 11th is better than last I suppose
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time

Re: Goaltracker

Reply #46 –
Quote from: Gointocarlton on
@ Paul
As you say, lots of questions lots of hypotheticals. I reckon BB is coaching based on the list he has and the low base it came from. Clearly he has stiffened up that back 6 and asked the team to play the team defence game with alot more focus and discipline. If that personnel was different, ie with our fwd line replaced with the Adelaide fwd tomorrow, he would coach slightly differently I would have thought. Would we win more games? I think we would. Would we make the 8? I think we most likely would. Would we win the flag? Probably not but we would get to where we want to be alot quicker.

Fair points GTC. All of us know the forward line is our weakest link, and I was just trying to think about the problem a little differently.

Just having a look through the ladders since 2000, pretty much all top 4 teams, and certainly all premiers, finish the season with a % over 100 (in some cases well over) and scoring 100+ points for (once again, in some cases, well over). The real exceptions are the Doggies last season (2016 was bizarro world on many fronts), and the Swans and Saints teams coached by Lyon/Roos, which we all know were very defense orientated, stoppage orientated teams.

Clearly, we need to be scoring 100+ to be top 4, and that needs to happen through greater accuracy, greater efficiency, better and more frequent F50 entry, better cattle, the right structure etc.

It's no coincidence that our best performances in the last 15 years have been with a decent forward structure / setup and decent players - Waite, Walks, and the amigos (2 or 3 depending on circumstance).

Re: Goaltracker

Reply #47 –
Quote from: PaulP on
Fair points GTC. All of us know the forward line is our weakest link, and I was just trying to think about the problem a little differently.

Just having a look through the ladders since 2000, pretty much all top 4 teams, and certainly all premiers, finish the season with a % over 100 (in some cases well over) and scoring 100+ points for (once again, in some cases, well over). The real exceptions are the Doggies last season (2016 was bizarro world on many fronts), and the Swans and Saints teams coached by Lyon/Roos, which we all know were very defense orientated, stoppage orientated teams.

Clearly, we need to be scoring 100+ to be top 4, and that needs to happen through greater accuracy, greater efficiency, better and more frequent F50 entry, better cattle, the right structure etc.

It's no coincidence that our best performances in the last 15 years have been with a decent forward structure / setup and decent players - Waite, Walks, and the amigos (2 or 3 depending on circumstance).
understand all that and agree. Dont quote me on the numbers but the formula or statistic for winning the flag is something like scoring 102 pts and keeping your opponent to 84 pts. Something like that.
2017-16th
2018-Wooden Spoon
2019-16th
2020-dare to dream? 11th is better than last I suppose
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time

Re: Goaltracker

Reply #48 –
Disagree with much of that. Our midfield is a far bigger problem than the forward line...

Fix the midfield, the forward lines all but fixes itself...we're two to three quality mids short.

And Kreuzer, for all his good form, really struggles against the new swathe of rucks considerably taller than him .

put the Crows front 6 in with the way we moved the ball last Sunday after quarter time, we'd score much the same....f... all.
Finals, then 4 in a row!

Re: Goaltracker

Reply #49 –
Quote from: flyboy77 on
Disagree with much of that. Our midfield is a far bigger problem than the forward line...

Fix the midfield, the forward lines all but fixes itself...we're two to three quality mids short.

And Kreuzer, for all his good form, really struggles against the new swathe of rucks considerably taller than him .

put the Crows front 6 in with the way we moved the ball last Sunday after quarter time, we'd score much the same....f... all.

He would be currently sitting in the top 5 in our B&F so far. 

Sure he is not as tall as some of the giants BUT what he gives around the ball that many just don't see is where he value is. Would be nice to have a taller ruckman but then they wont be able to block, smoother, tackle, harass and be that big extra mid around the contest that big Kruezer is.

Until our midfield group changes drastically he is a very important player. Just look at our winning record without him in the side to realise his value to us.

 

 

Re: Goaltracker

Reply #50 –
So basically what folk are saying is that it wouldn't matter who was up front the result would be the same because of our weak mid-field.

In effect our forward line is irrelevant.

So then why not use it to....
-stack it with players we're looking to delist (one last chance so to speak)
or
-get senior ground time into McKay and Kerr
or
-send Jack Silvagni and Curnow to the Northern Blues for the rest of the year and let the youngsters work out an understanding together.

I still have a hope that towards the end of the year the scoring power will improve significantly on last years totals both for team and individuals...but I doubt it will be until after the bye.

Round 10 last year we kicked 16 goals.
We're likely to slip behind our 2016 total this week.

Sending the same group out week after week just seems a pointless exercise

Re: Goaltracker

Reply #51 –
Quote from: shawny on
He would be currently sitting in the top 5 in our B&F so far. 

Sure he is not as tall as some of the giants BUT what he gives around the ball that many just don't see is where he value is. Would be nice to have a taller ruckman but then they wont be able to block, smoother, tackle, harass and be that big extra mid around the contest that big Kruezer is.

Until our midfield group changes drastically he is a very important player. Just look at our winning record without him in the side to realise his value to us.

I don't always agree with David King's views but I was interested to hear him state that Kreuzer is the best ruckman in the competition this season. Of course, that's not based solely on hitouts but King emphasised his work around the ground, marking and the assistance that he provides to our midfielders.
“Why don’t you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don’t you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don’t you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?”  Oddball

Re: Goaltracker

Reply #53 –
Quote from: DJC on
I don't always agree with David King's views but I was interested to hear him state that Kreuzer is the best ruckman in the competition this season. Of course, that's not based solely on hitouts but King emphasised his work around the ground, marking and the assistance that he provides to our midfielders.

The old Ruck-Rover ;)

Re: Goaltracker

Reply #54 –
Quote from: DJC on
I don't always agree with David King's views but I was interested to hear him state that Kreuzer is the best ruckman in the competition this season. Of course, that's not based solely on hitouts but King emphasised his work around the ground, marking and the assistance that he provides to our midfielders.

I rate what a ruckman does around the ground way more than how many taps outs they get. Often sides dominate hit outs but lose the clearances. Unless you can palm a ball out like John Nicholls or Polly Farmer the hitout stats are overrated. Kreuzer is a way better player this year because of his overall output around the ground, which I put down to him being the lone genuine ruckman. That's more important to me. Never any good when he shares. While playing the dual role maybe taking a little toll on Levi he is still a better player for it too both around the ground and on the scoreboard. Last year, Phillips. Kreuzer struggled bad around the ground, while Levi struggled to be the lone key forward. Like we were playing with 15 players. This year is alot different.

Re: Goaltracker

Reply #55 –
We're just treading water until this 195cm tall forward arrives:

Re: Goaltracker

Reply #56 –
No doubt taller than that by now Mav?
Finals, then 4 in a row!

Re: Goaltracker

Reply #57 –
Let's hope so.

Re: Goaltracker

Reply #58 –
Quote from: flyboy77 on
Disagree with much of that. Our midfield is a far bigger problem than the forward line...

Fix the midfield, the forward lines all but fixes itself...we're two to three quality mids short.

And Kreuzer, for all his good form, really struggles against the new swathe of rucks considerably taller than him .

put the Crows front 6 in with the way we moved the ball last Sunday after quarter time, we'd score much the same....f... all.

We have a former AFLCA MVP winner in Murphy. He goes ok.
Gibbs, for all the flack he gets, is still an a-grade mid, not A+, but A.
Cripps is breaking all the records for clearances and contested possessions for games played and if he isn't there now, will certainly be an elite mid soon enough.
Kreuzer would be amongst the top 6 in terms of ruck output this season.

There is your starting midfield. Not too much to complain about there.
From there it does drop away, E. Curnow, Graham...etc

However, our forwardline....
Is anyone there considered elite? No.
Is anyone there considered a-grade? No.
Is anyone there considered b-grade? Questionable. Plenty of potential...but nothing guaranteed.

....before anyone says Weitering, he is a gun player, but is not a gun forward by any stretch of the imagination.

In short, our forwardline needs more attention than the midfield.

Re: Goaltracker

Reply #59 –
Quote from: PaulP on
Going back to jeza'a point, if we (hypothetically) dispensed with our forward line, and brought in the Crows forward line (Jenkins Walker Betts), and kept everything else the same, what would happen ?

Would they sit in the F50 like spare pr!cks at a Jewish wedding, waiting for half decent delivery (or any kind of delivery), and not look nearly as potent as they do now ?

Would we see an ability to kick higher scores ?

Do our mids subconsciously feel the substandard nature of our forward line (and behave accordingly), and once this change occurs, would they work harder for more and better F50 delivery, because they see a better return for their efforts ?

Is there something in the Crows style and advanced stage of development, that gives them the ability to score 135 points a game ? is it ball speed, is it leg speed, is it cohesion, is it the cattle, is it the coaching ?

If Bolton took over the Crows, would they still be where they are now, playing the way they play ?

Lost of questions that I'm just throwing out there folks.

Bolded the answers.

Bolton, and the players, play the way they play based on the cattle we have. That is, we won't kick too many winning scores with the forward line we have, so its best we hold possession and starve the opposition of chances to score.
When the opposition is double your score your chances of a comeback if the score is 4 goals to 8 is a lot more likely than if the score is 7 goals to 14.