Stabbed in the back? Suck it up surrender monkeys. Talk about throw your toys out of the cot.
How very small you are.
China
Stabbed in the back? Suck it up surrender monkeys. Talk about throw your toys out of the cot.
How very small you are.
China situation is bad, they have threatened to attack us with missiles in the sth China Sea and we need the USA muscle to back us up and have hence gone with their nuke subs.
They are also screwing our economy slowly too driving the price of iron ore down.
Id be changing foreign ownership of titles, companies etc in Aus and also buying back our Ports they own and refusing to let them own our major power companies like Alinta etc.
They have a strong economic hold on Aus and we need to break that.
Sick of their crap box cars as well, SAIC can also take a hike from this country and sell their fake MGs somewhere else too..
Indeed EB ... get them out of our country, bring in nuke subs from the U.S. and set up an American naval base out of Darwin. Better than waving the white flag like adam bandt.
As long as the English longbowmen are on our side the French won't be a problem. >:(
Indeed EB ... get them out of our country, bring in nuke subs from the U.S. and set up an American naval base out of Darwin. Better than waving the white flag like adam bandt.
Adam Bandt can stick his white flag where the sun don't shine and won't provide any renewable energy.
https://7news.com.au/politics/floating-chernobyls-greens-blast-sub-deal-c-3978280
I agree.
https://theconversation.com/cest-fini-can-the-australia-france-relationship-be-salvaged-after-scrapping-the-sub-deal-168090
https://theconversation.com/why-nuclear-submarines-are-a-smart-military-move-for-australia-and-could-deter-china-further-168064
I can understand why the French would be pissed off, though. The contract did blow out from $50b to $90b, but for an ironic reason. The cost blow out was a result of our insistence the French retrofit nuclear submarines to run on conventional power. And now we've bought nuclear submarines from the US/UK! I can understand why they'd react by saying, "Putain! C'est quoi, ce bordel ?"
I can understand why the French would be pissed off, though. The contract did blow out from $50b to $90b, but for an ironic reason. The cost blow out was a result of our insistence the French retrofit nuclear submarines to run on conventional power. And now we've bought nuclear submarines from the US/UK! I can understand why they'd react by saying, "Putain! C'est quoi, ce bordel ?"
Thank turnbull for that monumental FU.
We are becoming an extremely strategic base in the growing conflict between the West and China and can expect a major build up of the US military here in the coming years. The game has changed and the military requirements will be different. Bad luck for the French as we will now be a part of a much more integrated force, relinquishing the more independent model we have been following.
We are becoming an extremely strategic base in the growing conflict between the West and China and can expect a major build up of the US military here in the coming years. The game has changed and the military requirements will be different. Bad luck for the French as we will now be a part of a much more integrated force, relinquishing the more independent model we have been following.
Meanwhile NZ and Jacinda are reading up on how to be the Switzerland of the Pacific.
They don't want US Warships in their waters but will be wanting US help when a Chinese Sub pops up in Karaka Bay and says hello..
Meanwhile NZ and Jacinda are reading up on how to be the Switzerland of the Pacific.
They don't want US Warships in their waters but will be wanting US help when a, Chinese Sub pops up in Karaka Bay and says hello..
If its a nuclear sub they'll ask it to go away...
I don't understand the media's want for us to obey and oblige the EU, it's basically been screwing us on all fronts since Brexit!
I feel the best way forward now is old alliances, Commonwealth and USA.
Ignore the noise coming from Indonesia, Fiji, New Zealand and Malaysia, that is the Chinese Yen talking to politicians. Ask the general public in those regions and you'll get a very different story, they see their jobs evaporating to Chinese taxes, duties and subsidies. It's not a level playing field and never will be, because China does not share the same human rights values or the same environmental concerns!
There is a lot of irony in NZ pandering to China, NZ go big on the environment and protecting Antarctica, then support China, China that wants to mine the Antarctic for oil, gas and rare earth minerals, picking up the odd whale for lunch along the way! :o
France has territories and interests in the Pacific.
We should be adding them to the 'alliance'
FAUUKUS ;)
Mururoa atoll ...
'
FAUUKUS ;)
I still think the original name would've been much more effectively put as AUSUK :))
France has territories and interests in the Pacific.
We should be adding them to the 'alliance'
FAUUKUS ;)
Maybe we could also include an agreement with Japan for use of their flag.
Our logo could depict the japanese flag with the alliance acronym you created in bold across the top.
Gives off the impression of us being bent over, presenting and ready for action. ;)
There had been talk recently of CANZUK, a new trading block made up of the old major commonwealth countries. Looks like that may have gone on the back burner?
Wonder how the new AUKUS will impact that and indeed future relationships with the EU and with NATO. We indeed live in interesting times.
There had been talk recently of CANZUK, a new trading block made up of the old major commonwealth countries. Looks like that may have gone on the back burner?
Wonder how the new AUKUS will impact that and indeed future relationships with the EU and with NATO. We indeed live in interesting times.
Very interesting times Cookie.
Also very dangerous times.
China lurks.
This Sub move is more likely to strengthen alliances between Aust, Japan, Indo, Philippines, Fiji, etc., etc. They collectively hate China, it's just that they want the Yen so they say one thing and whisper another.
I'm not a big fan of people who take fake offense, but it seems to be France's way of doing business.
There is some significant irony in France accusing Australia of treating it badly, we should ask some Australian wine makers what they think of how France kyboshed Australian exports into the EU wine market, while supporting wine operations in Argentina and Sth America to do the very same, French owned operation of course! ;)
More fake than a soccer dive!
All of this mess on Turnbull and his mincing poodle Pyne for signing the idiotic sub contract.
Should have been US nukes from day one ... and armed IMO.
All of this mess on Turnbull and his mincing poodle Pyne for signing the idiotic sub contract.
Should have been US nukes from day one ... and armed IMO.
Julia Gillard got into hot water for calling Pyne a mincing poodle :)
As I understand the submarines contract between us and the French, there were several milestones at which the contract could be terminated if there were issues with progress/delivery. Of course, termination, even if justified, brings about a penalty payment and we're going to ante up. France clearly knew that the cost overruns and timeline blowouts had placed the contract in jeopardy. Indeed, a French Parliamentarian raised the matter a month or two ago.
The problem with the subs contract, and most other defence purchases, is that we often go for untested technology like the F-35A Lightning, or ask for modifications that compromise functionality. The overweight weapons system on the Army's Boxer Combat Reconnaissance Vehicles is an example of the latter. The French subs may have taken decades to commission and may never have been fit for service.
Buying submarines 'off the the shelf' is a much smarter and more efficient way to go, particularly if we go for the cheaper, smaller UK Astute Class subs. However, the problem with acquiring nuclear subs is that we will struggle to get and maintain the numbers of highly trained submariners required. Our Collins Class subs are often inactive not because they're unreliable but because we can't get enough matelots to crew them.
Julia Gillard got into hot water for calling Pyne a mincing poodle :)
For once, she got something right.
Apparently the French were contracted to re-engineer nuclear submarines to be diesel powered. Never done before so surprise surprise, problems and delays.
Apparently the French were contracted to re-engineer nuclear submarines to be diesel powered. Never done before so surprise surprise, problems and delays.
You could also question why they took the contract, dumb in both parts.
For once, she got something right.
I don’t know about that, calling out Abbott’s misogyny was outstanding, although her failure to mention his sh1t-eating grin lost a few points.
And then there’s her innovative approach to tackling climate change. As Boris Johnson said, humanity needs to grow up and take climate change seriously. Gillard was aware of that well before the leaders of most developed nations.
A mate from the UK who has spent quite a bit of time as the MD of a French Technology company says Australia was lucky to get out of the Sub deal while it could. He said working and dealing with the French is a 24x7 effort managing degraded expectations and looking for future loopholes to close.
He thinks France must have invented the "Rubber Time" that is famous in Asian and Pacific Island regions, and that they have turned C'est La Vie into a way of life when it comes to over-promising and under-delivering!
You can rationalise and justify anything in this world, and there seems to be a few people barracking for Morrison, but Macron, Biden and Turnbull have all given a fairly honest assessment of him in recent days. People need to decide what their personal values are and decide whether this submarine fiasco coincides with these values.
A mate from the UK who has spent quite a bit of time as the MD of a French Technology company says Australia was lucky to get out of the Sub deal while it could. He said working and dealing with the French is a 24x7 effort managing degraded expectations and looking for future loopholes to close.
He thinks France must have invented the "Rubber Time" that is famous in Asian and Pacific Island regions, and that they have turned C'est La Vie into a way of life when it comes to over-promising and under-delivering!
Today I watched an excerpt from a recent senate estimates committee in which a senior public servant was asked about the planning process for the submarines and cost overruns.
His answer was that the process was progressing as anticipated, that the costs had not blown out at all and were within the limits set when the contract was signed.
His answer was that the process was progressing as anticipated, that the costs had not blown out at all and were within the limits set when the contract was signed.
Did they say what those limits were, or was he inferring it was still $90B?
I've heard the real budget was almost double!
IMHO the fact that we got ourselves into this contract in the first place was disaster and a self inflicted wound. The project involved converting and reengineering nuclear powered vessels to use diesel power. What could possibly go wrong?
There seemed also to be too much focus on creating jobs in Australia and maybe a loss of focus on the challenges that could be faced, let alone the longer term strategic needs.
Anyway, it's a disaster whichever way you look at it.
Did they say what those limits were, or was he inferring it was still $90B?
I've heard the real budget was almost double!
It DID blow out ... thanks to Turnbull who wouldn't touch nuclear and the French who had no idea what they were getting into.
You can rationalise and justify anything in this world, and there seems to be a few people barracking for Morrison, but Macron, Biden and Turnbull have all given a fairly honest assessment of him in recent days. People need to decide what their personal values are and decide whether this submarine fiasco coincides with these values.
I'm not sure we've done the right thing and Morrison has some explaining to do, but Macron is a rejected suitor (and probably a bit pissed about the whole AUKUS arrangement. That's probably fair enough because France could/should be involved), Turnbull is just a sad, bitter man who'll have a shot any time he gets a chance, and 'Smokin Joe' doesn't have a clue who Morrison is.
.................. but Macron is a rejected suitor
I think what Macron thinks of Morrison as a measure of either Morrison or Australia is the wrong measure.
For me the tell was how quickly Macron jumped back into bed with the USA, the country that mowed his lawn, it shows you how superficial the offense taken and communicated really is!
I'm not sure we've done the right thing and Morrison has some explaining to do, but Macron is a rejected suitor (and probably a bit pissed about the whole AUKUS arrangement. That's probably fair enough because France could/should be involved), Turnbull is just a sad, bitter man who'll have a shot any time he gets a chance, and 'Smokin Joe' doesn't have a clue who Morrison is.
Turnbull got the @rse, deservedly so. He hates not being noticed, same as Rudd. Both are absolute nobodies and nasty sociopaths.
You can rationalise and justify anything in this world, and there seems to be a few people barracking for Morrison, but Macron, Biden and Turnbull have all given a fairly honest assessment of him in recent days. People need to decide what their personal values are and decide whether this submarine fiasco coincides with these values.
The thing about the Liar from the Shire is that he's not afraid to throw anybody under a bus if there's a chance that it might help his image/career. If anyone's looking for a definition of sociopath, any aspects of Morrison's behaviour from when he was sacked as head of Tourism Australia to the Macron fiasco will put you on the right track.
Macron is up for re-election next year and is not looking too good by all accounts. Most of his words and actions atm are aimed at trying to improve his prospects. Not saying that Scomo wasn't "a bit clumsy" to paraphrase Joe, but the little Napoleon is certainly making good use of him in his own electoral battle.
Did they say what those limits were, or was he inferring it was still $90B?
I've heard the real budget was almost double!
From memory, I believe he said $90B plus inflation, all within the costings as of 2016.
There is a lot of posturing about Australias role in this, but we are small fry in the scheme of things. This is more about EU geopolitics and Brexit than anything to do with Australia.
We are simply a tool for the UK in this case.
Whether or not either deal was good or bad for Australia is neither here nor there in this case. It might be what we are focussing on, but when you detach the emotion from it, we have torn up one sub deal and signed another for a very similar outcome.
Whether or not either deal was good or bad for Australia is neither here nor there in this case. It might be what we are focussing on, but when you detach the emotion from it, we have torn up one sub deal and signed another for a very similar outcome.
There was a third option ... and it should have been pursued
There is a lot of posturing about Australias role in this, but we are small fry in the scheme of things. This is more about EU geopolitics and Brexit than anything to do with Australia.
We are simply a tool for the UK in this case.
Whether or not either deal was good or bad for Australia is neither here nor there in this case. It might be what we are focussing on, but when you detach the emotion from it, we have torn up one sub deal and signed another for a very similar outcome.
The french subs were to be diesel powered, the new deal provides for nuclear powered vessels intended to support different strategies and goals wrt China. Be interesting to see when these new subs can actually be delivered and what we will do in the meantime. Collins Class?
The french subs were to be diesel powered, the new deal provides for nuclear powered vessels intended to support different strategies and goals wrt China. Be interesting to see when these new subs can actually be delivered and what we will do in the meantime. Collins Class?
That is an issue voters must take up with our own politicians, they basically consigned us to a decade or two of limbo! I've heard beyond 2035 probably 2050.
Too many green nerds get elected that believe the Chinese or North Koreans will respect the Oz Qi or Feng Shui when they start to run out of resources at home, they tell us we don't need submarines or fighter jets we need diplomacy and a nice cup of green tea!
Because as you know, those regimes have demonstrated such a high value and respect for life in their own backyard, so we can trust them to respect our safe space and sovereignty! ::)
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQtr-vs09KwFKnQ7F5hApi-qiiBw2szZihxbA&usqp=CAU)
As a side note, given how quickly Macron went cap in hand to the USA or UK, who's side do you think he'd take if there was a crunch choice between Oz and China? Yet we expect him to honour thy Antipodeans!
Nucular Subs bad, nucular Power Plants good
https://www.theage.com.au/world/europe/macron-backs-nuclear-power-to-meet-france-s-net-zero-ambitions-20211110-p597kk.html
The French have had nuclear subs for around 40 years and nuclear ballistic missile subs for around 25 years. The Australian Government made a deal for a non-nuclear variant of one of the French nuclear subs.
The French have had nuclear subs for around 40 years and nuclear ballistic missile subs for around 25 years. The Australian Government made a deal for a non-nuclear variant of one of the French nuclear subs.
The French like their Nuclear power, they have 50-60 Nuclear plants and run their grid themselves rather than selling it off to privates. Europe of course is a synced system but France are the big player and pride themselves on being experts in the field...
That is an issue voters must take up with our own politicians, they basically consigned us to a decade or two of limbo! I've heard beyond 2035 probably 2050.
Too many green nerds get elected that believe the Chinese or North Koreans will respect the Oz Qi or Feng Shui when they start to run out of resources at home, they tell us we don't need submarines or fighter jets we need diplomacy and a nice cup of green tea!
Because as you know, those regimes have demonstrated such a high value and respect for life in their own backyard, so we can trust them to respect our safe space and sovereignty! ::)
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQtr-vs09KwFKnQ7F5hApi-qiiBw2szZihxbA&usqp=CAU)
As a side note, given how quickly Macron went cap in hand to the USA or UK, who's side do you think he'd take if there was a crunch choice between Oz and China? Yet we expect him to honour thy Antipodeans!
There may well be a problem if Macron had to choose between Australia and China.
Of greater concern to me is counting on the USA in the future to stand by its commitments to Australia.
Let's say that after an 18 month review we decide that the USA has a nuclear sub suitable for our purposes and we sign a contract to purchase x number of subs. Let's also say that Biden's current slump in popularity continues, giving Trump enough encouragement to stand again for election.
If he were to win, do you think the USA would look after our interests?
Given his past foreign affairs performances, he would go for whatever country made him a buck and would tear up a contract with Australia in the blink of an eye.