With us failing to make the finals again, and failing to to win a premiership for the 25th year, I was wondering we thought of the season. Was there anything we learnt about our future? Are we headed in the right direction> What haven't we learnt from 2021?
I am sure there will be a lot to say. I know I have a bit on my mind.
I suspect this will be a recapitulation of grievances / opinions in other threads. I was thinking myself of starting a 2021 review thread.
1. Sacking Teague is a disgrace.
2. I predicted a 9th-11th finish at the start of the year. We did a little worse mainly due to injuries, covid and the review.
3. The Review is a farce and a waste of time.
4. The Board and executive should be sacked / resign.
5. Teague needs better support, especially in defence and stoppage work.
6. Old Carlton is back with a vengeance.
More to come.
[1] We have not learnt the full capability of out list:
It is rather scary to think, but Marc Murphy never actually played a game where the entire list was available to select from. He played 300 games and it could have been more, but for injury. Murphy was drafted this century. The malaise actually goes back farther than that. Maybe, there was a week in 1999, although I doubt it. There wasn't one in 1996. In 1995 we may have been close ...
Just think what that means to a team, NEVER to have your best combination on the park, in fact, never quite knowing what your best combination is, because some guys may never have played with some others.
Look what happened to us in the past: Wayne Brittain wasn't a bad coach. Under him we got to the finals in 2001. But in 2002 we were on the bottom. Why? Not because our coach was incompetent, but that we had a large number of injuries we couldn't cover. Brittain was the scapegoat.
John Elliot also had his comeuppance, an event that hurt us for years to come.
Why did Richmond fail this year? Arrogance and injuries.
With a large part of your talent sitting in the stands, even the best sides falter. We have been experiencing this for at least twenty years!
[2] Have we learnt that David Teague can coach?
I would not argue that he can't coach. Consider how we played against Essendon and St. Kilda this year. Those were really good wins. He's had two full seasons and a part of one. Even Malthouse got more than that.
I admit freely that I was disappointed with Teague's coaching this year. He was outcoached often. Our defensive structures are not that great, even though we do have some defensive talent.
Has he had support from his assistants? I would find it hard to argue the positive case.
Brett Ratten is a better coach now than he was when he coached us. He had a couple of really obvious weaknesses: he wouldn't make a change and he wouldn't pick a side to best hurt the opposition. he also thought we had enough talent to win a flag when we didn't.
Does he do those things now? I doubt it. He learns and St. Kilda are improving because of it.
Now we may never know if Teague is the man or not. The review process didn't help him either.
[3] Were we right to select a young, untried coach in the first place?
History suggests that we weren't, as we haven't improved that much since Bolton left. We have improved: we don't tend to loose by huge margins very often any more. But have we improved enough to save a career? That looks unlikely.
[4] Have we solved the development issues?
I don't think so, but I do feel we are moving in the right direction. Our player development this century has been appalling. Our recruiting was worse for a long time, but we do seem to be doing better there. Not perfect, but nowhere near as poor as we were under Wayne Hughes.
We appear to be trying to develop our players more. I hope to see more of that in the next few years. But I think the review process is not going to be pleasant reading in this area.
[5] Would we care about the board of we were winning games?
I don't know that we would. There have been problems there for a long time, but if we were winning, there would be no reasons for the actions to exist. We would be a much more harmonious ship.
Do I like the way things are going? Not sure that I do. There seems to be considerably less democratic processes that there were in the past. But, with a number of the older heads moving on, I don't think the board is the source of all our woes.
Is it the source of any of our woes? Absolutely. We do need more football people involved, in my humble opinion. We are not just a business. Infighting has cause problems. But most of those people are leaving, or have left. I am not willing to bash the new administration: yet.
1: Playing List
I think our playing list is fine. The problem with our list is the age demographic. There are too many under 23's, not enough 24's to 28's and the 29+'s have not been of a high enough quality or quantity to carry the your list. Melbourne recruited Lewis, Mitchell went
to WCE and Hodge to Brisbane to provide leadership and experience. If I was going to get someone like for Carlton that I would be looking at Pendlebury. Next season, and from then on, we start getting more and more quality players into the 24 to 28 age bracket.
2: Injuries
I think we must have between 250 and 300 players unavailable for selection throughout the season. We were unable to get our best players onto the field in any consistent manner, which obviously meant we were unable to get our best team onto the ground. . Our high injury list meant that a number of players appeared to be playing injured throughout the year. Cripps, Casboult and McKay are three I would mention.
3: Disposal and decision making
The standard of our field kicking continues to be of concern. There are players who I really worry about when the ball is in their hands, particularly in the backline, Jones, Plowman and Newman come to mind. Making the right decision when under pressure and not panicking was a concern. I was not sure whether this came about through a lack awareness, poor thought process or they didn't trust their team mates. We also missed to many gettable goals. I think our kicking lacks penetration and power. There seems to be too many players unable to kick over fifty meters. There also seems to be too many players not willing to take the responsibility to kick the goal. We need to learn how to do the simple things well.
4: Team cohesion
We don't seem to run to space to open the ground for others enough. We don't do enough blocking so our tall forwards have a easier run to the all. Too many players get attracted to the ball meaning we get hurt on the outside and our forward line gets crowded. Players pick and chose when they will be committed to the game which leads to the team and team mates going into their shells in a means of self protection. We don't run to cover others so we leave team mates in the lurch. We have three players who are likely to be named in the All Australian Team, yet we finished in the bottom half of the ladder.
our list is overrated big time,soft ,weak players like sps,plowman,setterfield,Lob.Even Kennedy been in the system 5 years plays a game and gets 23 possies and we are rapt for example.Need to add some quick strong players for 2022 and we will play finals. Opposition people laugh at plowman
Opposition people laugh at plowman
Sorry but I've got to call bullcrap on that claim, they might laugh at him being suspended for attacking the footy, but nobody with a sane mind calls Plowman soft at the contest.
our list is overrated big time,soft ,weak players like sps,plowman,setterfield,Lob.Even Kennedy been in the system 5 years plays a game and gets 23 possies and we are rapt for example.Need to add some quick strong players for 2022 and we will play finals. Opposition people laugh at plowman
The only people who laugh at Plowman are Carlton supporters who can't see the wood for the trees ::)
Carlton supporters aren't laughing.
our list is overrated big time,soft ,weak players like sps,plowman,setterfield,Lob.Even Kennedy been in the system 5 years plays a game and gets 23 possies and we are rapt for example.Need to add some quick strong players for 2022 and we will play finals. Opposition people laugh at plowman
Im not anti Plowman but agree with the rest of your comments, there is a degree of talent on the list IMO but also plenty of holes and we lack depth in key areas. I think the brand we play might be about to change though and that might sort out some of those players you mentioned and few others.
We certainly shouldn't be counting any chickens with our present list.
Delete
I suspect this will be a recapitulation of grievances / opinions in other threads. I was thinking myself of starting a 2021 review thread.
1. Sacking Teague is a disgrace.
2. I predicted a 9th-11th finish at the start of the year. We did a little worse mainly due to injuries, covid and the review.
3. The Review is a farce and a waste of time.
4. The Board and executive should be sacked / resign.
5. Teague needs better support, especially in defence and stoppage work.
6. Old Carlton is back with a vengeance.
More to come.
You might get you wish with the Board. Heading to an EGM on October 27.
'The Blues’ battle of the boardroom has been set for October 27 after a rebel Carlton supporter group formally triggered the process for an EGM and spill of the board.'
You might get you wish with the Board. Heading to an EGM on October 27.
'The Blues’ battle of the boardroom has been set for October 27 after a rebel Carlton supporter group formally triggered the process for an EGM and spill of the board.'
Which would explain the 4 new board members… the old “Look ! We’ve just renewed the board, you need to give us a chance to implement the review” trick.
Sorry but I've got to call bullcrap on that claim, they might laugh at him being suspended for attacking the footy, but nobody with a sane mind calls Plowman soft at the contest.
He’s not soft but he is an ordinary player, who regularly panics and makes poor decisions on the field and has below average skills and pace. He’s got no currency on the trade table whatsoever for very good reason.
I’ve heard all the arguments that his selflessness allows others like Saad and Jones to freewheel, but the harsh reality is that no top 8 team would even entertain the thought of Plowman on their list.
Out of interest what do you think you could get for Plowman at the trade table?
We certainly shouldn't be counting any chickens with our present list.
Yet we do Cookie. We set high expectations and fail. Year after year. That to me is the greatest failing of the club.
Yet we do Cookie. We set high expectations and fail. Year after year. That to me is the greatest failing of the club.
That's is a big issue. Straight away Sayers puts the next coach under pressure saying he expects finals.
There are some supporters who are the same hence they are quick to want to sack a coach.
That's is a big issue. Straight away Sayers puts the next coach under pressure saying he expects finals.
There supporters who are the same hence they are quick to want to sack a coach.
And so it goes on and on and on.... and here we sit 20yrs later.
Do other clubs constantly set such expectations and create undue pressure from day 1?
Do other clubs have a more realistic understanding of the capacity of their list?
Is the cohesion between football and non-football departments better?
Out of interest what do you think you could get for Plowman at the trade table?
Completely depends on who you are trading with.
Did you expect to end up with a 1st round pick from Henderson trade?
Did you expect to end up with a 1st round pick from Tuohy trade?
I'd rate Plowman as more important to our team than both of them were.
He’s not soft but he is an ordinary player, who regularly panics and makes poor decisions on the field and has below average skills and pace. He’s got no currency on the trade table whatsoever for very good reason.
I’ve heard all the arguments that his selflessness allows others like Saad and Jones to freewheel, but the harsh reality is that no top 8 team would even entertain the thought of Plowman on their list.
Out of interest what do you think you could get for Plowman at the trade table?
Plowman would be around a 3rd rounder IMO......not KP and to the casual observer wouldnt look that good seeing the quality
of players he plays on and the goals kicked on him.
As others have suggested he is worth more to us who know the level of responsibility he has each week. He has his issues but we dont have that Vlastuin/Grimes type player/s who you can play on those inbetween types that are hard to match up on.
Agreed Elwood. At a pinch, a second rounder. But I'd keep him
I was his biggest fan but he was embarrassing thus season. He needs to win a lot more one on ones and make a lot less fatal (= coughs up goals) mistakes. Went to ground and pushed out of marking contests far too easily and that is unlike him. A couple of years ago he was very hard to score on, in 2021 he was a shell of the player he was. Long term I reckon Kemp will take his spot.
I was his biggest fan but he was embarrassing thus season. He needs to win a lot more one on ones and make a lot less fatal (= coughs up goals) mistakes. Went to ground and pushed out of marking contests far too easily and that is unlike him. A couple of years ago he was very hard to score on, in 2021 he was a shell of the player he was. Long term I reckon Kemp will take his spot.
Plowman had an ordinary year this year, no doubt about it. But he will get the job as long as there is nobody better at the job. Maybe we can find one, but he will take a year or two to replace Plow.
If we get a better defensive structure in 2022, I expect Plow to play better. We have talent in defence, but they don't play like the team defence you see at Melbourne. If they did, nobody would be complaining.
He’s not soft but he is an ordinary player, who regularly panics and makes poor decisions on the field and has below average skills and pace. He’s got no currency on the trade table whatsoever for very good reason.
I’ve heard all the arguments that his selflessness allows others like Saad and Jones to freewheel, but the harsh reality is that no top 8 team would even entertain the thought of Plowman on their list.
Out of interest what do you think you could get for Plowman at the trade table?
Fourth in the John Nicholls Medal last season and I reckon he'll be in the top 10 this season.
It would depend on which teams need a steady, third tall defender but you would have to be looking at a second round pick and a player ... not that we'd want to trade Plowman.
Fourth in the John Nicholls Medal last season and I reckon he'll be in the top 10 this season.
3rd the year before that.
Some hack called Sam Walsh finished 4th that year.
I want to know how/why we trash new recruit when they come to Princes Park...
Dees - lever and May playing like solid A graders.
Port - Aliir. Gun (even if Weiters was beaten and robbed)
Brisvegas - Neale, Daniher, Lyons even Robbo years back went to a new level. Important contributors.
We have Brackets, Williams, Martin (arguably Saad at times this year and throw in Marchy) - if not side lined, playing on 1 leg or struggling for form.
Have any of them (Saad aside) had a decent injury free run at it?
That group's output alone is enough to determine the outcome of many a close game....
I want to know how/why we trash new recruit when they come to Princes Park...
Dees - lever and May playing like solid A graders.
Port - Aliir. Gun (even if Weiters was beaten and robbed)
Brisvegas - Neale, Daniher, Lyons even Robbo years back went to a new level. Important contributors.
We have Brackets, Williams, Martin (arguably Saad at times this year and throw in Marchy) - if not side lined, playing on 1 leg or struggling for form.
Have any of them (Saad aside) had a decent injury free run at it?
That group's output alone is enough to determine the outcome of many a close game....
Those players have consistent long term injury problems. They miss a 3rd of the season usually.. Marchbank is a write off.
If he was a horse he would be at bunnings in a bottle in the wood glue section..
really concerned about defense ,weits,30 yr old jones,williams thats about it ,rest are just fill ins.
https://www.zerohanger.com/2021-afl-season-review-carlton-93048/?fbclid=IwAR0Dd_Sd1F6SDIuk8K7psW2fWiaP5zC-6BoetK1Vqi9JUb33R02ojyfe3Uk
We have learnt our midfield is crap and have addressed it appropriately. I think Teague has done an outstanding job with Harry and Weitering. It's up top Vossy to get that midfield humming and keep Harry and Weitering at elite levels