As co captain.
Hopefully Cripps stands down next.
Rumour is Weitering will replace Docherty as co captain.
Rumour is Weitering will replace Docherty as co captain.
Yes, I've heard that on radio last night, but I've also read around various chat groups that we may be looking at a whole new leadership group.
Personally, if we do not have a new leadership group I can't see us making progress. You can't allow what allegedly went down at our club to persist or it will eventually resurface the moment there is a new disagreement.
On Weitering as a favourite, I have a fairly good source in relation to things involving Weitering and so far I've heard nothing. That may just be due to the Xmas holiday period and Omicron, people might not have been socialising, but it could also be because Weitering doesn't leak!
I agree 100%
Weitering and Walsh are natural leaders and I don't see any reason why we should wait any longer.
Maybe there is no-one else outside those mentioned? Pretty simple conclusion.
Hopefully Cripps stands down next.
Will make it easier for us to trade him next year after his body breaks down again.
Will make it easier for us to trade him next year after his body breaks down again.
It would make it much easier for coaches to maximise his game impact and style if he wasn't forced to set an example by chasing, or on the flip side if coaches and team-mates were free to berate him for not chasing!
He often doesn't chase, not because he doesn't have the will but because he's got no fecking chance of catching anyone, it's a bad look for the captain, so why the feck bother, why force him into a pointless energy sapping effort that delivers nada?
Can you imagine if Parko had forced Diesel chase/follow opposition rovers all over the turf? I mean, it's just pointless!
Give Cripps all the resource he needs to win the footy and use it, and do not run him into the ground trying to be something he isn't and never will be! We've got a Rolls-Royce, we can't be turning it into a Dune-Buggy!
A mates son is managed by Cripps manager, last year he facilitated a meeting between them.
A topic of conversation was Cripps running patterns and the fact that he try’s to stay between the arcs and not get drawn to the wings…
A mates son is managed by Cripps manager, last year he facilitated a meeting between them.
A topic of conversation was Cripps running patterns and the fact that he try’s to stay between the arcs and not get drawn to the wings…
Thats pretty obvious.
Look at his heat map for last year...
(https://s.afl.com.au/heatmaps/2021/990704-11376-2021.png)
edit: It appears for some reason that is a generic heatmap.
Here is Eddie Betts for comparison
(https://s.afl.com.au/heatmaps/2021/990704-11376-2021.png)
Cripps opponent is the problem, when it was just a designated tagger with no offensive skills we could get away with it but as soon as the smarter coaches started running their better players off Cripps thats when the trouble started. Means that players like Curnow, Hewitt, Kennedy have to be picking up Cripps slack and that might work against less talented teams but not the better midfields with more depth.
edit: It appears for some reason that is a generic heatmap.
Here is Eddie Betts for comparison
Who'd have thunk it, the stats people can find online for AFL turn out to be bogus!
There is a truck load of people earning big dollar$ for being specialist commentators and analysts, some of them past players who barely made it out of high school!
So I'm betting this isn't the first or last example you'll find of that, after all AFL isn't full of data scientists!
Cripps opponent is the problem, when it was just a designated tagger with no offensive skills we could get away with it but as soon as the smarter coaches started running their better players off Cripps thats when the trouble started.
That's a problem for our coaches not Cripps, when our coaches cut out the formulaic AFL past player knows best tactical crap the problem will go away!
Let's see if Voss can earn his dollar$?
fwiw, I see the same shizen happening to Maddy Prespakis, and coaches come out and make generic sweeping statements like, "Maddy has to find a way to deal with that!" Maybe that is just media speak, but coach isn't it your fecking job to make maximum use of your resource and to solve such problems?
Dud coaches will just sack/trade the star player and find a replacement who fits the formula!
Dusty doesn't do defensive running.
Dusty doesn't do defensive running.
Agreed, Cripps problem is that he is an elite ball winner who is an ordinary user by foot (both targets and scoring) and often doesn't make great decisions, Dusty is likewise an elite ball winner but one who is an elite user and makes 1st class decisions 9 out of 10.
Cripps isn't involved in the chain of play after disposal, Dusty is.
If we judge Cripps by how Dusty plays Cripps would be a failure, so I think it's not a fair frame of reference. Cripps is at another level inside the contest beyond Dusty.
Our club and coaches say and do nothing when Dusty does yet another throat fend off, they just sit back and watch Cripps get pinged for the very same high contact!
Even worse, they watch Cripps get tackled high and pinged for holding the ball or incorrect disposal, even though his opponent hasn't slowed his progress! It's like the AFL decided because he is a giant it's OK for spud opponents to do whatever they like. Some of them have to literally leave/jump off the ground to get Cripps above his shoulders, and the umpire will call play because Cripps is accused of ducking his head when most of the time he is just stooping to pick up the footy!
I've seen Cripps pinged for initiating high contact just because some spud midget negative defender deliberately stepped into Cripps path and got caught with Cripps shoulder. It's like they are coached to throw their head at Cripps' torso and then beg for a free!
Cripps does his best not to clean them up, I think he is doing the exactly wrong thing, he should take a leaf out of Big Nick's play book and accelerate if they want to play that game, make them pay the Plugger price for getting in his way! Across the competition the opponents will soon start to hesitate and that might be all the extra time Cripps will need. Hesitate a little just like the guys who go to tackle Dusty with the thought of coping a thumb in the larynx!
edit: It appears for some reason that is a generic heatmap.
Here is Eddie Betts for comparison
(https://s.afl.com.au/heatmaps/2021/990704-11376-2021.png)
I don't mind the old "Spot the difference!" puzzle...but that's a real tough one. :D
When Cripps is on his game, and at his best, it really doesn't matter what his opponents are doing.
He's the problem that the opposition need to deal with.
Where it's become a problem for us is that in recent times Cripps hasn't been that influential...it's then that his opponents become an issue for us.
I suspect the more pace we place around Cripps the less of a problem Cripps will become.
Diesel spent his career surrounded by the small fast runners that could leave the stoppage after he fed them the pill. If Diesel had to also run and carry all the time he would have been far less effective.
Our problem is that our midfield is over stocked with players who like Cripps have medium to slow acceleration, average agility and average top pace. Get a few rundown types in their around Cripps and it will all change.
Plus, ever since Judd arrived we've had this sacrificial midfielder game plan, where Cripps or whoever is meant to dominate the stoppage and feed the ball out for the players around him. But in my opinion that only worked with Judd for Judd because he had Cripps inside ball winning ability combined with the most powerful acceleration in the league.
Nthmond's hive mind approach works far better, where they swarm in both directions, but you still need some extreme pace.
Voss was a similar type to Judd, swift and immensely powerful, hopefully he recognises the problem.
With all due respect to Diesel, the game he played is far different to the current game. The speed, endurance and shear gut running is at a whole other level.
Back then, Bradley was a freak because of the way he could gut run.
Today, its expected of not only the mids, but wingers, half backs and half forwards too.
The rules are different now meaning you can't sit someone else behind play to cover for 1 way runners.
We need to adapt.
Cripps can dominate the lesser known midfields out there and might be able to dominate his direct opponent against some of the better midfields out there too. Ultimately, as good as a player that he is, his style is simply not sustainable consistently enough to win week in week out.
Sam Walsh is the midfield player you need now. 3 of him vs 3 of Cripps and the Cripps' will start of well, but be overrun by Walsh's each and every time.
The rules are different now meaning you can't sit someone else behind play to cover for 1 way runners.
Just on this, I know the AFL have said no changes for 2022 but do not be surprised if further COVID interruptions are used by the AFL to justify some late changes to the rules.
I have word that Dad's Army is continually lobbying to get the Stand Rule changed, it's not the best thing for Selwood and some of his compatriots. The Handbaggers have significant influence in the Big House at the moment.
If that happens, then the changes really suit Cripps and doesn't hurt many of our slower more aerobic players.
I suspect Nthmond would be lobbying for this change as well, it would see the Nthmond game plan returned to full strength.
I presume the Dogs and Cheats would be vehemently opposed!
Just on this, I know the AFL have said no changes for 2022 but do not be surprised if further COVID interruptions are used by the AFL to justify some late changes to the rules.
I have word that Dad's Army is continually lobbying to get the Stand Rule changed, it's not the best thing for Selwood and some of his compatriots. The Handbaggers have significant influence in the Big House at the moment.
If that happens, then the changes really suit Cripps and doesn't hurt many of our slower more aerobic players.
I suspect Nthmond would be lobbying for this change as well, it would see the Nthmond game plan returned to full strength.
I presume the Dogs and Cheats would be vehemently opposed!
They've just introduced the stand rule into the AFLW, no chance they will scrap it a few weeks later for the mens game....not this year at least.
They've just introduced the stand rule into the AFLW, no chance they will scrap it a few weeks later for the mens game....not this year at least.
Personally, I think if a club builds an A-Grade list with good depth across all positions like the Demons have done, then the rules make no fecking difference!
Personally, I think if a club builds an A-Grade list with good depth across all positions like the Demons have done, then the rules make no fecking difference!
The dees only have a good list because they had no injuries.
3 years ago they were where we were last year.
When Cripps is on his game, and at his best, it really doesn't matter what his opponents are doing.
He's the problem that the opposition need to deal with.
Where it's become a problem for us is that in recent times Cripps hasn't been that influential...it's then that his opponents become an issue for us.
I think that's a key issue Lods; if Cripps is dominating, or even just winning his share of contests, who gives a fat rat's clacker about what his opponent is doing. If Cripps is hampered by injury, his opponent's possessions become more important.
To my mind, the real issue is not Cripps's ability to run with his opponent. It's how the coach organises the team to (a) maximise the benefits of Cripps's ability to win contested possessions and (b) to minimise the influence of Cripps's opponent. Surely, it's not too difficult to come up with a structure that enables Cripps to focus on winning the pill and defending one of the less demanding opponents. If Cripps's tagger is tagged by one of our elite runners, say O'Brien, that tagger is going to focus more on breaking his tag than sticking to the main man.
With Voss, Power, Clarke and O'Keefe on our coaching panel, and Diesel in the wings, coming up with a plan to get the best out of Cripps should be a piece of p1ss. It should also be within their ability to let Crippa know that he doesn't have win each game off his own boot and 3 or 4 mercurial efforts per game are more than enough.
It's a no brainer that Doc has relinquished the co-captaincy. He needs to focus on his own wellbeing and, as Voss mentioned, he will still be a leader regardless of his official capacity.
I would leave Cripps as captain with Weitering and Walsh as vice-captains.
@ DJC
Yes, agree with most of that. Just not sure about Cripps remaining as captain, although taking it away from him may create some problems.
I'd like to see the Weitering/Walsh combination.
Not as dual captains, but in the more traditional C/VC role.
I'm thinking that will probably happen, so the question is one of timing.
In some respects the new President/CEO/Coach changes should make this a good time, but....
We're looking at it from a distance.
That means we're probably not in the best position to understand the team dynamics, who the players see as the driving forces and which players they respect in terms of leadership.
How has the dual captaincy sat with Cripps?
Has he felt like it's a partial role and will he be better suited in the solo role.
Maybe it's best to leave it to the folks at the coalface, with access to a wide variety of player views to thrash this one out.
I'd like to see the Weitering/Walsh combination.
Not as dual captains, but in the more traditional C/VC role.
I'm thinking that will probably happen, so the question is one of timing.
In some respects the new President/CEO/Coach changes should make this a good time, but....
We're looking at it from a distance.
That means we're probably not in the best position to understand the team dynamics, who the players see as the driving forces and which players they respect in terms of leadership.
How has the dual captaincy sat with Cripps?
Has he felt like it's a partial role and will he be better suited in the solo role.
Maybe it's best to leave it to the folks at the coalface, with access to a wide variety of player views to thrash this one out.
A novel idea Lods ;)
Surely the club won't make any decision before scrutinising every post here ::)
re Cripps as captain....it was made quite clear that he was one of the players who did NOT stand with Teague.....meaning he was one who was sought an opinion on should Teague stay. Given Teague is no longer there, we know Cripps' answer.
So, he put himself above that of the team (at least part of the team 10+ names confirmed as pro-teague) which is not unlike how he plays on game day, me me me.
Take the captaincy of him, force him to focus more on team rather than him trying to carry the team (and failing) and choosing our direction without having a map.
The way i look at it, the only 'pro' to keeping Cripps as captain is because he is already captain. Thats not enough of a reason for mine.
re Cripps as captain....it was made quite clear that he was one of the players who did NOT stand with Teague.....meaning he was one who was sought an opinion on should Teague stay. Given Teague is no longer there, we know Cripps' answer.
So, he put himself above that of the team (at least part of the team 10+ names confirmed as pro-teague) which is not unlike how he plays on game day, me me me.
Take the captaincy of him, force him to focus more on team rather than him trying to carry the team (and failing) and choosing our direction without having a map.
The way i look at it, the only 'pro' to keeping Cripps as captain is because he is already captain. Thats not enough of a reason for mine.
Tend to agree, I favor Weitering as Captain and Walsh as VC. I think Cripps has to concentrate on his football more and get some runs on the board this season. He was struggling with fitness, couldnt kick over a jam jar and mentally out of it as well and has been that way for the last couple of seasons. I appreciate his partner has been unwell and that would have taken its toll so I think we need to help him by relieving him of the captains duties and making his role more simple.
With Cerra now in the team and Hewett I think he can back to "see ball get ball" footy and with extra kegs back on the frame he can be the beast he once was. If that doesnt transpire this season then I would give consideration to trading him back to WA while he still has decent market value.
Voss also has to come up with a game plan to help him out and maximize his impact, Voss being a gun mid himself should know exactly what is needed and be able to execute a game plan to suit...no excuses this season and I expect Cripps to be racking up the three votes.
re Cripps as captain....it was made quite clear that he was one of the players who did NOT stand with Teague.....meaning he was one who was sought an opinion on should Teague stay. Given Teague is no longer there, we know Cripps' answer.
So, he put himself above that of the team (at least part of the team 10+ names confirmed as pro-teague) which is not unlike how he plays on game day, me me me.
Take the captaincy of him, force him to focus more on team rather than him trying to carry the team (and failing) and choosing our direction without having a map.
The way i look at it, the only 'pro' to keeping Cripps as captain is because he is already captain. Thats not enough of a reason for mine.
There's a fair bit of speculation in all that Kruds.
Unless we were in the thick of that we have no idea of the divisions or player dynamics....or in fact Cripps's role.
He may have expressed some elements of concern to Sayers, who with an agenda of his own, has run with it.
Cripps, and perhaps Docherty may have been the trigger to the review but they didn't determine the outcome.
I have a feeling that amongst the players who expressed support for Teague after he was sacked, there may have been some who were critical during the review but didn't think (or want) it to end in his termination.
For some there may have been a "What have I done moment?" followed by a 'don't sack him sentiment.'
How was the team divided in their opinions?
Many of the younger and newer players would have been of an age that they were heavily influenced by older players?
What was Cripp's role and behaviour during the period of the review in terms of his direction and guidance to his team-mates?
We can't say he put himself 'above the others'...at best we can say he may have had a different view to some.
It's all a guess, but the bottom line is there are people in the club with a much better idea of the behaviour during that review and if someone has acted in a divisive manner, and that hasn't been settled, then a change may be warranted.
@Lods...
Speculation? Yes and No.
Silence is deafening at times.
We don't know the dynamics between players, nor who Cripps was influencing one way or another.
BUT, as captain, there are certain things you need to do and thats provide unity.
Its a tricky one, i'd much prefer a "The coach has got the full support of the board" type message from Cripps even if it is ultimately hollow. We didn't get that from him....we should've.
The media speculation (yes, speculation) was pretty clear on who was going into bat for the coach, and his name was nowhere to be found. Even once the names are posted, and you're not on it, you should make an effort to stick up for your coach and/or say something positive about him. Barely a peep.
All that being said, it goes back to what i said before. As far as i can tell, the only 'pro' to Cripps being captain is because he is already captain. Not good enough.
@Lods...
Speculation? Yes and No.
Silence is deafening at times.
Yes, I'm afraid sometimes it is about what wasn't said when the opportunity arose, and that silence was deafening!
The club kept everything pretty much in house.
Into that void folks will have inserted their own ideas about how things went down, and Cripps's involvement, and it will be pretty much framed on how you personally thought everything was handled, and whether or not you thought Teague got a fair go.
At the time there was a fair bit of speculation about damage to the club and 'our brand' that all the shenanigans were causing.
How are we looking 6 months down the track?
All the negative/disruptive/lack of unity stuff came from the media.
The club basically shut up shop after the review... and the decisions that came from that process were carried out.
Sure some folks were probably leaking info about what was going on.
Have a think about where some of that information may have come from.
Of course the real judgement will now be on who is captain and how we perform under that person and the new coaching structure.
@Lods...
Speculation? Yes and No.
Silence is deafening at times.
We don't know the dynamics between players, nor who Cripps was influencing one way or another.
BUT, as captain, there are certain things you need to do and thats provide unity.
Its a tricky one, i'd much prefer a "The coach has got the full support of the board" type message from Cripps even if it is ultimately hollow. We didn't get that from him....we should've.
The media speculation (yes, speculation) was pretty clear on who was going into bat for the coach, and his name was nowhere to be found. Even once the names are posted, and you're not on it, you should make an effort to stick up for your coach and/or say something positive about him. Barely a peep.
All that being said, it goes back to what i said before. As far as i can tell, the only 'pro' to Cripps being captain is because he is already captain. Not good enough.
Tricky.
You can have wanted change for the good of the group too.
If Teague was failed by cripps, Teague has some blame in that as I dont know of too many coaches who manage to offside their captain.
Doc's decision to focus on playing only is a very sensible one. With all the stresses his body and mind have been put through over the past years, simplifying his life is, IMHO, absolutely the right thing to do. Wishing him a complete recovery and 'strutting his stuff' out on the field when ready.
Tricky.
You can have wanted change for the good of the group too.
If Teague was failed by cripps, Teague has some blame in that as I dont know of too many coaches who manage to offside their captain.
2 initials, 2 people.
MM.
It happens, and all yoo frequently at our club.
The players have driven change (for the worse) at this club for far too long and it needs to change.
Hopefully Voss is the glue that can hold everyone together and get them going in the right direction....or perhaps that is cooks job.
At the time there was a fair bit of speculation about damage to the club and 'our brand' that all the shenanigans were causing.
How are we looking 6 months down the track?
There hasn't been any decisions made at the club to repair or further damage the brand, its just a holding pattern. Wait until the footy starts and we'll see if it's the same old carlton who will be chastised for making a sudden call or not.
That being said, the Liam Jones drama is a cross against the club. Partially for not getting him to wise up and partially for not addressing his replacement...starting from years ago.
Thankfully there has been enough change at the club, including doc stepping down, to warrant a bit of a reset of people's perspectives and expectations. The true test, will come years from now if we sack Voss and are looking for a new coach. Nobody will want to take control over such an unstable, impatient footy club.
2 initials, 2 people.
MM.
It happens, and all yoo frequently at our club.
The players have driven change (for the worse) at this club for far too long and it needs to change.
Hopefully Voss is the glue that can hold everyone together and get them going in the right direction....or perhaps that is cooks job.
Yes but, Teague and malthouse are two different people.
Cripps early work with Teague suggests that he was on board with him to start with.
Kruddler, I've looked through what happened with Teague and arrived at one simple conclusion. We were better off changing him now than we were persisting with him, and Cripps may also have known that for various reasons hence his silence.
We have a view of the iceberg that is solely above the water from outside the club. There are many elements below the water we don't see and we just don't know enough about really. We can try and know but we won't know either way really.
You might be right, you might not be. I couldn't tell you for sure. Teague was appointed for much the same reason. The tail wagged the dog.
Yes but, Teague and malthouse are two different people.
Cripps early work with Teague suggests that he was on board with him to start with.
Kruddler, I've looked through what happened with Teague and arrived at one simple conclusion. We were better off changing him now than we were persisting with him, and Cripps may also have known that for various reasons hence his silence.
We have a view of the iceberg that is solely above the water from outside the club. There are many elements below the water we don't see and we just don't know enough about really. We can try and know but we won't know either way really.
You might be right, you might not be. I couldn't tell you for sure. Teague was appointed for much the same reason. The tail wagged the dog.
I see it pretty much the same way Thry. Teague's appointment was populist and the easy way out. The club then failed to give him the resources and support that he desperately needed (although I think Teague foolishly maintained that he didn't need support). I wasn't happy with the way Teague's departure was mishandled but terminating his contract was really the only option if we're to be successful.
As for Cripps, he certainly wasn't silent when it came to Teague, and there were some unfortunate contributions about Cripps from the Teague camp. For example:
... Teague’s manager Liam Pickering criticised Carlton skipper Patrick Cripps, saying it had been “a long time” since Cripps delivered both in ball-getting and defensive efforts and that the Blues “need more out of their captain”.
“It has been long time since he actually has delivered in a consistent manner both ways in a game of football, where he gets the ball and he actually puts defensive pressure on [and] chases and tackles,” said Pickering on SEN.
“He is a good enough footballer to adapt to the modern game. He is an inside midfielder, but they ran off him.”
23 Aug 2021
Then there's Crippa's defence of Teague:
"I think it [the review] will involve everyone, us as leaders as well," Cripps said.
"I think we're all going to get feedback. When you're in places like this it's easy to point to one person, but footy clubs are a collective group. We're all taking responsibility for where we are at the moment.
"It's not just on 'Teaguey', it's on everyone. I want everyone to get feedback from this review and I think everyone will be open to knowing how we get better."
21 Jun 2021
And Teague's crack at Cripps when the latter was subbed out:
“I don’t know if he [Cripps] hurt it early or he was just choosing to handball,” Teague said following the defeat.
“But a little bit of that hurt us around the contest at times. That is something from a leadership point of view and a group point of view we have got to get better at.”
23 Aug 2021
And Crippa's response:
“They asked me to play,” Cripps told Fox Sports News, who finished with 17 handballs and no kicks during the defeat.
“I just tweaked my ankle early in the game. I always love playing footy and the body didn’t hold up in the last round.
“I’m just excited to get away in the off-season and freshen up and have a really big pre-season and together with Teague have a big year next year.”
AND
“Me and Teague just had our end of season interview,” Cripps said.
“We have a great working relationship. All year we communicated all the time. He’s a great bloke, we have great respect for each other.”
24 Aug 21
Crippa isn't mentioned among the players who allegedly called for Teague to be retained but, at least some reporters concede that they didn't know his private position regarding Teague. I suspect that Cripps knows enough about footy to realise that another season with Teague as coach would have meant another season in the doldrums. Giving that feedback to the review would, in my opinion, be entirely appropriate for the skipper and any senior player. Loyalty is an important attribute but loyalty to the club, the playing group and the supporters is more important than loyalty to an individual who was holding the club back.
Crippa isn't mentioned among the players who allegedly called for Teague to be retained but, at least some reporters concede that they didn't know his private position regarding Teague.
@DJC For all Cripps said there was a door stop interview that was the tell.
Cripps was asked a question that caught him off guard and he went silent, which was all he didn't need to say and pretty much ended the speculation. I suspect this might also be the moment
@kruddler has in mind
If I recall it was just a day or so before Pickering lost the plot, but I might have the dates wrong, if I find a copy I will post a link.
@DJC For all Cripps said there was a door stop interview that was the tell.
Cripps was asked a question that caught him off guard and he went silent, which was all he didn't need to say and pretty much ended the speculation. I suspect this might also be the moment @kruddler has in mind
If I recall if was just a day or so before Pickering lost the plot, but I might have the dates wrong, if I find a copy I will post a link.
I think that is the chain of events; Cripps didn't publicly support Teague when questioned but came out a couple of days later (24 Aug) to support Teague.
The link and context would be interesting.
I'm guessing that that the players would have been told to say nothing once the review started.
If we remember back one of the big criticisms was that the club was giving nothing away.
If Cripps was ambushed in a door stop the appropriate response in that case would have been to talk in general terms...if at all.
I wonder if the 'rear view mirror' on the TT / Crippa relationship isn't growing too big. I can't see what useful purpose is served by speculating on Crippa's relationship with The TT. To moi what is most important is how Crippa is training, how he is responding to leadership, being the lone skipper (at this stage) and his relationship with Vossy/team mates and coaches / club in general. A massive opportunity is in front of him to grow as a leader; to grow as a person; to grow as a player. I prefer to believe he will rise to the challenge and leave the past where it belongs (and learn from it, but not dwell/reflect on it too much).
I wonder if the 'rear view mirror' on the TT / Crippa relationship isn't growing too big. I can't see what useful purpose is served by speculating on Crippa's relationship with The TT. To moi what is most important is how Crippa is training, how he is responding to leadership, being the lone skipper (at this stage) and his relationship with Vossy/team mates and coaches / club in general. A massive opportunity is in front of him to grow as a leader; to grow as a person; to grow as a player. I prefer to believe he will rise to the challenge and leave the past where it belongs (and learn from it, but not dwell/reflect on it too much).
Personally, my issues with Cripps as captain extend far further than his relationship (or lack of) with Teague.
IMO, that is simply another reason its best we go in a new direction with our captaincy.
Personally, my issues with Cripps as captain extend far further than his relationship (or lack of) with Teague.
IMO, that is simply another reason its best we go in a new direction with our captaincy.
Just to recap...apart from anything around the review and Teague, where are the concerns...inconsistent performance, lack of defensive effort?
Just to recap...apart from anything around the review and Teague, where are the concerns...inconsistent performance, lack of defensive effort?
All of the above has been visible at stages.
It's a bit of a tell when our new recruit is giving some of the big names and old heads a rocket on the field, not mentioning any names!
Can a leader ever be perceived to be less than 100% committed, and still lead?
Of course, as fans we do not know the fitness/injury status, but the coaches, team-mates and managers do! ;)
Just to recap...apart from anything around the review and Teague, where are the concerns...inconsistent performance, lack of defensive effort?
Short version, look at Kreuzer at the same age. Look at where he ended up.
Great bloke, gave his all, body failed him and modern game meant he could only play one position and ultimately never lived up to the potential he had.
Cripps is similar to that.....with the added issues of playing a bit more selfish and hurting the team more from a lack of defending....and trying to do too much and turning it over.
Further to that, Cripps' value is almost as high as its been now. Trade him and get maximum value. Its all downhill from here, through no fault of his own. The game is changing against him. The 6-6-6 rule means we cannot cover for players who do not defend, or chase.
If Cripps actually plays injured, he is a liability to the side. Not only does he not defend and chase.....but his offensive output suffers to the point where its worth him being out there.
His kicking is very average and if he could fix that, there'd be a spot up forward for him to rest/recover/hide.....but that doesn't help.
He's got one string to his bow....and the bow is becoming old, broken and is being superseded.
Let's perhaps keep our powder dry re Crippa and see how he does this season? Fresh slate an' all. As Principal LODS said, there may in fact be plenty below the visible iceberg we're just unaware of.
Let's perhaps keep our powder dry re Crippa and see how he does this season? Fresh slate an' all. As Principal LODS said, there may in fact be plenty below the visible iceberg we're just unaware of.
Yes, I concede that the changes have bought him some time, the debate is mostly over a matter of confidence!
The door is ajar, we can only see a hint of what lays behind, but this season it is flung wide open!
Let's perhaps keep our powder dry re Crippa and see how he does this season? Fresh slate an' all. As Principal LODS said, there may in fact be plenty below the visible iceberg we're just unaware of.
I'm not going to be cheering him any less than the other blokes out there.
But realistically, if you take emotion out of the game, what i'm saying makes sense. Its a business decision that is all about making our club better.
I'm not going to be cheering him any less than the other blokes out there.
But realistically, if you take emotion out of the game, what i'm saying makes sense. Its a business decision that is all about making our club better.
Agree. And FWIW, not for a second would I doubt your passion for our club and player support. Never. I also agree, that with emotion removed, we supporters have been pretty battered over the past two decades... as has the club. We've much ground to recover.
Geez, I think a few are jumping off the bandwagon a little early.....
In the darkest of times, Crippa was our one shining light, and I think we owe him. He set a very high bar in 2017-19, and true, his last couple of years have not been as outstanding, but he is still easily in our best 22.
With an improved midfield group around him this year (and hopefully a more cohesive game plan) he could well be back to the Crippa of old.
One final point - if moving Crippa on is about making a smart business, decision, then I wouldn't trust the Carlton brains trust to make the right call!
Geez, I think a few are jumping off the bandwagon a little early.....
In the darkest of times, Crippa was our one shining light, and I think we owe him.
In reality, we don't owe him anything.
Did we owe Marc Murphy to get him to 300 at the expense of playing others, and potentially wins.
Did we owe Kreuzer....simpson....etc etc
There is always someone we will 'owe'. These players get paid, well, and if there time is up, its up. We don't owe them anymore than that.
What the club does owe....is the fans! We are owed some success much more than any individual player.
One final point - if moving Crippa on is about making a smart business, decision, then I wouldn't trust the Carlton brains trust to make the right call!
I don't trust the club to make the right call either. IMO, they are thinking the same way as you, that we 'owe' the players.
No, the club owes the fans some success.
No one player is above the club.
No one player is owed anything more than the fans.
The club owes the fans some hard calls, and stop taking the easy options.
I can see the arguments for trading a player of Cripps's stature.
To get something worthwhile you have to give something worthwhile.
There has always been that 'return to WA' vibe.
but...
It hasn't happened this year.
If he returns to something appoaching his best we'll do everything we can to hang on to him.
If he has another poor season that trade value will disintegrate.
I reckon one of the things about 'celebrated' mid-fields is that it takes a variety of different players contributing in different ways.
As that combination develops Cripps might not always be the key element but he may fill a role that no one else on our list can provide to the same effectiveness.
He doesn't necessarily have to be the Captain role but he probably will still be a 'leader' for some of the group.
Are we seriously talking about cripps like he's marc Murphy?
Are we seriously talking about cripps like he's marc Murphy?
At 24yo Marc Murphy was named AFLCA MVP, was in the AA team, beat out Judd for the CFC B+F and was regarded as one of the best players in the league.
At 24yo Cripps was named AFLPA MVP, was in the AA team (2nd time), won his 3rd B+F and was regarded as one of the best players in the league.
For the final 9 years of his career, Marc Murphy won 1 B+F. No more AA's or other awards.
For the last 2 years of his career so far, Cripps has won.....nothing.
Murphy peaked, played some good enough footy, but was never the same standard after 24.
Cripps has peaked, played some very average footy since and may not reach the same standard as he had previously.
So yeah, same same? Prove me wrong.
At 24yo Marc Murphy was named AFLCA MVP, was in the AA team, beat out Judd for the CFC B+F and was regarded as one of the best players in the league.
At 24yo Cripps was named AFLPA MVP, was in the AA team (2nd time), won his 3rd B+F and was regarded as one of the best players in the league.
For the final 9 years of his career, Marc Murphy won 1 B+F. No more AA's or other awards.
For the last 2 years of his career so far, Cripps has won.....nothing.
Murphy peaked, played some good enough footy, but was never the same standard after 24.
Cripps has peaked, played some very average footy since and may not reach the same standard as he had previously.
So yeah, same same? Prove me wrong.
I think you'll find Murphy's best years coincided with the time he was playing in the midfield alongside Judd, Gibbs, Mitch Robinson, Carrazzo, just to name a few. In those days, he rarely got tagged, and there was a bit of muscle around him.
As soon as those guys retired or departed, he became a target and his game was never as potent again.
Cripps has spent most of the last 5 seasons with at least one, sometime 2 or 3 hanging off him for most of the game.
I honestly don't think Cripps and Murphy should be compared - totally different types of players.
If Cripps can get even some of the clean air that Smurf enjoyed while the taggers were chasing Judd, I think you might find his form will be heading northwards.
I think you'll find Murphy's best years coincided with the time he was playing in the midfield alongside Judd, Gibbs, Mitch Robinson, Carrazzo, just to name a few. In those days, he rarely got tagged, and there was a bit of muscle around him.
As soon as those guys retired or departed, he became a target and his game was never as potent again.
Cripps has spent most of the last 5 seasons with at least one, sometime 2 or 3 hanging off him for most of the game.
I honestly don't think Cripps and Murphy should be compared - totally different types of players.
If Cripps can get even some of the clean air that Smurf enjoyed while the taggers were chasing Judd, I think you might find his form will be heading northwards.
Obviously there are differences and I'm not into arguing the minutia of it.
Point remains at the height of their game at the same time, injuries and form hindered prior from there.
Is not unreasonable to think the best may be behind cripps. I'm just trying to stay ahead of the curve. Sell high! Don't wait until his sticks are worthless
Point remains at the height of their game at the same time, injuries and form hindered prior from there.
sMurph was struck down in his prime, 1st by injury then extended pain under Mick Malthouse.
I think Cripps is young enough to live through that and recover, his biggest problem is going to be the rule changes as I think his game style is almost the worst type for being negatively impacted by the recent rule changes as they were as as they will be!
Close followers of players like Cripps and Fyfe could be forgiven for thinking the recent rule revisions are designed to end their career!
sMurph was struck down in his prime, 1st by injury then extended pain under Mick Malthouse.
I think Cripps is young enough to live through that and recover, his biggest problem is going to be the rule changes as I think his game style is almost the worst type for being negatively impacted by the recent rule changes as they were as as they will be!
Close followers of players like Cripps and Fyfe could be forgiven for thinking the recent rule revisions are designed to end their career!
Cripps has copped more injuries than Murph at the same age. He is bigger and more robust, which make actually work against him in the long term as carrying that weight around shortens your career. All the bloke who play 300-350-400+ are stick figures.
Cripps is 27 next month.
If we try and trade him at the end of the year, he will be 28 for his new team. Any older than that and you'll find most teams won't bother and/or won't give us an offer thats worth it.
We need to cash in before he gets 'too old'
We need to cash in before he gets 'too old'
I agree if that is our intent, but I'm also happy for him to stay as well.
I suppose I'm happy to wait and see what Cripps can do under Voss.
Best player should not be captain but best leader in dressing room and that's Cripps
You need the right player to stop cripps. They often waste two players on him.
They need to be big and fast. They can't just be fast as he can only be exposed defensively.
Cripps captain.
Weitering, Walsh are co vice captains.
(https://i.imgur.com/2DPDywr.gif)
Now that’s a leadership group!
Interesting to see Cripps talking about the leadership ability across the playing group. That’s leadership!
Cripps captain.
Weitering, Walsh are co vice captains.
Good to see the two Ws as VCs.
Jury still out on Crippa as captain imho, we'll see how he goes I guess.
Good to see the two Ws as VCs.
Jury still out on Crippa as captain imho, we'll see how he goes I guess.
Totally agree on all points
@cookie2 ... Two VERY strong VCs
Good to see the two Ws as VCs.
Jury still out on Crippa as captain imho, we'll see how he goes I guess.
It's interesting to listen to Vossy's comments about Crippa (and Doc for that matter). If one of the most decorated captains in the modern era rates Crippa, I'm more than happy to go along for the ride :)
It's interesting to listen to Vossy's comments about Crippa (and Doc for that matter). If one of the most decorated captains in the modern era rates Crippa, I'm more than happy to go along for the ride :)
The jury's out too on Vossy as a coach afaic. Happy to wait to see how we go and hope the ride turns out to be an enjoyable one, but not counting any chooks at this stage.
The jury's out too on Vossy as a coach afaic. Happy to wait to see how we go and hope the ride turns out to be an enjoyable one, but not counting any chooks at this stage.
I'm two chooks down Cookie - they just fell off the perch :(
I hope it's not an omen ::)
I'm two chooks down Cookie - they just fell off the perch :(
I hope it's not an omen ::)
So do I!