Another Friday night nightmare on the horizon. Embarrassing in Brisbane. Maybe we can find something, but you wouldn't bet on it.
Another Friday night nightmare on the horizon. Embarrassing in Brisbane. Maybe we can find something, but you wouldn't bet on it.
St Kilda make Brisbane look slow! :o
An embarrassing loss to St.Kilda should see bolton out the door.
An embarrassing loss to St.Kilda should see bolton out the door.
If we play like this against those non-entities, then ...
An embarrassing loss to St.Kilda should see bolton out the door.
Unfortunately that would probably say more about CFC than it would about BB. :(
Unfortunately that would probably say more about CFC than it would about BB. :(
You can't put up with that crape unfortunately. He is not getting through to the players.
You can't put up with that crape unfortunately. He is not getting through to the players.
Think it will be another mass player cut before Bolton gets flicked.......
You can't put up with that crape unfortunately. He is not getting through to the players.
If we are not tanking, then there is something very wrong.
If we are tanking, we are putting the young talent to the sword and they might never find a way out of the mire!
Think it will be another mass player cut before Bolton gets flicked.......
I don't think it'll be the players that need cutting though.
There are some teflon types around our club that seem to survive year after year while not making the grade, not just the players by the way!
I don't think it'll be the players that need cutting though.
There are some teflon types around our club that seem to survive year after year while not making the grade, not just the players by the way!
Macca will be gone, maybe there'll be others.
Macca will be gone, maybe there'll be others.
He's got very little to do with what happened on the field today, but he must answer for some the coaching and staff appointments, even though the board must tick it off!
I gather he'll wear some of the immediate heat, but that will just be a smokescreen hiding some of the real offenders.
Apparently Tom Elliot is gathering numbers as we speak..........
Apparently Tom Elliot is gathering numbers as we speak..........
No surprise, doubt he'll get much traction though, the problems run deeper!
Apparently Tom Elliot is gathering numbers as we speak..........
That one has been around for quite a while H.
No surprise, doubt he'll get much traction though, the problems run deeper!
The number one problem is our woeful list, we've got about half a dozen tops who would even make Richmond's list let alone get a game for them.
Cripps and Charlie would get a game at any side, then you struggle.
The number one problem is our woeful list, we've got about half a dozen tops who would even make Richmond's list let alone get a game for them.
Cripps and Charlie would get a game at any side, then you struggle.
On paper, Richmond's list also looks average. Wonder what Hardwick, Caracella and Balme could with our boys.
Wonder what Hardwick, Caracella and Balme could with our boys.
Dimma's skill was recognising the coaches were the real problem, he's sacked most of the influences who refused to let go, and stepped back to let the talent take control!
On paper, Richmond's list also looks average. Wonder what Hardwick, Caracella and Balme could with our boys.
No one could make AFL players out of some of ours.
I'm not exonerating the coaches but when you cast a critical eye over our playing list you realise just how thin it is.
Realistically Docherty, Byrne and Dow were the only players missing today who could be a part of a good side in three or four years from now, Plowman maybe, so even if we hit pay dirt in the next few drafts we'll still be down on talent.
I think that Kennedy was another bad call by us as well.
No one could make AFL players out of some of ours.
I'm not exonerating the coaches but when you cast a critical eye over our playing list you realise just how thin it is.
Realistically Docherty, Byrne and Dow were the only players missing today who could be a part of a good side in three or four years from now, Plowman maybe, so even if we hit pay dirt in the next few drafts we'll still be down on talent.
I think that Kennedy was another bad call by us as well.
Actually, if our draftees from the last 3 years wore red and white I bet they'd all be firing, contributing heavily to a good side, not going backwards. We need to look at what is going on inside our club. Our draftees have shown talent individually. Why isn't it being developed. Rhys Palmer might've been onto something with that tweet. You'd think he'd have an idea.
Kennedy I've liked the last few weeks. Can't help injuries and fitness. It's done the job of helping out Cripps alot and letting him float forward rather than getting clobbered all day.
Rhys Palmer might've been onto something with that tweet. You'd think he'd have an idea.
As fans we often quickly assume he talking about players, coaches or football department, but maybe not!
As fans we often quickly assume he talking about players, coaches or football department, but maybe not!
Probably the club as a whole not one particular group.
Probably the club as a whole not one particular group.
Fans too, are we to blame?
Fans too, are we to blame?
Only when we let it continue and say nothing....
Only when we let it continue and say nothing....
Then perhaps start by changing your avatar, big questions have to asked!
Actually, if our draftees from the last 3 years wore red and white I bet they'd all be firing, contributing heavily to a good side, not going backwards. We need to look at what is going on inside our club. Our draftees have shown talent individually. Why isn't it being developed. Rhys Palmer might've been onto something with that tweet. You'd think he'd have an idea.
Kennedy I've liked the last few weeks. Can't help injuries and fitness. It's done the job of helping out Cripps alot and letting him float forward rather than getting clobbered all day.
Kennedy looks like a workhorse to me, a bit of a plodder with no real class but he has a dip and keeps at it.
Those types you want to pick up in the third round or as rookies like Ed Curnow, you don't want to be trading good draft picks for them.
Why we were interested in Lang I have no idea.
I don't think it'll be the players that need cutting though.
There are some teflon types around our club that seem to survive year after year while not making the grade, not just the players by the way!
Who do you refer to?
Apparently Tom Elliot is gathering numbers as we speak..........
God help us ::)
That one has been around for quite a while H.
After every bad loss Cookie.
Kennedy looks like a workhorse to me, a bit of a plodder with no real class but he has a dip and keeps at it.
Those types you want to pick up in the third round or as rookies like Ed Curnow, you don't want to be trading good draft picks for them.
Why we were interested in Lang I have no idea.
Agree on Kennedy, blue collar worker but you have to be careful who you play him on and if to make him a offensive or defensive player....
Also agree on the 3rd/4th rounder or VFL rookie type value.......
Lang was pushed out of Geelong by their midfield riches/salary cap but was never really trialled as a mid much.......you look at Tim Kelly who they brought from the WAFL and you think
wow how good was that drafting but would he be any better than Lang in our team?..probably not.
We recruit supporting actors and then try and turn them into lead actors...doesnt work.
Apparently Tom Elliot is gathering numbers as we speak..........
Didnt know Tom could play, coach and list manage?
Although Richmond did improve when they had that ill fated challenge.....
Pick a FF next weekend or clean out your locker Brendan, you're on notice.
Didnt know Tom could play, coach and list manage?
Although Richmond did improve when they had that ill fated challenge.....
Nothing motivates like fighting for your life!
Kennedy looks like a workhorse to me, a bit of a plodder with no real class but he has a dip and keeps at it.
Those types you want to pick up in the third round or as rookies like Ed Curnow, you don't want to be trading good draft picks for them.
Why we were interested in Lang I have no idea.
If you revisit that swap you quickly find out he actually didn't cost us much in terms of a trade.
Which tells you a little bit about what we thought we were getting. We swapped pick 28 for him.
Perhaps we are being unrealistic. Sam Docherty looked a bit average in his first season with us too, but a year later he really improved. Let's hope this happens again (Kennedy was more surplus to requirements than Docherty was).
Kennedy is a solid foot soldier. He doen't have X-factor but could be useful with more talent around him. I don't see him as much more than that and have no expectations beyond that atm.
Both Lang and Kennedy had very interrupted pre seasons....don't judge them yet!
I agree, they both need a full pre-season then a string of games before we can tell what they bring. I do like patches of what I've seen from Kennedy. Lang is a worry at this stage, doesn't seem to want to put his nose over the ball when required
I agree, they both need a full pre-season then a string of games before we can tell what they bring. I do like patches of what I've seen from Kennedy. Lang is a worry at this stage, doesn't seem to want to put his nose over the ball when required
this
Both Lang and Kennedy had very interrupted pre seasons....don't judge them yet!
Do interrupted pre-seasons explain not contesting, or being brushed aside by a teenager?
Lang is a worry at this stage, doesn't seem to want to put his nose over the ball when required
Lang's not a worry, because players like him are a dime a dozen!
Cripps is the worry!
I saw St Kilda play earlier this year and they were shocking, as bad as us in fact.
If we bring our competitive game we can beat them, provided we pick another tall forward even if it's Casboult.
I can't believe I just said that but desperate times call for desperate measures.
Got a lot of injuries the Saints and they dont have the star power of Cripps and Charlie Curnow...I'd expect to win but it doesnt change anything..
Remember that Stkilda are a failed rebuild and are where you would expect them to be and bottom 4 material for a fair while yet.......
My son in law to be is a mad Saints fan and said he expects to lose by 5 goals......
I saw St Kilda play earlier this year and they were shocking, as bad as us in fact.
If we bring our competitive game we can beat them, provided we pick another tall forward even if it's Casboult.
I can't believe I just said that but desperate times call for desperate measures.
It was one reason Levi was still needed, to be the big body to take the heat from the younger key forwards. Yesterday was a case in point, although he is out of form, so at least go with another key forward. No matter what form Levi is in he'll get alot of respect from the opposition, meaning he'll take a couple of defenders. His presence makes life way easier for Charlie. He'll still get a few shots for goal too, hopefully not 0.3 next time from his 4 kicks. I'd take 2.1. Opposition were never going to respect a ruckman at FF so they'd near all go to Charlie.
It was one reason Levi was still needed, to be the big body to take the heat from the younger key forwards. Yesterday was a case in point, although he is out of form, so at least go with another key forward. No matter what form Levi is in he'll get alot of respect from the opposition, meaning he'll take a couple of defenders. His presence makes life way easier for Charlie. He'll still get a few shots for goal too, hopefully not 0.3 next time from his 4 kicks. I'd take 2.1. Opposition were never going to respect a ruckman at FF so they'd near all go to Charlie.
I'd prefer McKay but he seems to be on the outer for some reason.
We've seen the best of Casboult and it's nothing flash, there's nothing to lose by running with McKay or Kerr, or both, for the rest of the season so we get a better idea of where we're going in 2019.
I'd even give DeKoning (?) a few games and see what he's got.
I'd prefer McKay but he seems to be on the outer for some reason.
We've seen the best of Casboult and it's nothing flash, there's nothing to lose by running with McKay or Kerr, or both, for the rest of the season so we get a better idea of where we're going in 2019.
I'd even give DeKoning (?) a few games and see what he's got.
Probably best going with McKay/Kerr now as they need games for our future, but that's one reason Levi's around, his big body helps the younger key forwards. He'll always get the respect of the opposition, which means less defenders for the younger forwards as they further develop.
I was with De Koning having a crack this week against Brisbane as I thought, at least at the time, it was a good game for him to debut in. He has a hamstring injury though.
I was with De Koning having a crack this week against Brisbane as I thought, at least at the time, it was a good game for him to debut in. He has a hamstring injury though.
Both the Lions rucks are over 100kg, one of them is listed at 107kg which is probably conservative at best! De Koning is a relative lightweight.
Both the Lions rucks are over 100kg, one of them is listed at 107kg which is probably conservative at best! De Koning is a relative lightweight.
Agree...DeKoning had an extremely bad lacerated kidney, he probably doesnt a knee in the back from a 107kg unit until he gets some kegs on the frame and know how....
Think it will be another mass player cut before Bolton gets flicked.......
Can't. We've signed them all up already.
Can't. We've signed them all up already.
Trade then, what is their worth given our record! ;D
Kennedy is a solid foot soldier. He doen't have X-factor but could be useful with more talent around him. I don't see him as much more than that and have no expectations beyond that atm.
Since his proper return from that r1 injury, I've been pleased with Kennedy. Hard at it, and managed effective disposals under duress. The bonus might be his kicking for goal. I like his apparent persistence when the heat is on. Too many others shy from that. I just hope he's over his injury concerns and gets a consistent run. He's exactly the type we need several more of running through the middle.
Agree with this, Kennedy will work out fine, especially if we can get a couple of mature bodies around him as he continues to develop
Can't. We've signed them all up already.
We cant continue with this list, not sure why we would re-sign so many given our position...... :o
Trade then, what is their worth given our record! ;D
Who would want to trade for any blokes we deem are not required on OUR list?
Since his proper return from that r1 injury, I've been pleased with Kennedy. Hard at it, and managed effective disposals under duress. The bonus might be his kicking for goal. I like his apparent persistence when the heat is on. Too many others shy from that. I just hope he's over his injury concerns and gets a consistent run. He's exactly the type we need several more of running through the middle.
I'm not sure you can call dropping the ball at his feet when tackled or trying to hand-pass to a teammate under duress should be called effective disposals. So far he has only shown that he is an inside midfielder because he is too slow to be anything else.
I'm not sure you can call dropping the ball at his feet when tackled or trying to hand-pass to a teammate under duress should be called effective disposals. So far he has only shown that he is an inside midfielder because he is too slow to be anything else.
He has a crack and seems to have a good attitude but his game isn't anything special.
Hopefully he's got some improvement to come, pace isn't everything.
He has a crack and seems to have a good attitude but his game isn't anything special.
Hopefully he's got some improvement to come, pace isn't everything.
Yep he is very blue collar but doesnt have a great set of tricks which is what you need when you lack pace......needs to kick those goals too to add some polish to his game.
Hasnt had a proper preseason and been iinjured with that ankle so maybe we can cut him some slack until next season when he should have a proper preperation...
After our Round 1 game against Richmond, although we lost, we were applauded for our new aggressive game plan that Saeid score 95 points. 15 rounds later the onfield personnel hasn’t changed dramatically, but everything else has. We got opened up by GC the next week because I think we got ahead of ourselves (had to imagine!) and since then it’s been downhill all the way.....
Surely post GC, the game plan only needed tweeting rather than an overhaul?
Who would want to trade for any blokes we deem are not required on OUR list?
Like Gowers or Holman?
Will be watching this one on TV at home, sitting in a comfortable chair, heater well stoked up and with a nice bottle of red by my side. That way losing doesn't seem quite so bad. I have no real expectations but just a fatal fascination that draws me to watch - is this the start of masochism or have I already fallen victim?? :o
Will be watching this one on TV at home, sitting in a comfortable chair, heater well stoked up and with a nice bottle of red by my side. That way losing doesn't seem quite so bad. I have no real expectations but just a fatal fascination that draws me to watch - is this the start of masochism or have I already fallen victim?? :o
Get on us this week Cookie and save a glass of that red to toast the lads at the end of the game.....went to a little winery called Hanrahans in the Yarra Valley where they do a nice Shiraz, going to have one ready to go when I return home victorious on Friday...well thats the plan anyway... :P :-X
It'll taste like red wine vinegar after Jack Stevens gets 35 (and kicks four), Ross 23 contested, Billings runs amok, Gresham kicks three in a quarter....
It'll taste like red wine vinegar after Jack Stevens gets 35 (and kicks four), Ross 23 contested, Billings runs amok, Gresham kicks three in a quarter....
I know the odds are against us Prof but we have to show some spine and heart eventually....fingers crossed, we cant play as badly as vs Brisbane.
Saints are carp and weak with injuries too.....lose this week by a lot and the club will need to make some hard calls on its future.
This is backs to the wall stuff and we have to respond.....
I know the odds are against us Prof but we have to show some spine and heart eventually....fingers crossed, we cant play as badly as vs Brisbane.
Saints are carp and weak with injuries too.....lose this week by a lot and the club will need to make some hard calls on its future.
This is backs to the wall stuff and we have to respond.....
Spot on, I thought that Freo was line in the sand time so we're a few weeks overdue.
If we don't show some fair dinkum fight this week the rumblings will be felt in Albury.
Spot on, I thought that Freo was line in the sand time so we're a few weeks overdue.
If we don't show some fair dinkum fight this week the rumblings will be felt in Albury.
It is not our culture.
We are the kinder playgroup of the AFL.
After the game every body gets a gold star and hug before going home for some birdie num nums and to be tucked into bed!
There is more chance of us stopping the game for a risk assessment on a tackle than having a serious crack!
If any of our blokes look like amping it up they'd be booked into anger management Monday morning!
It'll taste like red wine vinegar after Jack Stevens gets 35 (and kicks four), Ross 23 contested, Billings runs amok, Gresham kicks three in a quarter....
Agree.
I've lost all hope as we don't have the cattle to field a team capable of beating anyone with our current injuries to key players. The back up players are no where near ready.
If we play close to our best it will be a 1-4 goal loss. Turn up like we have at times this year and it will be a another hiding.
Reality is we have won 2 games in the last 25 matches :-[ and this very fact means our opposition would hate to be the team to lose to such a club so getting an upset in these times is now even harder. Essendon are still coping crap for dropping the game to us. Heppell said this week that the loss to Carlton forced them to review every aspect of their football department. That's what losing to Carlton these days does.
Our bottom six we have been forced to field are 'barely' VFL standard and cannot provide any impact at AFL level. Asking the remaining players to carry 1/3 of the team makes winning near impossible....till we have the cattle to field a full team of AFL ready players a close loss is all we can hope for.
IMO our next win wont be till next season which means we will likely to finish the year as 2 wins from the last 33 matches. And the donkeys running this organisation come out and publicly say we don't need a priority pick.
Insane.
Get on us this week Cookie and save a glass of that red to toast the lads at the end of the game.....went to a little winery called Hanrahans in the Yarra Valley where they do a nice Shiraz, going to have one ready to go when I return home victorious on Friday...well thats the plan anyway... :P :-X
Well we can hope EB. Personally I'm not optimistic but I will certainly enjoy the wine come what may.
Can't. We've signed them all up already.
Surely we have heaps that we can delist
Surely we have heaps that we can delist
If we are to catch up, it appears we should have done the deal with players from other clubs months ago!
Like Gowers or Holman?
...and the other 30 that have gone in the same time??
We've picked up other clubs delistees over the same period too.
FWIW, i'd take Wright over those 2 any day of the week.
...and the other 30 that have gone in the same time??
We've picked up other clubs delistees over the same period too.
FWIW, i'd take Wright over those 2 any day of the week.
At the time we got Wright I'd agree but not now...Wrights form has slipped and Gowers is young, strong and on the up, need to see more of Holman...
Surely we have heaps that we can delist
Define 'heaps'.
Given we are wanting to ADD senior players to our list, delisting senior players for senior players is probably not going to solve a lot. Not too many kids are available to be delisted.
FWIW here are the players we know our out of contract this year.
[glow=maroon,2,300]6 Kade Simpson 2018[/glow] - Keep if he is willing.
[glow=maroon,2,300]39 Dale Thomas 2018[/glow] - Keep if he is willing.
[glow=maroon,2,300]17 Sam Rowe 2018[/glow] - Keep
[glow=maroon,2,300]33 Jarrod Pickett 2018[/glow] - Keep
[glow=maroon,2,300]36 Pat Kerr 2018[/glow] - Keep
[glow=maroon,2,300]46 Matthew Wright 2018[/glow] - I'd probably keep
[glow=maroon,2,300]11 Sam Kerridge 2018[/glow] - Would any replacement on him be an upgrade? 50-50 i think
[glow=maroon,2,300]13 Jed Lamb 2018[/glow] - Given the above, probably gone
[glow=maroon,2,300]32 Nick Graham 2018[/glow] - Lucky to have got this year, hasn't improved, gone.
The following players i cannot get a definitive contractual status on. May be contracted, may not. :-\
7 Matthew Kennedy - Keep
16 Darcy Lang - Keep, at least give him a pre-season to see what he can do.
18 Aaron Mullett - Delist
24 Cam O'Shea - Delist
27 Matthew Lobbe - Delist
and all 5 rookies can go IMO.
So not including rookies, i think we could MAYBE get 6 out. I'm tipping we will get at least 1 or 2 via trade (free agency/delisted free agent) which means we might have 4 picks.
If we trade pick 1 for 2 picks (or 1 pick and a player) we'll end up with less picks.
Currently we have pick 1, 23 and 26 (68, 73)
How many do you think we would/should ditch? Thoughts on my delisted list?
At the time we got Wright I'd agree but not now...Wrights form has slipped and Gowers is young, strong and on the up, need to see more of Holman...
Wright has won a leading goalkicker award at the club. Granted, not much to beat, but what have the others done of any significance?
At the time we got Wright I'd agree but not now...Wrights form has slipped and Gowers is young, strong and on the up, need to see more of Holman...
I think Holman would be a good get. An upgrade on a few of ours....
He's a great size, seemingly robust, hard at it and a tackling machine (averaging 6 a game). Also, physically mature at 23.
The number one problem is our woeful list, we've got about half a dozen tops who would even make Richmond's list let alone get a game for them.
Cripps and Charlie would get a game at any side, then you struggle.
Shaun Grigg gets a game at Richmond.
We've got an Irish kid on the rookie list who won't be getting delisted, LeBois actually has some talent so is probably worth another year to see if he can build his stats.
Given that Phillips is made of bubble gum we'll need a back up ruckman so Lobbe gets another year, I think that we drafted him anyway so that's two years regardless.
Graham isn't up to scratch but neither are Kerridge or Lamb, we certainly don't need all three.
Alex Silvagni will probably retire, Rowe should probably retire as well, Casboult is contracted.
Jack Silvagni, Cunningham, Macredie and Polson have big question marks against their names.
8 or 10 changes again minimum I reckon.
Shaun Grigg gets a game at Richmond.
200 or thereabouts.
That was just a shocking call on our part, like playing Warnock and Hampson ahead of Jacobs.
There's a bit of Grigg in Holman actually.
I think Holman would be a good get. An upgrade on a few of ours....
He's a great size, seemingly robust, hard at it and a tackling machine (averaging 6 a game). Also, physically mature at 23.
In fairness to the club, you cannot have Holman in the midfield with Cripps, Kennedy and Ed Curnow, we are already treacle slow and Holman would make things even worse, add SoJ to that list in the future and Carlton leg speed is looking like The Blue Rose! Anyway that ship has sailed.
The point wasn't to get types like that, it was more about getting blokes like Lang and Smedts while letting these guys go! It's pointless, the replacements are at best more of the same, not particularly moving forward are we!
We have metaphorically tossed a coin hoping for something other than a head or a tail, or at least it seems that way!
200 or thereabouts.
That was just a shocking call on our part, like playing Warnock and Hampson ahead of Jacobs.
There's a bit of Grigg in Holman actually.
We wanted to sign Grigg. He wanted to leave.
Not our fault there.
200 or thereabouts.
That was just a shocking call on our part, like playing Warnock and Hampson ahead of Jacobs.
There's a bit of Grigg in Holman actually.
Grigg used to get absolutely slated on here for his appalling disposal....maybe, just maybe he's one of those players who was able to improve to AFL standard the longer he was in the system. Sadly, we as a club (and supporters quite frankly) don't' seem to be able to have any patience with late bloomers.
We wanted to sign Grigg. He wanted to leave.
Not our fault there.
Agreed very different issues, both Grigg and Jacobs wanted out fans struggle to accept that but it's reality, we didn't offload them they left!
Fans tend to think every player departure is another Aaron Hamill situation.
We wanted to sign Grigg. He wanted to leave.
Not our fault there.
He was playing mainly for the Northern Blues, not surprising he wanted to leave, likewise Jacobs.
He was playing mainly for the Northern Blues, not surprising he wanted to leave, likewise Jacobs.
So by that logic, every club has 20-odd players that want to leave their club because they are playing 2's.
You can knuckle down and do what you need to do to earn a game in the 1's.
Or
You can piss off to another club.
He made his call, and i've got nothing against the club for how he was treated.
Personally don't care what sort of career he's had - Grigg is an ordinary footballer whose presence would make no difference to our current predicament.
Personally don't care what sort of career he's had - Grigg is an ordinary footballer whose presence would make no difference to our current predicament.
Doubt you'll find any disagreement, I even suspect if we recruit Grigg types our predicament will become worse!
So by that logic, every club has 20-odd players that want to leave their club because they are playing 2's.
You can knuckle down and do what you need to do to earn a game in the 1's.
Or
You can piss off to another club.
He made his call, and i've got nothing against the club for how he was treated.
That doesn't make a lot of sense.
In his last year at Carlton he played 8 or 10 senior games from memory, Richmond offered him something he was happy with and the rest is history, 200 games and a Premiership medal, with more to come maybe.
It's a stretch to argue that we didn't underestimate his ability but if that's where you want to go it's up to you.
Personally don't care what sort of career he's had - Grigg is an ordinary footballer whose presence would make no difference to our current predicament.
He'd walk into our current side, not only that but he'd be one of the group of experienced one club players who we are crying out for.
Ordinary footballers don't play 200 games, particularly at Premiership clubs.
It was a bad call by us, but I'll admit that at the time I didn't see it as any great loss so my judgement is no better than the management we had in place at the time.
He'd walk into our current side, not only that but he'd be one of the group of experienced one club players who we are crying out for.
Ordinary footballers don't play 200 games, particularly at Premiership clubs.
It was a bad call by us, but I'll admit that at the time I didn't see it as any great loss so my judgement is no better than the management we had in place at the time.
Easy to say it was a bad call with hindsight but I question whether he'd get a game if we weren't so injury ridden....
Easy to say it was a bad call with hindsight but I question whether he'd get a game if we weren't so injury ridden....
Easily, he'd be one of the first picked.
His skills aren't elite but he's tough, runs both ways, has an attacking instinct and does all of the team things.
It's only natural that he won't get much credit from Carlton supporters, but he's a very effective footballer.
He'd walk into our current side, not only that but he'd be one of the group of experienced one club players who we are crying out for.
I don't agree, we need more ACoS types, front line hard ball get contested possession leaders, not the players they give the ball to! ;)
Grigg is not structural, he's cladding, and I back our kids to be just as effective in the short term! Even a Lang type could be our Grigg if we surround him with the right players! If he can work on leg speed, I'd even back in SoJ to become our Grigg!
But a Cotchin, Caddy or Riewoldt type, that's a very different issue!
He'd walk into our current side, not only that but he'd be one of the group of experienced one club players who we are crying out for.
Ordinary footballers don't play 200 games, particularly at Premiership clubs.
It was a bad call by us, but I'll admit that at the time I didn't see it as any great loss so my judgement is no better than the management we had in place at the time.
Agree he would get a game and given he is a premiership player with 200 games its a closed case...he has had the last laugh and justified moving clubs.
Would he have a great impact on our results...probably not, he is a handy Indian but not a chief .....
That doesn't make a lot of sense.
In his last year at Carlton he played 8 or 10 senior games from memory, Richmond offered him something he was happy with and the rest is history, 200 games and a Premiership medal, with more to come maybe.
It's a stretch to argue that we didn't underestimate his ability but if that's where you want to go it's up to you.
My point is, according to you, he sooked it up because he wasn't playing 1's.
Ability doesn't enter into that debate.
He wasn't playing (Or wasn't playing enough) so he had 2 options.
1. Work on his weaknesses to cement his spot in the 1's .....and he has weaknesses
2. Piss off somewhere else.
It's like Laidler all over again.
Play the way we NEED you to play, otherwise we can't fit you in.
That doesn't mean the way you can play can't benefit someone else....just not us.
Both made their choice.
He'd walk into our current side, not only that but he'd be one of the group of experienced one club players who we are crying out for.
Ordinary footballers don't play 200 games, particularly at Premiership clubs.
It was a bad call by us, but I'll admit that at the time I didn't see it as any great loss so my judgement is no better than the management we had in place at the time.
He would be a walk up start, but then, that's not saying much. There would be at least 15 Tiger players that I would take ahead of him.
He would be a walk up start, but then, that's not saying much. There would be at least 15 Tiger players that I would take ahead of him.
He's barely missed a game since going to Richmond (130 games in 7 years 13 so far in 2018), after 40 odd games in four seasons at Carlton, so Richmond obviously saw something in him that we didn't and the bald facts suggest that their judgement has proven to be correct.
With due respect, I doubt that Hardwicke cares how you rate his players.
That doesn't mean the way you can play can't benefit someone else....just not us.
Yet here we are 7 years on, sitting dead last with one win and a percentage of 62. .
He surely couldn't have done us any harm.
Yet here we are 7 years on, sitting dead last with one win and a percentage of 62. .
He surely couldn't have done us any harm.
Which part of 'We offered him a contract - he left for more money at Richmond' don't you understand?
EDIT:
In fact, further to the above, rumour goes he had agreed to terms with Greg Swann who left on an overseas trip, then changed his mind and agreed with the Tigers in the meantime.
But sure, we should've offered him EXTRA coin on top of what he agreed to, just in case he was going to change his mind. You think he'd solve all our problems now?
Are you a member of his family??
Which part of 'We offered him a contract - he left for more money at Richmond' don't you understand?
EDIT:
In fact, further to the above, rumour goes he had agreed to terms with Greg Swann who left on an overseas trip, then changed his mind and agreed with the Tigers in the meantime.
But sure, we should've offered him EXTRA coin on top of what he agreed to, just in case he was going to change his mind. You think he'd solve all our problems now?
Are you a member of his family??
No, just a realist who pays little attention to rumours.
We offered him a contract as a player who had played 40 games in four seasons, a Nick Graham type in other words, Richmond saw something in him that we didn't and offered him more.
Only a fool would have knocked it back.
He's barely missed a game since going to Richmond (130 games in 7 years 13 so far in 2018), after 40 odd games in four seasons at Carlton, so Richmond obviously saw something in him that we didn't and the bald facts suggest that their judgement has proven to be correct.
With due respect, I doubt that Hardwicke cares how you rate his players.
Hardwick doesn't care, and neither do plenty of others. But that's not the point of forums. Richmond were treading water for years before they finally got their act together. You can swap Grigg with dozens of average role players and not know the difference. It's like picking out one match in a match box and saying "I prefer this one".
Hardwick doesn't care, and neither do plenty of others. But that's not the point of forums. Richmond were treading water for years before they finally got their act together. You can swap Grigg with dozens of average role players and not know the difference. It's like picking out one match in a match box and saying "I prefer this one".
But every club needs them, and Grigg plays his role very well.
And I don't think that they are as common as matches in a box, if they were we wouldn't be sitting on the bottom.
Which part of 'We offered him a contract - he left for more money at Richmond' don't you understand?
EDIT:
In fact, further to the above, rumour goes he had agreed to terms with Greg Swann who left on an overseas trip, then changed his mind and agreed with the Tigers in the meantime.
But sure, we should've offered him EXTRA coin on top of what he agreed to, just in case he was going to change his mind. You think he'd solve all our problems now?
Are you a member of his family??
If Im not mistaken, we had a couple of offers.
Richmond offered XYZ.
We offered ABC.
Shaun said no to ABC said he wanted XYZ
We then offered DEF whilst SHAUN was travelling, which he said yes to apparently.
Upon hearing we had countered, Richmond said to him we will give you another small z too, and then we countered again saying we would match it, and he said bugger it Im off anyway (thats how I remember it).
There is a common theme emerging. Players were only staying for big dollars else they were leaving, and its because we as a football club have been very poor. Ratten produced good results with our boys whilst we were here, but there is a tell about how well he performed as a coach, and it exists in the playing group we currently have. I don't know who it says more about, be it Ratten, our coaching panel or perhaps our football club anyone else, but whilst Ratten was at the club, the only renduring players were either here before him, or on their last chance at AFL football with no real other options.
The second anyone else had an option they left and the only exceptions to that rule are blokes we elected to get rid of.
We seem to have the same problem today, and Im not sure how you arrest that slide, but Cameron Poulson getting a contract is a bit of a tell. Half the kids probably dont want to stay with us, and we are renewing who wants to....
But every club needs them, and Grigg plays his role very well.
And I don't think that they are as common as matches in a box, if they were we wouldn't be sitting on the bottom.
No, Grigg types are common as matches in a box, it's some of the players around him that are not!
No, just a realist who pays little attention to rumours.
We offered him a contract as a player who had played 40 games in four seasons, a Nick Graham type in other words, Richmond saw something in him that we didn't and offered him more.
Only a fool would have knocked it back.
Rumour or not, he was offered a contract. He left for more. EOS.
You seem to think that offering our already underperforming players MORE money in case they might leave will solve our problems is laughable.
Grigg simply wasn't going to take us to the promised land.
Neither was 50-other blokes that have been moved on in the meantime.
Neither is Graham who will be moved on this year.
That doesn't mean Grigg, Graham or anyone else cannot have a role at an opposition club.
Why are you so fixated on Grigg? You've been silent on him for the past 7 years he hasn't been at the club. Suddenly because he has a premiership medallion around his neck he is an automatic superstar?
Why are you so fixated on Grigg? You've been silent on him for the past 7 years he hasn't been at the club. Suddenly because he has a premiership medallion around his neck he is an automatic superstar?
You're reading way too much into my posts Kruds, someone else brought Grigg up and I said that we made a bad call on him and that was all I said.
By bad call I didn't mean not offering him more money, I wasn't referring to anything to do with his contract.
I meant that we were playing players like Chris Johnson, Joe Anderson, Aaron Joseph, Jordan Russell and Denis Armfield ahead of him which gave him cause to look elsewhere, and even if you don't rate him you can't possibly rate him below those others.
That's what I meant, I also admitted that I underrated him as well but I don't get paid to make those calls so my opinion of him is irrelevant.
You're reading way too much into my posts Kruds, someone else brought Grigg up and I said that we made a bad call on him and that was all I said.
By bad call I didn't mean not offering him more money, I wasn't referring to anything to do with his contract.
I meant that we were playing players like Chris Johnson, Joe Anderson, Aaron Joseph, Jordan Russell and Denis Armfield ahead of him which gave him cause to look elsewhere, and even if you don't rate him you can't possibly rate him below those others.
That's what I meant, I also admitted that I underrated him as well but I don't get paid to make those calls so my opinion of him is irrelevant.
Yep. Grigg turned out to be a much better foot soldier than the ones we ended up going with. We've had some good players but we have struggled with the foot soldiers to support them imo.
No, Grigg types are common as matches in a box, it's some of the players around him that are not!
Richmond doesn't have many a graders, neither did Footscray, it's the Grigg types who win clubs flags.
Richmond doesn't have many a graders, neither did Footscray, it's the Grigg types who win clubs flags.
I think it was Robert Walls who said "Judge the quality of a team by the quality of it's bottom six as much as by the quality of its top six" or words to that effect.
You're reading way too much into my posts Kruds, someone else brought Grigg up and I said that we made a bad call on him and that was all I said.
By bad call I didn't mean not offering him more money, I wasn't referring to anything to do with his contract.
I meant that we were playing players like Chris Johnson, Joe Anderson, Aaron Joseph, Jordan Russell and Denis Armfield ahead of him which gave him cause to look elsewhere, and even if you don't rate him you can't possibly rate him below those others.
That's what I meant, I also admitted that I underrated him as well but I don't get paid to make those calls so my opinion of him is irrelevant.
Funny you mention those names. They all have 1 thing in common, and its something Grigg doesn't have. Which also happens to be his main weakness.
Simply, they can kick, he cannot. Ditto Mitch Robinson and Tom Bell. Plenty of big bodied midfielders out there who lack the ability to use the ball well. You can even throw Cripps in with that lot. Thankfully he is elite in other areas.
Well in order to make a bad call, or a good call, there has to be something to make a call on. In this case the 'call' was about him going or not. Given the reason he went was for more money (or at least the equivalent - but you don't believe rumours) then i'm not sure what 'call' we made that was 'bad'. Hence why this is all about his contract and him WANTING to leave, thus not giving us a 'call' to make.
Yep. Grigg turned out to be a much better foot soldier than the ones we ended up going with. We've had some good players but we have struggled with the foot soldiers to support them imo.
Agree, but all of those players were on less money than what Grigg was/is on too.
So its about value for money. Is 1 grigg better value than 1 JR and 1 Army combined?
I think it was Robert Walls who said "Judge the quality of a team by the quality of it's bottom six as much as by the quality of its top six" or words to that effect.
And by any yardstick our bottom six are very ordinary.
And by any yardstick our bottom six are very ordinary.
Some may say we have a bottom 36!
Given we have changed so many players, what does that mean for SOS?
But every club needs them, and Grigg plays his role very well.
And I don't think that they are as common as matches in a box, if they were we wouldn't be sitting on the bottom.
I don't deny that you make some fair points, but honestly, at this point in time, I think we can all agree that Grigg is barely worth discussing for more than a post here or there.
I think his contract for next year is yet to be renewed. But I can't access the HS website to confirm.
There is a common theme emerging. Players were only staying for big dollars else they were leaving, and its because we as a football club have been very poor. Ratten produced good results with our boys whilst we were here, but there is a tell about how well he performed as a coach, and it exists in the playing group we currently have. I don't know who it says more about, be it Ratten, our coaching panel or perhaps our football club anyone else, but whilst Ratten was at the club, the only renduring players were either here before him, or on their last chance at AFL football with no real other options.
The second anyone else had an option they left and the only exceptions to that rule are blokes we elected to get rid of.
Which players were they Thry? ???
I can't think of any apart from Grigg and Jacobs who went home for greater opportunities
Agree, but all of those players were on less money than what Grigg was/is on too.
So its about value for money. Is 1 grigg better value than 1 JR and 1 Army combined?
I guess you get what you pay for?
Is this the pre game thread? :o
You're reading way too much into my posts Kruds, someone else brought Grigg up and I said that we made a bad call on him and that was all I said.
Uh oh.....sorry, that was me....it certainly wasn't my intention to drop a grenade & run away ;)
I don't deny that you make some fair points, but honestly, at this point in time, I think we can all agree that Grigg is barely worth discussing for more than a post here or there.
I think his contract for next year is yet to be renewed. But I can't access the HS website to confirm.
I think we are discussing what Grigg is symptomatic of at CFC Paul rather than specifically Grigg. You can always argue the pros and cons of individual players but we have got it wrong so often. Our list management has been very poor, eos.
My recollections of Grigg was that he’s an outside player and because of his size we wanted him to play inside.
Whatever twoing and froing went on I wasn’t privy to, but if I was offered similar deals but one club said “we want to play you to your strengths” and the other club said “We want you to harden the farkk up and give us some crash and bash”
Which club would you choose ?
I don't deny that you make some fair points, but honestly, at this point in time, I think we can all agree that Grigg is barely worth discussing for more than a post here or there.
Yep, we've said enough about him.
Which players were they Thry? ???
I can't think of any apart from Grigg and Jacobs who went home for greater opportunities
Bret Thornton wanted to go to Hawthorn but we finished last and told him that if he left we'd use pick one in the PSD on him. :P
Uh oh.....sorry, that was me....it certainly wasn't my intention to drop a grenade & run away ;)
It sort of grew legs.
who cares about grigg.We must beat saints this is our "line in the sand game" who ever wears the navy blue friday night has to give 110%
I think it was Robert Walls who said "Judge the quality of a team by the quality of it's bottom six as much as by the quality of its top six" or words to that effect.
Yes, good foot soldiers are important to support to the top players in the sides. Good, solid foot soldiers all the way down to player 22 makes you a very good side. That's what we lacked between 2009-12 when talking about our bottom 6 or 7. Makes a difference. The cream got us up there, the bottom 6 or 7 held us back.
Which players were they Thry? ???
I can't think of any apart from Grigg and Jacobs who went home for greater opportunities
Eddie Betts basically walked out (factors but considering money would have made him stay, I poo poo them, and say he walked).
Zach Tuohy wanted out.
Lachie Henderson wanted out.
Bryce Gibbs wanted out.
Jarrad Waite walked out.
Troy Menzel probably wanted out so we made the most of that scenario.
There was an agenda being pushed that Malthouse made some of them leave and that some of them were traded for the highest value possible, but in retrospect I don't buy it. I think all of them were simply taking the opportunities available to them, and the second an option came up they walked out the door.
Lets not pretend we wouldn't have kept these players. They were all part of the landscape at our club.
We have been a club of departures, and I think part of that equation was the way we pushed Josh Kennedy out the door for Chris Judd. You treat people like a commodity and the others learn a lesson. The rumours are that Kreuzer would have been gone but failed fitness tests at other clubs. They were right in the end. The bloke breaks down as much as Josh Fraser did and would have been considered a wipe out.
http://www.afl.com.au/news/2018-07-09/mccartin-in-moon-boot-will-miss-blues-clash#/
Phillips injured and Casboult didn't play on the weekend after being dropped so surely McKay plays this week, if not you have to think that we're just marking time until Lukosius.
http://
http://www.afl.com.au/news/2018-07-09/mccartin-in-moon-boot-will-miss-blues-clash#/
Saints have been wrecked by injury and have nothing up forward, Charlie Curnow should kick 5 plus this week and be the leading forward on the ground.....
http://
Saints have been wrecked by injury and have nothing up forward, Charlie Curnow should kick 5 plus this week and be the leading forward on the ground.....
Membry and Billings have hurt us in the past and we haven't been able to get a handle on Steven.
http://
Saints have been wrecked by injury and have nothing up forward, Charlie Curnow should kick 5 plus this week and be the leading forward on the ground.....
Leading forward?
He'll be the only forward on the ground.
Phillips injured and Casboult didn't play on the weekend after being dropped so surely McKay plays this week, if not you have to think that we're just marking time until Lukosius.
McKay or Kerr at least.
Idiots probably go and pick Lobbe.
Membry and Billings have hurt us in the past and we haven't been able to get a handle on Steven.
Membrey kicks straight so he doesnt need many touches to hurt you but without the other supporting forwards he has been struggling to get the ball and Billings has
been out of form for most of the season but I take your point he needs minding.
Steven is probably the one who we need to put more work into and Seb Ross.....the little kid Gresham has also been kicking goals and I reckon they might line him up at FF on Jones in a repeat
of the Nathan Buckley pet move of rotating smalls at FF in an effort to exploit Jones, Rowe etc lack of pace, agility.
I still think we can beat the Saints given the two best players on the ground are Cripps and C. Curnow...both should dominate given the lack of opposition and guide us to victory...
If we lose to Skilda thats about as low as we get IMO and will require the club to act either on the coaching staff or playing list severely at trade time.....
Membrey kicks straight so he doesnt need many touches to hurt you but without the other supporting forwards he has been struggling to get the ball and Billings has
been out of form for most of the season but I take your point he needs minding.
Steven is probably the one who we need to put more work into and Seb Ross.....the little kid Gresham has also been kicking goals and I reckon they might line him up at FF on Jones in a repeat
of the Nathan Buckley pet move of rotating smalls at FF in an effort to exploit Jones, Rowe etc lack of pace, agility.
I still think we can beat the Saints given the two best players on the ground are Cripps and C. Curnow...both should dominate given the lack of opposition and guide us to victory...
If we lose to Skilda thats about as low as we get IMO and will require the club to act either on the coaching staff or playing list severely at trade time.....
I think we should too unless we go with that idiotic game plan again that allowed Brisbane to have 309 uncontested possession and 24 marks inside 50. Not a game plan we understand too well.
Membrey kicks straight so he doesnt need many touches to hurt you but without the other supporting forwards he has been struggling to get the ball and Billings has
been out of form for most of the season but I take your point he needs minding.
Steven is probably the one who we need to put more work into and Seb Ross.....the little kid Gresham has also been kicking goals and I reckon they might line him up at FF on Jones in a repeat
of the Nathan Buckley pet move of rotating smalls at FF in an effort to exploit Jones, Rowe etc lack of pace, agility.
I still think we can beat the Saints given the two best players on the ground are Cripps and C. Curnow...both should dominate given the lack of opposition and guide us to victory...
If we lose to Skilda thats about as low as we get IMO and will require the club to act either on the coaching staff or playing list severely at trade time.....
If Weitering and Marchbank both miss it will be a very weak side that we put on the park, St Kilda will need to be every bit as weak as you say.
The only decent player I can think of who might be a possible is Byrne, McKay probably for Phillips but then it's O'Shea or Mullet again.
There's no scope to drop anyone after such a spiritless performance, players are getting games by default.
We aren't in a good place.
Am i missing something with Byrne?
Every man and his dog seemed to think he was a walk up start to take over the docherty role.
Yes, he's been injured, but he did SFA when he actually got a chance to play.
Am i missing something with Byrne?
Every man and his dog seemed to think he was a walk up start to take over the docherty role.
Yes, he's been injured, but he did SFA when he actually got a chance to play.
Agree...turnover merchant and loose defender.......be a delist for me....
Am i missing something with Byrne?
Every man and his dog seemed to think he was a walk up start to take over the docherty role.
Yes, he's been injured, but he did SFA when he actually got a chance to play.
Was much more impressive in 2015 before he got injured, will be interesting to see what he can produce if retained but I have Williamson miles ahead of him.
Am i missing something with Byrne?
Every man and his dog seemed to think he was a walk up start to take over the docherty role.
Yes, he's been injured, but he did SFA when he actually got a chance to play.
He's first year back after a significant set back, and looked ok taking players on just opposition was prepared and expected it and got the balance between defence and offence wrong and then he got injured.
As it turns out he's another one who's injury prone.
For someone who didn't have a significant injury he's missed a lot of footy. Sure he wrecked his knee a couple years back and has been so so ever since.
It's amazing we could have used Dylan Buckley this season.
Agree...turnover merchant and loose defender.......be a delist for me....
Don't think he'll make it now.
I'm not willing to throw in the towel with Byrne yet. But he does have some work to do. Most of it is simply game awareness and that comes from being on the field. Unfortunately he is fragile, like too many of our players.
I'm not willing to throw in the towel with Byrne yet. But he does have some work to do. Most of it is simply game awareness and that comes from being on the field. Unfortunately he is fragile, like too many of our players.
That's his big drawback and it will sap his confidence eventually if it hasn't already.
I'm not willing to throw in the towel with Byrne yet. But he does have some work to do. Most of it is simply game awareness and that comes from being on the field. Unfortunately he is fragile, like too many of our players.
I think that he's a rare talent, quick, tough, good skills, naturally attacking and beautifully balanced, unfortunately his body might let him down.
When fit he'd be an automatic selection if I was picking the side.
Am i missing something with Byrne?
Every man and his dog seemed to think he was a walk up start to take over the docherty role.
Yes, he's been injured, but he did SFA when he actually got a chance to play.
He's potentially a very good player but Docherty is in another class.
I think that he's a rare talent, quick, tough, good skills, naturally attacking and beautifully balanced, unfortunately his body might let him down.
When fit he'd be an automatic selection if I was picking the side.
Has zero awareness and gets caught too often for mine.
Has zero awareness and gets caught too often for mine.
He's played 17 games.
He's played 17 games.
...and how many good ones?
He's turning 24 in Dec.
How much longer can we afford to wait with him? He is supposed to be entering his prime years now and we still don't know if he'll even make it.
He's turning 24 in Dec.
If those who know believe that he has what it takes, but only needs continuity of games, then we keep him because he is right in the age bracket we are missing.
If those who know believe that he has what it takes, but only needs continuity of games, then we keep him because he is right in the age bracket we are missing.
Dean Rice was 25 when we picked him up after the Saints de-listed him.....after 2 knee injuries, 1 reco....we all know what happened in his first game for us. He went on to play 118 of the toughest, hardest & most valuable games for us after he was 26.
We used to be a club that stuck with blokes who were the right type of players.
Hope we can be again.
cheers
...and how many good ones?
He's turning 24 in Dec.
How much longer can we afford to wait with him? He is supposed to be entering his prime years now and we still don't know if he'll even make it.
He'll survive purely because we are bad enough that he's ahead of others at this stage of the game.
He's played 17 games.
He needs to get an extended injury free run before anyone can really assess whether he'll 'make it' surely?
Contracted till end of 2019.
But clearly good enough to retain on the list i.e. plenty of nuff nuffs will be chopped before him.
...and how many good ones?
He's turning 24 in Dec.
How much longer can we afford to wait with him? He is supposed to be entering his prime years now and we still don't know if he'll even make it.
He's averaging around 15 touches a game and generally uses the ball very well, outstanding figures for the first 17 games by any standards and even more so when you consider that he grew up with another code.
The club extended his contract by two years when he was sidelined with a knee reco, so either they know talent when they see it or they don't, and if they don't then we have much bigger problems than Ciaran Byrne.
If those who know believe that he has what it takes, but only needs continuity of games, then we keep him because he is right in the age bracket we are missing.
We've trusted, 'those in the know' before.
We've had 45 delistings in the past 3 years or so.
Sometimes 'those in the know' don't know $h1t. :-\
We've trusted, 'those in the know' before.
We've had 45 delistings in the past 3 years or so.
Sometimes 'those in the know' don't know $h1t. :-\
Yep.
This needs to be less emotional and more critical. Ciaran is a nice guy. Convert from another code, has been extremely unlucky, and irrespective of where he sits age wise, is simply another sub 50 gamer who wont make it to 50 games next season even with an injury free run at it. He shows the requisite qualities to persist with, but thats only one part of this equation.
Going forward, do we gain more from keeping him than losing him?
i.e. his going will free up a list spot to be used for Player x.
Until we know what player x looks like, he stays.
Part of that decision making will be who else goes, and sometimes players move on you are not anticipating moving on in some scenarios (Clay Smith just retired after yet another knee injury).
Does Simpson play on next season? We need him, but he could very well pull the pin.
Does Rowe go on next season? 100 games, and moving forward there are lots of kids vying for his spot, but we need ruck insurance. Id say he stays.
Levi? Does he decide this is too hard and finally gets a gig elsewhere? Others may decide he could be a handy acquisition in another team, and if they miss Tom Lynch, they might want a big forward with sticky fingers (forget value, him leaving frees a list spot).
ACOS? Retirement?
Mullet? Crap?
O Shea? Ditto?
Kerridge? Done?
Lang? Ordinary?
Lobbe? Not up to it?
Phillips? In demand?
Kreuzer? Broken?
N. Graham? Gone?
Thomas? Tired and done?
Then there are the kids who aren't kicking on either:
JSOS
Cunningham
Then there are all the other clubs looking at our list, and seeing value in a target that is currently in struggle town with us or perhaps simply wants to leave us ala Shaun Grigg.
If many of the above list end up leaving at seasons end, we have to work really hard to replace them with prospects and we have no idea what they look like.
I have a better opinion of Lang than some on here, I think that with a full pre season and more games under his belt he'll be a solid player.
There's absolutely nothing to gain by cutting someone like Byrne and he's contracted anyway so the point is moot.
Thomas is playing good football and looks the fittest he has in years, Kreuzer is required without a doubt.
Graham, Mullet and O'Shea seem to be surplus, Kerridge and Lamb are borderline, Phillips isn't much good at the best of times and he's perpetually injured, Alex Silvagni is probably finished and Rowe isn't far off it.
There's plenty of scope to bring in new players without cutting some who can actually play the game.
He's averaging around 15 touches a game and generally uses the ball very well, outstanding figures for the first 17 games by any standards and even more so when you consider that he grew up with another code.
The club extended his contract by two years when he was sidelined with a knee reco, so either they know talent when they see it or they don't, and if they don't then we have much bigger problems than Ciaran Byrne.
Yep. Byrne's a keeper.
Am i missing something with Byrne?
Every man and his dog seemed to think he was a walk up start to take over the docherty role.
Yes, he's been injured, but he did SFA when he actually got a chance to play.
No, I agree. Ive never seen anything from him that makes me think he can play.
I cannot understand for the life of me, why he is still on our list.
No, I agree. Ive never seen anything from him that makes me think he can play.
I cannot understand for the life of me, why he is still on our list.
x3...I said I would delist him previously...
Byrne was a very nice kick, but I think that has diminished over the years.
He had great acceleration and top speed, but again, not sure if it remains, or if it will ever be the same, but it is something we lack.
It's all ifs, buts and maybes, and a little sad really but AFL is a tough business that takes no prisoners!
Byrne was a very nice kick, but I think that has diminished over the years.
He had great acceleration and top speed, but again, not sure if it remains, or if it will ever be the same, but it is something we lack.
It's all ifs, buts and maybes, and a little sad really but AFL is a tough business that takes no prisoners!
I won't be surprised if he's in the side this week, the club has a high opinion of him.
The latest news is that Phillips is done for the season.
Marchbank, Weitering and Simpson face tests and none have been ruled out, which probably means that none of them will play.
The latest news is that Phillips is done for the season.
During the game it was reported as a knee, but watching it looked to me like he had done an abductor.
Hamstring according to AFL website
Hamstring according to AFL website
The old miss the goal pulled a hammy trick!
Sorry for being cynical, across all games I saw a few of those last weekend, even a Warnock type miss with delayed onset wobbliness! :o
I've a mate that calls it ruckmen's giraffe syndrome, it takes a moment for the signal to get to the head from the rest, or vice versa! ;D
The old miss the goal pulled a hammy trick!
Sorry for being cynical, across all games I saw a few of those last weekend, even a Warnock type miss with delayed onset wobbliness! :o
I've a mate that calls it ruckmen's giraffe syndrome, it takes a moment for the signal to get to the head from the rest, or vice versa! ;D
Actually a hammy tendon, which is alot more of an issue.
Means we bring back Levi, probably not yet, or one of McKay or Kerr, preferable for the rest of the year.
Our idiot selection committee will probably pick Lobbe...lol.
Actually a hammy tendon, which is alot more of an issue.
Must have been that kick because he virtually walked straight off!
Means we bring back Levi, probably not yet, or one of McKay or Kerr, preferable for the rest of the year.
Our idiot selection committee will probably pick Lobbe...lol.
Aints only have Longer, and they have just lost McCartin so they'll probably go small.
Do we get hold of them if we go tall, would we win enough clearances, is Carlisle back?
In the midfield I thought the Aints did better than us against Port, but I keep in mind any team that plays after facing Cripps in the midfield is sore.
Otherwise the stats seem to suggest we have a draw, I wonder what the odds are?
Means we bring back Levi, probably not yet, or one of McKay or Kerr, preferable for the rest of the year.
Our idiot selection committee will probably pick Lobbe...lol.
If we play Levi after dropping him and him not having a VFL game the match committee's credibility would be shot.
McKay or Kerr surely must play, who knows what we'll do if the other three don't come up.
They all play in the back half so I can feel another O'Shea and Mullet coming on.
Just saw an interview with Marchbank, said hes seeing a cardiologist tonight, but wasn't worried about it because "its happened before"? i didn't know he had this recurring problem?
If we play Levi after dropping him and him not having a VFL game the match committee's credibility would be shot.
McKay or Kerr surely must play, who knows what we'll do if the other three don't come up.
They all play in the back half so I can feel another O'Shea and Mullet coming on.
Harry should play every game from this point on in 2018....
Harry should play every game from this point on in 2018....
x2....Got nothing to lose and everything to gain... good for 2 goals a game....no brainer IMO.
Essendon kept playing Joe Daniher even when he performed in a ludicrous manner, we need to get games into Mckay, Kerr.
We got pumped by Brisbane...how can it get worse.....?
x2....Got nothing to lose and everything to gain... good for 2 goals a game....no brainer IMO.
Essendon kept playing Joe Daniher even when he performed in a ludicrous manner, we need to get games into Mckay, Kerr.
We got pumped by Brisbane...how can it get worse.....?
Personally I’d prefer non negotiable conditions, but I’ll conceed that the years probably gone beyond that.
Yet still, I’m not worried so much about kicks marks and goals, but tackles and hitting packs with intent.
Just saw an interview with Marchbank, said hes seeing a cardiologist tonight, but wasn't worried about it because "its happened before"? i didn't know he had this recurring problem?
I'd send them all to the cardiologist!
I'd send them all to the cardiologist!
They have achieved so much they should be applauded, I dare you try and be an elite athlete with a pea-heart and see how far you get! ;D
(A accept that was a bit distasteful, but we all have good and bad days!)
Harry should play every game from this point on in 2018....
If he was going to be selected you would have thought that it would have been last week, there's obviously something going on there that we supporters know nothing about.
The media are beating it up, who motivates them, and why?
McKay is +200cm, fast moving and almost 100kg if not more, and had zero marks in his last game in almost perfect conditions on a narrow ground that forces players to lead up the corridor!
Fans talk about his goals, but in reality several of them came through roving to other players, that is not what you want from your 200cm x 100kg KPP!
Further more, he's been a lucky recipient of a number of goals through free kicks and 50m penalties, some of them unrelated to anything he did, and by team standards would be goals attributable to Lamb, SPS or Thomas!
When someone like Maher bangs on about McKay in the media, does he really want him in the team, or is he trying to beat up his worth as trade bait?
I have been saying for a while, as have others, that there is something going on behind the scenes which explains why he isn't getting a game. Whether it be due to attitude, not meeting KPIs or something else, we just don't know.
Obviously the media are none the wiser, although the cynic in me would say they know exactly what's going on and just want to make trouble. Unfortunately the club are damned if they do, damned if they don't. If they come out and say McKay isn't doing what he's told, or he has a poor attitude, then it seems very harsh to publicly humiliate a 20 yr old guy, and may be poor for his development. If they stay silent, fans and media criticise them for not playing a seemingly good option.
I have been saying for a while, as have others, that there is something going on behind the scenes which explains why he isn't getting a game. Whether it be due to attitude, not meeting KPIs or something else, we just don't know.
Obviously the media are none the wiser, although the cynic in me would say they know exactly what's going on and just want to make trouble. Unfortunately the club are damned if they do, damned if they don't. If they come out and say McKay isn't doing what he's told, or he has a poor attitude, then it seems very harsh to publicly humiliate a 20 yr old guy, and may be poor for his development. If they stay silent, fans and media criticise them for not playing a seemingly good option.
This detail gets fed to the media by someone, it's not an accident, the player himself, the players manager, a family member, another clubs list manager, a disgruntled support(Someone of note), a Carlton staffer, another Carlton player. At other times it can be purely a guess, but in this case as fans we know there have been rumors, the public see and hear stuff.
And you are right the club cannot win, the best they can do is find a way to shut it down, if they are scurrilous the best way to address it may be to have McKay himself call out the bullsh1t by fronting the media! But if he's is even slightly disingenuous they will rip him apart!
For what it's worth I agree with your perception, it appears is something not right between the club(As in coaches, players and Admin) and McKay! We know there have been rumors around for some time about off-field issues, but again we do not know if they are a cause or an effect.
Some will never accept McKay laughing in the stand last weekend, to some extremists he signed his death warrant that day no matter what the circumstance!
The laughing in the stands doesn't worry me too much.
He looked like he was embarrassed to be on the big screen, and really, does it matter if he was laughing?
Like someone said, people even have a laugh at a funeral. (not specifically aimed at you LP)
The laughing in the stands doesn't worry me too much.
He looked like he was embarrassed to be on the big screen, and really, does it matter if he was laughing?
Like someone said, people even have a laugh at a funeral. (not specifically aimed at you LP)
The trouble is it's like Barrett claiming his laughter at Barry Hall was an uncomfortable laugh.
The effects of Pareidolia come into play. You've been told it's an uncomfortable laugh before you even look at the video, so you think it's an uncomfortable laugh, you cannot unlearn the prior information. It's like the tabloid reporter telling you just look at this slimy person in the following video, you'll watch it and determine the subject is a creep. See the face of god in this piece of toast, hear the word Yanny or Laurel. Some of you may recall a famous episode of The Simpsons that made an issue of how this works!
It happens for speech, vision, touch and written word.
Barrett relied on that which is why he got on the front foot before most people heard the audio. It's a common media trick, and it's used in print and broadcast media. It can be as simple as the choice of song they play before a story is reported, and marketing people have known about those effects for decades!
The people who watched the video and saw McKay laughing at the team's efforts, will forever look at the video and see McKay laughing at the team's efforts! The people who heard that McKay laughed at the teams effort before they watched the video, are more likely to agree with that perspective. The people who heard McKay laughed uncomfortably about being on the big screen, are more than likely to agree with that!
The tv thing was a furthy.
Leave it in bullcrap land where it belongs.
Read the article on the second to last page in the HUN about why Harry isn't playing.
He isn't working hard enough, isn't applying enough pressure, isn't contested marking, and isn't scoring heavily in his last few outings in the VFL (scored 1 goal from 3 games and averaging about 12 posessions and less than 1 tackle a game) AND he hasnt played much footy over the last 5 weeks because we have had a couple of buy's in the VFL.
The club has pointed to his limited preparation and lack of pre season for reasons but those numbers are pretty damning.
If we play Levi after dropping him and him not having a VFL game the match committee's credibility would be shot.
McKay or Kerr surely must play, who knows what we'll do if the other three don't come up.
They all play in the back half so I can feel another O'Shea and Mullet coming on.
Im not sure. I think a 100 gamer getting dropped gets the message, without necessarily having to go to the VFL to redeem himself, particularly considering the personnel available to take the available positions.
That being said, I think its time we played Kerr, Mckay or Lobbe instead, but I still think Levi can come back in, and whilst he wasnt very good against Port Adelaide, Levi straightens us up and allows Curnow to go roaming in ways the others don't.
My bigger concern is whether or not Simpson comes back in. If he plays there is no way that last debacle occurs. I dont think we can afford to play without him.
The trouble is it's like Barrett claiming his laughter at Barry Hall was an uncomfortable laugh.
The effects of Pareidolia come into play. You've been told it's an uncomfortable laugh before you even look at the video, so you think it's an uncomfortable laugh, you cannot unlearn the prior information. It's like the tabloid reporter telling you just look at this slimy person in the following video, you'll watch it and determine the subject is a creep. See the face of god in this piece of toast, hear the word Yanny or Laurel. Some of you may recall a famous episode of The Simpsons that made an issue of how this works!
It happens for speech, vision, touch and written word.
Barrett relied on that which is why he got on the front foot before most people heard the audio. It's a common media trick, and it's used in print and broadcast media. It can be as simple as the choice of song they play before a story is reported, and marketing people have known about those effects for decades!
The people who watched the video and saw McKay laughing at the team's efforts, will forever look at the video and see McKay laughing at the team's efforts! The people who heard that McKay laughed at the teams effort before they watched the video, are more likely to agree with that perspective. The people who heard McKay laughed uncomfortably about being on the big screen, are more than likely to agree with that!
I saw it live. I am pretty sure the first time it was shown it wasn't even commented on by the w4nkers in commentary. So no interference in my perception there. But I take your point about peoples perceptions being open to influence.
I saw it live. I am pretty sure the first time it was shown it wasn't even commented on by the w4nkers in commentary. So no interference in my perception there. But I take your point about peoples perceptions being open to influence.
Now extend this to the way The Pudding Face Twins get on the front foot when their player is heading to the tribunal.
Think about this in the context of Gloch and Dangerfield making public statements prior to the Curnow case reviews. There is a reason contempt of court is an offense, and Gloch is basically guilty of it, but then he probably "Is the Court" in that case because he hires and fires all the relevant actors!
I've long had a problem with our clubs marketing and media crew, I'm not sure we are professional enough, we are certainly passive and not proactive!
One change for certain come tomorrow night: Andrew Phillips will miss the remainder of the season. >:( Just when he was showing something. :(
Lobbe played his best game for the Northern Blues last time we played, but I'd much prefer to see McKay come in. Considering how rarely I get what I want when it comes to ins and outs, I'm not holding my breath.
Simpson is no certainty to return, but I can hope that he can. We need him down back.
Marchbank is no certainty to be available either, but he is in the picture. I don't think we could risk him: we certainly cannot have him not see the game out. As it was, he started very well last week, to disappear totally from the game after quarter time. Not match fit in my not always humble opinion.
Who to bring in? Good question. Not many good answers.
One change for certain come tomorrow night: Andrew Phillips will miss the remainder of the season. >:( Just when he was showing something. :(
Lobbe played his best game for the Northern Blues last time we played, but I'd much prefer to see McKay come in. Considering how rarely I get what I want when it comes to ins and outs, I'm not holding my breath.
Simpson is no certainty to return, but I can hope that he can. We need him down back.
Marchbank is no certainty to be available either, but he is in the picture. I don't think we could risk him: we certainly cannot have him not see the game out. As it was, he started very well last week, to disappear totally from the game after quarter time. Not match fit in my not always humble opinion.
Who to bring in? Good question. Not many good answers.
Bolton was interviewed today. Simmo, Marchbank and McKay are playing.
Thats great news re the in's for this week
Thats great news re the in's for this week
Yes agree. Assuming Simmo and Marchy aren't being rushed back too soon.
Just hope McKays inclusion wasn't due to media pressure.
Just hope McKays inclusion wasn't due to media pressure.
That's very unlike us Deags.
Just hope McKays inclusion wasn't due to media pressure.
We all hope that, but consider our history......
I think it's probably fair to say that injuries are basically the dominant influence on Carlton's selection criteria, at the moment.
It would have been worse for us if they had brought Casboult back in after the talk around his omission.
Bolton was interviewed today. Simmo, Marchbank and McKay are playing.
The Cupboard really is bare!
An older statesmen a week after a calf scare.
A kid with heart arrhythmia.*
A KPP who spends all day roving.
* How was that gem of data this week, allegedly Marchbank has had these occurrences before during his AFL career, how can it be it's never been discussed? I realise these things can be managed, but was that industry knowledge before we traded for him, or was it another case of buyer beware!
Just hope McKays inclusion wasn't due to media pressure.
Bolton laid out clearly why he hasn't been playing in the interview he gave today, I honestly don't think that he takes any notice of the media.
He said that Phillips injury opened the door, make of it what you will and what it means for Casboult as well.
We need to find at least one more player because Wright and Weitering will both miss by the sounds of things, I'm hoping that it's Byrne rather than O'Shea, Mullet or Casboult.
Doh! Paddy Dow of course.
Cunningham is listed as 5 - 7 weeks, that's a heck of a hamstring injury.
I heard Bolton's interview and I call bollocks. Said Harry played 6 games, then went back to VFL, then got the flu and didn't train for a few weeks. There have been calls from everywhere to play him for the last month. If he had, or was recovering from, the flu, why wouldn't they just say so? Something going on here, but it aint the flu
The Cupboard really is bare!
An older statesmen a week after a calf scare.
A kid with heart arrhythmia.*
A KPP who spends all day roving.
* How was that gem of data this week, allegedly Marchbank has had these occurrences before during his AFL career, how can it be it's never been discussed? I realise these things can be managed, but was that industry knowledge before we traded for him, or was it another case of buyer beware!
I hope we're not feeding him those fcking caffeine tablets, just the thing to trigger a ticker event.
B
Dale Thomas Sam Rowe Jed Lamb
HB
Kade Simpson Liam Jones Caleb Marchbank
C
Zac Fisher Patrick Cripps Marc Murphy
HF
Jarrod Pickett Charlie Curnow Jarrod Garlett
F
Paddy Dow Harry McKay Sam Petrevski-Seton
FOL
Matthew Kreuzer Matthew Kennedy Ed Curnow
I/C
Lochie O'Brien Cameron Polson Jack Silvagni Matt Shaw
EMG
Cameron O'Shea Nick Graham Pat Kerr Levi Casboult
IN
Harry McKay Jarrod Garlett Kade Simpson Matt Shaw Paddy Dow
OUT
Andrew Phillips (Injured) Darcy Lang (Injured) Jacob Weitering (Injured) Matthew Wright (Managed) Nick Graham (Omitted)
More pace....plus Harry!
Alot better balanced line-up.
Alot better balanced line-up.
Agree - we're could definitely be in with a show (depending on game plan of course).
Going for the win this week ;)
Going for the win this week ;)
Yep, too many people sniffing around and onto SOS and his unbalanced player selections (to manipulate losses - doesn't take a lot of manipulating mind you!!). Gotta get them off the tanking trail... ;) ;) ;D
Matt Wright managed?
Matt Wright dropped......
That's what I would have said, call a spade a spade.
Matt Wright managed?
Bolton said it was 'general soreness'.
Alot better balanced line-up.
Very much so. Two talls out, one quick tall in. Two slow mids out for quicker blokes. Can afford to win this one without jeopardizing our first pick... ;) ;D :P
Bolton said it was 'general soreness'.
This might explain the drop off in form.
CARLTON
B: Dale Thomas, Sam Rowe, Jed Lamb
HB: Kade Simpson, Liam Jones, Caleb Marchbank
C: Zac Fisher, Patrick Cripps, Marc Murphy
HF: Jarrod Pickett, Charlie Curnow, Jarrod Garlett
F: Paddy Dow, Harry McKay, Sam Petrevski-Seton
R: Matthew Kreuzer, Matthew Kennedy, Ed Curnow
Int: Lochie O'Brien, Cameron Polson, Jack Silvagni, Matt Shaw
Emg: Cameron O'Shea, Nick Graham, Pat Kerr, Levi Casboult
IN: Kade Simpson, Jarrod Garlett, Paddy Dow, Harry McKay, Matt Shaw
OUT: Jacob Weitering (Injured), Matthew Wright (Managed), Nick Graham (Omitted), Andrew Phillips (Injured), Darcy Lang (Injured)
NEW: Matt Shaw
I probably would not have played Shaw, but ...
Lang's injury was kept very quiet. I hadn't heard that he was even in doubt. Not that I'm disappointed, but that is another tale.
Nick Graham? Last in, first dropped, his time is up.
Cam Polson had better buy a tattslotto ticket, his pretty lucky to be there. Hopefully he will be played in a negative role: I think it would do him good.
ST KILDA
B: Jarryn Geary, Jake Carlisle, Jimmy Webster
HB: Daniel McKenzie, Sam Gilbert, Jack Newnes
C: Shane Savage, Jack Steele, Jack Sinclair
HF: Jack Billings, Tim Membrey, Luke Dunstan
F: Jade Gresham, Rowan Marshall, Maverick Weller
R: Tom Hickey, Sebastian Ross, Jack Steven
Int: Hunter Clark, Jack Lonie, David Armitage, Ed Phillips
Emg: Hugh Goddard, Brandon White, Bailey Rice, Ben Paton
IN: Jake Carlisle, Rowan Marshall, Tom Hickey, Jack Lonie, Ed Phillips
OUT: Paddy McCartin (Injured), Billy Longer (Omitted), Darragh Joyce (Omitted), Nathan Wright (Injured), Logan Austin (Injured)
Longer being out is good for us; he usually plays well against us. However, so does Hickey. :( No Rice?
Bolton said it was 'general soreness'.
I'm a Matty Wright fan but he has been out of form and was very poor last week.....I'm going to call it dropped but I reckon Bolton is a fan of Wright and has
eased him out of the team rather than make him NB's fodder.
Needs a good finish to the season does Wright.....a few other clubs have some small forwards that might be on the market...ie Dahlhaus, Short, Lonie, Lloyd.....
Five changes again, very hard to build any system or consistency.
It will be interesting to see how we go up forward, McKay needs to work harder than he has so far and take some pressure off Charlie.
A win would surprise me, St Kilda will need to be off their game and we would need some improved efforts from our lesser lights like Pickett, Polson and Silvagni.
Graham seems to only get a game so we've got someone to drop, it must be disheartening for him.
Five changes again, very hard to build any system or consistency.
It will be interesting to see how we go up forward, McKay needs to work harder than he has so far and take some pressure off Charlie.
A win would surprise me, St Kilda will need to be off their game and we would need some improved efforts from our lesser lights like Pickett, Polson and Silvagni.
Graham seems to only get a game so we've got someone to drop, it must be disheartening for him.
Saints are rubbish and injury ravaged, they dont have a Cripps or C. Curnow....if we cant beat them at such a low point we really do need to question whats happening at the club IMO.
Saints are rubbish and injury ravaged, they dont have a Cripps or C. Curnow....if we cant beat them at such a low point we really do need to question whats happening at the club IMO.
They knocked off Melbourne a couple of weeks ago who beat us by 100 points or more.
Make no mistake EB, this is a poor Carlton side.
I'm hopeful but far from confident.
They knocked off Melbourne a couple of weeks ago who beat us by 100 points or more.
Make no mistake EB, this is a poor Carlton side.
I'm hopeful but far from confident.
Dees are not a good yard stick though. They are bipolar. Very much Jeckyll and Hyde.
Saints running players with a smaller forward line might chop us up. Cripps isn't quick, the Saints will fancy their chances of dominating the midfield.
Dees are not a good yard stick though. They are bipolar. Very much Jeckyll and Hyde.
We, on the other hand, are a model of consistency.
Saints running players with a smaller forward line might chop us up. Cripps isn't quick, the Saints will fancy their chances of dominating the midfield.
They will if Bolton leaves a 20m gap for Hickey to tap to Steven running onto the ball.....or lets Billings run around without a man, or puts a banana like Shaw on Gresham..
Really scraping the bottom of the barrel to field a side this week, can't believe a couple are actually fit enough to play. Playing blokes from the VFL off a bye, really?
Expect to lose by 4-6 goals, we're simply out of troops.
Good to see Harry got a game after doing what the club said he needed to do and play excellent footy in the VFL... oh wait
Good to see Harry got a game after doing what the club said he needed to do and play excellent footy in the VFL... oh wait
Incredible isn't it?
Dees are not a good yard stick though. They are bipolar. Very much Jeckyll and Hyde.
There are more than a few in our side who wouldn't currently get a game at any other club in the AFL, it's the weakest Carlton side I can remember.
That said St Kilda are nothing flash and with Simpson back Murphy can go back into the guts, but everything will need to go right for us and if we have three or four passengers again we're sunk.
Good to see Harry got a game after doing what the club said he needed to do and play excellent footy in the VFL... oh wait
Watch BB's presser, he explains it.
Watch BB's presser, he explains it.
Must've been all the smiling in the crowd he was doing. ;D
Somehow, I dont think we will win but you never know. We dont play Etihad well, Saints tend to get a hold of us for some reason and we are gun shy on a Friday night. But what I will almost guarantee is a far stronger effort than last week (wouldnt need to improve much to better that pathetic effort). If we dont attack the man and footy ferociously tomorrow night for 4 qtrs, I will be gutted. There is no option other than provide a very strong contest. The footy world is watching.
There are more than a few in our side who wouldn't currently get a game at any other club in the AFL, it's the weakest Carlton side I can remember.
That said St Kilda are nothing flash and with Simpson back Murphy can go back into the guts, but everything will need to go right for us and if we have three or four passengers again we're sunk.
Excluding the kids, of which there are many, only Murphy and Cripps would get a gig elsewhere...
Ed C? Maybe, just...somewhere.
And we always have that many passengers, minimum! Sadly.
They will if Bolton leaves a 20m gap for Hickey to tap to Steven running onto the ball.....or lets Billings run around without a man, or puts a banana like Shaw on Gresham..
If that becomes Saturday's headlines I'll loose all faith in our coaches.
Must've been all the smiling in the crowd he was doing. ;D
He was listed as an emergency last week and travelled with the team.
I don't know what fans expect sometimes.
Shaw is an interesting selection, like Polson before him, his form had peaked and tapered off before they actually gave him a run! Seriously, what is with this?
He has a bit of pace, so it will be interesting to see what he can do on Docklands fast dry surface. He won't find a better ground to suit his game style, or a better team to match up on because the Aints while very fast are also quite small!
Shaw is an interesting selection, like Polson before him, his form had peaks and tapered off before they actually gave him a run! Seriously, what is with this?
He has a bit of pace, so it will be interesting to see what he can do on Docklands fast dry surface. He won't find a better ground to suit his game style, or a better team to match up on because the Aints while very fast are also quite small!
In isolation it doesn't mean alot, but when you put this phenomemon together with Polson getting a 2 year contract extension on the back of 0 proven ability to play footy at the highest level, the only explanation I can come up with is that these blokes are doing everything possible to make something of themselves, whilst others are not, which earns them a game, (and in Polson's case, a contract).
It means we have blokes not applying themselves appropriately at Carlton.
This is why we have been this poor. Is that a coaching issue? Make up your own mind, but you can't motivate people if they are not the types to drive themselves. They will do whats easy rather than whats necessary.
Excluding the kids, of which there are many, only Murphy and Cripps would get a gig elsewhere...
Ed C? Maybe, just...somewhere.
And we always have that many passengers, minimum! Sadly.
Kreuzer would get a game at most clubs.
In isolation it doesn't mean alot, but when you put this phenomemon together with Polson getting a 2 year contract extension on the back of 0 proven ability to play footy at the highest level, the only explanation I can come up with is that these blokes are doing everything possible to make something of themselves, whilst others are not, which earns them a game, (and in Polson's case, a contract).
It means we have blokes not applying themselves appropriately at Carlton.
This is why we have been this poor. Is that a coaching issue? Make up your own mind, but you can't motivate people if they are not the types to drive themselves. They will do whats easy rather than whats necessary.
Let's just say superficially, there seems to be a lack of integrity in our MC selections when guys playing well cannot get a game, and yet when they are struggling to get a touch they get the nod! I'm not going to make any accusations or draw conclusions about why this happens, but again superficially there seems to be a trending connection and pattern!
It means we have blokes not applying themselves appropriately at Carlton.
I don't know how you reach that conclusion.
I don't know how you reach that conclusion.
It's not unreasonable to conclude this, that players in poor form but making the effort would get the nod over players in better form who seem to lack the application.
FWIW, while assisting at TAC Cup Dev level I've seen would be champions of the game cut from squads because they lacked intensity at training despite being among the BoGs on match days!
I'm not saying that it's fair or correct, but it seems to be a thing that coaches look for!
The real worry for me is that when injuries or poor form result in someone like McKay getting a run despite apparently being in cruise mode at VFL level! IMHO McKay deserves a run this week even less than SoJ had deserved a return from the AFL, and that is saying something, because young SoJ had really only displayed his midfield ignorance! That sort of selection sends mixed messages and can be very disruptive to a club!
Must've been all the smiling in the crowd he was doing. ;D
He's improved so much in 1 week I reckon we should send him back up to the Gabba this week to sit in the stand and watch another game. Clearly it's improving our young players performance.
Unbelievable that they did that. Drop Casboult and play a 27 year old backup ruckman out of position as a key forward and have your gun #10 draft pick full forward sitting in the stands watching!
What a moronic decision that was.
He's improved so much in 1 week I reckon we should send him back up to the Gabba this week to sit in the stand and watch another game. Clearly it's improving our young players performance.
Unbelievable that they did that. Drop Casboult and play a 27 year old backup ruckman out of position as a key forward and have your gun #10 draft pick full forward sitting in the stands watching!
What a moronic decision that was.
Especially given that Hipwood who is so similar to Harry did so well for Brisbane.......and Brisbane's defense isnt overly tall or stacked with star power, perfect game for Harry to play in....
Think Stefan Martin worried the coaches box so much they lost sight of having to score goals and went with the genuine ruck backup.
IMHO McKay deserves a run this week even less than SoJ had deserved a return from the AFL, and that is saying something, because young SoJ had really only displayed his midfield ignorance! That sort of selection sends mixed messages and can be very disruptive to a club!
I think that on forums like this people tend to add two plus two and come up with five from time to time.
Shaw is playing this week, to the best of my knowledge he's an average player and his VFL form hasn't been anything to get excited about.
Pickett played a reasonable game in the VFL a few weeks ago but struggled badly in the seniors last week, Polson really hasn't shown anything much at senior level so far but he's playing tonight.
We are a poorly performed team with some significant injuries, the bottom of the barrel is being well and truly scraped.
Many of our seemingly mysterious selections are simply down to a lack of options.
Down on troops but the obvious backups in OShea, Mullet and Graham are not playing...
St. Kilda vs Carlton (Games played this year/Total games played in career thus far):
B---Jarryn Geary (13/176)-----Jake Carlisle (11/118)----Jimmy Webster (12/80)
HB----Daniel McKenzie (6/27)---Sam Gilbert (6/203)---Jack Newnes (15/128)
C--- Shane Savage (15/138)----Jack Steele (14/51)----Jack Sinclair (13/57)
HF---Jack Billings (14/78)-------Tim Membrey (13/63)---Luke Dunstan (12/81)
F-----Jade Gresham (15/55)--- Rowan Marshall(6/7)----Maverick Weller(10/118)
Fol---Tom Hickey (9/75)--------Sebastian Ross(15/96)---Jack Steven (15/169)
I/C---Hunter Clark (12/12), Jack Lonie (5/44), David Armitage (9/161), Ed Phillips (5/5)
Emg
Hugh Goddard (0/9), Brandon White (6/10), Bailey Rice (6/6), Ben Paton (0/0)
Carlton
B---Dale Thomas (14/232)----Sam Rowe(11/93)---Jed Lamb(12/60)
HB---Kade Simpson(14/300)---Liam Jones(15/110)--Caleb Marchbank(5/28)
C----Zac Fisher(15/32)----Patrick Cripps(15/74)----Marc Murphy(6/242)
HF---Jarrod Pickett (2/12)---Charlie Curnow(13/40)---Jarrod Garlett (10/27)
F---Paddy Dow(14/14)--Harry McKay(6/8)---Sam Petrevski-Seton (15/35)
Fol--Matthew Kreuzer(11/172)---Matthew Kennedy(8/27)---Ed Curnow (14/136)
I/C---Lochie O'Brien(11/11)---Cameron Polson(5/6)---Jack Silvagni(9/37)---Matt Shaw (0/102)
Emg: Cameron O'Shea (10/91), Nick Graham (7/45), Pat Kerr (4/4), Levi Casboult (9/103)
Statistical breakdown in games played (excluding emergencies):
0-50 games - Saints: 6 vs Blues: 12
50-100 games - Saints: 8 vs Blues: 3
100 - 150 games - Saints: 4, vs Blues: 4
150 - 200 games - Saints: 3 vs Blues: 1
200 - 250 games - Saints: 1 vs Blues: 1
250 - 300 games - Saints: 0 vs Blues: 0
300+ games - Saints: 0 vs Blues: 1
Of our sub 50 gamers 5 of them are yet to have played 1 full seasons worth of matches irrespective of how many years they have been on the list, and that is not due to lack of opportunity, but generally due to injuries.
Down on troops but the obvious backups in OShea, Mullet and Graham are not playing...
I'm not unhappy about that EB, if young players the likes of Polson and Silvagni don't eventually measure up then at least we won't die wondering, we know what the others can deliver.
Shaw is playing this week, to the best of my knowledge he's an average player and his VFL form hasn't been anything to get excited about.
I beg to differ.
I thought Shaw had quite a good VFL patch, partly from my direct observations and partly from mates reporting on matches, he was especially effective when Weitering was back in the magoos, run off him and worked well together, then Weitiering went back to AFL and Shaw copped an injury and hasn't been the same since which is why I have to question the timing. I realise there may be circumstances beyond the MCs control.
When SoJ got the recall from the magoos, in my opinion Polson was a mile ahead of him in terms of midfield influence and I also suspect kilometers covered per game. I would have said that in VFL SoJ was at best on par with Lang and neither of them set the world alight at VFL level! Many were very disappointed with Lang at VFL, but perhaps SoJ gets some slack because of his surname, if so I'm not sure that helps him because the reward might be unjustified! Yet when the crunch came SoJ came in and Polson was left languishing in the magoos for a few more weeks losing form, hopefully not losing heart! There was some irony we had Murphy out around that time, reducing our run, and we opted for SoJ over Polson.
Obviously having Cunningham missing hasn't helped, he was in reasonable form before injuries cruelled his season.
Of our regular AFL players, only Weitering has gone back and dominated at VFL, like an AFL player should. In that context, if McKay is kicking hard earned bags of 2 or 3 goals at AFL level, he should seriously be kicking bags of 6 or 8 at VFL, but he isn't and that is a tell!
Down on troops but the obvious backups in OShea, Mullet and Graham are not playing...
Club seen enough?
Club seen enough?
Yep.....got the crosshairs on them and I think we are down to trying anything that has 4 limbs and a pulse ie Shaw.....
Yep.....got the crosshairs on them and I think we are down to trying anything that has 4 limbs and a pulse ie Shaw.....
Shaw has mates at the Aints, do not be surprised to find this is an audition!
btw., A lot of talk about BB this week, but you wouldn't want to be Alan Richardson if we actually win, that would be his Ratten moment! :o
Some may think Richardson is off the hook after the Melbourne game, but that said more about Melbourne than the Aints! This week is probably the Aints last chance for a win in 2018!
I beg to differ.
I thought Shaw had quite a good VFL patch, partly from my direct observations and partly from mates reporting on matches, he was especially effective when Weitering was back in the magoos, run off him and worked well together, then Weitiering went back to AFL and Shaw copped an injury and hasn't been the same since which is why I have to question the timing. I realise there may be circumstances beyond the MCs control.
When SoJ got the recall from the magoos, in my opinion Polson was a mile ahead of him in terms of midfield influence and I also suspect kilometers covered per game. I would have said that in VFL SoJ was at best on par with Lang and neither of them set the world alight at VFL level! Many were very disappointed with Lang at VFL, but perhaps SoJ gets some slack because of his surname, if so I'm not sure that helps him because the reward might be unjustified! Yet when the crunch came SoJ came in and Polson was left languishing in the magoos for a few more weeks losing form, hopefully not losing heart! There was some irony we had Murphy out around that time, reducing our run, and we opted for SoJ over Polson.
Obviously having Cunningham missing hasn't helped, he was in reasonable form before injuries cruelled his season.
Of our regular AFL players, only Weitering has gone back and dominated at VFL, like an AFL player should. In that context, if McKay is kicking hard earned bags of 2 or 3 goals at AFL level, he should seriously be kicking bags of 6 or 8 at VFL, but he isn't and that is a tell!
You don't often see bags of 6 to 8 anywhere. Last game he went well, right up in the best players, took 8 marks even if it was just the one goal.
The NB's don't often kick 8 so I wouldn't be expecting one player to come in dominate so suddenly in such a $hit team. Kennedy was never doing that great in the VFL for Carlton but now he's an absolute star for the Eagles.
Seb Ross out for Saints, Bailey Rice in...we should win easily IMO...no excuses given the team we are playing is devoid of any star players.....
Seb Ross out for Saints, Bailey Rice in...we should win easily IMO...no excuses given the team we are playing is devoid of any star players.....
A big out - he always gets plenty of the ball for the Saints.
Ross out might have tipped the scales in our favour.
Would love us to kick 100 pts some how tonight.
Would love us to kick 100 pts some how tonight.
I'll be happy if we kick 50 and win.