Carlton Supporters Club

Princes Park => Robert Heatley Stand => Topic started by: crashlander on March 18, 2020, 08:32:10 pm

Title: AFL Rd 1 2020: Post Game Post Mortum: Carlton vs. Richmond
Post by: crashlander on March 18, 2020, 08:32:10 pm
Did we win yet?
Please release your emotions here.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2020: Post Game Post Mortum: Carlton vs. Richmond
Post by: laj on March 19, 2020, 10:06:55 pm
Our inability to cut sides up on the outside kills us. Great with contested possession but on the outside, no good. Just doesn't allow us easy ball inside 50. Richmond's ability to waltz through the corridor and set up an easy goal was just about the complete difference.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2020: Post Game Post Mortum: Carlton vs. Richmond
Post by: townsendcalling on March 19, 2020, 10:08:50 pm
Did Lynch get a kick??
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2020: Post Game Post Mortum: Carlton vs. Richmond
Post by: Gointocarlton on March 19, 2020, 10:13:31 pm
Did Lynch get a kick??
Obliterated by Weiters
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2020: Post Game Post Mortum: Carlton vs. Richmond
Post by: LoveNavy on March 19, 2020, 10:16:24 pm
Obliterated by Weiters

Yes. A standout was Weiters.
Shame about the zippy little guys.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2020: Post Game Post Mortum: Carlton vs. Richmond
Post by: IvanAwfulbigone on March 19, 2020, 10:16:51 pm
Did Lynch get a kick??
4 kicks, 0 marks. Our bogeyman in the past. Weitering had him COVID.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2020: Post Game Post Mortum: Carlton vs. Richmond
Post by: LoveNavy on March 19, 2020, 10:20:54 pm
Setterfield looked lost.
Cunningham got lost.
Hope they can work their way into form.
That said, must have been weird playing in virtual silence.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2020: Post Game Post Mortum: Carlton vs. Richmond
Post by: shawny on March 19, 2020, 10:26:22 pm
We fought it out but game was done at quarter time.

Same old same old - Cripps and daylight in the midfield.  No midfield depth got us again.
Won’t win many games when we still rely so much on Cripps. Can’t keep Fisher, Dow, Newnes, Setterfield and Cunningham in the one team when they do SFA -  issue is the cupboard is bare.

Martin was much better then I thought he would be so well done. Weitering was our best player imo. Casboult and Doc were also handy all night.

Unless our midfield kids take a few massive steps up which I can’t see happening this year we are still a bottom 2-4 team at best.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2020: Post Game Post Mortum: Carlton vs. Richmond
Post by: Gointocarlton on March 19, 2020, 10:27:12 pm
Yes. A standout was Weiters.
Shame about the zippy little guys.
Outstanding performance, especially early the way it was coming in. Jone packed his dacks, Weiters didnt. Their small fwds murdered us and set up the win. Bolton, Castagna, Rioli 9 goals btw them. Ouch
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2020: Post Game Post Mortum: Carlton vs. Richmond
Post by: Professer E on March 19, 2020, 10:30:36 pm
Our outside ball distributors - Setterfield,  Dow,  Fisher and Newman stunk.   To the point where I'd be happy if none played seniors again, ever.    Dow is clueless,  zero awareness, real worry that bloke.   These blokes can't get it,  can't use it and apply F all pressure on the other mob when they have  it.  Murphy did better,  he at least got the pill,  but his use stank.   Curnow tried but his use was awful.    So many ineffective players, can't carry so many passengers.

Big loss was Kreuzer,  if it's a foot that might be the end unfortunately.  Levi very serviceable,  at least gives us a presence around the ground.   Before getting injured Kreuzer looked cooked.

Plowman was hopelessly out pointed,  but at least we have Willo as cover.   I don't see how we're going to fix that midfield though,   it is so far off AFL standard it's embarrassing.  Time to give some of the supposedly talented kids a rocket.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2020: Post Game Post Mortum: Carlton vs. Richmond
Post by: townsendcalling on March 19, 2020, 10:32:19 pm
They are older, more mature and confident and adapted to the ‘conditions’ straight away. We were lost until we settled. Enough positives against a very, very good team. Martin, Weitering, Docherty, Cripps, Jones (after 1/4 time) Casboult (he was enormous) SPS off limited preparation, McGovern was forced to become a presence, Murphy worked hard. Silvagni and Cunningham did little but both ended up with their quota for the night.  If you’d been told that they’d kick the first 5 and Kruezer would be cooked in the first quarter, a 10 goals defeat would not have been a surprise. I think we’re on the right track......
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2020: Post Game Post Mortum: Carlton vs. Richmond
Post by: crashlander on March 19, 2020, 10:34:55 pm
It doesn't often happen that a team's season is over in the 1st quarter. However, if Kreuzer has broken his leg, then our season is done.
Our structural defects were on show: only one top ruckman, lack of depth in the midfield and not enough sharp small forwards.

Our tall forward can improve a lot, as the season goes on. Our ruck division, on the other hand, already looks like a point source error.
Our small forwards can improve, assuming Eddie can get fit. But our mids don't do enough (except for Cripps).
Our defence will improve as the season wears on.
Something to work with, perhaps, but our future looks grim.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2020: Post Game Post Mortum: Carlton vs. Richmond
Post by: rocky on March 19, 2020, 10:36:04 pm
Well I guess the positive is we played a hellava lot better after qtr time and if Jones takes his time and slots that last shot we could've been losers by only 2 goals! Who would have thunk it when they were over 50pts up.
Good job by the backline. They are not the problem. Weiters, Doc and Jones, I really thought did well. SPS good solid first game back. Simmo I'm a afraid is a liability. We have backups. Time to cut him loose.
Newnes not as bad as I thought he would be. Great first up for Martin. Levi was tremendous. Just busted his arse all night. Great game. He's turning into a real jack of all trades. Very frustrating for Kreuz. He was smashin them in the ruck. Father time has caught up with him. He looked so dejected. I feel for him.
Murphy made SO many mistakes. Cripps awesome. Ed serviceable, just can't really on his kicking.
Forward line was very poor I thought and continues to be our Achilles heel. Cunningham, waste of time. Dow, terrible. Setterfield back to his fumbling best. McG, doesn't do enough, but was probably 3 or 4 marks away from having an impact.
Fish, hmmm. Not sure.
At least we didn't fall away like we did in the practice matches.
Gives us some hope. If the season continues.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2020: Post Game Post Mortum: Carlton vs. Richmond
Post by: Professer E on March 19, 2020, 10:43:36 pm
I'd just about kill to get a draft freebie like Pickett... Fast,  heavy bodied,  balanced, aware in traffic,  clean hands  and a deadly user.   Instead we persist with crap trucks that tick none of those boxes and just run around fumbling, falling over,  making dumb errors, missing tackles and generally running around in a clueless manner.   And we wasted high draft picks on those blokes... Big clean out coming.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2020: Post Game Post Mortum: Carlton vs. Richmond
Post by: JonDorotich on March 19, 2020, 10:47:43 pm
Well I guess the positive is we played a hellava lot better after qtr time and if Jones takes his time and slots that last shot we could've been losers by only 2 goals! Who would have thunk it when they were over 50pts up.
Good job by the backline. They are not the problem. Weiters, Doc and Jones, I really thought did well. SPS good solid first game back. Simmo I'm a afraid is a liability. We have backups. Time to cut him loose.
Newnes not as bad as I thought he would be. Great first up for Martin. Levi was tremendous. Just busted his arse all night. Great game. He's turning into a real jack of all trades. Very frustrating for Kreuz. He was smashin them in the ruck. Father time has caught up with him. He looked so dejected. I feel for him.
Murphy made SO many mistakes. Cripps awesome. Ed serviceable, just can't really on his kicking.
Forward line was very poor I thought and continues to be our Achilles heel. Cunningham, waste of time. Dow, terrible. Setterfield back to his fumbling best. McG, doesn't do enough, but was probably 3 or 4 marks away from having an impact.
Fish, hmmm. Not sure.
At least we didn't fall away like we did in the practice matches.
Gives us some hope. If the season continues.

Agree with this post

To add to it, Murphy is really just a small forward now and his lack of physicality in the middle is hurting us over and over again. And all of Newman, Simpson, Dow and Curnow’s disposals/decision making is woeful - can’t win carrying that.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2020: Post Game Post Mortum: Carlton vs. Richmond
Post by: 31Tommys_barber on March 19, 2020, 10:57:49 pm
Dow pick 3 taken after him, Uniake, cerra,Stephenson ,hunter clark,naughton, Fogarty,Ed Richards,Higgins,Oscar Allen,Tim Kelly,Liam Ryan,James worpel...........sigh maybe sos was smoke and mirrors
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2020: Post Game Post Mortum: Carlton vs. Richmond
Post by: kruddler on March 19, 2020, 11:04:15 pm
Kreuzer going down early, along with the tigers fast start, put the result beyond doubt from the get go.

That being said, 50 points down at one point had people reaching for the remote, but i doubt anyone thought we would get it back to within striking distance.

Cripps and Doc did what we'd hope them to do. We're on the right track with them in charge.
Murphy+Ed haven't fallen off the cliff in terms of performance just yet.
Walsh was good enough.
Thats our core group performing at an acceptable level.

Weitering and Jones did well, the former was excellent.
Plowman can hold his head up IMO. Considering he had Dusty for large parts, he was not beaten as often as anyone else on the ground would've been in similar circumstances.
SPS should be played off Half back for the next 10 years. Elite disposal coming out of defence.

Our backline was relatively solid....as we'd expected from the team sheet.

Now to the forwardline....or should i say the Jack Attack.
'Jack's kicked 7 goals between them tonight.
Obviously Jack Martin was elite and exceeded most peoples expectations......and we got him for nothing thanks to SOS.
Jack Silvagni kicked 2 and should've had a 3rd (but it was gifted to someone else) as usual, tried hard.
Finally Jack Newnes managed to kick a nice long goal. More impressive IMO was his hardness and willing to stand up for his new teammates. His smarts to draw a free kick is much needed as well. Hopefully others see what i've seen in him thus far and why i've been pumping up his tires. Fills a need in our list - mature player who you can back in to play week in week out

...and cannot forget Casboult. Asked to lift after Kreuzer went down and held his end up. Kicked 2 as well.

We'll gain some confidence from that game for the season. Hopefully we get a bit of luck with injuries from here.


Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2020: Post Game Post Mortum: Carlton vs. Richmond
Post by: Lods on March 19, 2020, 11:39:52 pm
Martin will be a big asset. :)

One player that really impressed tonight though was SPS.
Clean and confident.
He looked really good.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2020: Post Game Post Mortum: Carlton vs. Richmond
Post by: Spanner on March 19, 2020, 11:51:41 pm
Dow is just getting worse by the year. The inability to kick, chase, pressure or do anything meaningful for the team is an indictment on the club for playing him and Silvagni for drafting him.

The guy does not belong on an AFL field. He is totally out of his league.

F@cking horrible.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2020: Post Game Post Mortum: Carlton vs. Richmond
Post by: Inboltswetrust on March 20, 2020, 12:41:11 am
Our outside ball distributors - Setterfield,  Dow,  Fisher and Newman stunk.   To the point where I'd be happy if none played seniors again, ever.    Dow is clueless,  zero awareness, real worry that bloke.   These blokes can't get it,  can't use it and apply F all pressure on the other mob when they have  it.  Murphy did better,  he at least got the pill,  but his use stank.   Curnow tried but his use was awful.    So many ineffective players, can't carry so many passengers.

Big loss was Kreuzer,  if it's a foot that might be the end unfortunately.  Levi very serviceable,  at least gives us a presence around the ground.   Before getting injured Kreuzer looked cooked.

Plowman was hopelessly out pointed,  but at least we have Willo as cover.   I don't see how we're going to fix that midfield though,   it is so far off AFL standard it's embarrassing.  Time to give some of the supposedly talented kids a rocket.

Good post.  Agree with all your comments here.  Especially with regard to the 'poor use' our mids give us.   Kernow and Murphy basically need to be replaced in the midfield with 2 excellent ball users.  E.g Coniglio etc.  If we can't get a player the ilk of that, then we need to try something different to get some class in there...e.g maybe play dok there, or obrien etc.  At least they kick well.    Nunes was poor with his feet.  Will not survive doing that with only 11 possesions.  Dow is awful. Worst number 3 draft pick i've seen.  For that pick alone, I totally understand why SOS is no longer at the club.  Throw in Setterfield, lazy cunningham, lazy mcgovern, plowman (yes Plowman, the one that small forwards always take apart but they keep playing him) and a few others and it is no wonder we were blown away by 40 at half time.  I was thrilled with Martin (real class), crippa and seton played well, although i'd like his 19 touches to be 24.  Frustrated because we have some good players now, unfortunately the spuds need to go so we are not let down by them.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2020: Post Game Post Mortum: Carlton vs. Richmond
Post by: shawny on March 20, 2020, 01:31:52 am
Tonight showed the footy world what I have been saying for the last 3 years. Our midfield is one dimensional, Murphy is a decent small forward but too small in the middle. Ed is a warrior but is no certainty to hit a 20 metre target leaving poor Walsh and Cripps to try and do it all.

Been banging on for years that we are going nowhere until we get 4-5 decent ball users that we can rotate thru the middle. I accepted we were unlikely to get a big fish as no one wanted to come but Instead we have group consisting of Setterfield, Dow, Cunningham, Fisher, Kennedy, Polson, Newnes and Lang  who not one of them looks remotely like a second or even third tier midfielder. Tell me one time any of these blokes got 25 plus touches. And their ball skills are under 12s standard.
Sick and tired of waiting. None of the above players have improved in the years we have persisted with them and I still here blokes on here trying to convince me they need more time. ENOUGH!!

You could always see it with Weitering SPS Walsh Charlie Harry and you just knew they needed game time as they slowly improved year after year yet but there js no improvement in the above lot mentioned and the time has come to move them on that is if anyone is interested.

And Newnes is yet another example of how far we have fallen. He is another reject who was going to be delisted by another struggling team- another ball butcher who will join the list of rejects we tried to convince was the player we needed because we could never get in the real footballers that we were desperate for to make a real difference, so instead like losers we talk up the likes of Lang Newnes, Kennedy setterfield......

Decisions like this is the reason SOS is gone and that after 5 years we are still a bottom team with gapping holes in our list.

The favourite son has made probably 40 or 50 list changes yet lucky if 5-6 are good ones. The rest are either jury out, unlikely or absolute howlers.

We play like we have accepted failure and supporters now are happy to accept losses and just try and find positives to hang out hat on. Be very surprised if Cripps is there beyond this contract.

We are not half the club I followed as a kid.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2020: Post Game Post Mortum: Carlton vs. Richmond
Post by: Gointocarlton on March 20, 2020, 07:26:33 am
I'd just about kill to get a draft freebie like Pickett... Fast,  heavy bodied,  balanced, aware in traffic,  clean hands  and a deadly user.   Instead we persist with crap trucks that tick none of those boxes and just run around fumbling, falling over,  making dumb errors, missing tackles and generally running around in a clueless manner.   And we wasted high draft picks on those blokes... Big clean out coming.
This. You forgot to add terrible by hand and foot.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2020: Post Game Post Mortum: Carlton vs. Richmond
Post by: Gointocarlton on March 20, 2020, 07:29:08 am
Agree with this post

To add to it, Murphy is really just a small forward now and his lack of physicality in the middle is hurting us over and over again. And all of Newman, Simpson, Dow and Curnow’s disposals/decision making is woeful - can’t win carrying that.
As much I love Simmo yes, the above were woeful..again. Did anyone expect anything different?
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2020: Post Game Post Mortum: Carlton vs. Richmond
Post by: flyboy77 on March 20, 2020, 07:30:54 am
Tonight showed the footy world what I have been saying for the last 3 years. Our midfield is one dimensional, Murphy is a decent small forward but too small in the middle. Ed is a warrior but is no certainty to hit a 20 metre target leaving poor Walsh and Cripps to try and do it all.

Been banging on for years that we are going nowhere until we get 4-5 decent ball users that we can rotate thru the middle. I accepted we were unlikely to get a big fish as no one wanted to come but Instead we have group consisting of Setterfield, Dow, Cunningham, Fisher, Kennedy, Polson, Newnes and Lang  who not one of them looks remotely like a second or even third tier midfielder. Tell me one time any of these blokes got 25 plus touches. And their ball skills are under 12s standard.
Sick and tired of waiting. None of the above players have improved in the years we have persisted with them and I still here blokes on here trying to convince me they need more time. ENOUGH!!

You could always see it with Weitering SPS Walsh Charlie Harry and you just knew they needed game time as they slowly improved year after year yet but there js no improvement in the above lot mentioned and the time has come to move them on that is if anyone is interested.

And Newnes is yet another example of how far we have fallen. He is another reject who was going to be delisted by another struggling team- another ball butcher who will join the list of rejects we tried to convince was the player we needed because we could never get in the real footballers that we were desperate for to make a real difference, so instead like losers we talk up the likes of Lang Newnes, Kennedy setterfield......

Decisions like this is the reason SOS is gone and that after 5 years we are still a bottom team with gapping holes in our list.

The favourite son has made probably 40 or 50 list changes yet lucky if 5-6 are good ones. The rest are either jury out, unlikely or absolute howlers.

We play like we have accepted failure and supporters now are happy to accept losses and just try and find positives to hang out hat on. Be very surprised if Cripps is there beyond this contract.

We are not half the club I followed as a kid.

Cry me a river.

Yes Dow shouldn't play 1s for a long time. Poor draft pick, time will tell.

Newnes will get better as he gels, and he was NOT GOING TO BE DELISTED.

It would have been very weird out there - we were nowhere in the first quarter AND the umpires reamed us.

If we had converted a few more of the easy chances and not given them so many freebies, well. It's a game of inches.

On the umps, how many times did the umps let things play on when they were tackled - aren't you required to make an effort to dispose of the ball any more?

13 tackles in H1 says everything about where we were mentality.

44 points in one quarter - done and dusted.

Yet, we got back to what? 15 and had a chance to then kick another?
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2020: Post Game Post Mortum: Carlton vs. Richmond
Post by: Gointocarlton on March 20, 2020, 07:35:58 am
Kreuzer going down early, along with the tigers fast start, put the result beyond doubt from the get go.

That being said, 50 points down at one point had people reaching for the remote, but i doubt anyone thought we would get it back to within striking distance.

Cripps and Doc did what we'd hope them to do. We're on the right track with them in charge.
Murphy+Ed haven't fallen off the cliff in terms of performance just yet.
Walsh was good enough.
Thats our core group performing at an acceptable level.

Weitering and Jones did well, the former was excellent.
Plowman can hold his head up IMO. Considering he had Dusty for large parts, he was not beaten as often as anyone else on the ground would've been in similar circumstances.
SPS should be played off Half back for the next 10 years. Elite disposal coming out of defence.

Our backline was relatively solid....as we'd expected from the team sheet.

Now to the forwardline....or should i say the Jack Attack.
'Jack's kicked 7 goals between them tonight.
Obviously Jack Martin was elite and exceeded most peoples expectations......and we got him for nothing thanks to SOS.
Jack Silvagni kicked 2 and should've had a 3rd (but it was gifted to someone else) as usual, tried hard.
Finally Jack Newnes managed to kick a nice long goal. More impressive IMO was his hardness and willing to stand up for his new teammates. His smarts to draw a free kick is much needed as well. Hopefully others see what i've seen in him thus far and why i've been pumping up his tires. Fills a need in our list - mature player who you can back in to play week in week out

...and cannot forget Casboult. Asked to lift after Kreuzer went down and held his end up. Kicked 2 as well.

We'll gain some confidence from that game for the season. Hopefully we get a bit of luck with injuries from here.



Your joking about Murphy right? I lost count of the times he either turned it over or made the dumbest decision I have ever seen him make. Got the the footy but butchered it a hell of a lot. I dont expect it from a 268 gamer. We need our experienced blokes to be clean and composed.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2020: Post Game Post Mortum: Carlton vs. Richmond
Post by: laj on March 20, 2020, 07:35:58 am
Last 5 min of the 2nd qtr killed. After we really controlled alot of it we allowed them to kick 4 goals.

On the inside we are good as anyone. It's keeps us in big games. We been trained for years to play inside defensively hence we have become terrible on the outside. We'll be middle of the road this year, which will be an improvement, but until we can learn to cut sides up on the outside to give easy ball in our 50 going higher will be harder. Skills suddenly improve when you go into the 50 much more easily as there's space.  Maybe even Dow, who's use makes one cringe at times. The likes of Dow and O'Brien aren't suited to our game style. We smacked Richmond on the inside but when they got out they cut us up through the corridor. That was the game difference right there.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2020: Post Game Post Mortum: Carlton vs. Richmond
Post by: laj on March 20, 2020, 07:40:03 am
Dow pick 3 taken after him, Uniake, cerra,Stephenson ,hunter clark,naughton, Fogarty,Ed Richards,Higgins,Oscar Allen,Tim Kelly,Liam Ryan,James worpel...........sigh maybe sos was smoke and mirrors

Dow was touted as a no.1 pick and one of 3 in contention. So he was getting picked early by someone. After year 1 hasn't worked out that way. He was recruited for his speed on the outside, a game that is seemingly totally foreign to us. Wish he would grow. Looks as skinny as the day he was recruited.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2020: Post Game Post Mortum: Carlton vs. Richmond
Post by: flyboy77 on March 20, 2020, 07:44:41 am
Last 5 min of the 2nd qtr killed. After we really controlled alot of it we allowed them to kick 4 goals.

On the inside we are good as anyone. It's keeps us in big games. We been trained for years to play inside defensively hence we have become terrible on the outside. We'll be middle of the road this year, which will be an improvement, but until we can learn to cut sides up on the outside to give easy ball in our 50 going higher will be harder. Skills suddenly improve when you go into the 50 much more easily as there's space.  Maybe even Dow, who's use makes one cringe at times. The likes of Dow and O'Brien aren't suited to our game style. We smacked Richmond on the inside but when they got out they cut us up through the corridor. That was the game difference right there.

Anyone will smack us if we turn the ball over so easily (thoughtlessly) as we did in H1 - most of the time under little or no pressure.

And 13 tackles in the half - we weren't switched on....at all.

And they were ALL guilty of it.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2020: Post Game Post Mortum: Carlton vs. Richmond
Post by: LP on March 20, 2020, 07:47:10 am
Dow was touted as a no.1 pick and one of 3 in contention. So he was getting picked early by someone. After year 1 hasn't worked out that way. He was recruited for his speed on the outside, a game that is seemingly totally foreign to us. Wish he would grow. Looks as skinny as the day he was recruited.
There was very little speed on show from Dow last night, in fact I was shocked by the lack of it, at one stage SoJ ran past him! Dow rarely put in an effort when chasing, yet we know if in the clear he has some speed, when SoJ runs past you............!

Dow's a luxury item, another Lang type, a bloke who can do something terrific but only 10% of the time, we need 24x7 types, so at this stage I think he's superfluous to our needs and should go!
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2020: Post Game Post Mortum: Carlton vs. Richmond
Post by: Gointocarlton on March 20, 2020, 07:51:50 am
Tonight showed the footy world what I have been saying for the last 3 years. Our midfield is one dimensional, Murphy is a decent small forward but too small in the middle. Ed is a warrior but is no certainty to hit a 20 metre target leaving poor Walsh and Cripps to try and do it all.

Been banging on for years that we are going nowhere until we get 4-5 decent ball users that we can rotate thru the middle. I accepted we were unlikely to get a big fish as no one wanted to come but Instead we have group consisting of Setterfield, Dow, Cunningham, Fisher, Kennedy, Polson, Newnes and Lang  who not one of them looks remotely like a second or even third tier midfielder. Tell me one time any of these blokes got 25 plus touches. And their ball skills are under 12s standard.
Sick and tired of waiting. None of the above players have improved in the years we have persisted with them and I still here blokes on here trying to convince me they need more time. ENOUGH!!

You could always see it with Weitering SPS Walsh Charlie Harry and you just knew they needed game time as they slowly improved year after year yet but there js no improvement in the above lot mentioned and the time has come to move them on that is if anyone is interested.

And Newnes is yet another example of how far we have fallen. He is another reject who was going to be delisted by another struggling team- another ball butcher who will join the list of rejects we tried to convince was the player we needed because we could never get in the real footballers that we were desperate for to make a real difference, so instead like losers we talk up the likes of Lang Newnes, Kennedy setterfield......

Decisions like this is the reason SOS is gone and that after 5 years we are still a bottom team with gapping holes in our list.

The favourite son has made probably 40 or 50 list changes yet lucky if 5-6 are good ones. The rest are either jury out, unlikely or absolute howlers.

We play like we have accepted failure and supporters now are happy to accept losses and just try and find positives to hang out hat on. Be very surprised if Cripps is there beyond this contract.

We are not half the club I followed as a kid.
Cant argue with any of that, I have had a gut full of waiting and excuses. Give us a participation award because we didnt get smacked, f-that, I want wins I dont care who we are playing. Anything else is unacceptable. If I hear or read "The positives are..." one more time I'll spew up. With regards to the comment about Murphy being too small for the middle, Prestia is 5cm shorter. It's got nothing to do with size, it's about will, competitiveness and execution. He had the first two last night, his execution was woeful. We have one established elite player (Cripps), one truly on the way (Walsh) and if he keeps it up (Martin), he may well join them. The rest?
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2020: Post Game Post Mortum: Carlton vs. Richmond
Post by: Gointocarlton on March 20, 2020, 07:55:34 am
Last 5 min of the 2nd qtr killed. After we really controlled alot of it we allowed them to kick 4 goals.

On the inside we are good as anyone. It's keeps us in big games. We been trained for years to play inside defensively hence we have become terrible on the outside. We'll be middle of the road this year, which will be an improvement, but until we can learn to cut sides up on the outside to give easy ball in our 50 going higher will be harder. Skills suddenly improve when you go into the 50 much more easily as there's space.  Maybe even Dow, who's use makes one cringe at times. The likes of Dow and O'Brien aren't suited to our game style. We smacked Richmond on the inside but when they got out they cut us up through the corridor. That was the game difference right there.
we had 6 more I50's than them, just saying.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2020: Post Game Post Mortum: Carlton vs. Richmond
Post by: Gointocarlton on March 20, 2020, 07:57:30 am
Cry me a river.

Yes Dow shouldn't play 1s for a long time. Poor draft pick, time will tell.

Newnes will get better as he gels, and he was NOT GOING TO BE DELISTED.

It would have been very weird out there - we were nowhere in the first quarter AND the umpires reamed us.

If we had converted a few more of the easy chances and not given them so many freebies, well. It's a game of inches.

On the umps, how many times did the umps let things play on when they were tackled - aren't you required to make an effort to dispose of the ball any more?

13 tackles in H1 says everything about where we were mentality.

44 points in one quarter - done and dusted.

Yet, we got back to what? 15 and had a chance to then kick another?

We kicked 8 from free kicks, is that umps reaming them?
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2020: Post Game Post Mortum: Carlton vs. Richmond
Post by: BluePhantom on March 20, 2020, 08:03:07 am
We kicked 8 from free kicks, is that umps reaming them?

We will never win a game with umpires continually killing us. The favoritism given to Richmond was plain to see.
It's hard enough to win a game with our lack of skills let alone fighting the umps all the way as well.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2020: Post Game Post Mortum: Carlton vs. Richmond
Post by: laj on March 20, 2020, 08:04:12 am
There was very little speed on show from Dow last night, in fact I was shocked by the lack of it, at one stage SoJ ran past him! Dow rarely put in an effort when chasing, yet we know if in the clear he has some speed, when SoJ runs past you............!

Dow's a luxury item, another Lang type, a bloke who can do something terrific but only 10% of the time, we need 24x7 types, so at this stage I think he's superfluous to our needs and should go!

We know he has that in spades. We just don't see it.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2020: Post Game Post Mortum: Carlton vs. Richmond
Post by: kruddler on March 20, 2020, 08:06:27 am
Your joking about Murphy right? I lost count of the times he either turned it over or made the dumbest decision I have ever seen him make. Got the the footy but butchered it a hell of a lot. I dont expect it from a 268 gamer. We need our experienced blokes to be clean and composed.

The thing with Murphy is that he can try and be a bit 'too cute' with the ball. He is very skillful and some of his delivery was top notch. It was far from the perfect game from him, but we could do worse with more of him in the midfield. If blokes like Dow and LOB stood up, we could afford to keep him permanently on the outside (wing, half forward) and give him more time. But we don't..

Our kicking inside 50 was largely hit and hope, but on a few occasions Murphy lowered his eyes and found a teammate. Not many other players can say the same from last night so credit where credit is due.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2020: Post Game Post Mortum: Carlton vs. Richmond
Post by: laj on March 20, 2020, 08:07:39 am
we had 6 more I50's than them, just saying.

Simple Inside 50's are soooooo much different to quality inside 50s. As we saw last night. Difference in the game right there. Because they are so much better on the outside. They cut us with that through the corridor. There forever was space in their forward 50, where ours were bombs in there.

Forget the raw numbers.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2020: Post Game Post Mortum: Carlton vs. Richmond
Post by: capcom on March 20, 2020, 08:10:42 am
Setterfield and Dow will go down as very very poor decisions and Silvagni wears that.  The Simpson or Daisy decision was also dumb.  Kade should have given it away.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2020: Post Game Post Mortum: Carlton vs. Richmond
Post by: LP on March 20, 2020, 08:12:02 am
Simple Inside 50's are soooooo much different to quality inside 50s. As we saw last night. Difference in the game right there. Because they are so much better on the outside. They cut us with that through the corridor. There forever was space in their forward 50, where ours were bombs in there.

Forget the raw numbers.
It so much easier to play like Richmond does when you can push every opponent fair and square in the back and not be penalised, they have become so use to doing it and getting away with it, that they take immediate offence whenever an umpire pings them for doing it! Are whingers are winners, is that why they get away with it!

Richmond have two critical techniques that help them win games;

 - Play on Richmond

Dimma(Just let em play!!!!) has bashed the umpires so much in the media, along the way inciting the aggressive Nthmond fans to support his perspective, that the umpires are now scared to penalise them. This manifests itself as alllowing all Nthmond players to push opponents in the back, or dive on the football, and not be penalised, they can even play on after a mark and you'll be given a 50m if you try to tackle them. If you touch a Nthmond player, even if the umpires perceive you thinking about touching a Nthmond player, the whistle goes off. Last night someone commented that an umpires whistle appeared to go off before any contact was even made, surely that is a broadcast audio bug!

 - The Richmond Release

Most of us call it a throw, players from most clubs in the AFL get penalised for doing it, but Nthmond do not and they have taken it to a whole new penalty free level!
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2020: Post Game Post Mortum: Carlton vs. Richmond
Post by: kruddler on March 20, 2020, 08:12:30 am
We kicked 8 from free kicks, is that umps reaming them?

We got pinged for a throw at least a couple of times. They did not.
We got done holding the ball with blokes laying on our back. They got a free for in the back.
Their first couple of goals were from dubious free kicks, so it went both ways. (first was a 50m for too close to the kicker)
50-50 deliberate calls went their way.
Dusty shouldve given a 50m penalty away, but its dusty so its ok.
Almost every free kick they got for tackling us included at least one arm across the head during the tackle - Murphy (x2) and Curnow come to mind.

Yes we got a few too, but a lot of those came when we were 50points down.....not when the game was on the line.
At least 1 free kick that we got a goal out of was when we had the ball anyway - Jack Silvagnis mark comes to mind.

Umpiring was average and changed the course of the game early.......and again to almost let us back in it...but finally to keep us out of it.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2020: Post Game Post Mortum: Carlton vs. Richmond
Post by: kruddler on March 20, 2020, 08:15:52 am
Simple Inside 50's are soooooo much different to quality inside 50s. As we saw last night. Difference in the game right there. Because they are so much better on the outside. They cut us with that through the corridor. There forever was space in their forward 50, where ours were bombs in there.

Forget the raw numbers.

Raw numbers or not, i think its part of our game plan.

Teague wants to be able to get the ball inside 50 and keep it there.....he said as much pre-game.
So what do we do? Go long inside 50 towards the boundary so the defenders hit it over the line. Tada the ball is inside 50 and we have a stoppage. We setup our wall outside 50 and we lock it in. We got what we wanted.

If only we had some decent forwards to help mark the ball (Curnow, Harry), or crumb it (Eddie) and we'd be able to turn those entries into scores a bit easier.

I'm encouraged by what i saw last night.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2020: Post Game Post Mortum: Carlton vs. Richmond
Post by: laj on March 20, 2020, 08:17:43 am
Anyone will smack us if we turn the ball over so easily (thoughtlessly) as we did in H1 - most of the time under little or no pressure.

And 13 tackles in the half - we weren't switched on....at all.

And they were ALL guilty of it.


Lack of pressure hurt. Allowed them to move the ball alot more easily. Even then we were talking 15 points later in the last qtr.

I assume that aspect will improve but we have to get better ourselves on the outside otherwise we'll be middle of the road.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2020: Post Game Post Mortum: Carlton vs. Richmond
Post by: laj on March 20, 2020, 08:18:45 am
Raw numbers or not, i think its part of our game plan.

Teague wants to be able to get the ball inside 50 and keep it there.....he said as much pre-game.
So what do we do? Go long inside 50 towards the boundary so the defenders hit it over the line. Tada the ball is inside 50 and we have a stoppage. We setup our wall outside 50 and we lock it in. We got what we wanted.

If only we had some decent forwards to help mark the ball (Curnow, Harry), or crumb it (Eddie) and we'd be able to turn those entries into scores a bit easier.

I'm encouraged by what i saw last night.

So was I but we have to learn to get it in there faster. We'd score more easily and would add an extra dimension to our game
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2020: Post Game Post Mortum: Carlton vs. Richmond
Post by: LP on March 20, 2020, 08:23:24 am
Raw numbers or not, i think its part of our game plan.
I think it's doomed to fail if you are relying on the likes of Dow to chase down an opponent and lock the footy inside F50.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2020: Post Game Post Mortum: Carlton vs. Richmond
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on March 20, 2020, 08:25:14 am
Kreuzer going down early, along with the tigers fast start, put the result beyond doubt from the get go.

That being said, 50 points down at one point had people reaching for the remote, but i doubt anyone thought we would get it back to within striking distance.

Cripps and Doc did what we'd hope them to do. We're on the right track with them in charge.
Murphy+Ed haven't fallen off the cliff in terms of performance just yet.
Walsh was good enough.
Thats our core group performing at an acceptable level.

Weitering and Jones did well, the former was excellent.
Plowman can hold his head up IMO. Considering he had Dusty for large parts, he was not beaten as often as anyone else on the ground would've been in similar circumstances.
SPS should be played off Half back for the next 10 years. Elite disposal coming out of defence.

Our backline was relatively solid....as we'd expected from the team sheet.

Now to the forwardline....or should i say the Jack Attack.
'Jack's kicked 7 goals between them tonight.
Obviously Jack Martin was elite and exceeded most peoples expectations......and we got him for nothing thanks to SOS.
Jack Silvagni kicked 2 and should've had a 3rd (but it was gifted to someone else) as usual, tried hard.
Finally Jack Newnes managed to kick a nice long goal. More impressive IMO was his hardness and willing to stand up for his new teammates. His smarts to draw a free kick is much needed as well. Hopefully others see what i've seen in him thus far and why i've been pumping up his tires. Fills a need in our list - mature player who you can back in to play week in week out

...and cannot forget Casboult. Asked to lift after Kreuzer went down and held his end up. Kicked 2 as well.

We'll gain some confidence from that game for the season. Hopefully we get a bit of luck with injuries from here.



SPS was good but none of our smaller type defenders actually defend... Tiger smalls ripped us apart and were allowed too much space.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2020: Post Game Post Mortum: Carlton vs. Richmond
Post by: madbluboy on March 20, 2020, 08:31:27 am
23 tackles is putrid even if you add 20% on to make it 29.

Our tackling average last year was 63. The lowest team in the comp was 57.

Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2020: Post Game Post Mortum: Carlton vs. Richmond
Post by: kruddler on March 20, 2020, 08:31:51 am
I think it's doomed to fail if you are relying on the likes of Dow to chase down an opponent and lock the footy inside F50.

Not sure how many had Dow in their best 22, i didn't. He got games through injuries to others - eg Eddie.

But he does have talent. He just lacks confidence. I'm not sure how he is going to get that back given we don't have a VFL side.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2020: Post Game Post Mortum: Carlton vs. Richmond
Post by: Gointocarlton on March 20, 2020, 08:37:57 am
It so much easier to play like Richmond does when you can push every opponent fair and square in the back and not be penalised, they have become so use to doing it and getting away with it, that they take immediate offence whenever an umpire pings them for doing it! Are whingers are winners, is that why they get away with it!

Richmond have two critical techniques that help them win games;

 - Play on Richmond

Dimma(Just let em play!!!!) has bashed the umpires so much in the media, along the way inciting the aggressive Nthmond fans to support his perspective, that the umpires are now scared to penalise them. This manifests itself as alllowing all Nthmond players to push opponents in the back, or dive on the football, and not be penalised, they can even play on after a mark and you'll be given a 50m if you try to tackle them. If you touch a Nthmond player, even if the umpires perceive you thinking about touching a Nthmond player, the whistle goes off. Last night someone commented that an umpires whistle appeared to go off before any contact was even made, surely that is a broadcast audio bug!

 - The Richmond Release

Most of us call it a throw, players from most clubs in the AFL get penalised for doing it, but Nthmond do not and they have taken it to a whole new penalty free level!
Thats right, blame the umps and the other mob for our ineptness with the basics of the game.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2020: Post Game Post Mortum: Carlton vs. Richmond
Post by: laj on March 20, 2020, 08:39:34 am
23 tackles is putrid even if you add 20% on to make it 29.

Our tackling average last year was 63. The lowest team in the comp was 57.


Yep, that as sit. Think Richmond only had 45. Not alot either but alot better than 23.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2020: Post Game Post Mortum: Carlton vs. Richmond
Post by: laj on March 20, 2020, 08:40:10 am
3AW Kruz suspected fractured/ broken fibula.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2020: Post Game Post Mortum: Carlton vs. Richmond
Post by: sandsmere on March 20, 2020, 08:43:55 am
They beat us with a team almost the same as the team that won the 2019 GF easily.
They have very few injury worries at the moment.
Put a fit Betts, McKay and Charlie C in our team and we could have been very close last night.

Jack Martin looks like a damn good pick-up for nothing.

Dow needs a lot of time in the NB's before he plays AFL again.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2020: Post Game Post Mortum: Carlton vs. Richmond
Post by: madbluboy on March 20, 2020, 08:48:05 am
Yep, that as sit. Think Richmond only had 45. Not alot either but alot better than 23.

52 add 20% = 65
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2020: Post Game Post Mortum: Carlton vs. Richmond
Post by: Gointocarlton on March 20, 2020, 08:49:04 am
Yep, that as sit. Think Richmond only had 45. Not alot either but alot better than 23.
52
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2020: Post Game Post Mortum: Carlton vs. Richmond
Post by: Professer E on March 20, 2020, 08:53:13 am
How are were supposed to develop kids when there is no secondary competition?

You don't learn golf on the course.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2020: Post Game Post Mortum: Carlton vs. Richmond
Post by: PaulP on March 20, 2020, 09:14:02 am
Hey everybody ! Why so glum ?

In these uncertain, challenging, difficult times, when the future is anyone's guess, it's comforting to know that there are some things we can rely on, some things that are constants, and that provide some surety among all the confusion.

Anyhoo, go back to the pre game thread and most were predicting a 10 goal shellacking. Apart from Houli, they were basically full strength, whereas we had a number of outs. They are the form team of the last 3 years, and we have been, well.............

The numbers all look pretty good for us after 1/4 time, except for tackles and disposal efficiency. With the former,you should only lay 23 tackles when you control 80% of the ball and win by 70+. With the latter, this is why blokes like Brad Hill would have been fantastic for us, even if he was rather pricey.

It's another honorable loss against a super team.     
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2020: Post Game Post Mortum: Carlton vs. Richmond
Post by: laj on March 20, 2020, 09:15:59 am
52
Ah yes, were 45 at 3/4 time. 45-17. Memory isn't like it once was...lol.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2020: Post Game Post Mortum: Carlton vs. Richmond
Post by: PaulP on March 20, 2020, 09:42:33 am
Bloody Hardwick not so subtly suggesting that Lynch and Riewoldt were victims of dirty tactics by our defenders, and not picked up by the umps.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2020: Post Game Post Mortum: Carlton vs. Richmond
Post by: shawny on March 20, 2020, 09:46:09 am
Cry me a river.

Yes Dow shouldn't play 1s for a long time. Poor draft pick, time will tell.

Newnes will get better as he gels, and he was NOT GOING TO BE DELISTED.

It would have been very weird out there - we were nowhere in the first quarter AND the umpires reamed us.

If we had converted a few more of the easy chances and not given them so many freebies, well. It's a game of inches.

On the umps, how many times did the umps let things play on when they were tackled - aren't you required to make an effort to dispose of the ball any more?

13 tackles in H1 says everything about where we were mentality.

44 points in one quarter - done and dusted.

Yet, we got back to what? 15 and had a chance to then kick another?


We are laughed upon how we complain about everything. injuries, umpires.. heard it all before

Excuse after excuse after excuse.

Buckle in for another bottom 2 finish.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2020: Post Game Post Mortum: Carlton vs. Richmond
Post by: LP on March 20, 2020, 09:52:35 am
Not sure how many had Dow in their best 22, i didn't. He got games through injuries to others - eg Eddie.

But he does have talent. He just lacks confidence. I'm not sure how he is going to get that back given we don't have a VFL side.

A lack of confidence doesn't make you jog behind your opponent when you're probably equally fast if not faster, this guy chases at half rat pace, get rid of him, send the list a message!
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2020: Post Game Post Mortum: Carlton vs. Richmond
Post by: kruddler on March 20, 2020, 09:58:30 am
A lack of confidence doesn't make you jog behind your opponent when you're probably equally fast if not faster, this guy chases at half rat pace, get rid of him, send the list a message!

I'm sure it happened on many an occasion but one stood out to me where that occurred. Can't recall who had the ball, but Dow was 'chasing' him, jogging behind him.....but Dusty was 'following him' as well.
First thought was CHASE HARDER.
Second thought was if he does, that means Dusty gets an easy handball receive and is off running into open space. So i'm not sure if it was intentional, but it was actually the right thing to do.

Fans often get frustrated when players are 'corralling' an opponent rather than tackling....but there is method to the madness. Corralling is usually playing the %'s. Sometimes attacking an opponent is high risk, low reward.

Again, not sure if it was intentional in the above example, i hope it was, but i'll give him the benefit of the doubt in that example.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2020: Post Game Post Mortum: Carlton vs. Richmond
Post by: madbluboy on March 20, 2020, 10:13:31 am
Correct, sometimes giving up the chase is the right thing to do.

Having said that Dow needs to be dropped.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2020: Post Game Post Mortum: Carlton vs. Richmond
Post by: shawny on March 20, 2020, 10:27:38 am
Has there ever been a group talked up as much as these Fisher, Setterfield, Dow and Cunningham and yet deliver SFA.

Dow: Does a shimmy or side step once a game and we all get excited. Reality is he looks so slow without the ball because he is lazy and doesn't work hard enough. Has terrible foot skills and no idea how to even drop the ball onto his boot correctly when taking a shot at goal. Big miss as a top 3 pick and another average season and I will put a line though him. Its now or never for Dow to improve and what I saw last night there is no reason to be too optimistic.     

Setterfield: Cant see it with this guy. Apart from his height does little to show me what all the hype was about. Willing to give him more time but not convinced he will ever be more then a C grader.

Fisher: Had massive hope for this bloke yet is another one that is lucky to touch it 10 times a match. Clean user but too small to ever make it as a top line mid. Have grave doubts on him and plays like he wants to go home.

Cunningham: Still think he has the most X factor and probably the best goal sneak but a pick 20 and 5 years in just doesn't impact enough and another one that glides around like there is no urgency. Wont amount to any more then a burst player at best.

Not much to get excited about when you take off the blue glasses and be honest about our midfield depth.

    
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2020: Post Game Post Mortum: Carlton vs. Richmond
Post by: Gointocarlton on March 20, 2020, 10:47:55 am
A lack of confidence doesn't make you jog behind your opponent when you're probably equally fast if not faster, this guy chases at half rat pace, get rid of him, send the list a message!
There were many instances of our blokes not going 100% to chase an opponent, cut off a kick, get to a contest, get to a ball dropping short. Richmond on the other hand are feral in this regard. That and clean disposal is the difference.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2020: Post Game Post Mortum: Carlton vs. Richmond
Post by: Gointocarlton on March 20, 2020, 10:53:43 am
Has there ever been a group talked up as much as these Fisher, Setterfield, Dow and Cunningham and yet deliver SFA.

Dow: Does a shimmy or side step once a game and we all get excited. Reality is he looks so slow without the ball because he is lazy and doesn't work hard enough. Has terrible foot skills and no idea how to even drop the ball onto his boot correctly when taking a shot at goal. Big miss as a top 3 pick and another average season and I will put a line though him. Its now or never for Dow to improve and what I saw last night there is no reason to be too optimistic.     

Setterfield: Cant see it with this guy. Apart from his height does little to show me what all the hype was about. Willing to give him more time but not convinced he will ever be more then a C grader.

Fisher: Had massive hope for this bloke yet is another one that is lucky to touch it 10 times a match. Clean user but too small to ever make it as a top line mid. Have grave doubts on him and plays like he wants to go home.

Cunningham: Still think he has the most X factor and probably the best goal sneak but a pick 20 and 5 years in just doesn't impact enough and another one that glides around like there is no urgency. Wont amount to any more then a burst player at best.

Not much to get excited about when you take off the blue glasses and be honest about our midfield depth.

    

Fisher is one who has gone backwards after his first year. Doesnt deserve a spot in the 1s. Ditto Dow. Setterfield is just plain soft. Cunningham has played his one in a row, he will either pull up sore, get injured at training this week or get injured next week and that will be it for the year.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2020: Post Game Post Mortum: Carlton vs. Richmond
Post by: Professer E on March 20, 2020, 10:59:34 am
Mirrors my thoughts 100 percent.

Fisher hasn't been the same since that hound broke his leg but is just too small.

Stocker needs to be at least good as he is believed to be,  at least he is the right size, good in traffic and a superb kick. At least he looks the right starting material.

Difference between say SPS and Dow is that the former plays a 360 game,  Dow seems to only try to burst through one way and invariably gets caught.   All our better players - Cripps,  SPS etc are evasive and cool in traffic.   You either have it or you don't.  So why draft Kemp,  a big bodied straight running utility who lacks agility?

The sad thing is that i genuinely believe we finally have some blokes good enough to play in a finals type side, we just don't have enough of them.   It's the dud half of the side (and list)  that are just killing us.

For starters,  a Brad Hill type player would make us a four-six goal better side,  our delivery into the front half is awful.   Long bombs onto Gibbons' head...cant see that working going forwards.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2020: Post Game Post Mortum: Carlton vs. Richmond
Post by: Gointocarlton on March 20, 2020, 11:11:10 am
Proff the thing that stood out in the first qtr was Richmonds delivery into the F50 compared to ours. They kick it hard and low to a player in space. Ours was (and has been for a while) shambolic, bombs as you say, errant/missed kicks, terrible options etc etc. As I stated of the praccy matches, we demonstrated zero that we have fixed/improved disposal and decision making. With some of our players, I dont think it can be fixed/coached out.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2020: Post Game Post Mortum: Carlton vs. Richmond
Post by: LP on March 20, 2020, 11:11:21 am
Thats right, blame the umps and the other mob for our ineptness with the basics of the game.
 
It's not the umps fault, it's the AFL's fault.

The AFL allows the disparity to persist.

If / when we make comments like Dimma, Balme, McGuire, Buckley, Worsfold, Longmire, Clarkson, Dangerfield, Kennett, etc., etc., make comments about umpires and rules, we get reprimanded or fined!
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2020: Post Game Post Mortum: Carlton vs. Richmond
Post by: kruddler on March 20, 2020, 11:11:42 am
Just a reminder, that was setterfields 21st game. He played 18 with us last year coming off an ACL. (2 with GWS).
Cunningham has played 26 games.
Dow played his 42nd

SPS has played 65
Jack Silvagni 61

An extra year or 2 into the top group and we will see performances like the 2nd group
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2020: Post Game Post Mortum: Carlton vs. Richmond
Post by: flyboy77 on March 20, 2020, 11:18:58 am
There were many instances of our blokes not going 100% to chase an opponent, cut off a kick, get to a contest, get to a ball dropping short. Richmond on the other hand are feral in this regard. That and clean disposal is the difference.

This is something Teague needs to address - can't blame the back line when the mids don't work defensively.

Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2020: Post Game Post Mortum: Carlton vs. Richmond
Post by: LP on March 20, 2020, 11:22:30 am
This is something Teague needs to address - can't blame the back line when the mids don't work defensively.
To think that Liddle might have SoJ in the gun, last night SoJ was one of a handful that actually gave 100%!

On the mids, people on here slammed me last season when I said Ed and sMurph were having a go at Cripps for not working hard enough defensively. Have a look at the heat maps last night, and see if you can still justify that position! While I agree that Cripps is elite, it's also clear opponents know he won't chase, just like they knew Judd wouldn't chase!

We've a huge problem, ours kids just aren't stepping up, if anything they look to be going backwards. Even last night after what is supposedly the best pre-season in years it was the old blokes doing most of the grunt work. When Dow, Walsh, Fisher, etc., etc., don't chase, where does that message come from?

Perhaps this has nothing to do with coaches or recruiting, perhaps it's a club culture problem. Maybe that's why we've signed Betts, which makes the rumors/allegations that SoJ might be in the gun even more bizarre!
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2020: Post Game Post Mortum: Carlton vs. Richmond
Post by: Gointocarlton on March 20, 2020, 11:26:42 am
Just a reminder, that was setterfields 21st game. He played 18 with us last year coming off an ACL. (2 with GWS).
Cunningham has played 26 games.
Dow played his 42nd

SPS has played 65
Jack Silvagni 61

An extra year or 2 into the top group and we will see performances like the 2nd group
Excuses excuses, well Ive had enough. The difference btw Setterfield and Jack is that from day one, you could tell Jack would make it. He is feral when the ball or man is near and plays for the jumper. He is a SIlvagni after all. Setterfield lopes around, looking like he couldnt give fark. He looks like one of those guys who thinks he's made it just because he is selected.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2020: Post Game Post Mortum: Carlton vs. Richmond
Post by: flyboy77 on March 20, 2020, 11:27:59 am
Has there ever been a group talked up as much as these Fisher, Setterfield, Dow and Cunningham and yet deliver SFA.

Dow: Does a shimmy or side step once a game and we all get excited. Reality is he looks so slow without the ball because he is lazy and doesn't work hard enough. Has terrible foot skills and no idea how to even drop the ball onto his boot correctly when taking a shot at goal. Big miss as a top 3 pick and another average season and I will put a line though him. Its now or never for Dow to improve and what I saw last night there is no reason to be too optimistic.     

Setterfield: Cant see it with this guy. Apart from his height does little to show me what all the hype was about. Willing to give him more time but not convinced he will ever be more then a C grader.

Fisher: Had massive hope for this bloke yet is another one that is lucky to touch it 10 times a match. Clean user but too small to ever make it as a top line mid. Have grave doubts on him and plays like he wants to go home.

Cunningham: Still think he has the most X factor and probably the best goal sneak but a pick 20 and 5 years in just doesn't impact enough and another one that glides around like there is no urgency. Wont amount to any more then a burst player at best.

Not much to get excited about when you take off the blue glasses and be honest about our midfield depth.

    


Fisher's no smaller than Lachie Neale (well maybe a few kg at this stage).

Nothing to do with it if you have the hunger.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2020: Post Game Post Mortum: Carlton vs. Richmond
Post by: PaulP on March 20, 2020, 11:32:58 am
It wasn't so long ago that folks on here were laying into Silvagni and SPS. 20, 30, 40 gamers playing against a settled, top notch, experienced side like the Tiges will sometimes frustrate and look incomplete.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2020: Post Game Post Mortum: Carlton vs. Richmond
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on March 20, 2020, 11:36:59 am
Dow hasnt adapted to the quicker AFL senior footy and because his disposal skills are not great everything is panicked and rushed leading to errors. He got his way at u18 level due to weight of possessions and his errors were overlooked but he just cant get the footy at senior level and he needs a season in the NB's to fix his problems which isnt going to happen this year
His confidence is shot and looks nervous every time he has the ball and he will take time, not sure in the cut throat world of AFL if he will get that time though.

Fisher...smart player and still a favorite of mine but have to agree since he has come back from that bad injury he has been gun shy and just doesnt get involved in the intense manner he did before. Cripps mate so I dont see him in any trade scenario but he is another who needs to lift the way he competes, skills are there but needs to find his contesting mojo.

Setterfield.....tall but still lean and needs more footy, reckon the wing suits him best...had a poor game vs a very good Tigers lineup for sure and has high expectations on him but needs another season IMO. Didnt look overly fit to me and seemed stiff and not wanting to turn quickly like he needed more pre-season work.

Cunningham....opportunist crumber/finisher, can be very good but doesnt do enough and could be trade bait if he stays true to form and has a mix of good cameos and injury this season.

re: Brad Hill....said it at the time we should have made more effort given his ability/age and skills but not to be...
Happy with Jack Martin's first game though and credit to our own Fly for flying the flag for him(pardon the pun) as he
exceeded expectations vs Richmond and they are the best in the comp.
Kruddlers man Jack Newnes was too bad either with a nice goal and I think vs easier teams Newnes will give us good value.

re: McGovern....attacked the ball ok, threw his weight around and looked a bit better but with our forward numbers down needs to give us more like Martin did.

Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2020: Post Game Post Mortum: Carlton vs. Richmond
Post by: flyboy77 on March 20, 2020, 11:42:10 am
I think everyone needs to cut the playing group a serious amount of slack for last night.

Yes, Q1 was diabolical but think about it: they didn't know until late Wednesday they were actually playing then seeing the empty MCG must have been a h.,... f...?

Sure Dow, Setters, Gibbons were poor but hey, they're on a learning curve.

And with a bit better conversion we could have snatched it.

The positives (Martin, Weiters, Crippa) easily outweighed the negatives imo.

I think it's time to give Willo a go - at the expense of Newman or Simmo.

As an aside, I've seen reference made to Dusty kicking one of our players in the head? When was this alleged incident?
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2020: Post Game Post Mortum: Carlton vs. Richmond
Post by: PaulP on March 20, 2020, 11:43:04 am
.......................

re: McGovern....attacked the ball ok, threw his weight around and looked a bit better but with our forward numbers down needs to give us more like Martin did.

I thought McGovern was pretty good given his limited pre season. He did well in the middle and up forward. Did a number of things right and the one big issue last night was dropping some marks after doing all the hard work in terms of positioning, leaping etc. A sure sign of being a little rusty and underdone IMO.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2020: Post Game Post Mortum: Carlton vs. Richmond
Post by: flyboy77 on March 20, 2020, 11:43:56 am
The Guv will be much better for the run.

I'm still churning through the game but clearly our forward worked well after half time?
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2020: Post Game Post Mortum: Carlton vs. Richmond
Post by: deags on March 20, 2020, 12:12:40 pm
We kicked 8 from free kicks, is that umps reaming them?

There was at least 2 times we should have had 50m penalties (based on the first of the game for them) and werent. Both of which would have put our guys in very kickable positions. There was at least 2-3 other frees not paid in front of goal.  I dont think they were reamed. They got the rub in front of goals plenty of times.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2020: Post Game Post Mortum: Carlton vs. Richmond
Post by: Blue Moon on March 20, 2020, 12:25:29 pm
Glass half full, glass half empty. I thought what killed us in the first quarter was our disposal and our inability to lay a tackle. In the second it was our shots on goal, Martin, McGovern and Dow missed shots they should have kicked and Murphy should have kicked the goal rather than handing it off to Plowman under pressure, while losing Newman and McGovern to injury in that quarter along with Kreuzer for the match, led us to tiring and allowing Richmond to kick four late goals, which was the margin in the end. I thought the third quarter we really put pressure on them, physically taking them on and Richmond didn't like it one bit. We didn't get much reward early and Richmond got a couple of goals out the back, but we persisted and started getting rewards. In the last we were on top again but once again a couple of goals from our mistakes, Newman kicking blindly and one over the top to Rioli killed us. Four goals flattered them in the end after being up by nine I think.
What I took from the game was Carlton's mid-field is better than Richmond's, our disposal is still poor, Martin is a great get and I can see why Gold Coast wanted a first rounder for him but they should have taken the second rounder being offered rather than losing him for nothing, our back line is solid though could do with a bit more pace and our forward line with the two Jacks, Eddie, Levi, McGovern, McKay and Curnow when finally fit will be dangerous, however there needs to be more synergy between the group.
I thought it was interesting that the top side played the 16th side from last year, won by four goals and went to the press conference and complained about the umpires. I also think it is a truism that Richmond we will want to be playing their best football at the end of the season, but I also think every other side would be doing that as well. I think their is a bit of bravado at Richmond and a sense of entitlement and that first quarter was as much about the massive confidence that winning a Premiership brings. They played without fear in that first quarter but they struggled a bit during the third quarter when they were held to account.
Cunningham kicked two goals as a small forward but could have done more, Fisher got better as the night wore on, Dow kicking lets him down and should spend some time in the Northern Blues to help develop his skills, Samo was great and Setterfield seemed to be playing a very defensive role.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2020: Post Game Post Mortum: Carlton vs. Richmond
Post by: Gointocarlton on March 20, 2020, 12:32:15 pm
Yes, Q1 was diabolical but think about it: they didn't know until late Wednesday they were actually playing then seeing the empty MCG must have been a h.,... f...? I dont buy that, Club was preparing to play so not a valid excuse, Richmond came to play

Sure Dow, Setters, Gibbons were poor but hey, they're on a learning curve.How long is this learning curve gonna last?

And with a bit better conversion we could have snatched it.Yes 100%

The positives (Martin, Weiters, Crippa) easily outweighed the negatives imo.Yep, add Doc and Cas to that trio

I think it's time to give Willo a go - at the expense of Newman or Simmo.I'd give Willo and Stocker a go, their disposal is excellent and will only compliment Docs coming out of the back line

As an aside, I've seen reference made to Dusty kicking one of our players in the head? When was this alleged incident?
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2020: Post Game Post Mortum: Carlton vs. Richmond
Post by: DJC on March 20, 2020, 12:36:13 pm
I don’t understand why we were continually relying on our players beating their immediate opponent in a contest.  What has happened to our team defence?

Hindsight is a wonderful thing but the decision not to play De Koning hurt.  Apart from an undersized forward line competing against one of the best marking defences, McGovern in the ruck was a huge ask.  At least he was competitive ... and Levi was outstanding!

Anyway, there were some positive signs.  We just need to set up better and add some grunt, eg Stocker, to the mix.


Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2020: Post Game Post Mortum: Carlton vs. Richmond
Post by: capcom on March 20, 2020, 12:42:09 pm
If Kreuzer is in any way long term, the club MUST retire him.  Love the guy but enough is enough
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2020: Post Game Post Mortum: Carlton vs. Richmond
Post by: laj on March 20, 2020, 12:43:40 pm
Glass half full, glass half empty. I thought what killed us in the first quarter was our disposal and our inability to lay a tackle. In the second it was our shots on goal, Martin, McGovern and Dow missed shots they should have kicked and Murphy should have kicked the goal rather than handing it off to Plowman under pressure, while losing Newman and McGovern to injury in that quarter along with Kreuzer for the match, led us to tiring and allowing Richmond to kick four late goals, which was the margin in the end. I thought the third quarter we really put pressure on them, physically taking them on and Richmond didn't like it one bit. We didn't get much reward early and Richmond got a couple of goals out the back, but we persisted and started getting rewards. In the last we were on top again but once again a couple of goals from our mistakes, Newman kicking blindly and one over the top to Rioli killed us. Four goals flattered them in the end after being up by nine I think.
What I took from the game was Carlton's mid-field is better than Richmond's, our disposal is still poor, Martin is a great get and I can see why Gold Coast wanted a first rounder for him but they should have taken the second rounder being offered rather than losing him for nothing, our back line is solid though could do with a bit more pace and our forward line with the two Jacks, Eddie, Levi, McGovern, McKay and Curnow when finally fit will be dangerous, however there needs to be more synergy between the group.
I thought it was interesting that the top side played the 16th side from last year, won by four goals and went to the press conference and complained about the umpires. I also think it is a truism that Richmond we will want to be playing their best football at the end of the season, but I also think every other side would be doing that as well. I think their is a bit of bravado at Richmond and a sense of entitlement and that first quarter was as much about the massive confidence that winning a Premiership brings. They played without fear in that first quarter but they struggled a bit during the third quarter when they were held to account.
Cunningham kicked two goals as a small forward but could have done more, Fisher got better as the night wore on, Dow kicking lets him down and should spend some time in the Northern Blues to help develop his skills, Samo was great and Setterfield seemed to be playing a very defensive role.

No NB's right now for Dow to develop anything. He might struggle to keep his spot this week.

Philp might be close. TDK should come in for Kreuzer.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2020: Post Game Post Mortum: Carlton vs. Richmond
Post by: PaulP on March 20, 2020, 01:07:23 pm
I don’t understand why we were continually relying on our players beating their immediate opponent in a contest.  What has happened to our team defence?

Hindsight is a wonderful thing but the decision not to play De Koning hurt.  Apart from an undersized forward line competing against one of the best marking defences, McGovern in the ruck was a huge ask.  At least he was competitive ... and Levi was outstanding!

Anyway, there were some positive signs.  We just need to set up better and add some grunt, eg Stocker, to the mix.

I'm guessing any lack of team defence may be due to Teague simplifying the game plan and going more man on man. He's also spoken about trying to get the numbers right between those players who commit to the contest and those who remain outside to receive. I think it was Ling who said one difference between us and the Tiges was that too many of our players were getting drawn to the contest, leaving a deficit on the outside. The Tigers were getting the balance right. Clearly a work in progress.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2020: Post Game Post Mortum: Carlton vs. Richmond
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on March 20, 2020, 01:15:04 pm
No NB's right now for Dow to develop anything. He might struggle to keep his spot this week.

Philp might be close. TDK should come in for Kreuzer.

Reckon Pittonet will come in for MK......Dogs kid English is a nice player with good skills and needs roughing up rather than a similar type playing on him, we also need more muscle in the middle.
I dont mind TDK down forward though as we need some more firepower, winnable game provided we keep their three key mids quiet like I said previously.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2020: Post Game Post Mortum: Carlton vs. Richmond
Post by: Professer E on March 20, 2020, 01:24:11 pm
Near the boundary line,  Dusty got up from a tangle and dropped his knee towards slightly  the bloke on the ground, making contact with his shin.   It wasnt a typical kick or stomp and probably not worth a week but I saw it,  it's clear what his intention was and its not on.  It probably happens in the burbs every weekend but it's sly and I've seen massive fights start over it.  He should at least receive a chip over it.   There was a lot of marginal stuff in the game,  Dusty in particular likes to tackle high and fends high.   Some day somebody is going to say enough's enough and he might find an elbow buried in his larynx during a fend off.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2020: Post Game Post Mortum: Carlton vs. Richmond
Post by: LP on March 20, 2020, 02:23:49 pm
Near the boundary line,  Dusty got up from a tangle and dropped his knee towards slightly  the bloke on the ground, making contact with his shin.  It wasnt a typical kick or stomp and probably not worth a week but I saw it,  it's clear what his intention was and its not on.  It probably happens in the burbs every weekend but it's sly and I've seen massive fights start over it.  He should at least receive a chip over it.  There was a lot of marginal stuff in the game,  Dusty in particular likes to tackle high and fends high.  Some day somebody is going to say enough's enough and he might find an elbow buried in his larynx during a fend off.
When Riewoldt wiped his snotty nose on Cripps back I was hoping Crippa would throw a right elbow back, damn the consequences!
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2020: Post Game Post Mortum: Carlton vs. Richmond
Post by: Sexybronco on March 20, 2020, 02:45:34 pm
I know I'm backing over this issue one more time,  but can someone give me a rational explanation as to why we picked DeLuca over Picket in the mid season draft??? A glaring difference between us and Richmond last night was speed/class and decision making, they have play makers all over the mark changing the courses of plays, Marlion being one of them.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2020: Post Game Post Mortum: Carlton vs. Richmond
Post by: Gointocarlton on March 20, 2020, 02:48:32 pm
When Riewoldt wiped his snotty nose on Cripps back I was hoping Crippa would throw a right elbow back, damn the consequences!
Come on LP, that's a bit exaggerated IMO. I watched the game again and that incident you refer to. Crippa actually shouldered him and whilst off balanced, his face glanced Crippa's shoulder. I hate the kents as much as the next bloke but thats BS trying to make something out of that.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2020: Post Game Post Mortum: Carlton vs. Richmond
Post by: PaulP on March 20, 2020, 02:55:15 pm
I know I'm backing over this issue one more time,  but can someone give me a rational explanation as to why we picked DeLuca over Picket in the mid season draft??? A glaring difference between us and Richmond last night was speed/class and decision making, they have play makers all over the mark changing the courses of plays, Marlion being one of them.

I doubt anyone can give a rational explanation. 17 other clubs also passed on him. The Tigers have enough depth and stability and off field professionalism to know that he was worth a punt, and to be able to carry on if it didn't work out. They always look good when they come off. He was troubled, did jail time, and had been around the traps for a long time. No one went near him, not even the two WA clubs, who had him right under their noses.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2020: Post Game Post Mortum: Carlton vs. Richmond
Post by: kruddler on March 20, 2020, 02:57:38 pm
I know I'm backing over this issue one more time,  but can someone give me a rational explanation as to why we picked DeLuca over Picket in the mid season draft??? A glaring difference between us and Richmond last night was speed/class and decision making, they have play makers all over the mark changing the courses of plays, Marlion being one of them.

 You can play the 'what-if' at every draft.

Why was Eddie Betts passed over by every club at the ND, only to be left to us in the PSD?
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2020: Post Game Post Mortum: Carlton vs. Richmond
Post by: LP on March 20, 2020, 03:00:05 pm
Come on LP, that's a bit exaggerated IMO. I watched the game again and that incident you refer to. Crippa actually shouldered him and whilst off balanced, his face glanced Crippa's shoulder. I hate the kents as much as the next bloke but thats BS trying to make something out of that.
Cripps didn't shoulder him, Cripps had his back to Riewoldt and it happened after the siren as they broke apart and started walking off.

I haven't watch the replay but be surprised if it is on the replay, that part of the game is usually edited out, you would need an uncut broadcast copy that shows after the siren.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2020: Post Game Post Mortum: Carlton vs. Richmond
Post by: Gointocarlton on March 20, 2020, 03:06:34 pm
I know I'm backing over this issue one more time,  but can someone give me a rational explanation as to why we picked DeLuca over Picket in the mid season draft??? A glaring difference between us and Richmond last night was speed/class and decision making, they have play makers all over the mark changing the courses of plays, Marlion being one of them.
Because we pick choir boys who arent good footballers and teams like Richmond take chances on a wild child that can actually play.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2020: Post Game Post Mortum: Carlton vs. Richmond
Post by: Gointocarlton on March 20, 2020, 03:07:06 pm
Cripps didn't shoulder him, Cripps had his back to Riewoldt and it happened after the siren as they broke apart and started walking off.

I haven't watch the replay but be surprised if it is on the replay, that part of the game is usually edited out, you would need an uncut broadcast copy that shows after the siren.
Its on the replay, watch it.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2020: Post Game Post Mortum: Carlton vs. Richmond
Post by: Gointocarlton on March 20, 2020, 03:09:52 pm
You can play the 'what-if' at every draft.

Why was Eddie Betts passed over by every club at the ND, only to be left to us in the PSD?
This one was different, we had our eye on him but the jail thing ticked the no box.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2020: Post Game Post Mortum: Carlton vs. Richmond
Post by: Sexybronco on March 20, 2020, 03:15:10 pm
You can play the 'what-if' at every draft.

Why was Eddie Betts passed over by every club at the ND, only to be left to us in the PSD?

I know mate and I normally don't do that 'what-if' stuff however there were many on this website calling for Marlion as the best talent in the draft (not me as I have no clue) but having seen the 2 play I'm at a loss to understand the choice. Anyway, time to move on.....
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2020: Post Game Post Mortum: Carlton vs. Richmond
Post by: Sexybronco on March 20, 2020, 03:16:10 pm
This one was different, we had our eye on him but the jail thing ticked the no box.
There was a time when the 'jail thing' was mandatory at our club...
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2020: Post Game Post Mortum: Carlton vs. Richmond
Post by: Gointocarlton on March 20, 2020, 03:18:58 pm
There was a time when the 'jail thing' was mandatory at our club...
Yes, those days were the glory days
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2020: Post Game Post Mortum: Carlton vs. Richmond
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on March 20, 2020, 03:24:58 pm
I know I'm backing over this issue one more time,  but can someone give me a rational explanation as to why we picked DeLuca over Picket in the mid season draft??? A glaring difference between us and Richmond last night was speed/class and decision making, they have play makers all over the mark changing the courses of plays, Marlion being one of them.

Tigers and us have different recruiting criteria when it comes to potential problem players....they took Ben Cousins, made Jake King a local hero and Pickett was a easy choice for them given they have such a strong list and have a higher risk tolerance.
We have the Von Trapp policy where SOS liked nice kids from nice backgrounds who went to nice schools and had Golden Retrievers as pets..

Pickett was clearly the best WAFL player on long form but was also injured and not due to play for 8-10 weeks...we needed an instant sugar hit and Deluca had been BOG in the recent state game and was also AFL ready after spending time at Freo. Deluca also had a delayed start but not the delay that Pickett was going to have.
I get the logic and dont blame SOS on Pickett but we do need to lower our eyes and get a bit more nasty with our recruiting selections every now and then and pick the rough diamond over the choirboy.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2020: Post Game Post Mortum: Carlton vs. Richmond
Post by: Sexybronco on March 20, 2020, 03:29:42 pm
Tigers and us have different recruiting criteria when it comes to potential problem players....they took Ben Cousins, made Jake King a local hero and Pickett was a easy choice for them given they have such a strong list and have a higher risk tolerance.
We have the Von Trapp policy where SOS liked nice kids from nice backgrounds who went to nice schools and had Golden Retrievers as pets..

Pickett was clearly the best WAFL player on long form but was also injured and not due to play for 8-10 weeks...we needed an instant sugar hit and Deluca had been BOG in the recent state game and was also AFL ready after spending time at Freo. Deluca also had a delayed start but not the delay that Pickett was going to have.
I get the logic and dont blame SOS on Pickett but we do need to lower our eyes and get a bit more nasty with our recruiting selections every now and then and pick the rough diamond over the choirboy.

you got my vote!
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2020: Post Game Post Mortum: Carlton vs. Richmond
Post by: WASurfer on March 20, 2020, 03:58:00 pm
Agree with pretty much everything in this thread. Have said it before numerous times in earlier threads.....my concern is and always has been the lack of progression from most of your younger recruits...Walsh being the exception. With so many relatively high end draft picks over a fair time now, we're still saying the same thing.....they're young and developing. Unfortunately, if we drop the likes of Dow, Setterfield etc....we go back to the same blokes like Kennedy, O'Brien, Lang etc who give us absolutely nothing.

Yes, missing Charlie, McKay and Betts is a massive chunk out of the forward line. Eddie would've been in his element last night with the amount of ball we actually had in the forward line. He chases, he tackles, he pressures....and he IS one bloke that only needs half a dozen kicks and he'll kick you 3 goals. Luckily Jack Martin took that mantle last night and fingers crossed when we get Eddie back they'll compliment each other nicely.

Hate to say it but Kreuzer is probably cooked now. He looked slow in the practice games and this injury means it might've caught up with him. Throw TDK and Pittonet in there and leave Levi as the permanent forward. He can spray it for sure on the set shot but I'd have him in there before McGovern simply for the fact that he gives it his all....we saw that last year when he was thrown around to all spots on the ground and responded superbly.

But if we're relying on Cripps, Walsh etc week after week then we're in line for another bottom 4 finish.

It's still early for sure but our disposal and skills were terrible in both practice games and yet there were a few that put it down to just being practice games. Well it was the real deal last night and we still sucked.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2020: Post Game Post Mortum: Carlton vs. Richmond
Post by: Gointocarlton on March 20, 2020, 04:29:20 pm
It's still early for sure but our disposal and skills were terrible in both practice games and yet there were a few that put it down to just being practice games. Well it was the real deal last night and we still sucked.
Gee whiz, who woulda thunk it? ::)
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2020: Post Game Post Mortum: Carlton vs. Richmond
Post by: cookie2 on March 20, 2020, 06:11:41 pm
Gee whiz, who woulda thunk it? ::)

Yes and our F50 entries especially in 1H were very poor quality, long bombs onto the heads of forwards rather than to advantage. We just don't learn, hell the Tiger game plan is based on taking advantage of that stuff.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2020: Post Game Post Mortum: Carlton vs. Richmond
Post by: Gointocarlton on March 20, 2020, 07:10:49 pm
Yes and our F50 entries especially in 1H were very poor quality, long bombs onto the heads of forwards rather than to advantage. We just don't learn, hell the Tiger game plan is based on taking advantage of that stuff.
And with the bombs, they need to abandon that immediately for one reason, Gov. He was jumping at everything but its dangerous for his health, he is writing cheques his body cant cash.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2020: Post Game Post Mortum: Carlton vs. Richmond
Post by: kruddler on March 20, 2020, 07:13:15 pm
And with the bombs, they need to abandon that immediately for one reason, Gov. He was jumping at everything but its dangerous for his health, he is writing cheques his body cant cash.

As discussed elsewhere, its partly tactical.

We can continue to do that, we just tell him not to jump at them.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2020: Post Game Post Mortum: Carlton vs. Richmond
Post by: shawny on March 20, 2020, 07:13:44 pm
Yes and our F50 entries especially in 1H were very poor quality, long bombs onto the heads of forwards rather than to advantage. We just don't learn, hell the Tiger game plan is based on taking advantage of that stuff.

150% agree Cookie.

Why I constantly say we are the dumbest club in the comp.

Doesn't matter how many times we change the coach, get new blood in, early draft picks whatever, we still have NFI how to do a basic spot up pass to a leading forward.

How many times do we stuff it up when we are out and have space and our forwards are calling for it behind the defenders when there is space to lead into. No crap, but we learnt that at under 10s and under 12s.

Been a long time since I have watched a Carlton team move the ball into their fifty with any sort of system.

I like Jack but the pass he tried to execute when only 35 dead in front out was dumb football.   Then you have Plowman calling for the ball to take a running shot is again a play that shows no system. Murphy seeing it was Plowman and giving it to him was beyond stupid.

These are 2 examples of plays that teams with a system rarely if ever would try.    
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2020: Post Game Post Mortum: Carlton vs. Richmond
Post by: Gointocarlton on March 20, 2020, 07:18:14 pm
As discussed elsewhere, its partly tactical.

We can continue to do that, we just tell him not to jump at them.
If thats tactical, Ill give the game and the club away.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2020: Post Game Post Mortum: Carlton vs. Richmond
Post by: Gointocarlton on March 20, 2020, 07:22:50 pm
150% agree Cookie.

Why I constantly say we are the dumbest club in the comp.

Doesn't matter how many times we change the coach, get new blood in, early draft picks whatever, we still have NFI how to do a basic spot up pass to a leading forward.

How many times do we stuff it up when we are out and have space and our forwards are calling for it behind the defenders when there is space to lead into. No crap, but we learnt that at under 10s and under 12s.

Been a long time since I have watched a Carlton team move the ball into their fifty with any sort of system.

I like Jack but the pass he tried to execute when only 35 dead in front out was dumb football.   Then you have Plowman calling for the ball to take a running shot is again a play that shows no system. Murphy seeing it was Plowman and giving it to him was beyond stupid.

These are 2 examples of plays that teams with a system rarely if ever would try.    
And Teague was Adelaide's Fwd Line coach ::) I was listening to the radio today and they were discussing what audio they could overlay on the broadcast to cover for the lack of a crowd. For our 1st qtr and abit, Benny Hill music would have been apt.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2020: Post Game Post Mortum: Carlton vs. Richmond
Post by: kruddler on March 20, 2020, 07:26:17 pm
If thats tactical, Ill give the game and the club away.


I mentioned elsewhere, don't know if you read it.

Teague said pre-game, and this is the same message from last year, that he wants to get the ball forward and lock it inside 50/forward half.

Getting the ball forward is self explanatory.
How do you lock it in?
Obviously if you can find a teammate inside 50, hit him up. If not? Bomb it long towards the boundary. If you can't mark it, ensure the opposition does not. They will most likely spoil it towards the boundary and cause a throw in.
This gives you time to set up for the stoppage, and set up your wall across half forward.
From there, back cripps and co to win the stoppage and get a shot on goal.

Its a 'cousin' of the malthouse game plan of go long down the line if nothing is on so you are not beaten on the slingshot.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2020: Post Game Post Mortum: Carlton vs. Richmond
Post by: Gointocarlton on March 20, 2020, 07:32:59 pm

I mentioned elsewhere, don't know if you read it.

Teague said pre-game, and this is the same message from last year, that he wants to get the ball forward and lock it inside 50/forward half.

Getting the ball forward is self explanatory.
How do you lock it in?
Obviously if you can find a teammate inside 50, hit him up. If not? Bomb it long towards the boundary. If you can't mark it, ensure the opposition does not. They will most likely spoil it towards the boundary and cause a throw in.
This gives you time to set up for the stoppage, and set up your wall across half forward.
From there, back cripps and co to win the stoppage and get a shot on goal.

Its a 'cousin' of the malthouse game plan of go long down the line if nothing is on so you are not beaten on the slingshot.
Bombing long towards the boundary is one thing and I understand that but we dont do that. We bomb it straight down the middle and the oppo defenders lick their collective chops. I cannot be convinced that our fwd entry play has any form of system ATM.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2020: Post Game Post Mortum: Carlton vs. Richmond
Post by: capcom on March 20, 2020, 07:53:44 pm
I cannot be convinced that our fwd entry play has any form of system ATM.

It is non existent.  We're OK on protection, pathetic in attack and incapable in following a game plan. 
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2020: Post Game Post Mortum: Carlton vs. Richmond
Post by: bratblue on March 20, 2020, 08:46:37 pm
I don't know if this has been mentioned but if I was a conspiracy theorist I'd say that the umps got a message at quarter time that the bosses don't want to see a non event in the first game of this weird  season.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2020: Post Game Post Mortum: Carlton vs. Richmond
Post by: Macca37 on March 20, 2020, 09:16:37 pm
Just thinking back over the last 8 or 9 years and recalling the thrashings we got every season from Hawthorn and other top sides.

Year in, year out we saw players like Hodge, Gunston, Breust, Mitchell etc, take us apart with their foot skills and ability to control the ball.  In those years, with monotonous regularity we would keep turning the ball over, even when not under pressure.

I assumed with the rebuild that Bolton and SOS in their selection criteria with early picks would automatically include recruiting players with foot skills.

Yet, who have we recruited that has the skills to give us a winning forward line?

Richmond last night just continued our humiliation.  Why is it that our recruiters cannot see what every Carlton supporter can see is needed?

As I've said before, it wouldn't matter who is coach.  There is something so wrong with our club that will ensure we stay close to the bottom for years.



Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2020: Post Game Post Mortum: Carlton vs. Richmond
Post by: kruddler on March 20, 2020, 09:19:24 pm
I assumed with the rebuild that Bolton and SOS in their selection criteria with early picks would automatically include recruiting players with foot skills.

Yet, who have we recruited that has the skills to give us a winning forward line?

Did you see SPS carving the tigers up last night? Best foot skills out on the park IMO.
Up forward, we had Martin.

I agree that more is always handy, but to say we have none is wrong.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2020: Post Game Post Mortum: Carlton vs. Richmond
Post by: capcom on March 20, 2020, 09:23:33 pm
Did you see SPS carving the tigers up last night? Best foot skills out on the park IMO.
Up forward, we had Martin.

I agree that more is always handy, but to say we have none is wrong.

Dow?  Plowman?
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2020: Post Game Post Mortum: Carlton vs. Richmond
Post by: shawny on March 20, 2020, 09:30:41 pm
Did you see SPS carving the tigers up last night? Best foot skills out on the park IMO.
Up forward, we had Martin.

I agree that more is always handy, but to say we have none is wrong.

True those 2 are good. The point was we don’t have anywhere near enough especially thru the midfield.
Poor list management decisions has left us with no back up ruck and a midfield filled with young blokes that butcher it.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2020: Post Game Post Mortum: Carlton vs. Richmond
Post by: shawny on March 20, 2020, 09:34:31 pm
Dow?  Plowman?

Setterfield, Ed, Jones, Lang, polson
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2020: Post Game Post Mortum: Carlton vs. Richmond
Post by: flyboy77 on March 20, 2020, 10:20:14 pm
Just wached the game in full.

most of H2 for the first time.

Anyone who says Dusty was BOG is smoking some good gear - non event.

I was very impressed by how we finished.

Richmond didn't slow down, we dropped the gears and zoomed past them.

Jack Martin, SPS, Crippa, Doc and Weiters - just wow.

Get the likes of Dow out of the 22 (hopefully he comes good), improve our intensity and tackling from the get go and we can take any team,

Sad about Special K obviously but perhaps Pittonet's time to shine?
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2020: Post Game Post Mortum: Carlton vs. Richmond
Post by: capcom on March 20, 2020, 10:26:25 pm
Setterfield, Ed, Jones, Lang, polson

What passes for talent these days makes strong men weep Shawny
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2020: Post Game Post Mortum: Carlton vs. Richmond
Post by: laj on March 21, 2020, 07:50:36 pm
After watching the first 4 games I reckon we have been the 3rd best side out of them.

Of course GWS v Geelong might knock that down a bit plus West Coast and Brisbane are still to play.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2020: Post Game Post Mortum: Carlton vs. Richmond
Post by: LP on March 21, 2020, 10:07:15 pm
Yes, for a season start it's been pretty ordinary in general, skills are carp, just shows you how much the crowd noise influences opinions.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2020: Post Game Post Mortum: Carlton vs. Richmond
Post by: LoveNavy on March 21, 2020, 10:41:58 pm
23 tackles is putrid even if you add 20% on to make it 29.

Our tackling average last year was 63. The lowest team in the comp was 57.



This is the thing that I find perplexing. Ffs our girls lay 70 tackles, ferocious tackles, in an equal length game. That's when they win 😕
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2020: Post Game Post Mortum: Carlton vs. Richmond
Post by: LP on March 21, 2020, 10:56:33 pm
What's the statistical definition of a tackle, has anyone checked the replay to see if that stat is real?

Didn't Hodge say after half time our tackling was up and that we'd we had almost that many tackles in just one quarter, not sure if he referred to the 2nd or 3rd!
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2020: Post Game Post Mortum: Carlton vs. Richmond
Post by: laj on March 22, 2020, 01:49:21 am
This is the thing that I find perplexing. Ffs our girls lay 70 tackles, ferocious tackles, in an equal length game. That's when they win 😕

AFL tacking numbers were way down across the board, although our's were still very low. Geelong only had 8 tackles to half time before kicking up a bit more. Maybe low crowds have mentally reduced intensity. It is hard to get past the feel of "scratch match" atmosphere. Plus the unlimited interchange allows less fatigue hence more hard run.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2020: Post Game Post Mortum: Carlton vs. Richmond
Post by: PaulP on March 22, 2020, 10:24:14 am
https://www.afl.com.au/video/388813/he-s-the-luckiest-man-in-the-competition-right-now?videoId=388813&modal=true&type=video&publishFrom=1584795790001&tagNames=ProgramType:Programs&references=AFL_COMPETITION:1

Watch from about 13.00 onward.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2020: Post Game Post Mortum: Carlton vs. Richmond
Post by: Gointocarlton on March 22, 2020, 10:56:25 am
https://www.afl.com.au/video/388813/he-s-the-luckiest-man-in-the-competition-right-now?videoId=388813&modal=true&type=video&publishFrom=1584795790001&tagNames=ProgramType:Programs&references=AFL_COMPETITION:1

Watch from about 13.00 onward.
Cant argue with that. So when are we going to stand up?
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2020: Post Game Post Mortum: Carlton vs. Richmond
Post by: Baggers on March 22, 2020, 01:21:29 pm
https://www.afl.com.au/video/388813/he-s-the-luckiest-man-in-the-competition-right-now?videoId=388813&modal=true&type=video&publishFrom=1584795790001&tagNames=ProgramType:Programs&references=AFL_COMPETITION:1

Watch from about 13.00 onward.

Gulp.

At least DT said we're here to win at the end of his bit, rather than being defined by pressure and competitiveness.

As for taking the season opener off us... too early to call. Let's see how we're tracking later in the year.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2020: Post Game Post Mortum: Carlton vs. Richmond
Post by: Gointocarlton on March 22, 2020, 01:43:41 pm
Gulp.

At least DT said we're here to win at the end of his bit, rather than being defined by pressure and competitiveness.

As for taking the season opener off us... too early to call. Let's see how we're tracking later in the year.
Last win was 2012, thats the tell for me. Personally I would much prefer to not play in the opener, lay low until we are competitive. Ditto Fri nights. Now I know you will all say we were competitive on Thurs night, we were for 2.5 qtrs a round 1 loss is a round 1 loss and I think the pressure and scrutiny before and after is unnecessary.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2020: Post Game Post Mortum: Carlton vs. Richmond
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on March 22, 2020, 02:15:00 pm
Last win was 2012, thats the tell for me. Personally I would much prefer to not play in the opener, lay low until we are competitive. Ditto Fri nights. Now I know you will all say we were competitive on Thurs night, we were for 2.5 qtrs a round 1 loss is a round 1 loss and I think the pressure and scrutiny before and after is unnecessary.
Agree, prefer we avoided the opener and Richmond. You are on the back foot early and
we are a team that need to build momentum before we take on the better teams IMHO.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2020: Post Game Post Mortum: Carlton vs. Richmond
Post by: laj on March 22, 2020, 05:00:38 pm
Watching the round this weekend we are far from the worst team going round. Barring a shocking first qtr and an awful last 5 min of the 2nd, a qtr we had been well on top, we were on top for most of the game. Just can't play such a bad 1st qtr and expect to win though no matter what. We had've hung on at the end of the 2nd qtr and it would've been most interesting. We have looked better though than some sides that won this weekend.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2020: Post Game Post Mortum: Carlton vs. Richmond
Post by: laj on March 23, 2020, 11:52:03 am
Working out the maths, our score of 81 in a 64 min games is the equivalent of scoring 102 in a full game.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2020: Post Game Post Mortum: Carlton vs. Richmond
Post by: rocky on March 23, 2020, 01:25:05 pm
I'm pretty sure our score would've beaten 13 other teams
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2020: Post Game Post Mortum: Carlton vs. Richmond
Post by: Jack Burton on March 23, 2020, 02:06:48 pm
If there is no more football in 2020 (this is likely) we will have won 7 less games but finished several places higher on the ladder compared with 2019