I'll be at this one, so there should be a fair bit of comment on here before I return. Hope it is positive.
Farrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk!!!!
Geelong spent most of the game doing not alot but watch us kick point after point. That should have been on the edge of your seat game.
We found a new way to stuff up, just when we really badly needed to win. Like last year, when the 8 opened up we found ways to blow it. Not alot wrong with the work rate just kicking at goal.
Another top 8 team, another 20-odd point loss.
Given the team we ended up putting out there, and given how inaccurate we were early, i think its a minor miracle it was kept to 26 points.
Were always going to be up against it against the cats, that ended up being 'no chance' once we lost Jones and Casboult as it threw out our team balance beyond repair.
We had 14 players on the injury list before the game, and we can add 2 more with the late outs. Probably should include Cripps on that as well.
Nothing worth taking out of that game......besides Walsh being a freak.....but we knew that already.
Move onto the old enemy next week.
OK, not unexpected given some of the hacks we had to pick today, but why not play some kids instead of the likes of Setterfield?
I know the delivery into F50 was excremental but our forwards were terrible today. Martin was dreadful, and if Betts wants another year....really!?! You might not be kicking goals but the Geelong interceptors and rebounders had a ducking picnic today. Oh look, Stewart BOG, what a surprise.
We were too short all over the ground. We robbed the forward line by having to ruck Silvagni and again Harry was the centre of attention for their backs with nothing else there. Owies 2 misses and Harry’s in the third were costly.
Bush footballers have more skill
Ta ta:
Ed C
Setterfield
Need to replace so many more
Martin and Williams should be in the twos
What a masterful display by Jacob Weitering
Reading the Geelong Board. They are just happy to take the points and move on after that one.
OK, not unexpected given some of the hacks we had to pick today, but why not play some kids instead of the likes of Setterfield?
I know the delivery into F50 was excremental but our forwards were terrible today. Martin was dreadful, and if Betts wants another year....really!?! You might not be kicking goals but the Geelong interceptors and rebounders had a ducking picnic today. Oh look, Stewart BOG, what a surprise.
totally agree lets see what we have with Kemp, Carroll, Honey, Ramsay hell give Lachie O'brien the rest of the year on a wing and tell him to earn himself a contract for next year.
Honey
Kemp
Carroll
Ramsay
At least two of those should have played.
OK, not unexpected given some of the hacks we had to pick today, but why not play some kids instead of the likes of Setterfield?
I know the delivery into F50 was excremental but our forwards were terrible today. Martin was dreadful, and if Betts wants another year....really!?! You might not be kicking goals but the Geelong interceptors and rebounders had a ducking picnic today. Oh look, Stewart BOG, what a surprise.
It didn't help going with only five forwards for most of the day ::)
Realistically, it's hard to be critical of our boys after that game... except for disposal skills, especially in front of goal.
The effort was terrific and deserves acknowledgment. We didn't really drop our heads.
I don't think the coach's box could have done better.
We took 3 injured blokes into the game -- Crippa, Williams & Martin, lost two before the bounce, liability with Setterfield and then kicked badly. Stayed in the game with will only.
Newnes & Fogarty honest toilers but really found out in a game like this.
Corralling has to be coached out of this side. Good opponents just walk away with the aggott.
Weiters, Crippa, Walsh... great efforts. In fact the backline did bloody well considering the number of inside 50s from the Pussycats. Love watching Saad.
We will get so much better with a healthier list. I'm not as disappointed or discouraged as some.
Prematch no one on the site gave us a chance, most predicted a 3-4 goal loss. We lose a key defender and backup ruckman prematch and have no adequate replacements in the wings and are forced to use two spuds… and what did we lose by???
It didn't help going with only five forwards for most of the day ::)
Think we were worried about our lack of height in defence. Even so, kick at goal properly and we have a very, very different game.
Realistically, it's hard to be critical of our boys after that game... except for disposal skills, especially in front of goal.
The effort was terrific and deserves acknowledgment. We didn't really drop our heads.
I don't think the coach's box could have done better.
We took 3 injured blokes into the game -- Crippa, Williams & Martin, lost two before the bounce, liability with Setterfield and then kicked badly. Stayed in the game with will only.
Newnes & Fogarty honest toilers but really found out in a game like this.
Corralling has to be coached out of this side. Good opponents just walk away with the aggott.
Weiters, Crippa, Walsh... great efforts. In fact the backline did bloody well considering the number of inside 50s from the Pussycats. Love watching Saad.
We will get so much better with a healthier list. I'm not as disappointed or discouraged as some.
Yes, agree with all that. Disappointed or discouraged, no, frustrated beyond recall due to kicking at goal, yes. On another day an undermanned side could have taken a famous win.
Bush footballers have more skill
Ta ta:
Ed C
Setterfield
Need to replace so many more
Martin and Williams should be in the twos
What a masterful display by Jacob Weitering
That’s exactly as I saw the game
I’d also throw Plowman in with the ta ta group
The truth is that all of Setterfield, Curnow, Martin, Plowman, Newnes are barely AFL standard, whilst Kennedy, Newman are too often average. Fogarty ison the cusp. Martin hot and cold
Way too many passengers
It didn't help going with only five forwards for most of the day ::)
shocking coaching.
Teague confirmed to me he's not up to it....
That’s exactly as I saw the game
I’d also throw Plowman in with the ta ta group
The truth is that all of Setterfield, Curnow, Martin, Plowman, Newnes are barely AFL standard, whilst Kennedy, Newman are too often average. Fogarty ison the cusp. Martin hot and cold
Way too many passengers
Yet, it was just bad kicking that cost us.
shocking coaching.
Teague confirmed to me he's not up to it....
We were very short down back. Might not have had alot of choice. Not much wrong with Teague today. One thing he doesn't have under control is a score of 2.14.
Prematch no one on the site gave us a chance, most predicted a 3-4 goal loss. We lose a key defender and backup ruckman prematch and have no adequate replacements in the wings and are forced to use two spuds… and what did we lose by???
Did you miss the soft, insipid repeated turnover coming out of the back line all night?
And others all over the ground really.
That's nothing to do with losing a few players.
Our guys are mentally very weak.
Picking blokes like Setters doesn't help - hope that bloke donates his pay check to a charity this week.
I'm tired of the injuries excuse. If Martin is injured - as some suggest - then dont play him. If he is fit, then drop him, his work rate is not up to scratch.
Today's game was a perfect example of what happens when there are too many list cloggers with poor foot skills. Until they are delisted, traded, whatever, we are not going to trouble the top 8.
I'm tired of the injuries excuse. If Martin is injured - as some suggest - then dont play him. If he is fit, then drop him, his work rate is not up to scratch.
I’m actually impressed with blokes like Martin Williams and Cripps who put there hand up to play while injured all on big money and are willing to risk further injury to do the team thing. If we had someone else great rest em but don’t bag them they don’t select themselves bag the selectors
I’m actually impressed with blokes like Martin Williams and Cripps who put there hand up to play while injured all on big money and are willing to risk further injury to do the team thing. If we had someone else great rest em but don’t bag them they don’t select themselves bag the selectors
If players are injured they need resting, the season was done a while back.....Martin was ordinary, Williams fair and Cripps was banged up from last week and shouldnt have played.
Yet, it was just bad kicking that cost us.
Fremantle could say the same against us last week.
Fremantle could say the same against us last week.
What the other side does is not our problem. We control only thing that are under our control. We were the better side most of last week anyway. That just had that 10 min burst of 3.5 that made it closer than it was. Even then we kicked 2.5 in the last qtr anyway.
Prematch no one on the site gave us a chance, most predicted a 3-4 goal loss. We lose a key defender and backup ruckman prematch and have no adequate replacements in the wings and are forced to use two spuds… and what did we lose by???
Agree but if we kicked 5 straight as we should have, we would have put real pressure on them and we would have believed we could win. Not saying we would have won, but it would have looked real different. Instead, all the they had to do was kick one every now and then and they would maintain a lead. Scoreboard pressure is like no other form of pressure.
If players are injured they need resting, the season was done a while back.....Martin was ordinary, Williams fair and Cripps was banged up from last week and shouldnt have played.
Actually, win today would have put us on the tip end of the 8. We don't have alot left to bring in. Probably Fisher, Honey and a couple of kids.
Agree but if we kicked 5 straight as we should have, we would have put real pressure on them and we would have believed we could win. Not saying we would have won, but it would have looked real different. Instead, all the they had to do was kick one every now and then and they would maintain a lead. Scoreboard pressure is like no other form of pressure.
At worst an "edge of the seat" game.
Did you miss the soft, insipid repeated turnover coming out of the back line all night?
And others all over the ground really.
That's nothing to do with losing a few players.
Our guys are mentally very weak.
Picking blokes like Setters doesn't help - hope that bloke donates his pay check to a charity this week.
I reckon Cottrel would have been a better choice than Setterfield, at least he would have bashed and crashed more which what you need vs Geel.
What the other side does is not our problem. We control only thing that are under our control. We were the better side most of last week anyway. That just had that 10 min burst of 3.5 that made it closer than it was. Even then we kicked 2.5 in the last qtr anyway.
Who controlled the game today?
The only two times Geelong have won a game 70-44, 1952 and 1958, an Aussie won Wimbledon.
Actually, win today would have put us on the tip end of the 8. We don't have alot left to bring in. Probably Fisher, Honey and a couple of kids.
I know the Maths says we could make it but we are relying on other teams losing and I think Richmond and GWS will win their fair share between now and seasons end.
Honey and Fisher cant be any worse than Martin.....list management has been average, I know we have injuries but have had no KP defense back up and should have taken a tall KP in the mid season draft who can play both ends. Why we picked another small in Boyd is beyond me. Teague has his detractors but he up against it with what he has to work with...
I think the game itself, given our late outs, was much closer than I expected.
The scoreboard isn't a true indicator of the play and I bet Scott and a bunch of Handbagger coaches will be very unhappy. If the Handbaggers play like that in finals they won't go far.
We will drop a game to either Collingwood or North because we're on that level.
I reckon Cottrel would have been a better choice than Setterfield, at least he would have bashed and crashed more which what you need vs Geel.
Setterfield wont contest properly.....cannot tolerate that vs any team let alone the decent ones.
I would have given Carroll a go....once we lost Jones and Casboult and had to play a banged up Cripps we were up against it.
I dont see Cottrell staying on the list, handy honest player but not going to take us anywhere.
We got lucky Geelong had two bananas like Stanley and Esava playing, if Cameron had played we probably would have lost by ten goals...
shocking coaching.
Teague confirmed to me he's not up to it....
[/quoDid you miss the soft, insipid repeated turnover coming out of the back line all night?
And others all over the ground really.
That's nothing to do with losing a few players.
Our guys are mentally very weak.
Picking blokes like Setters doesn't help - hope that bloke donates his pay check to a charity this week.
Setterfield is not up to it and should be delisted and stuffed if I know why he keeps getting games.
However I’m more annoyed in Martin and Williams.
I’m sick of hearing the excuses for these overpaid cheats. We would have got a few more wins this year if those 2 blokes in particular played somewhere close to the standard they are being paid for.
Add McGovern to that list and we have not got any return on those big money recruits. Paid for mangos, received 3 lemons.
Some really diverse opinions on here.
Funny how we watch the same game and see different things.
For the most part I'm quite OK with today given the 'fractured' side we put out there.
Yep we had few passengers.
The difference between last week and this is... when you play a lesser quality side you're able to support each other, so the weaknesses aren't as apparent.
Up against a stronger side it becomes more of an 'every man for himself' situation and some just aren't up to it.
It exposes the passengers.
A couple of late outs makes it even harder.
In general the effort was a pass.
The kicking was a fail
As to the coaching...I think Teague's trying a few things
One of the juggling acts is that since the GWS games we've restricted opposition sides to 73, 64 and 70 indicating a focus on the defensive side of our game.
How much has that limited our own scoring....gee it's not like we didn't have our opportunities today.
We will drop a game to either Collingwood or North because we're on that level.
I think club expectations would be solid wins vs both those teams who are below us and struggling with a caretaker coach in Collingwoods case and a rebuild with young kids for Nth.
If we cant win and beat both those teams well then its going to be hard for any review to save Teague IMO.
Reading the Geelong Board. They are just happy to take the points and move on after that one.
Fair enough, for them. Maybe they realize they couldn't put away a team with half its list unavailable.
We did so much right, only to turn it over and give it to them on a platter.
Not enough players really put in, but we had some absolute winners on the day: Weitering slaughtered Hawkins; Walsh had leather poisoning; Saad did a great job ... But our disposal killed us.
I didn't expect to win when we lost Casboult and Jones. That hurt us a lot and robbed us so much flexibility. But we were also out-coached: far too often Geelong had an extra in defence and it ended up being either Tuohey or Henderson. Talk about rubbing salt into the wounds.
Fair enough, for them. Maybe they realize they couldn't put away a team with half its list unavailable.
We did so much right, only to turn it over and give it to them on a platter.
Not enough players really put in, but we had some absolute winners on the day: Weitering slaughtered Hawkins; Walsh had leather poisoning; Saad did a great job ... But our disposal killed us.
I didn't expect to win when we lost Casboult and Jones. That hurt us a lot and robbed us so much flexibility. But we were also out-coached: far too often Geelong had an extra in defence and it ended up being either Tuohey or Henderson. Talk about rubbing salt into the wounds.
Unfortunately, with our outs and lack of height, we had to play an extra in defence. Makes it easy for a player like Stewart when it goes into our forward 50. May have been better going into the F50 low, if there was no clear target, so as to keep it at ground level.
You can't win if you can't kick. Our number one failing. We deserve to be where we are.
Totally inadequate training in a basic effin' skill.
That’s exactly as I saw the game
I’d also throw Plowman in with the ta ta group
The truth is that all of Setterfield, Curnow, Martin, Plowman, Newnes are barely AFL standard, whilst Kennedy, Newman are too often average. Fogarty ison the cusp. Martin hot and cold
Way too many passengers
I'm prepared to give Martin a chance as he has shown his skill and talent in the past. The sooner we find out if the likes of Kemp, Ramsey, Honey, Philp are any good, they sooner we can move the others on. What we learnt today was the diabolical decision to delist KPD cover (and not replace them) in Macreadie, Goodard and to an extent B Silvagni for the day like today where we lost Jones, Weitering or heaven forbid both. Plowman gave away 20kg and god knows how many cms to Ratta Tat Tat so he was on a hiding to nothing. I would have delisted Marchbank and kept someone like Goodard personally. We got OMac as cover but he his injured.
I'm prepared to give Martin a chance as he has shown his skill and talent in the past. The sooner we find out if the likes of Kemp, Ramsey, Honey, Philp are any good, they sooner we can move the others on. What we learnt today was the diabolical decision to delist KPD cover (and not replace them) in Macreadie, Goodard and to an extent B Silvagni for the day like today where we lost Jones, Weitering or heaven forbid both. Plowman gave away 20kg and god knows how many cms to Ratta Tat Tat so he was on a hiding to nothing. I would have delisted Marchbank and kept someone like Goodard personally. We got OMac as cover but he his injured.
Kerr would be pretty handy right now too. Wasn't as if he couldn't play.
I'm prepared to give Martin a chance as he has shown his skill and talent in the past. The sooner we find out if the likes of Kemp, Ramsey, Honey, Philp are any good, they sooner we can move the others on. What we learnt today was the diabolical decision to delist KPD cover (and not replace them) in Macreadie, Goodard and to an extent B Silvagni for the day like today where we lost Jones, Weitering or heaven forbid both. Plowman gave away 20kg and god knows how many cms to Ratta Tat Tat so he was on a hiding to nothing. I would have delisted Marchbank and kept someone like Goodard personally. We got OMac as cover but he his injured.
Fully agree and I'll keep saying it but we knew mid season draft we had most of those injuries and were only tempting fate with either Jones or Weitering getting injured and should have recruited a taller KP type who could play both ends instead of Boyd.
Plowman got lucky that Esava is a spud and couldnt take a mark to save himself but we wont get that lucky every week and the
list management team have to wear this and not the poor coach who has to make do with what he has left.
The list management team knew the only replacement KP player McDonald was injured but did nothing about....you never know but that one taller player may have made all the difference today.
Fully agree and I'll keep saying it but we knew mid season draft we had most of those injuries and were only tempting fate with either Jones or Weitering getting injured and should have recruited a taller KP type who could play both ends instead of Boyd.
Plowman got lucky that Esava is a spud and couldnt take a mark to save himself but we wont get that lucky every week and the
list management team have to wear this and not the poor coach who has to make do with what he has left.
The list management team knew the only replacement KP player McDonald was injured but did nothing about....you never know but that one taller play may have made all the difference today.
An extra tall down back meant we wouldn't have had too play an extra there. It meant the like of Stewart was able intercept all day as it meant they had an extra too.
I'm prepared to give Martin a chance as he has shown his skill and talent in the past.
The better teams would never have paid what we did for this bloke. And yet there are still those who want to give him more chances.
Cameo player and even then it’s when it matters little then goes missing for big chunks of games and rarely if ever influences the outcome. Sadly we are paying A grade rates on a bloke that is nothing more then a C grader at best.
An extra tall back would have helped for sure, but I'm not convinced it was the difference. I think the back 6/7 did a great job. Apart from goal kicking, I think ball use, decision making and pressure up the ground were bigger issues tonight. Teague said in the post match that even though we laid the same number of tackles as the Cats, our tackles weren't effective because the Cats players too often were able to dish off and keep the ball moving.
One of our poorer games for the year IMO. Apart from the 1st q, the game was played mostly on their terms.
Late to the party, so please excuse me but
@PaulP you mentioned in the in game thread about Plowman playing on Radagalea (sp?)
Who do you think should have manned him ?
An extra tall back would have helped for sure, but I'm not convinced it was the difference. I think the back 6/7 did a great job. Apart from goal kicking, I think ball use, decision making and pressure up the ground were bigger issues tonight. Teague said in the post match that even though we laid the same number of tackles as the Cats, our tackles weren't effective because the Cats players too often were able to dish off and keep the ball moving.
One of our poorer games for the year IMO. Apart from the 1st q, the game was played mostly on their terms.
Effective tackles should be a stat as should failed tackles.......when you only play five players down forward you are always going be playing the game on the other teams terms and in their half. Thought our defenders did a good job and in Weiterings case a great job.....
Late to the party, so please excuse me but @PaulP you mentioned in the in game thread about Plowman playing on Radagalea (sp?)
Who do you think should have manned him ?
There wasn't really anyone else to do the job. It was a comment about our selection circumstances rather than a knock on Plowman. But Esava was not the reason we lost tonight.
Honey
Kemp
Carroll
Ramsay
At least two of those should have played.
You didn’t notice the big strong developed Geelong bodies out there ?
Effective tackles should be a stat as should failed tackles.......when you only play five players down forward you are always going be playing the game on the other teams terms and in their half. Thought our defenders did a good job and in Weiterings case a great job.....
Inside 50 tackles were 12-5.
Our forward 50 pressure was non existent.
Effective tackles should be a stat as should failed tackles.......when you only play five players down forward you are always going be playing the game on the other teams terms and in their half. Thought our defenders did a good job and in Weiterings case a great job.....
If you have 5 forward, it means an extra mid or an extra back. The Cats had 56 I50's, and a number like that is an up-the-ground issue, the result of turnovers, lack of pressure etc. Not sure how an extra tall back would have been the difference between a win and a loss. Fix up our ball use, goal kicking, tackles that halt ball movement etc., and it's a whole other ball game IMO.
Thought Plowman was one of our best.
Effective tackles should be a stat as should failed tackles.......when you only play five players down forward you are always going be playing the game on the other teams terms and in their half. Thought our defenders did a good job and in Weiterings case a great job.....
Yes, just watched the presser. Mention how strong Geelong were the way they stood up in the tackle.
Said ball use going forward and kicking at goal is what killed us. Said you can't win games like that with that type of kicking at goal.
I know the Maths says we could make it but we are relying on other teams losing and I think Richmond and GWS will win their fair share between now and seasons end.
Honey and Fisher cant be any worse than Martin.....list management has been average, I know we have injuries but have had no KP defense back up and should have taken a tall KP in the mid season draft who can play both ends. Why we picked another small in Boyd is beyond me. Teague has his detractors but he up against it with what he has to work with...
I know you’re talking mid season draft, but we did take McDonald in the Pre season, who looked hand before getting injured.
So they did address it, sort of… 🙄
I never thought we’d win but I also didn’t think we’d have a multitude of scoring shots and if only for indirect kicking, could’ve been way in front either!
Ah extremely frustrating game to watch and hope not to see a repeat of again any time soon.
I hate the Cats and their whinging coach and players and am particularly still bitter at Henderson and Tuohy and wish them ZERO ultimate success at all.
Not sure who setters was on unless it was grass between players - if so, he did a good job manning it.
Also please for the love of all things, attack the ball when you’re marking, have awareness of your surrounds and no more dinky fcking kicks. Please.
Honey aint no midget.
Bad kicking is bad football.
Lack of composure lost us that one.
I lost count of the number of times we were in the box seat to score or create a scoring opportunity only to mis kick, fumble or choose the wrong option to the cats advantage and we were still half a chance.
Honey aint no midget.
Miles off AFL level from what I've seen, plays 5 minutes here or there in VFL at best.
I know you’re talking mid season draft, but we did take McDonald in the Pre season, who looked hand before getting injured.
So they did address it, sort of… 🙄
Obviously Mcdonald got injured and then we had zero left in the cupboard.
You add we never replaced Kerr and you would have thought a taller KP type would be more handy as insurance than another small to mid type in Boyd. It's not hindsight as we knew what we had on the list and gambled Jones and Weitering wouldnt get injured..
The better teams would never have paid what we did for this bloke. And yet there are still those who want to give him more chances.
Cameo player and even then it’s when it matters little then goes missing for big chunks of games and rarely if ever influences the outcome. Sadly we are paying A grade rates on a bloke that is nothing more then a C grader at best.
Whilst I agree, we cant a-hole the guy just yet. He lopes around with not much intensity and it craps me to tears.
When Samo kicked the first and then marked another dead in front, I thought we could be on here. His miss then set the scene and they just kept missing sitters. Game over.
Whilst I agree, we cant a-hole the guy just yet. He lopes around with not much intensity and it craps me to tears.
Got plenty of talent and his best is A grade but can't play 4 quarters or play a full season.
Always taped up and looks like he is carrying injuries, very frustrating player.
Got plenty of talent and his best is A grade but can't play 4 quarters or play a full season.
Always taped up and looks like he is carrying injuries, very frustrating player.
Then dont play him. He offered zero today.
Bad kicking is bad football.
Lack of composure lost us that one.
I lost count of the number of times we were in the box seat to score or create a scoring opportunity only to mis kick, fumble or choose the wrong option to the cats advantage and we were still half a chance.
Spot on, Thry. Every game we see that when opposition players with good foot skills get the ball they almost immediately make a positive decision about moving the ball to advantage.
On the other hand, so many Carlton players have a moment of indecision - will they kick the ball or look to handball because they don't have faith in their ability to hit a target. Consequently, sometimes under pressure, and sometimes not, we get bad handballs to team mates or a split second decision to kick the ball, usually ending in a turnover.
We are our own worst enemy.
Personally, as infuriating as it is to play well against sides we can't beat I was more than happy with the output of the players on the park today.
1. Effort. Plenty of it. All day. 4 quarters
2. Undermanned. Undersized. Refused to roll over.
3. Went the corridor. Didn't work some times but stuck to the task.
4. A lot of blokes were playing against the odds with the opponents they were tasked with but gave it their all. So what more can you ask for.
The biggest disappointment for me was that we play this well against good sides and play like crape against teams we should spank. Let's see how we go next week with the filth.
I mentioned before that when a team is playing well and are on top of the opposition fringe players can look better because the support is there to give them extra time to execute or cover their deficiencies.
When a team is facing a better class of opposition struggling players who aren't quite up to it are exposed because the support isn't there.
Team-mates are more concerned with their own responsibilities
It's why players can look a million dollars against an Adelaide but duds against a Geelong.
There are a group of players, though, who do the opposite.
When the support isn't there they just raise their own efforts and take their game to another level.
They're your elite.
Your A-graders
Your champions
Your Walsh and Weitering types. ;)
Effort was there, this was lost by the coaching staff. If we kicked accurately from our limited entries it would have masked what a poor game plan it was.
https://www.afl.com.au/news/443427/im-embarrassed-says-roos
I link this for reference, from 2014 :
Despite kicking just three goals (from 19 scoring shots), Roos said he wished fixing the problem was as easy as changing the game plan.
"I wish it was that simple ... [if it was] I'd happily change [the game plan]. You are assessing yourself as a coach all the time, there is no question, but just the simple errors ... just incredible," Roos said.
"If you have got an inability to hit targets, it's really hard to implement a game plan because you just can't execute the most basic skills."
I think he's right. When you can't hit targets, you turn the ball over frequently, can't make tackles stick, keep kicking behinds, IMO game plan is almost irrelevant. Add to this the almighty Review, and you have a football department distracted from the task at hand by unnecessary decisions.
A for effort, F for everything else.
Ironic given the kicking yesterday but....
Zac Tuohy (on the Sunday Footy Show) has just credited David Teague as being very helpful with his kicking back in his early days when Teague was a development coach at Carlton
Grant Thomas on Twitter :
https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/teams/carlton-blues/afl-news-2021-david-teague-press-conference-carlton-blues-poor-goalkicking-grant-thomas-twitter/news-story/c84fad2cec1a158087ca05081fa6e79a
“Carlton just have some very selfish players that are more interested in their own performance than team performance,” former St Kilda coach Grant Thomas wrote on Twitter.
“They’ve tried really hard, kicked inaccurately (because they don’t pass). Floodgates about to open big time I reckon.”
Obviously it's just one man's opinion, but the last 24 hours of his Twitter feed make for interesting reading. Sample :
I thought our endeavor was good and we stuck manfully to the defensive side of the game plan. Fifteen players unavailable for selection, six of them would be in the best twenty-two, five who would be the back ups and only four in the development phase of their career. It would be interesting to know how many out there are playing with injuries, besides Cripps, wouldn't be playing if we had more fit players on the list.
Some people around me were critical of the Coach and thought he should have come up with some killer move that would change the game, however I thought the coaching was fine as you can only play the hand you are dealt. I thought the match up were good and I thought there was a method of play that if executed well could have given us a pathway to victory. Unfortunately our decision making and skills were sub-par. I have no idea what Stocker was trying to do in the last quarter.
It is a question I use to ask regularly a couple of years ago. Do they actually practice their kicking? They practice in game scenarios and match game strategy and football intelligence, but do they actually practice the basic skills. Too many of our players don't kick with penetration or accuracy, both around the ground and at goal, and many can't kick fifty metres. If you can't kick to your team mates advantage and if you can't kick goals, then there is no game plan.
On the upside, I thought Silvagni has embraced his second ruck role, our defence has improved since the mid-field has tightened up, and I thought the fact we were able to have a number of straight forward shots on goal was good. The downside was our accuracy on goals, our decision making and skill execution coming out of defence and transitioning to the forwards was sometimes comical, and I thought a few of our senior players in Martin, Betts, Newman and Newnes, (though Newnes was placed in the media's best), were less than effective on the day than what we need if we are going to be competitive with the better sides.
A for effort and F for execution makes for another frustrating day at the football.
With our 5hit goalkicking, 5hit kicking going forward, where does that leaves Geelong. On face value (we know if they were goals the games changes but we'll run with it), if we kicked poorly for 6.10 instead of 2.14 at 3/4 time we'd be in front. No wonder a number of their fans said they were happy to just take the 4pts and move on.
With our 5hit goalkicking, 5hit kicking going forward, where does that leaves Geelong. On face value (we know if they were goals the games changes but we'll run with it), if we kicked poorly for 6.10 instead of 2.14 at 3/4 time we'd be in front. No wonder a number of their fans said they were happy to just take the 4pts and move on.
During the week they compared Geelong's scoring without Cameron in the first few rounds to with Cameron and they went form 12th in the comp to 1st.
Hopefully Charlie can do the same for us.
With our 5hit goalkicking, 5hit kicking going forward, where does that leaves Geelong. On face value (we know if they were goals the games changes but we'll run with it), if we kicked poorly for 6.10 instead of 2.14 at 3/4 time we'd be in front. No wonder a number of their fans said they were happy to just take the 4pts and move on.
Dads Army wont trouble the scorers in Sept thats for sure.
Dads Army wont trouble the scorers in Sept thats for sure.
I think with Cameron back and Blicavs free to ruck and roam around the ground they will be very dangerous. Just so cocky resting players were Geelong and I really want to see them bounced out of the finals early but I don't think it will happen. Henderson and Touhy with premierships would be depressing also..
It was obvious pre-game that we'd be too short, too weak, and undermanned in the ruck and defense. Unfortunately the late outs left us vulnerable. Under those circumstances our performance, particularly effort, focus, and persistence, was strong.
What I can't fathom though is why your captain with a leg injury would cover the ruck. Nothing structural they said, but he's previously broken his leg while he was still growing. Common sense tells you the jumping with giants game isn't your gig.
The tomahawk must be starting to dread lining up against young Weiters. Imagine what Weiters will be like when he hits his prime!
That's all good and lovely, but we lost Jones and Levi (the latter was a none event for 3.5 qtrs the previous week).
Atrocious kicking aside, we were never in the game after Q1.
Another big fail for mine. Plenty of blokes just didn't chip in, as should be the minimum. Williams, Martin, Setters.....
I won't be bagging Murph again (and hope he gets his 300).
Teague too - showing nothing to suggest he's a long term proposition imo.
I think with Cameron back and Blicavs free to ruck and roam around the ground they will be very dangerous. Just so cocky resting players were Geelong and I really want to see them bounced out of the finals early but I don't think it will happen. Henderson and Touhy with premierships would be depressing also..
When the whips are cracking in finals/big games, Cameron and Dangerfield go to water nothing surer.
Fun Fact: I was updating my predictor spreadsheet (as you do) and upon calculating our averaging losing margin for 2021, I calculated it to be, you guessed it, exactly 24 points.
Fun Fact: I was updating my predictor spreadsheet (as you do) and upon calculating our averaging losing margin for 2021, I calculated it to be, you guessed it, exactly 24 points.
Top work right there.
Out of curiosity, what's our average winning margin? Small sample I know!
When the whips are cracking in finals/big games, Cameron and Dangerfield go to water nothing surer.
In the past thats true but I think they are due and might get a return out of the Smith, Cameron, Higgins recruitment and make the GF this season.
I was wondering if I ever saw us kick worse at goal then remembered I was at the game against Hawthorn in 1980 when we kicked 14 points straight in the last qtr against Hawthorn to lose it. To add insult to injury, then Dominator kicked an impossible goal on his wrong foot after the siren, which saw as lose by 2pts.
I was wondering if I ever saw us kick worse at goal then remembered I was at the game against Hawthorn in 1980 when we kicked 14 points straight in the last qtr against Hawthorn to lose it. To add insult to injury, then Dominator kicked an impossible goal on his wrong foot after the siren, which saw as lose by 2pts.
Remember one in the early 90's at Whitten Oval when Mark Arceri kicked our only goal late in the last quarter
May have finished 1 10
I was wondering if I ever saw us kick worse at goal then remembered I was at the game against Hawthorn in 1980 when we kicked 14 points straight in the last qtr against Hawthorn to lose it. To add insult to injury, then Dominator kicked an impossible goal on his wrong foot after the siren, which saw as lose by 2pts.
What about the 1.10 with Mark Arceri kicking our only goal for the game in the last quarter?
EDIT: Bricky beat me too it.
Think Arceri's was a free that was dubious too....
https://www.blueseum.org/Round+11,+1991
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXow_agQDEM
Top work right there.
Out of curiosity, what's our average winning margin? Small sample I know!
20.8
In the past thats true but I think they are due and might get a return out of the Smith, Cameron, Higgins recruitment and make the GF this season.
Smith comes from the premiership factory and apart from the miss in the Prelim, he is a big game performer. Higgins will fill his shorts, Danger and Cameron will go to water as will Henderson and 2E.
What about the 1.10 with Mark Arceri kicking our only goal for the game in the last quarter?
EDIT: Bricky beat me too it.
Yes, that was was close to embarrassing. The free was dubious but thankfully we got it. The one saw with Hawthorn in 1980 the whole 14pts straight happened in one qtr, the last, in a game we lost by 2pts. I reckon that topped the one at the Western Oval marginally only for the fact we got beaten by 2pts rather than hammered like on the Arceri day.
Smith comes from the premiership factory and apart from the miss in the Prelim, he is a big game performer. Higgins will fill his shorts, Danger and Cameron will go to water as will Henderson and 2E.
I thought the latter two were shot and headed for oblivion but seem in rare form which is annoying.
Without Richmond in the frame I think Geelong will fancy themselves, just my opinion.
I thought the latter two were shot and headed for oblivion but seem in rare form which is annoying.
Without Richmond in the frame I think Geelong will fancy themselves, just my opinion.
The omen bet is Melbourne. The last time they won a flag the Olympics were in Tokyo.
I was wondering if I ever saw us kick worse at goal then remembered I was at the game against Hawthorn in 1980 when we kicked 14 points straight in the last qtr against Hawthorn to lose it. To add insult to injury, then Dominator kicked an impossible goal on his wrong foot after the siren, which saw as lose by 2pts.
Some of our History
More Behinds than goals
Carl 8.27.75 Ess 4.13.37 Rnd 4 1918 (at least we won)
Lost With More Scoring Shots
Carl 12.24.96 Footscray 15.8.98 Rnd 4 1948
Biggest Losses With More Scoring Shots
Carl 9.18.72 Haw 16.10.106 Rnd 2 1945
Biggest Losses
Carl 4.11.35 Haw 27.11.173 Haw Rnd 17 2015
Some of our History
More Behinds than goals
Carl 8.27.75 Ess 4.13.37 Rnd 4 1918 (at least we won)
Lost With More Scoring Shots
Carl 12.24.96 Footscray 15.8.98 Rnd 4 1948
Biggest Losses With More Scoring Shots
Carl 9.18.72 Haw 16.10.106 Rnd 2 1945
Biggest Losses
Carl 4.11.35 Haw 27.11.173 Haw Rnd 17 2015
1994 we lost to Essendon by a pt, 7.20.62 to 9.9.63.
1952 lost the 1st Semi Final to Fitzroy by a pt, 8.20.68 to 10.9.69.
Some of our History
More Behinds than goals
Carl 8.27.75 Ess 4.13.37 Rnd 4 1918 (at least we won)
Lost With More Scoring Shots
Carl 12.24.96 Footscray 15.8.98 Rnd 4 1948
Biggest Losses With More Scoring Shots
Carl 9.18.72 Haw 16.10.106 Rnd 2 1945
Biggest Losses
Carl 4.11.35 Haw 27.11.173 Haw Rnd 17 2015
Another example was a game at the Western Oval against Footscray that I had watched. We kicked something like 4 - 24 to lose. Alex Ruscuklic, our FF that season, kicked 1 goal 9 behinds from 12 shots. Had he kicked straight, he would have outscored the Dogs by himself. He had 15 marks that day, from memory. His goal was with his left foot off the ground in the goal square
Another example was a game at the Western Oval against Footscray that I had watched. We kicked something like 4 - 24 to lose. Alex Ruscuklic, our FF that season, kicked 1 goal 9 behinds from 12 shots. Had he kicked straight, he would have outscored the Dogs by himself. He had 15 marks that day, from memory. His goal was with his left foot off the ground in the goal square
Pretty sure this was the one :
https://www.blueseum.org/Round+19%2C+1974
Some of our History
More Behinds than goals
Carl 8.27.75 Ess 4.13.37 Rnd 4 1918 (at least we won)
Lost With More Scoring Shots
Carl 12.24.96 Footscray 15.8.98 Rnd 4 1948
Biggest Losses With More Scoring Shots
Carl 9.18.72 Haw 16.10.106 Rnd 2 1945
Biggest Losses
Carl 4.11.35 Haw 27.11.173 Haw Rnd 17 2015
The Carlton 12.24.96 in 1948 had one of the worst shots at goal I can remember. The Carlton player took a mark on the goal line, and from 5 yards out directly in front hit a point post on the full.
It was one of those days.
Pretty sure this was the one :
https://www.blueseum.org/Round+19%2C+1974
That was the one. the first time I went to Footscray. never did like the place.
I thought the latter two were shot and headed for oblivion but seem in rare form which is annoying.
Without Richmond in the frame I think Geelong will fancy themselves, just my opinion.
They do well against lesser opponents and in meaningless games at KP, watch what happens come finals time.
Coaches' votes :
Coaches' votes :
I would have put Weiters at 1 and Walsh at 2 but I guess even the coaches dont find a gun KPD sexy despite putting on a masterclass against one of the more experienced power fwds on the comp.
Interesting the Italian keeper was name player of the tournament, love a good defender I do. Gun Defences win premierships (and Championships) in any code.
I would have put Weiters at 1 and Walsh at 2 but I guess even the coaches dont find a gun KPD sexy despite putting on a masterclass against one of the more experienced power fwds on the comp.
Interesting the Italian keeper was name player of the tournament, love a good defender I do. Gun Defences win premierships (and Championships) in any code.
Agree I would have had Weitering as my BOG, degree of difficulty on Hawkins was very high.
I also find it hard to give a best on ground to Walsh when his opponent was Guthrie who was very damaging, love Sam as a player
but I rate accountability highly and while I had Sam slightly in front, the Geelong bloke had 30 odd possies and in simple terms they cancelled each other out but Weitering IMHO won his position well.
I would have put Weiters at 1 and Walsh at 2 but I guess even the coaches dont find a gun KPD sexy despite putting on a masterclass against one of the more experienced power fwds on the comp.
Interesting the Italian keeper was name player of the tournament, love a good defender I do. Gun Defences win premierships (and Championships) in any code.
Worst part is, only 1 coach gave Weitering votes at all!
Martin's form might relate to being a little distracted. Seems he's just got engaged.
Martin's form might relate to being a little distracted. Seems he's just got engaged.
He certainly doesn't look engaged with us.
Enough excuses. If you take the coin, do the job.
Martin's form might relate to being a little distracted. Seems he's just got engaged.
If that has one iota of truth (distracted due to engagement) thats a disgrace, pi$$ or get off the pot sunshine.
Damn straight brother
Worst part is, only 1 coach gave Weitering votes at all!
I've noticed this season more than ever AFLCA votes have fallen strongly along partisan lines.
Teague can't possibly be everything to everybody. Nor can any coach. Akermanis / Matthews but one example. Malthouse and Hardie another. We all can recall dozens of others, some quite intense. Who knows where this "discovery" might lead? One thing for certain .. players don't call the shots, save for Ian Stewart. And with him, deserved
https://www.sen.com.au/news/2021/07/12/did-magnificent-weitering-set-a-new-benchmark-in-guarding-tom-hawkins/
https://www.sen.com.au/news/2021/07/12/did-magnificent-weitering-set-a-new-benchmark-in-guarding-tom-hawkins/
Hawkins is in his twilight era, Weitering isn't yet at his peak, as the years pass the outcomes will bias towards Weitering more and more heavily.
The guys at SEN are past players, they speak about friends like a players form never leaves them and last forever like some legend, but it fades just as they have!
Hawkins is in his twilight era, Weitering isn't yet at his peak, as the years pass the outcomes will bias towards Weitering more and more heavily.
The guys at SEN are past players, they speak about friends like a players form never leaves them and last forever like some legend, but it fades just as they have!
Hawkins has kicked 37 goals this season. He's not exactly performing poorly or is yesterdays hero.
Hawkins has kicked 37 goals this season. He's not exactly performing poorly or is yesterdays hero.
That doesn't change the relationship, 2/3rds of those goals come from just six games.
For years people on here bashed Weitering as not suitable for playing on gorillas, for being soft, for being less than durable. At the weekend they talked Hawkins up as being a monster, and in the past he has been, but he barely fired a shot at stoppages and couldn't out wrestle Weitering or even the busted Cripps. Weitering is a rising star, Hawkins will still have some good games, but the trend lines are very very different.
Father time stops for no man!
That doesn't change the relationship, 2/3rds of those goals come from just six games.
For years people on here bashed Weitering as not suitable for playing on gorillas, for being soft, for being less than durable. At the weekend they talked Hawkins up as being a monster, and in the past he has been, but he barely fired a shot at stoppages and couldn't out wrestle Weitering or even the busted Cripps. Weitering is a rising star, Hawkins will still have some good games, but the trend lines are very very different.
Father time stops for no man!
Hrs currently 5th in the coleman. You are having a lend.
Hes also had 15 less scoring shots than Harry who's first and only 11 in front of him.
Minimising Hawkins detracts from Weiterings good performance not vice versa. It makes it less impressive to say he's not what he used to be.
No, not at all, Hawkin's 33 next week, anyone who thinks he is still at his peak or isn't somehow diminished by age is not being realistic.
That is in no way diminishing Weitering's efforts.
Weitering will be 24 in Nov, he is 3 years away from his peak and has kept Hawkins goalless in a Cameron less game, where Hawkins was the sole focus of the Handbagger forward entries.
The outcomes of contests from here on as games pass will favour Weitering more and more and more, it's the natural progression.
The hypersensitive old men about town will assert I'm trying to paint Hawkins as done and dusted, but that perspective is a deliberate extreme position born out of fear of aging.
Hawkins has good games left, just as Franklin has good games left, but there are less left in the kitty than those that have already passed!
Walsh was unbelievable and was the best player on the ground for either team.
Walsh was unbelievable and was the best player on the ground for either team.
He played like he wanted to defeat his brother's team, sibling rivalry?
Walsh was unbelievable and was the best player on the ground for either team.
How do we find another Sam Walsh or someone who can be 80% of Sam Walsh? That would really kickstart our rise and maintain it.
He played like he wanted to defeat his brother's team, sibling rivalry?
De Konings....
NOT WALSH'S.
How do we find another Sam Walsh or someone who can be 80% of Sam Walsh? That would really kickstart our rise and maintain it.
I know we'd never knock it back, but to me that is begging for the needle in a haystack when what we really need is a bunch more of the workmen like Ed Curnow types who can make the jobs of Walsh and Cripps much much easier. To me Ed's are much either to find than more of Walsh.
Having watched Owies and SoJ this season, I'd like another one or two of those. Imagine if Setterfield or Martin types could apply themselves like SoJ or Owies?
This time next season, BigH will hit those open targets he won't burn them.
If he keeps playing the selfish role he'll cost his team a game and team-mates will let him know, if after the feedback he keeps playing that way team-mates will then stop giving him preferential service he desires. They can't help but behave that way, it is subconscious thing all players and good KPFs have to learn.
The best forwards create as many goals for team-mates as they score.
De Konings....
NOT WALSH'S.
I thought Walsh's ruckmen brother is
on the Handbagger VFL list?
My bad, he's playing for Gold Coast in the VFL.
Imagine if Setterfield could apply themselves like SoJ or Owies?
Please don't darken my doorstep with his name. :)
Walsh has that Lethal-like ability to impact wherever he plays. If he plays forward he'll kick a goal or assist. If he's on the wing, he'll link up better than most on our list. If he plays inside, he will win the contested footy. Just a gun.
Walsh has that Lethal-like ability to impact wherever he plays. If he plays forward he'll kick a goal or assist. If he's on the wing, he'll link up better than most on our list. If he plays inside, he will win the contested footy. Just a gun.
Can we sign this guy to a 12 year deal?
Can we sign this guy to a 12 year deal?
Yep. I'd be happy to contribute.
If that has one iota of truth (distracted due to engagement) thats a disgrace, pi$$ or get off the pot sunshine.
Just a suggestion that may or may not contribute. Not a fact. Although the engagement is the latter.
Corralling has to be coached out of this side. Good opponents just walk away with the aggott.
This is a big one - understand it stops us from over-comitting, but it never really seems to work. Also, makes our guys look soft, and looks like they dont want to tackle. You lose the inspiration gained from a bone-shattering tackle.
This is a big one - understand it stops us from over-comitting, but it never really seems to work. Also, makes our guys look soft, and looks like they dont want to tackle. You lose the inspiration gained from a bone-shattering tackle.
Our lightweight list are more likely to hurt themselves than hurt an opponent, secondly we aren't overly blessed with speed and if you fail to stick a tackle you best have very good acceleration or the opponent is long long gone, so there may be very good reasons we seem to avoid heavy collisions.
Any Carlton player who lays a solid tackle will get weeks.
Grant Thomas on Twitter :
https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/teams/carlton-blues/afl-news-2021-david-teague-press-conference-carlton-blues-poor-goalkicking-grant-thomas-twitter/news-story/c84fad2cec1a158087ca05081fa6e79a
“Carlton just have some very selfish players that are more interested in their own performance than team performance,” former St Kilda coach Grant Thomas wrote on Twitter.
“They’ve tried really hard, kicked inaccurately (because they don’t pass). Floodgates about to open big time I reckon.”
Obviously it's just one man's opinion, but the last 24 hours of his Twitter feed make for interesting reading. Sample :
Jeeeesus - did anyone listed to Grant Thomas' opinion on anything, even when he was coaching? Now, how irrelevant is he? Was it Caro that called him "Cornflakes" (as he had been exited from so many coaches boxes)?
H passes off inside 50 - "youve gotta go back and take responsibility and kick those". He doesnt pass off - "he's selfish"
Jeeeesus - did anyone listed to Grant Thomas' opinion on anything, even when he was coaching? Now, how irrelevant is he? Was it Caro that called him "Cornflakes" (as he had been exited from so many coaches boxes)?
H passes off inside 50 - "youve gotta go back and take responsibility and kick those". He doesnt pass off - "he's selfish"
Agreed, you can't cherry-pick the odd gold nugget from a massive pile of turds and claim it's some sort of spring of revelation.
When you take all those specialist comments in total most of the individuals making them cause a weathervane look stoic, take that variability and chaos into a coaching box and you eventually crucify the whole playing list because every scenario becomes no-win.
Apologies in advance for my extreme cynicism, but is Dangerflog pumping up Sam Walsh's tyres any more than a begging for your consideration moment?
Dear Sam,
We love you lots and lots, please come down to Handbaggerville next contract?
Once again, we love you lots and lots, you look like our next captain!
In truth and hope, yours eternally,
Love Dangerflog
Hi Guys,
Just in case anybody on the site or if you knopw someone who was there in the MCC area on Sunday. Nothing to do with the footy as discussed ATM. Just L2 MCG MCC Members area on Sunday has been declared a Tier 2 site due to a positive case attending on Sunday. Details in below.
I was there on Sunday but thankfully I was in the AFL reserve.
https://www.coronavirus.vic.gov.au/exposure-sites
Apologies in advance for my extreme cynicism, but is Dangerflog pumping up Sam Walsh's tyres any more than a "Please Sam come down to Handbaggerville we love you! Love Dangerflog" begging for your consideration moment?
It's possible, especially given he grew up around there, and is an ex Falcon. But it's a pretty shallow and obvious attempt at persuasion. I imagine if Sammy wanted to go back, there's plenty of other things to sway him beyond unsolicited flattery. Taking off my Bluebagger goggles, if I had a choice between Geelong and Carlton, it would be a pretty easy one IMO.
Fun facts : Walsh grew up a Lions fans and his dad coached Gary Rohan and Ben Cunnington, both of whom still keep in touch apparently :
https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/afl-draft-2018-sam-walsh-talks-carlton-cobden-and-family-as-he-enters-draft-as-pick-1-favourite/news-story/bc88331a8f0eb816ef406bf1636074f4
Taking off my Bluebagger goggles, if I had a choice between Geelong and Carlton, it would be a pretty easy one IMO.
Yep
Easy choice...Captain of a premiership team in about five years or cellar dwellers with 'Dad's army' at the same time ;D ;D
Yep
Easy choice...Captain of a premiership team in about five years or cellar dwellers with 'Dad's army' at the same time ;D ;D
Correct. ;)