Carlton Supporters Club

Princes Park => Robert Heatley Stand => Topic started by: crashlander on June 18, 2023, 05:55:58 pm

Title: AFL Rd 15 2023 Carlton have the bye!
Post by: crashlander on June 18, 2023, 05:55:58 pm
Interesting to see what we do over the bye week. The bye has been lethal for some teams this year - coming back against a team who didn't have the bye has led to some embarrassing defeats. Should we be worried?
Title: Re: AFL Rd 15 2023 Carlton have the bye!
Post by: Lods on June 18, 2023, 06:15:41 pm
Interesting to see what we do over the bye week. The bye has been lethal for some teams this year - coming back against a team who didn't have the bye has led to some embarrassing defeats. Should we be worried?

I think we take the lesson from other sides.
We've had a good win but we have to approach the next match with a clear focus.
Sides often have a down game, so all the planning should be around making sure that doesn't happen and we build on today.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 15 2023 Carlton have the bye!
Post by: Gointocarlton on June 18, 2023, 07:12:58 pm
Danger game, we all know what happened all those years ago.

https://youtu.be/qXatqcigUFw
Title: Re: AFL Rd 15 2023 Carlton have the bye!
Post by: Blue Moon on June 18, 2023, 10:25:21 pm
Not sure we can lose this one.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 15 2023 Carlton have the bye!
Post by: blueianh on June 19, 2023, 09:05:33 am
Not sure we can lose this one.

Oh, we can find a way ... but hopefully not.  We are better than this mob, but they are not as forlorn as they have been and beating Brisbane even down here is not a bad effort.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 15 2023 Carlton have the bye!
Post by: Mantis on June 19, 2023, 01:27:51 pm
The rest can quickly take some of your momentum away. I hope they drill intensity and aggression during their training sessions to keep up a desperation for another victory. Not sure how our games have been after a bye. I think it hasn’t been great.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 15 2023 Carlton have the bye!
Post by: tonyo on June 19, 2023, 03:13:38 pm
Not sure we can lose this one.
The Bye in AFL has a great record - none of its opponents has ever come away with a win.

Different story in the NRL - every opponent gets 2 competition points without touching a ball!
Title: Re: AFL Rd 15 2023 Carlton have the bye!
Post by: pew2 on June 19, 2023, 03:33:20 pm
extra training sessions
Title: Re: AFL Rd 15 2023 Carlton have the bye!
Post by: Gointocarlton on June 19, 2023, 04:19:39 pm
extra training sessions
Yep, if it me as the skipper in the predicament we are in, I would have addressed them after the GC game (or even before)  and said "I'm cancelling my mid season break to do some extra physio, recovery and training at the club, who's joining me?" That would sort out the committed from the non committed.
I suspect that just wouldnt happen these days.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 15 2023 Carlton have the bye!
Post by: PaulP on June 19, 2023, 05:04:19 pm
We've recently read about the extra work that Harry McKay does on his game, and I bet he's not the only one. Add to that the sh1storm that has engulfed the club recently, I would definitely give the boys some extra R+R. They need to freshen up, recuperate and recharge a little bit. 14 weeks continuous football is a hard slog. What I would get them to do is some extra sessions with the club psychologist, to ensure (as much as possible) that they don't come out half asleep for the Hawks game, and have to play catch up for the last 3q because they gave up a big lead.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 15 2023 Carlton have the bye!
Post by: kruddler on June 19, 2023, 05:51:30 pm
We've recently read about the extra work that Harry McKay does on his game, and I bet he's not the only one. Add to that the sh1storm that has engulfed the club recently, I would definitely give the boys some extra R+R. They need to freshen up, recuperate and recharge a little bit. 14 weeks continuous football is a hard slog. What I would get them to do is some extra sessions with the club psychologist, to ensure (as much as possible) that they don't come out half asleep for the Hawks game, and have to play catch up for the last 3q because they gave up a big lead.

100% give them some time off.

Harry is supposedly the most committed bloke on our list in terms of preperation and focussing on football....and how has that been working for him?

Sometimes the best thing you can do is forget about football for a moment and that can end up being the best thing for them.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 15 2023 Carlton have the bye!
Post by: Gointocarlton on June 19, 2023, 07:04:01 pm
We've recently read about the extra work that Harry McKay does on his game, and I bet he's not the only one. Add to that the sh1storm that has engulfed the club recently, I would definitely give the boys some extra R+R. They need to freshen up, recuperate and recharge a little bit. 14 weeks continuous football is a hard slog. What I would get them to do is some extra sessions with the club psychologist, to ensure (as much as possible) that they don't come out half asleep for the Hawks game, and have to play catch up for the last 3q because they gave up a big lead.
Plenty of time for R&R at the end of the year.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 15 2023 Carlton have the bye!
Post by: northernblue on June 19, 2023, 08:11:14 pm
100% give them some time off.

Harry is supposedly the most committed bloke on our list in terms of preperation and focussing on football....and how has that been working for him?

Sometimes the best thing you can do is forget about football for a moment and that can end up being the best thing for them.

Something that dad hinted at in that article the other day.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 15 2023 Carlton have the bye!
Post by: Thryleon on June 20, 2023, 08:06:30 am
100% give them some time off.

Harry is supposedly the most committed bloke on our list in terms of preperation and focussing on football....and how has that been working for him?

Sometimes the best thing you can do is forget about football for a moment and that can end up being the best thing for them.

I've often looked at our team and wondered if they are a happy bunch.  They sometimes seem a bit over whelmed by it all.

Title: Re: AFL Rd 15 2023 Carlton have the bye!
Post by: Lods on June 20, 2023, 09:35:30 am
When you're set on a plan, you're doing a lot right and it's just not happening, it can be frustrating.
You're confident you're on the right track, so you just go that little bit harder, figuring that if you give that little bit of extra effort it will make the difference.
What you're actually doing in effect is 'trying too hard' and the mental impact of extra effort=poorer result doesn't really compute.
It can leave you angry, frustrated and unhappy.
I'm wondering whether we've been seeing a little of that in the first half of this year.

In my own experience of coaching and competing in track and field, the best performance sometimes comes when you're relaxed.
You'll see it in100 metre races where one sprinter looks loose and fluid in his running while the guy alongside him looks to be straining, tightening up giving what appears to be greater effort, but losing all form and going backwards.
I've sometimes had athletes coming off a week of sickness, no expectations, yet producing a personal best.

Give them a week off. ;)

Coming up after the bye is more a mental than a physical issue.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 15 2023 Carlton have the bye!
Post by: Gointocarlton on June 20, 2023, 10:17:24 am
When you're set on a plan, you're doing a lot right and it's just not happening, it can be frustrating.
You're confident you're on the right track, so you just go that little bit harder, figuring that if you give that little bit of extra effort it will make the difference.
What you're actually doing in effect is 'trying too hard' and the mental impact of extra effort=poorer result doesn't really compute.
It can leave you angry, frustrated and unhappy.
I'm wondering whether we've been seeing a little of that in the first half of this year.

In my own experience of coaching and competing in track and field, the best performance sometimes comes when you're relaxed.
You'll see it in100 metre races where one sprinter looks loose and fluid in his running while the guy alongside him looks to be straining, tightening up giving what appears to be greater effort, but losing all form and going backwards.
I've sometimes had athletes coming off a week of sickness, no expectations, yet producing a personal best.

Give them a week off. ;)

Coming up after the bye is more a mental than a physical issue.
I disagree, maybe because I'm a hard task master by nature. At the end of the day, 1. What does it mean to them? 2. Are they prepared to leave no stone unturned? 3. Can they look in the mirror at the end of a failed year and say "I did everything I could"?
I reckon I know what they would answer to all the above.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 15 2023 Carlton have the bye!
Post by: Lods on June 20, 2023, 11:14:27 am
I disagree, maybe because I'm a hard task master by nature. At the end of the day, 1. What does it mean to them? 2. Are they prepared to leave no stone unturned? 3. Can they look in the mirror at the end of a failed year and say "I did everything I could"?
I reckon I know what they would answer to all the above.


In any training annual period there has to be times when you have heavy and lighter loads....'periodization'.
Peaks and troughs of intensity
A continual demanding load through the season is counter-productive...it leads to burn-out and injury.
Russell and the fitness crew should be all over it.
The season would have been planned well in advance to peak at the right time of the year...and in thatb process there would be times of heavier and lighter loads.

If we are to have a week off or low intensity it would have been planned well in advance.
The greater issue will be the mental impact of the bye and having the players ready to go in the right frame of mind against Hawthorn.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 15 2023 Carlton have the bye!
Post by: LP on June 20, 2023, 12:02:17 pm
If we are to have a week off or low intensity it would have been planned well in advance.
The greater issue will be the mental impact of the bye and having the players ready to go in the right frame of mind against Hawthorn.
Agreed.

As long as Cook keeps an eye on the process, in my experience micromanagement can easily do more harm than good, especially if it's used as a substitute for good skills training and education.

I generally associate micromanagement with corporate psychopaths.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 15 2023 Carlton have the bye!
Post by: Gointocarlton on June 20, 2023, 04:14:45 pm
In any training annual period there has to be times when you have heavy and lighter loads....'periodization'.
Peaks and troughs of intensity
A continual demanding load through the season is counter-productive...it leads to burn-out and injury.
Russell and the fitness crew should be all over it.
The season would have been planned well in advance to peak at the right time of the year...and in thatb process there would be times of heavier and lighter loads.

If we are to have a week off or low intensity it would have been planned well in advance.
The greater issue will be the mental impact of the bye and having the players ready to go in the right frame of mind against Hawthorn.
They go on a break after a good win, get on the piss, lose momentum, play like dogs against Haw. Lets revisit the argument when that occurs.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 15 2023 Carlton have the bye!
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on June 20, 2023, 04:32:03 pm
They can have a rest and freshen up....this season is gone imo and Im only interested in players who we want to persist with going forward. Win, lose, or draw against Hawthorn wont mean much and Id be wanting to get everyone fit so I can assess them for next season. The fringe players whose career's are on the line would be the ones I might decide need some extra work but the contracted locks I would be resting.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 15 2023 Carlton have the bye!
Post by: Lods on June 20, 2023, 05:21:21 pm
They go on a break after a good win, get on the piss, lose momentum, play like dogs against Haw. Lets revisit the argument when that occurs.

If that's the level of their professionalism then that will reflect on them.
Not on the coaches or fitness staff.
You might be right.
That would be in the words of Stewie Dew "beyond disappointing."

If the Hawthorn game is a debacle I suspect it will be more a break in the momentum gained, caused by the draw rather than not having a week of intense training.
The draw is beyond our control.
The whole purpose of the bye is a for a break and rest for the players in a very long season.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 15 2023 Carlton have the bye!
Post by: kruddler on June 20, 2023, 05:25:51 pm
Back in the day....and even during Careys time atop the AFL tree....going out and getting crapfaced on a weekly basis was just the standard. It provides great bonding (unless you shag your mates wife) and an ability to escape the scrutiny and pressures of afl, if only for 1 night a week.

Now we want everyone to be robots. Watch them 24/7 thanks to smart phones and social media and demand they be choir boys at the same time? Yeah nah.

Give the boys some 'destressing' time.
They need more of it, not less.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 15 2023 Carlton have the bye!
Post by: Gointocarlton on June 20, 2023, 05:32:48 pm
If that's the level of their professionalism then that will reflect on them.
Not on the coaches or fitness staff.
You might be right.
That would be in the words of Stewie Dew "beyond disappointing."

If the Hawthorn game is a debacle I suspect it will be more a break in the momentum gained, caused by the draw rather than not having a week of intense training.
The draw is beyond our control.
The whole purpose of the bye is a for a break and rest for the players in a very long season.
Like I said, if I was the Captain, my mind would be in a different space.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 15 2023 Carlton have the bye!
Post by: Lods on June 20, 2023, 05:50:04 pm
Like I said, if I was the Captain, my mind would be in a different space.
But it might actually be counter productive.
With good intentions, it might actually be the wrong move.
A rest may be just what some need.
They can savour the GC result for a week longer, come back next weekend with a week before the Hawthorn game and refocus.

In actual fact what will probably happen, and should happen, is a very individual approach to the week off.
Some players in recovery phase, who haven't played a lot in recent times will probably continue as usual.
Some with niggling injuries may get a good rest.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 15 2023 Carlton have the bye!
Post by: northernblue on June 20, 2023, 08:21:13 pm
I think we all agree that this bye has come at a bad time for us.
I certainly wish we were playing this weekend and could keep the good vibes and momentum flowing, there’s a very real chance of it dissipating by our next game but the bye it is and those who need rest (physical or mental) will get it and those who need to do more work will likely get that too.
Let’s see how we regroup and come back…
Title: Re: AFL Rd 15 2023 Carlton have the bye!
Post by: LP on June 22, 2023, 08:17:00 am
No matter what happens in the lead-in or aftermath, this is probably this is the most boring week of the year.

It's like some omnipotent hyper-intelligent super-being took away all the fun just to screw with us!
Title: Re: AFL Rd 15 2023 Carlton have the bye!
Post by: northernblue on June 22, 2023, 08:29:23 am
I wouldn’t give Gil that much credit…
Title: Re: AFL Rd 15 2023 Carlton have the bye!
Post by: kruddler on June 24, 2023, 10:48:56 am
Well i know the boys have the bye, but they are still doing duties.

Had the sons auskick last night and Boyd, Fogarty and Hewitt were there helping out. Signing some autographs and taking photos with the kiddies.
Got a footy signed and got the kids to stand still for long enough for a photo. No time for chit-chat as there was a big line.
They were able to force a smile for an hour and pretend they all cared and gave the kids a good experience. I don't envy them having to do that....especially for little kids in collingwood jumpers .
Title: Re: AFL Rd 15 2023 Carlton have the bye!
Post by: Gointocarlton on June 25, 2023, 10:55:10 am
Like I said, if I was the Captain, my mind would be in a different space.
I was listening to an interview with Stan Longinidis of Kick Boxing Fame on SEN, great fella to listen to BTW. Talked about his motivational speaking he does with kids, adults etc. He mentioned how he is a Coll supporter and when all the De Goey stuff with Bali was going on, he said he couldn't understand how he would so that and how in general players go on holidays mid season. His said "how much are you prepared to sacrifice?". And that's exactly what my point was with all this. What does it all mean to you and how far are you prepared to go?
Title: Re: AFL Rd 15 2023 Carlton have the bye!
Post by: Lods on June 25, 2023, 12:08:14 pm
I was listening to an interview with Stan Longinidis of Kick Boxing Fame on SEN, great fella to listen to BTW. Talked about his motivational speaking he does with kids, adults etc. He mentioned how he is a Coll supporter and when all the De Goey stuff with Bali was going on, he said he couldn't understand how he would so that and how in general players go on holidays mid season. His said "how much are you prepared to sacrifice?". And that's exactly what my point was with all this. What does it all mean to you and how far are you prepared to go?

I agree with that.
Heading off to Bali for a holiday is probably a 'bridge too far'.

I'm just not sure the more 'hard work' in this period is better than a couple of days away from the club.
Spending a bit of time with family and friends, and then back into it from Monday...is probably not so much of an issue.

I've no idea what the players we're doing last week.
I suspect it would be varied...and players that needed a bit of extra work will probably be getting it.
Others with a niggly injury or two, are probably having a rest.

We employ high quality fitness folks to give us the best guidance on these things.
A heavy training load for all players over a break could be the last thing the players need...but it might benefit some.

I'm talking from a Track and Field experience but the basic principles would be pretty similar for football.
Any training has two main components-
The workout followed by a period of rest and recovery.
Ideal training programs also comprise periods of high intensity and low intensity.
And it's not just the body that requires that rest and recovery, there's also the mind that needs that 'down time'...and sometimes the signs of that are pretty easy to spot...players getting frustrated by a practice that is not producing results.

So we don't know for sure what individual players have done over the last week, or what they'll be doing the next week...but hopefully it's been tailored on an individual basis.

The week after the bye is always a bit of a tricky time to navigate.
If we come out flat against Hawthorn it won't be because we didn't bust a gut in the off period.
The problem will be caused by the fact that after a good performance, the 'bye' came at an unfortunate time for continuity.

The majority of the hard training work would have been done pre-season.
During the actual playing period it would be more about maintenance.
But there would probably also be a few blocks of heavy sessions within that period.
It's why you may sometimes see teams have a flat couple of weeks while the heavy training period is occurring.
It may not be as noticeable as it was in years past (the old mid-season slump) because they probably individualise the programs so different players are being 'loaded' at different times.
In that case we're more likely to see an individual have a couple of off weeks.

The 'bye' is all about giving the players that mental and physical break in a long season.
If it's not used largely for that purpose, we should just keep playing.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 15 2023 Carlton have the bye!
Post by: LP on June 25, 2023, 12:27:37 pm
I agree with that.
Heading off to Bali for a holiday is probably a 'bridge too far'.
It should be attracting the focus of the auditor, because the AFL players could easily go to FNQ, Darwin or WA and would still be almost anonymous.

There must be a reason they so often choose Bali, I suspect they get sweetheart deals from venues owned and operated by mates or former AFL players, there are many many venues in Bali that are part owned or operated by AFL players or retired AFL players!
Title: Re: AFL Rd 15 2023 Carlton have the bye!
Post by: Gointocarlton on June 25, 2023, 12:57:19 pm
I agree with that.
Heading off to Bali for a holiday is probably a 'bridge too far'.

I'm just not sure the more 'hard work' in this period is better than a couple of days away from the club.
Spending a bit of time with family and friends, and then back into it from Monday...is probably not so much of an issue.

I've no idea what the players we're doing last week.
I suspect it would be varied...and players that needed a bit of extra work will probably be getting it.
Others with a niggly injury or two, are probably having a rest.

We employ high quality fitness folks to give us the best guidance on these things.
A heavy training load for all players over a break could be the last thing the players need...but it might benefit some.

I'm talking from a Track and Field experience but the basic principles would be pretty similar for football.
Any training has two main components-
The workout followed by a period of rest and recovery.
Ideal training programs also comprise periods of high intensity and low intensity.
And it's not just the body that requires that rest and recovery, there's also the mind that needs that 'down time'...and sometimes the signs of that are pretty easy to spot...players getting frustrated by a practice that is not producing results.

So we don't know for sure what individual players have done over the last week, or what they'll be doing the next week...but hopefully it's been tailored on an individual basis.

The week after the bye is always a bit of a tricky time to navigate.
If we come out flat against Hawthorn it won't be because we didn't bust a gut in the off period.
The problem will be caused by the fact that after a good performance, the 'bye' came at an unfortunate time for continuity.

The majority of the hard training work would have been done pre-season.
During the actual playing period it would be more about maintenance.
But there would probably also be a few blocks of heavy sessions within that period.
It's why you may sometimes see teams have a flat couple of weeks while the heavy training period is occurring.
It may not be as noticeable as it was in years past (the old mid-season slump) because they probably individualise the programs so different players are being 'loaded' at different times.
In that case we're more likely to see an individual have a couple of off weeks.

The 'bye' is all about giving the players that mental and physical break in a long season.
If it's not used largely for that purpose, we should just keep playing.
I get the benefits of the break, I'm just saying what I think I would do as a leader to try and extract every ounce. I guess it would depend on the group, their health (physical and mental) and their reaction to "extras" if it were put to them. It would be an interesting exercise nonetheless. As Cripps said in his HS interview, there are all types at the club, structured/unstructured, positive/negative, energy givers/energy drainers. Managing/Leading that is a hell of a task.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 15 2023 Carlton have the bye!
Post by: Lods on June 25, 2023, 03:14:59 pm
I get the benefits of the break, I'm just saying what I think I would do as a leader to try and extract every ounce. I guess it would depend on the group, their health (physical and mental) and their reaction to "extras" if it were put to them. It would be an interesting exercise nonetheless. As Cripps said in his HS interview, there are all types at the club, structured/unstructured, positive/negative, energy givers/energy drainers. Managing/Leading that is a hell of a task.

I actually think that's probably the key.
There is a diversity of players amongst the group.
There are probably players who given the opportunity to have a break would choose to do 'extras'.
Sometimes that's the difference between the champion, and one who never really get's the best out of themselves.
It's probably something you have to carefully manage because for everyone of those guys, there's probably someone else, who is feeling a bit broken because of some extra demands, and is 'crawling' towards a break.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 15 2023 Carlton have the bye!
Post by: Thryleon on June 25, 2023, 06:18:31 pm
It should be attracting the focus of the auditor, because the AFL players could easily go to FNQ, Darwin or WA and would still be almost anonymous.

There must be a reason they so often choose Bali, I suspect they get sweetheart deals from venues owned and operated by mates or former AFL players, there are many many venues in Bali that are part owned or operated by AFL players or retired AFL players!

Mate, it's not that big a mystery.  Bali is a better place to go party than most of the places you mention, where you can actually swim in the sea and stay at luxury accommodation on a beer budget.  Have you stayed at Australia's champagne hotels?  They're a world away from what you get staying in some of these places that are at worst competitive price wise.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 15 2023 Carlton have the bye!
Post by: kruddler on June 25, 2023, 08:09:19 pm
It should be attracting the focus of the auditor, because the AFL players could easily go to FNQ, Darwin or WA and would still be almost anonymous.

There must be a reason they so often choose Bali, I suspect they get sweetheart deals from venues owned and operated by mates or former AFL players, there are many many venues in Bali that are part owned or operated by AFL players or retired AFL players!

Bali costs you nothing, but gets you everything. Auditors not required.

Why do they choose bali? Why does anyone? It seems to be the aussie thing to do. (PS, i've never been to Bali and have no intention of ever going, but i understand why people do).
Title: Re: AFL Rd 15 2023 Carlton have the bye!
Post by: Lods on June 25, 2023, 08:13:53 pm
It's probably the last place you'd go for a mid-season trip if you were a fair dinkum professional.
End of season... a different story ;)  :D
Title: Re: AFL Rd 15 2023 Carlton have the bye!
Post by: Gointocarlton on June 27, 2023, 07:36:44 am
I read with interest that the skipper of the 2s Crocker didn't have the week off, instead lined up for Langwarrin in the MPFNL.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 15 2023 Carlton have the bye!
Post by: Lods on June 27, 2023, 08:28:50 am
I read with interest that the skipper of the 2s Crocker didn't have the week off, instead lined up for Langwarrin in the MPFNL.

Yep
The VFL players get a few extra breaks during the season ( 4 byes) and many of the non- AFL listed players are tied to local clubs.
For a lot of them it's as good as a break to go back and play locally because you can have a bit of a "kick and giggle" with your mates.
You can choose to have the week off or go and have a game with a bit less pressure.

I suspect it's something some AFL listed players would do too....but the club just wouldn't allow it.
There'd be hell to pay if Charlie Curnow did a knee playing for the Bullamakanka reserves during 'bye' week.

On the other hand we had our AFL and VFL sides both with a break last week.
Had the VFL side been playing it's pretty certain it would have been filled with AFL listed guys who needed a bit of extra work, including some who played seniors against the Suns.
Dow for one would probably have been on the team bus, given his limited game time in recent weeks.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 15 2023 Carlton have the bye!
Post by: Gointocarlton on June 27, 2023, 10:12:23 am
Yep
The VFL players get a few extra breaks during the season ( 4 byes) and many of the non- AFL listed players are tied to local clubs.
For a lot of them it's as good as a break to go back and play locally because you can have a bit of a "kick and giggle" with your mates.
You can choose to have the week off or go and have a game with a bit less pressure.

I suspect it's something some AFL listed players would do too....but the club just wouldn't allow it.
There'd be hell to pay if Charlie Curnow did a knee playing for the Bullamakanka reserves during 'bye' week.

On the other hand we had our AFL and VFL sides both with a break last week.
Had the VFL side been playing it's pretty certain it would have been filled with AFL listed guys who needed a bit of extra work, including some who played seniors against the Suns.
Dow for one would probably have been on the team bus, given his limited game time in recent weeks.
Not suggesting for a second senior players play bush footy instead of having a break, just saying some blokes have a good attitude, Crock was abit ordinary for a few weeks then found a bit of form before the bye. I guess he didnt want to lose any touch so...
Title: Re: AFL Rd 15 2023 Carlton have the bye!
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on June 27, 2023, 10:20:55 am
Not suggesting for a second senior players play bush footy instead of having a break, just saying some blokes have a good attitude, Crock was abit ordinary for a few weeks then found a bit of form before the bye. I guess he didnt want to lose any touch so...
Think he might have a business connection with one of Langs sponsors..might have played a few games with Port Colts too who get a few ex AFL players on their list.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 15 2023 Carlton have the bye!
Post by: Gointocarlton on June 30, 2023, 02:15:51 pm
@Lods dont want to harp on about this but I was reminded of another example. Tour de France, 3500km over 3 weeks all at a fair clip with some of the meanest roaded mountains on the planet along the way. What do the riders do on their day off? Spin the legs over 100km for craps and giggles.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 15 2023 Carlton have the bye!
Post by: Lods on June 30, 2023, 05:02:52 pm
@Lods dont want to harp on about this but I was reminded of another example. Tour de France, 3500km over 3 weeks all at a fair clip with some of the meanest roaded mountains on the planet along the way. What do the riders do on their day off? Spin the legs over 100km for craps and giggles.

Is that right...
I haven't really followed the race
I wasn't sure of their activity during the break in the tour.
Is it everyone doing that extra cycle?
Is it an organised activity?
I'm guessing it's not a full on effort but more just keeping the legs turning over at a much reduced intensity.

But consider professional cyclists would be training for most of the year.
The Tour would be the same as their Olympics/world championship/ Commonwealth Games
For the elite, the ones with a good chance of winning, those events would be targeted so they reach their peak at the time of the competition.
During that annual training period there would be peaks and troughs of intensity.
They wouldn't be training flat out for that entire 12 month period.
I suspect for cyclists they may even have some weeks, even at the elite level, where they don't even sit on a bike and have a complete break...much like a footballer has his end of season break.

The more intense activity would be well away from the 'ultimate' event.
For a footballer that's the pre-season.
That's where you build a base.
With a 'competition' every week for the 20+ weeks of the season it then becomes more about maintenance during the season.
There may be a heavy block of training at different times through the season proper but it's more about maintaining fitness levels.

But there are other factors at play at the elite level, no matter what the sport.
The mental and injury issues.
Mental fatigue and niggling injuries can both benefit from that break in competition where a rest is probably the best option.

It's quite remakable the failure of some teams to 'get up' after the bye.
You can make a case that the 'switch off' is detrimental.
On the other hand the benefit of the break may not manifest itself until a few weeks after the bye.
Better to lose a game just after the bye, than to lose two or three heading into the finals.
Of course there are teams that can't afford to lose any...as we know.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 15 2023 Carlton have the bye!
Post by: Gointocarlton on June 30, 2023, 07:05:19 pm
Is that right...
I haven't really followed the race
I wasn't sure of their activity during the break in the tour.
Is it everyone doing that extra cycle?
Is it an organised activity?
I'm guessing it's not a full on effort but more just keeping the legs turning over at a much reduced intensity.

But consider professional cyclists would be training for most of the year.
The Tour would be the same as their Olympics/world championship/ Commonwealth Games
For the elite, the ones with a good chance of winning, those events would be targeted so they reach their peak at the time of the competition.
During that annual training period there would be peaks and troughs of intensity.
They wouldn't be training flat out for that entire 12 month period.
I suspect for cyclists they may even have some weeks, even at the elite level, where they don't even sit on a bike and have a complete break...much like a footballer has his end of season break.

The more intense activity would be well away from the 'ultimate' event.
For a footballer that's the pre-season.
That's where you build a base.
With a 'competition' every week for the 20+ weeks of the season it then becomes more about maintenance during the season.
There may be a heavy block of training at different times through the season proper but it's more about maintaining fitness levels.

But there are other factors at play at the elite level, no matter what the sport.
The mental and injury issues.
Mental fatigue and niggling injuries can both benefit from that break in competition where a rest is probably the best option.

It's quite remakable the failure of some teams to 'get up' after the bye.
You can make a case that the 'switch off' is detrimental.
On the other hand the benefit of the break may not manifest itself until a few weeks after the bye.
Better to lose a game just after the bye, than to lose two or three heading into the finals.
Of course there are teams that can't afford to lose any...as we know.
Just to be clear, I was talking about their rest days during the actual TDF of which there are 2 or 3 I think. Every rider in every team will still turn the legs on a rest day.
As for the bye break, I think there is enough evidence to suggest the "switch off" is detrimental. Our blokes in particular have long been known to "not come to play" at the best of times during the season, I'd hate to think what they will dish up on Sunday after a break sinking piss and getting up to god knows what.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 15 2023 Carlton have the bye!
Post by: Lods on June 30, 2023, 08:00:41 pm
Just to be clear, I was talking about their rest days during the actual TDF of which there are 2 or 3 I think. Every rider in every team will still turn the legs on a rest day.
As for the bye break, I think there is enough evidence to suggest the "switch off" is detrimental. Our blokes in particular have long been known to "not come to play" at the best of times during the season, I'd hate to think what they will dish up on Sunday after a break sinking piss and getting up to god knows what.

The unknown though.... is it a 'short term detriment' at the gain of a 'long term benefit'.
If the players hadn't had the break, would there be signs of wear and tear later in the season.
Why do we have a bye at all if there aren't sound reasons for it.
The fans certainly don't want it.

Does anyone know what each of our players were doing on the break?
I doubt they were all sitting around drinking for three or four days.

The only problem may have been a loss of structure, in that for a couple of days their days weren't dictated by the club.



 
Title: Re: AFL Rd 15 2023 Carlton have the bye!
Post by: Gointocarlton on June 30, 2023, 08:24:09 pm
The unknown though.... is it a 'short term detriment' at the gain of a 'long term benefit'.
If the players hadn't had the break, would there be signs of wear and tear later in the season.
Why do we have a bye at all if there aren't sound reasons for it.
The fans certainly don't want it.

Does anyone know what each of our players were doing on the break?
I doubt they were all sitting around drinking for three or four days.

The only problem may have been a loss of structure, in that for a couple of days their days weren't dictated by the club.



 
I guess we'll now the answer on Sunday and in the coming weeks.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 15 2023 Carlton have the bye!
Post by: northernblue on July 02, 2023, 11:34:28 am
@Lods think of the TdF as a blockbuster game during the season, some players will rest up in the leadup to be in peak condition for that 1 game.
Maybe Tennis is a better understood example, you’ve got the Grand Slam tournaments and then a whole host of “warmup and satellite events” that constitute the season.
TdF, Giro Italia, Vuelta de Espania, Paris Roubex, Criterium du Dauphine then a plethora of minor races make up the cycling season.

As G2C says, on off days and even pre/post race warm up/down, the riders turn out enormous numbers
Title: Re: AFL Rd 15 2023 Carlton have the bye!
Post by: Lods on July 02, 2023, 12:48:14 pm
I guess what I'm arguing is the 'more is better" philosophy.

It just results in burnout, mental fatigue and injury if there isn't some down time as well
Title: Re: AFL Rd 15 2023 Carlton have the bye!
Post by: Gointocarlton on July 02, 2023, 07:06:57 pm
I guess what I'm arguing is the 'more is better" philosophy.

It just results in burnout, mental fatigue and injury if there isn't some down time as well
At the end of the day Lods, they came out and won following the break in a game they had to win despite not having a ruckman. Lets hope and pray they go on with it.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 15 2023 Carlton have the bye!
Post by: Lods on July 02, 2023, 08:02:02 pm
At the end of the day Lods, they came out and won following the break in a game they had to win despite not having a ruckman. Lets hope and pray they go on with it.

Yep
I'm still not sure what they all did during the break though.
Whether some took the opportunity for extra sessions or some just had a complete break.
I think it would probably have been a bit varied and individual.

The important thing was they looked like they were back at it early in the week, and looked pretty switched on from the start of the game today.