Carlton Supporters Club

No Simpson after half time, no Kruezer for the final 20 mins, no Newman for the  final 15 mins. Consider your pre match expectations. Hawthorn at Launceston.  They were always going to come at us Keep in perspective.

No Simpson after half time, no Kruezer for the final 20 mins, no Newman for the  final 15 mins. Consider your pre match expectations. Hawthorn at Launceston.  They were always going to come at us Keep in perspective.

Let's face it - even if Harry kicks it and we win, those calling for Bolton's head will still say the Hawks should never have been allowed to get so close, he can't coach, he's stubborn blah blah blah

Bolton lost me in thaty 3rd quarter.

Were they told to slow it down and switch to a zone (which always brings them undone)....

And no one even trying to stop their most prolific ball getter - AGAIN.

It's groundhog day.

Well he’s yet to prove that he can be a successful game day coach. His record so far is frankly abysmal.

No excuse for the loss, other than a shocker of a coach.

Other than Simmo, we had all the others available in the third quarter.

The last quarter put a lie to the fact that without the three players who weren't available we couldn't win.

As I said in the in game thread. I watched the last quarter of Port and North and North killed Port.

If they play like that against us, we won't win.

Well he’s yet to prove that he can be a successful game day coach. His record so far is frankly abysmal.

Well he’s yet to prove that he can be a successful game day coach. His record so far is frankly abysmal.

...and here we start creating an alternate version of history.

Someone in the in-game said at the start of the 3rd that we are now trying to put the clamps on Omeara.

Everytime the opposition get a run on, a team moves to slow the game down and break momentum. Every side.

We couldn't get our hands on the ball as easily as we did in the first half.

No excuse for the loss, other than a shocker of a coach.

Other than Simmo, we had all the others available in the third quarter.

The last quarter put a lie to the fact that without the three players who weren't available we couldn't win.

As I said in the in game thread. I watched the last quarter of Port and North and North killed Port.

If they play like that against us, we won't win.

Feckin' unacceptable. Same old, same old.

This game clearly highlighted to me the lack of quality leadership we have - and I'm not talking about leading by example (e.g. Cripps). Hawthorn clearly have a core group who marshal different aspects of the game depending on the circumstance. That, and a better coach.

We really have to do better with kickouts.  The dinky kick to the pocket is so old school but it could also be symptomatic that we don't have the kicking skills to do better.  It simply telegraphs the fact to our opponent that we're timid and lack confidence.  In contrast, in that 3rd quarter, they hit someone on the chest on the 50 metre line and then took it coast to coast.

No Kreuzer, no Carlton. Silvagni good in the first half, rancid in the second.

Also, if I was to criticise one of the field umpires I would be labelled sexist, misogynistic, and chauvinistic. So I won't.

Yes, his record is lousy, but there's reasons for that IMO, as I've suggested previously.

Because he's not that good. That sounds like the reason.

No, that's not it.

It's 4 wins from 38. We're now 1-5. 4th year into a rebuild I expect wins and a rise up the ladder. Couldn't give a crap about comparisons to last year, that's just spin. We've lost 3 games we should've won, Sydney, GC and Hawthorn.

Bolton lost me in thaty 3rd quarter.

Were they told to slow it down and switch to a zone (which always brings them undone)....

And no one even trying to stop their most prolific ball getter - AGAIN.

It's groundhog day.

You can slice it anyway you want Paul.

Whatever BB's message was at half time - it failed dismally.

The players - everyone of them - was comatose at the start of Q3.

They didn't run, they missed tackles, they took the wrong option and they moved the ball incredibly slowly.

Hooray.

That's crazy. You have Docherty, Walls, Bolton, Teague, Barker, various analysts, statisticians etc., all watching the game, and you don't think that between that cast of thousands, one of them might see what the experts on here can see ? Do you think, maybe, just maybe, that whatever changes are made or not made, there may be some reasoning behind it ? That they may know a little more about the state of play than you or me ?

But no, by all means, sack the coach.

so his message was "just relax boys, we got this, got out and play like you don't care, and play like we've already won."

I'd find it hard to believe this was a directive, BUT ... how many of us had that sense of dread at half time?

The buck stops with Bolton. And I know from personal knowledge, that he's as stubborn as they come, and believes that he has a game plan which will ultimately win every game.

Problem is, he and his plan, are to frigging complicated.

He's a school teacher by trade, but thinks he's talking to Doctors of Philosophy, who probably wouldn't understand him either.

He's talking to young blokes. Keep it simple.

Make changes when necessary. Don't let Omeara get a record number of possy's before you finally tag him.

Make sure they come out firing for the third quarter.

I posted here a few weeks ago, that for all the above reasons, he's a hack as a coach.

But for me, the ULTIMATE reason was that first round against Richmond this year.

86,000 people. The boys are supposedly fitter than ever, and frankly, that last quarter today with three men down proved that Russel has got them very fit.

They had been chomping at the bit to play.

And you, Brendan Bolton, our head coach, couldn't get them wound up enough to come out and make a at least a contest of the first quarter against Richmond.

So what did we get, as a result of your failure to fire them up, 5 goals to ZERO.

Five goals to three would have been acceptable, and who knows, maybe a win would have resulted.

I frankly don't know who we can get, but anyone with half a football brain has got to be better than him.

I know the stats. I know you think we have a fab list. I would qualify that by saying we have a fab DEVELOPING list. And yes, there is a difference, and yes the difference matters.

Quit the f excuses. It's 4 wins from 38, and 1-5 in a year we should be going up the ladder. A fab list makes top 4, a fab developing list finishing top 10 with 9-10 and being at least half way to finals competitive much of year. You know it, I know it. You need to admit that rather than spin your way around it.

They're not excuses and it's not spin.

One that got away after a great start, its hard to win a game when the opposing teams best mid had 40 plus with a lot of contested wins. It wasnt rocket science that Omeara
was the man to stop and after Mitchell did the same to us last season you have to question the tactics. Ed Curnow went onto Omeara about half way through the last quarter
but the horse had bolted.
Kruezer tired and McEvoy seemed to get on top in that 3rd quarter and the Hawks won the ball out of the middle...their good experienced players also lifted, Bruest, Poppy, Shiels, Wingard, Smith all started getting the ball and we just couldnt get the ball it was that simple.

Also those two big marks the Hawks took in the backline were huge, we didnt contest properly, just had to get the ball to ground in those last 5 mins but our talls didnt compete.

Not the end of the world though and we need to hit back and beat North, we should start warm favorites and I'd be including Williamson and Stocker for Newman and Simpson who look injured.

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Setterfield will come in.

............
Opposition sides now know to apply bona fide pressure and to change styles... we'll fold under the pressure and our coaching box will fail to adapt and adjust to the change in style.

When you lose by a kick in an arm wrestle, you can wear it. But when you own the game and, again, surrender when real pressure is applied there is something amiss. As MM mentioned in his article, this aint about average age and he's right.

For those who argue we could be 3 and 3, I would suggest we could also be winless had the Dishlickers not made so many mistakes and persisted with silly match-up. 1-5 is where we sit and we obviously deserve that. Reality.

Whatever was said to our blokes at half time effectively sucked the confidence and boldness out of them.

This loss (another honourable/brave loss) was worse than the GC loss. We allowed a turnaround of just under 7 goals.

Opposition sides now know to apply bona fide pressure and to change styles... we'll fold under the pressure and our coaching box will fail to adapt and adjust to the change in style.

Have a look at the game again and have a look at how many goals we gifted them from mistakes and turnovers in front of their goal (inside 25m). The Jones one was the worst, SPS's one was very bad also. Kicking across the face of goal killed us.

Have a look at the game again and have a look at how many goals we gifted them from mistakes and turnovers in front of their goal (inside 25m). The Jones one was the worst, SPS's one was very bad also. Kicking across the face of goal killed us.

PaulP. Walls isn’t working an active role for game day coaching.

letting the opposing teams
best mid run around unmanned for most of the day and rack up 40 plus then you cant expect to win.....we are every slow learners.

Which means that an entire coaches box of people, plus Docherty, plus Walls, are missing the same things week after week after week, even though the experts on here can all see it.

So, so funny.

When Ed Curnow and Plowman get a lot of the ball we have problems.

Their disposal is pretty limited. Plowman had a dead set shocker.

Too much stop, poop yourself, turnover.

I was hoping Williamson would come in for Plowman but Simmo and Newman got injured of course.

Cripps had his worst game in a long while. Kreuzer started well but faded out in the second half.

I was watching on the telly, and Walls was sitting on the bench. He doesn't need to be an active coach - if he sees something, I'm sure he would let Bolts know.

Walls is a mentor, not a game day assistant coach. And if you watch closely when Doc is talking with BB on the boundary, he's being ignored (no acknowledgment)... a small thing, but maybe indicative. Had the Dishlickers not made so many errors last week we could easily be zip 6.

When you lead by 30pts at half time, you should never be in the situation where the last 2 seconds of the game is so critical.

Gotta take your hat off to Clarkson. Slowed us down in the second then took over in the 3rd, with a side that's not nearly as good as ours on paper... but experienced coaching / man management showed us how it's done.

Another 'brave' loss. This one should hurt more than the GCSs game.

How we respond to this will be telling.

Read my words. Walls Isn’t  an advisor. He is an observer to report back to the board where he thinks we fall short in games. Why do you think he is so close to the coaching group, yet says nothing to influence the game day strategy. He is the Mole.

Walls is a mentor, not a game day assistant coach. And if you watch closely when Doc is talking with BB on the boundary, he's being ignored (no acknowledgment)... a small thing, but maybe indicative. Had the Dishlickers not made so many errors last week we could easily be zip 6.

When you lead by 30pts at half time, you should never be in the situation where the last 2 seconds of the game is so critical.

Gotta take your hat off to Clarkson. Slowed us down in the second then took over in the 3rd, with a side that's not nearly as good as ours on paper... but experienced coaching / man management showed us how it's done.

Another 'brave' loss. This one should hurt more than the GCSs game.

How we respond to this will be telling.

Read my words. Walls Isn’t  an advisor. He is an observer to report back to the board where he thinks we fall short in games. Why do you think he is so close to the coaching group, yet says nothing to influence the game day strategy. He is the Mole.

The coach is not the problem. This game was won and lost by players who are still leaning and gelling together. Rookie (and not so rookie) mistakes got us in the end.

Not an ordinary Hawks' outfit like that one....

Correct. Tag O'Meara and they've got nothing.

The board doesn't need Wall's to tell them where we went wrong, they only need to look at this board.

Come off it - were you watching him for the whole 4 quarters ? How do you know who he does and doesn't talk to ? He has stated publicly that he is a sounding board for the coaches - yes, he could be lying, but he could also be telling the truth.

Rubbish. Don't hand over 4-5 goals inside 25m from mistakes and they dont win, simple. In the first half, he had 25 I think and we were still 5 goals up. He is not the reason they won, we handed the ball to them (virtually) in front of their goal. Unforgivable.

You're grasping at straws PP old son. Read MMs article again. We were out-coached. There were a few players who stank the place up in the second half as there were Dawk's players who stank the place up in the first qtr. They adjusted and adapted. We fell away. Fortunately our first qtr was so good that we had a buffer that took a while to dismantle. Looked to me like we went into 'protect the lead' mode in the 2nd half... now why would we do that?

We know that you believe BB should be given as much time as he wants, regardless, but there are those in positions of influence within our club who expect more and sooner than another few years. You can be sure that BB is coaching for his job this year... and so it should be.

Part of this feels like a copy and paste from one of your other posts. Your bias is obvious. Even when we win, it's because the other coach stuffed it. Our list is good on paper and still developing, not experienced enough or match hardened.

There are plenty of teams that have come back from the dead after half time.

Rubbish. Don't hand over 4-5 goals inside 25m from mistakes and they dont win, simple. In the first half, he had 25 I think and we were still 5 goals up. He is not the reason they won, we handed the ball to them (virtually) in front of their goal. Unforgivable.

No GTC - sacking the coach will save us, just like it has in the past. Clearly it's Bolton's game plan that instructs players to turn it over right in front of goal.

Rubbish. Don't hand over 4-5 goals inside 25m from mistakes and they dont win, simple. In the first half, he had 25 I think and we were still 5 goals up. He is not the reason they won, we handed the ball to them (virtually) in front of their goal. Unforgivable.

I believe the process should be allowed to play out, which IMO means no decision on the coach until the end of the 2020 season.

Every flag coach since 2000, except Matthews and Malthouse, have been home grown, and have been allowed the time and resources to develop. We need to grow our own, not look for the next messiah. If the board sack Bolton before the end of 2020, then they've learned nothing.

So we win 4 games this year and you automatically re-appoint for 2020?

No GTC - sacking the coach will save us, just like it has in the past. Clearly it's Bolton's game plan that instructs players to turn it over right in front of goal.

Completely outcoached. We had far more talent out there.

Agree Pauly, its not coaching, its decision making and execution on field. Forget the first half, we could no wrong. But you can pick every moment in the second half which gifted them easy goals. Structurally, it was difficult to cover Simmo, Newmy and Tractor (especially) but the mistakes were critical. Breust, The Chad, Poppy and Gunston were unsighted in the first half, I think they said they had one behind between them. We let them all off the leash through undisciplined acts by players, they all had an impact. Breust and Chad finished with 5, Shiels had 2 of his 3 in the second half if Im not mistaken (he was on the end of some gifts also).
Its obvious we aren't quite there yet. We get 5 goals up and I am still nervous that we will lose. We get 5 goals down and I know we have no hope in hell of chasing it down. As I said in the in game thread, if LOB took more time with that snap late in the 2nd and we go 6 goals up, I reckon it would have been a different story.

Paul, you have to be fair on Omeara, he was the only class mid they had and we did the same with Mitchell last season who got the three brownlow votes.
He should have been manned up probably by Ed Curnow who wasnt really influencing the game in any way, I think it was 26 possies to half time and he had a 3rd of their clearances.

Clarkson deemed it important to tag Cripps with Howe and also rotated Worpel on him.....Adam Simpson tagged Sidebottom with Hutchings to help win a Grand Final.
Are we going to let Cunnington and Higgins run around on their own next game?

Sure we made those easy mistakes but letting the Hawks best player get free ball all day defies logic...

We have more, young developing talent who pooped their pants (understandably) when the Hawks battle hardened, more experienced talent turned up the heat. Also, look at the Hawks elder statesmen and compare them to ours. But by all means, sack Bolton.

They're a bunch of has -beens.

The battle hardened types were the fringe players in their golden years....

We f..ed it up, again. And BB is at the centre of that.

We have more, young developing talent who pooped their pants (understandably) when the Hawks battle hardened, more experienced talent turned up the heat. Also, look at the Hawks elder statesmen and compare them to ours. But by all means, sack Bolton.

@ Shawny
Clarkson said afterwards he didn't really have to question his players, they questioned themselves and responded. Thats experienced, mature heads coming to the fore in the second half. I dont think he made many moves per se`, half a dozen senior players who were in the dressing rooms in the first half, ran out in the second and lifted to levels we all know Hawthorn normally play at. Yes we made them look second rate in the first half, but we were irresistible for the first 60mins. That was a glimpse into the future. When we do that for 4 qtrs, we will take some beating by anyone.

At 4 from 38, 1-5, any coach would deserve the sack. You know that too.

They're a bunch of has -beens.

The battle hardened types were the fringe players in their golden years....

We f..ed it up, again. And BB is at the centre of that.

Gutted.   If we were ever to beat this mob it was today,  but no,  we're they're bitch.....again.

Both the coach and a swag of players had awful second halves and both should be held accountable.

It's unfair to single out a solitary player,  but today was custom made for some on field leadership,  and Marc Murphy, you went MIA today.  And it isn't the first time.

Baggers, Dont think we need to change the coach as he is doing a lot right and has the players on his side but he needs help on tactics and match day coaching,
you have to ask what Walls role is ?
There are no standout alternative coaches either and I think the club have to go with Bolton in 2020 but put someone else in the box to help him with tactics.

FMD - 4 from 38 - who knew? Not as if we never get reminded every 5 minutes.

I agree but fear BB may not listen. He looks to have changed his approach this year, perhaps a little less 'hands on', a la Buckley, Dimma etc. But when push comes to shove does he resort to type... complex instructions/controlling/taking over from his assistants/not trusting assistant? He certainly says all the right things at this year's media conferences.

The side looked decidedly less confident in the 2nd half... was that too much instruction at half time (confusing the players) or was it the Dawks pressure? I don't know. Might have been both. Though the fight back in the last 5 or so minutes was a very good indicator of fiber within the group... just too little, too late. This group does not surrender and that is a strong positive.

I don't agree that BB's tenure should be a fait accompli for 2020. Could be he was the perfect choice to get the club to this level but the next step is beyond him. Could be. He might also deliver many wins from next Sunday onward making the 2020 decision academic.

I'm pretty sure the club won't be happy with 18 honourable losses and 4 wins (or so) for season 2019.

Then there is the playing personnel... did some fade badly in the third qtr because they got ahead of themselves? Were confused by half time messages? Didn't know how to respond to the Dawks increased pressure and altered style? Poor / slow to react on-field leadership?

Whoever BB's immediate boss is, should be demanding from BB smarter (and when needed, more creative) game day coaching and to simplify his message and that honourable losses not longer cut the mustard and his coaching tenure into 2020 is not a foregone conclusion.

Although it is hard to swallow such a terrible capitulation/surrender (which carries the potential for we humble supporters to overreact), I don't think today's lost opportunity was the end of the world, nuh, provided we learn from it/make meaningful change, inside the coaching box and on the field.

Another game of 2 halves. A second longer, a rouge umpiring decision less (just 1 or 2 of the arm chops against H for example), a Chad cheating moment disallowed, a putrid disposal less, and.... well. We'd all be singing the club's praises.

I can't work out what happened q3, and feel gutted too. Certainly lots to understand and address. Love that we came back in q4. Very encouraging for a young group.

In all, lots to like, but lots to improve too. Need to be able to keep doing what's working for longer.

PS.
2018 Blues 52 v Hawks 124
The improvement is in the numbers, and the wins will come providing we don't succumb to injuries.

Another game of 2 halves. A second longer, a rouge umpiring decision less (just 1 or 2 of the arm chops against H for example), a Chad cheating moment disallowed, a putrid disposal less, and.... well. We'd all be singing the club's praises.

I can't work out what happened q3, and feel gutted too. Certainly lots to understand and address. Love that we came back in q4. Very encouraging for a young group.

In all, lots to like, but lots to improve too. Need to be able to keep doing what's working for longer.

PS.
2018 Blues 52 v Hawks 124
The improvement is in the numbers, and the wins will come providing we don't succumb to injuries.

It was telling when Simmo didnt reappear. When we lost Newmy the nail was hammered in half way. Kruze, who was our most influential player in the first half, going off drove the nail into the coffin. We were like a fighter who had been knocked down several times, at that point, we could have pinched it with a lucky punch but didn't. Not making excuses with the injuries but it was pretty obvious that we cant afford 500 games of experience sitting on the bench for a qtr (almost)

nothing to do with it. We had capitulated....

Truth hurt?

It's 4 from 38. Doesn't matter what way you say it, that's what it is. Like me to make something up instead to make you feel better?

, a rouge umpiring decision less (just 1 or 2 of the arm chops against H for example),

in the second half which Simmo played none of.

Grrr, such a close one and real nailbiting in the last.  I hoped the umpires would make another mistake and let McKay's mark in the last second (after the siren) stand.

We lost alot of drive with Simpson ging down, and a few errors really killed us late.  Plowman's kick out of bounds and Jones' fumble and missed kick the two low lights. 

Still alot to like with some very inexperienced players.  Dow's burst and goal was great and the ball movement in the first half was excellent.  Hawthorn are a fine side, and while they are down a bit they have some outstanding leadership in Roughhead, Stratton, Bruest, Smith etc.  There is a reason why Roughhead went into the middle in the last minutes.  The loss of our small defenders allowed their small forwards back into the game.

Omera not being tagged seemed a problem, but any tag is robbing peter to pay paul.  Ed Curnow does give us a half forward option, albeit poor disposal, but its often a 50/50 proposition which is why tagging is not always done.  Thought Shiels was more damaging, along with Scully at big moments.   

Close but not quite.  Big improvements on last year and the wins will start to come.  We are a work in progress and lost by a kick to a prelim finalist from last year when we won 2 games.  Some of the hysteria on this board is a little unhinged.

FMD - 4 from 38 - who knew? Not as if we never get reminded every 5 minutes.

Hysteria ? Not here mate. Clear thinking as far as the eye can see.

Good post as always Viv.

Bolton is wasting our time playing Ed as a small forward....talking about robbing Peter..... ::) ::) :-[ :-[

Agreed

I can’t believe actual CFC fans on here, who should know better, fall for the media pushing this crap.  Of course he is a bad record - they gutted the side 3 years ago and played a team that wasn’t supposed to win.  That was the plan... I guarantee the board doesn’t hold the first 2 years against him.
...........

If you've got other suggestions, drop him a line. If only he'd consult CSC, he'd actually learn how to coach.

Bolton is wasting our time playing Ed as a small forward....talking about robbing Peter..... ::) ::) :-[ :-[

It's a funny old thread this.

I think we all have our own perceptions on what happened out there today and are pretty much sticking by them.
Maybe a day or two's reflection will change that,

What I saw


We were as good in the first half as we were last week.
After half time the Hawks raised there level of intensity and pressure and basically out-muscled us.
We suffered some significant injuries that really hurt our structure especially in defence…. which looked as unsure as it has at any time this season.
'Capitulation' has been used a couple of times....I didn't see that,
We surrendered a lead...but I don't think we ever capitulated.
In fact having weathered the onslaught and surrendered the lead we fought back to even up the contest and in fact it was the Hawks who were looking a bit fragile at the finish....I don't like to use the "what might have been" but the reality is that had the siren gone a couple of seconds later Harry could have been lining up to win the game.

This thread would be completely different.

Great idea, because thus far, on match days saying he's clueless is all but impossible to argue against.

Bolton is wasting our time playing Ed as a small forward....talking about robbing Peter..... ::) ::) :-[ :-[

Ed runs hard and is a senior body.  His disposal is poor and when he is pushed out of the side we will be going places.  But he, along with Thomas, Murphy et al are the few senior experienced players we have.  They are not world beaters, and not a patch on the senior players Hawthorn had running around today, but it is what it is.  Ed at half forward is working OK.  He can find the pill and he can move quickly into the middle with the 6-6-6- rule in place.  

Omeara had a ton of the ball but imo was not that damaging and not the reason the game changed.

I hate him but Clarkson is a master coach and still has enough top end talent to move the chess pieces and change the style when it’s not working to get things to change. He showed his expertise today in the coach box and our blokes as we have done so many times in the past in these sorts of situations.... we hand our opposition  easy soft goals when panic sets in. Seen it countless countlesss times over the last decade and it happened again today.

Our midfield are not that used to leading a match and when they rarely do they hate becoming the hunted - we go into our shells, start to carrel the opposition instead of throwing our bodies in, tackles when they are attempted are weak and soft and rarely stick and the team coming is given every opportunity to mount a comeback.  We become totally reactive and then as the pressure is so high in trying to stop the bleeding the usual suspects makes stupid decisions and we cough up countless goals which is the part I am so so sick of.

As soon as I see us coughing up soft goals regardless what the scoreboard is,  I know it’s game over. 

We handed that game to them like we have done way too many times and I’m tired of looking at the positives.

And anyone that thinks next week will be easier is kidding themselves.  Yep we are a building team but wins like today are vital for belief and worth much more then the 4 points.

Gutted and tired of losing the same way.

It's a funny old thread this.

I think we all have our own perceptions on what happened out there today and are pretty much sticking by them.
Maybe a day or two's reflection will change that,

What I saw


We were as good in the first half as we were last week.
After half time the Hawks raised their level of intensity and pressure and basically out-muscled us.
We suffered some significant injuries that really hurt our structure especially in defence…. which looked as unsure as it has at any time this season.
'Capitulation' has been used a couple of times....I didn't see that,
We surrendered a lead...but I don't think we ever capitulated.
In fact having weathered the onslaught and surrendered the lead we fought back to even up the contest and in fact it was the Hawks who were looking a bit fragile at the finish....I don't like to use the "what might have been" but the reality is that had the siren gone a couple of seconds later Harry could have been lining up to win the game.

This thread would be completely different.

Liam Jones has had a good year but his F ups are awful,  and cost goals.   He had at least four today and they all hurt. The kick in F up was as bad as I've seen,  but fumbles and mishandling,  getting falconed and punching the ball back into play instead of clearing the contest....it wasn't his best game today.

Liam Jones has had a good year but his F ups are awful,  and cost goals.   He had at least four today and they all hurt. The kick in F up was as bad as I've seen,  but fumbles and mishandling,  getting falconed and punching the ball back into play instead of clearing the contest....it wasn't his best game today.

Liam Jones has had a good year but his F ups are awful,  and cost goals.   He had at least four today and they all hurt. The kick in F up was as bad as I've seen,  but fumbles and mishandling,  getting falconed and punching the ball back into play instead of clearing the contest....it wasn't his best game today.

Not sure why he picked Bruest  to try and get cute(baulk around) with near goals....play the percentages man , kick the fecking thing.....a hot cross bun nearly got launched at the TV when he attempted that move...

No, not his best, but he's been rock solid for us down back, so I for one will cut him some slack. And he took a few killer marks today as well.

The problem with Jones has always been that his howlers, really, really howl. But his good outweighs the bad at the moment, and he's a worthy member of our back 6 IMO.

Not sure why he picked Bruest  to try and get cute(baulk around) with near goals....play the percentages man , kick the fecking thing.....a hot cross bun nearly got launched at the TV when he attempted that move...

I’ve been angling for a new tv for weeks, almost got one today when jones did thst followed by LOB, my cuppa tea almost found its way through the plasma

No, not his best, but he's been rock solid for us down back, so I for one will cut him some slack. And he took a few killer marks today as well.

The problem with Jones has always been that his howlers, really, really howl. But his good outweighs the bad at the moment, and he's a worthy member of our back 6 IMO.

Nice post lods. But the Bolton haters would still not be happy. They would complain that a 1 point win isn't good enough, that the players made Bolton look better than he is, that we should never surrender such a big lead etc.

Sick to death of people knocking the coach without coming up with an alternative. I've just been through this whole thread and I didn't see one suggestion of who could do better.

Tried and tested coaches?

Clarkson - Ian Aitken incident, 'unsociable-football' (sniping) etc
Longmire - unwatchable possession football where the whistle goes off every 10 seconds does my head in
Ross Lyon - bridesmaid. Negative football.
Worsfold - needs success at a second club to prove himself in my mind, because he had an awesome side in the west.
Scott brothers - No.

No going to bother going through them all.

Not going to mention his name because people on this site hate him so I will throw out a cryptic clue. Hint its not Skippy.




You will think I need my head read but I would take Buckley, but we would never get him.

Maybe we need a someone who has been through a good system has seen what is required for success and is ready to take the next step. Thats what we have now.

Someone please name me another to roll the dice on (SO WE CAN START AGAIN !!!!!!!!) or put up and shut up.

Brett Ratten couldn't defend against a rampaging Suns because he had no plan B back then. That was is his coach killer game. He is about the only other  I could accept as a replacement.

It's a funny old thread this.

I think we all have our own perceptions on what happened out there today and are pretty much sticking by them.
Maybe a day or two's reflection will change that,

What I saw


We were as good in the first half as we were last week.
After half time the Hawks raised their level of intensity and pressure and basically out-muscled us.
We suffered some significant injuries that really hurt our structure especially in defence…. which looked as unsure as it has at any time this season.
'Capitulation' has been used a couple of times....I didn't see that,
We surrendered a lead...but I don't think we ever capitulated.
In fact having weathered the onslaught and surrendered the lead we fought back to even up the contest and in fact it was the Hawks who were looking a bit fragile at the finish....I don't like to use the "what might have been" but the reality is that had the siren gone a couple of seconds later Harry could have been lining up to win the game.

This thread would be completely different.

Our kick-ins need work as we’re far too predictable relative to opposition sides

Our spread from the contest needs work and in the 3rd quarter the Hawks rum further, faster

The two most defining issues today were Plowman’s poor disposal (including passing to players under enormous pressure) and Kreuzers absence from the ruck in the second half.


Ed Curnow, Plowman and Dow need to tidy up their disposal.

Frees were 19 to 10, no need to say who got the 10. Add that shocking bounce that should've been recalled that resulted in a direct goal. Maybe its time we stopped being Mr nice guy and asked a few questions about the ump's.

Rubbish, when the opportunity cost is leaving leading players on the other team running rampant because our only tagger is trying to snag a goal (and essentially has zero idea how to be a forward).

That's a dumb comment.

Wow, that's one out of left field! I've read all the posts and don't recall anyone saying any such thing. Most have differentiated and stated their case either fer or agin BB and/or his decisions or lack thereof, and likewise certain players. And I'm pretty sure no-one would have complained about a 1 point win... but we didn't win, and my uncle hasn't got boobies so he remains my uncle... if you get my drift, there's no escaping reality. You're not on the red again, are you?  ;) ;) ;D

Frees were 19 to 10, no need to say who got the 10. Add that shocking bounce that should've been recalled that resulted in a direct goal. Maybe its time we stopped being Mr nice guy and asked a few questions about the ump's.

Our kick-ins need work as we’re far too predictable relative to opposition sides

Our spread from the contest needs work and in the 3rd quarter the Hawks rum further, faster

The two most defining issues today were Plowman’s poor disposal (including passing to players under enormous pressure) and Kreuzers absence from the ruck in the second half.


Ed Curnow, Plowman and Dow need to tidy up their disposal.

Its not a dumb comment, and a little civility goes a long way, especially after a loss.

Tagging is a tradeoff.  Playing Curnow in the middle in a tagging role is robbing another younger more creative player of very valuable time in contests, and probably giving up 15-20 possessions over a game in exchange for cutting 10-15 from an opponent.  Cripps got sat on today by Howe and still managed 28 touches.  Curnow got 24 touches and kicked a goal at half forward.  Its a trade off and we lost by 5 points.

Dow needs a run in the 2s....he does sfa generally.

It's a funny old thread this.

I think we all have our own perceptions on what happened out there today and are pretty much sticking by them.
Maybe a day or two's reflection will change that,

What I saw


We were as good in the first half as we were last week.
After half time the Hawks raised their level of intensity and pressure and basically out-muscled us.
We suffered some significant injuries that really hurt our structure especially in defence…. which looked as unsure as it has at any time this season.
'Capitulation' has been used a couple of times....I didn't see that,
We surrendered a lead...but I don't think we ever capitulated.
In fact having weathered the onslaught and surrendered the lead we fought back to even up the contest and in fact it was the Hawks who were looking a bit fragile at the finish....I don't like to use the "what might have been" but the reality is that had the siren gone a couple of seconds later Harry could have been lining up to win the game.

This thread would be completely different.

Dow was excellent in the first half and kicked our only goal in the 3rd. One of his better games this year and he wasn’t on his own going missing for 30mins

2nd year player, give him a break.

Dow was excellent in the first half and kicked our only goal in the 3rd. One of his better games this year and he wasn’t on his own going missing for 30mins

2nd year player, give him a break.

Paul is pissing in the wind.

Reminds me of Mav defending Pagan....  :-[ :-[

Cripps was ineffectual today. FACT.

Why?  ::) ::) ::)

Cripps gets a heavy tag nearly every game he plays.

His + Plow's f... ups  plus LOB's total lack of awareness....

Cripps gets a heavy tag nearly every game he plays.

I think Shiel is a limited FA end of year.  He might not be the silkiest player going around but he killed us today.  Would have been handy in dark blue today.

Dude, all our coaches since 2000, whether they are rookies or premiership winners, have entered the the Carlton Coach Killer Vortex™ and come out looking sh1t. Pagan 2 flags, MM 3 flags..........As I've said elsewhere, it takes real skill, effort and dedication to do that time and time again.

Mav was right.

;D ;D ;D

Really really pissed off with those howlers that gifted them goals SPS, Jones, Plow or March can’t remember which, just basic basic stuff- do NOT screw around in front of goals - get it out of there, push it over the line, do not flick it in front of goal ever!

All guilty as charged. Add LOB to the list.

Why did they get a 50m penalty to put them right in front of goal yet SPS got an elbow to the head which apparently was reportable, but no 50m?

Why is H allowed to get his arms chopped continuously without ever getting a free?

Why was that guy allowed to walk into a better angle when he marked on the boundary line?

Why do they continuously get away with holding Cripps? Or land in our backs with no frees?

Careful Micky, if you play whistleblower, the club will get fined....free kick Hawthorn.

Among the litany of questionable decisions the one that got me was SPS getting nailed with the forearm -  it was a clear, and absolutely no discussion required report and 50 metre penalty..... crickets.  That umpire should have a case to answer for, if they don't know the %$^^&ing rules they should expect to be dropped and bloody well made to learn them.

At the very least I'd expect a please explain from the club to the AFL to clarify the situation on this one.

You're right Micky, but that is not the reason for the capitulation?

Thats true but I'd argue we need to do similar to the opposing teams best player/s but dont and its cost us games...why do premiership winning coaches employ the
tactic and we dont? I know there is trade off between development vs wins but in a 4th year of a rebuild I'd be leaning towards winning the game.
It drives me nuts each week how we just hand out BOG's to players who never had an opponent...

Careful Micky, if you play whistleblower, the club will get fined....free kick Hawthorn.

Among the litany of questionable decisions the one that got me was SPS getting nailed with the forearm -  it was a clear, and absolutely no discussion required report and 50 metre penalty..... crickets.  That umpire should have a case to answer for, if they don't know the %$^^&ing rules they should expect to be dropped and bloody well made to learn them.

At the very least I'd expect a please explain from the club to the AFL to clarify the situation on this one.

BT highlighted how that hawk moved closer and to a better angle while Eleni was sorting our player out - what are the other umps watching and Murphy was watching him - Why didn’t he say something? I’m so ducking sick of watching teams like these pricks with their sniper coach, cheating and stepping forward or moving to better angles or all those little things, and we just sit there and watch it happen. So bloody frustarting! Where are our whinging players to question things?!

I used that word and should clarify, the third qtr was a capitulation. But I did say in the same post that the way we fought it out late in the last qtr which showed fiber and that's a strong positive.

I get that Elwood. I'm sure the coaches have their reasons. Don't think for a minute that they don't notice the bloke getting the most possies. They surely do. But most coaches, not just Bolts, are reluctant to run full time taggers. I've seen pressers with Buckley, Bolton, and others where they give their reasons, as I've discussed elsewhere.

BT highlighted how that hawk moved closer and to a better angle while Eleni was sorting our player out - what are the other umps watching and Murphy was watching him - Why didn’t he say something? I’m so ducking sick of watching teams like these pricks with their sniper coach, cheating and stepping forward or moving to better angles or all those little things, and we just sit there and watch it happen. So bloody frustarting! Where are our whinging players to question things?!

And yet you readily admit Cripps regularly gets tagged.

ffs Paul, take a few reality pills.

Dont confuse tagging with going head to head.

Bolton coached at the Hawks for 5 years - I'm sure he knows all their tricks backwards.

And yet you readily admit Cripps regularly gets tagged.

ffs Paul, take a few reality pills.

Judging by the result, clearly not.

Are you Bolts Paul, or his brother?

Judging by the result, clearly not.

Are you Bolts Paul, or his brother?

No, just someone who doesn't jump at shadows and go looking for soft, easy solutions to complex issues.

Sounds like code for making excuses Paul, that's ok.

Just stop shooting yourself in the foot when trying to salvage Bolton's game day tactics?

LOL. You wouldn't know Bolton's match day tactics if they bit you on the ar$e, slapped you in the face and then introduced themselves.

Dont confuse tagging with going head to head.

Howe tagged Cripps today , DeBeor gets all the opposition best mids hence he gets belted each game....even a star studded midfield like GWS run a strong tag.
Are we that good we dont need to do it?

Second time 'round I was able to see a few things I missed watching it live. I hate to pot a champ, but some of the poor disposals and half efforts from Murphy in the third and especially final qtr were deeply disappointing, and costly (from a leader/experienced player these mistakes have a terrible impact on the group).

Just watched the game again. Staggering how we went into our shells in the third... just went negative once the Dawks upped the ante, yet flipped back to positive attacking footy late in the last! Why?
...............

It pains me to say it, but most of the good things coming from the field are Cripps-driven, and youth-driven. That nothingness at the top is very telling in games like yesterday. Exceptions being Krooz and perhaps Daisy.

I'm not sure Kreuzer was injured? He just looked physically spent, hasn't had much of a preparation.

It's not the coaching, it's not the game plan, it's not the match day tactics, it's not the structures, it's not the tagging.

Can someone tell me how many touches O'Meara had at 1/2 time ?

What about Murphy?
Surely he provides leadership and guidance

From memory, it was early to mid 20s.  Taylor made a comment about it

Murph has spent pretty much his whole career in a losing culture, winning is not that familiar to him.

That's pretty much my thoughts as well. No mention of him in any of the injury reports I've seen post match.

I saw him trying to chase in the last quarter and it looked like his body was shutting down. Puts a big hole in the Kreuzer can ruck by himself theory.

Yes, but it's not just him, Krooz, Simmo, Daisy since he came over.

Yes, but it's not just him, Krooz, Simmo, Daisy since he came over.

Sure, doesn't help does it? Just not enough hardened winners at the moment. That's what was needed yesterday to get us over the line. Effort was mostly there, nous was lacking against Clarko the old fox and his men.

Sure, doesn't help does it? Just not enough hardened winners at the moment. That's what was needed yesterday to get us over the line. Effort was mostly there, nous was lacking against Clarko the old fox and his men.

I agree. He's getting to the point where he should spend more time on the pine in-match, or else give him a breather in the F50.

It has to be said, one quarter of vintage Krooz is better than a full game of Cas, Lobbe and Philips.

I agree he was beating McEvoy then Big Boy wore him down until he submitted.

We may as well play the 2 rucks now as it's proven we lose either way. Give Kreuzer a rest and prolong his career and get games into Phillips.

I agree he was beating McEvoy then Big Boy wore him down until he submitted.

We may as well play the 2 rucks now as it's proven we lose either way. Give Kreuzer a rest and prolong his career and get games into Phillips.

I don't mind this idea.

Casboult wasn't too bad yesterday, he'd be very unlucky to be dropped.

...........

McEvoy didn't wear him down, something was wrong with SpecialK after 1/2-time, he could hardly jump.

Something was clearly wrong, there was a suggestion he tweaked an ankle or strained something kicking that goal, but I didn't see anything. Apparently he was hobbling a bit after that! But to me he looked like he had a virus or some other problem, I worry he might be suffering from that heart issue.

Didn’t Kreuzer spend the last quarter on the bench?

I agree. He was ok. But I still prefer Krooz plus another ruck. I don't think Philips is as bad away from stoppages and bounces as some make out.

No, I'm using Paul's own words.

(and no, no confusion - you reckon Howe was going H2H today?)

It's not the coaching, it's not the game plan, it's not the match day tactics, it's not the structures, it's not the tagging.

When you're getting flogged by 10 goals every other week, then yes, by all means question the coach, structures etc. If not for a few skill errors, a few brain fades, a few stray kicks, we get the 4 points yesterday.

Can someone tell me how many touches O'Meara had at 1/2 time ?

I just think they can use Levi in the ruck more, perhaps leave SpecialK behind the footy as another defacto tall defender and let Jones run and intercept more, tell SpecialK not to enter the F50.

..............

Just covered on SEN, they agreed it was the right call not to tag o’meara - we were 6 goals up at half time. The coaching staff obviously made a call that they would stick with what got them playing so well in the first place.  You’d be foolish to think they ‘missed’ it or were blind to his influence but they decided to go another way. That’s why they are paid the big bucks and we aren’t.

That said, you live and die by the sword and I’ve got no doubt this decision will be reviewed in the wrap up.

For mine, Krooz is arguably (along with Cripps) the most effective player we have. Whatever it takes to maximise his effectiveness and longevity, Im fine with that. If that means Casboult, that's ok. If it means a 2nd ruck, I'm ok with that too.

I just don't feel Cas is much of a ruckman. It feels sometimes like we have already lost the tap out and clearance.

30

He needs to be coached to ignore the tap and use his strength and speed, he's the strongest player in our club but he doesn't use it in the ruck. I'd be asking him to hurt some opponents with tackles, giving away free kicks from aggressive tackles will be his measure of success. When the umpire throws the ball up Levi's first thought should be tackle after jumping. That eventually has an impact on opponents, it's the Mumford and McEvoy way!

if our coaching had a flaw it was after 1/2 time they ran two against Cripps and we didn't leverage that by having him take them away from the football.

We have become addicted to Cripps being at the coal face, yet if he stays out and drags those opponents with him we get extra numbers all over the ground!

He needs to be coached to ignore the tap and use his strength and speed, he's the strongest player in our club but he doesn't use it in the ruck. I'd be asking him to hurt some opponents with tackles, giving away free kicks from aggressive tackles will be his measure of success. When the umpire throws the ball up Levi's first thought should be tackle after jumping. That eventually has an impact on opponents, it's the Mumford and McEvoy way!

It's a fair point. Maybe they stuffed that one or maybe they were counting on winning the clearance and being able to take advantage of the Hawks less numbers on the outside ?

Dawks new Cripps was the go to man, they dumped their opponents and charged into the center square to create numbers at every center stoppage. We had numbers on the outside but couldn't get to them before the Dawks won the footy and spread.

A couple of our young blokes may have become too accustomed to Cripps giving them easy football.

K looked to have a bloodied and bandaged knee when he was on the bench and I saw him hobbling a bit too.

Just covered on SEN, they agreed it was the right call not to tag o’meara - we were 6 goals up at half time. The coaching staff obviously made a call that they would stick with what got them playing so well in the first place.  You’d be foolish to think they ‘missed’ it or were blind to his influence but they decided to go another way. That’s why they are paid the big bucks and we aren’t.

That said, you live and die by the sword and I’ve got no doubt this decision will be reviewed in the wrap up.

The coaching staff obviously made a call that they would stick with what got them playing so well in the first place. 

Well if those clowns said it was the right call, I'm even more convinced it wasn't...

But they didn't do that at all.

Q3 starts and our blokes stopped playing man on man and stopped using the ball quickly. It was like they were protecting the lead.

The short dumb ass kicks were the undoing of them and the start of the blunder bus...

I agree. He was ok. But I still prefer Krooz plus another ruck. I don't think Philips is as bad away from stoppages and bounces as some make out.

This sounds like a set up question, but anyway, I'll play along.

Last night he wasn't great. He does what he can, but when compared to the Hawks leaders and senior players, our equivalents just aren't there. You can't just erase flags, habitual winning etc., and say it's a level playing field.

Our other rucks do zero around the ground. Rules another straight out for mine. Been proven time and again we do better with one ruck. Kreuzer always struggles when he shares. Why go back there? Besides, we have McKay, Charlie, McGovern and Casboult, who is expendable these day although he's playing some of his better football surprisingly. Where does one propose we fit another tall, especially a ruckman?

It's no set up, just a straight forward question.
The Flags and Habitual winning you talk about are created by leaders.
Murphy has been a leader and one of our highest paid players for years.
The Hawks best 4 players of the last 15 years no longer play there, but their next tier are still way better than he is.

Now there is a line "He does what he can".
That isn't much at all

Flags and habitual winners are created by professional clubs that have their sh1t together, on field and off. Our leadership cupboard has been bare for ages, throughout the club. Why just focus on Murphy ?

You can make very good cases for playing 1 or 2 rucks, as other teams show week in week out.

I can throw Gibbs in too.

Judd set a standard that was easy to follow, but they couldn't, wouldn't or didn't.

Kruezer has always been first class in his attack on the ball and contest, so as the leader/leaders they didn't perform then and still don't now.

Wow. Really ? Thanks for that. That means only 12 after 1/2 time.

Translation ? His team mates woke up and thought maybe they should help out.

Credit where it's due though. He's a very neat player and played very well.

Our other rucks do zero around the ground. Rules another straight out for mine. Been proven time and again we do better with one ruck. Kreuzer always struggles when he shares. Why go back there? Besides, we have McKay, Charlie, McGovern and Casboult, who is expendable these day although he's playing some of his better football surprisingly. Where does one propose we fit another tall, especially a ruckman?

Kreuzer struggled yesterday by himself and that happens time and time again when he comes up against the best rucks.

He was on fire in the first half. Absolutely blitzing. What happened to him in the last? Was he injured? does anyone have an update?

Kreuzer struggled yesterday by himself and that happens time and time again when he comes up against the best rucks.

I can throw Gibbs in too.

Judd set a standard that was easy to follow, but they couldn't, wouldn't or didn't.

Kruezer has always been first class in his attack on the ball and contest, so as the leader/leaders they didn't perform then and still don't now.

How good is Marc Murphy? Wow!

We should petition the club for a bronze statue of him outside the club in lieu of his courageous and skillful contributions over the past decade or so. I'd also like a never ending video loop on a screen below the statue showing him at his best. You know, things like:

- Avoiding all contact when he is presented with any opposition player large or small in his vicinity
- Shanking his kicks and missing every target by either kicking it over their head or missing either side by at least 3-4 metres
- Scrubbing a shot for goal along the ground when the opportunity presents itself to a kick a goal to win the game
- Looping his kicks so they take an eternity to reach the intended target giving the opposition ample time to spoil
- And my personal favourite, why kick a drop punt for goal from 35 metres directly in front when you can do a right foot banana and kick it out on the full. Show boating like the champion he is! He never misses an opportunity to show the world what he's got in that endless bag of tricks of his.

Ahhhh, classic Marc! Skills galore and loves to showcase them to all and sundry every week.

Thanks Marc! You're a wonder!

Can't play two rucks unless they can both do something alot more than just tap.

Probably the last 10 or 15 minutes.

Kreuzer is listed as having 75% TOG.  That’s incredibly low for him.

Kreuzer is listed as having 75% TOG.  That’s incredibly low for him.

When I watch the replay I'll keep an eye out, but I suspect he started missing a bit of game time and most of the missing time came after 1/2 or 3/4 time.

Hamstring problem for Kreuzer apparently, don't know how bad or when he did it. I thought he was our most important player in the first half. If he misses games we will really struggle I think

yep.  I reckon it happened in the second, and he tried to carry it and it wasnt until we needed to lift that he was taken out of the game.

This theme has happened far too often with kreuzer.  Hes a gun, but he has become the reason we win or his breaking down has become the reason we lose because we dont adjust well enough after he breaks down.

yep.  I reckon it happened in the second, and he tried to carry it and it wasnt until we needed to lift that he was taken out of the game.

This theme has happened far too often with kreuzer.  Hes a gun, but he has become the reason we win or his breaking down has become the reason we lose because we dont adjust well enough after he breaks down.

A ruckman has to be a priority in this year's trade period. Both Kreuzer and Phillips are way too injury prone and unfortunately injury has plagued Kreuzer most of his career. Lobbe was only brought in as backup to those two. De Koning is a fair way off it and Casboult has always been a forward and backup ruckman and so far this year has done that job pretty well IMO.

Agree...we need a younger ruckman who can go the distance...Kreuzer is great and while he is on we need to take advantage but 5-6 goals ahead isnt enough, we needed to be 10 goals ahead to have a decent buffer knowing he cant run out the game injured or not. McEvoy wasnt right either but the impact he had in the 3rd quarter was massive IMO...

That was a significant aspect wasn't it, the first half game dominance was far greater than the scoreboard dominance!

In a year or two, with another 30 to 50 games into the kids, that game would have been over at 1/2 time.

It's a bit hypocritical of some fans, despite that dominance and frequently turning Dawks defenders inside out, they give BB no credit just a kicking for not winning.

That was probably the best we've played as a team for half a decade!

The thing is that had to be measured.  We didn't have the bench to play full throttle footy for 4 quarters given Simpson and kreuzer were down at half time (hence the lack of confidence in the team from that point onwards).

Why did they get a 50m penalty to put them right in front of goal yet SPS got an elbow to the head which apparently was reportable, but no 50m?

Why is H allowed to get his arms chopped continuously without ever getting a free?

Why was that guy allowed to walk into a better angle when he marked on the boundary line?

Why do they continuously get away with holding Cripps? Or land in our backs with no frees?

McKay, Cripps, Kreuzer, hardly small players, all repeatedly hit in the head and it's play on!

Secondly, when will the AFL do something about these "body spoils", too many good players are having their season ended by landing awkwardly after a small players cannon into the back of talls in marking contests, always without getting anywhere near the ball.

Roughead, first a trip, then a blatant push, neither penalised right in front of the umpire both times. Both resulted in goals!

So many Dawks players block in marking contests it's ridiculous, they fly through the contest behind their marking forward without making even a basic attempt to contest the mark or touch the ball.

Why wasn't it a 50M penalty for that striking report, isn't it supposed to be automatic? You hear the umpire say he's reported for elbowing SPS to the head but no 50M gets paid!

Frees were 19 to 10, no need to say who got the 10. Add that shocking bounce that should've been recalled that resulted in a direct goal. Maybe its time we stopped being Mr nice guy and asked a few questions about the ump's.

Will the Club ask for rule interpretations from the AFL?  ???
We won't hear what we want to hear but it will at least be on record and may impact future umpiring.

yep.  I reckon it happened in the second, and he tried to carry it and it wasnt until we needed to lift that he was taken out of the game.

This theme has happened far too often with kreuzer.  Hes a gun, but he has become the reason we win or his breaking down has become the reason we lose because we dont adjust well enough after he breaks down.

That's true.  Something else I've noticed.  Plenty are dirty at us for going short and turning it over in the third, but that was exactly how we generated the bulk of our scoring in the first half.

Bolton was spot on.  Our issues stem from failing to adjust to the change in game when required.  We got it right against the Bulldogs last week and failed against hawthorn.  The only reason we got back in was because Hawthorn got in front and went into preservation mode themselves which suited us in terms of playing on at all costs in the last ten minutes.

The thing is that had to be measured.  We didn't have the bench to play full throttle footy for 4 quarters given Simpson and kreuzer were down at half time (hence the lack of confidence in the team from that point onwards).

SPS has had a pretty stiff run from the umpires in the last couple of weeks. We seem to get pinged a bit for holding the ball but get very few holding the ball decisions our way when we lay good tackles.

True.  I'm really torn on this. He's probably my favourite player but we just can't rely on him. At what stage do you call it and weigh up whether being on the list is a hindrance or a help? Is there such a thing as too much loyalty?

We need to learn how to win games based upon multiple contributors (=team effort)  as opposed to relying on individual superhuman efforts.   The second "methodology" isn't sustainable.

That's the beauty of Walsh.  You'd only need to tell him once.  Very "old school" in that regard.

O’meara 26 possies at 53% at half time. Blues up by 36 points. But yep should have tagged him.

The thing that kills me with these types of games is the narrative that can be written around them.  There have been bigger comebacks in bigger games so, from Hawthorn's perpective, it would be asking for trouble to make more of it than is deserved. Clarkson pitched his post-match perfectly by downplayng it, just a little - after all, it was only Carlton. He didn't need to use these words and that's what eats away at me. It has been the sub-text now for nearly 20 years. "Only Carlton"  ::)

Flip the game on it's head and I know I'd be comparing it to the Rumble in the Jungle. One world weary protoganist with not only undeniable talent and skill, but also supremely confident with an innate sense of self-belief. Aaaaand in the other corner is ... Carlton. They "roped-a-doped" us, sat back and watched, midly bemused, as we landed only enough blows to shake them from their lethargy.  We can sting but we can't kill. This is the narrative that has to change.

Flip the game on it's head and I know I'd be comparing it to the Rumble in the Jungle. One world weary protoganist with not only undeniable talent and skill, but also supremely confident with an innate sense of self-belief. Aaaaand in the other corner is ... Carlton. They "roped-a-doped" us, sat back and watched, midly bemused, as we landed only enough blows to shake them from their lethargy.  We can sting but we can't kill. This is the narrative that has to change.

I think that comes with time.

On the Dawks future, if they fail to attract the big names they are in for a world of pain, there list is heading in the wrong direction! They are behaving like we behaved in the late 80s, early 90s, it'll only ever deliver very short term success.

Their best player (shiels) yesterday is only 28.

How good is Marc Murphy? Wow!

We should petition the club for a bronze statue of him outside the club in lieu of his courageous and skillful contributions over the past decade or so. I'd also like a never ending video loop on a screen below the statue showing him at his best. You know, things like:

- Avoiding all contact when he is presented with any opposition player large or small in his vicinity
- Shanking his kicks and missing every target by either kicking it over their head or missing either side by at least 3-4 metres
- Scrubbing a shot for goal along the ground when the opportunity presents itself to a kick a goal to win the game
- Looping his kicks so they take an eternity to reach the intended target giving the opposition ample time to spoil
- And my personal favourite, why kick a drop punt for goal from 35 metres directly in front when you can do a right foot banana and kick it out on the full. Show boating like the champion he is! He never misses an opportunity to show the world what he's got in that endless bag of tricks of his.

Ahhhh, classic Marc! Skills galore and loves to showcase them to all and sundry every week.

Thanks Marc! You're a wonder!

I got caned yesterday for suggesting that Shield had a good game.  Must have been watching a different game to some people.

We've not a small forward in the club that can match Shiels effectiveness.

Yet, Shiels is the sort of player that will get pushed out by the Dawks when they try to take on other big trade targets, so please Carlton keep your ear to the ground.

Nah they're ok.  Its alarmist to think otherwise.  They only have 9 players on their senior list over 30, of which at least 3 didn't play against us yesterday and the ones that did have a year or two left.

Their best player (shiels) yesterday is only 28. 

By contrast two of our thirty plus year olds broke down mid game yesterday and we went from chocolates to boiled lollies.

Are you still in Canberra? Work is taking me there in a few weeks... love to catch up for a cuppa.

I see us playing better football every week.  Our ball movement at times is proper top notch now, and is a pleasure to watch.  The important thing is that we are doing everything better for longer this season than last. 

Losing sucks.  Losing so often sucks more.  Losing from 6 goals up sucks balls.  The boys are learning their lessons the hard way.  Lesson for this week - taking the foot off the pedal with a 5 goal lead at half time is a bad idea.

I don't know if Bolts is a very good match day coach yet, but I think he'll also learn from this loss (as if he needs more experience at that).  Is his coaching any good?  Based on 10 of the last 12 quarters i've watched i reckon he's got the boys playing some really good footy.  There's still something missing though - is it the players or the coach who aren't quite there yet?  There were some rotten coach killer moments that have already been mentioned on here, but something also went astray with their game plan after half time.

I still give Bolts to the end of the year before getting out the pitch forks.  The list has been built, but it is still being developed.  We need more wins, no doubt about it, and still think we can get to 6 or 8 for the season.  That would make me happy, and unless the wheels fall off, we'll get them.

Including McEvoy the number is 10 - he's 30 in July.

problem is all the old guard (and throw in Breust 29 in November) - are their best players. Shiels their best? Not.

Burgoyne, Roughy, Poppy, Birchall, Frawley, Henderson, Smith, Stratton, McEvoy.

That's the guts of their best (yeah, yeah there's O'Meara, Hardwick, Mitchell, Shiels, Sicily)

BT highlighted how that hawk moved closer and to a better angle while Eleni was sorting our player out - what are the other umps watching and Murphy was watching him - Why didn’t he say something? I’m so ducking sick of watching teams like these pricks with their sniper coach, cheating and stepping forward or moving to better angles or all those little things, and we just sit there and watch it happen. So bloody frustarting! Where are our whinging players to question things?!

I've read around the traps that he was widely tipped to be the 2019 captain, but Stratton got the job. They must rate him highly. But then again, the Hawks don't fool around. Ask Lewis, Mitchell and Hodge.

Do the Hawks players vote on the captain?..Stratton is very popular I believe.

I've had this discussion with you before. Your ideas on leadership are based on what you can see, what is visible to you on field, i.e big blokes throwing their weight around.

While some are still feeling sore about the narrow loss, you may get something out of this fun fact.

13,12 & now 10. That’s the free kicks Carlton have received in the last 3 weeks. Opponents have had 20, 22 & 19, respectively.

We're on target for the reverse bulldogs effect to take hold ::)

We're pretty undisciplined eh ;D

Would love to catch up, but I'm only really available after about 2pm most days. When are you here?

Thanks for filling me in on that.
Clearly you have a very good education and high IQ.

I don’t think you represent my beliefs on leadership at all.

I just don’t think someone who doesn’t perform the “one percenters” or team acts is ever going to be a strong leader. Joel Selwood is not a big guy but easily one of the best leaders in the AFL.

I accept the game can be brutal, it’s a pity you can’t.
You often remark that it is unnecessary but the history of recently successful teams suggest otherwise.
That doesn’t mean thuggery, just brutally physical games.

Leaders that can’t handle that always get exposed.

The simple fact is ………… the future is very exciting for us but there will be some heartache along the way.

These young players will continue to improve individually & collectively and in the not too distant future it will all click and watch out, it will be sensational to watch.

Whilst these close losses are gut-wrenching right now, they are also character building of the highest order.

I've wanted the list to be totally gutted & rebuilt properly for many years now and the club has finally embarked on that path so it will take some time to really pay dividends but I can start to see how good we are going to be.

As for Bolton, he is the one to take us there, I am quite certain of that.

The simple fact is ………… the future is very exciting for us but there will be some heartache along the way.

These young players will continue to improve individually & collectively and in the not too distant future it will all click and watch out, it will be sensational to watch.

Whilst these close losses are gut-wrenching right now, they are also character building of the highest order.

I've wanted the list to be totally gutted & rebuilt properly for many years now and the club has finally embarked on that path so it will take some time to really pay dividends but I can start to see how good we are going to be.

As for Bolton, he is the one to take us there, I am quite certain of that.

Nice post Boss.

Nice post Boss.

Nice post Boss.

Was it you who always said that you had to build the spine first and the rest will follow? If so you were right and, btw, I appreciate and agree with your positive post.

Was it you who always said that you had to build the spine first and the rest will follow? If so you were right and, btw, I appreciate and agree with your positive post.

But top KPPs, you probably have to draft 10 to find 1 A grade type!

A few years ago we were crying out for a Key Forward...it was a constant gripe on here.....now, we're in the best position this club has been for quality KPPs (both forward & back) that I can remember for a long time.

Something has been done right.

Now Ruckmen.

Quality ruckmen are even rarer, most teams have at least one or two A Grade KPPs on the list, but there are less A-Grade rucks than there are teams!

We've one who is at the moment has to deal with an unreliable body.

Yes, I have always strongly advocated (and I think Brother Elwood may have as well) getting the best big guys you can to form the spine and then fill in the rest of the roles as they become available.

Good big players never get any shorter late in tight matches when fatigue starts to kick in, it is the big key position players who win you the big matches. I'm sure there will be someone wanting to argue to the toss on that but history has shown multiple times that the theory is correct even if there has been an alternative bob up for a one-off success.

Christian wouldn't know if his ar$e was on fire....

It seems like such an obvious expression, yet I've never heard it before. Made me laugh.

Sheltered life, PP? ;) ;D

Did Christian forget his own rules (the SPS incident)?

"Usually" is the key to the interpretation for Samo.
Translated this means, it applies to infrigments on players from 17 teams.
When it comes to the 18th team, however, I'll please my f%$& self how I come to a ruling. Same sh*t, different day????

Well, after the age of 18, I steered well clear of school yards and the associated humour.

"Usually" is the key to the interpretation for Samo.
Translated this means, it applies to infrigments on players from 17 teams.
When it comes to the 18th team, however, I'll please my f%$& self how I come to a ruling. Same sh*t, different day????

"You maggot" was how I was normally addressed in my time in khaki.

There were a fee other choice ones but they ain't PC.

But learned well the fine art of biting sarcasm I see, garnished with a tinge of elitism  ;)

You wouldn't have enjoyed life in the military then ...many a uniquely Aussie colloquialism to be enjoyed there, but oh so crass... even gauche. ;D ;D

I learned biting sarcasm and elitism long after I left school.

No, I wouldn't last long in the military. Patriarchy and macho crap on steroids.

"You maggot" was how I was normally addressed in my time in khaki.

There were a fee other choice ones but they ain't PC.

"Gusset sucking lombards" is the nicest thing my sergeant called Naval personnel.   Most others referenced the LQBTF community. He called the RAAF types "blue moths".

Did you ever get to lay out "bastard wire" DJ?

One I can share from my time in the Green Machine is, “I’m going to rip your arms off, stick them in your ears and ride you round like a farking motorbike!”

That's the downside, the upside is superior understanding of self-discipline, team-work, hard work and excellence. Pass mark in two of my 6 subjects to gain qualification in my 'trade' (comms/encryption/code breaking etc) was 98%, the other 4, 80%.

A mate was telling me that he was in similar studies and his superior kept telling him how well he was doing, one day he asked where he would end up if he kept doing well.
The answer was that he would be rewarded with a code breaking job in a bunker with no windows... he flunked his next test and transferred... ????

My best friend was a Navy Radio Operator in Vietnam.

He has some interesting stories about being on the smaller support craft which is almost absent from the official records. You can read all you like about Destroyers, Aircraft Carriers and Air Support, but if you were on a boat that can go up river it's almost absent from the record. Of course the Aussies were officially not to be involved in marine or seal type activities apparently, but what were they going to do sit in a river delta and watch the war go by?

Did you hate the biscuits?

Wow, that's exactly what I was, Spotted One. In the Navy we were known as 'Sparkers.' In that ABCTV series 'Patrol Boat' the Sparker was the cat who emerged from the little metal dungeon from time to time with a message for the Skipper, XO or Coxswain... the insignia we wore was doves wings with a lightning bolt through them.

Our 'small craft' did heaps in the Asian theatre-of-war 60's and early 70s... patrol boats, landing craft, mine hunters and mine sweepers, sometimes survey boats were also deployed. Our reputation was second-to-none. On exercise we routinely gave the Yanks a hiding, always beat them, as did the Kiwis and Poms.

What really annoyed me, hurt actually, was finding out just last year all the entitlements I had for serving in a war zone... conveniently kept from us unless we asked. Thousands of dollars in psychiatrists, psychologists, medications and so on to deal with PTSD and PAD... out-of-pocket. Lost about 25 years of my life being mired in the effects of these disorders including years curled up in a useless lump of flesh with severe agoraphobia. I know I probably irritate many talking about this and bringing it up at every opportunity ...it's in an effort to create awareness so others don't lose such huge chunks of their lives - presently in deep discussion with a certain high profile law firm to create more public awareness as to what happens to returned service folks, or rather, what doesn't happen.

I'm one of the lucky ones - I'm still here, drug free (grog free!!!) and managing issues v. well, sh*t, almost normal (have no fear, that'll never happen)... not the case for many mates, though - so it's incumbent upon those of us who come through to speak up.

Much respect Baggers, and thank you. Keep pushing your cause, I'm one of many who have no idea of what you guys went through, and I am 100% behind you guys getting the support, recognition and respect you deserve

Much respect Baggers, and thank you. Keep pushing your cause, I'm one of many who have no idea of what you guys went through, and I am 100% behind you guys getting the support, recognition and respect you deserve

Well spoken Baggers.

 While I hope you remain both drug and grog free don't slip to pie free.

Not a chance, BB. Gee I laughed when I read that.