We grab defeat from the Jaws of Victory. So be it. We deserved to win.
1 minute to hold our crap together - 1 screwing minute!!!
Bloody heart breakers
We are so close. Two or three acts with thought and competence and we win. Docherty and Wood will wear the stigma, but they were not alone.
What a brave effort.
I really thought Malthouse had a good night. He totally outcoached Lyon strategically.
Fk me that is heartbreaking.
Some costly errors in the last quarter from Thomas, Casboult, Docherty and finally Cameron Wood. I reckon if Juddy doesn't get that injury we win the game.
I know he's old now and it's almost over but Andrew Carrazzo how he got that ball going forward for us in those dying seconds, he was huge in pretty much every stoppage that counted in those last few minutes.
I don't think we deserved to win. We didn't earn it. They played with 2 men down from half time, was a very fair effort by them. But, I think we were a much classier outfit tonight then we have seen. Disappointed with the result, but not crushed as I have been before.
Chris Judd- 3 votes
Really Judd, Gibbs and Murphy kept us in it, the younger players burnt the old blokes tonight. Only Graham was value.
McLean should never be sub, feck me how our MC keep making this amateur blunder.
"Highway robbery", as the commentators said.
I wanna know 3 things:
1. Who started the thread on Casboult's hands being the best in the business?
2. How could Tuohy possibly look Judd in the eye ever again. I can forgive Woods' error but not Tuohy's 50m penalty.
3. Why put Bell on Fyfe in the last? Masterstroke, Mick. Masterstroke.
fremantle will be just that - mantle free this year
Really Judd, Gibbs and Murphy kept us in it, the younger players burnt the old blokes tonight. Only Graham was value.
My man Nicky Graham a few classy touches throughout the night the kid can play and puts his head over it. Wish he had have nailed that snap in the last.
Groundhog Day....oh and Judd still carries our side.
Mitch Robinson in this side tonight would have made it interesting
"Highway robbery", as the commentators said.
I wanna know 3 things:
1. Who started the thread on Casboult's hands being the best in the business?
2. How could Tuohy possibly look Judd in the eye ever again. I can forgive Woods' error but not Tuohy's 50m penalty.
3. Why put Bell on Fyfe in the last? Masterstroke, Mick. Masterstroke.
Can't answer 1 and 2 but as for 3' that was a desperate move as Fyfe was easily breaking the tackles of any other opponent we tried. MM obviously thought Big Tommy was worth trying to stop him. Gee he's a strong boy is Fyfe as well as being highly skilled. Would just love to get someone like him.
When Yarran saved what was essentially a certain goal in the dying moments, I thought we were going to scrape home.
We didn't take some of our chances tonight, we dropped too many marks and we missed some goals that were better than 50% gettable. Only needed to convert one more of them and it was a draw so it really hammers home how important each and every play can be in a match, sometimes it is a game of inches.
And those umpires can go suck a lemon too, those 50m penalties (both ways) were a blight on the game.
Thomas had 29 disposals which was pleasant change, Casboult was a non-event and Bell didn't add to his half-time disposal count.
We grab defeat from the Jaws of Victory. So be it. We deserved to win.
No
This game is representative of our club since the judd era at carlton
Judd aside, our list is simply not good enough
When the heat was on we choked......
We are where we are because of skill errors.
Also...WHY THE FRIGG ARE THE UMPIRES SO AGAINST US.
ALWAYS THE 50/50 BALL GOAS AGAINST US, AN UTTER LOAD OF CRAP.
I even had my Richmond mate, who absolutely hates the Blues asking why are the umps so bias towards Freo. UTTER BULLDUST.
IF THE UMPS BLEW THEIR WHISTLE AND PAID LEGIT FREES.... >:(
How many more times are we going to be robbed?
"Highway robbery", as the commentators said.
1. Who started the thread on Casboult's hands being the best in the business?
The damn poster who jinxed him....lol. Wasn't just posters saying it though to be fair.
Had one of those nights where he couldn't catch malaria in Africa during an outbreak. Anyway, can't complain about his year.
Interesting year. Bugger all wins but given us more hope than any time last year in regards to individuals the way a few have come on.
We are where we are because of skill errors.
Also...WHY THE FRIGG ARE THE UMPIRES SO AGAINST US.
ALWAYS THE 50/50 BALL GOAS AGAINST US, AN UTTER LOAD OF CRAP.
I even had my Richmond mate, who absolutely hates the Blues asking why are the umps so bias towards Freo. UTTER BULLDUST.
IF THE UMPS BLEW THEIR WHISTLE AND PAID LEGIT FREES....
How many more times are we going to be robbed?
Did something tonight that we haven't done for year. Sat a tagger on his ar$e more often than not and protected our man. We are maturing. Juddy might even be enjoying his footy again too!!
I don't think we deserved to win. We didn't earn it. They played with 2 men down from half time, was a very fair effort by them. But, I think we were a much classier outfit tonight then we have seen. Disappointed with the result, but not crushed as I have been before.
Chris Judd- 3 votes
Sorry mate, but I can't agree with you. We really did deserve to win it. They played 2 men down, but neither of them had got a kick while they were on. In half a game Pavlich got 4 possessions. It was in our interest to keep him on, good player though he is.
What changed the game was when Judd got injured. He came back on, but he was severely restricted and had no impact from that point. He was BOG by far until then.
I hope he can get up for next week, but I do have my doubts.
Judd also showed just how important he still is to us. We got slaughtered in the ruck, yet we had more clearances and better clearances.
Unfortunately tonight also showed that we need a couple of players and a tad more composure. Even guys like Thomas, who is normally very sure, stuffed things up terribly when he needed him to hold things together. Nor was he alone. Docherty's kick on the full and Wood's kick down the middle of the ground were very ordinary. The 50 m given away by Tuohy was unnecessary.
Casboult: fair dinkum he had a shocker. Mind you, he should have been paid 2 really important marks in the action of the last quarter, either one being paid would have probably won us the game. But he had hands on concrete tonight: the ball bounced off every time.
Phrases like we deserve to win are a nonsense
The fact is we did not win....
Keep pick 6 in draft. lol
I thought Wood was pretty good tonight considering who he was up against and its a shame that his errant rushed kick ended up giving them the winning goal. He shouldn't be held responsible for the loss, there was a myriad of other reasons for that.
Magnificent coaching effort from Mick.
From the way some people post on this forum criticizing Micks moves, you would think that we can make the eight.
I have got news for you, we can't. So nothing wrong with putting Bell on Fyffe. If Mick thought that Bell was ready, now he knows how far away Bell is from being a top footballer, let alone about his poor skills.
We are not a top four side and won't be with blokes like Rowe and Ellard. Yes, I know some of you defend Rowe, but he would not get a look in at Hawthorn, the Swans, Geelong, Freo, and I won't go on. Neither would Ellard.
They are plugging a hole in our personnel.
The usual suspects kept us in it.
Levi was asleep, White just went, Docherty fks up too much, and when he needs to, can't hit a target. He'll be O.K. but needs to improve.
It was a nice effort with the usual result because we lack the 6 class players to get us into the top 4.
As far as Wood goes, the only reason he panicked and kicked instead of handing off to Simmo, is that he has been out for two years. but I thought he was pretty good tonight.
I hope they re-sign Mick for another 3 years.
We are where we are because of skill errors.
Also...WHY THE FRIGG ARE THE UMPIRES SO AGAINST US.
ALWAYS THE 50/50 BALL GOAS AGAINST US, AN UTTER LOAD OF CRAP.
I even had my Richmond mate, who absolutely hates the Blues asking why are the umps so bias towards Freo. UTTER BULLDUST.
IF THE UMPS BLEW THEIR WHISTLE AND PAID LEGIT FREES.... >:(
How many more times are we going to be robbed?
I thought the umps were not that bad tonight, on the whole. They gave 6 frees against Crowley, a first, I am sure. We were stiff at the end when the umps forgot what a mark was (and we forgot to show them how it was done). Considering the home town decisions that ALWAYS flow, we did as well from the umps as we could.
As to how any times more we are going to be robbed? That is going to depend on how soon some of our lads get used to the pressure and start to keep their composure. A little more talent, especially in the midfield and the ruck would help too. But I think we are not that far away. We start to win one or two of these and we'll start to win a lot more of them.
I thought Wood was pretty good tonight considering who he was up against and its a shame that his errant rushed kick ended up giving them the winning goal. He shouldn't be held responsible for the loss, there was a myriad of other reasons for that.
Agree
We are the nth melb of the 2014 season. Lack of composure has killed us in so many games.
I still reckon we are closer than ost people think. Yes we need some key depth but gees we've given some good teams the heebie geebies.
Did something tonight that we haven't done for year. Sat a tagger on his ar$e more often than not and protected our man. We are maturing. Juddy might even be enjoying his footy again too!!
That was such a good thing. Murphy stood up for himself and his teammates did too. Even Judd took Crowley away from Murphy. That was excellent to watch.
Crowley, clearly trying to extend his career by being a parasite. Has not skill. nly good at giving cheap shots behind play. Good on Murph for not taking his crape. He would have let Crowley be all over him in years passsed.
Did something tonight that we haven't done for year. Sat a tagger on his ar$e more often than not and protected our man. We are maturing. Juddy might even be enjoying his footy again too!!
That was such a good thing. Murphy stood up for himself and his teammates did too. Even Judd took Crowley away from Murphy. That was excellent to watch.
And that was Graham who put him on his arse. It was sooo beautiful to watch in slo mo.
Lost 6 games by under 15 points. Most of any other side.
Magnificent coaching effort from Mick.
From the way some people post on this forum criticizing Micks moves, you would think that we can make the eight.
I have got news for you, we can't. So nothing wrong with putting Bell on Fyffe. If Mick thought that Bell was ready, now he knows how far away Bell is from being a top footballer, let alone about his poor skills.
We are not a top four side and won't be with blokes like Rowe and Ellard. Yes, I know some of you defend Rowe, but he would not get a look in at Hawthorn, the Swans, Geelong, Freo, and I won't go on. Neither would Ellard.
They are plugging a hole in our personnel.
The usual suspects kept us in it.
Levi was asleep, White just went, Docherty fks up too much, and when he needs to, can't hit a target. He'll be O.K. but needs to improve.
It was a nice effort with the usual result because we lack the 6 class players to get us into the top 4.
As far as Wood goes, the only reason he panicked and kicked instead of handing off to Simmo, is that he has been out for two years. but I thought he was pretty good tonight.
I hope they re-sign Mick for another 3 years.
In the last few weeks Malthouse has really shown that he still has it as a coach. For much of the year I wondered, as have many here. I still wonder with our team selections: having to play Broke as sub was not a winning move.
However, the guys appear to be playing more for him lately and his skill and strategic planning has been more evident.
Now we need to improve the list and get all the talent on the same page.
I was pleased murphy didn't allow himself to get pushed around - the first time they met this year, Crowley destroyed him and his confidence
Our mis-kicks went straight to a Freo player. Their mis-kicks went straight to ... a Freo player.
Sigh. Cruel. So cruel.
Did something tonight that we haven't done for year. Sat a tagger on his ar$e more often than not and protected our man. We are maturing. Juddy might even be enjoying his footy again too!!
Agree. Result is irrelevant and all we should be concerned with is next year and using the remaining games to extract as much as we can from the current list so as to take stock and make the changes necessary. Wood f@cked up sure, but at what cost? None. A lot more positives were on show in this game.
I don't mind the loss at this point. We played good footy and weren't embarrassed against a top 4 side.
I don't think we'll miss Carrazzo or McLean next year but Judd needs to play on and Graham needs to play every game for the rest of the year. I'm starting to have faith in Malthouse and our core group of players.
At the end of the day, Pick 6 and a favourable draw for next year is what we should be playing for IMO.
I thought Wood was pretty good tonight considering who he was up against and its a shame that his errant rushed kick ended up giving them the winning goal. He shouldn't be held responsible for the loss, there was a myriad of other reasons for that.
Agree
It was not all of Wood's fault we lost. About half the team can take their share of the blame.
As for Wood's game, he wasn't bad. He gets the ball and gives a target. Unfortunately he gets pounded at the taps: according to the stats, Sandilands had 46 taps and Clarke 21 taps. Wood had 12, while Casboult had 10. That means we lost the tap 3 times for every one we won.
For all that, Wood's pressure did make Sandilands and Clarke less effective, while his ability to get the ball around the ground was good.
But he is no more than answer to our ruck woes than Warnock is. We need someone who gets taps and who gets kicks around the ground.
I am pleased that Wood is getting games: his efforts in the VFL deserved it. I am also pleased with his efforts. But, as well as he does, he still does not give our mids the taps to advantage that we need, especially in tight games.
We are the nth melb of the 2014 season. Lack of composure has killed us in so many games.
I still reckon we are closer than ost people think. Yes we need some key depth but gees we've given some good teams the heebie geebies.
Yes. Just hope we don't go losing to sh1t teams next year after having huge wins...lol.
We are the nth melb of the 2014 season.
Understand your sentiment, but North are still the North of the 2014 season. Killing me in my tipping comp. >:(
Freo are such a dirty negating team, so typical a Lyon team.
Big pre season recruit wise and on the track, and we ll be on the right track next year.
Showing we can match it with the big boys. One bad quarter against the Swans and the rest of the last month has been pretty good.
Just need to learn to keep our composure in the close ones.
Micks got the team playing some good footy. He ll weed out those who cant compete.
Nothing much from Johnson and Graham,
We missed Menz and Dre.
Robbo would ve been handy tonight to give Crowley one of his left hook specials.
That's 6 losses under 15 pts this year.
Unfortunately he gets pounded at the taps: according to the stats, Sandilands had 46 taps and Clarke 21 taps. Wood had 12, while Casboult had 10.
JUst on that, Casboult is definitely getting the hang of around the ground ruckwork, I saw him monster Clarke a few times in that ruck situation.
This is the sort of win our group really needed, to build some belief. dominated the game but didn't hit the scoreboard and particularly disappointed in Ellard. Two of footballs easier chances to convert directly in front went almost missed completely.
Unfortunately Tuohy's fifty metre penalty swung the momentum back to Freo again and that's where I felt the game was slipping away from us again. Too many errors in our game.
I don't mind the loss at this point. We played good footy and weren't embarrassed against a top 4 side.
I don't think we'll miss Carrazzo or McLean next year but Judd needs to play on and Graham needs to play every game for the rest of the year. I'm starting to have faith in Malthouse and our core group of players.
At the end of the day, Pick 6 and a favourable draw for next year is what we should be playing for IMO.
In the days and weeks to come, and especially on Draft Day, I won't mind that we didn't win: we will get a lot more out of the game than Freo will. They may have won the 4 points, but that is all they got out of the game. Their next opponents, especially those with a bit more talent than we have, are going to use tonight to really hurt Freo in the weeks to come. They will probably not get a top 4 spot.
On the other hand, we will get a top pick and will get a slightly easier draw, as MilkIt noted. With the year we have experienced, that is the prize for us at this point.
A couple of weeks back, I didn't expect to win another game for the year. I was hoping we would not get thrashed. I have to re-evaluate those thoughts: on present form we are playing much better than Gold Coast, Port Adelaide and maybe Essendon. Even Sydney only outplayed us for 1 quarter (granted that we played our worst quarter for the year, while Sydney played their best, but that is another tale).Those teams had better take us seriously, or even with our present weakened line-up, we are going to give them nightmares. I look forward to that. I want them to have nightmares about us for years and years to come.
To quote Merlin the Magician: "A dream to some. A NIGHTMARE TO OTHERS!" >:D >:D >:D
Phrases like we deserve to win are a nonsense
Have to agree.
They are on the same level as phrases like "I'm shocked to be sitting here" which show contempt for the game.
Just got back from the game I didn't expect a win so not overly disappointed, just happy we were competitive.
Few points
Thought sandilands had a huge impact, he would just sit in our forward line and read everything.
Decision making was good at times, but was very poor, ie Waite trying to be fancy and murphys misplaced kick to yarran.
Our quick kicks out of the pack are a huge huge problem. I don't understand how this isn't addressed, opposition teams just exploit this time and time again.
I gotta say I sure do miss watching Eddie up close
Well I got 4 qtrs of effort, and I'm happy about that.
Poor kicking is poor footy, too many easy shots at goal missed.
Too many forward 50 entries marked by the opposition.
We are also still missing tackles and allowing players to run around them instead of corralling and forcing them to pull up and/or head backwards.
We had the intensity to night and that was pleasing, we just need to work on some of the basic skill and decision making errors that we were making.
Juddy's still got it, Wood is a way better option than Warnock.
We did all right considering who we had out.
I don't mind the loss at this point. We played good footy and weren't embarrassed against a top 4 side.
I don't think we'll miss Carrazzo or McLean next year but Judd needs to play on and Graham needs to play every game for the rest of the year. I'm starting to have faith in Malthouse and our core group of players.
At the end of the day, Pick 6 and a favourable draw for next year is what we should be playing for IMO.
At the moment I can't see Broke going on: being the sub is not the role he needs. He needs game time to make an impact, while our team needs to reinvent our midfield and get a replacement for Judd.
Carrots, on the other hand, had a very good night getting clearances and negating Freo mids. Curnow also did an excellent job negating Hill to almost complete impotence.
Barlow and Fyffe were the only Freo mids to get away from us, and that only in the last quarter.
Similarly for us was Tuohy: he didn't get his usual numbers, but he killed Ballantyne for all but about 5 minutes. That was enough for him to make a mark, but Tuohy really did keep his man to 8 possessions for the night, half on them in the last quarter.
I was really surprised that Tom Bell had only 9 possessions: he had plenty of good taps ons and tackles and chases and spoils and was really quite good until Fyffe outsprinted him in the last quarter. Similarly Graham, who had only 10. He had more impact than that suggested. I think he missed out a bit because he hasn't spent the time in the senior midfield enough yet: he is not the guy they think to handball to yet. He is used to being the primary clearance player to a winning ruck. In the seniors we no longer win in the ruck and Judd, Murphy, Carrots and Gibbs are the primary targets for clearances. Graham should improve as they players around him get more used to him and confident that he will get the job done.
Might only win 8 games this year but we've looked more a footy side than we have for a long while. MM is coaching more to our strengths, we are playing for him accordingly, players are improving, we have younger blokes actually coming through, other lesser types are developing that we didn't expect, which is typical of MM's coaching, alot better defensively, taking the opposition on more physically, not taking as much sh1t, and have system going forward with real targets. Hope Waite can play a couple more years.
We still made schoolboy blunders but there alot more stability and substance suddenly in our game than there has been for many a long year . Get rid of the 3-5 red time goals we still give up a game and we'll be alot better off. Might'nt have won alot but we've been given more hope than we ever were last year, and up to mid-year this year, where we were fragile but benefited from many fancy come from behind specials that got us to the finals in 2013. There' been some substance recently in our footy, just need a bit more composure. We show when we do turn it on for periods we really can look a good side.
Sides have shown it doesn't take long at all to turn things around so you never know.
Freo are such a dirty negating team, so typical a Lyon team.
And it wasn't just Crowell and Ballentine either, it the whole team.
If I had of been playing for the Blues tonight the tribunal would be more than likely giving me the rest of the year off.... >:D
Freo are such a dirty negating team, so typical a Lyon team.
And it wasn't just Crowell and Ballentine either, it the whole team.
If I had of been playing for the Blues tonight the tribunal would be more than likely giving me the rest of the year off.... >:D
Irks me that in Lyons press conference he couldn't admit that they were fortunate to win. He talked like they beat us comfortably. We did make mistakes but they played far from their best.
Daisy's best game for the Blues is another positive. He'll be like a new recruit next year.
Chris Yarran is something special, he defends when he has to, but what he can do with ball in hand is just WOW !!
It was nice to see Murph and the rest of the team stand up for themselves. We haven't done that very well in the past, so I see that as a big step in the right direction. We didn't let them push us around or intimidate us.
JK I thought the umpires were harsh on us, again. I'm sick of it. But the only way to overcome it is to be good enough to win even with their bias.
Mitch Robinson in this side tonight would have made it interesting
If Mitch played tonight we would have won .... simple. :'(
You can not play three slows ie Curnow, Carrots and McLean in the same side.
A few things bothered me tonight. >:(
We lacked the intestinal fortitude tonight, it was hard watching it unfold from the box....
I think we sometimes forget how to win.
Overall it was a great night at the game, plenty of tucker and drinks in the box to feed a small army.
Was at the game.
Make no mistake we owned that game.
Docker at full strength and we didn't have Everitt (for Fyfe) Menzel,walker .
Really happy with the way we played , it wasn't just brave it was structured .
That's an important difference .
Wel coached Mick.
Freo are such a dirty negating team, so typical a Lyon team.
And it wasn't just Crowell and Ballentine either, it the whole team.
If I had of been playing for the Blues tonight the tribunal would be more than likely giving me the rest of the year off.... >:D
Irks me that in Lyons press conference he couldn't admit that they were fortunate to win. He talked like they beat us comfortably. We did make mistakes but they played far from their best.
Two reasons for this:
1 They were expected to win and they did no matter if they pinched it or not.
2 We arent respected in the football world and other coaches players etc treat us such.
The day point 1 and the opposite to point 2 applies to us, I will be a very happy man.
Twas a great effort no doubt but in the end when it's all said and done if Brisbane beat Melbourne tomorrow they are on equal wins with us so that says everything about our year. We could have/should have won around another six games which means we are good enough to be playing finals football IMO. Still, after the last few weeks I am more buoyant about our prospects next year, I just hope we dont sign Mick until he proves himself, somehow I think that won't be the case.
Great to see Murphy take no sht and Crowley on his hands and knees off the ball. I think the most impressive thing is the way we approached the game, the boys were up and they came to not just play but to win.
Graham was great for a few game player, put Crowley down for the count. Now hat was funny he didn't know who got him. And he also took Pavlich out. Unfortunate for Pav and was just an accident but slowly we are no longer the easy push overs we once were.
So the last 3 games we have come to play for 11 of the 12 qtrs. good stuff boys and MM is starting to understand the players he has.
FINALLY LIGHT AT THE END OF THIS LOOOONG DARK TUNNEL. :-\
Mitch Robinson in this side tonight would have made it interesting
If Mitch played tonight we would have won .... simple. :'(
If Mitch had played tonight it would have been his last game until July 2015 ;)
We need to get a few of the younger guys a lot fitter.
They have little impact late in games.
Their skills would improve out of sight.
Wasn't just Wood, Murphy's non pass to Yarran....
Docherty OOTF....
Casboult.......
Get fitter, run out games better and don't get out scored in the last minutes of quarters.
We need to be a lot more ruthless next year
Twas a great effort no doubt but in the end when it's all said and done if Brisbane beat Melbourne tomorrow they are on equal wins with us so that says everything about our year. We could have/should have won around another six games which means we are good enough to be playing finals football IMO. Still, after the last few weeks I am more buoyant about our prospects next year, I just hope we dont sign Mick until he proves himself, somehow I think that won't be the case.
Great to see Murphy take no sht and Crowley on his hands and knees off the ball. I think the most impressive thing is the way we approached the game, the boys were up and they came to not just play but to win.
LIKE
I'm not too disappointed in the end result as the boys stuck to their guns. In the end an absolute champ in Fyfe refuses to let his season die and drags his team with him over the line. In contrast, on 4 occassions we made bad mistakes in the dying moments, we don't bork out 1 and we win. Good signs IMO.
How far has Murphy come along? Gibbs is getting Kouta like in the forward 50 stoppages where you half expect him to snaffle a sausage whenever he is there.
I was ready to fly over to WA myself to put Thomas down and out of our collective misery but very strong finish. If he finishes the year off with that form, I'll be a little bit less grumpy about the signing
We are missing a quality small forward. If we had one last night,,, we win
We are missing a quality small forward. If we had one last night,,, we win
We have two. One was out with bone bruising. The other is doing who knows what in the NB's.
Certainly there was plenty more on show last night to feel cheerful about. We may well have turned a corner and are now headed in the right direction. Good experience for the likes of Graham and Johnson and Wood again looked OK. All of them should be played for the remaining games.
The difference in the end was probably Fyfe with some late input from Ballantyne. Demonstrates the importance of quality talent and we need to bolster ours for next year.
Gutted by the loss of course but it's good to come on here and read the positivity that's being shown by most posters.
I thought Wood was pretty good tonight considering who he was up against and its a shame that his errant rushed kick ended up giving them the winning goal. He shouldn't be held responsible for the loss, there was a myriad of other reasons for that.
x2...Wood was ok and I dont blame him for the loss.......Ellards blunders, Casboults rubber hands, etc were all factors
Fyfe murdered us and was assisted by Ballantyne who got off the leash.....
Touhy's defensive work has to be questioned......had 4 kicked on him by Thomas last week and another three this week including that brain dead 50 he gave away.
I felt the Dockers mids got on top in the last and we had nothing much to stop them....Judd was stuffed, Bell was useless on Fyfe, Gibbs found life tough vs the bigger bodied Mundy, Fyfe etc and only Murphy was handy...
Brock was a poor choice of sub when we needed run and carry......watched him plodding after one of the dockers player's and it was sad viewing...
Daisy used the ball well although he was cherry picking off half back but I guess malthouse tried to get him into the game and thats fair enough..
Docherty was handy...
Rowe didnt have a matchup unless Clarke played forward and that seem to throw us down back.....
Not a bad effort and while we lost I thought Graham showed he can play seniors and Waite continued on from last week and looked interested...
Echoing the comments others have already made.
Very good 4Q effort by the players + coaches. As other have said, silly errors and bad kicking for goal cost us. As already noted, we didn't look like headless chooks for a change. Most of the game, players were in the right place at the right time.
Bravo CFC.
Certainly there was plenty more on show last night to feel cheerful about. We may well have turned a corner and are now headed in the right direction. Good experience for the likes of Graham and Johnson and Wood again looked OK. All of them should be played for the remaining games.
The difference in the end was probably Fyfe with some late input from Ballantyne. Demonstrates the importance of quality talent and we need to bolster ours for next year.
Gutted by the loss of course but it's good to come on here and read the positivity that's being shown by most posters.
x2
I think that we have played better in the last two weeks than we have for the entire season.
It's like something has just switched on and they've decided that they are going to turn up and show a bit of mongrel, and throw some class in there too.
You can not play three slows ie Curnow, Carrots and McLean in the same side.
Why does our MC choose a slow endurance runner as the sub, we do it over and over again and it doesn't work. McLean's best games are always four quarter efforts in which his continual motion runs an opponent into the ground. Had the large Freo bodies spent the first three quarters trying to move McLean off the ball instead of the lighter weights the last quarter would have been interesting and perhaps different.
We played Graham as sub for three or four games, the kids at best goes in 2nd gear for four quarters and tackles like a lunatic so we maek him sub!
McLean jogs up and down the ground almost continually and uses footy brains to out position opponents. McLean doesn't come on the ground and burn off anybody!
All this says to me, we don't understand the sub, it's another new trick our old coach has to learn for us to have a chance!
Had to follow it on radio and from the way they were going on, Freo was crucified by the umps so I guess umpiring it is all a point of relative perspective.
MacLean as sub was plain stupid, but we don't have a lot of options at the moment.
Our talls were much less effective this week against real defenders.
Pleased that we gave an honest effort but lack of composure in the last 10 minutes was telling - plus they simply have more class. Yet again poor kicking for goal when it counted. We should have been well up at half and three quarter time as it was IMO.
The turning point was Touhy's stupid 50 - up until that point he had played well, and yes Ballantyne is a pest, but you just don't do stuff like that. We lost control completely when Docherty kicked OOB - I doubt we got a meaningful possession after that... instead of a goal or trapped in our F50 it went forward until chance inevitably hurts you. All this represents a lack of composure, which is probably an experience and in part skill thing.
I said after the game versus this mob last year that Veale was a gun and I stand by that. Has quietly become a very solid player.
Freo are such a dirty negating team, so typical a Lyon team.
And it wasn't just Crowell and Ballentine either, it the whole team.
If I had of been playing for the Blues tonight the tribunal would be more than likely giving me the rest of the year off.... >:D
Irks me that in Lyons press conference he couldn't admit that they were fortunate to win. He talked like they beat us comfortably. We did make mistakes but they played far from their best.
I know murph received 6 frees from Crowley, but what about the 47 they didn't pay? I know hendo got a couple of frees from that spud Dawson - but he should have broken fanning's record the way Dawson held, scragged and chopped his arms EVERY time he went near the footy (and each free he gave away resulted in a performance from Dawson of "what, me?" That had to be seen to be believed), I don't know how juddy had it 20 times in the first half, when he was tackled before he had the footy at every contest - super human!
I hated monotone "it's all about the brand" Lyon at stkilda, and if possible he is worse at freo. The way they play is just terrible for the game. Bar fugue and hill, none of their players try to win an even contest. The scragging, pushing, holding had my blood boiling all night. Just the little pushing blokes heads into the ground while getting up from a pack, and holding onto the footy for a sec longer after giving a way a free, cribbing the mark. They must be really proud the way they play
The commentators (WAs own commetti and who? Zemplis ) actually talked about the frees in our favour, but it's not the point , they had the guts to pay one or two early, but couldn't bring themselves to keep paying them, especially late when it mattered. AFL needs to do something. And not just look at the free count, it doesn't tell the whole story
BTW - basil, can you tell us that riveting story about freo's white jumper again??
Mil, Dawson has been holding forwards by both arms since the day dot... but the umps are blind too it. It has been a blight on the game for years. I've been to games and heard him referred to as the "backpack" (it goes around both arms and over the shoulders...).
You can not play three slows ie Curnow, Carrots and McLean in the same side.
Why does our MC choose a slow endurance runner as the sub, we do it over and over again and it doesn't work. McLean's best games are always four quarter efforts in which his continual motion runs an opponent into the ground. Had the large Freo bodies spent the first three quarters trying to move McLean off the ball instead of the lighter weights the last quarter would have been interesting and perhaps different.
We played Graham as sub for three or four games, the kids at best goes in 2nd gear for four quarters and tackles like a lunatic so we maek him sub!
McLean jogs up and down the ground almost continually and uses footy brains to out position opponents. McLean doesn't come on the ground and burn off anybody!
All this says to me, we don't understand the sub, it's another new trick our old coach has to learn for us to have a chance!
I actually think Sugar is our best sub - about the only one (other than menzel) to have a real impact when brought on late
Freo are such a dirty negating team, so typical a Lyon team.
And it wasn't just Crowell and Ballentine either, it the whole team.
If I had of been playing for the Blues tonight the tribunal would be more than likely giving me the rest of the year off.... >:D
Irks me that in Lyons press conference he couldn't admit that they were fortunate to win. He talked like they beat us comfortably. We did make mistakes but they played far from their best.
I know murph received 6 frees from Crowley, but what about the 47 they didn't pay? I know hendo got a couple of frees from that spud Dawson - but he should have broken fanning's record the way Dawson held, scragged and chopped his arms EVERY time he went near the footy (and each free he gave away resulted in a performance from Dawson of "what, me?" That had to be seen to be believed), I don't know how juddy had it 20 times in the first half, when he was tackled before he had the footy at every contest - super human!
I hated monotone "it's all about the brand" Lyon at stkilda, and if possible he is worse at freo. The way they play is just terrible for the game. Bar fugue and hill, none of their players try to win an even contest. The scragging, pushing, holding had my blood boiling all night. Just the little pushing blokes heads into the ground while getting up from a pack, and holding onto the footy for a sec longer after giving a way a free, cribbing the mark. They must be really proud the way they play
The commentators (WAs own commetti and who? Zemplis ) actually talked about the frees in our favour, but it's not the point , they had the guts to pay one or two early, but couldn't bring themselves to keep paying them, especially late when it mattered. AFL needs to do something. And not just look at the free count, it doesn't tell the whole story
BTW - basil, can you tell us that riveting story about freo's white jumper again??
Agree - well said.
Mil, Dawson has been holding forwards by both arms since the day dot... but the umps are blind too it. It has been a blight on the game for years. I've been to games and heard him referred to as the "backpack" (it goes around both arms and over the shoulders...).
Backpack - classic.
re: Crowley....the game is getting tougher for him....umpies are allowing him to be hammered while free kicking his opponents for any slight hold/50/50 tackle etc. Thought we did a good job in blocking for Murphy and Crowley copped some treatment both on and off the ball....hard for his coach to complain given Crowley's tactics but I think you might hear Ross Lyon complaining if it continues as i thought Crowley wasnt a factor last night and was a passenger given his low possie count.
How many things did we cock up? Murphy to Yarran running into goal. Casboult's non marking, Ellard's kicking for goal. Docherty's OOB. Touhys 50. Carrazzo stopping instead of going for the ball. Bell disinterest in running with Fyfe, Woods kick. Change any one and we win.
No more talk from me about the negatives.
What I took from this game; a great effort given from the team.
First Murphy standing up to Crowley and saying no more, loved the elbow to the guts. >:D
Loved how the team belted Crowley every chance they got and basically let him know that if he wanted to give Murph cheap shots all night he was going to cop plenty back. Loved how when Murph was scragged there was two Carlton players in to help. That is how you build culture in a club.
Loved how Gibbs got a bit nasty and "fell" into Ballentynes head with his forearm. >:D
Blaine Johnson looked good again with his tackling as did Graham.
Simmo was outstanding with his marking, I clapped several times watching the TV. For a man his size to go into harms way so often reminds me a fair bit of Ken Hunter.
Waite again showed his value, either to us as a player or as a compensation pick if he leaves via free agency.
Henderson showed why we must use him of half back, that run where he beat two Freo opponents by using the angles was just smart. At CHB he was doing that 3-4 times a game. Mick Hendo is a backman, leave him there. Rowe is serviceable at best but he's not the potential AA that Lachie could be.
We are 2-3 class players away from being a real threat. Daisy might become that next season as I've seen signs of him returning to his best. An injury free pre season and me may have the player we paid for.
Hated the result, loved the resolve.
Mil, Dawson has been holding forwards by both arms since the day dot... but the umps are blind too it. It has been a blight on the game for years. I've been to games and heard him referred to as the "backpack" (it goes around both arms and over the shoulders...).
I just can't get over the holding of Judd by the arms off the ball.
At one stage the commentators were lauding Fyfe's resolve to attack the ball, but he only got there first because he pulled Juddy by the wrist to off-balance him. And not just in last night's game - happens regularly. Obviously a ploy because it's harder for the umpires to spot someone being held by the wrist/forearm than it is a jumper. Needs to be the next 'grey' area to be addressed by the umpires.
I'm not too disappointed in the end result as the boys stuck to their guns. In the end an absolute champ in Fyfe refuses to let his season die and drags his team with him over the line. In contrast, on 4 occassions we made bad mistakes in the dying moments, we don't bork out 1 and we win. Good signs IMO.
The difference was our champ is 31 got his ankle smashed otherwise we win. ;)
How far has Murphy come along? Gibbs is getting Kouta like in the forward 50 stoppages where you half expect him to snaffle a sausage whenever he is there.
Ridiculous how tough and hard Murphy has become in the last 2 months. There was one stoppage where Crowley was holding on to him the ball came their way and Murphy ripped it off him and broke the tackle then in heavy traffic smashed through a couple and then dummied another. He got caught in the end but the contested effort was amazing. Reminded me of Judd in his heyday, taking on each contest like it was his last.
I was ready to fly over to WA myself to put Thomas down and out of our collective misery but very strong finish. If he finishes the year off with that form, I'll be a little bit less grumpy about the signing
Me I thought he was just okay, he got a lot of touches when we switched the ball and they were marks out wide on the wing. He made two awful errors in the last quarter turning it over under no pressure and then the spilled mark inside defensive 50m. Still, he did get plenty of touches so at least he was in the game for once. Kicking still a massive issue.
The mark that Levi dropped was terrible which led to Woods unfortunat kick I do not blame him.
Can anyone tell me why Ellard gets a game other thasn the photo's, the video, the recording and U Tube clips of Mick, a sheep and an underage midget playing nude twister that he obviously has.
He is short, slow, can't mark over his head and from last night can't kick. He lays a few tackles, that is only because he isn't first to the ball. He has been subbed a couple of times but they keep picking him, missing goals (lucky to kick a point from) 30 metres out is inexcusable and then later to try and dribble it from the outside of his boot for I think out of bounds is a disgrace.
Poor Poor football kept teh Freos in the game>
I cannot be convinced that Armfield is not a better bet, tries to break lines can kick goals and could have gone down on to Ballantyne.
I support Mick but not on this one
I am disappointed... Freo were very gettable, we had plenty of chances. Symbolic of the last two seasons.
We dominated the 3rd qtr, but wasted it by chipping the ball around half back. That was the time to take a risk. We were a goal or 2 away from sealing it that qtr.
The effort was there, but no composure or skill when it really mattered.
Whilst the tactic deployed by MM to switch the ball back and forth across the ground worked quite well I thought we overdid it a little and should have attacked in some scenarios.
The mark that Levi dropped was terrible which led to Woods unfortunat kick I do not blame him.
Can anyone tell me why Ellard gets a game other thasn the photo's, the video, the recording and U Tube clips of Mick, a sheep and an underage midget playing nude twister that he obviously has.
He is short, slow, can't mark over his head and from last night can't kick. He lays a few tackles, that is only because he isn't first to the ball. He has been subbed a couple of times but they keep picking him, missing goals (lucky to kick a point from) 30 metres out is inexcusable and then later to try and dribble it from the outside of his boot for I think out of bounds is a disgrace.
Poor Poor football kept teh Freos in the game>
I cannot be convinced that Armfield is not a better bet, tries to break lines can kick goals and could have gone down on to Ballantyne.
I support Mick but not on this one
Yep Levi had a shocker...I thought it was Hampson like the way he tried to take the ball and that last dropped mark was the reason that Freo forced it forward and ended up with the Wood turn over.
Armfield has been terrible...like he has something else bothering him.....no zip in his game, weak tackling etc etc.....
Ellard is a battler but gets found out vs decent competition and we need better...
I think its my fault chaps.
I traded Wood into my DT side yesterday.
Then I listened to the game on the radio in the man cave, until my brew was finished, then I went inside and caught the last 5mins on tv. That's when it went slightly pear shaped. Bah!
So blame me.
Overall though, as per many other posters not too disappointed with the result.
A bottom 6 finish and a top 6 pick is muchly required next season.
More positives for us than them in that game. Freo are not much chop, like Port currently too...
I am disappointed... Freo were very gettable, we had plenty of chances. Symbolic of the last two seasons.
We dominated the 3rd qtr, but wasted it by chipping the ball around half back. That was the time to take a risk. We were a goal or 2 away from sealing it that qtr.
The effort was there, but no composure or skill when it really mattered.
Agree.
Freo weren't at their best, and you can argue whether they had an off night or whether we pressured them into playing that way. Either way, it matters not. They were a hell of a lot tighter and more focused than Norf, and to think that our boys were ahead with about 1 minute to go, playing them on their own dung heap, was great to see. And to think Cas and Rowe were well down on previous weeks. Well done again to coaches and players.
re: Crowley....the game is getting tougher for him....umpies are allowing him to be hammered while free kicking his opponents for any slight hold/50/50 tackle etc. Thought we did a good job in blocking for Murphy and Crowley copped some treatment both on and off the ball....hard for his coach to complain given Crowley's tactics but I think you might hear Ross Lyon complaining if it continues as i thought Crowley wasnt a factor last night and was a passenger given his low possie count.
It was funny when that twerp commentator Basil (Fawlty?) was on about Crowley who had been felled behind play and couldn't get up off his knees. Babbling Bazza was going on about "He's on his knees, he's on his knees, what happened, who did that to him!!" etc. etc. No one else was giving a rat's bum. :))
I think its my fault chaps.
I traded Wood into my DT side yesterday.
Then I listened to the game on the radio in the man cave, until my brew was finished, then I went inside and caught the last 5mins on tv. That's when it went slightly pear shaped. Bah!
So blame me.
Overall though, as per many other posters not too disappointed with the result.
A bottom 6 finish and a top 6 pick is muchly required next season.
More positives for us than them in that game. Freo are not much chop, like Port currently too...
You'll be playing in the magoos until the end of the season, then delisted.
@Bancroft
Mate, we need to at least be replacing Ellard, Armfield, Brock and Carrots with some decent midfield talent next year if we are to move forward from last night. OK, Carrots does sometimes show something but he's rapidly getting past it and we need someone younger with more zip to replace him.
Mil, Dawson has been holding forwards by both arms since the day dot... but the umps are blind too it. It has been a blight on the game for years. I've been to games and heard him referred to as the "backpack" (it goes around both arms and over the shoulders...).
I just can't get over the holding of Judd by the arms off the ball.
At one stage the commentators were lauding Fyfe's resolve to attack the ball, but he only got there first because he pulled Juddy by the wrist to off-balance him. And not just in last night's game - happens regularly. Obviously a ploy because it's harder for the umpires to spot someone being held by the wrist/forearm than it is a jumper. Needs to be the next 'grey' area to be addressed by the umpires.
Fyfe is a fair player but I was surprised we didnt get a bit more physical with him...I have seen Jordan Lewis play on him especially at stoppages and Fyfe doesnt have the same
impact He is blocked from running through and doesnt seem as keen to contest like he did vs us....our blokes gave him too much space to move in.
The Hawks really gang tackle him hard and we couldnt seem to lay a finger on him.....he walked through five of our players at one stage without a tackle laid and I couldnt believe
we didnt do more to stop him...
As bitterly dissapointing as last nights loss was at least we looked like we were going to win. As is too often the case our errors cost us dearly. Still some positives are in play but I’m a bit too scarred from previous years to let myself get too carried away with what the future may hold.
However depressing it all was last night, I’ll be more peed-off if we follow-up next week with a dismal effort against Gold Coast and lose again against a side we should beat, again.
You can not play three slows ie Curnow, Carrots and McLean in the same side.
Why does our MC choose a slow endurance runner as the sub, we do it over and over again and it doesn't work. McLean's best games are always four quarter efforts in which his continual motion runs an opponent into the ground. Had the large Freo bodies spent the first three quarters trying to move McLean off the ball instead of the lighter weights the last quarter would have been interesting and perhaps different.
We played Graham as sub for three or four games, the kids at best goes in 2nd gear for four quarters and tackles like a lunatic so we maek him sub!
McLean jogs up and down the ground almost continually and uses footy brains to out position opponents. McLean doesn't come on the ground and burn off anybody!
All this says to me, we don't understand the sub, it's another new trick our old coach has to learn for us to have a chance!
We need to re-incarnate Fraser Murphy as a permanent sub. How good was he off the bench back when it was used differently.
The mark that Levi dropped was terrible which led to Woods unfortunat kick I do not blame him.
Can anyone tell me why Ellard gets a game other thasn the photo's, the video, the recording and U Tube clips of Mick, a sheep and an underage midget playing nude twister that he obviously has.
He is short, slow, can't mark over his head and from last night can't kick. He lays a few tackles, that is only because he isn't first to the ball. He has been subbed a couple of times but they keep picking him, missing goals (lucky to kick a point from) 30 metres out is inexcusable and then later to try and dribble it from the outside of his boot for I think out of bounds is a disgrace.
Poor Poor football kept teh Freos in the game>
I cannot be convinced that Armfield is not a better bet, tries to break lines can kick goals and could have gone down on to Ballantyne.
I support Mick but not on this one
Yep Levi had a shocker...I thought it was Hampson like the way he tried to take the ball and that last dropped mark was the reason that Freo forced it forward and ended up with the Wood turn over.
Armfield has been terrible...like he has something else bothering him.....no zip in his game, weak tackling etc etc.....
Ellard is a battler but gets found out vs decent competition and we need better...
Levi's first full season as a ruck/forward. He might be just going off the boil slightly as the year comes to a close. Shown enough though to suggest he'll be good for us into the future.
It's unlike Armfield so I'm not sure what's happening there. Usually his speed and tacking is very handy. The way we're running now it might just suit him next year though. That type of foot soldier playing well are handy going both ways.
Ellard's been handy at times for a rookie but no more than a depth player. We really don't need him. What's up with his goalkicking. He never used to miss. Bad misses and giving up red time goals kill us in low scoring games.
Murphy is totally becoming the Captain we can be proud of - his effort last night was unbelievable, loved seeing the boys give it to that pest Crowley and Murph not staging for free kicks, being aggressive and getting his dues.
The umpiring was okay - the crowd really make a fuss when it's a 50/50 not called for Freo, and pretty much every single time, the next 50/50 was paid to them. It would be hard for the umpires to switch off from that, but they do need to.
Thought it was GREAT that they kept paying against Crowley - if Lyon and the AFL thinks it's good viewing to have kids watching this hack harass the good players physically, they are very wrong. Sends the wrong message to juniors IMO.
WTF was Waitey doing with that stupid side kick near the end, that went straight to freo? Could've handballed over him, and the CFC player running in for goal >:( Still, will be extremely disappointed if Waite leaves.
Daisy - for what he's getting paid - should do more. Yes, I'm impressed he follows the ball, doesn't stand and watch, but his composure isn't great for someone of his experience. Should've marked that ball in D50 easily. Someone of Wood's experience gets let off for stupid mistakes near end of quarters, ones with Daisy's experience should not.
Overall, loved watching the effort, especially Murph and of course Juddy. Hope he plays on next year!
@MickeyO
On the subject of Juddy, IMO he's re-invigorated and looks very fresh and keen as mustard. I'd be very very surprised if he doesn't saddle up for at least another year as long as injuries don't come into play.
I thought the free kick situation was about 50/50, I suppose having two WA commentators is untenable but I do understand the economics of the situation.
@ProfE. I gather the radio crowd probably made it sound far worse than it was, but the simple situation was that Freo had no run and Carlton were first to the ball for almost 3 quarters of the game.
If we hadn't wasted so many shots at goal we should have been at least 5 goals up sometime early in the 3 quarter.
freo didnt play good ,2 men down, we played good yet we still lost.Cannot to wait for the season to end,and get rid of players of vfl standard .
This is the first time for a long time where Carlton has played four quarters of football two weeks in a row. We might at last be getting an endeavor culture in the team, where we always try rather than pick and choose when we go. If we can keep having a go over the last few weeks of the season, things might be at last on the improve. What we need to do is move from an endeavor culture to a winning culture.
I think that having a ruckman making a contest has helped us, I also think that Thomas is starting to make a significant impact on the team. He is another leader and an extravert, something we are lacking. If Gibbs, Murphy, Henderson Simpson and Thomas take become the on field leaders, then Judd will then be able to concentrate on being a magnificent footballer. Commentators keep saying we don't have young players coming through, but by my reckoning we have Menzel, Buckley, Graham, Johnson, Docherty, Cripps & Casboult.
Finally, Freo had close to their best side and they played at home, we were short Menzel, Buckley, Kreuzer, Robinson, Everett and Gartlett, who when fit and up and about, would probably be in our best side. If we can maintain the effort, recruit well and have a good pre-season. next year could be exciting.
Last nights game was classic Carlton since the Judd/Ratten/MM era
We have lost so many games by less than 3 goals over the years where we have had so many honorable losses.
That is, it seems to me now that close enough is good enough for Carlton - to me its unacceptable. We are still heading to the bottom of the ladder
This loss is just a reflection that the list has no good finishing players (goal kicks) and too many holes in defence as a start.
That said Judd is an absolute superstar, Gibbs now goes in hard and Murphy standing up for himself - all good signs, but still we are a long way off.
When the heat was on in the last I sense an inevitability now with this list that they cave in under pressure - skill errors, lack of composure and poise under pressure.
PS Would someone please do the analysis of games lost less than 18 points between 2008 to 2014?
PSS Do not point the finger at Wood - not his fault. I was concerned that no one encouraged him after the mistake and let him burn on the field....what was Jamison doing?
Last nights game was classic Carlton since the Judd/Ratten/MM era
We have lost so many games by less than 3 goals over the years where we have had so many honorable losses.
That is, it seems to me now that close enough is good enough for Carlton - to me its unacceptable. We are still heading to the bottom of the ladder
I don't think we will head to the bottom of the ladder, but your post has some significant merit.
I've played a number of sports to high levels and I've seen the type of behavior you detect in Carlton from many sports-people. It is like they have proved to themselves that they can compete at the highest level, against the best the sport has to offer, and they like participating at the high end. But at crunch time they are not prepared to do what they need to do to get across the line, to win the championship! That attitude makes a huge difference in the eventual outcome.
You can see a similar thing going on right now with Tiger Woods. He use to want to win every tournament that he played in, hit every shot perfect never make an error. Now Tiger's work ethic has gone, he is more worried about things that annoy him than doing the hard stuff that will improve or repair his game!
In AFL, it's the difference between a Hodge, Brown or Selwood and their output and attitude from game one, versus a player like Cotchin, Riewoldt or Pavlich. As they approach the end of their careers blokes like Cotchin, Riewoldt and Pavlich get super serious, but often it happens for them too late and the careers fritter away devoid of success!
Johnno Brown hated losing a single contest like there was no tomorrow, we have blokes who appear to give up like there is a "next time!"
Lets hope it's not too late for the likes of Gibbs and Murphy! ;)
I can see why Mick was slow to bring McLean on because as soon as he did the tide turned. Like someone has already posted Curnow, Carrazzo, Ellard and McLean can't play in the same side.
Last night game was a respectable loss,BUT like richo said on sen FOOLS GOLD and i totally agree .
Last night game was a respectable loss,BUT like richo said on sen FOOLS GOLD and i totally agree .
Agree with what?
I can see why Mick was slow to bring McLean on because as soon as he did the tide turned. Like someone has already posted Curnow, Carrazzo, Ellard and McLean can't play in the same side.
In fact I'd prefer if Carrazzo, Ellard, nor McLean played in any CFC side from now on. Curnow's OK - does a good job in a negating tagger/run with role, but will not actually win games for us. Just helps to stop the opposition from winning.
Last night game was a respectable loss,BUT like richo said on sen FOOLS GOLD and i totally agree .
Agree with what?
That we shouldn't read too much into the result? Freo weren't traveling well so it's a fair point if you see us as a finals side.
Carlton lose to bottom sides = we are crap, our coach is crap.
Carlton are competitive with top sides = they played crap, our coach is still crap.
Carlton lose to bottom sides = we are crap, our coach is crap.
Carlton are competitive with top sides = they played crap, our coach is still crap.
Bit paranoid there MBB. Not sure where the coach is mentioned or how what is being said goes against what you have been arguing - that our side is no good.
Carlton lose to bottom sides = we are crap, our coach is crap.
Carlton are competitive with top sides = they played crap, our coach is still crap.
In fairness this was something aimed at the previous coach. We always beat sides when they had an off day under Ratten according to the masses, and we won because the players were brilliant in spite of the coach back then. When we failed to win, the coach was at fault then too.
At least its consistent.
At the end of the day, I cant speak historically, nor am I going to state that the coach was at fault nor the players. All I can look at is that we squandered far too many opportunities to score, and snatched defeat from the Jaws of victory and it happened largely in the second quarter with our lack of scoreboard pressure. We won that quarter all over the ground except on the scoreboard, and Freo were really struggling to get out and score, yet they managed to get forward at one point and pinch a goal, whilst we didnt register a major even though we had quite a few scoring shots.
I have learned one thing this season. Even playing defensive football, we get scored against FAR too easily, and when we attack we dont score as often as we should. Yes, the stats will point to our scoring efficiency, but that tells me about how we defend more often than we attack rather than anything else, and usually because we are being beaten. Last night bucked the trend, and we still lost. Shanked kicks being the major reason.
I can see why Mick was slow to bring McLean on because as soon as he did the tide turned. Like someone has already posted Curnow, Carrazzo, Ellard and McLean can't play in the same side.
Johnson should've been left on and Ellard off ::) ::)
Malthouse coached out of his arse last night, he got the absolute maximum output and more out of those players. He cannot be blamed for the loss on a tactical basis, it was purely down to a lack of skill execution and decision-making at crucial times that cost us.
Last nights game was classic Carlton since the Judd/Ratten/MM era
We have lost so many games by less than 3 goals over the years where we have had so many honorable losses.
That is, it seems to me now that close enough is good enough for Carlton - to me its unacceptable. We are still heading to the bottom of the ladder
This loss is just a reflection that the list has no good finishing players (goal kicks) and too many holes in defence as a start.
That said Judd is an absolute superstar, Gibbs now goes in hard and Murphy standing up for himself - all good signs, but still we are a long way off.
When the heat was on in the last I sense an inevitability now with this list that they cave in under pressure - skill errors, lack of composure and poise under pressure.
PS Would someone please do the analysis of games lost less than 18 points between 2008 to 2014?
PSS Do not point the finger at Wood - not his fault. I was concerned that no one encouraged him after the mistake and let him burn on the field....what was Jamison doing?
We've pulled a heap out of our arse too from mile behind in that time. You learn when we are 5 goals in front we are never safe, but never out of it at 5 goals behind.
Let you check it.
http://afltables.com/afl/afl_index.html
Malthouse coached out of his arse last night, he got the absolute maximum output and more out of those players. He cannot be blamed for the loss on a tactical basis, it was purely down to a lack of skill execution and decision-making at crucial times that cost us.
And you would be spot on!
I can see why Mick was slow to bring McLean on because as soon as he did the tide turned. Like someone has already posted Curnow, Carrazzo, Ellard and McLean can't play in the same side.
In fact I'd prefer if Carrazzo, Ellard, nor McLean played in any CFC side from now on. Curnow's OK - does a good job in a negating tagger/run with role, but will not actually win games for us. Just helps to stop the opposition from winning.
Happy fo Carrazzo to be played, providing he's properly fit. He's a class act. Think we can move beyond the other two though
Carrazzo was enormous all game in stoppage situations, until some of the lesser lights can attack the ball like he does it's a no brainer IMO, he plays and probably continues next season.
I can see why Mick was slow to bring McLean on because as soon as he did the tide turned. Like someone has already posted Curnow, Carrazzo, Ellard and McLean can't play in the same side.
In fact I'd prefer if Carrazzo, Ellard, nor McLean played in any CFC side from now on. Curnow's OK - does a good job in a negating tagger/run with role, but will not actually win games for us. Just helps to stop the opposition from winning.
Happy fo Carrazzo to be played, providing he's properly fit. He's a class act. Think we can move beyond the other two though
Jim, sorry to keep piggy backing your posts, but I agree. Not sure why some are saying the jig is up for Carrots. Still very valuable for us IMO.
I can see why Mick was slow to bring McLean on because as soon as he did the tide turned. Like someone has already posted Curnow, Carrazzo, Ellard and McLean can't play in the same side.
Me ;D
I can see why Mick was slow to bring McLean on because as soon as he did the tide turned. Like someone has already posted Curnow, Carrazzo, Ellard and McLean can't play in the same side.
In fact I'd prefer if Carrazzo, Ellard, nor McLean played in any CFC side from now on. Curnow's OK - does a good job in a negating tagger/run with role, but will not actually win games for us. Just helps to stop the opposition from winning.
Happy fo Carrazzo to be played, providing he's properly fit. He's a class act. Think we can move beyond the other two though
Jim, when Carrots is on he looks classy for sure. But he's not always on and in recent years he's been lucky to play half the games for us. I just think it's time to find a younger fitter replacement that is all.
The top teams find a way. We have thrown everything at Geelong, Hawthorn now Freo. We have shut down many of their ball winners, tactically outpointed them, and spent large chunks of the games dominating them. But culturally the good teams are strong. They find a way, a culture of success and belief allows them too. It's where we need to get to.
If we don't re-sign Waite we've got a death wish.
Henderson goes OK but can't take a pack mark to save his life, Casboult can take a mark most days but can't do much else, Rowe and White can pinch hit forward against weak sides, Watson is a dud.
Waite is our only classy tall, he had Freo spooked last night.
If we don't re-sign Waite we've got a death wish.
Henderson goes OK but can't take a pack mark to save his life, Casboult can take a mark most days but can't do much else, Rowe and White can pinch hit forward against weak sides, Watson is a dud.
Waite is our only classy tall, he had Freo spooked last night.
We need to recruit two young key forwards and groom them to peak when Cripps, Graham, Holman etc do.....Waite is too inconsistent and does too many brain dead antics to be re-signed IMO......we should not be in panic to sign him to any long term deals.
I dont think he will stay for a one year deal and thats all I would offer him....we need to be brave like Geelong and move some senior players on.
@ellwood....agree ..
Another game we should have won and choked at the last moment. I expected us to lose by at least 5 goals, so the end result was far better than I expected. Not sure what I think about Warnock and Wood. Kreuzer has really cost us missing so much football time. Should not have let Jacobs walk so easy.
Should not have let Jacobs walk so easy.
In the field of Kreuzer, Warnock, Hampson and Jacobs. We trade Jacobs! :o
Only let off, K-mans injuries unforseen otherwise....
FMD we've been Adelaide's bitch over the journey.
Nelson for Gallagher
Massie for Eccles
Jacobs for picks (McCarthy and McInnes) spuds!!
Eddie for SFA as it turns out.
Jacobs couldn't get a game for us, everyone seems to forget he wasn't exactly setting the world on fire at Carlton. Also seem to forget he wanted out, it wasn't like we pushed him out of a moving car.
Jacobs couldn't get a game for us, everyone seems to forget he wasn't exactly setting the world on fire at Carlton. Also seem to forget he wanted out, it wasn't like we pushed him out of a moving car.
The only reason he couldn't get a game was because of the people he was behind. The club had a number1 pick invested in Kreuzer, had given an early second rounder and a big salary for Warnock and had high hopes for the athletic Hampson. Sauce was a pudgy rookie who had worked his arse off to become a very good ruckman.
The final against Sydney was the exclamation point in his good final year with us. Jacobs had become an AFL first ruck and most could see it, however, it seems, the club didn't want to acknowledge that in search of a ruck the best we had was sitting as a rookie.
The reason Jacobs wanted to go was he knew the two/three ahead of him would always be ahead of him. If we had chosen correctly as a Jacobs/Kruezer ruck combination going forward he'd still be with the club.
Jacobs couldn't get a game for us, everyone seems to forget he wasn't exactly setting the world on fire at Carlton. Also seem to forget he wanted out, it wasn't like we pushed him out of a moving car.
The only reason he couldn't get a game was because of the people he was behind. The club had a number1 pick invested in Kreuzer, had given an early second rounder and a big salary for Warnock and had high hopes for the athletic Hampson. Sauce was a pudgy rookie who had worked his arse off to become a very good ruckman.
The final against Sydney was the exclamation point in his good final year with us. Jacobs had become an AFL first ruck and most could see it, however, it seems, the club didn't want to acknowledge that in search of a ruck the best we had was sitting as a rookie.
The reason Jacobs wanted to go was he knew the two/three ahead of him would always be ahead of him. If we had chosen correctly as a Jacobs/Kruezer ruck combination going forward he'd still be with the club.
100% correct raydan subject to my view kruezer is a low B grader ruck at best..
Club has no stomach or courage to trade kruezer unless MM decides otherwise
Disagree a bit with you there MF, a healthy Kruezer is A grade. I remember two years ago when he killed Jolly in the ruck and around the ground, which basically lead to his demise.
If (and that's a big if) Kruezer comes back healthy and fit, teamed with Casboult as an improving second ruck/forward pocket we could have a dangerous ruck combination.
If Kreuzer cannot regain his form/fitness and Casboult doesn't improve again over the summer then we are left to swim in mediocrity for a while longer.
Jacobs couldn't get a game for us, everyone seems to forget he wasn't exactly setting the world on fire at Carlton. Also seem to forget he wanted out, it wasn't like we pushed him out of a moving car.
The only reason he couldn't get a game was because of the people he was behind. The club had a number1 pick invested in Kreuzer, had given an early second rounder and a big salary for Warnock and had high hopes for the athletic Hampson. Sauce was a pudgy rookie who had worked his arse off to become a very good ruckman.
The final against Sydney was the exclamation point in his good final year with us. Jacobs had become an AFL first ruck and most could see it, however, it seems, the club didn't want to acknowledge that in search of a ruck the best we had was sitting as a rookie.
The reason Jacobs wanted to go was he knew the two/three ahead of him would always be ahead of him. If we had chosen correctly as a Jacobs/Kruezer ruck combination going forward he'd still be with the club.
Completely disagree.
He was ordinary before he left. We had Kreuzer who is/was probably 3rd or 4th best at rucking, but at the time was our best around the ground and Hampson was getting a gig as a forward/ruck option. Warnock was either injured or struggling to get a game. For what it's worth, I'd have kept Jacobs and gotten rid of Warnock, but I don't see how the club can be crucified for "letting him go". Like I said before, he wasn't bashing the door down and certainly wasn't the best option as you've put it.
I reckon after the Sydney final he was the best option. That said in that same final Warnock went forward, marked twice and kicked two goals! We could be forgiven for thinking he would come good.
Isn't hindsight a wonderful thing. It gives us 20/20 vision and allows us to make correct theories. ;)
Kruezer has never been an A grader...
To say he will be A when fit is speculative....
He is starting to look like that former collingwood no 1 pick ruckman that went to gold coast now retired.....
Until we are honest with our assessment we will stay bottom 4
Josh Fraser.
Kruezer has never been an A grader...
To say he will be A when fit is speculative....
He is starting to look like that former collingwood no 1 pick ruckman that went to gold coast now retired.....
Until we are honest with our assessment we will stay bottom 4
You musn't have been watching when he was fit and firing last year he was the dominant ruck in the comp for a spell there - the question is whether his body will get right again and whether we will play him in that role.
Kruezer has never been an A grader...
To say he will be A when fit is speculative....
He is starting to look like that former collingwood no 1 pick ruckman that went to gold coast now retired.....
Until we are honest with our assessment we will stay bottom 4
You musn't have been watching when he was fit and firing last year he was the dominant ruck in the comp for a spell there - the question is whether his body will get right again and whether we will play him in that role.
Kruez has never been fit and firing - I watched him closely in the ruck - he has no leap at the contests last year...cannot continually palm the ball and always watches his rucking opponent ....cannot take a pack mark to save himself - he jumps vertically in the air with straight 180 degree extended arms vertically up...
Kruez has never been fit and firing - I watched him closely in the ruck - he has no leap at the contests last year...cannot continually palm the ball and always watches his rucking opponent ....cannot take a pack mark to save himself - he jumps vertically in the air with straight 180 degree extended arms vertically up...
Hmm, you know Kreuzer is the guy we kept not the guy who left for Nthmond? :D
SpecialK missed only two games in his first two years, last year he was our 6th ranked player off only 17 games.
His rating last year put him in the leagues top 10 ruckmen(Off only 17 games), and his career average rating is similar or ahead of many other so called "A Graders"!