AAMI Community Series team
Backs: Lewis Young Oscar McDonald Zac Williams
Half-backs: Nic Newman Mitch McGovern Adam Saad
Centreline: Will Setterfield Patrick Cripps Lochie O'Brien
Half-forwards: Matthew Owies Jack Silvagni Zac Fisher
Forwards: Corey Durdin Harry McKay Tom De Koning
Followers: Marc Pittonet George Hewett Adam Cerra
Interchange: Jordan Boyd Matthew Cottrell Ed Curnow Matthew Kennedy Jack Martin Luke Parks Lachie Plowman
Tom Williamson
No Paddy Dow again! The coach sees something he doesn't like?!?!
No Paddy Dow again! The coach sees something he doesn't like?!?!
Perhaps Dow's already pencilled in for Round 1 :-\
A few fringe players made it to the interchange bench but Fogarty's cameo wasn't enough to get him a game.
Lewis Young gets a chance to press for selection in Round 1. At this stage he's third banana behind Weitering and McDonald.
re Dow...
Vossy said in an interview, specifically about him, that there is only so many people you can play in the team at once....and only so many positions a player can play.
Dow is clearly a mid.
We have plenty of other mids who need time in the middle - Cerra, Hewitt, Cripps as starters (with Walsh out) and with Kennedy, Ed (who didn't play last week) and a few others basically fighting for the same spot.
I think Dow needs another string to his bow, so we can rest him forward (or back) when he isn't used in the middle.
re Dow...
Vossy said in an interview, specifically about him, that there is only so many people you can play in the team at once....and only so many positions a player can play.
Dow is clearly a mid.
We have plenty of other mids who need time in the middle - Cerra, Hewitt, Cripps as starters (with Walsh out) and with Kennedy, Ed (who didn't play last week) and a few others basically fighting for the same spot.
I think Dow needs another string to his bow, so we can rest him forward (or back) when he isn't used in the middle.
We do need some outside run and none of those above give us breakaway pace. For that reason I think it’s a mistake not investing more time in Dow.
Given Young has experience as a ruckman, he might be able to pull double-duty as the tall defender taking boundary throw-ins inside D50. Some teams will have their power forward taking those stoppages and throwing a non-rucking KPD into those contests is risky. Giving away frees in that part of the ground is disastrous and you don't want to allow guys like Hawkins to rip the ball out of the air and have a ping at goal. That'll allow Pittonet & TDK to limit their area of operations.
Given Young has experience as a ruckman, he might be able to pull double-duty as the tall defender taking boundary throw-ins inside D50.
Maybe, not sure that is fair for Young when he is in as a Weiter's substitute, although in the absence of English I believe he did that very role for the Dogs at stages last season!
Personally, I'd be more inclined to let Pitto camp on the defensive side after the bounce, and let Young and De Koning get on their bike pushing forward both kids have reasonable wheels and should be capable of matching Gawn on the run.
PS; I've heard Gawn might be a late out or on reduced game time.
Does anyone know if the VFL game will be televised anywhere, think it is on before the AFL game? Would love to see Doc's take the field.
Young has mainly been a tall defender and was thrown into the ruck last year as English was needed to replace Josh Bruce up forward and Stefan Martin was injured. The consensus seems to be that he was monstered by the big ruckmen and when Martin came back from injury he lost his spot to him in the PF & GF. That resulted in his request for a trade at the start of Trade Week. I'd imagine he's hoping to carve out a spot in defence rather than as a 2nd string ruck with us. But his experience in the ruck and his height give him a point of difference that might help him do this.
Does anyone know if the VFL game will be televised anywhere, think it is on before the AFL game? Would love to see Doc's take the field.
It isn't on Fox Footy, I can tell you that. Unless Kayo is doing it, you'd have to scour the internet to see if there's any app for VFL matches, but it's unlikely there'll be any coverage of VFL practice matches.
Can anyone confirm who sits on the current MC?
Does anyone know if the VFL game will be televised anywhere, think it is on before the AFL game? Would love to see Doc's take the field.
https://twitter.com/CarltonReserves
About all there is...
https://twitter.com/CarltonReserves
About all there is...
Thanks for that. Just checked it and they're saying Doc had 16 disposals in the first Qtr.
Can anyone confirm who sits on the current MC?
I’m still trying to find out who was on last season’s MC 🤔
I’m hoping that few, if any, of last year’s lot kept their gigs.
Does anyone know if the VFL game will be televised anywhere, think it is on before the AFL game? Would love to see Doc's take the field.
According to the Twitter feed:
... today's game will not be live-streamed. But full highlights will be available on the Carlton website post-match.
I gather things are not going well given the Carlton Twitter feed has slowed to a crawl!
Oops; Spoke too soon, but assumption was correct, 9 - 54 in a 1/2 of footy! :o
Those of us old enough to have lived through the golden era won't be worried, back then we would get smashed in pre-season games, then when the real stuff started we were the mustard!
Has Casey taken its foot off the pedal?
45 - 74 in the last ...
Doc had 38 disposals!
We do need some outside run and none of those above give us breakaway pace. For that reason I think it’s a mistake not investing more time in Dow.
That's where the likes of O'Brien, Fisher, Martin coming off the wings with saad and Williams coming g off half back help. They're all your outside types. The players Iisted were more grunt types in the middle who get a gig ahead of Dow.
We do need some outside run and none of those above give us breakaway pace. For that reason I think it’s a mistake not investing more time in Dow.
Leigh Montagna & Nick Riewoldt have separately talked about what they see as the prime mission of Voss in the preseason: fixing the inability to defend. In the Season Preview on Fox Footy, Riewoldt summed it up by saying "Carlton is a team that refused to defend". He said the behind-the-goals vision was horrible (including from Cripps) and noted Teague repeatedly stated at every press conference that this wasn't the way they wanted to defend and yet the players refused to buy in. He argued that Aaron Hamill, who was in charge of team defence at St Kilda, has presumably brought that system across and Voss will be the driver of culture & standards. Accordingly, the extent to which the players buy in will determine Carlton's year rather than the talent which isn't the problem. Montagna on SEN reviewing the last practice match said he noted that the man-on-man defence has been replaced by a system which offers more protection.
Obviously, Riewoldt & Montagna are just 2 ex-players and they just have their own opinions. But if Voss did come in with a plan to impose a defensive system the players would accept, where would Dow fit into it? It wouldn't be surprising if he turns to guys like Hewitt, Cerra, Kennedy & Ed Curnow to build that sort of system, particularly when the most hard-working mid in Walsh is unavailable. Having a guy with pace like Dow is more like the cherry on top when that system is bedded down.
Dow also lacks a bit of confidence, so allowing him to find some form in the VFL isn't such a bad idea.
I've heard that Doc had 39 disposals, I believe Ed had a similar bounty the week before, that is how AFL players are supposed to play when they go down to VFL, I hope some of our younger blokes took notice.
This is probably why those two guys stand apart from many on our list, for too long we've had too many players who happily get their 18 in the AFL and are happy to get their 18 in the VFL.
If you want to be an AFL mid or HBF, then 35 in the VFL must be about break even!
It's also possible that Riewoldt & Montagna are pumping up the tyres of an old mate in Aaron Hamill (fellow player and assistant coach during their time) when they dwell on Carlton's defensive woes during last season.
It's also possible that Riewoldt & Montagna are pumping up the tyres of an old mate in Aaron Hamill (fellow player and assistant coach during their time) when they dwell on Carlton's defensive woes during last season.
Yes, quite possibly, I think the assertion they make harks back to the King analysis bagging some of Teague's tactics.
I think we've already shown that to be shizen because King contradicts his own earlier comments bagging the tactics that bring low AFL scores, then he basically bagged the absence of those same tactics in Teague's game plan, that I'm afraid is a weathervane type analysis! Nobody should be rewarded for chaotic flipping.
Leigh Montagna & Nick Riewoldt have separately talked about what they see as the prime mission of Voss in the preseason: fixing the inability to defend. In the Season Preview on Fox Footy, Riewoldt summed it up by saying "Carlton is a team that refused to defend". He said the behind-the-goals vision was horrible (including from Cripps) and noted Teague repeatedly stated at every press conference that this wasn't the way they wanted to defend and yet the players refused to buy in. He argued that Aaron Hamill, who was in charge of team defence at St Kilda, has presumably brought that system across and Voss will be the driver of culture & standards. Accordingly, the extent to which the players buy in will determine Carlton's year rather than the talent which isn't the problem. Montagna on SEN reviewing the last practice match said he noted that the man-on-man defence has been replaced by a system which offers more protection.
Obviously, Riewoldt & Montagna are just 2 ex-players and they just have their own opinions. But if Voss did come in with a plan to impose a defensive system the players would accept, where would Dow fit into it? It wouldn't be surprising if he turns to guys like Hewitt, Cerra, Kennedy & Ed Curnow to build that sort of system, particularly when the most hard-working mid in Walsh is unavailable. Having a guy with pace like Dow is more like the cherry on top when that system is bedded down.
Dow also lacks a bit of confidence, so allowing him to find some form in the VFL isn't such a bad idea.
They have been showing behind the goals footage every week on Fox during Teague's tenure. It has been abhorrent, week in week out as bad as I have seen from any Carlton side. If Vossy and co. can turn this around, it will go a long to improving our fortunes.
They have been showing behind the goals footage every week on Fox during Teague's tenure. It has been abhorrent, week in week out as bad as I have seen from any Carlton side. If Vossy and co. can turn this around, it will go a long to improving our fortunes.
It was no win for Teague, the media types and many fans spent a decade complaining about Carlton's low scoring "bad to watch", "boring to commentate" football, they wanted us kicked off Friday nights, then any nights, then off the box altogether, while they praised the Dogs.
Teague was basically given a mandate courtesy of his 1/2-season success to try and fix it, so he needed to teach a team that couldn't kick a 100 pts in decade how to actually score, so when he started that they(King, et. al..) hung him out to dry almost instantly for not having a defensive mindset. Fans seem to have ignored the previous decade of media complaints and jumped straight into the new suit of clothes.
Nobody including Teague said it was forever tactic, but impatience kills. He basically copied the Dogs game style, but Teague didn't have the squad that had the mentality to deal with turnovers, they couldn't hit a barn with a blunderbuss, and when they missed the barn they wouldn't chase, finally it seems some took offense at being asked to do so. So what happened, they did it for a 1/4 here or a 1/2 there, and got flogged when they couldn't get their hands on the pill.
If you listen to those media types too much you'll go berserk and do your head in, because they flip like frogs on a hotplate and are dead set flogs. They'll tell you black is sh1te today, and if you turn white they tell you white is a turd tomorrow!
They have been showing behind the goals footage every week on Fox during Teague's tenure. It has been abhorrent, week in week out as bad as I have seen from any Carlton side. If Vossy and co. can turn this around, it will go a long to improving our fortunes.
Then you'd know that one of the biggest issues from that is always Cripps. He is unable or unwilling to chase his opponent (or any opponent) into D50.
I copped a lot of flack for suggesting shipping him off could solve a lot of our problems, but one that was very much glossed over by his defenders was the strain it puts on our defenders. Sure, he is not alone, but he is very much a recidivist.
I'd be most interesting in how he can get our captain to defend.....or cover for his inability to defend.
Leigh Montagna & Nick Riewoldt have separately talked about what they see as the prime mission of Voss in the preseason: fixing the inability to defend. In the Season Preview on Fox Footy, Riewoldt summed it up by saying "Carlton is a team that refused to defend". He said the behind-the-goals vision was horrible (including from Cripps) and noted Teague repeatedly stated at every press conference that this wasn't the way they wanted to defend and yet the players refused to buy in. He argued that Aaron Hamill, who was in charge of team defence at St Kilda, has presumably brought that system across and Voss will be the driver of culture & standards. Accordingly, the extent to which the players buy in will determine Carlton's year rather than the talent which isn't the problem. Montagna on SEN reviewing the last practice match said he noted that the man-on-man defence has been replaced by a system which offers more protection.
Obviously, Riewoldt & Montagna are just 2 ex-players and they just have their own opinions. But if Voss did come in with a plan to impose a defensive system the players would accept, where would Dow fit into it? It wouldn't be surprising if he turns to guys like Hewitt, Cerra, Kennedy & Ed Curnow to build that sort of system, particularly when the most hard-working mid in Walsh is unavailable. Having a guy with pace like Dow is more like the cherry on top when that system is bedded down.
Dow also lacks a bit of confidence, so allowing him to find some form in the VFL isn't such a bad idea.
Carlton buying in anywhere has been an issue for a long time. The novelty of a new coach has seen the side do pretty well in their first year then it was all backwards from there. Teague was unlucky his first season was just half a season with a 6-5 record. Might have nailed a first year final, or got close if he got the 22 games. Like the other coaches it went backwards after that as player work rate dropped off.
We do need some outside run and none of those above give us breakaway pace. For that reason I think it’s a mistake not investing more time in Dow.
I know that he tries to do so but I don't think that Dow offers much in the 'outside-run' department; he is caught with the ball or forced to dispose of it under pressure far too often. He lacks the real speed and acceleration that others have.
I know that he tries to do so but I don't think that Dow offers much in the 'outside-run' department; he is caught with the ball or forced to dispose of it under pressure far too often. He lacks the real speed and acceleration that others have.
In addition, when we drafted him it was made known that his disposal at best was average. In his time with us he has struggled to reach that low bar.
Unless someone is "in the know" that his kicking has improved dramatically over the break, we are in for more of the same - just not good enough for a team that wants to make the four.
Unless someone is "in the know" that his kicking has improved dramatically over the break, we are in for more of the same - just not good enough for a team that wants to make the four.
Is that your pass mark for this year…?
🤦🏼♂️🤦🏼♂️🤦🏼♂️
Can't afford to make mistakes against this mob, Gov. Hope he learns from it.
Plenty to like 👍🏼
Plenty to like 👍🏼
Absolutely.
Plenty to like 👍🏼
It's only a practice match but, yes, we're playing with a lot more intensity than we have for a while. The new blokes have made a difference and McGovern may have found his niche.
It's only a practice match but, yes, we're playing with a lot more intensity than we have for a while. The new blokes have made a difference and McGovern may have found his niche.
The commentators said he was building confidence, he’d need to after that early kick in ! 🤣
Martin’s been quiet, O’Briens been patchy, Saad looks proppy but everyone has been cracking in.
In a game where the umps are red hot on chat and abuse, we have been exceptionally disciplined. A very good sign.
Given that we're going with Parks and Williamson as our key forwards, I reckon we had the best of the third quarter ... and it's our defensive efforts and good ball use (both quick and measured) that's making the difference.
And then there's one Patrick Cripps revelling in having some serious midfield depth around him.
Not a bad result, particularly in the way that we fought it out.
I think that it's worth acknowledging Lochie O'Brien's performance. He wasn't our best player but I don't think he made one mistake on the night.
Hewett will be the steal of the year.. ..
Liked what I saw:
- definite increase hardness and contested footy.
- George and Cezz are great additions.
- Good to see a coaching group with half a clue.
- All without Weiters, Walshy, Prince Charles Doc, H and SOS for a half. Happy with that v the reigning Premiers.
- Skipper back to his best, to be expected without a broken back!
- Bam Bam to never go out of that side again.
- LOB showed a heap also.
- Durds is a beauty
- TDK will either take Mark of the Year or snap in half trying.
On the right track, Keep up the good work fellas.
I thought O’Brien contributed a fair bit, good and bad, but he kept cracking in.
So at 1/2 time we switched out Durdin, Harry, Gov, SOS, Ed (?).
A forward line with Williamson, Parkes and Plowman was a bit different.
They fought it out for a win, well done.
Pass me the cool aide…
Durdin was taken out of the game after a possible calf injury. Maybe it was just precautionary given it was just a praccie. If not, he'll be cursing his luck as it looked like he was making a move on senior selection.
TDK's leap is to die for. He doesn't seem to need a big run up to launch and that'll make him difficult to defend.
Hewett will be the steal of the year.. ..
He was outstanding. Exactly the play Cripps and Walsh needed.
Durdin was taken out of the game after a possible calf injury. Maybe it was just precautionary given it was just a praccie. If not, he'll be cursing his luck as it looked like he was making a move on senior selection.
TDK's leap is to die for. He doesn't seem to need a big run up to launch and that'll make him difficult to defend.
The other one with an excellent vertical leap is Young. Seems to be able get very high up from a standing leap. Did ok.
McGovern reminded me of his brother. Can you imagine if he can play to that level came the real thing.
Mid recruits looked good and amazing what having support does to blokes like Cripps and Kennedy.
On the negative side Setterfield and Williamson seems to have the same flaws under Voss.
Setters refuses to attack any contest and uselessly guards space when a ball in dispute or just won by the opposition. Just don’t see enough from him not even in spurts to think this guy will make it. Be very surprised if he is still on the list come end of year.
Willo is a dear in the headlights and way too many ahead of him. Will only get a look in if we are savaged by injuries.
McGovern reminded me of his brother. Can you imagine if he can play to that level came the real thing.
Mid recruits looked good and amazing what having support does to blokes like Cripps and Kennedy.
On the negative side Setterfield and Williamson seems to have the same flaws under Voss.
Setters refuses to attack any contest and uselessly guards space when a ball in dispute or just won by the opposition. Just don’t see enough from him not even in spurts to think this guy will make it. Be very surprised if he is still on the list come end of year.
Willo is a dear in the headlights and way too many ahead of him. Will only get a look in if we are savaged by injuries.
Willo played the second half as a key forward. I think that you would have to excuse any errors on his part because of his unfamiliarity with the role. Of course, he was involved in several chains of possessions that resulted in scores. He's a lock for Round 1 - unless Doc takes his spot!
Setters was good tonight and played his role very well. His decision-making in attacking the pill or rolling back into our team defence was very good. Setter's size and his ability to win marking contests was another positive. He's another lock for Round 1.
Setters refuses to attack any contest and uselessly guards space when a ball in dispute or just won by the opposition. Just don’t see enough from him not even in spurts to think this guy will make it. Be very surprised if he is still on the list come end of year.
Definitely a make or break year - his consistent reluctance to aggressively close down his opponents was all the more obvious when the vast majority of his teammates were doing so, which was a most pleasant surprise.
I thought O’Brien contributed a fair bit, good and bad, but he kept cracking in.
It was only a low bar but I think it might have been the best game I have seen from him; committed his body to the contest more than I have ever seen before.
Willo played the second half as a key forward. I think that you would have to excuse any errors on his part because of his unfamiliarity with the role. Of course, he was involved in several chains of possessions that resulted in scores. He's a lock for Round 1.
He's a lock to be helping Paddy Dow and Matty Cottrell in the twos. Has no composure when he gets the ball.
He's a lock to be helping Paddy Dow and Matty Cottrell in the twos. Has no composure when he gets the ball.
Its a shame, he has a huge tank and when his confidence is up has a nice left foot that can penetrate. Had high hopes for him, I now feel along with Setters is just depth.
I doubt anyone has any doubt about the differences Voss is making when you watch how we move the ball and our decision making, the panic has gone, it's just not there anymore and there are blokes selling candy all over the field which puts the kibosh on robotic opponents.
Let's hope it persists into the main season, and it will be interesting to see how this goes against Nthmond.
People can claim Melbourne looked flat, but the emotion on the faces of Oliver and Petracca, as well as the bemusement on the face of Gawn cannot be hidden!
Kennedy....the overnight success that's taken its time.
There was a game last year when he was the medical sub and came on with a lot of energy.
It was one of the first times I noticed that he looked confident and ready to impose himself.
I'll have to recheck it but I think while I was doing a scan of the B&F last year and noticed that Kennedy scored better than any player except Walsh and Weitering after the bye.
So maybe not that surprising. ;)
Ruck is still a potential problem for us.
Pitto gives away height and leap, and De Koning is not super strong body on body, but the two have other strings to their bow as long as they can make it work each week. Was very impressed with Pitto's ground work, SpecialK is having an influence.
Neither are super tap rucks, so we can ignore that, Gawn was probably best for Melbourne but we still thrashed them in the midfield which is why centre bounce ruck taps are so over-rated, in the centre it's all about the 2nd effort and they beat Gawn at his own game, he looked stunned which is a huge tell. That is confidence sapping, especially if they can do it again to him during the season!
PS; For those who scoffed back at the time, I'm pretty comfortable with my De Koning / Peter Moore analogy!
Kennedy....the overnight success that's taken its time.
There was a game last year when he was the medical sub and came on with a lot of energy.
It was one of the first times I noticed that he looked confident and ready to impose himself.
I'll have to recheck it but I think while I was doing a scan of the B&F last year and noticed that Kennedy scored better than any player except Walsh and Weitering after the bye.
So maybe not that surprising. ;)
I know everyone wants to laud a coach, or someone for making a difference, but in Kennedy's case, maturity seems to be the major point of difference.
He was faffing about a bit early on, and then when his career hit a almost over point, it seems to have been the wake up call he needed to get going, and instead of being the main event, turned him into accepting that he might just be a role player after all and that there is nothing wrong with that.
He was outstanding. Exactly the play Cripps and Walsh needed.
The word is that the coaching/recruiting team new that he was a good player but cant believe jut how good he is.
I know everyone wants to laud a coach, or someone for making a difference, but in Kennedy's case, maturity seems to be the major point of difference.
He was faffing about a bit early on, and then when his career hit a almost over point, it seems to have been the wake up call he needed to get going, and instead of being the main event, turned him into accepting that he might just be a role player after all and that there is nothing wrong with that.
Kennedy attributes his vast improvement to L. Power and T. Clarke.
It was only a low bar but I think it might have been the best game I have seen from him; committed his body to the contest more than I have ever seen before.
Noticed exactly the same thing... put his body in. And he looked like he belonged out there... a first and enormously encouraging as he does have plenty of up side. Now to continue the improvement.
He's a lock to be helping Paddy Dow and Matty Cottrell in the twos. Has no composure when he gets the ball.
Did you not see how he quickly moved the ball on for a goal after marking on the lead?
I think Willo is right up there with O’Brien and Plowman when it comes to whipping boys.
The new dynamic in the midfield was the most exciting thing for me. I reckon they should be looking at getting Dow into the mix - he was never going to make it as an in and under mid, but with Hewitt/Cerra/Cripps/Kennedy hopefully doing much of that heavy lifting, the outside run someone like Dow (to complement Walsh) may become far more useful.
Loved McGovern's game, but I don't think he'll get too many weeks where he gets to play on his own.
We still need more composure in the back half - still a few 'deer in headlights' moments.
Its a shame, he has a huge tank and when his confidence is up has a nice left foot that can penetrate. Had high hopes for him, I now feel along with Setters is just depth.
I thought he'd be depth when we got him at pick 61. Done better than his pick suggested but, yes, likely to be depth if we get most of the full compliment of players.
Did you not see how he quickly moved the ball on for a goal after marking on the lead?
I think Willo is right up there with O’Brien and Plowman when it comes to whipping boys.
Yes. Impressive (Willo hand-off).
And perhaps it's time to wipe the whipping boy slate clean and have an open mind to our blokes in 2022.
Yes. Impressive (Willo hand-off).
And perhaps it's time to wipe the whipping boy slate clean and have an open mind to our blokes in 2022.
My whipping boy is no longer with us, just watch him become a super star now!
Willo played the second half as a key forward. I think that you would have to excuse any errors on his part because of his unfamiliarity with the role. Of course, he was involved in several chains of possessions that resulted in scores. He's a lock for Round 1 - unless Doc takes his spot!
Setters was good tonight and played his role very well. His decision-making in attacking the pill or rolling back into our team defence was very good. Setter's size and his ability to win marking contests was another positive. He's another lock for Round 1.
Can’t agree.
They are both locks only if we want to finish bottom 6 imo.
I’m not a fan of LOB either but at least he has qualities and at times you can see why he was picked early in the draft.
Willo is erratic has no composure whatever and disposal is miss more than hit.
Setterfield has no urgency and simply doesn’t do enough to warrant a spot in any team that is serious about playing finals.
My whipping boy is no longer with us, just watch him become a super star now!
Well, he's sure to get a game, seeing as they only have 24 fit players.....
Can’t agree.
They are both locks only if we want to finish bottom 6 imo.
I’m not a fan of LOB either but at least he has qualities and at times you can see why he was picked early in the draft.
Willo is erratic has no composure whatever and disposal is miss more than hit.
Setterfield has no urgency and simply doesn’t do enough to warrant a spot in any team that is serious about playing finals.
Testify brother ... both a last resort IMO
Setterfield has no urgency and simply doesn’t do enough to warrant a spot in any team that is serious about playing finals.
Interestingly, I felt Setterfield lacked urgency last night and that was contrast by the way his team-mates used the football in traffic, in the same time it took Setters to decide what to do most team-mates were selling some candy and choosing another option, maybe he is not 100% fit?
This can also be a lack of confidence, I would have put LoB in the same category a year ago, perhaps even Kennedy although Kennedy gets points for forward play and showed improvement late last season. But you could see the positive difference in LoB last night, selling candy and riding bumps to big more powerful built opponents, and that must come from confidence because physically he hasn't changed body shape. It's all in his head!
But then look at Cripps last year versus Cripps last night, what a difference health and confidence makes, is there ever a clearer message to stop playing guys who are broken!
I'm afraid Bolton's "improvement through adversity" ethic really did some damage that has taken a long time to overcome. It think it went too far and caused significant damage, like throwing them all in the river to see who doesn't drown!
Only saw bits and pieces of the game last night.
Great first half by the boys.
Was livid in the third quarter when we were been rundown.
Not very happy at all, however after reading the changes made at half time then can maybe see some reason as to why.
Still don't like to see these lapses where we going missing for a quarter and give up leads or get blown away.
We did have a similar game against Geelong, last year were were all over them for three quarters only to just hold on for the win as per last night.
I think that this type of pattern that really needs to be put to bed before we can seriously make a challenge for the 8 let alone the premiership.
Loved McGovern's game, but I don't think he'll get too many weeks where he gets to play on his own.
Lever pretty much gets to play on his own every week. Dal Santo did a short video analysis for Fox Footy where he noted Lever
never plays on the opposition power forwards (and Weitering & OMac/Young would be the man-on-man defenders for us). Lever does take an opponent but sags off him when he runs outside 50 or makes decoy runs. He then reads the incoming ball-carrier and starts moving even before he kicks the ball. In a team defence system, others would take care of his opponent while he attends to his prime responsibility: intercept marking. Of course, it's all about timing and it's easier said than done. It's up to the back 6 to swap around to counter attempts to drag the intercept marker away from the hot spots.
According to Vossy, Plowman was grabbed from the grandstand and told to get his footy gear on for his cameo in the last quarter.
Vossy had a bit of a chuckle about our forward line with Parks, Willo and Plow all playing very unusual roles for them. Ash Hanson may have to borrow some of Hamill's squad and give them some lessons in basic forward craft ::)
It was good that all three made contributions and their adaptability and willingness to take on the challenge would have pleased the coaching panel. It was interesting that McGovern wasn't shifted forward, and that probably was an important factor in us hanging on for the win.
Lever pretty much gets to play on his own every week. Dal Santo did a short video analysis for Fox Footy where he noted Lever never plays on the opposition power forwards (and Weitering & OMac/Young would be the man-on-man defenders for us).
I like Lever, but this is exactly why for me Lever isn't a shadow of a Weitering or May type.
Let's hope McGovern gets a similar chop out from a our MC, because he's potentially even better than Lever.
Tough decisions coming for Rnd 1, does De Koning go to the bench allowing Charlie to return, what will the balance be, I suspect we won't run all three talls in the F50 as I think the BigH / De Koning mix was about right, two is enough with either SoJ or Kemp but maybe not both? So many good problems to have!
Interestingly, it seems our Church Mice squad are inadvertently big beneficiaries of the new "Shut the F@#$ Up" rule!
I hope I haven't put the kibosh on them! :o
I’m not sure why folk are pleased with Matt Kennedy’s game; he only had one tackle 🙄
I guess it’s hard to tackle when you’re the one with the pill 🙂
And, speaking of tackles, what about Tom de Koning’s run-down tackle? 😍
I arrived home far too late last night to make any comments. It was a long, hot night, but quite enjoyable.
[1] Our midfield work:
I was really pleased with our midfield work, not because our players played well, but because of the way they jelled together and moved the ball to each other. It was really nice to see and gave our forward a much better chance to do something constructive. Cerra and Hewett really fit in well, while Pitto was more than useful on the ground.
[2] Matt Kennedy:
For a guy who was struggling early last year, Kennedy has really turned things around. And not just in the middle, where he took some risks and got rewarded for them. It was his strong marking in the forward line that stood out. he had 9 marks and most of them were really strong. That goes well with 9 clearances. His kicking is much improved, but is still much better on the move than with set shots. His 37 possessions last night really showed how he has improved.
[3] Melbourne are morons:
I cannot believe Melbourne was just so undisciplined. They were lucky not to have more than 8 50 metre penalties paid against them. It might have incensed their fans, but they wouldn't shut up. Nor can they count: 3 times they were caught unable to get 6 players in the right zones and, again, they were lucky it wasn't more. I don't think I've ever seen a stupider display.
[4] Melbourne really wanted to win badly.
I am glad we won for a lot of reasons, not just because it does my mental health so good to win. But we took off our entire forward line at half time. We have parks, Williamson and Plowman as forward for nearly half a game.
Melbourne, on the other hand, clearly had intentions to play some of their lesser known players in the second half. However, they were so shocked at half time that they shelved those plans. At least 2 guys never even made it onto the field, as Melbourne tried desperately to get back into the game. Two others barely got onto the park.
We hurt them. It was wonderful! Even with a non-existent forward line we beat them.
[5] Ruck issues:
Marc Pittonet gave his all last night, but he isn't the sort of ruckman who wins premierships. We will be stronger if he can stay fit. However, we need to develop Tom de Koning's ruck skills and body until he's another NicNat. He has the athleticism. I also have hopes for Mirkov, but he is still very much a work in progress. Seriously, this is an area we really need to develop if we are to challenge.
It's going to be tough to pick a round 1 side off the back of that..
Some players likely to miss that round 1 side include Williamson, cottrell, setterfield, Ed curnow, Newman, Dow, Newnes, plowman...and maybe some more. I reckon there was probably games last year when all of those players were in the same team, but I just can't see it happening.
A forward line of Charlie, Harry, Soj, durdin, owies, Fisher gives us a great mix of marking, crumbing, running, speed and pressure which will find the weakness if opposition defences.
Of course you have wildcards Kennedy, Kemp and De koning to add to the mix as well.
Midfield is clearly improved. The ball move.ent is something I haven't seen from our group in.....decades. The quickness and accuracy of the handballing is something that makes me think Diesel has had a big influence on the group. Lightning quick and devastating. Elite
Pittonet, cripps, Hewitt and cerra with Walsh and the very much improved LOB on the wings is everything we could ask for.
Backline held up remarkable well.
Weitering and gov will be locks, with one of McDonald/young joining them. The it's a matter of trying to fill the other roles. Saad, Williams and Docherty would all be unlucky to be left out of the back 6.
As mentioned earlier, you'd have Kennedy, Kemp and dekoning on the bench and you have to choose 1 of Martin, plowman, Ed, setterfield, Dow and the other of McDonald/ young.....to join them....and that's while you stocker and Cunningham unavailable.
Competition for spots is as tight as its ever been.
I sincerely doubt Newman will miss Rnd 1 unless he has a niggle.
Time doesn't stop for anyone, Ed might struggle this year except to cover the odd injury.
Not sure based on what we've seen form the two practise matches that Martin gets a start, Durdin getting injured may have saved him, calf strains don't fix themselves in 10 days.
I think the major influence is Voss, the trait of immediately selling some candy to buy some time the moment you take possession is typical of Voss. Just a little midfield trick that they are all doing right under the new coach, even Pitto! :o
Viney will be an interesting litmus test when it comes to ducking into tackles. When he's about to be tackled, he tilts his shoulders to 45 degrees and lowers his head. In 2 instances I can recall, he milked 1 free and the ump didn't fall for it in the other. It really needs more of a crackdown than the Selwood tactic of lifting his arms to force high contact. Selwood is merely exploiting the modern preference for tackling around the upper arms to prevent handballs rather than tackling around the waist as was more common in days gone by.
The other rule I'd like to see addressed is the shove-out in marking contests. Exhibit A was late in the 1st quarter on the far wing when Lever used 2 hands to the back to push SOS out of a marking contest as SOS jumped, propelling him a couple of metres in the process. At least Lever then returned to the ball drop and got 2 hands to it before spilling it. The more flagrant defensive tactic is to use hands or the shoulder to knock the guy with front position under the ball without even putting the arms up in an attempt to mark the ball themselves (and Eddie Betts did this often, running up and putting the shoulder in the back to push the opponent under the ball with the intent of getting the resulting ground ball). If I were in charge of the umpires I'd tell them that making contact with someone trying to mark a ball without any attempt to spoil (excluding a "body spoil") or mark is automatically a free kick.
Sooooo, GF tickets, how do we get em? ;D
#lidsoff
I sincerely doubt Newman will miss Rnd 1 unless he has a niggle.
I basically named my 21, with 1 to come from the rest....which included Newman
If you think he is a lock do you agree with the rest and he is the 22nd man or would you leave others out?
I've got nothing against Newman, but I'd rather have Saad, Williams and docherty as our small/medium backs.
Keep in mind this also pushes po
Lowman out of the side who I stand up for regularly.
Point being, it's not about if a bloke can play....we finally have enough who can, it's simply we can't fit them all in. O0
If I were in charge of the umpires I'd tell them that making contact with someone trying to mark a ball without any attempt to spoil (excluding a "body spoil") or mark is automatically a free kick.
If there is no attempt top mark then I agree, but using a shoulder of body to defend the space for the drop of the ball isn't illegal, but using hands is outright illegal in the rules and should be banned.
Coaches have forced a softening of the rules, as well as moron commentators like BT, who continually bleat about there being not enough force! The Scott's were beauties for this, but then again they were also beauties at "The Body Spoil" which is just code for tunnelling bigger opponents.
btw.' Franklin does the hands in the back all the time, Hall use to do it as well, as does Hawkins. They can use a upper arm or shoulder and that is legal in the rules if the ball is within the required distance. But use hands and I agree 100% it should be penalised.
Another thing I'd like to see ignored by umpires is small opponents running into big blokes and claiming high contact, it's become a deliberate tactic and they do it to Cripps al the time around the stoppages. Basically the midgets head straight towards him and face plant into his bicep then claim Cripps hit them high! Umpires should just ignore it, or even penalise these players for staging for free kicks. Whether it is legal of not I don't care about, it is not in the spirit of our sport, we don't want AFL players being carted off on a stretcher then bouncing up and running straight back on!
It's going to be tough to pick a round 1 side off the back of that..
...
Competition for spots is as tight as its ever been.
Another advantage Vossy has over his predecessors!
The only high profile player who hasn't really performed in the pre-season games is Martin but we don't know how he is going at training.
I've got 26 players who are "locks" for Round 1, 9 whose form/ability/experience isn't quite up to it yet, and 7 out of contention with injuries. Not a bad situation at all, particularly when at least 5 of the injured group are definitely in, or close to, our best 22.
I've got nothing against Newman, but I'd rather have Saad, Williams and docherty as our small/medium backs.
I doubt McDonald or Young get a gig ahead of Doc or Newman, especially if we are running both Pitto and De Koning.
To me Weitering, McGovern, Newman, Saad and Williams are the D50 locks, the last spot is up for grabs and I suspect Doc gets it if they are confident in his fitness and ability to recover each week. Not sure who gets the bench gig, could be McDonald, Williamson or Plowman at this stage. I suspect one of the reasons we saw Williamson and Plowman getting a run forward is the coach testing their utility to fit into the game plan.
I suspect the F50 is BigH, Charlie, SoJ, Kennedy, Owies and one other small, it was probably Durdin until his calf issue, so now that might cause a reshuiffle. Maybe Martin, but more likely Fisher get the last F50 spot. btw., On form Charlie is not really a soda, and it may be that there is a toss up between De Koning and SoJ, given it could be about opposition as much as our own list balance.
Midfield is Pitto, Cripps, Cerra, Hewitt are locks, for the wings I can see LoB should be a lock, for the other wing we might opt for SoJ if he's not getting a F50 gig, he was playing there before our ruck crisis last season. But the same may apply to Kemp, Martin or Fisher they aren't in F50. One of them gets this gig until Walsh returns, I suspect Walsh will start on the wing much of the time this season with a commission to roam to stoppages at both ends of the ground.
It's quite possible Doc ends up interchange and not in the starting D50, he has the engine and agility to fill in anywhere from standing a bigger opponent in D50 to playing a small forward role. Again this may come down to opposition make up. I suspect Williamson is primarily starting on the bench this season simply because of his utility, he has the speed and endurance to play small and the size to play tall, it may be a toss up between him, Ed and Plowman. De Koning should start on the bench, for Rnd 1 I'm not sure who gets the last spot, perhaps Kennedy moves to the bench as the midfield rotation and we play another dedicated small forward type. But it's not impossible some weeks we'll go three talls in F50 or even three talls in D50 subject to opposition. So much depends on our midfield ability to win the footy at stoppages, they win enough footy and we get to set the terms, to the victor the spoils.
Exhibit A was late in the 1st quarter on the far wing when Lever used 2 hands to the back to push SOS out of a marking contest as SOS jumped, propelling him a couple of metres in the process. At least Lever then returned to the ball drop and got 2 hands to it before spilling it.
That was one of the most blatant free kicks never paid ... and there were a couple of others almost as bad.
I think that the 'hands in the back' rule went too far, but pushing a player under the ball in a marking contest has to be a free kick.
Another advantage Vossy has over his predecessors!
It's amazing what a bit of fitness does, in the past we struggled to fill the 22, now we are arguing about who is unlucky to miss out!
One thing that I think has come out of this pre-season, I like the continued limited rotations but I can see a huge advantage to increasing the match day team to 24, 6 on the bench. In pre-season having the two extra is delivering a sustained intensity by ensuring those who come on are fresh. I'd rather have the 24, keep the rotation cap and and have no medical subs.
I also think given the potential for COVID disruptions the AFL should seriously consider making this change before Rnd 1, it will make managing match days much simpler when H&S protocols kick in. You can almost pick a guy who's is only capable / going to play 3 Qtrs!
I agree re Newman....will definitely play Round 1. Richmond have a lot of small/medium forwards who'll need to be closely watched. Both Williams and Saad like to run offensively and maybe aren't as defensively minded. I hope Doc gets back but not sure it'll be Round 1 against Tigers.
That for me would mean back 6 of Newman, Weitering, McGovern, Saad, McDonald and Williams and then another on the bench...probably Plowman. Hard to see how both Young and McDonald would play, especially if McGovern is playing back. McDonald would then likely get first crack at Reiwoldt and Weitering takes Lynch?
Guys like Setterfield, Williamson, Cottrell will likely get squeezed out too and Durdin might not be risked with a calf....so Fisher/Owies get the small forward spots.
I hope we go with both TDK and Pittonet. Agree that Pittonet isn't your A-Grader like a Gawn etc, but loved his game the other night and he makes a contest every time. He'll need to do that again up against Richmond.
🤣
Gibcus is doing well as a tall defender for the Tigers v Hawks. The Tigers took him with pick 9 but we could have nabbed him if we'd kept our pick 6. Still, I'm pretty sure most would be happy with us using pick 6 on Cerra right now. If Jones hadn't committed career suicide, it would have been even more clear cut.
If Jones hadn't committed career suicide, it would have been even more clear cut.
If McGovern keeps on this trajectory it's a win for us, sure he's smaller and maybe cannot stand gorilla types, but his ball use looks to be be a tad more consistent at picking and hitting targets than Jones! ;)
And I haven't noticed or missed any of those the infamous chaos spoils yet!
If McGovern keeps on this trajectory it's a win for us, sure he's smaller and maybe cannot stand gorilla types, but his ball use looks to be be a tad more consistent at picking and hitting targets than Jones! ;)
And I haven't noticed or missed any of those the infamous chaos spoils yet!
His kicking on both sides of his body was a real highlight for me.
Richmond perfected the tunnelling body spoil. But don't do it to them, the squealer will make sure you pay for it
Richmond perfected the tunnelling body spoil. But don't do it to them, the squealer will make sure you pay for it
The problems start when the whingers get allies in The Big House, then all of a sudden "interpretations" change and it is like you are watching a different game!
I've a pretty simple outlook on this stuff, if it's not written in black and white in the laws of the game it's not a rule! I don't read anywhere in the rules that a push in the back is only a push in the back if it's above force threshold number 3!
As far as tunnelling goes, I don't care if you use hands, back, legs, shoulder or bum, it's not on, Dangerflog basically ended Judd's career with such an illegal spoil by unbalancing Judd using an outstretched leg!
Casboult is looking in good nick in the Suns v Cats game. Hope he can take advantage of King's absence. He's certainly putting in the effort: he ironed out his team mate Mabil Chol who was about to mark on the lead, sprinted into the centre square for a mark and received a free in a marking contest 30 m out (but fortnuately a team mate took the advantage and scored the goal). All in the first few minutes. Promising signs.
Kennedy....the overnight success that's taken its time.
There was a game last year when he was the medical sub and came on with a lot of energy.
It was one of the first times I noticed that he looked confident and ready to impose himself.
I'll have to recheck it but I think while I was doing a scan of the B&F last year and noticed that Kennedy scored better than any player except Walsh and Weitering after the bye.
So maybe not that surprising. ;)
Kennedy struggled with injury for a couple of seasons. Then, he seemed to be out of favour under DT. I’m looking forward to him getting regular games. His marking and kicking for goal is a real strength as a midfielder. Just as Polson was the BB mini me, I think Bam Bam may be the Vossy mini me. At least I hope so.
So much to like during the hit out. None more pleasing than the defensive efforts across the ground. The synergy in the midfield was also pleasing.
Kennedy struggled with injury for a couple of seasons. Then, he seemed to be out of favour under DT. I’m looking forward to him getting regular games. His marking and kicking for goal is a real strength as a midfielder. Just as Polson was the BB mini me, I think Bam Bam may be the Vossy mini me. At least I hope so.
So much to like during the hit out. None more pleasing than the defensive efforts across the ground. The synergy in the midfield was also pleasing.
Kennedy was more out of favour with Bolton than Teague. To be frank, it was the move to the rookie list that seemed to bring him back to life. Some people need to stare the death of their career in the face, before they can start to appreciate it, and breathe life into it.
I think the boys were put under a lot of pressure with Bolts, and some of them may have fell out of love with the game. Props to Teague who seemed to reignite the flame in a lot of the team.
I think Teague's only real issue was that whilst its good to enjoy your footy, there seemed to be a lack of team ethos, and a going through the motions. Perhaps it was the fact that some of our blokes may have thought that they could be developed as individuals and players better.
Kennedy was more out of favour with Bolton than Teague. To be frank, it was the move to the rookie list that seemed to bring him back to life. Some people need to stare the death of their career in the face, before they can start to appreciate it, and breathe life into it.
Yes, we will never really know.
There were also those rumours of some fractured relationships between Kennedy and others at the club, maybe those issues have moved on! But there was a lot of shizen happening during the pandemic seasons that are not really a fair or normal circumstance.
I think Teague's only real issue was that whilst its good to enjoy your footy, there seemed to be a lack of team ethos, and a going through the motions. Perhaps it was the fact that some of our blokes may have thought that they could be developed as individuals and players better.
Yes, this seems to be the case but as fans we can't be sure, but you would expect somebody on the inside knows and it may well have been a contributing factor to Teague losing his job!
I think the boys were put under a lot of pressure with Bolts, and some of them may have fell out of love with the game.
Pavlov's dogs.