Righto, enough of three slips and a gully leg spin knee stump wicket blah blah blah crap.
It's time for the Australian Open. :))
The Aussies have had a tough opening draw....from memory Bernie Tomic has Rafa in the first round. Ash Barty has Serena Williams.
Difficult to say this early who is going to win this Grand Slam...but I'm going to stick my neck out and say Nadal will nab this one.
Discuss.
Righto, enough of three slips and a gully leg spin knee stump wicket blah blah blah crap.
It's time for the Australian Open. :))
The Aussies have had a tough opening draw....from memory Bernie Tomic has Rafa in the first round. Ash Barty has Serena Williams.
Difficult to say this early who is going to win this Grand Slam...but I'm going to stick my neck out and say Nadal will nab this one.
Discuss.
Novak D to win this slam and I hope Tomic gets his ar$e kicked all around the court first up by Nadal....
Serena would make a good CHF.... ;)
Mrs Baggers loves the tennis... she even goes to watch it! Foxtel is hers in January.
I'd rather watch metal rust.
Righto, enough of three slips and a gully leg spin knee stump wicket blah blah blah crap.
It's time for the Australian Open. :))
The Aussies have had a tough opening draw....from memory Bernie Tomic has Rafa in the first round. Ash Barty has Serena Williams.
Difficult to say this early who is going to win this Grand Slam...but I'm going to stick my neck out and say Nadal will nab this one.
Discuss.
Novak D to win this slam and I hope Tomic gets his ar$e kicked all around the court first up by Nadal....
Serena would make a good CHF.... ;)
Yep, can't stand Bernard Tomic. Arrogant, spoilt little boy. Jumped ten feet in the air with glee when I heard he had Nadal first up.
Pity about Ash Barty...I think she's a great young player and the future of Australian tennis.
Perhaps through Nike the Blues can get Serena down to the club for some discussions... ;D
Mrs Baggers loves the tennis... she even goes to watch it! Foxtel is hers in January.
Look out Baggers. I'm going to the tennis. And Gozza is single. Is watching metal rust really worth it? ;D
Mrs Baggers loves the tennis... she even goes to watch it! Foxtel is hers in January.
Look out Baggers. I'm going to the tennis. And Gozza is single. Is watching metal rust really worth it? ;D
:)) :))
Their is another Aussie who drew Federer in his first game if I recall correctly. Butterworth or something like that.
Novac Djokovic to win as a wish, but its likely Rafael Nadal will win another Aussie Open.
Serena Williams should win the womens, although she could probably win the mens. Just get a hair cut and give it a try. Rename herself Sean Williams.
Duckworth drew Federer. Not Billy I hope. ;D
Novac Djokovic to win as a wish, but its likely Rafael Nadal will win another Aussie Open.
The Djoker has a very cruisey draw relative to the Spaniard...... Nadal's half is littered with real threats.
The Serb has won the last three clashes, my money is on him.
Or Federer playing Edberg style!!
Pffft....Tomic a threat to Rafa? The spoilt little brat will probably go running for his mummy at the end of the first set.
Agree otherwise though.
Im curious, why all the Tomic hate?
Seriously, here is a guy who has really done a lot to change his image of late, and even did his best for Australia during the most recent Davis cup in Perth, yet we have a bit of hate for him.
He is a 21 year old, who made some poor choices early on in his career surrounding being a bit arrogant, wanting to enjoy having a bit of cash and breaching an agreement surrounding a car, and aside from that has done not too much wrong. Even his most recent bad publicity came on the back of his 21st birthday where he enjoyed himself (I can barely remember my 21st) yet here he stands currently ranked 52 which is not as good as his best, but is still respectable and nothing to scoff at particularly for someone who only turned 21 last year.
Surely its time we let him emerge from the boy that he was and allow him to become the man that he can be? He sounded very humble and spoke very well after his last match thanking the Perth crowd and talking about the honour of representing Australian Tennis. Is this once again an issue centred around Ethnics?
Based on the upbringing that I had, anyone who fails to assimilate into "australian" culture is generally regarded as a bit of a tool. The weird thing is, that this is what makes this country great. Multiple cultures coexisting in society and all having something to contribute. The thing is, we did the same thing with Dokic who was generally painted in a poor light by the Aussie media and once again due to an overbearing father, they decided to represent a different culture altogether. We ended up alienating Dokic to a degree in some way, and I wonder whether or not things might be a bit of history repeating itself.
http://www.ausopen.com/en_AU/scores/draws/ms/r1s1.html (http://www.ausopen.com/en_AU/scores/draws/ms/r1s1.html)
Draw if anyone is interested....
Tomic, give the lad a break..... what's he done to you?!
Because he's an arrogant tool. What's he done exactly to warrant such arrogance? Fark all. Contrast with Ash Barty who has been well grounded and down to earth the whole time. Tomic's a bad sport. Sportsmanship goes a long way in this caper....even the great Pat Rafter had had a run in with him....sh1tty attitude caused him to be dropped from the Davis cup last year.
I've never been a fan of Nadal but credit where its due...has the runs on the board to earn respect from the community and I hope he smashes Spoilt brat in straight sets.
And don't come that racist crap with me....has nothing to do with it. I used to feel the same way about Hewitt many years ago but he has gained much respect over the years through battling on in an era of tennis greats. The racist card is a cheap way out and if that's at the forefront of anyone's mind when critisizing a sportsman then they need their head read.
Have to agree with Gozza, can't stand Tomic for the life of me. Too many reasons to explain really, but he is just a tool of a kid that has no class. I honestly hope Nadal destroys him.
I am a Federer man until he retires, but Novak is the best now, especially on hardcourts, and should take it out.
Because he's an arrogant tool. What's he done exactly to warrant such arrogance? Fark all. Contrast with Ash Barty who has been well grounded and down to earth the whole time. Tomic's a bad sport. Sportsmanship goes a long way in this caper....even the great Pat Rafter had had a run in with him....sh1tty attitude caused him to be dropped from the Davis cup last year.
I've never been a fan of Nadal but credit where its due...has the runs on the board to earn respect from the community and I hope he smashes Spoilt brat in straight sets.
And don't come that racist crap with me....has nothing to do with it. I used to feel the same way about Hewitt many years ago but he has gained much respect over the years through battling on in an era of tennis greats. The racist card is a cheap way out and if that's at the forefront of anyone's mind when critisizing a sportsman then they need their head read.
x3.....
.......
................ I used to feel the same way about Hewitt many years ago but he has gained much respect over the years through battling on in an era of tennis greats. .......
So before he won anything you hated him as he was an arrogant such and such, but as he started winning and then was humbled by better players you respected him :-\ .
I'm happy to give Tomic a break he's talented and just needs to find his place in the game. In time many players turn it around. Novak is another example, he was a prat when he first came on the scene, now he's the "Joker" and much admired.
IN my lifetime , every now and then true great champions come along and for me they are Borg & Federer. These guys respect the game firstly and the enjoy the marketing benefits second.
Because he's an arrogant tool. What's he done exactly to warrant such arrogance? Fark all. Contrast with Ash Barty who has been well grounded and down to earth the whole time. Tomic's a bad sport. Sportsmanship goes a long way in this caper....even the great Pat Rafter had had a run in with him....sh1tty attitude caused him to be dropped from the Davis cup last year.
I've never been a fan of Nadal but credit where its due...has the runs on the board to earn respect from the community and I hope he smashes Spoilt brat in straight sets.
And don't come that racist crap with me....has nothing to do with it. I used to feel the same way about Hewitt many years ago but he has gained much respect over the years through battling on in an era of tennis greats. The racist card is a cheap way out and if that's at the forefront of anyone's mind when critisizing a sportsman then they need their head read.
x3.....
x4
I used to feel the same way about Hewitt many years ago but he has gained much respect over the years through battling on in an era of tennis greats.
Hewitt is still a tool in my eyes. I can never applaud anyone who fist pumps and yells come on after an opponents unforced error.
Hewitt battling on in an era of Tennis Greats??
Thats mind boggling Gozza. Federer is a great, Nadal might be considered a great but has a fair way to go, and same with Djokovic who is also on his way to being a great, but Hewitt has played in one of the softest period of all around stars. Marat Safin was one of the stronger guys on tour when Hewitt was at his best, and he is a solid Scott Camporeale at best, whilst the others are in the Jezza category. Worlds apart.
I used to feel the same way about Hewitt many years ago but he has gained much respect over the years through battling on in an era of tennis greats.
Hewitt is still a tool in my eyes. I can never applaud anyone who fist pumps and yells come on after an opponents unforced error.
Hewitt battling on in an era of Tennis Greats??
Thats mind boggling Gozza. Federer is a great, Nadal might be considered a great but has a fair way to go, and same with Djokovic who is also on his way to being a great, but Hewitt has played in one of the softest period of all around stars. Marat Safin was one of the stronger guys on tour when Hewitt was at his best, and he is a solid Scott Camporeale at best, whilst the others are in the Jezza category. Worlds apart.
I've never liked Hewitt. I gave him the benefit of the doubt when he was young, thinking he'd grow out of it. He never has. The remark he made to the chair umpire at the US Open years ago about the black linesman was the final straw for me. Tool.
Tomic, he's also a tool imo and it has nothing to do with race. He has a real air of entitlement about him which I don't like. His on court demeanour also leaves a lot to be desired. Maybe it's just the way he is, laconic, but he doesn't always appear to put everything into a match, especially when the chips are down. He is young though so let's see if he can grow up which Hewitt never did.
I used to feel the same way about Hewitt many years ago but he has gained much respect over the years through battling on in an era of tennis greats.
Hewitt is still a tool in my eyes. I can never applaud anyone who fist pumps and yells come on after an opponents unforced error.
Hewitt battling on in an era of Tennis Greats??
Thats mind boggling Gozza. Federer is a great, Nadal might be considered a great but has a fair way to go, and same with Djokovic who is also on his way to being a great, but Hewitt has played in one of the softest period of all around stars. Marat Safin was one of the stronger guys on tour when Hewitt was at his best, and he is a solid Scott Camporeale at best, whilst the others are in the Jezza category. Worlds apart.
Federer is not just a great, but said by many to be the greatest of all time. That's unfortunate for anyone to be playing against in their era. Greatest ever in the history of the sport. And when he was right up at his best, which man was often there to give him strife in Grand Slams? Nadal. For a period of a few years there Federer and Nadal had a duopoly on Grand Slam titles. Add in Djokovic, and Roddick too and there was some real challenges for Hewitt. Yet he has stood the test of time and continued to battle on through the years.
This is the third decade where Hewitt is competing in Grand Slam events. Granted he was (or as some might think, still is) a tool, but geez, he deserves praise for staying around so long and continuing to fight on given world no.1 in his career, Wimbledon title, US Open, were years ago. Has 29 career titles too...not to be sneezed at. Think he's a good Aussie battler, and I hope I'm talking about Tomic the same way in 10 or so years, but time will tell.
On a better note, I look forward to seeing Pat Rafter back in action in doubles. Will be partnered with Hewitt. Hope they play the yankee Bryan brothers. ;D
Slightly off topic, but I just read Andre Agassi's book 'Open', which has been out a few years. Didn't really warm to the guy BUT it is an excellent read.
Slightly off topic, but I just read Andre Agassi's book 'Open', which has been out a few years. Didn't really warm to the guy BUT it is an excellent read.
Have wanted to read that for a while. Pity Borders is no longer going...I'd plant me arse in one of their air-conditioned shops tomorrow and read it. ;D
Venus Williams out, but it looks like there will be no upsets in the first round. There are still plenty of games to prove me wrong. ;)
I used to feel the same way about Hewitt many years ago but he has gained much respect over the years through battling on in an era of tennis greats.
Hewitt is still a tool in my eyes. I can never applaud anyone who fist pumps and yells come on after an opponents unforced error.
Hewitt battling on in an era of Tennis Greats??
Thats mind boggling Gozza. Federer is a great, Nadal might be considered a great but has a fair way to go, and same with Djokovic who is also on his way to being a great, but Hewitt has played in one of the softest period of all around stars. Marat Safin was one of the stronger guys on tour when Hewitt was at his best, and he is a solid Scott Camporeale at best, whilst the others are in the Jezza category. Worlds apart.
Federer is not just a great, but said by many to be the greatest of all time. That's unfortunate for anyone to be playing against in their era. Greatest ever in the history of the sport. And when he was right up at his best, which man was often there to give him strife in Grand Slams? Nadal. For a period of a few years there Federer and Nadal had a duopoly on Grand Slam titles. Add in Djokovic, and Roddick too and there was some real challenges for Hewitt. Yet he has stood the test of time and continued to battle on through the years.
This is the third decade where Hewitt is competing in Grand Slam events. Granted he was (or as some might think, still is) a tool, but geez, he deserves praise for staying around so long and continuing to fight on given world no.1 in his career, Wimbledon title, US Open, were years ago. Has 29 career titles too...not to be sneezed at. Think he's a good Aussie battler, and I hope I'm talking about Tomic the same way in 10 or so years, but time will tell.
federer didnt win his first grand slam title till 2004. Hewitt won his first of only two in 2001 in the USA and then Wimbledon in 2002. Roddick won one US open in 2003. Thats how good he was. Federer is a great temnis player but even he benefitted from a soft competition for half his career. Tennis had lots of competition in the 90's and shortly after Sampras retired was bereft of dominant players. The competition was non existant for Federer until Djokovic arrived.
As for the petulant Hewitt, the thing i remember most about him were the excuses he rolled out whenever he lost at home. He would blame the injuries, or the surface at Rod Laver, the equipment and never creditted his opponent. The worst sportsmanship i have ever seen.
Venus Williams out, but it looks like there will be no upsets in the first round. There are still plenty of games to prove me wrong. ;)
Petra Kvitiva No 6 seed, ..........goneski
When does Nadal play mister spoilt rotten?
When does Nadal play mister spoilt rotten?
7pm tonight.
Ash Barty looks like she has something to work with, very good ground strokes. Will need to improve her serve but she's only 17.
Beauty. ;D
Also, Barty gave it a good crack last night. I like the look of her, think she'll have a good career.
Be interesting to see how Bernie goes tonight...
Beauty. ;D
Also, Barty gave it a good crack last night. I like the look of her, think she'll have a good career.
Be interesting to see how Bernie goes tonight...
Out in straight sets hopefully.
Over three and a half hours on a stinker hot day for Lleyton Hewitt. Has come back from 2 sets down and it's still going.
Come on Hewitt!!!
Seppi had the better of Hewitt all day. Hewitt just couldn't hang on in the end.
The youngest player in the mens, and Aussie, Kokkinakis won and through to the second round.
Tomic pulls out at the end of the first set, 6-4 Nadal's way.
Tomic pulls out at the end of the first set, 6-4 Nadal's way.
Pulls out or wimps out.
I told Mrs Baggers that you would be at the tennis on Friday. She asked me what she should look out for...
I replied...
...your sanity.
Tomic pulls out at the end of the first set, 6-4 Nadal's way.
Did something to his groin in the first few minutes of the match. His game play was pretty good but he just couldn't move properly. Next time.
@Baggers -
Look out for a SUPER STUD. ;D
Tomic pulls out at the end of the first set, 6-4 Nadal's way.
Did something to his groin in the first few minutes of the match. His game play was pretty good but he just couldn't move properly. Next time.
I heard he also hurt his right hand in the privacy of the locker room.
@Baggers -
Look out for a SUPER STUD. ;D Why would she have hamburger mince out when she can have lobster and ribeye at home ;) :) :) ;D
Tomic pulls out at the end of the first set, 6-4 Nadal's way.
Did something to his groin in the first few minutes of the match. His game play was pretty good but he just couldn't move properly. Next time.
I heard he also hurt his right hand in the privacy of the locker room. Doing what? Was he looking at a photo of himself whilst incurring this 'right hand' injury >:D
I heard he also hurt his right hand in the privacy of the locker room.
Maybe he was injured, but it seems he has a lot of such injuries!
LP's limited diagnosis, he is suffering from pea heart brought on by being a front running silver-spoon feed wanker!
He had this look of defeat on his face when he walked onto court.. Head was down. I'm guessing something happened earlier and he knew he wasn't going to last.
I heard he also hurt his right hand in the privacy of the locker room.
Maybe he was injured, but it seems he has a lot of such injuries!
LP's limited diagnosis, he is suffering from pea heart brought on by being a front running silver-spoon feed wanker!
Don't beat around the bush, Spotted One. What do you really think of the lad ;D :))
I suspect many folks think the same thing. Personally, I think a few kangas got out of the paddock; some of his marbles have rolled out; if you put him in a round room he'd find a corner to sit in. 8)
He had this look of defeat on his face when he walked onto court.. Head was down. I'm guessing something happened earlier and he knew he wasn't going to last.
Something
did happen that led to him knowing he wasn't going to last - he found out he was playing Nadal.
He had this look of defeat on his face when he walked onto court.. Head was down. I'm guessing something happened earlier and he knew he wasn't going to last.
He realised he wouldn't have the ticker to take on Raf. He should be made to watch Hewitt... in terms of determination.
Then he should get to a pharmacy and overdose on 'humility & reality' pills.
Last year a mate and I went to the tennis....got there and ground passes were sold out. So we went and spent the day in the pub instead. ;D
Thats mind boggling Gozza. Federer is a great, Nadal might be considered a great but has a fair way to go, and same with Djokovic who is also on his way to being a great, but Hewitt has played in one of the softest period of all around stars.
Curious about this. What, in you opinion, makes a player great? Rafa has won 13 grand slam titles, only Federer and Sampras are ahead of him.
He has a fair way to go? Rightio.
I heard he also hurt his right hand in the privacy of the locker room.
Maybe he was injured, but it seems he has a lot of such injuries!
LP's limited diagnosis, he is suffering from pea heart brought on by being a front running silver-spoon feed wanker!
Pathetic. You expect someone to play when injured as he obviously was just for your benefit. What have you ever done in your life where you can bag someone else.
Given that i expect y ou too boo every Carlton player that comes off injured in 2014 and call them weak otherwise you're a hypocrite.
Australians can be pathetic at times
Bruce is at his homoerotic best, drooling over Djokovic: "He's just such a difficult man to penetrate ... He's just so tight isn't he?"
Thats mind boggling Gozza. Federer is a great, Nadal might be considered a great but has a fair way to go, and same with Djokovic who is also on his way to being a great, but Hewitt has played in one of the softest period of all around stars.
Curious about this. What, in you opinion, makes a player great? Rafa has won 13 grand slam titles, only Federer and Sampras are ahead of him.
He has a fair way to go? Rightio.
If you want to define greatness by results, then so be it, but for me, when you win 8 out of the last 9 French Open titles to make up the majority of that 13, and the one you lost happens to be to Roger Federer (Who you beat 4 out of the other 8 times in the final) then that speaks to the level of competition that exists in the world of Tennis.
Things have only gotten interesting over the last 3-4 years if you ask me, but thats just my opinion. Aside from that, the competition has never been more lopsided which lessens the achievements of people currently dominating the tour.
I heard he also hurt his right hand in the privacy of the locker room.
Maybe he was injured, but it seems he has a lot of such injuries!
LP's limited diagnosis, he is suffering from pea heart brought on by being a front running silver-spoon feed wanker!
Pathetic. You expect someone to play when injured as he obviously was just for your benefit. What have you ever done in your life where you can bag someone else.
Given that i expect y ou too boo every Carlton player that comes off injured in 2014 and call them weak otherwise you're a hypocrite.
Australians can be pathetic at times
For all those people who went too soon bagging Tomic, he had some scans today and they revealed a rather minor tear in his groin which is categorised as a Grade 1 tear, and the diagnosis advises that it is rested for 3 weeks. For people in peak condition and athletes that are proffesionals, if they follow the right recovery process they might get back in 1 week.
Now I heard his post match press conference, and he was of the opinion that he was playing pretty well and he was dissapointed to pull out, but he had to. His medicos advised that playing through it might have resulted in nothing but increased severity of the injury which might have seen him miss 3 - 4 months.
So, I think a few people should be eating their words. I can tell you now, that as tough as footy players used to be, that would be more of a liability during a match than anything else, and you could only afford to carry a player with that sort of injury if the tagger is going to sit on them, rather than a teamate.
Thats mind boggling Gozza. Federer is a great, Nadal might be considered a great but has a fair way to go, and same with Djokovic who is also on his way to being a great, but Hewitt has played in one of the softest period of all around stars.
Curious about this. What, in you opinion, makes a player great? Rafa has won 13 grand slam titles, only Federer and Sampras are ahead of him.
He has a fair way to go? Rightio.
If you want to define greatness by results, then so be it, but for me, when you win 8 out of the last 9 French Open titles to make up the majority of that 13, and the one you lost happens to be to Roger Federer (Who you beat 4 out of the other 8 times in the final) then that speaks to the level of competition that exists in the world of Tennis.
Things have only gotten interesting over the last 3-4 years if you ask me, but thats just my opinion. Aside from that, the competition has never been more lopsided which lessens the achievements of people currently dominating the tour.
Yet he's one of only 7 players in the history of the game to win all four slams. Even Sampras couldn't do that...and he won half of his slams at Wimbledon. It's OK to say he's a great though, I'm sure?
What's this RPM rubbish stat ch 7 has introduced. Let me tell you exactly how many RPMs these players achieve.. zero. What's wrong with measuring the racquet head speed or the ball speed which is actually meaningful.
Bruce is at his homoerotic best, drooling over Djokovic: "He's just such a difficult man to penetrate ... He's just so tight isn't he?"
Need some gel for this man maybe. I haven't heard Bruce call him delicious yet, or special for that matter.
Got to disagree with you there, IOT. RPMs are a good measure of top spin on a serve and on a groundstroke. That's the secret to Nadal's dominance over Federer - he can spank the ball but he can also get it to climb high on his backhand. Check out Tennis coaching sites and you'll see it isn't a silly TV gimmick.
Oh, it's the ball's spin rather than the speed the player is swinging their racquet , I see. :-[
Got to disagree with you there, IOT. RPMs are a good measure of top spin on a serve and on a groundstroke. That's the secret to Nadal's dominance over Federer - he can spank the ball but he can also get it to climb high on his backhand. Check out Tennis coaching sites and you'll see it isn't a silly TV gimmick.
Like with the kicker second serves to allow the ball to rise near shoulder height which is a difficult return. It would help if they explained what they were talking about rather than us resorting to Google all the time. ;D
Don't stress IOT. Never judge you here buddy. ;)
I heard he also hurt his right hand in the privacy of the locker room.
Maybe he was injured, but it seems he has a lot of such injuries!
LP's limited diagnosis, he is suffering from pea heart brought on by being a front running silver-spoon feed wanker!
Pathetic. You expect someone to play when injured as he obviously was just for your benefit. What have you ever done in your life where you can bag someone else.
Given that i expect y ou too boo every Carlton player that comes off injured in 2014 and call them weak otherwise you're a hypocrite.
Australians can be pathetic at times
Tomic is a wanker, I can't watch him play he is full of excuses. He makes diving soccer players look like UFC competitors!
Today after his presser he has been widely lambasted by senior tennis officials, current as well as past greats, all who think the whole press conference was an unbelievable charade. Quite a few stated an opinion Tomic continues to play tennis like a talented junior making childish excuses when things are not perfect for him, and failing to make the transition in work ethic and thinking that he needs to move into senior tennis. He gabbled on at the presser like a guilty child trying to explain their way out of the naughty corner.
Laj, trying to extend my criticism of Tomic to AFL players is far more extreme than my comments about Tomic!
Australia should get behind the likes of Dellacqua and Kyrgios and cut Tomic loose as a blood sucking lost cause!
Thats mind boggling Gozza. Federer is a great, Nadal might be considered a great but has a fair way to go, and same with Djokovic who is also on his way to being a great, but Hewitt has played in one of the softest period of all around stars.
Curious about this. What, in you opinion, makes a player great? Rafa has won 13 grand slam titles, only Federer and Sampras are ahead of him.
He has a fair way to go? Rightio.
If you want to define greatness by results, then so be it, but for me, when you win 8 out of the last 9 French Open titles to make up the majority of that 13, and the one you lost happens to be to Roger Federer (Who you beat 4 out of the other 8 times in the final) then that speaks to the level of competition that exists in the world of Tennis.
Things have only gotten interesting over the last 3-4 years if you ask me, but thats just my opinion. Aside from that, the competition has never been more lopsided which lessens the achievements of people currently dominating the tour.
Yet he's one of only 7 players in the history of the game to win all four slams. Even Sampras couldn't do that...and he won half of his slams at Wimbledon. It's OK to say he's a great though, I'm sure?
Stop arguing semantics. If its unclear to you, I think the term great is bandied about too readily these days.
Tennis of the nineties was a bit different. Lots of players for both men and women were all at the top of their games and Tennis was much more cat and mouse than it was today. Going into every tournament you were looking at any of roughly 6-8 players that could realistically win and that was true for men and women.
Now its one of Djokovic, Nadal, Federer is dropping off, and Murray is up and coming. The rest are generally making up numbers. One might make it interesting occasionally but usually thats a rarity.
Do I consider Sampras a great... No. A tennis great (given the dominance is more about timing than anything else). For me a Tennis great should be someone who has won all four majors in a year. Otherwise you end up with too many Greats.
Happy now?
Not sure how you can say the 90s was full of players at the top of tgeir game when you had one trick ponies like Ivanisavic (sp?) sitting at the pointy end of the top 10 for almost a decade. The big jump in technology and big players also resulted in what was largely regarded as the most boring decade of men's tennis.
Nadal is clearly the best clay courter of all time and Fed is the most rounded player. Add the 30 grand slams they share and they are both greats, quality of the competition is probably about the same.
Thats mind boggling Gozza. Federer is a great, Nadal might be considered a great but has a fair way to go, and same with Djokovic who is also on his way to being a great, but Hewitt has played in one of the softest period of all around stars.
Curious about this. What, in you opinion, makes a player great? Rafa has won 13 grand slam titles, only Federer and Sampras are ahead of him.
He has a fair way to go? Rightio.
If you want to define greatness by results, then so be it, but for me, when you win 8 out of the last 9 French Open titles to make up the majority of that 13, and the one you lost happens to be to Roger Federer (Who you beat 4 out of the other 8 times in the final) then that speaks to the level of competition that exists in the world of Tennis.
Things have only gotten interesting over the last 3-4 years if you ask me, but thats just my opinion. Aside from that, the competition has never been more lopsided which lessens the achievements of people currently dominating the tour.
Yet he's one of only 7 players in the history of the game to win all four slams. Even Sampras couldn't do that...and he won half of his slams at Wimbledon. It's OK to say he's a great though, I'm sure?
Stop arguing semantics. If its unclear to you, I think the term great is bandied about too readily these days.
Tennis of the nineties was a bit different. Lots of players for both men and women were all at the top of their games and Tennis was much more cat and mouse than it was today. Going into every tournament you were looking at any of roughly 6-8 players that could realistically win and that was true for men and women.
Now its one of Djokovic, Nadal, Federer is dropping off, and Murray is up and coming. The rest are generally making up numbers. One might make it interesting occasionally but usually thats a rarity.
Do I consider Sampras a great... No. A tennis great (given the dominance is more about timing than anything else). For me a Tennis great should be someone who has won all four majors in a year. Otherwise you end up with too many Greats.
Happy now?
Everything you know wrong. ;D
Just pissing around thry. ;D
Not sure how you can say the 90s was full of players at the top of tgeir game when you had one trick ponies like Ivanisavic (sp?) sitting at the pointy end of the top 10 for almost a decade. The big jump in technology and big players also resulted in what was largely regarded as the most boring decade of men's tennis.
Nadal is clearly the best clay courter of all time and Fed is the most rounded player. Add the 30 grand slams they share and they are both greats, quality of the competition is probably about the same.
Its all a matter of opinion. Today players are about speed and power hitting the ball flat. Back then slice, volley, lob. All shots that were executed much more precisly than they are today. Same is true of pretty much every sport. Footy was better back then. Soccer was better back then. Basketball was better back then. Every sport has become ballistic and has lost the finesse.
Bjorn Borg was the greatest clay courter of all time. No technology, no sports scientists. Perhaps my perspective is wrong and these guys might be the greats you say they are which is why they have no competition but maybe just maybe not. We can't know for sure and thats the beauty of a forum.
Watching 41 year old Pat Rafter serve at 200 kilometres an hour in his doubles game, when speed was generally not his forte makes me think that im on the money regarding how good current players are.
Bruce is at his homoerotic best, drooling over Djokovic: "He's just such a difficult man to penetrate ... He's just so tight isn't he?"
Two 'Freudian' comments, back to back (so to speak). I often wonder if after saying such things Bruce looks to his co-commentators and gives them a saucy wink?
Must say that I am an unashamed fan of Bruce. His passion and excellence in commentary / knowledge sets a very high standard. We're actually pretty well served (tennis ... served... oh, dear, I'll show myself out... :-[) by the quality of commentator in this great land of ours.
When I helped set up AFL coverage at Triple M, we flew Bruce in to talk to all the callers about how he prepares for a football call.
He turned up with manuals of stats that he put together for each game. An amazing amount of detail and cross referencing.
All the callers and players held him in the highest regard, and were thrilled he could help them all out.
He spoke to everybody for hours and his passion for the game was fantastic to listen to...I have the day recorded on cassettes somewhere!!
When I helped set up AFL coverage at Triple M, we flew Bruce in to talk to all the callers about how he prepares for a football call.
He turned up with manuals of stats that he put together for each game. An amazing amount of detail and cross referencing.
All the callers and players held him in the highest regard, and were thrilled he could help them all out.
He spoke to everybody for hours and his passion for the game was fantastic to listen to...I have the day recorded on cassettes somewhere!!
Was at his dynamic best in the 90s...seems to have lost the plot a bit since though.
Thats mind boggling Gozza. Federer is a great, Nadal might be considered a great but has a fair way to go, and same with Djokovic who is also on his way to being a great, but Hewitt has played in one of the softest period of all around stars.
Curious about this. What, in you opinion, makes a player great? Rafa has won 13 grand slam titles, only Federer and Sampras are ahead of him.
He has a fair way to go? Rightio.
If you want to define greatness by results, then so be it, but for me, when you win 8 out of the last 9 French Open titles to make up the majority of that 13, and the one you lost happens to be to Roger Federer (Who you beat 4 out of the other 8 times in the final) then that speaks to the level of competition that exists in the world of Tennis.
Things have only gotten interesting over the last 3-4 years if you ask me, but thats just my opinion. Aside from that, the competition has never been more lopsided which lessens the achievements of people currently dominating the tour.
Yet he's one of only 7 players in the history of the game to win all four slams. Even Sampras couldn't do that...and he won half of his slams at Wimbledon. It's OK to say he's a great though, I'm sure?
Stop arguing semantics. If its unclear to you, I think the term great is bandied about too readily these days.
Tennis of the nineties was a bit different. Lots of players for both men and women were all at the top of their games and Tennis was much more cat and mouse than it was today. Going into every tournament you were looking at any of roughly 6-8 players that could realistically win and that was true for men and women.
Now its one of Djokovic, Nadal, Federer is dropping off, and Murray is up and coming. The rest are generally making up numbers. One might make it interesting occasionally but usually thats a rarity.
Do I consider Sampras a great... No. A tennis great (given the dominance is more about timing than anything else). For me a Tennis great should be someone who has won all four majors in a year. Otherwise you end up with too many Greats.
Happy now?
I agree the word 'great' is thrown around too easily today.
Looking at the history books only two players have ever won all four majors in one year. Rod Laver (twice) and Don Budge, who won six slams overall way back in the late 1930's. So does this mean, in your opinion they are the only two greats in men's tennis?
What if someone won 20 titles but never achieved the slam in a calendar year? Still not a great?
On one hand you say "If you want to define greatness by results, then so be it...." but on the other hand you are doing exactly the same thing by saying a great can only be defined IF they win all four slams in a calender year.
Sampras had the record for years of grand slam titles, broken only by roger federer. If that's not great then i dont know what is.
Thats mind boggling Gozza. Federer is a great, Nadal might be considered a great but has a fair way to go, and same with Djokovic who is also on his way to being a great, but Hewitt has played in one of the softest period of all around stars.
Curious about this. What, in you opinion, makes a player great? Rafa has won 13 grand slam titles, only Federer and Sampras are ahead of him.
He has a fair way to go? Rightio.
If you want to define greatness by results, then so be it, but for me, when you win 8 out of the last 9 French Open titles to make up the majority of that 13, and the one you lost happens to be to Roger Federer (Who you beat 4 out of the other 8 times in the final) then that speaks to the level of competition that exists in the world of Tennis.
Things have only gotten interesting over the last 3-4 years if you ask me, but thats just my opinion. Aside from that, the competition has never been more lopsided which lessens the achievements of people currently dominating the tour.
Yet he's one of only 7 players in the history of the game to win all four slams. Even Sampras couldn't do that...and he won half of his slams at Wimbledon. It's OK to say he's a great though, I'm sure?
Stop arguing semantics. If its unclear to you, I think the term great is bandied about too readily these days.
Tennis of the nineties was a bit different. Lots of players for both men and women were all at the top of their games and Tennis was much more cat and mouse than it was today. Going into every tournament you were looking at any of roughly 6-8 players that could realistically win and that was true for men and women.
Now its one of Djokovic, Nadal, Federer is dropping off, and Murray is up and coming. The rest are generally making up numbers. One might make it interesting occasionally but usually thats a rarity.
Do I consider Sampras a great... No. A tennis great (given the dominance is more about timing than anything else). For me a Tennis great should be someone who has won all four majors in a year. Otherwise you end up with too many Greats.
Happy now?
I agree the word 'great' is thrown around too easily today.
Looking at the history books only two players have ever won all four majors in one year. Rod Laver (twice) and Don Budge, who won six slams overall way back in the late 1930's. So does this mean, in your opinion they are the only two greats in men's tennis?
What if someone won 20 titles but never achieved the slam in a calendar year? Still not a great?
On one hand you say "If you want to define greatness by results, then so be it...." but on the other hand you are doing exactly the same thing by saying a great can only be defined IF they win all four slams in a calender year.
I think that this whole misunderstanding started on the back of a poorly worded post and just maybe you are being overly critical. Nadal might be considered a great (because to me, much of his greatness is on the back of an open he has been too dominant in with not enough competition) and has a fair way to go (because he is 27 and has spent quite a bit of time injured) and I am more comfortable labelling someone as Great once they are finished rather than 2/3rd's through their career.
Is that better?
Or would you like me to change it again so it conforms to your opinion of the definition of a great?
:'(
Look at the trouble Gozza have caused.
:'(
Look at the trouble Gozza have caused.
Naughty GozzMan. You should punish yourself. ;D
Thats mind boggling Gozza. Federer is a great, Nadal might be considered a great but has a fair way to go, and same with Djokovic who is also on his way to being a great, but Hewitt has played in one of the softest period of all around stars.
Curious about this. What, in you opinion, makes a player great? Rafa has won 13 grand slam titles, only Federer and Sampras are ahead of him.
He has a fair way to go? Rightio.
If you want to define greatness by results, then so be it, but for me, when you win 8 out of the last 9 French Open titles to make up the majority of that 13, and the one you lost happens to be to Roger Federer (Who you beat 4 out of the other 8 times in the final) then that speaks to the level of competition that exists in the world of Tennis.
Things have only gotten interesting over the last 3-4 years if you ask me, but thats just my opinion. Aside from that, the competition has never been more lopsided which lessens the achievements of people currently dominating the tour.
Yet he's one of only 7 players in the history of the game to win all four slams. Even Sampras couldn't do that...and he won half of his slams at Wimbledon. It's OK to say he's a great though, I'm sure?
Stop arguing semantics. If its unclear to you, I think the term great is bandied about too readily these days.
Tennis of the nineties was a bit different. Lots of players for both men and women were all at the top of their games and Tennis was much more cat and mouse than it was today. Going into every tournament you were looking at any of roughly 6-8 players that could realistically win and that was true for men and women.
Now its one of Djokovic, Nadal, Federer is dropping off, and Murray is up and coming. The rest are generally making up numbers. One might make it interesting occasionally but usually thats a rarity.
Do I consider Sampras a great... No. A tennis great (given the dominance is more about timing than anything else). For me a Tennis great should be someone who has won all four majors in a year. Otherwise you end up with too many Greats.
Happy now?
I agree the word 'great' is thrown around too easily today.
Looking at the history books only two players have ever won all four majors in one year. Rod Laver (twice) and Don Budge, who won six slams overall way back in the late 1930's. So does this mean, in your opinion they are the only two greats in men's tennis?
What if someone won 20 titles but never achieved the slam in a calendar year? Still not a great?
On one hand you say "If you want to define greatness by results, then so be it...." but on the other hand you are doing exactly the same thing by saying a great can only be defined IF they win all four slams in a calender year.
I think that this whole misunderstanding started on the back of a poorly worded post and just maybe you are being overly critical. Nadal might be considered a great (because to me, much of his greatness is on the back of an open he has been too dominant in with not enough competition) and has a fair way to go (because he is 27 and has spent quite a bit of time injured) and I am more comfortable labelling someone as Great once they are finished rather than 2/3rd's through their career.
Is that better?
Or would you like me to change it again so it conforms to your opinion of the definition of a great?
No that's fine. It's quite obvious you are someone who never likes to admit they may have got something wrong. Thanks anyway.
Hmm, I dont think that is the case. I have been proven wrong in the past and have conceded happily enough. I do think that the current "greats" are there based on the fact that they have lacked real competition throughout their career, but thats another story. Its not important to you, your more focussed on playing the man and trying to catch them in a war of words.
Good for you.
Hmm, I dont think that is the case. I have been proven wrong in the past and have conceded happily enough. I do think that the current "greats" are there based on the fact that they have lacked real competition throughout their career, but thats another story. Its not important to you, your more focussed on playing the man and trying to catch them in a war of words.
Good for you.
You still haven't answered my question. According to your definition of what defines a great, in your mind are Laver and Budge the only two greats of the game at this point in time?
In my opinion, quite possibly. I cant say I have put tonnes of thought and research into it. Going by my previous definition that may be accurate.
Irrespective different people will define a great differently.
In my opinion, quite possibly. I cant say I have put tonnes of thought and research into it. Going by my previous definition that may be accurate.
Irrespective different people will define a great differently.
Yep that's true. I think you're a bit tough on the likes of Federer, Sampras and Rafa but if that's your opinion then that's fair enough.
I like the look of Kokkinakis. Good Greek boy for a few of yas to follow. ;D
YIASOU.
I like the look of Kokkinakis. Good Greek boy for a few of yas to follow. ;D
YIASOU.
Looks like he has a future, and the experience of playing Rafa in a Grand Slam will help him no end.
Good luck kid.
I like the look of Kokkinakis. Good Greek boy for a few of yas to follow. ;D
YIASOU.
He and Nick Kyrigios are seen as real potentials for Aussie tennis... anything to oust that dingbat Tomic.
Tennis = Borrrrrrrring. >:(
It gets better when the better rated men play against each other closer to the final.
Tennis = Borrrrrrrring. >:(
With you there, Jofonski.
I'm only interested due to a very close Greek buddy's friendship with the two boys I mentioned... and Mrs Baggers watches it constantly (shhhhh, which means I can do other stuff while she is glued to the IB (idiot box). :)
Surely, the most boring award would have to go to soccer. Man, it would be the perfect game to watch in lieu of taking a sleeping pill. But unfortunately the commentators have a tendency to wake you up by screaming when nothing is happening. If the commentary matched the "action", it would have the same soporific commentary as occurs during golf tournaments.
Surely, the most boring award would have to go to soccer. Man, it would be the perfect game to watch in lieu of taking a sleeping pill. But unfortunately the commentators have a tendency to wake you up by screaming when nothing is happening. If the commentary matched the "action", it would have the same soporific commentary as occurs during golf tournaments.
Equestrian cross country events have the same effect. Although they never wake you up because nothing really happens. Even if someone falls off the horse, all you hear is "Ohhhhhhh, that's go to hurt and will ruin her chances of a victory", in a softly spoken voice. Zzzzzzzzz.
hard to argue that tennis hasn't become 'boring'.
It's too much about power....
Better racquets (like cricket bats?), everyone 190cm+ tall blah blah.
Give me Borg, McEnroe any day of the week.
Even the great former Federer, Nadal matches were more about the Fed choking mentally.
Surely, the most boring award would have to go to soccer. Man, it would be the perfect game to watch in lieu of taking a sleeping pill. But unfortunately the commentators have a tendency to wake you up by screaming when nothing is happening. If the commentary matched the "action", it would have the same soporific commentary as occurs during golf tournaments.
Mav. Hornet's nest. Opened. I agree, but let them get you first!!
Kyrgios blew it last night. 2 sets up to lose the next 3. I love the look of him though...forget Bernard, its all about kokkinakis and kyrgios. Impressed by both of them.
Tennis = Borrrrrrrring. >:(
Yet you feel compelled (forced?) to click on the thread and comment ::)
IMO, no sport is boring. Some people might find them unappealling, but that doesnt mean they are boring. It just means that some people dont have an appreciation for them.
They are all a bit unique, which is what makes them special.
PORTSEA POLO
IMO, no sport is boring. Some people might find them unappealling, but that doesnt mean they are boring. It just means that some people dont have an appreciation for them.
They are all a bit unique, which is what makes them special.
Who said 'golf is a good walk, ruined'? ;)
Kyrgios blew it last night. 2 sets up to lose the next 3. I love the look of him though...forget Bernard, its all about kokkinakis and kyrgios. Impressed by both of them.
Both have great potential if they pull their heads in in the next 5 to 10 years and keep up the work rate. Need to keep something different about their games. Not just trying to beat Nadal, Djokovic, Murray and the others with power from the baseline only. Be creative and figure out each players weaknesses. I like what I saw from the 17 and 18 year old.
Kyrgios blew it last night. 2 sets up to lose the next 3. I love the look of him though...forget Bernard, its all about kokkinakis and kyrgios. Impressed by both of them.
On the money there GozzMan. These two Greek boys have something Tomic doesn't have - ticker.
Tennis = Borrrrrrrring. >:(
The reason to watch = Maria Sharapova. I wouldn't care if she was playing darts. :P
Hantuchova is a sight for sore eyes, no doubt. Ivanovic isn't bad on the eyes either. ;)
https://www.google.com.au/search?q=hantuchova&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=RyXZUpm7CcjdkgWppIH4DQ&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAQ&biw=1366&bih=643#facrc=0%3Bhantuchova%20espn&imgdii=_&imgrc=_
https://www.google.com.au/search?q=ivanovic&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=KSbZUrHFI8WIlAXfiICIAw&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAQ&biw=1366&bih=643#facrc=_&imgdii=_&imgrc=6Clu2Nf7m5zLlM%253A%3BDc3fdK-YXzcjFM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fimages6.fanpop.com%252Fimage%252Fphotos%252F33700000%252FAna-Ivanovic-2010-Issue-swimsuit-si-33743751-666-879.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.fanpop.com%252Fclubs%252Fswimsuit-si%252Fimages%252F33743751%252Ftitle%252Fana-ivanovic-2010-issue-photo%3B666%3B879
I must be truly cynical! ;)
For me Tomic's decision to have elective surgery now is nothing more than a piss weak attempt to regain some sympathy for the poor efforts we have seen so far. A cursory glance at the papers will gain him some sympathy but is it warranted?
I have family members who have suffered hip spurs or growths similar to those Tomic will have removed. Most sports people play through these issues and organise off-season corrections. Most non-sports people live with them without correction and they are not worsened by exercise. This kid Tomic would have had this issue for years, maybe decades, and would have been playing with it as a junior. So for people connected to him to be linking his current injury is in my opinion at best very tenuous!
So I must be cynical, cut this dead weight Tomic loose and bring on the Special Ks!
I must be truly cynical! ;)
For me Tomic's decision to have elective surgery now is nothing more than a piss weak attempt to regain some sympathy for the poor efforts we have seen so far. A cursory glance at the papers will gain him some sympathy but is it warranted?
I have family members who have suffered hip spurs or growths similar to those Tomic will have removed. Most sports people play through these issues and organise off-season corrections. Most non-sports people live with them without correction and they are not worsened by exercise. This kid Tomic would have had this issue for years, maybe decades, and would have been playing with it as a junior. So for people connected to him to be linking his current injury is in my opinion at best very tenuous!
So I must be cynical, cut this dead weight Tomic loose and bring on the Special Ks!
I don't think this view is cynical. If it is then I'm a cynic as well. Word on the circuit (from a pretty reliable source) I received about 3 days ago was... pea heart. Time will tell. But these Greek boys, if they knuckle down (they like to party a bit!!!), could be anything.
I must be truly cynical! ;)
For me Tomic's decision to have elective surgery now is nothing more than a piss weak attempt to regain some sympathy for the poor efforts we have seen so far. A cursory glance at the papers will gain him some sympathy but is it warranted?
I have family members who have suffered hip spurs or growths similar to those Tomic will have removed. Most sports people play through these issues and organise off-season corrections. Most non-sports people live with them without correction and they are not worsened by exercise. This kid Tomic would have had this issue for years, maybe decades, and would have been playing with it as a junior. So for people connected to him to be linking his current injury is in my opinion at best very tenuous!
So I must be cynical, cut this dead weight Tomic loose and bring on the Special Ks!
I don't think this view is cynical. If it is then I'm a cynic as well. Word on the circuit (from a pretty reliable source) I received about 3 days ago was... pea heart. Time will tell. But these Greek boys, if they knuckle down (they like to party a bit!!!), could be anything.
So let me guess? You both bagged the sht out of him the other night, are proven to be wrong and perhaps look a little foolish and this is your way of cleaning things up? But of course Tomic cares that much about what people like yourselves think that he would pull himself out of tennis and have surgery he doesn't require just to appease the haters.
Just cop it on the chin like men and move on. ;)
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_ZHuBM57v13E/SXfYQ1PQNkI/AAAAAAAAE7I/01uZcTPBjHc/s1600/Ana_Ivanovic.jpg)
BOOM!
LOL@going into surgery as some cover up.
Think I might head down to the Austin, see if they can slip me in for some knee work after my boss was a dick last week
LOL@going into surgery as some cover up.
Think I might head down to the Austin, see if they can slip me in for some knee work after my boss was a dick last week
Yeap, beacuse that's exactly what elite sport people do, they have surgery just for PR ::)
So let me guess? You both bagged the sht out of him the other night, are proven to be wrong and perhaps look a little foolish and this is your way of cleaning things up? But of course Tomic cares that much about what people like yourselves think that he would pull himself out of tennis and have surgery he doesn't require just to appease the haters.
Just cop it on the chin like men and move on. ;)
It is elective surgery, just in case;
Elective (of surgical or medical treatment) chosen by the patient rather than urgently necessaryI don't see anywhere someone posted that he didn't need or want the surgery, PI2C you made that assumption wrongly and incorrectly accused Baggers and myself.
I said it was a condition he had been playing with for years at least and in my opinion the timing is at best lucrative so I remain cynical!
Does he care about us, you bet he does! What the general public think of him determines the price his sponsors are prepared to pay for his name! His name plunged in value faster than the stock market this week, and his PR people know it! I think he needed the surgery now more to save face with sponsors than to improve his game or health!
But as I said, Tomic should be cut loose as a lost cause, no more public money for him. The Special Ks are already showing more than Tomic has offered in total so far!
PS: If you scan through the media you will find a number of true champions of the past raising the same doubts. It is valid to remain a skeptic based on his past!
Fair enough LP that's your opinion. Does that also apply to a lot of AFL footballers who elect to have surgery during the season, including many Carlton players?
I would have thought that as an elite level even though it is elective the option is usually more forced as they need to compete at a higher level, consistently
I must be truly cynical! ;)
For me Tomic's decision to have elective surgery now is nothing more than a piss weak attempt to regain some sympathy for the poor efforts we have seen so far. A cursory glance at the papers will gain him some sympathy but is it warranted?
I have family members who have suffered hip spurs or growths similar to those Tomic will have removed. Most sports people play through these issues and organise off-season corrections. Most non-sports people live with them without correction and they are not worsened by exercise. This kid Tomic would have had this issue for years, maybe decades, and would have been playing with it as a junior. So for people connected to him to be linking his current injury is in my opinion at best very tenuous!
So I must be cynical, cut this dead weight Tomic loose and bring on the Special Ks!
I don't think this view is cynical. If it is then I'm a cynic as well. Word on the circuit (from a pretty reliable source) I received about 3 days ago was... pea heart. Time will tell. But these Greek boys, if they knuckle down (they like to party a bit!!!), could be anything.
So let me guess? You both bagged the sht out of him the other night, are proven to be wrong and perhaps look a little foolish and this is your way of cleaning things up? But of course Tomic cares that much about what people like yourselves think that he would pull himself out of tennis and have surgery he doesn't require just to appease the haters.
Just cop it on the chin like men and move on. ;)
It's called 'playing the sympathy card'. He's known for it. Soft. You're going to have to live with the fact, Turnips Old Cock, that your pin-up boy is just that, a boy. :)
Hes not my pin up boy it just annoys me so typical of the media to get on his back and Australians to follow suit. We've seen it all before.
The media and the public got on his back because we could all plainly see that he's a knob.
The media and the public got on his back because we could all plainly see that he's a knob.
If someone like monfils was Australian, he'd get the royal treatment from the media.
Tomic needs an international former slam coach - move away from his dad -and apply himself 100%
kids definitely got talent.
ATM - it looks ominously similar to scud - more slams than grand slams
The media and the public got on his back because we could all plainly see that he's a knob.
If someone like monfils was Australian, he'd get the royal treatment from the media.
Tomic needs an international former slam coach - move away from his dad -and apply himself 100%
kids definitely got talent.
ATM - it looks ominously similar to scud - more slams than grand slams
The silly thing is he has far more potential than the Scud. He has the ability to win points from his ground strokes and not rely on his power serve. He just needs to work harder than he has before and stay out of trouble. Start winning more often and appear to be the good guy like Federer and Djokovic and the media will get off his case. So will his fans. He has to decide things need to change first.
The media and the public got on his back because we could all plainly see that he's a knob.
If someone like monfils was Australian, he'd get the royal treatment from the media.
Tomic needs an international former slam coach - move away from his dad -and apply himself 100%
kids definitely got talent.
ATM - it looks ominously similar to scud - more slams than grand slams
The silly thing is he has far more potential than the Scud. He has the ability to win points from his ground strokes and not rely on his power serve. He just needs to work harder than he has before and stay out of trouble. Start winning more often and appear to be the good guy like Federer and Djokovic and the media will get off his case. So will his fans. He has to decide things need to change first.
he needs to develop his skills and application out of this country - I cant imagine
any Australian post Hewitt becoming No 1 again. Media are savages here
the media have been kind to him imo.
Hes not my pin up boy it just annoys me so typical of the media to get on his back and Australians to follow suit. We've seen it all before.
Its true.
Hewitt was a complete knob but the abuse of the linesman (or was it woman) in the US open never gets mentioned by people these days because he is just "so brave". A bit like the Bombers. Who can do no wrong according to the media.
Tomic is guilty of having made some bad choices to the age of 21. Big whoop. He isn't the first, and won't be the last.
The young Greek boys are already being dubbed party boys. One is 17, the other 18. Where could they possibly be getting up to no good, when one is from Canberra and the other is from Adelaide, and even if they did spend the next 4 years partying, big deal. They are kids. Let them behave like it. Getting on their back in the media will not yield result and ultimately, teenage and early 20's boys all have the number one priority of getting a certain part of their anatomy wet and that's about it.
So let me guess? You both bagged the sht out of him the other night, are proven to be wrong and perhaps look a little foolish and this is your way of cleaning things up? But of course Tomic cares that much about what people like yourselves think that he would pull himself out of tennis and have surgery he doesn't require just to appease the haters.
Just cop it on the chin like men and move on. ;)
It is elective surgery, just in case; Elective (of surgical or medical treatment) chosen by the patient rather than urgently necessary
I don't see anywhere someone posted that he didn't need or want the surgery, PI2C you made that assumption wrongly and incorrectly accused Baggers and myself.
I said it was a condition he had been playing with for years at least and in my opinion the timing is at best lucrative so I remain cynical!
Does he care about us, you bet he does! What the general public think of him determines the price his sponsors are prepared to pay for his name! His name plunged in value faster than the stock market this week, and his PR people know it! I think he needed the surgery now more to save face with sponsors than to improve his game or health!
But as I said, Tomic should be cut loose as a lost cause, no more public money for him. The Special Ks are already showing more than Tomic has offered in total so far!
PS: If you scan through the media you will find a number of true champions of the past raising the same doubts. It is valid to remain a skeptic based on his past!
Listen to thjs spin. It's elective surgery now. Haha! You're a first class knocker, and now proven wrong once again bagging an injured bloke you can't admit it...weak! You called him soft and he was injured now admit you were wrong...yet again! Otherwise you'll never get any respect.
The silly thing is he has far more potential than the Scud. He has the ability to win points from his ground strokes and not rely on his power serve. He just needs to work harder than he has before and stay out of trouble. Start winning more often and appear to be the good guy like Federer and Djokovic and the media will get off his case. So will his fans. He has to decide things need to change first.
Joker was the same as a young bloke, it wasn't until he felt the sting of the media and the wrath of sponsors that he turned it all around. If the public give in to Tomic excuses he will make them his whole career and never see real success, some of the older tennis greats are making this very point, he needs to accept that to be good or even great you have to find ways to compete when things are not in your favor.
I think Tomic has been mis-managed by tennis in Australia, I doubt he will see much success until he leaves for foreign shores!
The Scud analogy is very good, I bet the Scud is now wishing he had spent less time buying sports cars and more time training!
Listen to thjs spin. It's elective surgery now. Haha! You're a first class knocker, and now proven wrong once again bagging an injured bloke you can't admit it...weak! You called him soft and he was injured now admit you were wrong...yet again! Otherwise you'll never get any respect.
At least Tomic's PR people can take heart in the knowledge that they have worked their magic on at least one person! ;)
...and those PR people were working their craft rather nicely with vison of the knob on the teev with scans in hand and that resigned and somewhat forlorn expression on his swede. Contrived - deliberately created rather than arising naturally or spontaneously.
(ever seen any other sports person examining their x-ray? - never seen an AFL player fishing for sympathy by looking at something that he wouldn't really understand, besides, the surgeon would have explained everything to him inside...)
Where did he find these doctors who perform surgery on people who don't need it? Fully disclosed on TV no less?
I know, he wasn't actually in a hospital. It was all set up in a TV studio... the same one the moon landing was shot in. If you look closely, his doctor is actually Nick Riviera. Good choice as he comes cheap:
(http://web.mst.edu/~price/cs53/ws12/dr_nick_12995.gif)
;D
Where did he find these doctors who perform surgery on people who don't need it? Fully disclosed on TV no less?
Again IOT, nobody stated that he did not have a condition that could be corrected by elective surgery, but lets not turn a voluntary procedure into urgent medical condition! FAI is a condition takes decades to develop and is not made worse by exercise or physical stress.
So that appears to me to leave two Tomic camp scenarios;
1/ They only just found it while looking at something else as they reported in the press. That means he was playing all his career with it without knowledge or problems.
2/ Or they have known about it for a long time, and have only now decided to have the work done, which is to say the least convenient!
Both scenarios raise equally valid questions about the validity of the announcements.
As for that TV skit I firmly agree with Baggers, FFS what a stunt! If the kid doesn't want to play Davis Cup again just say so and wear the financial consequences, don't blame a MRI or X-Ray! He can go off and have his "elective surgery" and nobody will gives a feck!
As for the behavior of fans, I hear little from the defenders of Bernard about the public treatment of his little sister. I assume this means they think she doesn't need or deserve protection, why isn't she a good enough player? That crowd behavior was blatant bullying and should be widely labeled a disgrace.
I feel sorry for his little sister, but I feel disdain for Bernard, his reputation precedes him!
Where did he find these doctors who perform surgery on people who don't need it? Fully disclosed on TV no less?
Again IOT, nobody stated that he did not have a condition that could be corrected by elective surgery, but lets not turn a voluntary procedure into urgent medical condition! FAI is a condition takes decades to develop and is not made worse by exercise or physical stress.
So that appears to me to leave two Tomic camp scenarios;
1/ They only just found it while looking at something else as they reported in the press. That means he was playing all his career with it without knowledge or problems.
2/ Or they have known about it for a long time, and have only now decided to have the work done, which is to say the least convenient!
Both scenarios raise equally valid questions about the validity of the announcements.
As for that TV skit I firmly agree with Baggers, FFS what a stunt! If the kid doesn't want to play Davis Cup again just say so and wear the financial consequences, don't blame a MRI or X-Ray! He can go off and have his "elective surgery" and nobody will gives a feck!
As for the behavior of fans, I hear little from the defenders of Bernard about the public treatment of his little sister. I assume this means they think she doesn't need or deserve protection, why isn't she a good enough player? That crowd behavior was blatant bullying and should be widely labeled a disgrace.
I feel sorry for his little sister, but I feel disdain for Bernard, his reputation precedes him!
I call BS to your scenarios in Bold.
Lets say for arguments sake that it is FAI.
http://www.hipfai.com/
From the link above, FAI is common in:
"FAI is associated with cartilage damage, labral tears, early hip arthritis, hyperlaxity, sports hernias, and low back pain.
FAI is common in high level athletes, but also occurs in active individuals."
Diagnosis:
The diagnosis can be straightforward or a diagnosis of exclusion. Most patients can be diagnosed with a good history, physical exam, and plain x-ray films. A patient’s history will generally involve complaints of hip pain (front, side, or back) and loss of hip motion. The physical exam will generally confirm the patient’s history and eliminate other causes of hip pain. The plain x-ray films are used to determine the shape of the ball and socket as well as assess the amount of joint space in the hip. Less joint space is generally associated with more arthritis.
Often an MRI of the hip is used to confirm a labral tear or damage to the joint surface. The MRI is most helpful in eliminating certain causes of non FAI hip pain including avascular necrosis (dead bone) and tumors. A normal MRI does not preclude cartilage injury, labral tears, or FAI.
This is consistent to his post match press conference in which Tomic advised he was taking pain killers for the condition which started bothering him during the Davis Cup in Perth only a couple of weeks earlier. Like OP in Houlihan (undiagnosed for YEARS) how do we know what he thought was normal was just an undiagnosed condition?
What other diagnosis can be confused with FAI:
Groin Pull (Adductor Strain)
Why did he pull out again? Oh thats right a grade one strain in the Groin... Perhaps it is FAI and they were not sure.
With what activities is FAI associated?
Tennis
Pretty much any requiring twisting and movement, but given its listed and this is his sport, its worthwhile noting that down.
Why does it occur?:
No one knows if FAI is a condition that begins at birth (congenital and genetic association) or develops during periods of growth (acquired). It is likely a combination of one’s genetics and environment.
How did I get it?
Some experts believe that significant athletic activity before skeletal maturity increases the risk of FAI, but no one truly knows.
Bernard Tomic turned 21 last year. Has been a "proffesional for just on about 3-4 years, and its entirely plausible that this condition developed during his final growing stages.
The last part worth addressing:
What are my treatment options?
Nonoperative management of FAI is possible; however, it involves a change in lifestyle from active to less active and a commitment to maintaining hip strength. Nonoperative management will not change the underlying abnormal hip biomechanics of FAI and may contribute to further hip degeneration..
Didnt you say this?
nobody stated that he did not have a condition that could be corrected by elective surgery, but lets not turn a voluntary procedure into urgent medical condition! FAI is a condition takes decades to develop and is not made worse by exercise or physical stress. The link I have quoted indicates that the situation is a little more serious than you understand. That's okay we are all exploring things together here.
Operative management of FAI can be addressed via hip arthroscopy or open surgery. In hip arthroscopy, the hip is distracted and an arthroscope is used to make an assessment of the hip joint and treat damage that is found through two to four 1 cm incisions. Often, all of the components of FAI such as the labral tear, damaged cartilage, and friction between the ball and socket can be treated through the arthroscope. Repair of a torn labrum as well as stimulating new cartilage growth (microfracture) are often possible with the arthroscopic approach. A hip arthroscopy involving labral debridement (no repair) and no bony decompression usually takes less than one hour. A hip arthroscopy involving labral/cartilage repair and FAI decompression may take between two and four hours, depending on the amount of work performed. Care must be taken to avoid damage to the hip's blood supply (the retinacular vessels) during the osteoplasty procedure.
The open surgical hip dislocation involves an incision (approximately 6 to 10 inches), an osteotomy or bone cutting of the upper thigh bone, and dislocation of the ball from the socket exposing all parts of the joint. This exposure allows treatment of labral tears and abnormal contact between the ball and socket while protecting the blood supply to the hip. The open approach can typically be done in a few hours. The open approach is not generally recommended in older patients, in patients with significant hip degeneration, or in patients with significant athletic/activity demands..
Recovery time from most arthroscopic FAI surgical procedures is about 3 to 4 months to full, unrestricted activity. Your postoperative activity level will depend on your surgeon’s recommendation, the type of surgery performed, and the condition of the hip joint at the time of surgery. Revision FAI surgery may involve a significantly longer recovery.
Looks like this link explains the condition in a way that suits what we are seeing both privately and publically from Bernard. It explains everything, and makes the whole scenario entirely plausible.
From what I can see, he is better off having this surgery now, so at worst he can participate in the US open in August, and if he is lucky and the damage is only minor he might even make it back in time for the French open in May and/or Wimbledon in June. Managing this condition all season is likely to result in more of what we saw at the Australian open (early finishing in matches) and if he waits too long, then you can write off his entire year in terms of the major tournaments as well as adding anything to his game. He will effectively tread water as the world ranked number 50 player at best. This is no different to a player electing to have surgery after round 1 in order to be ready for the second half of the season, rather than managing an injury through an entire year just to not be able to play come the business end of the season.
Sorry LP, but it looks like the facts dont help you in this argument at all. You wont hear anyone apologising to Bernie. Not even on a sports forum, but every single media person who has criticised him should be ashamed of themselves. They would have preffered he stood there and got dismantled by Nadal. Perhaps that was going to be more worth while because at least he might have avoided being called a pea heart, but the competitor in him might have made him push himself and cause further damage to whatever groin injury they first thought he was managing.
In any case, only he knows how it feels, and only he and his doctors know what is the right course of action. Perhaps he should have just copped it silly from Nadal. Perhaps not.
Can't argue with any of that.....though I'm sure he'll find a way! :P
Yep. I'm not a Tomic fan in the slightest, in fact I can't stand him. But the crap being flung around about him pulling out is ridiculous. Some people have a certain view and are unable to be objective.
He was injured. Pure and simple.
Sorry LP, but it looks like the facts dont help you in this argument at all. You wont hear anyone apologising to Bernie. Not even on a sports forum, but every single media person who has criticised him should be ashamed of themselves.
Rubbish.
Your "facts" are drawn from the a website run by a corporation that profits from IP related to the diagnosis of FAI. It is in their interest to tell you that all roads lead to FAI. Consulting that website is like asking Maurice Blackburn Compensation Lawyers for an unbiased opinion on an industrial accident.
If you are going to quote websites go back and do your homework from a valid source like AAOS (American Association of Orthopedic Surgeons.) If you had you would have found that not only is FAI at best a questionable diagnosis, many Orthos believe the condition does not even exist, but also that there is no evidence to support that if it does exist that it is made worse by physical activity. Points that are conveniently missing from the website you offered.
Secondly, the claim of FAI as quoted is coming from the Tomic camp not any accusation anyone has made. It was also Tomic's camp that claimed the diagnosis was only made after they looked for the groin tear! So if my discussing Tomic's alleged FAI is BS then the BS is coming from Tomic himself!
If you cannot see the inconsistencies in their reported statements it is not my problem.
Feck me a sports person with a sore hip, so much bad luck for one person, he must be jinxed! Good luck to him, making a living in a career that requires him to be pushed to his physical limits with allegedly $30K just for a few minutes work.
http://orthoinfo.aaos.org/topic.cfm?topic=A00571
You asked, and you shall receive LP.
Femoroacetabular impingement (FAI) is a condition where the bones of the hip are abnormally shaped. Because they do not fit together perfectly, the hip bones rub against each other and cause damage to the joint.
So, once you start having this, according to you, it wont get worse? Bone on bone rubbing together due to being irregularly shaped, and you are going to state that the condition cannot worsen?
How FAI Progresses
It is not known how many people may have FAI. Some people may live long, active lives with FAI and never have problems. When symptoms develop, however, it usually indicates that there is damage to the cartilage or labrum and the disease is likely to progress. Symptoms may include pain, stiffness, and limping.
In FAI, bone spurs develop around the femoral head and/or along the acetabulum. The bone overgrowth causes the hip bones to hit against each other, rather than to move smoothly. Over time, this can result in the tearing of the labrum and breakdown of articular cartilage (osteoarthritis).
Looks like the place you asked me to research backs up the other web page's assertion that once you start suffering from this condition its likely to get worse.
Cause:
FAI occurs because the hip bones do not form normally during the childhood growing years. It is the deformity of a cam bone spur, pincer bone spur, or both, that leads to joint damage and pain. When the hip bones are shaped abnormally, there is little that can be done to prevent FAI.
Because athletically active people may work the hip joint more vigorously, they may begin to experience pain earlier than those who are less active. However, exercise does not cause FAI.
So in people who have the condition exercise will mean pain earlier. Perhaps this would be highlighted most in a 21 year old proffesional athlete. You would think so anyway. You are looked at one line, that exercise does not cause FAI and using it to condemn Bernard. Fair enough I suppose. After all, he is just trying to save face after having a regulation groin strain and is having an op to keep up appearances. In fact, he isnt even having an op, he is just saying he is to suit this agenda...
Treatment
Nonsurgical Treatment
Activity changes. Your doctor may first recommend simply changing your daily routine and avoiding activities that cause symptoms.
Non-steroidal anti-inflammatory medications. Drugs like ibuprofen can be provided in a prescription-strength form to help reduce pain and inflammation.
Physical therapy. Specific exercises can improve the range of motion in your hip and strengthen the muscles that support the joint. This can relieve some stress on the injured labrum or cartilage.
Surgical Treatment
If tests show joint damage caused by FAI and your pain is not relieved by nonsurgical treatment, your doctor may recommend surgery.
Many FAI problems can be treated with arthroscopic surgery. Arthroscopic procedures are done with small incisions and thin instruments. The surgeon uses a small camera, called an arthroscope, to view inside the hip.
During arthroscopy, your doctor can repair or clean out any damage to the labrum and articular cartilage. He or she can correct the FAI by trimming the bony rim of the acetabulum and also shaving down the bump on the femoral head. Some severe cases may require an open operation with a larger incision to accomplish this.
Long-Term Outcomes
Surgery can successfully reduce symptoms caused by impingement. Correcting the impingement can prevent future damage to the hip joint. However, not all of the damage can be completely fixed by surgery, especially if treatment has been put off and the damage is severe. It is possible that more problems may develop in the future.
While there is a small chance that surgery might not help, it is currently the best way to treat painful FAI.
That last bolded bit indicates that putting it off might be the worst situation possible, and would thoroughly explain why he is having surgery to correct a regulation groin strain that would be at worst a 3 week recovery for any condition, and also fits why he is having the surgery ASAP.
This will bring his Tennis career to a premature end, and will prevent him reaching the heights that he might have been able to achieve.
It also indicates that his surgery is anything but being pea hearted.
http://orthoinfo.aaos.org/topic.cfm?topic=A00571
You asked, and you shall receive LP.
You still failed to connect the progression of a spur or cam with exercise, there is no evidence of it being progressed by exercise and that is the case the AAOS make.
As the website states the progression of the disease is generally considered to be genetic and not related to exercise. It links the deterioration of the labrum to exercise, with or without the presence of FAI like condition and that is obviously why the AAOS can successfully argue for the lack of evidence that an FAI like condition is an contributing cause.
Some Orthos state more study is required, others state there is already enough evidence to prove it isn't worth proceeding.
In my opinion the Tomic camp is building a bridge between a set of disparate conditions to justify his withdrawal and that bridge is at best very tenuous. Tomic's post tournament scan and proclamation of FAI with his withdrawal from the tournament as a causal effect of a groin strain (Grade 1) is just a grandstand attempt to save face! Excuses, excuses. AFL players are managed through whole seasons with equivalent injuries and that is in a sport that includes heavy direct hip contact.
By definition FAI is a disease of genetic origin, it develops over a very very long term, it is not something to progress over one tournament. So why do you pull the trigger in a match when your sport has only a couple of such opportunities a year, not likely if you have a Grade 1 tear. That would be like an AFL player pulling out of a GF with a bruise, it just would not happen!
I am not sure why Tomic's team would even announce that he has a genetic condition, think about it from a sponsor's point of view. If Tomic's claims are true as a sponsor do you spend your money on a bloke who has a questionable long term sporting future or do you back the up and coming kids? I think Tomic's team dig themselves a bigger whole with every utterance and every new excuse!
Add to that it is disrespectful, like diving for a penalty in soccer. It is at least as disrespectful as Serena Williams claiming back injuries after her shock loss to Ivanovic, and Williams is being lambasted in the media about her press conference. Serena should have just shut up and said was beaten and a well played to Ivanovic. She was beaten on the day and the excuses post match are pathetic!
There seems to be a culture in tennis, players collapsing from heat, injuries and illness, but only when they are likely to lose! Would Tomic have pulled the pin if he had a good draw and was likely to progress to a bigger pay cheque?
I think Tomic's team dig themselves a bigger whole with every utterance and every new excuse!
You could learn from that! :P
I think Tomic's team dig themselves a bigger whole with every utterance and every new excuse!
You could learn from that! :P
Yes, I have learned Tomic is a spud don't sponsor him! ;D
It's interesting to contrast Tomic with the attitude of Sharapova who has been playing with a hip injury for eight months!
Tomic pulls the pin a few seconds in under oppressive conditions against an opponent he can't beat, with a condition he finds out about days later after the crap hits the media fan. Is that a good description?
William's blames a back injury after her "shock loss", holding back tears and sitting there like she "Can't believe she is sitting there!"
Sharapova enters the tournament with known hip and shoulder injuries. Makes it through several rounds some in the 40 degree heat, and then vows after her loss to come back better than ever. Where do we find some more players like that instead of the Prima Donna's we are lumped with at the moment!
Nobody forces anyone to like him, move on ::)
It's interesting to contrast Tomic with the attitude of Sharapova who has been playing with a hip injury for eight months!
Tomic pulls the pin a few seconds in under oppressive conditions against an opponent he can't beat, with a condition he finds out about days later after the crap hits the media fan. Is that a good description?
William's blames a back injury after her "shock loss", holding back tears and sitting there like she "Can't believe she is sitting there!"
Sharapova enters the tournament with known hip and shoulder injuries. Makes it through several rounds some in the 40 degree heat, and then vows after her loss to come back better than ever. Where do we find some more players like that instead of the Prima Donna's we are lumped with at the moment!
Good call, Sharapova's just a class act (apart from the screeching !). Speaking of class acts, Roger blew Tsonga off the court last night. Looked very, very good. But what sort of a horror draw has he got !
cheers
Mal.
Malo he either would have had Nadal or Djokovic. All the others including Murray are beatable. It wouldn't make much difference what side of the draw he would be on. He needs to find a way to beat Nadal and Djokovic. Stefan Edberg might just be the man to make it happen. His serve volley game might be what it takes. this baseline rally type tennis plays right into Nadal and Djokovics hands. All the others can be beaten because they are a class level below the two top players. Federer is in a class between the two. If he can prove a point he may get to be number one all over again. One can wish. ;)
The Joker out :o
The Joker out :o
Wawrinka is a good player and mimics his game off Federer. Just with more power. That typical swiss one handed backhand shot. he played well and held his first service to a high percentage which helped. Powerfull player but just can't let himself be intimidated by his opponent, because he has never gone this far in tennis. For his years in the game it is unusual. If the Joker was going to lose, I was happy to see Rinka do it. Love quality swiss and Swedish players. As humble as they come. ;)
Fed putting on a clinic against Murray (watch this jinx)
Fed putting on a clinic against Murray (watch this jinx)
He is so good to watch.
Fed putting on a clinic against Murray (watch this jinx)
He is so good to watch.
REALLY ? It is definitely not one of his better games at all. Murray is not up to winning after his back surgery. Federer was great in the first set. Since then he has been ordinary by comparison. If he brings this game against Nadal, he will lose in straight sets.
Fed putting on a clinic against Murray (watch this jinx)
He is so good to watch.
REALLY ? It is definitely not one of his better games at all. Murray is not up to winning after his back surgery. Federer was great in the first set. Since then he has been ordinary by comparison. If he brings this game against Nadal, he will lose in straight sets.
Federer was much better against Tsonga granted but Fed can take Rafa who looks out of sorts imo....
Heck, baby Fed should have been 2-1 up today (sets).
Did you just see him choke in the 3rd set tie break ? What was he 6-3 or 6-4 up and had the 2 serves to go to close out the set. Ends up losing 8-6 ? Its like he is just chipping the ball back straight to Murray and depending on Murray missing a shot to win the point. This style of tennis will not beat a Wawrinka, Nadal or any decent player.
Fed putting on a clinic against Murray (watch this jinx)
He is so good to watch.
REALLY ? It is definitely not one of his better games at all. Murray is not up to winning after his back surgery. Federer was great in the first set. Since then he has been ordinary by comparison. If he brings this game against Nadal, he will lose in straight sets.
Federer was much better against Tsonga granted but Fed can take Rafa who looks out of sorts imo....
Heck, baby Fed should have been 2-1 up today (sets).
The commentators were saying last night that Rafa has bad blisters on his hand which is preventing him from holding the racquet as he normally would. Can't serve properly either.
Fed at $2.40 is looking juicy.
Did you just see him choke in the 3rd set tie break ? What was he 6-3 or 6-4 up and had the 2 serves to go to close out the set. Ends up losing 8-6 ? Its like he is just chipping the ball back straight to Murray and depending on Murray missing a shot to win the point. This style of tennis will not beat a Wawrinka, Nadal or any decent player.
He played way too passively - granted but better to do it 2-0 up against Murray than Rafa.....
Hopefully, he'll learn from it.
Id be getting on Wawrinka or Byrdich from here. Dont think the winner will come from this side of the draw.
Id be getting on Wawrinka or Byrdich from here. Dont think the winner will come from this side of the draw.
Went for the Djoker initially but I think the Fed Express and Li Na will take the money......
Id be getting on Wawrinka or Byrdich from here. Dont think the winner will come from this side of the draw.
The Wawrinka vs Berdych Head to Head stands at 8-5, with three consecutive victories for the Swiss out of four meetings in 2013.
http://www.stevegtennis.com/2014/01/stanislas-wawrinka-vs-tomas-berdych-preview-australian-open-2014-sf/ (http://www.stevegtennis.com/2014/01/stanislas-wawrinka-vs-tomas-berdych-preview-australian-open-2014-sf/)
Don't see either beating Rafa or Roger in a Slam final....
http://www.atpworldtour.com/Players/Head-To-Head.aspx?pId=F324&oId=W367 (http://www.atpworldtour.com/Players/Head-To-Head.aspx?pId=F324&oId=W367)
http://www.atpworldtour.com/Players/Head-To-Head.aspx?pId=N409&oId=W367 (http://www.atpworldtour.com/Players/Head-To-Head.aspx?pId=N409&oId=W367)
Wawrinka into his first grand slam final. Great work and wouldn't it be great to see an all Swiss final. It ain't going to happen. Nadal will thrash the pants off Fed Ex and take another title for his efforts for certain. If only Dimitrov missed less of his shots, it could have been a completely different story. The womens final are not 2 of the original favourites. Completely against what I thought, but the mens only has Djokovic missing. The rest is no surprise at all.
Wawrinka into his first grand slam final. Great work and wouldn't it be great to see an all Swiss final. It ain't going to happen. Nadal will thrash the pants off Fed Ex and take another title for his efforts for certain. If only Dimitrov missed less of his shots, it could have been a completely different story. The womens final are not 2 of the original favourites. Completely against what I thought, but the mens only has Djokovic missing. The rest is no surprise at all.
Nadal having all sorts of issues with blisters on his playing hand. Certainly not at his best atm.
Id be getting on Wawrinka or Byrdich from here. Dont think the winner will come from this side of the draw.
The Wawrinka vs Berdych Head to Head stands at 8-5, with three consecutive victories for the Swiss out of four meetings in 2013.
http://www.stevegtennis.com/2014/01/stanislas-wawrinka-vs-tomas-berdych-preview-australian-open-2014-sf/ (http://www.stevegtennis.com/2014/01/stanislas-wawrinka-vs-tomas-berdych-preview-australian-open-2014-sf/)
Don't see either beating Rafa or Roger in a Slam final....
http://www.atpworldtour.com/Players/Head-To-Head.aspx?pId=F324&oId=W367 (http://www.atpworldtour.com/Players/Head-To-Head.aspx?pId=F324&oId=W367)
http://www.atpworldtour.com/Players/Head-To-Head.aspx?pId=N409&oId=W367 (http://www.atpworldtour.com/Players/Head-To-Head.aspx?pId=N409&oId=W367)
Its odd, but there is one thing that goes out of the window in a "grand final" and that is previous records.
History shows, that it doesnt really make too much of a difference (unless you look at records in a grand slam final).
In any case, based on the data I have (which is my own eyes watching matches) I would say that Federer has been exceptional at preventing himself from getting involved in baseline rallies, and has used this to keep himself in the competition. Thing is, against Murray I saw the cracks appearing in his game. Murray with a bad back and limited motion was able to win the third set against Roger. He is clearly past his best, and I would think that he would be playing his grand final to get past Nadal, and then have to repeat the effort in 2 days. Wawrinka gets the benefit of an extra day's break prior to the mens final so he will be "fresher" than the victor of Rafa or Roger.
Rafa has the blisters which are clearly preventing him from being able to play his usual game.
Either way, (I hate to say it as I dont find him endearing) I think Wawrinka will win.
I want Rafa to win it, but I think he is going to struggle against Federer tonight but will ensure that Federer is taxed to get through the match.
Actually, I think this has all the hallmarks of a smashing. Good luck to Fed, would love to see him make a final (and then win it) but I see reality hitting hard tonight.
Thry, Federer has finally conceded that he needs to make changes. He's a bit of a fuddy-duddy. He tends to spurn changes in the game rather than embracing them. For instance, he hates Hawk/Eagle Eye and for a long time was pathetic in his use of it. His success rate was ridiculously low for a guy whose eye must be so much better than the ordinary bloke. He has clung onto the smaller raquet while everyone else has milked every possible benefit from bigger raquets and the latest developments. It was a bit like Bjorn Borg trying to use a wooden raquet when he attempted a comeback after everyone else had moved to composite raquets. And this tendency has been magnified by refusing to hire a coach for anything more than ad hoc advice.
It seems that all this has now changed. I'd imagine Boris Becker is there to modify his game strategies rather than honing his well-settled technique. He has moved to a bigger raquet to generate more power. And physically, he's over the injuries which restricted him last year, at least for the moment.
The only question is whether he's had enough time to settle into those changes. But he has shown during this Australian Open that he's working towards attacking the net periodically with a view no doubt to combat Nadal's strategy of kicking the ball high against his single-handed backhand. That means that he should be more able to pursue that strategy than when he was coaching himself and had no one who could pressure him to stay aggressive.
Then we have the issue of how much the blisters on Nadal's hand will affect him. And then there's the issue of whether the roof will be closed and whether the cooler temperature will favour Nadal by slowing up the ball, and whether it will also help Federer by reducing the kick Nadal's top spin can produce.
Stefan Edberg, Mav ;-)
Yep, wrong old guy! An interesting choice to go after such a great serve-volleyer.
Federer changing racquets would do little for his game, it may even make things worse!
There is little evidence in elite sports, at least those that require anything more than pure power, that a power benefit helps.
Tennis like golf is mostly about control and consistency, playing and practicing with consistent equipment to minimise variation offers far greater benefit than upgrading every five minutes. Federer has decades of muscle memory developed around the type of racquet that he uses, changing at his age might help his serve but could be very detrimental to his control. Once he starts to lose control things may change, but at the moment he has control a plenty. If his game lacks anything I would say it is motivation!
As for the myriad of hacks using jumbo racquets, perhaps they are just has-beens looking for some psychological "Mine is bigger than yours" boost!
Not sure that there's much need to look for evidence that improvements in raquet technology can improve performance. It's not just an issue of increasing power, although that is part of it. A larger raquet can have a larger sweet spot which in turn helps with control when heavy spin is being imparted. Then you have recent developments in synthetic strings which allow better spin as well. Taken together, the advantages are considerable.
But you don't have to look too far to see evidence that playing equipment that allows greater power to be generated helps elite athletes. For a start, Tennis is an obvious example. Modern raquets have changed the game. Serve-volleying was a strong strategy with smaller wooden raquets but is now a thing of the past as modern raquets allow more accurate and powerful passing shots. Cricket is another example. Thin bats have been replaced by softer but thicker bats and that has enable bigger hitting. Not sure your search for evidence has been very thorough.
http://www.businessinsider.com.au/roger-federer-racket-switch-2014-1 (http://www.businessinsider.com.au/roger-federer-racket-switch-2014-1)
Fed went from a 90 sq. in. (crazy man) to a 98 sq. in. (finally). Not moving sooner most likely cost him 3-5 majors imo.
Nadal has been using a 100 sq. in. bat for years....
http://www.tennis-warehouse.com/Babolat_AeroPro_Drive/descpageRCBAB-APD13.html (http://www.tennis-warehouse.com/Babolat_AeroPro_Drive/descpageRCBAB-APD13.html)
How can the greatest player of the modern era (RF) have an opponent lurking around who has a 22 / 10 winning record against him?? The stas aren't even close. Where does that leave Rafa?
How can the greatest player of the modern era (RF) have an opponent lurking around who has a 22 / 10 winning record against him?? The stas aren't even close. Where does that leave Rafa?
Bit of arrogance from Roger. Early on, Rafa wasn't good enough to take him on in surfaces other than clay. By the time Rafa started to adapt his game to the other surface the mental edge was established. Roger then refused to change his game to beat Rafa.
Jim Courier makes the point that in 2008, when Rafa beat Federer in the Australian Open and also in Wimbledon, Federer was suffering from Glandular Fever or at least its after-effects. Courier says that it was remarkable that Federer won the US Open in that year.
When is the AFL moving to a Hawkeye system?
Roger needs to win one of these long rallies.
Roger needs to win one of these long rallies.
Roger is done. Game over. Nadal wins the first set means game is finished. I knew Fed would choke with his service game.
I knew Fed would choke with his service game.
He hasn't actually lost a service game yet. It's a bit harsh to say he's chocked it.
Few stray backhands and that's the set.
I knew Fed would choke with his service game.
He hasn't actually lost a service game yet. It's a bit harsh to say he's chocked it.
Few stray backhands and that's the set.
2 sets to nil. He is about to go out in straight sets. Better off to retire this year, before he becomes a has been. I thought his coach Edberg said he has all the tools to become the number one ranked male tennis player ?
I think he's playing pretty well, Rafa is just better but it's not by much.
I think he's playing pretty well, Rafa is just better but it's not by much.
Probably, but Rafa has a blister which is now bare raw flesh on his hand the size of a 50 cent coin. Imagine if his hand was good. Murray lost with a dodgey back and ankle straps, which really restricted his running ability to Fed and not a convincing loss. Old man that I loved more than any tennis player ever, and still do is out of his league. If he goes down in the last set and its 3 sets to nill, its a spanking. I don't care how close in each set it is. Its not semi final grand slam quality at all. He just doesn't have the aggressive nature he needs through an entire match and tries to get too cute. Saying that I think he just broke Rafas serve. Back soon buddy for one last hope. ;)
I agree that Roger needs to learn to win ugly, its like hed rather lose than not have people in awe. But he is playing some good shots and in lots of rallies. Don't see why he'd give it away when making semis.
I agree that Roger needs to learn to win ugly, its like hed rather lose than not have people in awe. But he is playing some good shots and in lots of rallies. Don't see why he'd give it away when making semis.
I really can't wait to see Kokkinakis, Kyrios, Dimitrov and Tomic all mature and be guns in a few years time. These guys have potential beyond belief. Federer, I will enjoy some points here and there, but as I stated in a thread a long time ago, will never, ever win another grand slam, ever in his life again. Never. 3-0 in this one is about as bad as the other 4 kids above would have done, and they don't have the experience Fed has. So Fed move on and let the younger kids have a chance.
I can only hope Wawrinka can take it to Rafa. I don't like Rafa and never did. Go Stan, but on that note I probably jinxed him, and he will lose for certain now. :(
Absolute shocker from Roger - from the very first point when he sprayed a backhand long off a Nadal 3-4 serve......
Choking is being polite - he is Rafa's bunny.
All the confidence, aggression, system, even power seen in the Tsonga and most of the Murray match out the window.
50 unforced errors. Most shanks.
Whatever his plan was to try and beat Nadal, he left it in the locker room.
Kudos Nadal.
If Rafa wins tomorrow night I believe he becomes only the second man (Laver being the first) to have won every slam twice. He will go to 14 slams, only 3 behind Federer who probably is done. And he's only 27. Also has absolutely dominated the player many believe to be the greatest ever.
Pretty good chance he will be the recognised as the greatest when he retires.
The difference between Rasfa and Roger (from Rafa's post match interview):
Q. You served almost exclusively to his backhand. Is that knowledge you require by knowing him so well, playing him so many times?
RAFAEL NADAL: I serve what I can serve. I serve at the position that I feel that I will have the chance to start better the point. And today I felt that serving against his backhand I had the chance to start the point with little bit of an advantage. That's what I tried.
If that didn't work, so I will change. I will try to play the serve, you know, more combined. But was working well because I didn't had many breakpoints against. The serve that I lost was in the third, 2 1, I think, I lost that serve because I played bad from the baseline, not because of the serve.
Fed thinks he can win playing his way (OR NO WAY) - stylishly! With 99% of players he gets away with that.
Rafa will do what it takes to win.... the playing ugly thing.
Fed's ground strokes look 20% loopier - and slower - when playing Nadal as if he feels that this is how he can win against the bull? (not)
The worst part about having Rafa win this slam will be having to put up with that stupid grin.
Also what pisses me off about tennis is how easily amused the crowds are...players could probably say they're declaring nuclear war on our country and the crowd would still end up in hysterics.
The worst part about having Rafa win this slam will be having to put up with that stupid grin.
Also what pisses me off about tennis is how easily amused the crowds are...players could probably say they're declaring nuclear war on our country and the crowd would still end up in hysterics.
I have never been a fan of Nadal, but I can't say anything against him either. If he wins which he will, he deserves it because he has done the hard work to get there. He actually began as a right hander, and his uncle converted him at an early age, as their are less left handers, so they are harder to beat. I think he still eats and writes with his right hand. You can see he will go past 17 slams in the next year, and probably get to 25 or even 30 by the time he pulls the pin. He will be the all time greatest by a country mile. Like Bradman with test cricket with the bat. Especially being untouchable in the French Open. Djokovic, Murray, Tsonga and Berdych need to step up and trouble him. Federer won't.
Interesting enough I thought all the favourites could go all the way, but in the womens games they all fell over.
The worst part about having Rafa win this slam will be having to put up with that stupid grin.
Also what pisses me off about tennis is how easily amused the crowds are...players could probably say they're declaring nuclear war on our country and the crowd would still end up in hysterics.
I have never been a fan of Nadal, but I can't say anything against him either. If he wins which he will, he deserves it because he has done the hard work to get there. He actually began as a right hander, and his uncle converted him at an early age, as their are less left handers, so they are harder to beat. I think he still eats and writes with his right hand. You can see he will go past 17 slams in the next year, and probably get to 25 or even 30 by the time he pulls the pin. He will be the all time greatest by a country mile. Like Bradman with test cricket with the bat. Especially being untouchable in the French Open. Djokovic, Murray, Tsonga and Berdych need to step up and trouble him. Federer won't.
Interesting enough I thought all the favourites could go all the way, but in the womens games they all fell over.
And who said certitude is bunk! :(
I've said it often enough, Fed played "average Joes" until the later part of his career when Rafa, Novak and Murray hit their stride. I've never boarded the Fed Express, and I never will. Way too smug and arrogant for my liking. Technically brilliant (and better than Nadal), but he hasn't (until now) done anything beyond his comfort zone to deal with Rafa. Rafa has played the same tactics against him for years, and I think Fed just believed that his superior skill would eventually get the job done. And he has little ticker. Rapidly becoming a "lifestyle" tennis player.
He is still top 10, and still has the measure of pretty much everyone on the tour except Rafa and maybe Novak. He won't win another major, but he is still very competitive and pretty fit. I don't believe he should retire.
Rafa has been my favourite player for years, and he embodies everything I wish our Carlton players had.
Not worth a response that tripe PaulP.
Anyway, Stan taking it to Rafa (thus far).....
Not worth a response that tripe PaulP.
Anyway, Stan taking it to Rafa (thus far).....
But you just responded. :))
Stan playing exceptionally well. Hope he wins.
Just a passing thought and not necessarily my thoughts - does anyone here think Federer has been complacent over the years because there hasn't been another stand-out swiss player to create a bit of a national (healthy and friendly) rivalry? This is the first time in 13 years that he isn't the number one swiss player. Thoughts?
Wawrinka could have completely finished this in 3 sets, yet he has backed off the throttle and looks like Rafa will take the third serving softer than a girl with his back issues. Just finish him already !!!
Not worth a response that tripe PaulP.
Anyway, Stan taking it to Rafa (thus far).....
Oh really ?
I said Fed is technically brilliant and a great player.
Can you name any of his regular opponents prior to, say 2008-2009 who could be regarded as great ? Hewitt, Roddick, Safin, Ivanišević............. They all had their 15 minutes (or in some cases 5), but how great are they ? I understand that Fed can't help who is on the other side of the net.
Rafa with a busted back takes a set off Stan. We need this guy at CFC.
I've said it often enough, Fed played "average Joes" until the later part of his career when Rafa, Novak and Murray hit their stride. I've never boarded the Fed Express, and I never will. Way too smug and arrogant for my liking. Technically brilliant (and better than Nadal), but he hasn't (until now) done anything beyond his comfort zone to deal with Rafa. Rafa has played the same tactics against him for years, and I think Fed just believed that his superior skill would eventually get the job done. And he has little ticker. Rapidly becoming a "lifestyle" tennis player.
He is still top 10, and still has the measure of pretty much everyone on the tour except Rafa and maybe Novak. He won't win another major, but he is still very competitive and pretty fit. I don't believe he should retire.
Rafa has been my favourite player for years, and he embodies everything I wish our Carlton players had.
+1
Im with you there, and echo your sentiments.
As Stan might say Mants, don't count your chickens....
I've said it often enough, Fed played "average Joes" until the later part of his career when Rafa, Novak and Murray hit their stride. I've never boarded the Fed Express, and I never will. Way too smug and arrogant for my liking. Technically brilliant (and better than Nadal), but he hasn't (until now) done anything beyond his comfort zone to deal with Rafa. Rafa has played the same tactics against him for years, and I think Fed just believed that his superior skill would eventually get the job done. And he has little ticker. Rapidly becoming a "lifestyle" tennis player.
He is still top 10, and still has the measure of pretty much everyone on the tour except Rafa and maybe Novak. He won't win another major, but he is still very competitive and pretty fit. I don't believe he should retire.
Rafa has been my favourite player for years, and he embodies everything I wish our Carlton players had.
+1
Im with you there, and echo your sentiments.
Thanks Thry.
Stan the Man almost became Shirl the Girl - luckily he figured out his opponent couldn't serve, couldn't run and couldn't really bend his back.
Oh and one more thing. A comparison of tonight's performance by Rafa and Tomic's performance a couple of weeks back is all that is required to know that whilst Tomic has talent, and might skirt around the top 50 / top 20, he will NEVER amount to anything resembling greatness. Pea heart.
As Stan might say Mants, don't count your chickens....
He has the tools to be the best. Don't take anything away from him in this game. In fact when Nadal was smashing his serves and his ground strokes, Stan had his measure. It all turned sour when the game style changed. Staminal has what it takes in my opinion. He had little trouble against Djokovic, and wasn't worried against Nadal for a set and a half. He is the best Swiss player, and Federer is welcome to be his apprentice. I really like this guy. Like his anger. Like his style. Love his power. Love his running ability for a big unit and yes he does have a six pack. He just needs more time to take a few more majors even though he isn't a young kid. Bad luck Nadal. You are the best, but you better stay on your toes. Get well soon. I don't hate you, I just like others better. ;)
Stan is the man.
Credit where it's due. Stan played a terrific tournament, and quite possibly has room for further improvement.
I hope Tomic was watching how Raf dealt with pain >:D
Couple of class acts on centre court last night. Stan punching himself in the side of the head was, mmm, interesting viewing!
Okay, tennis gone, test and one-day cricket gone... the real stuff grows nearer :)
Felt sorry for Rafa having to play through that pain, but at the same time I was glad we didn't have to put up with the prick smiling like a f-wit and biting the trophy like he usually does.
STAN THE MAN.
Pain isn't a black and white things. We have no idea what each player was going through.
Anyone who had seen the footage of Rafa's hand would not be booing him like they did in the final.
Maybe they were Tomic supporters trying to put some shade on their heros piss-weak efforts. But there is no shade only contrast, and the contrast is blinding!