I am not confident this week.
Zero reason for not playing Charlie this week.
At least we know he would've put in effort for his brother.
6.5 to
13.4, after half time. That says it all.
COACH KILLER…….
COACH KILLER…….
Hopefully Liddle learned something with the Tigers review, and has figured out that it doesn't work. The "buck stops with the coach" is lazy decision making. If you can't or won't or don't know how to identify where the problems are, then you resort to cliched decision making.
Absolutely disgraceful effort. That goes close to being one of the most disappointing games from us that I have ever witnessed, especially against the bottom team with a place in the 8 at stake. Cue in rack.
It is always difficult to get the real picture of what happened listening to the radio rather than watching it on T.V. It did sound horrible after half time. Especially the damage caused in the third quarter specifically. One quarter completely killed our result. Where do you point the finger?
i thought we were competitive in the first half. Some early scoreboard pressure would have helped. Not sure what happened after half time. Blah.
Where do you point the finger?
For mine, at the strength and conditioning coach.
Too many injuries.....despite being somewhat overly cautious with blokes like Kemp and Curnow who have been fit and training form months.
Hopefully Liddle learned something with the Tigers review, and has figured out that it doesn't work. The "buck stops with the coach" is lazy decision making. If you can't or won't or don't know how to identify where the problems are, then you resort to cliched decision making.
The best leaders have always said, "The buck stops with me."
Could be an interesting week at PP.
For mine, at the strength and conditioning coach.
Too many injuries.....despite being somewhat overly cautious with blokes like Kemp and Curnow who have been fit and training form months.
I thought exactly the same thing. We looked knackered.
Until we have a few of our taller players back, we will continue to struggle.
De Koning got pounded in the ruck, which is the first time since he took the role. he has always been on 'better'rucks but has managed to contain them. Not today. Goldstein usually plays well against us. Last year Pitonett pounded the bugger, but Tom doesn't have the strength yet.
Disgusting weak effort and such a typical performance whenever we play in something that has a sliver of importance attached to it we fail time and time again.
All we deliver every year is excuses. We just need time, we are still too young, we need established players coming in the off season, we still need more mids, coach is a dud, umpires hate us and the AFL hate us, way too many injuries……….
Heard em all.
If you take off the blue glasses we are still a laughing stock have zero respect by the footy community and if we are honest they are right as with 4 weeks to go we could still end with another bottom 4 finish.
6 years into a rebuild folks.
Every fking year it’s the same BS.
Don't know why our massive injury list never scores a mention, but that was close to most pathetic, feeble effort we've dished up in a while. Mention finals and they poo their pants.
A couple of players I never, ever, want to see again this year. No excuses not to try others now - Honey, Kemp, Ramsay, Carroll.... Come on down.
From the first bounce the Intent was not there. They played last football, mis kicks everywhere and just lazy Insipid performances. Kicks directly to opponent time and again. I reckon they Thought it’d be an easy game and that we could clean up our inaccuracies like we have previously.
Nope not today.
They did not tackle with any kind of purpose and if I watch one more Carlton player trying to tackle and running past I’m going to barf.
Betts hurt something bad early on so was a no show from there. Cripps up forward didn’t work but that’s ok they had to try.
I think having JSOS as our fill in Ruck took his pressure away from the FWD line ans with no betts it was bomb it in long, no H so no one marked then Betts injured and no JSOS meant no pressure.
Dow does some good things but again kills momentum time and agai. With kicks direct to oppo. Same as Newman.
Pissed off today, had we started with real hard intent and accuracy we would’ve gone away with it I don’t doubt.
Williams has whst pulled another farking hamstring? Where do we find these injury ridden souls?
Also what is HOTB anymore? Please someone tell me as time and again our plays rotate them 3-4 times and nup still that’s fine! Irritating.
Out of the rabble I thought Cripps and Jack Martin were our best.
I’m Just about over Cottrell, willo, Owies, Kennedy, Dow.
Weiters had a crapter,
TDK has class ans will hopefully be great foe us
Watching the final few games for Murph now, surely they’ll let him play out the year and get his 300.
Absolutely disgraceful effort. That goes close to being one of the most disappointing games from us that I have ever witnessed, especially against the bottom team with a place in the 8 at stake. Cue in rack.
We did that last year as I recall. A similarly razor thin chance was blown.
I don't know what to think to be honest. All I know is we have an interesting few weeks ahead as the review progresses. That, like today's game, may put us ahead of Pies in the disgraced club stakes.
I thought exactly the same thing. We looked knackered.
Losing does that, deflates motivation. And our motivation is fragile enough to begin with. Noble knew that, and other things, about us and coached accordingly. We were obliterated long before players looked tired. The Kangabies came out after half time with even more endeavour... which the scoreboard reflected.
Covid did us a favour... none of us could be at the ground to sit through that spiritless 2nd half.
We did that last year as I recall. A similarly razor thin chance was blow.
I don't know what to think to be honest. All I know is we have an interesting few weeks ahead as the review progresses. That, like today's game, may put us ahead of Pies in the disgraced club stakes.
Yes, Eddie seemed particularly pleased with our performance.
Half expected a loss with what we put out there. Didn't expect that 2nd half.
We don't have that inner drive to consistently play with intensity every week. We did it for a few weeks after the bye but the motivation isn't there to keep doing it. External motivation was there, a shot at the 8, but the problem is the players have to care enough.
Reminded me of the Gold Coast game in 2012. Had to win to make the finals and we showed a complete lack of effort. Stamped Ratten's papers, something we have paid for ever since. We need to get to the root of the problem in the club otherwise nothing is fixed. We will continue to waste year after year.
The best leaders have always said, "The buck stops with me."
Could be an interesting week at PP.
I couldn't really tell you what the best leaders have said. If Teague goes to Liddle and tells him "the buck stops with me" then Liddle should properly fob him off with something like "you're very noble, but I have no time for martyrdom or stupidity. The buck stops with the actual source of the problem, not with yet another sacrifice to to the footy Gods. Now get back to work and stop talking cr@p."
For mine, at the strength and conditioning coach.
Too many injuries.....despite being somewhat overly cautious with blokes like Kemp and Curnow who have been fit and training form months.
I think that's part of it.
We seem to have a few too many of those lighter frames that get pushed aside in the physical contests.
One of the commentators was saying before the game that in the competition this year, if you're just the slightest bit off in terms of effort and pressure you're in a bit of strife.
There was a point early on in the game where we applied some terrific forward pressure and the commentators made special mention of it...the effect of that was that it gave us a clear point of contrast for the lack of pressure later in the game.
It was disappointing, but it's probably time now to draw a line under the season.
While the chance of finals, however unlikely, was still there it probably delayed some of the tasks that we need to get done in preparation for 2022....games for youngsters, clean-ups, minor ops etc.
Let's get it done and get ready for a good solid off-season.
i thought we were competitive in the first half. Some early scoreboard pressure would have helped. Not sure what happened after half time. Blah.
It was pretty obvious one team went out there to play like cocky millionaires (take hangers, kick flue banana dribble goals and not do one basic thing right). The other team did the basics right (especially after qtr time), worked hard, ran two ways for each other and created opportunities by exploiting to the maximum the zero pressure we applied. I'm not worried about losing against another bottom side like we are (anyone who thinks we aren't is kidding themselves), its how we lost.
We are miles off being a good side, sadly.
Covid did us a favour... none of us could be at the ground to sit through that spiritless 2nd half.
I turned it off early in the 3rd, I would have got up and left if I as at the ground.
even if harry played today ,we would have lost (1 player) north play that quick running modern football that was my concern going into the game that we can not match teams that play in this manner it has being happening for years . We play this stupid long u12 bomb into f50 opp just run it out . Teague needs to change this but maybe it is to late for him . Roos supporters would be so proud tonight not by winning but the system they have works ,beat eagles in perth ,our system is F...k.d
The irony is not lost on me. We lost two players that do a lot more without the ball than with it in betts and Williams before half time and then we fell to pieces. Each miss in the first half contributed to the belief slowly leaving the team. Had we kicked even 4.3 to quarter time instead of 2.5 it would have made a big difference.
If your not fit enough you don’t chase…
If your not strong enough you don’t tackle..
If your mentally soft you will struggle…
I’ve been saying all year that MR Russell and co need replacing.
As for the mental side of it I put it down to to many nice coaches holding the kids hands.
I know, old school, back in my day.
Unfortunately we can’t replace the dead wood because of the injuries.
I can hear the coach now, we need all our reserve players in form before we bring them in. Roll our sleeves up. Get back to basics. BLA FARKING BLA BLA
It was pretty obvious one team went out there to play like cocky millionaires (take hangers, kick flue banana dribble goals and not do one basic thing right). The other team did the basics right (especially after qtr time), worked hard, ran two ways for each other and created opportunities by exploiting to the maximum the zero pressure we applied. I'm not worried about losing against another bottom side like we are (anyone who thinks we aren't is kidding themselves), its how we lost.
We are miles off being a good side, sadly.
Nutshell.
I read an article with Curnow during the week and in it they said if we win all 5 games we’ll be in the 8 and he said yeah we’re just looking to reset for next year and finishing strongly will hold us in good stead for next year - or along those lines. Was not talk to me of a team that was busting to win all our remaining games to make the 8 at all.
we did the same last year.
Is it a case that if everything’s not going 100% right, we write off the season rather than cracking in Ebert damn game? Seems it to me. And that pisses me off!
Every game offers the opportunity for another player to stand up, to make more of their game, to announce themselves to AFL yet here we are still a possibility to make the 8 and being that crap. Inexcuseable!
Nutshell.
Lets be honest, we've been NM's bitches for a long time, we have only beaten them 6 times in the last 20. They take great pleasure in giving it to us, its ingrained in them, has been for a long time.
Looking at the stats and North's 3 main mids had 22 clearances between them. Our entire struggled to get that many. That tells you almost all you need to know. If we are not getting use of the ball, then we're always under pressure, and that makes you look slow.
Then, when we get the ball, who is there to kick to? Nobody in the forward half to take a contested mark.
It is disappointing to see so little energy, but no team is going to win when they can't get the ball out of the middle.
I hope H and Charlie are ready for next week. We need something down forward.
What we are going to do in the ruck, I don't know. TDK is the future, but he needs someone with the strength to compete with the giants. And we don't use him well around the ground. He should be getting 10 or 11 marks per game, if we kicked it to him reasonably. We don't tend to look for him enough.
It has made we wonder all year why we haven't promoted Crocker. He has shown a lot in the VFL. Granted he is no giant, but can't we learn how to pass a ball to a leading forward? We did it for Pearce and it worked brilliantly. Or have out coaches forgotten that?
I like Teague, but when we don't turn up so often, and when get out-coached like we were today, then it makes his position pretty difficult.
I'd also be looking to trade out some of the players. Although a new coach might make a difference there.
We have a lot of improvement in us, but it is about time we started showing some of it. There isn't a lot of excuse now not to play guys like Honey, etc. But until we show up, I don't know if they'll want to play.
It was pretty obvious one team went out there to play like cocky millionaires (take hangers, kick flue banana dribble goals and not do one basic thing right). The other team did the basics right (especially after qtr time), worked hard, ran two ways for each other and created opportunities by exploiting to the maximum the zero pressure we applied. I'm not worried about losing against another bottom side like we are (anyone who thinks we aren't is kidding themselves), its how we lost.
We are miles off being a good side, sadly.
The captain and senior players should be setting the tone on field. A lot left to be desired in that dept imho.
Looking at the stats and North's 3 main mids had 22 clearances between them. Our entire struggled to get that many. That tells you almost all you need to know. If we are not getting use of the ball, then we're always under pressure, and that makes you look slow.
Then, when we get the ball, who is there to kick to? Nobody in the forward half to take a contested mark.
It is disappointing to see so little energy, but no team is going to win when they can't get the ball out of the middle.
I hope H and Charlie are ready for next week. We need something down forward.
What we are going to do in the ruck, I don't know. TDK is the future, but he needs someone with the strength to compete with the giants. And we don't use him well around the ground. He should be getting 10 or 11 marks per game, if we kicked it to him reasonably. We don't tend to look for him enough.
It has made we wonder all year why we haven't promoted Crocker. He has shown a lot in the VFL. Granted he is no giant, but can't we learn how to pass a ball to a leading forward? We did it for Pearce and it worked brilliantly. Or have out coaches forgotten that?
I like Teague, but when we don't turn up so often, and when get out-coached like we were today, then it makes his position pretty difficult.
I'd also be looking to trade out some of the players. Although a new coach might make a difference there.
We have a lot of improvement in us, but it is about time we started showing some of it. There isn't a lot of excuse now not to play guys like Honey, etc. But until we show up, I don't know if they'll want to play.
We were demolished and bullied in the middle of the ground and around the ball pretty much all day. H, Charlie, Kernahan, Lockett, Dunstall and Ablett Snr combined wouldn't have made one iota of difference today.
The captain and senior players should be setting the tone on field. A lot left to be desired in that dept imho.
Totally agree
The captain and senior players should be setting the tone on field. A lot left to be desired in that dept imho.
Agree
The captain and senior players should be setting the tone on field. A lot left to be desired in that dept imho.
That's a big issue. Culture isn't strong enough. Don't fix it and we talk about this in 20 years.
That's a big issue. Culture isn't strong enough. Don't fix it and we talk about this in 20 years.
Said the same thing 20 years ago!
We can't even cobble together a "senior" group. And F off Murphy, you don't deserve the 300. You can join him Russell
That's a big issue. Culture isn't strong enough. Don't fix it and we talk about this in 20 years.
But laj, you keep telling us that we're so close. Go on, give us a laj stat. Here, I'll get you started... If Murphy had 500 possessions we would have won....
Ok, now you go... 🤣
But laj, you keep telling us that we're so close. Go on, give us a laj stat. Here, I'll get you started... If Murphy had 500 possessions we would have won....
Ok, now you go... 🤣
There it is. ;D
We need a new focus on selfless leadership. There is a disturbing element of ‘look at me, I’m a star’ in the team - without mentioning names. Start by fixing that and go on from there. I’m confident it would pay dividends.
Lets be honest, we've been NM's bitches for a long time, we have only beaten them 6 times in the last 20. They take great pleasure in giving it to us, its ingrained in them, has been for a long time.
Didn't we get the win last year?
I don't subscribe to the effect of ancient history. I do acknowledge the disruption this year related to injuries and the review though. Nevertheless, today's performance was dismal aside perhaps 1 quarter.
But laj, you keep telling us that we're so close. Go on, give us a laj stat. Here, I'll get you started... If Murphy had 500 possessions we would have won....
Ok, now you go... 🤣
No, I don't. Do your research. That isn't me. I know it is hard for your pea brain, if you even have that.
Only turns up when we lose. Just detestable and weak as piss. Has to be better humans around.
Missed you the last few weeks. We must've gone well. Says everything about you.
But laj, you keep telling us that we're so close. Go on, give us a laj stat. Here, I'll get you started... If Murphy had 500 possessions we would have won....
Ok, now you go... 🤣
You have had a bad day. The Blues were terrible. Things can get any worse then.....
We need a new focus on selfless leadership. There is a disturbing element of ‘look at me, I’m a star’ in the team - without mentioning names. Start by fixing that and go on from there. I’m confident it would pay dividends.
Accountable, uncompromising leadership is what we need. Peer pressure. Players don't buy in they cop it from there mates.
Well we now have the worst/highest 'scores against' in the league (though Dawks & Crows might surpass us this w/e)... and have conceded more 100pts against than any other club. Well, we're the 'most' at something!
We can't even cobble together a "senior" group. And F off Murphy, you don't deserve the 300. You can join him Russell
Seriously? You think leaving him on 297 when he was our best player for years and has sacrificed himself with injuries over that time not to mention been the captain, would be good for culture? Gtfo. Dumb comment.
He is done and he would know that but to deny him the 300 would be grossly repulsive.
No, I don't. Do your research. That isn't me. I know it is hard for your pea brain, if you even have that.
Only turns up when we lose. Just detestable and weak as piss. Has to be better humans around.
Missed you the last few weeks. We must've gone well. Says everything about you.
But, but.... Surely in the laj stat world, if every team above Carlton lose every game by 300 points for the remaining rounds and Carlton win all their remaining games by... Oh I don't know, let's say 509 points, we're in... Am I doing it right?... 🤣
Just tired of arguing about Murphy.... And utterly tired of this pathetic excuse for a so-called "professional" sporting organisation.
Got to give Murf the last 3 games …..
Play him in the fwd pocket. The ball won’t get down there anyway…..
Seriously? You think leaving him on 297 when he was our best player for years and has sacrificed himself with injuries over that time not to mention been the captain, would be good for culture? Gtfo. Dumb comment.
He is done and he would know that but to deny him the 300 would be grossly repulsive.
In your opinion ... "sacrifice" means standing aside for the effin' club, not your personal glory. So GTFO.
Funny, I said in the pre-game players would be unlucky to be dropped based on the Collingwood performance. This week it's hard to find anyone that wouldn't be dropped.
Eddie - non-event.
Owies - bugger all
Stocker - a shocker ( a week is a long time in football isn't it?)
Cottrell - bloody hell
Willo - God help me
SPS - Ghost
Weitering - worst game for the year
Fisher - zero impact
Slight chance of making finals. Playing a very winnable game. Fail dismally. Reminds me of a one of my favourite Elton John songs. "I've seen that movie too".
::)
In your opinion ... "sacrifice" means standing aside for the effin' club, not your personal glory. So GTFO.
Sacrificing his body over the years and if he thought he could play another season and our medical and fitness staff agreed, how is that his fault?
Murph was subbed on in the second half, into a team that Altho was in front by 2 pts certainly wasn’t doing anything that gave me
Any belief that we wouldn’t get done by 10 goals, but it’s his fault we lost? Right o. And he is holding the spot of who exactly in the team? Who should be in in his place?
Yes you reward club champions at the end of their careers if you can, and lucky for us finals aren’t a factor and there’s no one else pushing for his spot. So he gets his 300.
Re Williams - did he come to us with hamstring issues? Is this not the 3rd time he’s come off because of his hamstring???
That's a big issue. Culture isn't strong enough. Don't fix it and we talk about this in 20 years.
Its all between the ears I reckon. We have high end talent, great facilities, ok coaches (supposedly) it only leaves the mental fortitude side of the game.
Re Williams - did he come to us with hamstring issues? Is this not the 3rd time he’s come off because of his hamstring???
I think his main injuries were Achilles related.
15-7 Inside 50's at quarter time.
29-23 at Half Time.
Our ball use is poor at the best of times, but we just wasted chances. Our structure was horrid with no Harry. Bombing the ball long with Cripps wanting to wrestle a 200cm Ben McKay the way he does Midfielders was silly. 175cm small forwards trying to take mark of the year seemed our best tactic. It's looked like we had no plan for life without a key forward.
Out-matched
Out-classed
Out-muscled
Out-sized
Out-coached
Out-psyched
Out-run
Too many outs😖
It was like two different teams before and after half time. Not sure what went down during the break.
The one thing that stood out for me was the total lack of respect we held for our opponents. Just a pathetic attitude which probably explains why we continually play our worst games against our worst opponents.
The one thing that stood out for me was the total lack of respect we held for our opponents. Just a pathetic attitude which probably explains why we continually play our worst games against our worst opponents.
IMO this is a symptom of immature and ineffective leadership.
Poor effort in terms of work rate, soft or non tackling, plenty of spectating and a few blokes more interested in mark of the week than proper solid footy. Nth had good results with some matchups vs some of our key players especially Simpkin vs Walsh.
They like playing us and seem to have that confidence that if they go a bit harder at the ball we will lose interest.
Cunnington and Anderson were big ins for them in terms of hardened mids and we just struggled with their big bodies at the clearances LDU vs Dow was an interesting comparison, Dow has speed but the Nth kid is a big hard unit and has improved a lot.
We had injuries which upset our balance with Kennedy having to play forward but we just seemed off all day and I thought Nth had more good players all over the ground.
Not often our defense is monstered but Larkey was all over our tall defenders and it was our lazy non chasing mids who contributed heavily to the demise of our defenders.
The players owe Teague who will come under more pressure and it was their fault we lost today and not his .But this wont help the speculation about his job and if the Review Panel want to sack him then the players handed his head on a plate to them today.
15-7 Inside 50's at quarter time.
29-23 at Half Time.
Our ball use is poor at the best of times, but we just wasted chances. Our structure was horrid with no Harry. Bombing the ball long with Cripps wanting to wrestle a 200cm Ben McKay the way he does Midfielders was silly. 175cm small forwards trying to take mark of the year seemed our best tactic. It's looked like we had no plan for life without a key forward.
And who's responsible for that?
The players owe Teague who will come under more pressure and it was their fault we lost today and not his .But this wont help the speculation about his job and if the Review Panel want to sack him then the players handed his head on a plate to them today.
EB, Clearly and I mean CLEARLY the players are no longer on the TT and he will be the next in a long line of coaches to get the Carlton special treatment. Seriously why would you want to coach this mob given the history. Regardless of how many times Teague talks about his "belief" in the group I don't think the feeling is mutual.
The one thing that stood out for me was the total lack of respect we held for our opponents. Just a pathetic attitude which probably explains why we continually play our worst games against our worst opponents.
BANG!!! Dunno that I agree with last bit, we are bottom of the ladder just like NM, the rest, spot on. To me, NM have always made a point of giving it to us every time they play us. They have never forgotten Elliotts taunts of buying them out and they make sure they "rub our faces in the turf" every time they play us. And as EB calls them, our choir boys do nothing other than drop the strides and assume the position. This crap HAS to stop.
But, but.... Surely in the laj stat world, if every team above Carlton lose every game by 300 points for the remaining rounds and Carlton win all their remaining games by... Oh I don't know, let's say 509 points, we're in... Am I doing it right?... 🤣
Enough is enough. bad enough we lose, but when we mock each other, we become the rabble we don't want to be. Now, play nicely!
BANG!!! Dunno that I agree with last bit, we are bottom of the ladder just like NM, the rest, spot on. To me, NM have always made a point of giving it to us every time they play us. They have never forgotten Elliotts taunts of buying them out and they make sure they "rub our faces in the turf" every time they play us. And as EB calls them, our choir boys do nothing other than drop the strides and assume the position. This crap HAS to stop.
Indeed. It is about time we lifted against the mob, instead of the opposite. They have owned us for too long, last year's game not withstanding.
I am sick and tired of the roadkill making idiots out of us.
We were behind the 8 ball to begin with. The outs and reshuffle had a domino effect. Cripps forward robs us of our best contested ball player, giving their mids an immediate advantage - him playing forward results in different leading patterns, running patterns etc. for the mids. Weitering and Walsh had their quietest / worst games in ages. Silvagni / TDK v Goldy was a match made in hell. The back 6, indeed the whole team looked confused, especially after half time.
I realise some will see all this as p1ss weak excuses, but pretty much every team will put in a shocker at least once per season, and this was ours.
We were behind the 8 ball to begin with. The outs and reshuffle had a domino effect. Cripps forward robs us of our best contested ball player, giving their mids an immediate advantage - him playing forward results in different leading patterns, running patterns etc. for the mids. Weitering and Walsh had their quietest / worst games in ages. Silvagni / TDK v Goldy was a match made in hell. The back 6, indeed the whole team looked confused, especially after half time.
I realise some will see all this as p1ss weak excuses, but pretty much every team will put in a shocker at least once per season, and this was ours.
Agreed, ironically many of those now posting grossly offended perspectives were actually predicting this in the pre-game thread, especially once the late changes were known.
I don't get the synthetic post game rage if the someone raging predicted this result, ......... trolls maybe?
And North had almost their best 22 on the park.
As awful as that was i find it hard to be too hard on the team today. North aren't a wooden spoon team right now and we had way too many injuries and then we lost Harry.
Jack in the ruck, Owies / Eddie as the long marking target... its not sustainable.
No team in the comp can cover 15 or 16 injuries. The competition is too close.
We were behind the 8 ball to begin with. The outs and reshuffle had a domino effect. Cripps forward robs us of our best contested ball player, giving their mids an immediate advantage - him playing forward results in different leading patterns, running patterns etc. for the mids. Weitering and Walsh had their quietest / worst games in ages. Silvagni / TDK v Goldy was a match made in hell. The back 6, indeed the whole team looked confused, especially after half time.
I realise some will see all this as p1ss weak excuses, but pretty much every team will put in a shocker at least once per season, and this was ours.
I think the way we lost was the issue and attitude from the players. We lacked resources in terms of talls but that doesn't excuse work rate, spectating, non chasing and non tackling.
We had finals to play for, Eds 200th and a coaches career but that wasn't enough to motivate enough players to dig deep and try so losing imo wasn't the issue it was more how we lost...
I think the way we lost was the issue and attitude from the players. We lacked resources in terms of talls but that doesn't excuse work rate, spectating, non chasing and non tackling.
We had finals to play for, Eds 200th and a coaches career but that wasn't enough to motivate enough players to dig deep and try so losing imo wasn't the issue it was more how we lost...
So disappointing to lose like we did. We had so much to play for. Unless we fix that culture it won't matter whether we change the coach or not. The issues will be the same as will the results.
Indeed. It is about time we lifted against the mob, instead of the opposite. They have owned us for too long, last year's game not withstanding.
I am sick and tired of the roadkill making idiots out of us.
We have been road kill mate for the last 6 years.
All talk no action just excuses.
Q3 was 7.2 to 0.4.
Embarrassing.
I think the way we lost was the issue and attitude from the players. We lacked resources in terms of talls but that doesn't excuse work rate, spectating, non chasing and non tackling.
We had finals to play for, Eds 200th and a coaches career but that wasn't enough to motivate enough players to dig deep and try so losing imo wasn't the issue it was more how we lost...
If this theory is true (I don't agree with it myself, but anyway.....), then sacking a coach plays right into their hands, because instead of being made accountable, they are handed a scapegoat on a platter. And if that happens, you need to look at who allows that to happen, and who allows that culture to fester and take hold. And that, my dear Brother Elwood, leads to either the Board, or Executive, or both.
If this theory is true (I don't agree with it myself, but anyway.....), then sacking a coach plays right into their hands, because instead of being made accountable, they are handed a scapegoat on a platter. And if that happens, you need to look at who allows that to happen, and who allows that culture to fester and take hold. And that, my dear Brother Elwood, leads to either the Board, or Executive, or both.
Paul, I think most can cop losing when you are down on numbers with so many injuries but we had too many players not giving effort and that is what drives supporters more insane than losing 4 points.
I have held the belief the Review is more of a theatrical exercise of the CEO's doing and that Teague needs a miracle to survive and that may come down to who is available and who wants the job. IMHO he survives if the likes of Clarko, Lyon or maybe even Hardwick say No and there are no other big name options. Losing to Nth in the manner we did just adds another bullet to a remaining empty chamber for him to fire.
Very disappointed for Teague after today, he deserves a better effort than what he got even with all our injuries..
There was one bright note on the day...Stocker's underpants. :o
There was one bright note on the day...Stocker's underpants. :o
You would want to be a tough hombre to get away with wearing those colourful undies.
Paul, I think most can cop losing when you are down on numbers with so many injuries but we had too many players not giving effort and that is what drives supporters more insane than losing 4 points.
Right on point EB ...
It was pretty obvious one team went out there to play like cocky millionaires (take hangers, kick flue banana dribble goals and not do one basic thing right). The other team did the basics right (especially after qtr time)..................................................................................
........................
Teague said this in his presser, but for different reasons. He said the players went away from doing the basics when the game was starting to get away, and the boys saw that the basics weren't working (or they weren't executing) and tried to lift the team with party tricks. He also said clearances were a big problem (no Cripps), skill errors were a problem, and North players being allowed to stand up and dish off in tackles. gave credit to North for work rate and cleaner skills.
Teague said this in his presser, but for different reasons. He said the players went away from doing the basics when the game was starting to get away, and the boys saw that the basics weren't working (or they weren't executing) and tried to lift the team with party tricks. He also said clearances were a big problem (no Cripps), skill errors were a problem, and North players being allowed to stand up and dish off in tackles. gave credit to North for work rate and cleaner skills.
When you dont have an opponent or anyone chasing you your skills are usually cleaner.
Our tackling was schoolboy like... Nine tackles only in the make or break 3rd quarter..
The only positive I get from today's loss is the fact that the Review members have not yet concluded their deliberations.
On display today was a team selected from what is left after many injuries of an already poor list with too many players not up to AFL standard.
I feel sorry for Teague. If there is a leadership group of senior players it exists in name only. There is a complete lack of on-field leadership when pressure comes from the opposition and consequently most players play just for themselves.
I hope the Review is not a con. If it is, as has been suggested, then I don't know what the future holds for Carlton.
The last thing we need is a media pile on, Teague is going to be lucky to last the week at this rate... You'd think the Roos won the flag with the sycophantic media coverage. They beat an average side, having a $hit day, missing basically the entire forward half.
May seem a little thing but not to me.
Cripps after kicking his 3rd goal gave a little celebration which I reckon says a fair bit about us as a club imo. Hes done this another time last year when we were getting pumped in a game a game we again were favourites to win.
He’s 3rd goal today came with just a few seconds left in the game and at a point where our season was officially over yet again yet our captain even if for a few seconds is pleased on a personal front for kicking his third goal.
Can you imagine any other captain showing any joy at that time of the match considering the result?
Our club on so many levels is way off the ruthless level you need to be to be successful.
Well the captain before him kind of set the scene didn't he?
Half these flogs parading around in our jumper calling themselves "football players"
Need to take a good hard look at themselves.
Get off instagram and stop making crap podcasts you weak wannabes - you make me sick.
Try actually putting in the hard yards and focus on your craft - not your f@kin skin care sponsor.
AND
Zac Fisher, you wanna roll with that crap hair cut, you'd wanna snag a goal or lay a tackle mate - otherwise you just look like a complete an utter little A grade flog.
Don’t know what all the suprise doom and gloom is about, we had no key forwards against Tarrant and McKay who held out the West Coast forward line in Perth recently, trying to use Cripps or Kennedy as forwards was only robbing Peter to pay Paul admittedly delivery wasn’t very good but the blokes who have been clearing the way for Walsh etc to deliver we’re standing in the forward line waiting for it. TDK was given a lesson by a bloke who has been one of the best ruckman in the league for nearly 10 he’s crafty,strong and a great tap ruck and has toweled up many a athletic opponent in his time. He tapped it to Cunnington on of the real good clearance mid fielders and a bull. Our bull was trying to play full forward. Larkey had a day out but is a good developing FF who enjoyed having Cunnington and Anderson kicking it to him.
They were able to play a game style they have been building and started to do well with chalking up a victory over the Eagles in Perth and a draw against Giants. We were trying to play a game foreign to us and held on in the first half but then the wheels fell off and we completely lost our way. No team can absorb the injuries we had for this game especially to key forwards one or two of McKay Charlie Gov Casboult even McDonald would have helped Pittonet or Casboult and TDK rucking allowing Silvagni to be #3 tall forward and moving Cripps and Kennedy back to the midfield..
As for Murphy those on here sh…tcanning him have short memories of someone who has served this club with distinction through some bloody tough years hoping we would improve enough for a flag shot in time for him to be part of it not p..ssing off to Geelong only to be let down by those in the background recruiting poorly and appointing coaches. One who tore our heart out by selfishness then one who took us back to square one starting over. He stuck around to give some experience it would be an honour to have him as a 300 game Carlton player and he deserves to be given those games that is how you build club culture. It’s hard enough to play one game but someone like Murphy has played nearly 300 and doesn’t deserve to be criticised by losers on here who haven’t had the talent or guts to play 1
Don’t know what all the suprise doom and gloom is about, we had no key forwards against Tarrant and McKay who held out the West Coast forward line in Perth recently, trying to use Cripps or Kennedy as forwards was only robbing Peter to pay Paul admittedly delivery wasn’t very good but the blokes who have been clearing the way for Walsh etc to deliver we’re standing in the forward line waiting for it. TDK was given a lesson by a bloke who has been one of the best ruckman in the league for nearly 10 he’s crafty,strong and a great tap ruck and has toweled up many a athletic opponent in his time. He tapped it to Cunnington on of the real good clearance mid fielders and a bull. Our bull was trying to play full forward. Larkey had a day out but is a good developing FF who enjoyed having Cunnington and Anderson kicking it to him.
They were able to play a game style they have been building and started to do well with chalking up a victory over the Eagles in Perth and a draw against Giants. We were trying to play a game foreign to us and held on in the first half but then the wheels fell off and we completely lost our way. No team can absorb the injuries we had for this game especially to key forwards one or two of McKay Charlie Gov Casboult even McDonald would have helped Pittonet or Casboult and TDK rucking allowing Silvagni to be #3 tall forward and moving Cripps and Kennedy back to the midfield..
As for Murphy those on here sh…tcanning him have short memories of someone who has served this club with distinction through some bloody tough years hoping we would improve enough for a flag shot in time for him to be part of it not p..ssing off to Geelong only to be let down by those in the background recruiting poorly and appointing coaches. One who tore our heart out by selfishness then one who took us back to square one starting over. He stuck around to give some experience it would be an honour to have him as a 300 game Carlton player and he deserves to be given those games that is how you build club culture. It’s hard enough to play one game but someone like Murphy has played nearly 300 and doesn’t deserve to be criticised by losers on here who haven’t had the talent or guts to play 1
Fair post that.
Good post Tommy.
Perhaps after today we should realise we're closer to being a wooden spoon club than finalist. From here where do we think we'll finish, closer to 8th or 18th?
This is what happens when you do not go through a proper process in appointing the important, critically important position of senior coach of a leading sporting organisation. And that is on Liddle. Appointed popular as opposed to best.
Well, Sayers, are you another in the continuum of impotent Presidents of the CFC over our recent history, or do you know what it takes to be gladiatorial, and lead gladiators to a premiership?
You know, Cripps get stick for not kicking well or kicking goals. So screwing what if he seems pleased that he got the result even if we did lose. You can never say that he doesn’t put in 100% every single time he plays. Let him have a bit of self enjoyment occasionally fgs.
Last week he was clapping in the box and fist pumping on the ground after the win - personally I like seeing him as the Everyman happy with a win, geeing up the boys when possible snd being down on himself when he fcks up and proud of himself when he nails it!
Perhaps after today we should realise we're closer to being a wooden spoon club than finalist. From here where do we think we'll finish, closer to 8th or 18th?
This is what happens when you do not go through a proper process in appointing the important, critically important position of senior coach of a leading sporting organisation. And that is on Liddle. Appointed popular as opposed to best.
Well, Sayers, are you another in the continuum of impotent Presidents of the CFC over our recent history, or do you know what it takes to be gladiatorial, and lead gladiators to a premiership?
Would it have made a difference? Hasn't so far in 20 years. Player motivation comes from within and only peer pressure will drive it. Coach can only encourage. Teague has actually the 2nd best record here by far (low bar admittedly but some bigger names have gone worse). The players did this to Ratten, round 22, 2012, when they lost to a depleted Gold Coast, 2nd bottom, showing little effort, when we need to win to get into the 8. It stamped Ratten's papers and we have regretted that move ever since. He was the one who at least got something out of us, even though our bad culture, which showed up in that game. Players don't have the will to be a good side. Haven't for 20 years.
Perhaps after today we should realise we're closer to being a wooden spoon club than finalist. From here where do we think we'll finish, closer to 8th or 18th?
This is what happens when you do not go through a proper process in appointing the important, critically important position of senior coach of a leading sporting organisation. And that is on Liddle. Appointed popular as opposed to best.
Well, Sayers, are you another in the continuum of impotent Presidents of the CFC over our recent history, or do you know what it takes to be gladiatorial, and lead gladiators to a premiership?
The team that has been on top all year (albeit not after tonight) is the same team that has struggled for the past couple of years.
You know what the difference is this year? They haven't been cruelled by injuries!
FFS people can hope and want all they want, but without players available what do you expect?
Someone posted earlier that you can't be 5% off in todays game, well we are 33% off in terms of players available to us and we expect to NOT be 5% off in output? Gimme a break. We were 0% in terms of KPFs available to us.
Eddie Maguire has been saying it for years, Injuries are not an excuse.....they are a reason!
The reason we are losing is because we cannot field a competitve lineup each week at the moment. You might be able to get away with it some weeks. But you simply cannot get away with it every week.
Look at the all conquering tigers. Listen to the media talk about their form being down due to the injuries they've had. We have had 50% more injuries than them for the past couple of months at least. Its a reason for them, but we have it worse and we should sack the coach?!
I knew this kind of reaction would come today which is why i made it pretty clear in the pre-game that we were screwed.
If you look at it logically, you can be disappointed, but understanding.
If you look at it emotionally you are simply in a rage and want blood.
Too many in the latter category......and have been for decades. Not enough in the first category. Stick by the coach and ride out the bumps.
We need to stop looking in the rear view mirror of the past 20 years and look ahead to next week. You might actually see the pot holes coming and be able to brace for them instead of losing your $hit when you spill your coffee in your lap because you're oblivious to whats ahead.
The team that has been on top all year (albeit not after tonight) is the same team that has struggled for the past couple of years.
You know what the difference is this year? They haven't been cruelled by injuries!
FFS people can hope and want all they want, but without players available what do you expect?
Someone posted earlier that you can't be 5% off in todays game, well we are 33% off in terms of players available to us and we expect to NOT be 5% off in output? Gimme a break. We were 0% in terms of KPFs available to us.
Eddie Maguire has been saying it for years, Injuries are not an excuse.....they are a reason!
The reason we are losing is because we cannot field a competitve lineup each week at the moment. You might be able to get away with it some weeks. But you simply cannot get away with it every week.
Look at the all conquering tigers. Listen to the media talk about their form being down due to the injuries they've had. We have had 50% more injuries than them for the past couple of months at least. Its a reason for them, but we have it worse and we should sack the coach?!
I knew this kind of reaction would come today which is why i made it pretty clear in the pre-game that we were screwed.
If you look at it logically, you can be disappointed, but understanding.
If you look at it emotionally you are simply in a rage and want blood.
Too many in the latter category......and have been for decades. Not enough in the first category. Stick by the coach and ride out the bumps.
We need to stop looking in the rear view mirror of the past 20 years and look ahead to next week. You might actually see the pot holes coming and be able to brace for them instead of losing your $hit when you spill your coffee in your lap because you're oblivious to whats ahead.
Don't waste your time.
We were a different side without Williams who was taking intercept marks in the corridor and uses the ball better than most.
Eddie's injury stopped our most dangerous forward and the move of weitering forward was about 10 minutes too late.
Still had we taken our chances better(SPS, Newnes, fisher x2, owies x2, martin left foot snap, tdk) you know the gettable ones we'd have changed the game significantly enough.
Would it have made a difference? Hasn't so far in 20 years. Player motivation comes from within and only peer pressure will drive it. Coach can only encourage. Teague has actually the 2nd best record here by far (low bar admittedly but some bigger names have gone worse). The players did this to Ratten, round 22, 2012, when they lost to a depleted Gold Coast, 2nd bottom, showing little effort, when we need to win to get into the 8. It stamped Ratten's papers and we have regretted that move ever since. He was the one who at least got something out of us, even though our bad culture, which showed up in that game. Players don't have the will to be a good side. Haven't for 20 years.
Good Post, both Ratten and Teague were/have been let down by their playing group and there seems some common culture trait
we cant shake in terms of consistent application for a length of time. This feeling that we played a good game last week so we can just rock up and the same players will carry the day again.
A common complaint from supporters on this site and others is you cant trust the team from week to week...games we should win even with injuries we turn up half ar$ed then games vs better teams we will turn up competitive and usually only lose through poor kicking for goal but the effort was there.
Imagine trying to coach that..I think Cookie made a good point about leadership. Not enough players want to own what happens on the field and sacrifice and I'd be moving on these inconsistent effort merchants who cant seem to self motivate themselves.
Don't waste your time.
We were a different side without Williams who was taking intercept marks in the corridor and uses the ball better than most.
Eddie's injury stopped our most dangerous forward and the move of weitering forward was about 10 minutes too late.
Still had we taken our chances better(SPS, Newnes, fisher x2, owies x2, martin left foot snap, tdk) you know the gettable ones we'd have changed the game significantly enough.
It’s all excuses mate. Every year it’s a new one.
Yes we have injures but seriously a side who still had a small chance to play finals and then to lose the way we did to the bottom placed side is never acceptable if we are really a team that is close to making finals.
If we lost by a goal or 2 maybe missing players could have been the difference but not the way we lost today.
We again will be front and centre media wise and fair enough too. If Essendon or Collingwood performed the way we have this year we will be sh1tcanning them like there is no tomorrow.
Essendon have had a heap of injuries to key personnel yet they are on the verge of making the 8. How come injuries hasn’t stopped them this season from performing to expectations like it has us.
It’s sad that as a supporter base we are so accustomed to losing that we roll out the excuses before we even play the bloody game.
If we were in year 1 or 2 of the rebuild some of the excuses may be valid not in year 6 and if we really want to be respected never to the bottom team.
The team that has been on top all year (albeit not after tonight) is the same team that has struggled for the past couple of years.
You know what the difference is this year? They haven't been cruelled by injuries!
FFS people can hope and want all they want, but without players available what do you expect?
Someone posted earlier that you can't be 5% off in todays game, well we are 33% off in terms of players available to us and we expect to NOT be 5% off in output? Gimme a break. We were 0% in terms of KPFs available to us.
Eddie Maguire has been saying it for years, Injuries are not an excuse.....they are a reason!
The reason we are losing is because we cannot field a competitve lineup each week at the moment. You might be able to get away with it some weeks. But you simply cannot get away with it every week.
Look at the all conquering tigers. Listen to the media talk about their form being down due to the injuries they've had. We have had 50% more injuries than them for the past couple of months at least. Its a reason for them, but we have it worse and we should sack the coach?!
I knew this kind of reaction would come today which is why i made it pretty clear in the pre-game that we were screwed.
If you look at it logically, you can be disappointed, but understanding.
If you look at it emotionally you are simply in a rage and want blood.
Too many in the latter category......and have been for decades. Not enough in the first category. Stick by the coach and ride out the bumps.
We need to stop looking in the rear view mirror of the past 20 years and look ahead to next week. You might actually see the pot holes coming and be able to brace for them instead of losing your $hit when you spill your coffee in your lap because you're oblivious to whats ahead.
I understand your point of view. Probably I would agree with it if we had put up brief resistance and then had been blown away from late in the first quarter.
But we were ahead at half time. And then we had to watch the bottom side kick 7 goals to none in the third quarter. That's what upsets supporters. Clearly no player was injured during the halftime break so what are we to make of such a humiliating display?
We did the same a week or two ago in the third quarter and I remember wondering then what had happened during the halftime break.
Kruddler, I know the injury list, but what is going on between the ears? We have a whole team stand by and become spectators for a quarter for no apparent physical reason.
It's just not on. Carlton supporters deserve better.
I understand your point of view. Probably I would agree with it if we had put up brief resistance and then had been blown away from late in the first quarter.
But we were ahead at half time. And then we had to watch the bottom side kick 7 goals to none in the third quarter. That's what upsets supporters. Clearly no player was injured during the halftime break so what are we to make of such a humiliating display?
We did the same a week or two ago in the third quarter and I remember wondering then what had happened during the halftime break.
Kruddler, I know the injury list, but what is going on between the ears? We have a whole team stand by and become spectators for a quarter for no apparent physical reason.
It's just not on. Carlton supporters deserve better.
So you choose an arbitrary time that we should be able to match it with them until we are blown away (the first quarter) which would be somewhat acceptable. We stay with them for longer than that.....and you complain?
Interesting logic there. Bit backwards if you ask me.
Re injured during half time break....
Not really true. Williams got.injured in the last minute of the first half. I noticed it at the time. He was subbed out at half time.
Eddie betts got injured late in the 2nd quarter. Had Williams not been injured betts wouldve been subbed out imo. He did nothing for the rest of the game and couldn't walk afterwards.
So that's 2. Enough to make a difference.
TBH, when I saw eddies ankle I thought to myself this might be the last time we see him in navy blue...ever. I don't think he'll play next week.
As for why we dropped our bundle...perhaps the above 2 were simply the straw that broke the camels back. You can only deal with so many hits before it all catches up with you. I thought Harry the out was the final straw. I was surprised how well we held up last week, and the week before....but north were on the ball and could smell blood and put in 4 quarters unlike the last 2 opponents.
Would it have made a difference? Hasn't so far in 20 years. Player motivation comes from within and only peer pressure will drive it. Coach can only encourage. Teague has actually the 2nd best record here by far (low bar admittedly but some bigger names have gone worse). The players did this to Ratten, round 22, 2012, when they lost to a depleted Gold Coast, 2nd bottom, showing little effort, when we need to win to get into the 8. It stamped Ratten's papers and we have regretted that move ever since. He was the one who at least got something out of us, even though our bad culture, which showed up in that game. Players don't have the will to be a good side. Haven't for 20 years.
Given the turnover of players we have had in the last 5-6 years let alone the last 20, how does this "culture" or mindset of players not playing for the coach or getting up for important game manifest itself over such a long period of time across multiple coaches? 95% of this forum knew, or was fairly confident, we would lose yesterday even before H was an out. I am of the opinion that despite the outs, we had the talent on the park to beat NM and yet...
Don’t know what all the suprise doom and gloom is about, we had no key forwards against Tarrant and McKay who held out the West Coast forward line in Perth recently.
Slight correction Tommy, Tarrant didn’t play.
Having McKay wouldn't have stopped North streaming through the middle countless times under no pressure.
Given the turnover of players we have had in the last 5-6 years let alone the last 20, how does this "culture" or mindset of players not playing for the coach or getting up for important game manifest itself over such a long period of time across multiple coaches? 95% of this forum knew, or was fairly confident, we would lose yesterday even before H was an out. I am of the opinion that despite the outs, we had the talent on the park to beat NM and yet...
It is something that pervades in the club. Unless you get rid of 40 players and most of everyone else it's gets ingrained and "handed down". It's can get entrenched into a club.
Took the likes of Richmond 30 odd years to rid themselves of it, sacking how many coaches in the process. Even the great Allan Jeans couldn't do anything with that club and gave that one up.pretty quick. Neither could Robert Walls. If a culture is poor a coach can be helpless.
Given the turnover of players we have had in the last 5-6 years let alone the last 20, how does this "culture" or mindset of players not playing for the coach or getting up for important game manifest itself over such a long period of time across multiple coaches? 95% of this forum knew, or was fairly confident, we would lose yesterday even before H was an out. I am of the opinion that despite the outs, we had the talent on the park to beat NM and yet...
Spot on. And who knows what is going on behind closed doors at PP. Weiters and Stocks both looked 'out of sorts' yesterday. Totally out of character for Weiters and I'm not going to try to speculate why.
Like many others I wasn’t surprised at what we saw yesterday and the two most important that need to be fully explored by the current review are list management and strength and conditioning.
We entered the year with no third ruck, no key defence backups (we’ve actually been very very lucky here) and no back capable of playing on pacy small forwards. We’ve also invested an extraordinary amount of the salary cap in very few, which will get worse when we sign Walsh.
Our strength and conditioning is so far off the pace it’s not funny, and if Teague is to be sacked it should be for continually expressing faith in our “high performance” strength and conditioning team - surely Teague understands that it’s him or the fitness team that is going to go??? If not, that’s a bigger concern.
We can’t accept the lack of durability across our playing group over the past 2-3 years and we’ve got some structural issues to balance player payments across our list which means that our bottom 5-6 are not afl standard every time our injury list hits 5 or more.
Adding to all of the above, we’ll never get anywhere running out with the likes of all Casboult, Setterfield, Murphy, Plowman, Newnes, Newman, E Curnow, McDonald - all of them just aren’t up to it.
Of players with currency I’d be moving on McGovern (mistake) & SPS during the trade period.
A bit to do.
Normally I’m on the other site but reading this thread some of the comments make me laugh
The injury excuse
We have 12 guys out
Casboult done and dusted
Boyd Mirkov McDonald rookies recycled players
McGovern has hardly touched it in 3 years anyway
I could go on
Essendon have more out yet there probably going to play finals
Whoever said that injury is an excuse for yesterday’s shameful effort has their hand on it
Our recruiting is crap
Our midfield recruiting over the last 6 years has been crap many on big money giving up draft picks
It’s Walsh Cripps then who else
I new we were in big trouble when they gave up the farm for McGovern and Setterfield when the club had its worse year on record in 2018
Stephen Silvangi screwed this rebuild up big time
I predicted that this year we would be crap and once again a new List Manager Nick Austin decides to pay Zac Williams 4.8 million over 6 years to solve our midfield speed woes
The guy has played 8 years as as unaccountable half back
How screwing stupid is it to give a guy such a massive contract to do a job he clearly is not capable of doing
The club is now saddled with paying a guy huge money for 6 years to play on nobody at HB
Ditto Jack Martin plays as a permanent HF does pretty much screw all
The club overrated him as well
5 years on about 3.5 million
This is a guy who has achieved virtually nothing his whole career
Other clubs simply wouldn’t do this
Why would a club give up a pick 8 for a guy who can play only one position
Ironically HB and pay him over 3 million for 5 years. At least Saad is fit but he is actually a limited player
Why would you give up pick 30 for a spud like Fogarty
Whilst all this is going on Murphy is handed games to get to 300 like he is entitled to get there and produces crap footy
Meanwhile Carroll Honey Ramsay can’t get a game
Honey and Ramsay have played one game between them in 2 years
That’s a joke
What i am saying is nothing has changed in 20 years
The club still lives in the past
It hugely overrates some
It says screw the others
How does that produce a team environment
How can a guy like SPS be allowed to play 93 games
It doesn’t get how to be successful in 2021
The board needs to go
The board is ultimately responsible for setting the tone
I’ve said this on the other website for years
This external review is another smoke screen
Until that happens nothing will change
Spot on. And who knows what is going on behind closed doors at PP. Weiters and Stocks both looked 'out of sorts' yesterday. Totally out of character for Weiters and I'm not going to try to speculate why.
Weiters was sold out by his mates up the field. Weiters, SOS, Sefta combined couldn't have stopped that ball the way it streamed through the middle. I didn't watch most of the second half but I heard Teague say in his presser he moved him fwd. We go from hunter to hunted and panic far too easily.
Spot on. And who knows what is going on behind closed doors at PP. Weiters and Stocks both looked 'out of sorts' yesterday. Totally out of character for Weiters and I'm not going to try to speculate why.
I think the whole team looked off yesterday, and you'd have to wonder why. First time this year. I'm not going to vote in the Jim Park this week because I don't know who to vote for. A spare parts forward line, a spare parts / junior ruck brigade, Walsh ordinary when he never is etc. Just a bad day all round and one that should be forgotten and we move on to next week. All teams have shockers during the season.
The team that has been on top all year (albeit not after tonight) is the same team that has struggled for the past couple of years.
You know what the difference is this year? They haven't been cruelled by injuries!
FFS people can hope and want all they want, but without players available what do you expect?
Someone posted earlier that you can't be 5% off in todays game, well we are 33% off in terms of players available to us and we expect to NOT be 5% off in output? Gimme a break. We were 0% in terms of KPFs available to us.
Eddie Maguire has been saying it for years, Injuries are not an excuse.....they are a reason!
The reason we are losing is because we cannot field a competitve lineup each week at the moment. You might be able to get away with it some weeks. But you simply cannot get away with it every week.
Look at the all conquering tigers. Listen to the media talk about their form being down due to the injuries they've had. We have had 50% more injuries than them for the past couple of months at least. Its a reason for them, but we have it worse and we should sack the coach?!
I knew this kind of reaction would come today which is why i made it pretty clear in the pre-game that we were screwed.
If you look at it logically, you can be disappointed, but understanding.
If you look at it emotionally you are simply in a rage and want blood.
Too many in the latter category......and have been for decades. Not enough in the first category. Stick by the coach and ride out the bumps.
We need to stop looking in the rear view mirror of the past 20 years and look ahead to next week. You might actually see the pot holes coming and be able to brace for them instead of losing your $hit when you spill your coffee in your lap because you're oblivious to whats ahead.
Our injury List
Jordan Boyd
Levi Casboult
David Cuningham
Sam Docherty
Michael Gibbons
Caleb Marchbank
Oscar McDonald
Mitch McGovern
Alex Mirkov
Sam Philp
Marc Pittonet
H
Apart from H, Pitto and Doc (pre 2021), I wouldnt piss on the rest if they were on fire.
Given the turnover of players we have had in the last 5-6 years let alone the last 20, how does this "culture" or mindset of players not playing for the coach or getting up for important game manifest itself over such a long period of time across multiple coaches? 95% of this forum knew, or was fairly confident, we would lose yesterday even before H was an out. I am of the opinion that despite the outs, we had the talent on the park to beat NM and yet...
Firstly, 95% of the people knew we would lose yesterday? BS. Everyone was arguing against me for suggesting it was even possible.
Secondly, correlation does not equal causation. You look at the end result - poor performance - and assume the same reason for it. That is your problem and the problem from the club as a whole over the past 2 decades.
Poor performance? - Sack the coach.
Poor performance? - Sack the coach
etc.
How about looking at it this way....
Poor performance under Brittain = Injuries
Poor performance under Pagan = Lost the players
Poor performance under Ratten = Injuries
Poor performance under Malthouse = fractured club
Poor performance under Bolton = lost the players
Poor performance under Teague = Injuries.
One thing Teague has been able to do is become competitive in our on-field performances. When he first took over, he had a youngish, inexperienced list with some aging stars. Now those kids are starting to come good and we can't field a side. It was only our competitiveness that has allowed us to put in an acceptable behaviour the last couple weeks. To be fair, this result should've occurred 3 weeks ago.
What is being said now is the same thing that was being said at the halfway point. Then, as predicted, we started playing some easier opposition and had players available and the wins 'miraculously' came. Now we have been hit by more injuries (and to key personnel) and our performances start to struggle again.
Its not rocket science guys.
Our injury List
Jordan Boyd
Levi Casboult
David Cuningham
Sam Docherty
Michael Gibbons
Caleb Marchbank
Oscar McDonald
Mitch McGovern
Alex Mirkov
Sam Philp
Marc Pittonet
H
Apart from H, Pitto and Doc (pre 2021), I wouldnt piss on the rest if they were on fire.
I mentioned this a couple of weeks ago and you couldn't get it through your head what i was talking about. re injuries = playing players out of position = results suffer.
I did this in the pregame....and maybe it sinks in now....
Today could get ugly.....
Carltons KPF's depth chart..
1. McKay - Injured
2. C. Curnow - Injured
3. Casboult - Injured
4. McGovern - Injured
5. McDonald - Injured
6. Silvagni - playing.....but is also backup ruck.
7* TDK - Playing 1st ruck because, yep, Pittonet is injured.
8* Cripps - coming back from injury, and a midfielder, but perhaps our best option up forward......despite not being able to actually kick.
...and people want to sack Teague for lack of results?
I should've expanded that list to 10 and included Jones and Weitering in it and then done a KPD list as well.
So i couldn't care less who you choose to piss on or not.
Facts are facts, we can not field a balanced side. Results will suffer.
The game has been played with rucks, key defenders and key forwards for over a century. Why do you think that is? Because it works. We physically cannot do that now and you act like it doesn't matter. 100 years of coaches say otherwise.
I think the whole team looked off yesterday, and you'd have to wonder why. First time this year. I'm not going to vote in the Jim Park this week because I don't know who to vote for. A spare parts forward line, a spare parts / junior ruck brigade, Walsh ordinary when he never is etc. Just a bad day all round and one that should be forgotten and we move on to next week. All teams have shockers during the season.
Walsh was down because....
1. We were dominated in the ruck by the bloke who has the world record in hitouts.
2. Half our midfield were forced to play forward because our forward line was sitting in the injury room
3. Walsh got more attention as a result of '2' and it proved that he is human after all
4. Our lack of team balance finally broke our confidence and effort was down across the board which hurt him as well.
It’s all excuses mate. Every year it’s a new one.
Yes we have injures but seriously a side who still had a small chance to play finals and then to lose the way we did to the bottom placed side is never acceptable if we are really a team that is close to making finals.
If we lost by a goal or 2 maybe missing players could have been the difference but not the way we lost today.
We again will be front and centre media wise and fair enough too. If Essendon or Collingwood performed the way we have this year we will be sh1tcanning them like there is no tomorrow.
Essendon have had a heap of injuries to key personnel yet they are on the verge of making the 8. How come injuries hasn’t stopped them this season from performing to expectations like it has us.
It’s sad that as a supporter base we are so accustomed to losing that we roll out the excuses before we even play the bloody game.
If we were in year 1 or 2 of the rebuild some of the excuses may be valid not in year 6 and if we really want to be respected never to the bottom team.
You ignoring that we were effectively down to 3 on bench at half time when the wheels fell off?
Or the fact that our make shift forward line were wasteful with scoring which allowed north the freedom to stream forward?
Or do you want us to flood back and then have no get out kick up the line?
I look at this thread and think are tactics not people's strong suit? To half time we were fine. The lack of score board pressure allowed north the freedom to play as they liked, and sucked the life out of us once the repeat forward entries dried up.
I look at this thread and think are tactics not people's strong suit?
Thats the same conclusion i've come to when reading around recently, both here and on social media. Its kind of disturbing really.
People seem to look at the ladder and not much else in determining who should win.....and even then its through very much navy tinted glasses.
Normally I’m on the other site but reading this thread some of the comments make me laugh
The injury excuse
We have 12 guys out
Casboult done and dusted
Boyd Mirkov McDonald rookies recycled players
McGovern has hardly touched it in 3 years anyway
I could go on
Essendon have more out yet there probably going to play finals
Whoever said that injury is an excuse for yesterday’s shameful effort has their hand on it
Our recruiting is crap
Our midfield recruiting over the last 6 years has been crap many on big money giving up draft picks
It’s Walsh Cripps then who else
I new we were in big trouble when they gave up the farm for McGovern and Setterfield when the club had its worse year on record in 2018
Stephen Silvangi screwed this rebuild up big time
I predicted that this year we would be crap and once again a new List Manager Nick Austin decides to pay Zac Williams 4.8 million over 6 years to solve our midfield speed woes
The guy has played 8 years as as unaccountable half back
How screwing stupid is it to give a guy such a massive contract to do a job he clearly is not capable of doing
The club is now saddled with paying a guy huge money for 6 years to play on nobody at HB
Ditto Jack Martin plays as a permanent HF does pretty much screw all
The club overrated him as well
5 years on about 3.5 million
This is a guy who has achieved virtually nothing his whole career
Other clubs simply wouldn’t do this
Why would a club give up a pick 8 for a guy who can play only one position
Ironically HB and pay him over 3 million for 5 years. At least Saad is fit but he is actually a limited player
Why would you give up pick 30 for a spud like Fogarty
Whilst all this is going on Murphy is handed games to get to 300 like he is entitled to get there and produces crap footy
Meanwhile Carroll Honey Ramsay can’t get a game
Honey and Ramsay have played one game between them in 2 years
That’s a joke
What i am saying is nothing has changed in 20 years
The club still lives in the past
It hugely overrates some
It says screw the others
How does that produce a team environment
How can a guy like SPS be allowed to play 93 games
It doesn’t get how to be successful in 2021
The board needs to go
The board is ultimately responsible for setting the tone
I’ve said this on the other website for years
This external review is another smoke screen
Until that happens nothing will change
There’s a bit of truth in this post, however Silvagni’s starting point wasn’t great and he’s done well to get something from the Tom Bell types which riddled our list. Nobody is giving you the Patrick Dangerfield footy card if you’re holding Nick Duigan.
Jury remains out on Dow and SPS, but I still hold hope for Dow who needs to develop his upper body now. Re SPS he just doesn’t appear to want it enough?
McGovern and Setterfield are busts, Fogarty a solid foot soldier/depth.
Williams, Martin and Saad are all overpaid for their product but I’m holding on to hope that the front ending of these contracts means that their ongoing salaries are not materially out of line with peers which will allow us to build depth. Fingers crossed!
Injuries are an issue and Russell has to go. Very straightforward.
Our injury List
Jordan Boyd
Levi Casboult
David Cuningham
Sam Docherty
Michael Gibbons
Caleb Marchbank
Oscar McDonald
Mitch McGovern
Alex Mirkov
Sam Philp
Marc Pittonet
H
Apart from H, Pitto and Doc (pre 2021), I wouldnt piss on the rest if they were on fire.
Left out Charlie. Only needed those 3 plus Charlie and we play yesterday's game different tactically.
We would have been better player Jones forward then playing the same type of game we played against Geelong when our structures we smashed by injury. Would've have stopped North scoring alot. We tactically got it wrong yesterday and made it too easy for them.
Just watched the game again. Talk about no defensive IQ; talk about no respect for the defensive aspect of the game. It was as if we turned back the clock to pre bye performances... the old one-way thinking and strategy - only offense matters.
Taking Kennedy out of the midfield was a huge mistake. He's been the bull in there since the bye. Should have looked at other options to support the forward line.
You ignoring that we were effectively down to 3 on bench at half time when the wheels fell off?
Or the fact that our make shift forward line were wasteful with scoring which allowed north the freedom to stream forward?
Or do you want us to flood back and then have no get out kick up the line?
I look at this thread and think are tactics not people's strong suit? To half time we were fine. The lack of score board pressure allowed north the freedom to play as they liked, and sucked the life out of us once the repeat forward entries dried up.
Tactics or no tactics there is no excuse for lack of effort. We pick and choose as a club and until we stop making excuses and start playing consistent committed footy we will stay anchored in the bottom tier again. If it’s not the coach, it’s the fitness bloke if it’s not the fitness bloke it’s and bad luck of injuries. Aren’t you tired of all the excuses.
We got belted up by a team that many thought may not win a game this year in the their first year of a rebuild against a team in their 6th. Think about that without wearing the blue glasses and you should realise how disappointing yesterday’s result was and what is yet another failed season.
Taking Kennedy out of the midfield was a huge mistake. He's been the bull in there since the bye. Should have looked at other options to support the forward line.
Yep, I mentioned if we did this it would be a mistake in the pre-game thread, not just Kennedy but Dow and SPS as well.
We continually flirt with players form by playing out of position. Historically guys would run into VFL form, then we bring them into the AFL in a foreign position.
Is it a failure of player development or list management?
But I think there is a bigger problem.
I'm not sure Cripps is the unifying presence we think and when he's in the midfield with the likes of Walsh and Kennedy things are actually worse because we've less leg speed. When Cripps had those first two burst out of the midfield we were all anticipating a captains moment, like Kennedy's goal a week or so back, but he refused to take the shot and only did so on the 3rd attempt late in the game, when the result was done and dusted and the pressure as off. In my opinion, that is not an example of a natural leader, it's not what someone like Cotchin, Hodge or Selwood would do. Cripps has all the natural flair and ability, but he looks like it is being buried in pressure.
Have we done like the Maltidas and made the best player captain, only to have the player and the team pay the price?
Our injury List
Jordan Boyd
Levi Casboult
David Cuningham
Sam Docherty
Michael Gibbons
Caleb Marchbank
Oscar McDonald
Mitch McGovern
Alex Mirkov
Sam Philp
Marc Pittonet
H
Apart from H, Pitto and Doc (pre 2021), I wouldnt piss on the rest if they were on fire.
Absolutely spot on. The ones we miss imo is Harry Doc Cunningham and Pit the rest are in and out of the senior team or vfl grade. Our injury list is long but the quality of players out is not strong.
You watch next week when eddie (his last year) and Williams (who has done sfa) miss they will be used to to the why saints beat us.
You watch.
Just watched the game again. Talk about no defensive IQ; talk about no respect for the defensive aspect of the game.
I was struck by the room the Kanga forwards had in which to isolate themselves against solitary defenders to prevent them supporting each other.
After half time, the defenders were powerless to defend against forwards who had so much space and attackers who could deliver the ball in the face of zero pressure.
As good a player as he HASBEEN, I thought we were in big trouble when Murphy was listed as the medical sub.
Without Eddie to chase everything and everyone around the forward line, the lack of desire (or pace) to chase (Cripps, Kennedy, Martin, Owies, Dow) allowed the Kangas to run unmolested out of our forward line.
As for SPS - he had one of his better games as a midfielder/forward and does have the speed to chase but he rarely does - too often, when an opponent wins the ball, he strolls along behind and allows the opponent to get further ahead with every stride - my guess is that he trains at half pace and shows off his skills then plays the way he trains and has to make a concerted effort to actually run fast
As good a player as he HASBEEN, I thought we were in big trouble when Murphy was listed as the medical sub.
Without Eddie to chase everything and everyone around the forward line, the lack of desire (or pace) to chase (Cripps, Kennedy, Martin, Owies, Dow) allowed the Kangas to run unmolested out of our forward line.
Yes, agree on these points.
On the first point, if sMurph can't be selected outright then it suggests the MC had already given up on the season. Perhaps BigH is out for more than a week, we'll find out.
On the second, I thought Owies was OK, ran deep the full length of the field but was frequently left outnumbered as team-mates failed to get back to help. What may be even worse is that as a midfield Norp aren't fast, we were basically destroyed by one player running off the back of the square. Hall did it the whole game and nobody was willing to go with him or check his run. But this may be a sign that when Cripps is in the midfield the attitudes or tactics change for the worse. Last week we were much much better despite not always being first to the football, but yesterday there was hesitation, we were back watching Cripps hunt the footy instead of cracking in and tackling. To me this is a losing tactic we've developed and retained since the days of Judd.
But those missed set shots must be demoralising, too many of them diminished the return from generating so many valid opportunities, it has an impact. We should have been 3, 4 or 5 goals up, not 4 pts.
Absolutely spot on. The ones we miss imo is Harry Doc Cunningham and Pit the rest are in and out of the senior team or vfl grade. Our injury list is long but the quality of players out is not strong.
You watch next week when eddie (his last year) and Williams (who has done sfa) miss they will be used to to the why saints beat us.
You watch.
Missed the most important player, Charlie.
Important was of yesterday is that the structure were hurt. Even Casboult out of form takes a man and is very useful in the ruck. The structure is important as the player missing
Williams has been alot better since he was put in his right position.
Having said that, when you give up like we did you could have a super side and you'd still lose.
Murphy encapsulates the issues with the club and it's culture.
On one hand you have loyalty, rewarding a player for service etc. It's nice to see a long standing servant of the club reach a very significant milestone.
On the other hand you have a bloke who clearly played on too long, and can't contribute in a meaningful manner on game day. So why is he being played?
At some clubs he'd be left in the twos as part of a ruthless culture of winning.
I don't know the answer, I think you're in either camp and both viewpoints are valid.
Just watched the game again. Talk about no defensive IQ; talk about no respect for the defensive aspect of the game. It was as if we turned back the clock to pre bye performances... the old one-way thinking and strategy - only offense matters.
Taking Kennedy out of the midfield was a huge mistake. He's been the bull in there since the bye. Should have looked at other options to support the forward line.
You watched the game again?....lol.
Our mids seem to perform better when Cripps isn't there. Blokes that can play midfield and do well there but struggle in other places. We lose so much then. Maybe Cripps can play more forward with less runs in the midfield. just throwing up ideas. The likes of Kennedy and Dow have to play midfield otherwise we lose so much if they play elsewhere.
I agree with that on Cripps.
Young Cripps was an extractor, win the ball and give it off.
This version tries to break 3 tackles and usually stuff it up. That pisses team mates off.
I was struck by the room the Kanga forwards had in which to isolate themselves against solitary defenders to prevent them supporting each other.
After half time, the defenders were powerless to defend against forwards who had so much space and attackers who could deliver the ball in the face of zero pressure.
As good a player as he HASBEEN, I thought we were in big trouble when Murphy was listed as the medical sub.
Without Eddie to chase everything and everyone around the forward line, the lack of desire (or pace) to chase (Cripps, Kennedy, Martin, Owies, Dow) allowed the Kangas to run unmolested out of our forward line.
As for SPS - he had one of his better games as a midfielder/forward and does have the speed to chase but he rarely does - too often, when an opponent wins the ball, he strolls along behind and allows the opponent to get further ahead with every stride - my guess is that he trains at half pace and shows off his skills then plays the way he trains and has to make a concerted effort to actually run fast
Summation.
We have a coach who's a nice guy, but way too soft/forgiving.
(without even looking at his ability to plan/strategize how to defeat an opponent)
Teague must go. He's not going to get us to finals, let alone a flag.
Teague's record in his first 40 odd games compares favourably with Clarkson, Hardwick and others, at the equivalent stage of their careers. Unless he can magically heal the sick or make players grow 10 or 15cm before the first bounce, not sure what he's supposed to do. The adjustments he made with the team at his disposal seemed reasonable to me. The mids were kicking to a bunch of midgets, and consequently had to lower their eyes and kick low into the F50, which means that pinpoint kicking is required, otherwise low kicks are easy to pick off by the opposition. Which is exactly what happened last night. Too many turnovers, player behind the ball out of position, easy goals to North.
Firstly, 95% of the people knew we would lose yesterday? BS. Everyone was arguing against me for suggesting it was even possible.
Secondly, correlation does not equal causation. You look at the end result - poor performance - and assume the same reason for it. That is your problem and the problem from the club as a whole over the past 2 decades.
Poor performance? - Sack the coach.
Poor performance? - Sack the coach
etc.
How about looking at it this way....
Poor performance under Brittain = Injuries
Poor performance under Pagan = Lost the players
Poor performance under Ratten = Injuries
Poor performance under Malthouse = fractured club
Poor performance under Bolton = lost the players
Poor performance under Teague = Injuries.
One thing Teague has been able to do is become competitive in our on-field performances. When he first took over, he had a youngish, inexperienced list with some aging stars. Now those kids are starting to come good and we can't field a side. It was only our competitiveness that has allowed us to put in an acceptable behaviour the last couple weeks. To be fair, this result should've occurred 3 weeks ago.
What is being said now is the same thing that was being said at the halfway point. Then, as predicted, we started playing some easier opposition and had players available and the wins 'miraculously' came. Now we have been hit by more injuries (and to key personnel) and our performances start to struggle again.
Its not rocket science guys.
Easy on the patronising comments Coach.
So you choose an arbitrary time that we should be able to match it with them until we are blown away (the first quarter) which would be somewhat acceptable. We stay with them for longer than that.....and you complain?
Interesting logic there. Bit backwards if you ask me.
Re injured during half time break....
Not really true. Williams got.injured in the last minute of the first half. I noticed it at the time. He was subbed out at half time.
Eddie betts got injured late in the 2nd quarter. Had Williams not been injured betts wouldve been subbed out imo. He did nothing for the rest of the game and couldn't walk afterwards.
So that's 2. Enough to make a difference.
TBH, when I saw eddies ankle I thought to myself this might be the last time we see him in navy blue...ever. I don't think he'll play next week.
As for why we dropped our bundle...perhaps the above 2 were simply the straw that broke the camels back. You can only deal with so many hits before it all catches up with you. I thought Harry the out was the final straw. I was surprised how well we held up last week, and the week before....but north were on the ball and could smell blood and put in 4 quarters unlike the last 2 opponents.
According to your logic, injuries caused us to drop our bundle at the beginning of the third quarter, resulting in North kicking 7 goals to none.
How then, with the same injuries, were we able to kick 6 goals in the last quarter?
I still believe that poor leadership combined with a poor list and the inability to concentrate for 4 quarters are our main problems.
We lucked out that Nth had Cunnington and Anderson back in and Weitering played his worst game for two seasons....how often do you see him drop an easy mark like that Williamson pass and then turn it over for an easy goal.
Too many lazy non caring types refusing to man up, chase and sacrifice.....Walsh had his hands full with Simpkin... Weitering and Jones were ordinary and there was no one to save the day this time. Cripps kicked some goals but also stuffed up a few good chains we setup with dodgy kicks and like a few others have said we probably messed up not playing Kennedy in the middle.
Cripps will struggle next week vs Steele so its going to be down to Walsh probably to carry the day vs the Saints.
According to your logic, injuries caused us to drop our bundle at the beginning of the third quarter, resulting in North kicking 7 goals to none.
How then, with the same injuries, were we able to kick 6 goals in the last quarter?
I still believe that poor leadership combined with a poor list and the inability to concentrate for 4 quarters are our main problems.
Again, too simplistic of a view.
Let me provide a couple of possible explanations....
1. Kangas went to sleep after having the game sewn up...and we got a couple of late goals.
2. Teague move some magnets about which allowed us to be more productive
3. In the final quarter there was no point defending anymore as its better to try and win, and lose by 15, then to try and limit the damage to 6.
4. A combination of all of the above.
We lucked out that Nth had Cunnington and Anderson back in and Weitering played his worst game for two seasons....how often do you see him drop an easy mark like that Williamson pass and then turn it over for an easy goal.
Too many lazy non caring types refusing to man up, chase and sacrifice.....Walsh had his hands full with Simpkin... Weitering and Jones were ordinary and there was no one to save the day this time. Cripps kicked some goals but also stuffed up a few good chains we setup with dodgy kicks and like a few others have said we probably messed up not playing Kennedy in the middle.
Cripps will struggle next week vs Steele so its going to be down to Walsh probably to carry the day vs the Saints.
The players don't believe the 'plan' (whatever it is) works....
Last night should see the end of Teague, enough is enough.
The players, coaches etc shat their beds - repeatedly - playing the 18th team in the competition.
All on a night that was Ed's 200th and with finals still a possibility.
The players don't believe the 'plan' (whatever it is) works....
Last night should see the end of Teague, enough is enough.
The players, coaches etc shat their beds - repeatedly - playing the 18th team in the competition.
All on a night that was Ed's 200th and with finals still a possibility.
Totally agree.
Sadly, this year has shown, IMHO, that The TT is a very limited, even one-dimensional, coach which really limits / inhibits creativity and initiative and change. He just hasn't stepped up to being a leader... and we're pretty bereft of leadership as it is.
Totally agree.
Sadly, this year has shown, IMHO, that The TT is a very limited, even one-dimensional, coach which really limits / inhibits creativity and initiative and change. He just hasn't stepped up to being a leader... and we're pretty bereft of leadership as it is.
Baggers assuming your comments are based on our performance this year, I ask is Teaguey limited or do we overrate many on our list?
Covid did us a favour... none of us could be at the ground to sit through that spiritless 2nd half.
Amen!
Just watched the game again. Talk about no defensive IQ; talk about no respect for the defensive aspect of the game. It was as if we turned back the clock to pre bye performances... the old one-way thinking and strategy - only offense matters.
Taking Kennedy out of the midfield was a huge mistake. He's been the bull in there since the bye. Should have looked at other options to support the forward line.
Agree with that Baggers.
I thought we looked like we did early in the season. When we leaked 4 or more goals in a q and had no ability to stop the flow.
At that stage, we questioned fitness and players being played out of position.
After the bye and the announcement of the review we saw a bit of progress. Solid VFL form was rewarded, our defence was reviewed, and players were played in position.
Injuries continued, importantly including ruck and tall fwd options. We were vulnerable having a young ruckman returning from injury as our only option, and H. SOS's efforts to provide some cover was admirable but not sustainable.
The difference this week, aside from it being our achilles heel oppo, was the loss of H. The structural challenge, lack of depth, in-game injuries, as it transpired, was insurmountable. I can't imagine a coach having too many levers to pull at that stage.
That said. I acknowledge there may be issues in various areas of the club, from recruitment/appointment onwards. I also believe we need to drive selection standards and provide game day coaching support.
It's been underwhelming being a Carlton supporter for a long time. We too have to decide whether to stay the course or take up origami.
Enjoy watching the Olympics Bluebaggers
Summation.
We have a coach who's a nice guy, but way too soft/forgiving.
(without even looking at his ability to plan/strategize how to defeat an opponent)
Teague must go. He's not going to get us to finals, let alone a flag.
What would be the point. Different coach, same effort and result. Maybe a sugar hit year one but eventually the same result. You're not fixing the root of the issue. Win/loss he has the 2nd best record here this century. Unfortunately he is battling an awful culture, something that has killed many coaches. Previous to that we had won 4 of the previous 43, 100pt defeats, including one where we were outscored in a qtr 7 goals to 1 with a side that often had 16 men on the ground. So it was a low base to start with. Then we needed the coach changed but the tough part after was changing that culture, something that hasn't been done in 20 years.
Agree with that Baggers.
I thought we looked like we did early in the season. When we leaked 4 or more goals in a q and had no ability to stop the flow.
At that stage, we questioned fitness and players being played out of position.
After the bye and the announcement of the review we saw a bit of progress. Solid VFL form was rewarded, our defence was reviewed, and players were played in position.
Injuries continued, importantly including ruck and tall fwd options. We were vulnerable having a young ruckman returning from injury as our only option, and H. SOS's efforts to provide some cover was admirable but not sustainable.
The difference this week, aside from it being our achilles heel oppo, was the loss of H. The structural challenge, lack of depth, in-game injuries, as it transpired, was insurmountable. I can't imagine a coach having too many levers to pull at that stage.
That said. I acknowledge there may be issues in various areas of the club, from recruitment/appointment onwards. I also believe we need to drive selection standards and provide game day coaching support.
It's been underwhelming being a Carlton supporter for a long time. We too have to decide whether to stay the course or take up origami.
Enjoy watching the Olympics Bluebaggers
I'm lucky in that regard that I have seen 8 flags and some all time great sides. Must be tough being a younger Carlton supporter.
Totally agree.
Sadly, this year has shown, IMHO, that The TT is a very limited, even one-dimensional, coach which really limits / inhibits creativity and initiative and change. He just hasn't stepped up to being a leader... and we're pretty bereft of leadership as it is.
Teague would need as many dimensions as current string theory to be able to deal with the instability, unprofessionalism, heat etc. coming from the club, media, certain fans etc.
Don’t know what all the suprise doom and gloom is about, we had no key forwards against Tarrant and McKay who held out the West Coast forward line in Perth recently, trying to use Cripps or Kennedy as forwards was only robbing Peter to pay Paul admittedly delivery wasn’t very good but the blokes who have been clearing the way for Walsh etc to deliver we’re standing in the forward line waiting for it. TDK was given a lesson by a bloke who has been one of the best ruckman in the league for nearly 10 he’s crafty,strong and a great tap ruck and has toweled up many a athletic opponent in his time. He tapped it to Cunnington on of the real good clearance mid fielders and a bull. Our bull was trying to play full forward. Larkey had a day out but is a good developing FF who enjoyed having Cunnington and Anderson kicking it to him.
They were able to play a game style they have been building and started to do well with chalking up a victory over the Eagles in Perth and a draw against Giants. We were trying to play a game foreign to us and held on in the first half but then the wheels fell off and we completely lost our way. No team can absorb the injuries we had for this game especially to key forwards one or two of McKay Charlie Gov Casboult even McDonald would have helped Pittonet or Casboult and TDK rucking allowing Silvagni to be #3 tall forward and moving Cripps and Kennedy back to the midfield..
As for Murphy those on here sh…tcanning him have short memories of someone who has served this club with distinction through some bloody tough years hoping we would improve enough for a flag shot in time for him to be part of it not p..ssing off to Geelong only to be let down by those in the background recruiting poorly and appointing coaches. One who tore our heart out by selfishness then one who took us back to square one starting over. He stuck around to give some experience it would be an honour to have him as a 300 game Carlton player and he deserves to be given those games that is how you build club culture. It’s hard enough to play one game but someone like Murphy has played nearly 300 and doesn’t deserve to be criticised by losers on here who haven’t had the talent or guts to play 1
Great post Tommy. I tip my hat to you.
'Injuries are no excuse' is a bit of a cliche that's thrown around.
If you think about it that makes absolutely no sense at all.
Injuries are an excuse, as well as a reason.
They destroy your structures and plans and throw an extra burden and responsibility on the players remaining.
They result in players being played in unfamiliar roles that sometimes don't suit them at all (Silvagni in the ruck, Cripps at FF).
Injuries to key personnel during the game can be extremely disruptive as there is usually no immediate fix for them.
Injuries have been responsible for the demise of at least two of our coaches over the last twenty years and may be about to claim a third.
Earlier in the season there was this theory floating that once we got some players back from injury we'd be in much better shape.
But you really didn't have to be Nostradamus to realise that a more likely scenario would be that we would see further significant injuries, some season ending.
Added to that with the extra burden placed on players, we were always going to see more of the niggly one or two week injuries and players carrying injuries into and through games.
Nice post Lods. it as as you say, a bit of a cliche, but IMO also involves a small amount of psychological trickery, since if the players are aware that there is a reduced chance of winning because of injury, the temptation is there to drop off ever so slightly, knowing that if you don't win, you have an "excuse" ready to go. It's also a good and necessary statement for the fans. But i don't think it really works. The players know injuries make a difference, we know it makes a difference, the coaches know - I think it just sets up a kind of cognitive dissonance in everyone's mind.
Baggers assuming your comments are based on our performance this year, I ask is Teaguey limited or do we overrate many on our list?
I suspect it is plenty of both.
Injuries no doubt can impact the result of a game but shouldn’t the players who are sent out to represent a club always try their darnedest by putting in 100% effort? Surely they would at least want to try a keep their spots in the face of injured players coming back in when fit? Any player who is not prepared to do that would perhaps justifiably be regarded as having an air of entitlement? Or perhaps some feel that it doesn’t matter how hard they try their efforts aren’t always fully appreciated?
Don’t know what all the suprise doom and gloom is about, we had no key forwards against Tarrant and McKay who held out the West Coast forward line in Perth recently, trying to use Cripps or Kennedy as forwards was only robbing Peter to pay Paul admittedly delivery wasn’t very good but the blokes who have been clearing the way for Walsh etc to deliver we’re standing in the forward line waiting for it. TDK was given a lesson by a bloke who has been one of the best ruckman in the league for nearly 10 he’s crafty,strong and a great tap ruck and has toweled up many a athletic opponent in his time. He tapped it to Cunnington on of the real good clearance mid fielders and a bull. Our bull was trying to play full forward. Larkey had a day out but is a good developing FF who enjoyed having Cunnington and Anderson kicking it to him.
They were able to play a game style they have been building and started to do well with chalking up a victory over the Eagles in Perth and a draw against Giants. We were trying to play a game foreign to us and held on in the first half but then the wheels fell off and we completely lost our way. No team can absorb the injuries we had for this game especially to key forwards one or two of McKay Charlie Gov Casboult even McDonald would have helped Pittonet or Casboult and TDK rucking allowing Silvagni to be #3 tall forward and moving Cripps and Kennedy back to the midfield..
As for Murphy those on here sh…tcanning him have short memories of someone who has served this club with distinction through some bloody tough years hoping we would improve enough for a flag shot in time for him to be part of it not p..ssing off to Geelong only to be let down by those in the background recruiting poorly and appointing coaches. One who tore our heart out by selfishness then one who took us back to square one starting over. He stuck around to give some experience it would be an honour to have him as a 300 game Carlton player and he deserves to be given those games that is how you build club culture. It’s hard enough to play one game but someone like Murphy has played nearly 300 and doesn’t deserve to be criticised by losers on here who haven’t had the talent or guts to play 1
Excellent Post.
Thanks Tommy.
Injuries no doubt can impact the result of a game but shouldn’t the players who are sent out to represent a club always try their darnedest by putting in 100% effort? Surely they would at least want to try a keep their spots in the face of injured players coming back in when fit? Any player who is not prepared to do that would perhaps justifiably be regarded as having an air of entitlement? Or perhaps some feel that it doesn’t matter how hard they try their efforts aren’t always fully appreciated?
Certainly effort and attitude are big factors but it's part of a bigger picture.
If extra demands are put on a playing group because of injury then some will buckle under the weight sooner or later. As that happens the greater demands shift to other, stronger players who are also eventually worn down until like a dam it collapses.
There's no one real reason for a performance like yesterday. It's a combination of a lot of variables.
Effort and attitude is one, injury another.
Certainly effort and attitude are big factors but it's part of a bigger picture.
If extra demands are put on a playing group because of injury then some will buckle under the weight sooner or later. As that happens the greater demands shift to other, stronger players who are also eventually worn down until like a dam it collapses.
There's no one real reason for a performance like yesterday. It's a combination of a lot of variables.
Effort and attitude is one, injury another.
Maybe we need more of the later-buckling types.
Nice post Lods. it as as you say, a bit of a cliche, but IMO also involves a small amount of psychological trickery, since if the players are aware that there is a reduced chance of winning because of injury, the temptation is there to drop off ever so slightly, knowing that if you don't win, you have an "excuse" ready to go. It's also a good and necessary statement for the fans. But i don't think it really works. The players know injuries make a difference, we know it makes a difference, the coaches know - I think it just sets up a kind of cognitive dissonance in everyone's mind.
Nice post Paul
A good segway into the mental attributes of individuals (i.e. mental toughness), which is shown to provide an edge. Other factors being equal (talent, fitness, deveopment, leadership, cohesion, game plan, resources...) it can be the final piece of the success puzzle. Those with high mental toughness tend to perform consistently in the face of everyday challenges and adversity. It's also an attribute that can be assessed and developed. Not the panacea in sport, but definitely a contributor to success.
As for Murphy those on here sh…tcanning him have short memories of someone who has served this club with distinction through some bloody tough years...He stuck around to give some experience it would be an honour to have him as a 300 game Carlton player and he deserves to be given those games that is how you build club culture. It’s hard enough to play one game but someone like Murphy has played nearly 300 and doesn’t deserve to be criticised by losers on here who haven’t had the talent or guts to play 1
My God! Talk about rewriting history. He is part of the issue we are where we are. His contribution, especially over the past 3-4 yeas have been nothing short of deplorable for a supposed "senior" player.
He is the quintessential definition of a player that if things aren't going his way he offers nothing to turn the tide. Just accepts the outcome and meanders around the field with faux efforts. His tackling is simply another level of ineptness that needs to be seen to be believed as to how bad it actually is...
Don't come on here and say everyone who calls him on it that they don't appreciate his contribution. We do, it's just his contribution is so bad it's not even VFA levels and so we call him on it.
If he did play the levels you claim he does do you think anyone would say anything?.... Yeah, didn't think so....
Nice post Paul
A good segway into the mental attributes of individuals (i.e. mental toughness), which is shown to provide an edge. Other factors being equal (talent, fitness, deveopment, leadership, cohesion, game plan, resources...) it can be the final piece of the success puzzle. Those with high mental toughness tend to perform consistently in the face of everyday challenges and adversity. It's also an attribute that can be assessed and developed. Not the panacea in sport, but definitely a contributor to success.
Thanks LN. This is one of the many things Bolton was trying to implement, mental toughness to endure when things aren't going your way. Although I'm not convinced our issues are strictly in that space.
Thanks LN. This is one of the many things Bolton was trying to implement, mental toughness to endure when things aren't going your way. Although I'm not convinced our issues are strictly in that space.
There were certainly many opportunities to develop under Bolton. You're right, that's but one small part of the machine.
Baggers assuming your comments are based on our performance this year, I ask is Teaguey limited or do we overrate many on our list?
Not sure it is neither. We base our thoughts on the that issue based on thinking they'll actually have a crack and work hard. Often they don't. Tough to get a true guide on either of those with that being the case. Physically they may be pretty good, as may Teague, but we know they are mentally weak as they won't put it out there each game. Can have a game plan but it'll be useless if the players won't work hard enough to execute it. We've spent the year not defending properly. Not a part of the plan as Teague gave them an almighty spray over it against Hawthorn. So that's the players.
We've probably been stronger under Teague than previous coaches, which says not much as the bar was very low. All we can say we have won a more games and are competitive nearly every game, at least on the scoreboard. Much more than we can say under previous coaches bar Ratten, but that is still no-where near good enough. At least the 100pt defeats have stopped, especially getting outscored 7 goal to 1 in a qtr by a side that often just had 16 men. Basically where we started under Teague. Can't be happy with that though.
As supporters we all never learn. We come on hoping and expecting plenty but often disappointed and frustrated with the output. We were in a position to make the 8. No matter what anyone says, most were hoping hard and deep down a touch excited (within reason), then we got that dished up yesterday, hence disappointed and frustrated. As I said, we all, including me, never learn. Better off expecting they'll bludge and stuff it up and being pleasantly surprised when they don't. Sad to have to think that way.
https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/four-points-carlton-s-real-problem-the-bont-the-best-cats-selection-dilemmas-20210725-p58cnj.html
https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/four-points-carlton-s-real-problem-the-bont-the-best-cats-selection-dilemmas-20210725-p58cnj.html
Key takeaways - lack of continuity, instability and disunity.
Key takeaways - lack of continuity, instability and disunity.
Plus average midfield in terms of talent and depth.....and Cripps not in the elite group of mids.
Plus average midfield in terms of talent and depth.....and Cripps not in the elite group of mids.
Plus this:
Blues’
pressure was non-existent as the Kangaroos kicked at 80 per cent efficiency, moving the ball from end to end like it was a training drill. Carlton
conceded 10.2 from their back half in the second half.
Once the opposition turn the scoring tap on, the Blues have to rely on skill rather than system to turn it off. When skill deserts them opposition scores flow like the Amazon.
Damning. The bold bits kill us consistently.
Yet the midfield is stronger with that hack Cripps in there and his mate Kennedy, but we needed them to play KPF.
But remember, injuries are just making excuses… 🤦🏼♂️
I wonder how many systems rely on playing with no key position forwards.
We lost McKay late in the week and Teague shat himself, let's be blunt.
He made a myriad of changes when in reality few were needed.
1. Was Cripps fit? I doubt it.
2. Taking Kennedy out of the middle - just dumb. Pick Charlie or Kemp or McDonald or the Guv (back in full training for a month now) as a replacement tall target. Someone who has a smidgeon of a clue to play that role.
3. Cripps redefined the notion of a statue as a KPP.
4. Whatever the message was at half time it totally deflated the group.
5. Aaron Hall? No one went near him.
6. midfield was AWOL defensively again. Why? Dow back to his slow jog after the ball carrier - 7 tackles in Q3 for the entire team!!
We were demolished and bullied in the middle of the ground and around the ball pretty much all day. H, Charlie, Kernahan, Lockett, Dunstall and Ablett Snr combined wouldn't have made one iota of difference today.
First half (esp the first q), we dominated the inside 50s, just didnt convert (both turning enough of them into shots, and actually kicking straight). Then, when they waltzed through the middle, they converted EVERY time they went into fwd50.
So, i reckon in the first half, it was our forward line (and the delivery) that was the issue (as well as the lack of 2 way running, that allowed them easy goals).
If, we had used our opportunities in the first half, we would have been 6 goals up at half time, and that 3rd quarter rot would not have happenned
We lost McKay late in the week and Teague shat himself, let's be blunt.
He made a myriad of changes when in reality few were needed.
We do have an MC don't we?
I get the feeling this coach and recent others might be the victim of executive meddling, because the decisions seem to be more marketing / crowd driven than making any tactical sense.
For example I hear rumours Charlie is now up for Friday night, still yet to have played a serious VFL game. What the feck would you now rush him back for our season is over, ................... to sell hope and attract sponsors for 2022 that is why?
Funny, I said in the pre-game players would be unlucky to be dropped based on the Collingwood performance. This week it's hard to find anyone that wouldn't be dropped.
Eddie - non-event.
Owies - bugger all
Stocker - a shocker ( a week is a long time in football isn't it?)
Cottrell - bloody hell
Willo - God help me
SPS - Ghost
Weitering - worst game for the year
Fisher - zero impact
Slight chance of making finals. Playing a very winnable game. Fail dismally. Reminds me of a one of my favourite Elton John songs. "I've seen that movie too".
::)
Eddie - non-event. - he was hurt for most of the game
Owies - bugger all
Stocker - a shocker ( a week is a long time in football isn't it?)
Cottrell - bloody hell
Willo - God help me
SPS - Ghost
Weitering - worst game for the year - yeah, larkey got away from him a couple of times, but he did repel a few attacks
Fisher - zero impact - he had 2 or 3 side steps in the fwd 50, that if he then missed the shot, convert those, and...... (i know, if my auntie had....)
We do have an MC don't we?
I get the feeling this coach and recent others might be the victim of executive meddling, because the decisions seem to be more marketing / crowd driven than making any tactical sense.
For example I hear rumours Charlie is now up for Friday night, still yet to have played a serious VFL game. What the feck would you now rush him back for our season is over, ................... to sell hope and attract sponsors for 2022 that is why?
Teague or the MC (which might just include Teague) is semantics.
We do have an MC don't we?
I get the feeling this coach and recent others might be the victim of executive meddling, because the decisions seem to be more marketing / crowd driven than making any tactical sense.
For example I hear rumours Charlie is now up for Friday night, still yet to have played a serious VFL game. What the feck would you now rush him back for our season is over, ................... to sell hope and attract sponsors for 2022 that is why?
I would have played him this week to get the monkey off his back and to straighten us up (against North) only trepidation I had was the concrete surface at Marvel.
I endorse him playing AFL as soon as possible. If he plays 5 games to finish this year, he will hit the ground running with confidence, or we will break him and know we need a key forward this off season.
If we wait until next year, he has a rip snorting pre season and breaks down in round 1 next year, what good does that do us?
Yet the midfield is stronger with that hack Cripps in there and his mate Kennedy, but we needed them to play KPF.
But remember, injuries are just making excuses… 🤦🏼♂️
Not sure i'd want to call Cripps a hack. He carried this club on his back for years.
Not sure i'd want to call Cripps a hack. He carried this club on his back for years.
Cripps is no hack but the Lone Ranger approach will never be successful.
Not sure i'd want to call Cripps a hack. He carried this club on his back for years.
Think NB was jesting, Cripps is far from a hack, just needs to adjust to spending a bit more time forward like Fyfe, Bont etc and us becoming less reliant on him in the middle. Problem is then all the attention goes to Walsh, so we need some more high class help in the middle..
North players being allowed to stand up and dish off in tackles.
Did the umpires let both teams know this was the new rules, or just the Kangas?? They seemed to be not too concerned with being tackled and spun 4 times.
Did the umpires let both teams know this was the new rules, or just the Kangas?? They seemed to be not too concerned with being tackled and spun 4 times.
Even surprised the Pro-Kangas commentary team!
I wonder how many systems rely on playing with no key position forwards.
I said in the pregame that the #1 question being asked after the game was why didn't we play Charlie.
Is taken people a few days but u think they are finally staying to see it.
I said in the pregame that the #1 question being asked after the game was why didn't we play Charlie.
Is taken people a few days but u think they are finally staying to see it.
As good as Charlie is or can be, the only thing he has done is play 2/3rds of a game that was the equivalent of dancing with your sister!
Looking good in a game that is nothing more than a virtual intraclub, with composite teams made up of players going 1/2 rat pace, is not a serious run let alone a qualification.
If BigH remains out, and they wheel out Charlie after doing 4/5ths of feck all, then it confirms to me they(The Club) are all about profit and not long term success!
I appreciate Charlie has to play some footy as a reward for effort, for his own wellbeing, but they can do that in the VFL where nobody gives a feck if he is permanently benched half-way through the 3rd qtr! If he gets so much as a sore follicle, they can bench him to avoid the next curse of quads or hammies after a knee injury, and ease him in over weeks rather than obliterate his efforts in a single frenetic game.
Of course that doesn't mean he couldn't come in and be an instant success, but where is the reward relative to the risk?
I can see both LP's and Thry's POV on Charlie, but probably leaning towards the latter. For a player of his calibre, if he's fit enough to play VFL, then he's fit enough for AFL. I'd like to see how his body stands up over the 4 remaining games, how his mobility / athleticism has been affected etc. His time on field could be managed, and probably should be managed. He could be a boost for fans, and may also help save Teague's ar$e, which appears to be on borrowed time. I wouldn't say this for every player, bur for Charlie I'd be thinking "no time like the present."
I can see both LP's and Thry's POV on Charlie, but probably leaning towards the latter. For a player of his calibre, if he's fit enough to play VFL, then he's fit enough for AFL. I'd like to see how his body stands up over the 4 remaining games, how his mobility / athleticism has been affected etc. His time on field could be managed, and probably should be managed. He could be a boost for fans, and may also help save Teague's ar$e, which appears to be on borrowed time. I wouldn't say this for every player, bur for Charlie I'd be thinking "no time like the present."
You dont take a Ferrari bushbashing. Nuff said.
You dont take a Ferrari bushbashing. Nuff said.
Definite agreement GTC ... too late for any impact on our season, so no, ease him back in.
Just a couple of weeks ago the media was bashing us for playing kids underdone or when they didn't deserve a game.
A lot of fans who agreed with that at the time, now want Charlie straight into the AFL effectively untested and untuned.
It seems a tad inconsistent from both sectors.
Further, I'm sure if he breaks they'll blame Russell or Teague.
I believe until our club stops reacting to external pressures, we are doomed to repeat the mistakes of the past, many fans can already feel this coming!
Just a couple of weeks ago the media was bashing us for playing kids underdone or when they didn't deserve a game.
A lot of fans who agreed with that at the time, now want Charlie straight into the AFL effectively untested and untuned.
It seems a tad inconsistent from both sectors!
Further, I'm sure if he breaks they'll blame Russell or Teague!
I understand your point, but every rule has its exceptions. I tend to agree with Thry. I'd rather he breaks down this season, and that way we can plan over the pre season accordingly. There would be nothing worse IMO that a massive build up over the summer, lots of hype, hope, expectation etc., then he breaks down again early and everyone feels lousy again.
I understand your point, but every rule has its exceptions. I tend to agree with Thry. I'd rather he breaks down this season, and that way we can plan over the pre season accordingly. There would be nothing worse IMO that a massive build up over the summer, lots of hype, hope, expectation etc., then he breaks down again early and everyone feels lousy again.
I'll contrast this Charlie rumour, with Melbourne Storm, Craig Bellamy and Ryan Papenhuyzen, was never rushed, they were under enormous pressure to bring him back week after week, and when he did come back they ran him for a half off the bench. But in NRL they have that opportunity.
If guys like Charlie can't be risked at VFL, perhaps the AFL does need to change the bench and sub rules as is rumoured to be under consideration for 2022. I'd have no problem with Charlie coming straight in if AFL had Interchange ++ Substitutes.
Thanks Carlton... For paying the bills for the media vultures. Twenty ****ing years Carlton, thanks. Hearing Whately giggling and laughing with Cornes today, we're a sick joke.
I like Teague, but this group of players have done him no service. I hope some of them follow him out the door, they deserve it.
One difference Judd found when he got here. At West Coast the general conversation about the players was about how they can get better and chart their course to the flag. At Carlton he found it so different. All their interest was centred around the next contract. There a culture difference right there.
https://www.themonthly.com.au/issue/2016/april/1459429200/martin-mckenzie-murray/west-coast-boys-done-bad#mtr
"At Carlton, Judd was surrounded by mediocrity, and this appears to have aggravated him much more than the fierce self-destruction of his previous mob.
'If you’re driven to win premierships and gain all that comes with them – the sense of achievement, the lifelong friendships, the lasting memories – you will give almost anything. This was how it was at West Coast. We had a formalised vision of how we would prepare for and play the game, but beyond that, between the lines, we could sense strongly the idea of a football career that would live with us long after we had hung up our boots … When I arrived at Carlton, I experienced nothing like this.' "
http://www.injoewetrust.com.au/2015/10/25/10-take-aways-from-chris-judds-autobiography/
"Judd recounted the culture difference between West Coast and Carlton; and was blown away by the difference. He said at West Coast they expected to win and everyone trained accordingly, they were disciplined and all trained hard with the intent of winning a premiership. Conversely at Carlton (Wooden spooners) the players were simply hoping not to lose by too large a margin. Lesson-You get what you expect and deserve and train accordingly. At Carlton players were playing for a contract next year, not playing to win a premiership! Year upon year of finishing on the bottom has a much more destructive effect on culture than a handful of high draft picks could ever repair!"
Thanks Carlton... For paying the bills for the media vultures. Twenty ****ing years Carlton, thanks. Hearing Whately giggling and laughing with Cornes today, we're a sick joke.
I like Teague, but this group of players have done him no service. I hope some of them follow him out the door, they deserve it.
Just like round 22 2012 when they did the same to Ratten. Needed a wins against a depleted, bottom placed Gold Coast to get into the 8, and we fell 7 goals behind before losing by two. The effort was so poor and it stamped Ratten's papers that week. Players basically presented Ratten's head on a platter. Nothing has changed since.
So it's time identify those players and f*** them off. Today. Not end of season. Today.
So it's time identify those players and f*** them off. Today. Not end of season. Today.
Yes. Otherwise we just change the coach again for the same or a worse result.
So it's time identify those players and f*** them off. Today. Not end of season. Today.
That might well run deep Prof. :-[
So be it. Because the status quo hasn't worked for 20+ years.
I seem to be a bit different to many (not all) who have posted. As soon as Harry was out, it was game over. People have wanted Kennedy to play in the forward line because he is a good mark and kick. That's where he was played. Now they only want to play him in the middle, because he was good there the last couple of weeks. Do that, who do we kick the ball to in the forward line?
Just using Kennedy as the conundrum that we're in.
We are pushing sh.. uphill to think that JSOS is OK to be the 2nd ruck. Not faulting him or the team for his effort, but it isn't going to work that much.
I don't think I have ever seen a team who has kicked 7+ goals in a quarter have their opponents chase, tackle, harass, control the ball, change things up. I just prefer it when it is Carlton kicking the goals.
I'm not surprised, or upset by the result - although I couldn't watch the game from early in the third. Yep, we could have made more of our opportunities in the first half, but what if we kicked a goal instead of a point, then Goldstein got the tap and North got the ball going their way earlier. We will never know. What if that gave us confidence and we kept going. We will never know.
We are going to get beaten by the Saints - their rucks are too good for TDK, with Marshall coming back in. TDK has only played 18 games.
On second thoughts, f%^ it. Let's just sack the coach and start again, because that's proven to be a winner for us over the last 20 years. Or we can just turnover the whole list again, so that everyone is confident in their role and tenure - that's also proven to be well thought out and successful.
(PS Baggers - you deserve to be able to vote a few times in the Jim Park count for getting through the game and then going again).
If there wasn't this focus on Teague and his position was assured, we'd probably be looking at some of the team selections, positional moves, the management of players... and the effort, and think...'they've put the cue in the rack for this year.'
So it's time identify those players and f*** them off. Today. Not end of season. Today.
I doubt it is the players or the coaches because the problem has spanned many careers of both coaches and players.
It is probably a cultural issue that diffuses through the club from the very top, we've give lip service to a change in culture, but we still act like we can trade our way out if it!
I doubt it is the players or the coaches because the problem has spanned many careers of both coaches and players.
It is probably a cultural issue that diffuses through the club from the very top, we've give lip service to a change in culture, but we still act like we can trade our way out if it!
Anyone who has worked in large organisations will tell you that low morale and negativity start at the top.
i won't be posting the coaches' votes this week. They're all North players.
Our game and the Geelong Richmond game are the only two where one club had a clean sweep of the votes. Good company I guess...............
I am so tired of hanging onto players 'just in case they come good'.....
I look at the younger brigade of players that other teams are producing (think especially Swans, Lions, even Bombers), and all I can think is we are so far off the pace, it is a farce. I don't think it's about the players we have selected - it's almost not possible to get that many wrong. We just don't know how to turn a talented kid into an AFL footballer (blokes like Walsh and Weitering develop themselves, so they don't count).
Because our younger players are nowhere ready to play, there is no pressure on the myriad of list-cloggers that get a game every week and cruise around the ground like it's a Sunday picnic.
The lack of effort in the 3rd Quarter was ridiculous and embarrassing - in the end, it is the 22 in Navy Blue that must own up to the fact that they barely looked interested. What we are clearly missing is the enthusiasm and energy that comes when a bunch of young guys come in and make a contribution that lifts the whole group. Instead, we have a group that appears resigned to the fact that they will never be good enough.
I don't think I would want to be working in the Carlton Membership department over the off-season - it is going to be a very difficult sell.
I am so tired of hanging onto players 'just in case they come good'.....
I look at the younger brigade of players that other teams are producing (think especially Swans, Lions, even Bombers), and all I can think is we are so far off the pace, it is a farce. I don't think it's about the players we have selected - it's almost not possible to get that many wrong. We just don't know how to turn a talented kid into an AFL footballer (blokes like Walsh and Weitering develop themselves, so they don't count).
Because our younger players are nowhere ready to play, there is no pressure on the myriad of list-cloggers that get a game every week and cruise around the ground like it's a Sunday picnic.
The lack of effort in the 3rd Quarter was ridiculous and embarrassing - in the end, it was the 22 in Navy Blue that must own up to the fact that they barely looked interested.
I don't think I would want to be working in the Carlton Membership department over the off-season - it would be a very difficult sell.
Quite apart from the physical and skill development, which is on the coaches and conditioning folks....
I think there are few periods in our last twenty years where we've essentially 'lost our leaders'.
The most dramatic one was probably in the early-mid Pagan years.
As the older players of the nineties retired or were moved on...
A young Marc Murphy came into a side where the leaders were guys like an aging Kouta (great player, arguably not a great leader) Lance Whitnall, Nick Stevens...and Fev
The Judd years were moderately successful but Patrick Cripps only caught the tail of that.
This was his initial leadership group in his first season 2014...
Marc Murphy (c); Andrew Carrazzo, Kade Simpson (vc), Michael Jamison (dvc), Bryce Gibbs, Lachlan Henderson, Brock McLean, Andrew Walker.
Some good, average footballers, but in terms of leadership probably only one or two had the necessary qualities.
So to the rebuild... and we look and see that only one of our 2014 leadership group remains at the club...and he is struggling to get a game.
Now with players like Weitering and Walsh we may have the nucleus of a strong leadership group, but the results of those guys influencing younger players and have them joining them in leadership positions is probably still a season or two away.
Contrast that with some of the successful clubs, where young players undergo an initiation under the guidance of strong, experienced leaders and you see another reason why we struggle.
It's a sad state that a club that once prided itself on the quality of its 'player leaders' has this more recent history of mediocrity, which has been passed down through each new generation of leaders.
As good as Charlie is or can be, the only thing he has done is play 2/3rds of a game that was the equivalent of dancing with your sister!
...
Of course that doesn't mean he couldn't come in and be an instant success, but where is the reward relative to the risk?
Only thing he has done is 2 months of training! He's done a pre-seasons worth of work and played a 'practice match'.
What difference is that to if it was Round 1 this year? Because its Round 19 or whatever it is, he's still done enough work as anyone else who played in R1.
FWIW, Charlie is in at the front of the pack in terms of fitness anyway. 2x Curnows, Cottrell and Walsh lead all the time trial stuff.
As for the reward? Confidence!
Confidence for Charlie......in understanding he CAN still play footy....not have to wait another 6 months of doubting.
Confidence for the club....in realising that Charlie CAN still play footy....not have to worry about finding his replacement.
Confidence for the team...in seeing that Charlie CAN still play footy...and understanding next year will be better.
Confidence for potential recruits....is knowing that Charlie CAN still play footy....and wanting to come and play with him.
More than enough reward imo.
I'd play him....
But I can understand a reluctance.
If things go bad they'll get crucified.
That mightn't be what's right....but is what will happen.
It's also probably a little different playing your first game when all around you on both sides are battle hardened.
And you and your teammates haven't played together under hard match conditions for some time.
I'd play him....
But I can understand a reluctance.
If things go bad they'll get crucified.
That mightn't be what's right....but is what will happen.
It's also probably a little different playing your first game when all around you on both sides are battle hardened.
And you and your teammates haven't played together under hard match conditions for some time.
If he doesn't play, things will go bad anyway.
We need Charlie for structure. If we don't have structure, we lose, Teague gets sacked (apparantly) players decide they are better off playing elsewhere rather than go through a rebuild. Our older players are retired to make way for younger versions.....we are stuffed.
I'd argue there is more risk by NOT playing him. The risk being the club implodes, rather than Charlie getting injured.
I'd play him....
But I can understand a reluctance.
If things go bad they'll get crucified.
That mightn't be what's right....but is what will happen.
It's also probably a little different playing your first game when all around you on both sides are battle hardened.
And you and your teammates haven't played together under hard match conditions for some time.
Things can go bad in the 2s Lods, if it happens it happens, its one of those things I reckon. If he is ready from a structural point of view and aerobically can get through an AFL game, I'd play him even as the med sub to start with.
As I said...I'm for playing him.
He may be the 7 goal forward he was in his second to last game.
And be the catalyst for an upset win.
More likely he'll be a little rusty and struggle with the pace of the game.
I suspect there will also still be a bit of caution with respect to time on the ground
We'll see if they're game enough to give him a run but I'll understand if they don't.
As I said...I'm for playing him.
He may be the 7 goal forward he was in his second to last game.
And be the catalyst for an upset win.
More likely he'll be a little rusty and struggle with the pace of the game.
I suspect there will also still be a bit of caution with respect to time on the ground
We'll see if they're game enough to give him a run but I'll understand if they don't.
I just hope for the kids sake he can get back to even some semblance of the player he was before those retched injuries.
As I said...I'm for playing him.
He may be the 7 goal forward he was in his second to last game.
And be the catalyst for an upset win.
More likely he'll be a little rusty and struggle with the pace of the game.
I suspect there will also still be a bit of caution with respect to time on the ground
We'll see if they're game enough to give him a run but I'll understand if they don't.
agree with that but with our season pretty much done and the cupboard bare we may as well play him at afl level.
He can't be any worse than Marc Murphy was last week.
A lot of people have bagged Williams this week, but I thought he was OK up until he was injured just before 1/2-time, it might have been his best 1/2 of footy for us up until that point.
A lot of people have bagged Williams this week, but I thought he was OK up until he was injured just before 1/2-time, it might have been his best 1/2 of footy for us up until that point.
We must have watched a different game. As an example, watch the replay, go to qtr 2 with about 7 mins to go. NM player streams through the middle and fumbles the ball while bouncing. Have a look at the effort from Williams and tell me thats acceptable. Shocking.
Some of the footage being shown, particular the behind the goals footage simply is embarrassing. The ball is in their F50 and we outnumber them 11 to 5. Ball is being pinged around and we couldnt lay a glove on it. They get a shot on goal eventually and miss but 11 to 5 FFS! The efforts from our senior players is beyond belief.
Now they keep showing this stuff week after effin week. What are we doing about it?
Quite apart from the physical and skill development, which is on the coaches and conditioning folks....
I think there are few periods in our last twenty years where we've essentially 'lost our leaders'.
The most dramatic one was probably in the early-mid Pagan years.
As the older players of the nineties retired or were moved on...
A young Marc Murphy came into a side where the leaders were guys like an aging Kouta (great player, arguably not a great leader) Lance Whitnall, Nick Stevens...and Fev
The Judd years were moderately successful but Patrick Cripps only caught the tail of that.
This was his initial leadership group in his first season 2014...
Marc Murphy (c); Andrew Carrazzo, Kade Simpson (vc), Michael Jamison (dvc), Bryce Gibbs, Lachlan Henderson, Brock McLean, Andrew Walker.
Some good, average footballers, but in terms of leadership probably only one or two had the necessary qualities.
So to the rebuild... and we look and see that only one of our 2014 leadership group remains at the club...and he is struggling to get a game.
Now with players like Weitering and Walsh we may have the nucleus of a strong leadership group, but the results of those guys influencing younger players and have them joining them in leadership positions is probably still a season or two away.
Contrast that with some of the successful clubs, where young players undergo an initiation under the guidance of strong, experienced leaders and you see another reason why we struggle.
It's a sad state that a club that once prided itself on the quality of its 'player leaders' has this more recent history of mediocrity, which has been passed down through each new generation of leaders.
Thanks Lods, you have set out very clearly the problems we now face with leadership issues. When combined with all the other issues that we know about, and others at Board level which we know nothing about but can make an educated guess, it is indeed a depressing picture.
To use an old saying, "We have more problems than you can poke a stick at."
Six years ago I bought into the whole rebuild idea as being the solution to our problems. Instead, we seem to have dug ourselves into a very deep hole with no obvious way out.
Maybe the covid lockdown is affecting my judgement, but I just see more years of mediocrity and bottom six positions ahead.
Thanks Lods, you have set out very clearly the problems we now face with leadership issues. When combined with all the other issues that we know about, and others at Board level which we know nothing about but can make an educated guess, it is indeed a depressing picture.
To use an old saying, "We have more problems than you can poke a stick at."
Six years ago I bought into the whole rebuild idea as being the solution to our problems. Instead, we seem to have dug ourselves into a very deep hole with no obvious way out.
Maybe the covid lockdown is affecting my judgement, but I just see more years of mediocrity and bottom six positions ahead.
Here's my opinion on it and Ill probably get smashed for it but stiff crap. When we embarked on the rebuild plan under Bolts and SOS, it seemed for the first time in a long time, we had a plan. Everyone was patient, it was a whole of club plan. Then all of a sudden, on the back of poor performances, we blinked, deviated from or rather abandoned the plan, sacked the coach. Apart from a sugar hit at the start, we are we have fallen into "old Carlton" mode and we seem clueless on all fronts again.
Here's my opinion on it and Ill probably get smashed for it but stiff crap. When we embarked on the rebuild plan under Bolts and SOS, it seemed for the first time in a long time, we had a plan. Everyone was patient, it was a whole of club plan. Then all of a sudden, on the back of poor performances, we blinked, deviated from or rather abandoned the plan, sacked the coach. Apart from a sugar hit at the start, we are we have fallen into "old Carlton" mode and we seem clueless on all fronts again.
But off the back of that, it's not unreasonable to suggest a poor decision was made in appointing Teague.
But off the back of that, it's not unreasonable to suggest a poor decision was made in appointing Teague.
Yes but at the same time, IMO like with Bolton, It appears not enough has been done to ensure his success. I dont want to sound like a broken record but Richmond identified areas Hardwick needed to improve on and assistance with. The result is history. Whether it has occurred or not is what I hope the review uncovers. There are suggestions he was offered new assistants last year and turned it down. If thats the case, and the review identifies the assistants aren't up to scratch, thats partly on him and partly on the club. Anyway this is off topic here so apologies.
Tuesday, and SEN still doing their utmost to get Teague sacked.
After watching the game I'm convinced that it's not Teague that's the problem....its the players. We've got a couple that refuse point blank to do anything when the opposition have the ball, and also a couple that are physically incapable of exerting defensive pressure. It's not a recipe for success. Defensive pressure needs to become the collective priority.
Tuesday, and SEN still doing their utmost to get Teague sacked.
The SEN crew's mate John "Bambi" Barker got the kybosh, so they are hell bent on revenge, this was always going to happen as the media is not impartial at any time!
Not having heard it, I suspect you'll tell me Jab Snr and Lyon have gone to town on Teague using a 3rd party specialist commentator like King or McGuane to back them up. And they probably at some stage quoted Caro as a source exposing rifts in our club surfacing as part of "The Review". Eye for an Eye, but most of what they state is made up formulaic dribble, and they do it so often we can predict what they will state with unnerving accuracy! Which is what I did weeks ago when I predicted a media backlash over the demise of John "Bambi" Barker.
The real problem is people listen to them without questioning or verifying the statements they make.
Tuesday, and SEN still doing their utmost to get Teague sacked.
After watching the game I'm convinced that it's not Teague that's the problem....its the players. We've got a couple that refuse point blank to do anything when the opposition have the ball, and also a couple that are physically incapable of exerting defensive pressure. It's not a recipe for success. Defensive pressure needs to become the collective priority.
There's that and there's structural elements. I too watched the second half last night only after seeing some isolated and behind the goals footage on Fox. Its was worse than I thought and came to the conclusion its a whole host of things. The question is, will they properly indenify all the issues, weight them and address them.
Our problems seem to stem not from our players not being unaware of what to do but of not being motivated to do it. Analysis of on field play and tactics alone won't fix our problems. We need a much deeper analysis of the collective club psyche to find the core of the problem. Not sure this review will do that.
There's that and there's structural elements.
Not much the club can do at the moment, the only two KPPs they have left are both KPDs.
But I've got to ask this question, why such a change in a week form a list that had quite a similar mix of talls and smalls?
I realise Cripps for McKay is not a like for like, but the mix remained, yet the problem wasn't really in those KPPs, it was in the defensive run from the midfield and small forwards.
When Williams injured his hammy a few minutes before 1/2-time, the character of the game changed, and guys missing in the first half didn't step up at all!
Not much the club can do at the moment, the only two KPPs they have left are both KPDs.
But I've got to ask this question, why such a change in a week form a list that had quite a similar mix of talls and smalls?
I realise Cripps for McKay is not a like for like, but the mix remained, yet the problem wasn't really in those KPPs, it was in the defensive run from the midfield and small forwards.
When Williams injured his hammy a few minutes before 1/2-time, the character of the game changed, and guys missing in the first half didn't step up at all!
Statistically Williams was quite good.
he had it 13 times with a 77% disposal accuracy with only 39% game time.
Statistically Williams was quite good.
he had it 13 times with a 77% disposal accuracy with only 39% game time.
Yes, his naysayers aren't really commenting on a reality.
The loss of his run was dramatic, because the guys who ran and spread so well, and ran deep defensively the week before, just didn't do it after 1/2-time last weekend. Dow, Williamson, Kennedy, SPS, Fisher were all AWOL, and with the loss of Betts only Owies kept up the deep running with some support from Newman and Newnes.
I realise Kennedy was partly AWOL because of the way we used him, and I stand by my pre-game conjecture that making that change to allow Cripps into the midfield was flirting with Kennedy's form and was a huge mistake. It also I think sends the wrong message, to both the team and Cripps.
Kennedy must be played as that inside midfielder or the relief ruck - tackles with intent but physical limitations are such that once the ball exits congestion he can't get there.
Once Betts got injured our forward half pressure dropped to bugger all. He might not always kicks goals but he keeps the defenders honest.
Cottrell runs hard both ways but doesn't get enough of the ball to hurt.... Maybe trial as as in all hard tagger in that Ed role and play a better ball winner on the wing EG Carroll.
There's two others that refuse to chase with effort, whether through choice or a desire to conserve petrol (= lack of confidence in fitness), it needs addressing.
There's two others that refuse to chase with effort, whether through choice or a desire to conserve petrol (= lack of confidence in fitness), it needs addressing.
You can name them if you like!
No, I think they're obvious and I'm tired of being castigated for having an unpopular opinion.
No, I think they're obvious and I'm tired of being castigated for having an unpopular opinion.
Fark that Prof, you're entitled to an opinion mate, its neither right, wrong or otherwise. Don't be bullied into not expressing your thoughts.
Fark that Prof, you're entitled to an opinion mate, its neither right, wrong or otherwise. Don't be bullied into not expressing your thoughts.
I agree, anyway in the wash up we do not know what is a trait and what is a coaching directive, so we can only speculate.
Paul Sebastiani's views on the North Melbourne game. He doesn't hold back.
https://youtu.be/aZuXzyoSFvY
Apparently I'm a loser because I didn't play footy at AFL level, so I can't have an opinion.
Not much the club can do at the moment, the only two KPPs they have left are both KPDs.
But I've got to ask this question, why such a change in a week form a list that had quite a similar mix of talls and smalls?
I realise Cripps for McKay is not a like for like, but the mix remained, yet the problem wasn't really in those KPPs, it was in the defensive run from the midfield and small forwards.
I covered these sorts of questions earlier.
IMO we were rather lucky the last couple of weeks. I thought it was a miracle the cats didn't get a hold of us when we only had Weitering, Harry and TDK.
Then i thought we were pretty lucky against the Pies, even when we had Jones back.
Losing Harry for the kangas game was a bridge too far IMO. The straw that broke the camels back.
Apparently I'm a loser because I didn't play footy at AFL level, so I can't have an opinion.
Yep, that member comment was petty, disrespectful and juvenile Prof. Sh@t me right off
Apparently I'm a loser because I didn't play footy at AFL level, so I can't have an opinion.
Well I'd guess we are all losers then as I am yet to know of anyone on this site who has declared themselves as an ex AFL player. If I had to guess, the only one would come close is Steph Chiocci (Chiacci17 back in the day). Knowing Steph personally, I can guarantee you she would be the last person to deny you an opinion
Yep, that member comment was petty, disrespectful and juvenile Prof. Sh@t me right off
Are you saying there are members on this forum that haven’t played AFL? Outrageous, I’m outta here😜
You do NOT belittle the opinion of a member on ANY account. He did. Lost all respect for any of his comments.
Well I'd guess we are all losers then as I am yet to know of anyone on this site who has declared themselves as an ex AFL player. If I had to guess, the only one would come close is Steph Chiocci (Chiacci17 back in the day). Knowing Steph personally, I can guarantee you she would be the last person to deny you an opinion
I'm Spartacus ;)
Swan McKay used to post on one of the forums.
Andrew Walkers dad was on here for a while (parents shouldn't get involved in forum activity, they'll get no joy from it.)
You sometimes read a comment where a poster will tell another that they 'know nothing about football.'
Funny thing is it's usually the original poster whose football knowledge is questionable.
Football is not that predictable and is totally illogical.
Our views are often based on our own perceptions.. and in many cases biases.
re Injuries (and not allowed to use that as an excuse)......f**k that noise.
Sure, players should put in effort, and thats a separate issue. But lack of team balance can put players in that frame of mind to an extent.
But like in that video above, the negativity towards Teague not being able to orchestrate some moves against the 18th side is bollocks.
Yes, he is employed to coach the side.
Yes, a builder is employed to build a house.
But....if that builder can't get access to Timber, Bricks and Concrete.....doesn't matter how good that builder is, that house is not getting built!
Teague simply doesn't have the materials at his disposal so suggesting that he can't coach because he lost to the 18th side is ignorant.
We have a teams worth of injuries on the sidelines, some of the players we have playing are not fit (Cripps should be on the sidelines too!) 2021 is done. Lets not ruin 2022 by jumping at shadows.
You do NOT belittle the opinion of a member on ANY account. He did. Lost all respect for any of his comments.
Sorry, what is all this in reference too?
I think i've missed something here.
Injuries are an excuse.
They destroy your structures, your planning and put extra burdens on those who have to cover the injured.
They are especially important when they occur mid match
Sorry, what is all this in reference too?
I think i've missed something here.
I'm not gonna name and shame him on here
@kruddler ... but he picked what was assumed to be an easy target, crossed the line and it pi55ed me
right off.
I'm not gonna name and shame him on here @kruddler ... but he picked what was assumed to be an easy target, crossed the line and it pi55ed me right off.
I've gathered that much, don't know who, when where and why though. *shrugs*
Sorry, what is all this in reference too?
I think i've missed something here.
I missed it too.
Well I'd guess we are all losers then as I am yet to know of anyone on this site who has declared themselves as an ex AFL player. If I had to guess, the only one would come close is Steph Chiocci (Chiacci17 back in the day). Knowing Steph personally, I can guarantee you she would be the last person to deny you an opinion
My 490 AFL games would qualify me then. I should be games record holder with that total. Can't work out why I never see it recognised?...lol.
You do NOT belittle the opinion of a member on ANY account. He did. Lost all respect for any of his comments.
I missed it Cap.
To you guys, I did not ... it was cheap, contemptible and primarily aimed at another member.
No more on this subject please.
I missed it Cap.
Me too....nothing more childish than the old you didnt play AFL so you cant have an opinion routine.
Nothing wrong with opinions, it’s the explicit expression of them that’s the problem… imho.
You know the saying, opinions are like dot holes. Everyones got one, and no one thinks theirs stinks.
The ability to agree to disagree is what seperates us from neanderthals.
https://www.carltonfc.com.au/video/988702/weitering-on-getting-back-to-form?videoId=988702&modal=true&type=video&fbclid=IwAR0Xh7xXhR0axLagK8HHNhuK5zkHkZ3uHuk_SRCURuWAGYYyPL4lDvk6YeM
https://www.carltonfc.com.au/video/988702/weitering-on-getting-back-to-form?videoId=988702&modal=true&type=video&fbclid=IwAR0Xh7xXhR0axLagK8HHNhuK5zkHkZ3uHuk_SRCURuWAGYYyPL4lDvk6YeM
A brutally honest young man.
Good luck and a speedy recovery to Ben Cunnington who had emergency surgery to remove a testicular tumour.
This seems to be happening far too often.
https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/afl-news-2021-carlton-loss-to-north-melbourne-footy-department-review-david-teague-eddie-betts-interview-360/news-story/3c4c8c9abbdbc82cd0f493c562ae2b34
Why do they need a brutal assessment after a bad loss ? They seem to have them every season. Not sure why the message takes so long to sink in.
https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/afl-news-2021-carlton-loss-to-north-melbourne-footy-department-review-david-teague-eddie-betts-interview-360/news-story/3c4c8c9abbdbc82cd0f493c562ae2b34
Why do they need a brutal assessment after a bad loss ? They seem to have them every season. Not sure why the message takes so long to sink in.
This is the second or third 'brutal assessment' this year. Enough said.
Good luck and a speedy recovery to Ben Cunnington who had emergency surgery to remove a testicular tumour.
This seems to be happening far too often.
Yep, agree.....hopefully there is some research into this and the obvious issues like trauma due to heavy physical contact, tight clothing etc are investigated. I always remember Peter Crimmins from Hawthorn and how it took his life.
All the best to Ben Cunnington for a quick recovery..
This is the second or third 'brutal assessment' this year. Enough said.
Even a sugar hit will do at this stage of the year.
Yep, agree.....hopefully there is some research into this and the obvious issues like trauma due to heavy physical contact, tight clothing etc are investigated. I always remember Peter Crimmins from Hawthorn and how it took his life.
All the best to Ben Cunnington for a quick recovery..
Ch 7 reporting he faces a significant challenge. Didn't like the sound of them, get well soon Ben.