Car'n the Blues!
F'ing rotten mongrel prick c0ck b4stard dog green maggot f@cks cost us that game in the second quarter with a string of arsehole decisions... They weren't even subtle about it. Stinking maggot pricks.
F'ing rotten mongrel prick c0ck b4stard dog green maggot f@cks cost us that game in the second quarter with a string of arsehole decisions... They weren't even subtle about it. Stinking maggot pricks.
Ably led by Maggot in Chief, Razor Ray himself.
Gee deags.... don't hold back mate. Just say what you're thinking ^-^
I agree though. Some real shocking decisions in both commission and omission. Bugger. Our boys were courageous but had it against them big time.
Jack Silvagni needs to spend some time with Sav...... It's becoming a habit and it cost us big time today.
Jack Silvagni needs to spend some time with Sav...... It's becoming a habit and it cost us big time today.
Yep, he's playing sore as well, but he obviously has a confidence issue.
SoJ looks like he doesn't want to take shots even when only 25 or 30 out!
We should be managing these kids, not flogging them!
League umpiring is in trouble. The play on at all costs instruction is turning australian rules into a rolling maul rugby with unlimited contact permitted provided the ball continues to spill free. Disgraceful umpring today. Players are regularly throwing the ball out of packs, plowing into backs and making illegal contact but it is play on regardless.
Injuries took their toll and we looked shot by the second half when we returned to bad old carlton, spraying the ball high and long inside 50 but from too far out. We are making progress in defence which looks increasingly settled but lack forward movement and pace through the middle.
Positives include williamson who played a fine game along with docherty. Cripps stood tall and gibbs played a four quarter game. Murphy's goal in the first quarter was goal of the year stuff.
Hope rowe and thomas are ok, but the knee buckling looked bad.
Umpiring cost us. They were cheating. We still have some spuds:
Nick graham. Awful.
Charlie Curnow- Big question mark
Cunningham- no.
Not sure about zac fisher either.
Gibbs. 34 touches, 6 tackles, had no effect on game.
Stupid game plan of keepings off. Yes it limits thrashings but we can't score.
Disappointing effort.
It's no good fans crying for the club to play the kids then complaining when they go missing.
SPS, Fisher, Curnow, Cunnigham as a group were almost invisible today. That overloads the rest of the team and you end up with a bloke like Murphy limping off with a groin injury!
Injuries and playing with pain is part of AFL football..we have a bye after the North game and probably a good time to give some of the sore and tired kids a break
SPS, Jack, Charlie look like they need a rest...our next game after the bye is against GWS sometime in mid June but a break for them would be good.
The only thing that disappointed me with this game is the team collectively didnt crack in with vigor all game like this team normally does... just slightly listless today probably tired kids.
Umpiring cost us. They were cheating. We still have some spuds:
Nick graham. Awful.
Charlie Curnow- Big question mark
Cunningham- no.
Not sure about zac fisher either.
Gibbs. 34 touches, 6 tackles, had no effect on game.
Stupid game plan of keepings off. Yes it limits thrashings but we can't score.
Disappointing effort.
Entitled to your opinion but just remember one thing, 31 games into a total rebuild. We were a rudderless shambles of a club. We are now showing we can be competitive and when it goes well, we can match it with anyone. Problem is, we are still growing and need to get maturity into the newbies so they can sustain effort for longer periods. Curnow played game number 12 or something? We have seen glimpses of what he can do. If he is doing what he is now in 2-3 years time still, fine, have a crack. Its a slow process, piece by piece, be patient, there are clubs in alot worse of a state than us.
Also, dont under estimate what it means to be 2 men down for such a long period of time. Rowe has been one of our more important players. Daisy runs hard and organises the kids out on the ground. The two rotations less hurt us more so than the shocking umpiring IMO.
And as for the Foxtel commentators, I know why I dont pay for a full Foxtel subscription. Unlistenable. (if that's not a word I just made one up).
The only thing that disappointed me with this game is the team collectively didnt crack in with vigor all game like this team normally does... just slightly listless today probably tired kids.
I didnt see every minute of the game but I saw plenty cracking in.
SPS, Jack, Charlie look like they need a rest...
Sure do. After an interstate trip in the wet, rotate them out next week which gives them 2 weeks off and bring in a couple who we have in the wings for insurance. Remember SPS had no preseason and hasn't missed a game. Needs a decent break.
Entitled to your opinion but just remember one thing, 31 games into a total rebuild. We were a rudderless shambles of a club. We are now showing we can be competitive and when it goes well, we can match it with anyone. Problem is, we are still growing and need to get maturity into the newbies so they can sustain effort for longer periods. Curnow played game number 12 or something? We have seen glimpses of what he can do. If he is doing what he is now in 2-3 years time still, fine, have a crack. Its a slow process, piece by piece, be patient, there are clubs in alot worse of a state than us.
You know who that guy is? Only comes on when we lose which means we'll see less and less of him as the years go by. :)
Entitled to your opinion but just remember one thing, 31 games into a total rebuild. We were a rudderless shambles of a club. We are now showing we can be competitive and when it goes well, we can match it with anyone. Problem is, we are still growing and need to get maturity into the newbies so they can sustain effort for longer periods. Curnow played game number 12 or something? We have seen glimpses of what he can do. If he is doing what he is now in 2-3 years time still, fine, have a crack. Its a slow process, piece by piece, be patient, there are clubs in alot worse of a state than us.
You've nailed it Cic.
People seem to forget about the rebuild.
Forget the umpires, it was our blokes not being good enough today that were responsible for the flogging.
It is all part of what we have to go through climbing the ladder.. we'll get plenty more results like this in the next 2-3 years.
It's good to get games into the young blokes, but don't expect them to get great results for a while yet.
The improvement is showing, but it is going to be a long, slow process.
Finals around 2020 would be a good result.
I actually thought they did quite well. There was obviously an imbalance in the last quarter as we couldn't mark it in our F50 at all which was frustrating.
I am not completely disappointed at all, it was wet, ridiculously so at some points (altho they seemed to be handling a dry ball and we a wet ball?!) and of course the umpiring - but you will always get that interstate, always. We missed some easy shots in the first that would've put us way up - that's what we should Focus on.
Never mind, nice to watch Williamson thought he was great. The few that were caught were disappointing but we'll get there ;D
Too many errors cost us yet again.
Once we went 2 men down early in the 3rd term, we were never going to win in those sorts of conditions.
Confused as to why Murph was being booed by some fans.
Get Sav to put some time into Jack.
Plowman cost us with some crucial errors.
SPS, Charlie, and a couple other kids were virtually invisible
Graham reminded me why I didnt see him in our future plans.
Michael Walters' over celebrating really gave me the s**ts.
The scoreboard flattered Freo in the end.
it was our blokes not being good enough today that were responsible for the flogging.
Flogging is a bit harsh. I think 'spirited effort against the odds' would be more accurate.
A lot of similarities to the Saints game - the old firm played really well and the backline made it hard to score. But the kids in the midfield and forward line made very limited contributions which means we just can't score enough to trouble decent sides.
We made 2 tackles in our forward 50 for the game!! The young guys can't hit the scoreboard and the ball bounces straight back out most of the time it came in. If you can't put scoreboard pressure on then you are going to lose most games, and we have not made any improvement in this area and if anything you could mount an argument based on the stats that we are actually going backwards. We have scored 70 less points than Brisbane!!
Cas and Wright have been negated in the last 2 weeks and we have no Plan B to score. I think they need to keep mixing up - give Jones a crack to change the setup, or give KJ 3 weeks to save his career.
We are definitely brave and up for the fight, and we were down on rotations, but we just have too many guys who can't assert themselves over 4 quarters. And because we have no forward line we don't get reward for effort and butcher way too many scoring opportunities that we need to convert if we are going to become a good team.
Entitled to your opinion but just remember one thing, 31 games into a total rebuild. We were a rudderless shambles of a club. We are now showing we can be competitive and when it goes well, we can match it with anyone. Problem is, we are still growing and need to get maturity into the newbies so they can sustain effort for longer periods. Curnow played game number 12 or something? We have seen glimpses of what he can do. If he is doing what he is now in 2-3 years time still, fine, have a crack. Its a slow process, piece by piece, be patient, there are clubs in alot worse of a state than us.
Also, dont under estimate what it means to be 2 men down for such a long period of time. Rowe has been one of our more important players. Daisy runs hard and organises the kids out on the ground. The two rotations less hurt us more so than the shocking umpiring IMO.
And as for the Foxtel commentators, I know why I dont pay for a full Foxtel subscription. Unlistenable. (if that's not a word I just made one up).
Here here.
You've got to remember the limited base the kids are functioning on. You hear it endlessly how important PS is. The only factor more important is another PS. No doubt the kids like Samo and Charlie need to be well managed following injury and serious ill health. We need also to be mindful of the PS limitations of Crippa and young Marchbank. These young guys as well as Plowman for example, will take time and we need to be patient. They'll serve us well if we can manage them well.
Fortunately, our recruiters are well aware of the limits of youth (body - mind). I'm expecting we'll rely on the mature recruits more as the season takes it's toll. Right now the club's doing what it set out to do. Get games into the young ones. I think we're going OK to date. Most "experts" had us winning 1-2 games and we've snatched 3 already.
Go Blues
Wasn't a flogging.
We were still in the game until the last 10 mins.
Hard to run out a game well when you've been playing in the slog with 2 less players for half the game.
Stupid game plan of keepings off. Yes it limits thrashings but we can't score.
We play keepings off BECAUSE we can't score.....and because its a simple game plan that the abundance of kids we have playing can actually get their heads around.
Been saying forever and a day that this year we couldn't expect much of a rise up the ladder for the simple fact we didn't address our forwardline/ability to kick goals in the off-season. Until we do (next offseason i hope) we can expect more of the same more often than not.
You know who that guy is? Only comes on when we lose which means we'll see less and less of him as the years go by. :)
"You took the words right out of my mouth". Luckily I don't remember the second part of that songline :P
We showed in the first Qtr we have the talent & the direction, lack of numbers , injuries hurt us in the second half. Credible performance, but the forward half needs work. SOJ missing gettable early goals cost us & so we didn't capitalise on our dominance . Next week will be an interesting line up Rowe main stay in out defence won't be there for a while, so we will be re tooling our line up.
Injuries took their toll and we looked shot by the second half when we returned to bad old carlton, spraying the ball high and long inside 50 but from too far out. We are making progress in defence which looks increasingly settled but lack forward movement and pace through the middle.
...
Hope rowe and thomas are ok, but the knee buckling looked bad.
With a young side, in the wet, 2 men down, over in the west, we were ALWAYS going to struggle to run out the game.
re Rowe, i think they said everything else BUT this in the coverage, but IMO, he's done his PCL aka Ruckmans injury.
That usually occurs when the lower leg gets pushed backwards at the knee....as in ruckmen bumping knees at centre bounces.
If that is the case, its better than ACL (12 months) and means he could be back sometimes this season.
Hopefully Jones' injury from the VFL isn't too bad as he should get a call up based on his efforts of late.
Yep, he's playing sore as well, but he obviously has a confidence issue.
SoJ looks like he doesn't want to take shots even when only 25 or 30 out!
We should be managing these kids, not flogging them!
Kicking like Casboult, poor ball drop....Cunningham is another who drops the ball differently and has trouble kicking in a hurry.....Sav could be a fulltime employee soon.
Thankfully we have Williamson who can be used to demonstrate how it should be done....
Re Rowe's injury
Comments I heard suggested it was a medial ligament.
We'll know tomorrow. He's been in top form for the last year and a half. What a blow for us all. Here's hoping it's on the lesser anyways.
All the best to Sam for a speedy recovery. We know he'll manage his rehabilitation with 100% commitment.
"You took the words right out of my mouth". Luckily I don't remember the second part of that songline :P
Unfortunately I do, might be a troubled sleep coming up. ;D
You know who that guy is? Only comes on when we lose which means we'll see less and less of him as the years go by. :)
Yep, irrelevant shill who is best ignored. This was a tough one for us and a character building experience. Hell we weren't smashed as we once would have been.
Makes me laugh how so many posters love to comment as soon as a player in particular a younger player looks sore, tired or hurt.
Then usually after a loss these posters accuse the club of mis treating these players by insisting we are playing them when they are injured or not resting when they should be rested.
Do we not trust in the conditioning 'professional' the club employs for this very role?
AFL is a tough sport. Players particularly young ones will be sore tired and hurt. Get used to it. Doesn't mean we are destroying their careers....doesn't mean we are not developing them the best way.
Have faith guys. We are on the right track.
Unfortunately I do, might be a troubled sleep coming up. ;D
;D
Fortunately, our relations are virtual.
Rest easy...
F'ing rotten mongrel prick c0ck b4stard dog green maggot f@cks cost us that game in the second quarter with a string of arsehole decisions... They weren't even subtle about it. Stinking maggot pricks.
Love it.
Happens more often than not though.
BB should speak up. >:(
I know it's not the main reason why we lost though but they also shouldn't be part of the reason
im happy how we are progressing
especially the backline
Young guys need games and will get some collective inconsistency.
Need a crumbing forward pocket thief opportunist type.
and a nuggety in and under on baller.
the twos are going ok, which means they're developing and will create natural pressure for spots.
The fear of hardcore blow outs are gone...for once in a long time
for periods in 3-4 games (we lost) i thought we were a chance of winning. That gives me some hope at this early stage.
Umpiring cost us. They were cheating. We still have some spuds:
Nick graham. Awful.
Charlie Curnow- Big question mark
Cunningham- no.
Not sure about zac fisher either.
Gibbs. 34 touches, 6 tackles, had no effect on game.
Stupid game plan of keepings off. Yes it limits thrashings but we can't score.
Disappointing effort.
Gibbs disposal into our forward 50 was woeful...missed targets often after been given the ball and got me totally frustrated...was think of Spanner and his reaction to Gibbs work ;)
Fisher ...I like, cool head under pressure but is still a small kid and needs more games to mature...
Cunningham....wasnt great but not prepared to give him away yet, kicking isnt great and i think is more a dry weather player where he can cover the ground better...
SPS was also quiet and it wasnt a day for touch players apart from Walters who kicked three goals and broke the game open...
Charlie Curnow...hard job being used as a key forward type when our delivery is so bad, we just bombed the ball and Johnson marked all our miskicks....not sure we have found Charlie a position yet which doesnt help his development...
Yep keepings off and then the long bomb forward to no one doesnt win many games...Freo got us on the rebound a couple of times and kicked easy goals and thats where the game was won, we matched them in most areas but probably let their class players have too much ball...Cripps with only 21 possies showed how tough Freo are around the middle of the ground.
Also if Wright doesnt contribute on the scoreboard we struggle and teams are putting more time into him...
There were two times that a Freo player played on from a mark or free kick, I think it was Walter both times?, that I'm not too sure about.
One time was a free I think against maybe Doc and he ran off the mark putting the umpire between himself and our defender. I don't think he would have been tackled but surely you can't use the ump for a block?
The other one was maybe a mark and the freo player was at the bottom of the pack but as soon as the other players got up he just ran off. Didnt take the ball back behind the mark.
Both times ended in goals to freo. Both in the third qtr I think.
"You took the words right out of my mouth". Luckily I don't remember the second part of that songline :P
I'm a realist. I'm not 'that guy' who bags the club just for the sake of it. I'm not sure we were in a shambles under Malthouse anyway. Check the statistics. Last time I looked, we made finals under him, then won about 6 games? might have been 9 actually. Yes we had one bad season under him, but about 5 of our senior players including Murph and Kreuzer didn't play. I don't think we were any worse. In fact we got rid of some of his recruits which we shouldn't have. E.g Holman and that 18 year old that only got 1 game. Can't remember his name. Malthouse was a scapegoat. Now we are trying to play an outdated Hawks gameplan which relies on keeping possession and uncontested marks. They key now is to score through the corridor.
We were clearly beaten on the scoreboard in the 3rd, but to be honest I was watching the game really impressed. I liked the endeavor shown as well as the tackling, we got burnt on a few turnovers and that is what cost us.
The only think I didn't like was our delivery into the forward 50. Johnson was marking everything, yet we kept kicking long. We needed to lower our sights and also ensure some space in there, but we will learn from that.
Two weeks in a row we had a good reason to be severely dealt with and 2 weeks in a row we have performed okay. Whilst I would prefer we had even more kids being blooded, I am really happy with the way we are playing, when you consider the cattle we have on the park and more importantly, the level of experience of that cattle.
More of the same and I will finish the season reasonable happy
Cunningham....wasnt great but not prepared to give him away yet, kicking isnt great and i think is more a dry weather player where he can cover the ground better...
Charlie Curnow...hard job being used as a key forward type when our delivery is so bad, we just bombed the ball and Johnson marked all our miskicks....not sure we have found Charlie a position yet which doesnt help his development...
I was content with Cunningham's effort - looked better than he has looked in the VFL
CCurnow suffered with Weitering playing in defence, which meant that Charlie was matched up by a better opponent.
I was content with Cunningham's effort - looked better than he has looked in the VFL
CCurnow suffered with Weitering playing in defence, which meant that Charlie was matched up by a better opponent.
Agree. We are expecting a lot to have a kid with less then 15 games to play the 2nd key forward role.
Thought Weitering was one of our better players down back but our forward structure is disfunctional and unlikely unless wright has a day out to kick a winning score.
Like how young fisher is coming along -EB picked it early but this kid has the smarts. Moves to the right places and I'm comfortable when he has the ball. Cunningham was far from our worse - reckon we need to give him a run of mutilple games.
Graham on the other hand is just a handy 2nds player. I've seen enough of him to conclude he doesn't have any of the necessary skills to have an impact at the top level. Disappointing because we are crying out for more players that can go through the midfield but reckon we need to stick with Fisher and Cunningham and maybe give smedts a decent run at.
Agree. We are expecting a lot to have a kid with less then 15 games to play the 2nd key forward role.
So C.Curnow gets a pass because 15 games isn't much for a kid to base a KPF role on, yet at the start of the season a lot of posters on here wanted Weitering to hold down the KPF role after only 20 games. Do five extra games make that much difference?
Seems a bit biased, what is OK for one is not OK for the other!
So C.Curnow gets a pass because 15 games isn't much for a kid to base a KPF role on, yet at the start of the season a lot of posters on here wanted Weitering to hold down the KPF role after only 20 games. Do five extra games make that much difference?
Seems a bit biased, what is OK for one is not OK for the other!
I understand your point but not all kids coming into the system can do what others can. Don't have to look far, McKay and Weitering both KP players were taken in the same draft!
We have a very young forward structure, and while I might be splitting hairs a little, Weitering is more capable and ready then Charlie to take a key forward post IMO at this early stage. His young body is more developed has played double what Charlie has and has had an extra pre season. Early in a players career that's massive difference.
He might still get banged up at times so he will need to be carefully managed but my point was with him there Charlie and even SOJ drop down the order of what defenders go to them, which helps them and in turn the team considerably.
I'm enjoying C Curnow running in the midfield at the moment. I wouldn't mind seeing him stay there.
Reading that question marks around some of our kids is laughable - spuds was even used for Charlie Curnow, Fisher and Cuningham. Haha...what a joke!
These kids ARE the future. They need the AFL body, maturity and development so give them some time and space for crying out loud!
We have plenty of spuds on our list, and these boys mentioned among other good kids, are not them!
Reading that question marks around some of our kids is laughable - spuds was even used for Charlie Curnow, Fisher and Cuningham. Haha...what a joke!
These kids ARE the future. They need the AFL body, maturity and development so give them some time and space for crying out loud!
We have plenty of spuds on our list, and these boys mentioned among other good kids, are not them!
Very well said!
I was content with Cunningham's effort - looked better than he has looked in the VFL
CCurnow suffered with Weitering playing in defence, which meant that Charlie was matched up by a better opponent.
Totally agree. Pleasantly surprised with Cuningham. I thought his work in tight early was sure and effective - good hands; good decisions. He faded but had plenty of mates.
It's really hard to make too many judgements on individuals in that game.
The TV filters out the actual extreme nature of the weather and what looks like a lot of rain can be torrential. Add to that the wind which seemed to be all over the place. (Someone who was at the game could give us a better idea)
Sure both sides had to cope with it... but mature bodies probably can cope a bit better, especially when we were down two men in the rotations and others coming off at regular intervals with niggles.
We dominated them early and were still a chance well into the last quarter...although it was kind of obvious we were just hanging on.
The effort seemed to still be there. It just became too much to resist
Some people have been bagging Graham....
The mid field, Kreuzer included, was collectively terrible after quarter time. Kreuzer simply stopped playing the ball and was too focused on big Sandi.... the set ups were terrible given Sandi was having a party in there.
Next time we play Freo, I'd play Korchek if we can....Kreuzer gets overwhelmed by the size disparity.
I thought Gibbs again was putrid. Shocking, lazy disposal and he squibbed on one marking contest which would have seen a shot on goal 40 out.
Would trade him in a heart beat for a good deal.
Plenty of numbers but as s senior, highly skilled player....very, very lazy.
Graham, other than yesterday, has been entirely serviceable.
Our game plan is simply too, too slow. Gives us big stats but stops us scoring. Bolts needs to dish up better.... but that said if you can't win or even touch the ball in the centre no chance in a game....
SPS has gone missing since his break out game. Need to find a role for him in which he can get him involved or put him in the 2s to get some hand on leather time....
I thought our intensity was way off after quarter time - it reminded me of days gone by when we would play 20 minutes of good footy then think the job was done.....
That said, injuries didn't help but at least Jones will now get a well deserved run.
Time to bring back Smedts and Palmer imo. Rest a few of the kids on a rotation.
Any wtf is happening with SoJ's kicking - looks more spooked than Levi did at his worst!
Totally agree. Pleasantly surprised with Cuningham. I thought his work in tight early was sure and effective - good hands; good decisions. He faded but had plenty of mates.
He definitely looks the part physically and has some dash. Needs to be given more games....haven't seen the stats but did a lot more than SPS you'd think.....
Fly, you've summed up Gibbs to a tee.
Fly, you've summed up Gibbs to a tee.
Gibbs should be in our best 3 or 4 every week. He should be influencing matches in the vein of a Selwood or a Hodge of yesteryear (i don't mean the rough stuff)
If he was doing that we'd be in the 8 I dare say, or close to....
I think he's been in the top 6 maybe once or twice all year. Do the deal with the Crows and get a couple of young blokes in who give a f..... Bryce doesn't, arguably never has....
It cracks me up a bit to read some of the reactions.
To hear the slow play hurt us, when it effectively was shelved after the first quarter for a more run and gun style because Freo negated the short kick by manning up and the disposal efficiency dropped off.
The other thing that really hurt was losing Rowe. Killed our structure. Docherty started playing his role in the aerial contests, meaning we had one less competent rebounder once the ball hit the deck bringing the game back to Freo.
Losing Thomas workrate cannot be underestimated either as he is a cool head under pressure when others tend to go missing i.e. his checkside kick goal in the first quarter.
We are still a young developing output, that relies heavily on older bodies and heads to compete, and the youngsters do well when there is less pressure on them to perform. It was a dirty day, but its no insult to get beaten by a mature side, on their own paddock, whom the umpires gave a bit of an armchair ride from quarter time to three quarter time.
Gibbs, Murphy, Simpson, Docherty and Kreuzer are drawing a lot of criticism, but they were some of our better players. Ed Curnow's workrate was massive.
If we had regained our composure and played that keeping off style a bit more we would have absolutely won. I think our changing structure meant we had to change tact to something less suitable to our teams current skillset and that was ultimately the difference between winning and losing besides 5 marks inside 50 to the umpires.
Gibbs should be in our best 3 or 4 every week.
He usually is, and was again yesterday.
He should be influencing matches in the vein of a Selwood or a Hodge of yesteryear (i don't mean the rough stuff)
He's not as good as Hodge or Sellwood, it makes no difference that he was pick one.
He's a very good footballer but he's not in the elite bracket.
Time to give plowman reality check and should be dropped and 2 can we change our game plan Bolton this slow ,long kicking into our fwd lins is so predictable to the oppostion.
He definitely looks the part physically and has some dash. Needs to be given more games....haven't seen the stats but did a lot more than SPS you'd think.....
Just goes to show how wrong you can be! ;D
Sam Petrevski-Seton 5 3 8 3 0 10 0 1 0 0 0 67
David Cuningham 6 7 13 1 0 5 2 2 0 0 0 51Might have the size and shape, but played more like a real Lucas!
I don't want anymore Lucas types, ever!
Just goes to show how wrong you can be! ;D
Sam Petrevski-Seton 5 3 8 3 0 10 0 1 0 0 0 67
David Cuningham 6 7 13 1 0 5 2 2 0 0 0 51
Might have the size and shape, but played more like a real Lucas!
I don't want anymore Lucas types, ever!
Are you suggesting Cuningham is a Lucas type?
You must be watching a different sport.
He usually is, and was again yesterday.
He's not as good as Hodge or Sellwood, it makes no difference that he was pick one.
He's a very good footballer but he's not in the elite bracket.
Well the Jim Park voting thus far in 2017 would counter your pitch rather decisively I'd say.....don't judge him by numbers just him by whether he influences a game. Most days he does not.
He could be every bit as god as Selwood or Hodge (of old) if he put in harder....
Well the Jim Park voting thus far in 2017 would counter your pitch rather decisively I'd say.....don't judge him by numbers just him by whether he influences a game. Most days he does not.
He could be every bit as god as Selwood or Hodge (of old) if he put in harder....
I'm with you on Gibbs....lazy disposal and a lot of his possies are wasted and do no damage, our other players give him the footy because he is meant to have elite disposal but he is too inconsistent with his kicking....felt sorry for Casboult with balls landing at his feet or weighted wrongly so he was out of position all the time...
Our spoiling efforts and smothering attempts were pathetic. Plowman the chief culprit. He and others barely made contact with the ball in pack situations, a cardinal sin which left us exposed on many occasions.
Freo had too many nippy forwards who left us flat footed. Too many Blues defenders flying in the same pack played into Freo's rovers hands. It wasn't smart by us.
One can only hope Sheahan or Byrne can inject some pace out of the backline. Could Cunningham or Pickett play that role ?
Well the Jim Park voting thus far in 2017 would counter your pitch rather decisively I'd say.....don't judge him by numbers just him by whether he influences a game. Most days he does not.
He could be every bit as god as Selwood or Hodge (of old) if he put in harder....
There's a bias against Gibbs among Carlton supporters because he was taken at pick one and it was assumed that he would be an elite player.
It didn't work out that way and there's a general sense of disappointment, Watts, Fraser and others have suffered the same fate at the hands of the supporters of their clubs.
He puts in as hard as anyone else in my opinion, but he'll never be a Sellwood or Hodge.
Now we are trying to play an outdated Hawks gameplan which relies on keeping possession and uncontested marks. They key now is to score through the corridor.
That is the key to winning games in May. Not sure how it holds up in Finals or against top sides. Happy for the aints, frockers and port to win when they are running in front of the footy, through the corridor, against bottom sides...... not going to get you far when the whips are cracking in the big games
Some people have been bagging Graham....
The mid field, Kreuzer included, was collectively terrible after quarter time. Kreuzer simply stopped playing the ball and was too focused on big Sandi.... the set ups were terrible given Sandi was having a party in there.
Next time we play Freo, I'd play Korchek if we can....Kreuzer gets overwhelmed by the size disparity.
I thought Gibbs again was putrid. Shocking, lazy disposal and he squibbed on one marking contest which would have seen a shot on goal 40 out.
Would trade him in a heart beat for a good deal.
Plenty of numbers but as s senior, highly skilled player....very, very lazy.
Graham, other than yesterday, has been entirely serviceable.
Our game plan is simply too, too slow. Gives us big stats but stops us scoring. Bolts needs to dish up better.... but that said if you can't win or even touch the ball in the centre no chance in a game....
SPS has gone missing since his break out game. Need to find a role for him in which he can get him involved or put him in the 2s to get some hand on leather time....
I thought our intensity was way off after quarter time - it reminded me of days gone by when we would play 20 minutes of good footy then think the job was done.....
That said, injuries didn't help but at least Jones will now get a well deserved run.
Time to bring back Smedts and Palmer imo. Rest a few of the kids on a rotation.
Any wtf is happening with SoJ's kicking - looks more spooked than Levi did at his worst!
Very good post IMO. With the exception of your comments on Graham. I think he's VFL level.
Reading that question marks around some of our kids is laughable - spuds was even used for Charlie Curnow, Fisher and Cuningham. Haha...what a joke!
These kids ARE the future. They need the AFL body, maturity and development so give them some time and space for crying out loud!
We have plenty of spuds on our list, and these boys mentioned among other good kids, are not them!
x2
Once Lyon woke up and figured out he needed to stop our "everything old is new again" short kicking style, the tide was always going to turn. Obviously other factors (e.g injury) were at play.
I'll be curious to see what happens in coming weeks when opposition teams adopt the same tactics. That style of play requires almost innate understanding between team mates, very precise skills, and good speed over the first 10-20 m to get some separation from your opponent. Once the other team figures out we play this way, they will always go man on man.
Once Lyon woke up and figured out he needed to stop our "everything old is new again" short kicking style, the tide was always going to turn. Obviously other factors (e.g injury) were at play.
I'll be curious to see what happens in coming weeks when opposition teams adopt the same tactics. That style of play requires almost innate understanding between team mates, very precise skills, and good speed over the first 10-20 m to get some separation from your opponent. Once the other team figures out we play this way, they will always go man on man.
Too add to that, it also appears that it works quite well when moving the ball from defence thru to the centre of the ground, but we really struggled after quarter time to move the ball forward of centre. Opposition sides have plenty of time to man up and flood back, so finding a target is almost impossible. So we bomb it in, and the opposition [Johnson yesterday] just take intercept marks.
You still need fast link players who can carry the ball through the midfield to put the backmen out of position and make this plan work, otherwise we will continue to score 10 goals at best per week like we have for 3 years and we will win 5-6 games at best. We are struggling to fill these roles at the moment, as the kids don't have the tank to play that role consistently.
I am optimistic about the ability of the last 2 draft crops, but until we can turn at least one into a genuine, consistent goal kicking forward threat, and we trade in at least 1 established forward, we will keep bouncing along the bottom like we have for 3.5 years.
Umpiring cost us. They were cheating. We still have some spuds:
Nick graham. Awful.
Charlie Curnow- Big question mark
Cunningham- no.
Not sure about zac fisher either.
Gibbs. 34 touches, 6 tackles, had no effect on game.
Stupid game plan of keepings off. Yes it limits thrashings but we can't score.
Disappointing effort.
Is this a troll account?
It can't be serious surely? ;D
The major problem against Freo ,we had 2 players injured ,our forward line apart from Casboult was young and not strong enough.We need more strong bodies around the ball .Apart From Cripps there is noone.
Maybe Kerridge should have played ,and maybe Jones should have played .Hindsight is a wonderful thing.We need time for their bodies to develop,it takes a few pre seasons.I can see a light at the end of the tunnel
Too add to that, it also appears that it works quite well when moving the ball from defence thru to the centre of the ground, but we really struggled after quarter time to move the ball forward of centre. Opposition sides have plenty of time to man up and flood back, so finding a target is almost impossible. So we bomb it in, and the opposition [Johnson yesterday] just take intercept marks.
You still need fast link players who can carry the ball through the midfield to put the backmen out of position and make this plan work, otherwise we will continue to score 10 goals at best per week like we have for 3 years and we will win 5-6 games at best. We are struggling to fill these roles at the moment, as the kids don't have the tank to play that role consistently.
I am optimistic about the ability of the last 2 draft crops, but until we can turn at least one into a genuine, consistent goal kicking forward threat, and we trade in at least 1 established forward, we will keep bouncing along the bottom like we have for 3.5 years.
Yes, Nick Riewoldt was a guest commentator on one of the televised games this weekend, and mentioned that all teams these days are spending lots of time at training practicing the fast break, chain-of-handballs from a stoppage / congested area. I would assume because players are so fit and well drilled these days that catching them off guard or on the fast break gives the best chance of scoring.
Every game plan / style has its strengths and weaknesses, and with the right players and right coaching, they can all be made to work and be successful. Every team needs to be able to play a few different ways, and needs to be able to change things up to suit the circumstances.
Whatever "educational" motivation might be behind Bolton's ideas, my concern is that he coaches this way because that's what he feels comfortable with and that's what he learned from Clarko, and that it's not the best way going forward. I hope I'm wrong, but I do get worried sometimes that we will be left behind.
Our only problem is that we don't have a strong enough front half, even yesterday it wasn't getting the ball into our forward line which was the problem, it was keeping it there and scoring while we had it.
Until such time as we get some decent forwards the only way we'll win games is by making them low scoring battles of attrition.
Silvagni and Curnow might measure up but we'll need more than those two and they're still a couple of years away, Weitering isn't a forward.
Rowe gone for the season by the way.
Yes, Nick Riewoldt was a guest commentator on one of the televised games this weekend, and mentioned that all teams these days are spending lots of time at training practicing the fast break, chain-of-handballs from a stoppage / congested area. I would assume because players are so fit and well drilled these days that catching them off guard or on the fast break gives the best chance of scoring.
Every game plan / style has its strengths and weaknesses, and with the right players and right coaching, they can all be made to work and be successful. Every team needs to be able to play a few different ways, and needs to be able to change things up to suit the circumstances.
Whatever "educational" motivation might be behind Bolton's ideas, my concern is that he coaches this way because that's what he feels comfortable with and that's what he learned from Clarko, and that it's not the best way going forward. I hope I'm wrong, but I do get worried sometimes that we will be left behind.
It may be what he's used to Paul but I don't think we need worry.
I reckon that long term we will be a kicking and carrying side and we're just waiting for some better ball users .
Right now it's a brand that helps us get used to our long term plan and reduces the possibility of smashings.
Honestly, I reckon we'd have gone close to winning without the rain coming so heavily.
It's really hard to make too many judgements on individuals in that game.
The TV filters out the actual extreme nature of the weather and what looks like a lot of rain can be torrential. Add to that the wind which seemed to be all over the place. (Someone who was at the game could give us a better idea)
Sure both sides had to cope with it... but mature bodies probably can cope a bit better, especially when we were down two men in the rotations and others coming off at regular intervals with niggles.
We dominated them early and were still a chance well into the last quarter...although it was kind of obvious we were just hanging on.
The effort seemed to still be there. It just became too much to resist
It was an Odd day indeed. It started sunny then at various times it Bucketed down, seriously heavy, before stopping again and the wind drying the conditions out quickly. This cycle happened 3-4 times throughout the day and by the end, early in the last term, there was actual thunder and lightning.
I was undercover, but the flags at the ground, were flying opposite to the End we were kicking to in the first term. We were essentially into the wind. Bascially Daisy's goal, it was blowing directly into his face.
You could see at ground level, the ball would hold up in the air, and the shots at goal we took on 50 never looked like making the distance. You could also tell, McCarthy and Walters kicked long goals from the other side of the ground, outside 50 easily.
It was very odd the end into the wind was the scoring end for the majority of the day, except in the third where Dockers took control. They certainly read the ball better off the boot, and Johnson had a filed day, reading the drop of the ball. Levi doesnt work hard enough and our forward setup is awful. Charlie, Levi, Jack all standing in the square waiting for a long bomb... dumb.
Bugger. Rowe out for the season.
http://www.afl.com.au/news/2017-05-22/blue-blow-sam-rowes-season-over-after-acl-tear
It was an Odd day indeed. It started sunny then at various times it Bucketed down, seriously heavy, before stopping again and the wind drying the conditions out quickly. This cycle happened 3-4 times throughout the day and by the end, early in the last term, there was actual thunder and lightning.
I was undercover, but the flags at the ground, were flying opposite to the End we were kicking to in the first term. We were essentially into the wind. Bascially Daisy's goal, it was blowing directly into his face.
You could see at ground level, the ball would hold up in the air, and the shots at goal we took on 50 never looked like making the distance. You could also tell, McCarthy and Walters kicked long goals from the other side of the ground, outside 50 easily.
It was very odd the end into the wind was the scoring end for the majority of the day, except in the third where Dockers took control. They certainly read the ball better off the boot, and Johnson had a filed day, reading the drop of the ball. Levi doesnt work hard enough and our forward setup is awful. Charlie, Levi, Jack all standing in the square waiting for a long bomb... dumb.
Dont think it was the weather...Freo's best 4 players had the ball around 30 times each, thats why we lost IMO and being caught on the rebound for some easy goals.....Neale had it 37 times...you wont win many games when the opposing teams best players have so much ball....
It may be what he's used to Paul but I don't think we need worry.
I reckon that long term we will be a kicking and carrying side and we're just waiting for some better ball users .
Right now it's a brand that helps us get used to our long term plan and reduces the possibility of smashings.
Honestly, I reckon we'd have gone close to winning without the rain coming so heavily.
I suppose so. Freo may not be world beaters, but they have developed into a gutsy, scrapping team. We are not exactly formidable opposition, but their ability to fight back and graft out some close victories would have to instill some kind of confidence.
I understand where Bolts is coming from to a degree - limiting the blow outs limits the "damage" to the players, but gives less opportunities to win, versus win at all costs by playing the in vogue game style, which may give more chances of victory, but also more spankings. He does at least have a plan that he's sticking to. But i still worry. Losing culture is hard to break. The longer we lose more than we win, the longer it takes to get up off the canvas. I'm not sure that the movement up the ladder is linear and simplistic. There's still enormous amounts of work to do, and lots of decisions that need we need to get right. And some luck, and the umps, and.............
One could also use the argument that playing like this betrays the coach's lack of confidence in his players, which may hurt them than it helps. Lots of ifs, buts and maybes.
There's still enormous amounts of work to do, and lots of decisions that need we need to get right. And some luck, and the umps, and.............
It's certainly not a given that we'll be competitive in finals in two or three years.
I'm happy that we are finally taking the right approach but due to past mistakes we are coming from further back than other teams in the past who have risen from the depths.
All we can do is hope that we get the draft and trades right for at least the next two years, if we do we'll be going somewhere.
Dont think it was the weather...Freo's best 4 players had the ball around 30 times each, thats why we lost IMO and being caught on the rebound for some easy goals.....Neale had it 37 times...you wont win many games when the opposing teams best players have so much ball....
Definitely not.
Our Centre Set ups were awful and it started with our Leaders. Gibbs, Murph and Cripps in the middle of the ground were pounded. I would love to us have mixed it up with SPS, Charlie or Cunningham in the middle. They couldn't do much worse.
I walked away thinking exactly the same. There better players Neale, Walters, Fyfe, Johnson were better than our players. Ross has been using Walters around the ball a lot and it's a great move, Fyfe was way better than his stats suggested, and Neale just knocks up getting it.
We were smashed around the ball from quarter time and were always on the back foot.
Other notes:
- Small Defender - Small forwards are killing us all year. Matera, Billings, Walters/Crozier etc
- Locking the Ball in our forward line - I think our stats had 14 inside 50 tackles to 2. In the last quarter we pressed and had some good looks inside 50, only for it to just hit the floor and bounce back out. So we need to find some pressure forwards as well.
- Young - The scoreboard kept flashing stats of some of our players... 19,19,20, 21, 19. We are so young. Plow made some bad errors, but you can live with that as you know these guys will learn.
- Jack's Goal Kicking - needs to work on it if he wants to become a forward of note.
- Doc was immense.
I suppose so. Freo may not be world beaters, but they have developed into a gutsy, scrapping team. We are not exactly formidable opposition, but their ability to fight back and graft out some close victories would have to instill some kind of confidence.
I understand where Bolts is coming from to a degree - limiting the blow outs limits the "damage" to the players, but gives less opportunities to win, versus win at all costs by playing the in vogue game style, which may give more chances of victory, but also more spankings. He does at least have a plan that he's sticking to. But i still worry. Losing culture is hard to break. The longer we lose more than we win, the longer it takes to get up off the canvas. I'm not sure that the movement up the ladder is linear and simplistic. There's still enormous amounts of work to do, and lots of decisions that need we need to get right. And some luck, and the umps, and.............
One could also use the argument that playing like this betrays the coach's lack of confidence in his players, which may hurt them than it helps. Lots of ifs, buts and maybes.
Yeah, I get that but I am amazed that we manage to play this style of footy and pull it off.
Remember Richmond tried it and had to abandon it because they were so crap by foot and so undisciplined.
Three more quality mids and this style starts paying dividends.
Definitely not.
Our Centre Set ups were awful and it started with our Leaders. Gibbs, Murph and Cripps in the middle of the ground were pounded. I would love to us have mixed it up with SPS, Charlie or Cunningham in the middle. They couldn't do much worse.
I walked away thinking exactly the same. There better players Neale, Walters, Fyfe, Johnson were better than our players. Ross has been using Walters around the ball a lot and it's a great move, Fyfe was way better than his stats suggested, and Neale just knocks up getting it.
We were smashed around the ball from quarter time and were always on the back foot.
Other notes:
- Small Defender - Small forwards are killing us all year. Matera, Billings, Walters/Crozier etc
- Locking the Ball in our forward line - I think our stats had 14 inside 50 tackles to 2. In the last quarter we pressed and had some good looks inside 50, only for it to just hit the floor and bounce back out. So we need to find some pressure forwards as well.
- Young - The scoreboard kept flashing stats of some of our players... 19,19,20, 21, 19. We are so young. Plow made some bad errors, but you can live with that as you know these guys will learn.
- Jack's Goal Kicking - needs to work on it if he wants to become a forward of note.
- Doc was immense.
Small defender has been an issue for a while...Simpson and Docherty are not your ultra defensive lock down types, I like the kid Stavrou in the NB's for this role....good mark for his size and contests well at ground level..
Jack has developed a ball drop issue, its become awkward in a Casboult manner...
Plowman is a mature player for his years and every defender has their off days..
I want my own small sneaky forward...Pickett has faded into the NB's and we seem to want to use Wright on the ball to the detriment of our goal scoring power...and Lebois seems to be making slow progress after injury..
Your man Luke Ryan?...is he AFL material? , cant believe he never got drafted/rookied at least by WC or Freo....
Yeah, I get that but I am amazed that we manage to play this style of footy and pull it off.
Remember Richmond tried it and had to abandon it because they were so crap by foot and so undisciplined.
Three more quality mids and this style starts paying dividends.
Hmm. I reckon we need 3 more good mids irrespective of how we play. And whilst we're shopping :
- 3 mids (as you suggest) - 1 to be like Cripps, and 2 Dylan Shiel types,
- 1 KPF
- 2 small forwards - like Puopolo, who can kick a goal, has pace, and can lock the ball in F50, something which has completely eluded us thus far.
I was like shadesy and at the game and the weather conditions definitely played a part. It was worse than the tv showed real torrential stuff. Our young guys just ran out of strength middle of each quarter and let them get back into it once they got back the almost silent crowd came to life and lifted them past us. Dockers also started to play wet weather football kicking and knocking in on at any cost where we kept on with dry stuff of setting it up for too long. Sandilands gave Fyfe and Neale an armchair ride and they kept belting it forward quick putting our backline under huge pressure which created mistakes. Wet football in a nutshell. We certainly weren't thrashed as one poster said we just weren't strong enough for long enough, that will change with time and body shape. Was happy with the effort not the loss. Sandilands won the game with his ruck work,Kreuzer just not big enough. In the wet he was twice as tall and his tap work superb. Freo will be crap again once he retires or gets injured
Hmm. I reckon we need 3 more good mids irrespective of how we play. And whilst we're shopping :
- 3 mids (as you suggest) - 1 to be like Cripps, and 2 Dylan Shiel types,
- 1 KPF
- 2 small forwards - like Puopolo, who can kick a goal, has pace, and can lock the ball in F50, something which has completely eluded us thus far.
Probably. We could always use more and better players. I'm happy with Harry's progress to date and would love some super competitive small forwards, I just think 3 very good (maybe one or more elite) would be terrific. Hopefully SPS becomes one of these.
Interesting that Freo's reigning F & B player, Lachie neale stands at only 177cm and weighs in under 80kg.....
It's not all about height, weight etc. Smarts still count for a heck of a lot.
Of the Doggies mids, who there is lightning quick? Maybe Dalhaus....
I was like shadesy and at the game and the weather conditions definitely played a part. It was worse than the tv showed real torrential stuff. Our young guys just ran out of strength middle of each quarter and let them get back into it once they got back the almost silent crowd came to life and lifted them past us. Dockers also started to play wet weather football kicking and knocking in on at any cost where we kept on with dry stuff of setting it up for too long. Sandilands gave Fyfe and Neale an armchair ride and they kept belting it forward quick putting our backline under huge pressure which created mistakes. Wet football in a nutshell. We certainly weren't thrashed as one poster said we just weren't strong enough for long enough, that will change with time and body shape. Was happy with the effort not the loss. Sandilands won the game with his ruck work,Kreuzer just not big enough. In the wet he was twice as tall and his tap work superb. Freo will be crap again once he retires or gets injured
Good post, sum's it up nicely.