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Re: General Discussions

Reply #1245
If the cops follow the Sherlock Holmes tradition, then their instincts are worthy of respect. If they follow the racial profiling practices that seem to be all the rage in the USA, then that’s prejudice rather than intuition.

Yes. That racial profiling you mention has nothing to do with intuition... just pure, unadulterated prejudice.
Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17

Re: General Discussions

Reply #1246
Perhaps an interesting question might be where does prejudice come from? What is at the core (psychologically speaking) of prejudice?

Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17

Re: General Discussions

Reply #1247
Perhaps an interesting question might be where does prejudice come from? What is at the core (psychologically speaking) of prejudice?

Difference!

Many years ago something like racism was based on the feeling of superiority of one group over another.
Nowadays it's more about a 'difference' and a lack of understanding and appreciation of another group.

Re: General Discussions

Reply #1248
Its called intuition I believe.

Not prejudice or bias.  Prejudice or bias declares an outcome and then will exclude facts until it arrives at the desired outcome.  Its actually a different phenomenon, and my point was made to support yours not go against it.  I think Mav interpreted it the way he wanted to in support of his own point, which there is nothing wrong with that, but its an example of what Im talking about.

I took your comments the way you intended them. Just clarifying the initial question. Not sure how Mav was reading it, but yes, backs up our argument that he did take it differently.

Had the word intuition been used instead of prejudice/bias and gut instinct, it wouldn't have such a negative bias associated with it, which was at the core of the question.

Twice Mav has shown his prejudice/bias (albeit unintended) by bringing up black people and their struggles. This was in reference to the word stereotype i used. His bias implies that all stereotypes have negative connotations, which is untrue. 'All Asians are good at Maths' or 'All black people have big.......*feet*' are equally as valid examples.
Maybe Mav just views the world through a more negative, untrusting lense than others? But this isn't about him or LP.

Re: General Discussions

Reply #1249
By the way, there doesn’t seem to be great evidence behind the “police gut” idea. The research suggests that police officers don’t get better at spotting lies or reading body language as they accrue experience. And they aren’t necessarily better than others. The much more reliable method of investigating is to accumulate evidence and look for inconsistencies. Unfortunately, US TV shows love to promote the idea of the cop with an infallible ability to spot the liar. Lie to Me had a body language expert who would have a Eureka moment in each episode when a single observation would reveal to him the guilty person. In reality, one observation isn’t reliable and behaviour has to be assessed against the base line for that individual rather than some population standard. Otherwise, police will inevitably suspect the oddball like Lindy Chamberlain and try to mould the evidence to convict her.

Criminal Minds raised behavioural analysis to the level where it’s stars could tell police what food the “unsubs” like and what side of the bed they sleep on. In reality, the information the real unit compiles just paints a picture of the average weather than the particular unsub. When there was a sniper on the loose who had killed a number of random people, the FBI concluded that he was a lone gunman who was white. That was a reasonable guess based on historical information: the great majority of serial killers are white and they usually act alone. Ultimately the police caught a father and son team who were black.

Again, an alert copper is an open-minded one who pays particular attention to things that might go unnoticed by the lazy copper. That’s the Sherlock Holmes tradition that Columbo honoured.

Re: General Discussions

Reply #1250
Yes. That racial profiling you mention has nothing to do with intuition... just pure, unadulterated prejudice.

Isn't all profiling prejudice is some way though? There is always some kind of -ist attached to it.
Racist.
Sexist
Ageist
etc

Serial killer profile - looking for a white male, 50+.
Reason behind that profiling - People missing from affluent neighbourhood, usually young girls, killer shows methodical patience and ability to cover his tracks.

Black people can't have money?
Females can't like young girls?
Younger people can't be organised?

Sure, what Mav described is an extreme case that never should've occurred. But if looked at data on the profile of people who are likely to give the police trouble, then black males, with past indescretions who are in the 18-50 age bracket would almost certainly be the picture you get painted from a statistical analysis point of view.

So whats the difference between the 2 types of profiling?

Re: General Discussions

Reply #1251
Thryleon, perhaps I assumed that you regarded intuition as applying past experience after gathering enough information to understand how similar the new situation is. If you regard intuition as applying past experience without doing so, then we’re definitely on different sides of the argument. As the old saying goes, if you only have a hammer, then everything looks like a nail.

Re: General Discussions

Reply #1252
Again, an alert copper is an open-minded one who pays particular attention to things that might go unnoticed by....
....the majority of people. Sometimes sub-consciously. Thus getting a feel for a situation without exactly knowing why - hence gut instinct and/or intuition.

Re: General Discussions

Reply #1253
As I described it above.


Re: General Discussions

Reply #1255
I disagree with your disagreement.

Re: General Discussions

Reply #1256
And what about intuition that proved correct based on no discernible evidence?

Example: I was looking forward to living in Darwin when I was a part of the HMAS Arrow ship's company. The Arrow was being refit in Sydney before sailing for, and to be based in, Darwin. I was the comms guy. Shortly (few weeks) before sailing out of Sydney for Darwin, I just got an awful feeling and got very anxious, debilitatingly so. So I swapped with another comms guys with similar experience (RO McGowan), and he went to Darwin on the Arrow and I stayed in Sydney on HMAS Bombard. The Arrow sank in Darwin Harbour during cyclone Tracey. Macca was unhurt, thank the gods. My good mate LT Bob Dagworthy, who was the Skipper, was also unhurt but two mates perished. (Crew of 18). This has happened a good few times and always without any evidence or reason. (No, not clairvoyant or anything like that nonsense).
Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17

Re: General Discussions

Reply #1257
Isn't all profiling prejudice is some way though? There is always some kind of -ist attached to it.
Racist.
Sexist
Ageist
etc

Correct profiling wouldn't be prejudiced, remembering that prejudice is to judge another unfairly based on... etc. Profiling more relies pure objectivity and consistencies with previous similar crimes. Once judgement and assessment becoming influenced by prejudice I believe it is no longer profiling... just some bigoted pr1ck attempting to force a fit to satisfy his/her twisted beliefs.
Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17

Re: General Discussions

Reply #1258
@Baggers,
Ultimately, you need a bigger sample size to be proven statistically relevant. Doesn't make it less relevant for you though.

Thankfully, that is not something you'd ever have to prove.

 

Re: General Discussions

Reply #1259
Maybe you heard storm warnings even though you didn’t dwell on them on a conscious level? Or maybe you had some nagging concerns which had nothing to do with the weather but they saved you from it by pure luck?  If not, maybe you are clairvoyant! In which case, send me some numbers for the next Powerball draw!