All ready for the post game this week.
I guess it’s official; Freo is rubbish like all the other teams we’ve beaten this season 🙄
Very solid effort from the boys. Go Blues 👏
Ruckman are overrated
Excellent and professional win. Loved it, our defence was great.
Probably our best win this season given how hard it is to beat Freo at home and with the handicap of no ruckman.
Yep the last two wins were vs rubbish teams but this was a decent win and a good team effort overall and I thought Harry played a very good all-round game and Walsh returned to more of his usual form. Sorry to see Kennedy injured as he is one of my fav players but Hewett should prove a able replacement vs Port next week.
Yep ruckman are over rated but the physical wear and tear aspects of using part timers vs proper ruckman might show in the next few weeks if we don't have our front liners back.
I doubt there would be one person here that would've knocked that back if given the choice pre-game.
Take that every week.
This win meant a bit more seeing it was against a decent side, at least, interstate, especially by the margin we beat them by. Only a game out of the 8 now.
Must've been just one of those patches during our horror run which sides get occasionally. That, or we tried something different that didn't work. Not inside the 4 walls so I don't know.
Two games at Optus this year for a combined winning margin of 161 points.
Maybe we still think it is the old Optus Oval and we feel at home...haha.
Great win by the boys. We looked the better side for 4 quarters. Maybe an "A" for the voting thread for the first time this year. I'm sort of thinking it was the same last year we played this mob? Are they our bunnies? Only disappointment was Kennedy's injury. Fingers crossed on a favourable outcome.
How hard, and important is Jack Martin! Fumbled early, but put in a great second half, his pressure is elite! (That bump!!)
How hard, and important is Jack Martin! Fumbled early, but put in a great second half, his pressure is elite! (That bump!!)
One of the dead-set highlights of the game. 2 weeks in a row he's done that. Hope he can stay fit
Probably our best win this season given how hard it is to beat Freo at home and with the handicap of no ruckman.
Yep the last two two wins were vs rubbish teams but this was a decent win and a good team effort overall and I thought Harry played a very good all-round game and Walsh returned to more of his usual form. Sorry to see Kennedy injured as he is one of my fav players but Hewett should prove a able replacement vs Port next week.
Yep ruckman are over rated but the physical wear and tear aspects of using part timers vs proper ruckman might show in the next few weeks if we don't have our front liners back.
it wasn’t just the win. But the way the win happened. Comprehensive. I didn’t feel as nervous as usual when they got a few in a row, I felt confident they’d go on with it. Nice change.
One of the best all round wins on every line I have seen in a while.
A few boys out there need to give themselves a pat on the back for that performance
Excellent and professional win. Loved it, our defence was great.
Weiters and Saad where HUGE! Gov was also very good to be fair.
I was very impressed, especially early when the game was there to be won, with the slick, in close, ball movement. Seemed to position well for the receive but importantly they spotted targets and most often hit them.
Often we seem to do the inside flick around as a defensive/panic move but today they seemed to use it to attack.
I think we're going to have to face the fact sooner or later.
It's time to let it go and accept it. :(
The best ruckman on our list is Harry McKay ;D
( well he was probably our best ruckman today) ;)
Ruckman are overrated
It only looks that way because Darcy isn't the smartest ruckman going around (just one of the strongest). He is fairly predictable in how he plays and how he delivers the ball. If he changed things up occasionally, make himself more predictable to him teammates instead of his opponents, it would be different.
To be honest, not a lot of modern ruckmen are matchwinners; they do a lot of push and shove and forget some of the most important lessons in ruck play.
NicNat has been one of the most complete rucks of recent times; he guides taps do moving mids, he doesn't just do the same things any time, he is willing to give the ball a huge bash sometimes and he often is in the play after the initial contest. he is the sort of ruck that makes premierships.
Not many of that type around these days. There are a lot of crash and bash rucks, who can be effective, but most don't deliver the ball that well.
Pittonet is a crash and bash type, but he
can aim his taps pretty well. Not as good this year as he was last, but other teams. have done a lot more work on him, and he has been injured or recovering from injury a lot. But he has the problem in that he is predictable; he almost never smashes the ball forward, for example. That can be a lethal trick, if his mids are ready for it.
Breeann Moody does the big smash more than most rucks. The problem was that few of our mids were prepared for it. That has changed a bit, while Moody is developing her directional tapping better than she used to.
To be a great ruck, you need to be a thinker, not just strong, which limits many modern rucks.
Two games at Optus this year for a combined winning margin of 161 points.
Maybe we still think it is the old Optus Oval and we feel at home...haha.
If only!
Now we need to learnt to win in Adelaide.
It only looks that way because Darcy isn't the smartest ruckman going around (just one of the strongest). He is fairly predictable in how he plays and how he delivers the ball. If he changed things up occasionally, make himself more predictable to him teammates instead of his opponents, it would be different.
To be honest, not a lot of modern ruckmen are matchwinners; they do a lot of push and shove and forget some of the most important lessons in ruck play.
NicNat has been one of the most complete rucks of recent times; he guides taps do moving mids, he doesn't just do the same things any time, he is willing to give the ball a huge bash sometimes and he often is in the play after the initial contest. he is the sort of ruck that makes premierships.
Not many of that type around these days. There are a lot of crash and bash rucks, who can be effective, but most don't deliver the ball that well.
Pittonet is a crash and bash type, but he can aim his taps pretty well. Not as good this year as he was last, but other teams. have done a lot more work on him, and he has been injured or recovering from injury a lot. But he has the problem in that he is predictable; he almost never smashes the ball forward, for example. That can be a lethal trick, if his mids are ready for it.
Breeann Moody does the big smash more than most rucks. The problem was that few of our mids were prepared for it. That has changed a bit, while Moody is developing her directional tapping better than she used to.
To be a great ruck, you need to be a thinker, not just strong, which limits many modern rucks.
Agree with all that, but I think credit needs to go to the Coaches and Mids for working hard on a plan to combat ruck dominance at ground level. Credit to the coaches for giving the mids confidence and credit to the mids for sticking to the plan and keeping there chins up.
Darcy 58
Jackson 11
Treacy 1
Total 70
Young 10
H 6
SOS 2
Total 18
Thats a smashing in any language smart or not and yet, apart from Frees and Centre Clearances, we won every other stat.
That was as selfless, workmanlike, determined, team a performance as I have seen from a Carlton side in many years.
Pleasingly unexpected.
You have to like some of pour stats:
[1] Cripps had 29 possessions, 10 clearances and 5 tackles.
[2] Cerra had 27 possessions, 1 goal, 6 tackles and 6 clearances.
[3] H had 20 possessions from CHF, 3 goals 2 behinds, 8 marks, 6 hit outs and 4 tackles. How complete is that from a CHF!?!
We win the clearances comfortably (41 to 35), yet they have 70 taps!
And we were outscored in the last quarter, which evened up the stats a bit!
Late to the party and didn't see the game.
I was invited to a grass roots country football game. My recently deceased dad was a life member who'd filled every position from president to line marker, to water boy. He also played 400+ league games and coached juniors through to the league, winning multiple premierships.
To our surprise the club dedicated todays game to him. It will be an annual tribute match. All very moving for the family. He was such a humble man, we had no idea of the extent to which, he improved the on field performance and lives of so many people.
Arriving home to a big W v Dockers felt like a wonderful end to the weekend. The comments I've read so far are very encouraging, even heart-warming!
I can't wait to watch the replay.
Go Blues.
Late to the party and didn't see the game.
I was invited to a grass roots country football game. My recently deceased dad was a life member who'd filled every position from president to line marker, to water boy. He also played 400+ league games and coached juniors through to the league, winning multiple premierships.
To our surprise the club dedicated todays game to him. It will be an annual tribute match. All very moving for the family. He was such a humble man, we had no idea of the extent to which, he improved the on field performance and lives of so many people.
Arriving home to a big W v Dockers felt like a wonderful end to the weekend. The comments I've read so far are very encouraging, even heart-warming!
I can't wait to watch the replay.
Go Blues.
Sympathies on the loss of your father LN and he obviously passed on the love of the game to you and 400 games plus is a fair effort in any league and I cant remember what coach said the following but it was along the lines of the main role of any football club is to take in people and make them better people by the time they leave the club and your father sounds similar..
Sorry for your loss LoveNavy but that would have been a lovely day for you yesterday to see your Dad's contribution remembered in such a fashion.
And then to come home to see a good win.
Groundhog day. ;)
Just had a look at Longmuir's press conference.
A shell-shocked, shattered mess.
No idea what went wrong or what to do about it.
Not sure he will be there much longer.
Just had a look at Longmuir's press conference.
A shell-shocked, shattered mess.
No idea what went wrong or what to do about it.
Not sure he will be there much longer.
Agree...he looks clueless and defeated.
Just had a look at Longmuir's press conference.
A shell-shocked, shattered mess.
No idea what went wrong or what to do about it.
Not sure he will be there much longer.
Chris Scott has made the point that games are won and lost during the pre-season and in the lead up to the game, not in the coach’s box. I don’t think that Longmuir could have done anything to change the game. It was lost in the lead up.
I can understand Longmuir expecting his midfield to dominate with Darcy and Jackson being virtually unopposed. Jackson doing nothing didn’t help but Longmuir was blindsided by our ability to neutralise Freo’s hitouts. I suspect that he was also sucked in by our form slump and their home ground advantage.
The flip side is how well our team was prepared and well every player performed their roles.
Have watched the game twice now. My thoughts, for what it's worth;
Acres - Fair game but his disposal by both hand and foot still not great. A lot of high balls. Nevertheless he would have been happy with his game against the old team.
Boyd - I'm a bit of a fan and think he's going along nicely. A bit of toe and always tries hard. He also likes to try and pinpoint his passes which might not always come off but 70% DE is pretty good.
Cerra - Another outstanding game. Not sure how much Cripps won the B&F by last year but he's on track to smash that margin, whatever it was. The complete package. Great pick-up
Cincotta - In the same camp as Boyd but a bit better above his head and kicks very well on BOTH sides of his body.
Cottrell - Good return game back. Ran hard both ways, as he always does, and is a consistantly reliable shot on goal.
Cripps - Back playing the way he was last year. Strong at the ball and using it very well, for the most part. I think that he's not trying to do it all anymore. He draws in opposition players to the tackle and then feeds it off, which is when he's at his best. Terrific at the moment.
Cuningham - Quietish sort of game but his disposal is predominatly fantastic and he is a smart footballer.
Curnow - Did really well I thought. His kicking over a long distance is so effective at times, it's a joy to watch. My only gripe was his last goal where he had the handball option over the top to Harry in the goal square on offer. Don't get greedy Charlie. Team first please. Something like that could come back to bite you
Docherty - Another great game by Doc. Just seems to have so much time and usually chooses the right option.
Fogarty - Worked hard for the whole game. Played the small forward role well and a nice conversion. I have him ahead of Owies.
Hewett - Not a lot of it when he came on but I'm glad he's still getting a game. Could really be handy with the unfortunate loss of Kennedy.
Kemp - A bit of up and down was Kempy yesterday I thought. Some really good, then some shocking but thought he finished off well. Getting better.
Kennedy - Devastating loss. Was on target to being BOG IMO. Just wormanlike from the start. Hope it's not serious but I fear it will be.
Martin - Best of the 3 small forwards. No goals this week (although did give one off), some fumbles but his work up and back was outstanding. That bump in the middle of the ground on a much bigger body was terrific. Another full game into him. Can only get better I think.
McGovern - Very solid. No horrendous mistakes and kicks a goal. Looks like a bad cork but hoping the re-hab gets him back for a very important game this week.
McKay - Top game by Harry. Worked hard. Took marks. Rucked well. Two drop punt goals that never looked like missing. Are his dramas over?
Newman - Good and bad but overall 23 disposals off half-back is a fair return, AND he played on Walters. We seem to play better when he's in the team?
Owies - Two handball receive goals and some would say that's effective but I look at the shot he had from 40 out directly in front that didn't even score and this for me is a real tell. He doesn't do enough for me and I have him as no.3 of the small forwards. Just doesn't go hard enough when the ball is there for the taking.
Saad - Really impressed with his game this week. Worked really hard and contested at times on blokes way bigger than him. Nice game
Silvagni - Very good from Jack. He and Young battled manfully against the big lug and his sidekick. They are both working like ruck-rovers so I'm wondering if we even need true ruckmen. Not sure what happens if one or both ruckmen become available. A real dilemma.
Walsh - Great game. His field kicking has steadily improved over the last month and his tank is unbelievable. On song at the moment. BOG
Weitering - Completely dominated his opponent. Punched when he had to and took his marks when he had to. Think it may have been his best game for the year.
Young - Better this week than last and as I said about Jack battled manfully against much bigger bodies. Thought Jack was better but did well. Just needs to throw his weight around a bit more
Jackson's form must be a big concern to Freo. Like TdK, where does he fit?
The bloke they ditched (Lobb) to fit in Jackson is now somebody else's problem.
I read this morning that Fremantle are the 4th or 5th youngest list in the AFL, so I guess that may partly explain their indifferent form over the season. No doubt some will take the view that Justin Longmuir is the most boring man in AFL football, and puts the players to sleep. Personally, I find his calm, unruffled demeanour to be a pleasant antidote to some of the other AFL coaches.
Rocky, Cripps polled 181 votes in the 2022 B+F. Docherty was 2nd with 173 votes.
Sounds like a great old man, LN.
I was wrong about the result by about 15 goals (thought we'd lose by 5).
Rucks were a bit like when Freo had Sandilands - great player, got all the taps but opposition could rove to him.
Great all round game - the Blues were relentless, which was great to see.
Impressive across the board IMO. Another good spread of goalkickers so we're not relying on just Charlie or Harry.
Smashed in the ruck like last week but the ground work that Silvagni does is excellent.
Kennedy's knee looked like a bad one but fingers crossed it's not season ending. Hewett should be able to step up but he doesn't provide that extra bit of marking power that Kennedy has when he goes forward. Hopefully McGovern can get up for next week....he's playing some good footy at the moment and helps us structurally down back.
I'm enjoying seeing Boyd and Cincotta come on. I wasn't sold on Boyd but I was at the Hawks game last week and you get a better perspective than on TV....Boyd's run and carry is really good and he uses it pretty well. It gives us some good ball users down back with him, Cincotta, Newman and Saad and frees up Docherty to play more in the midfield at times.
Just had a look at Longmuir's press conference.
A shell-shocked, shattered mess.
No idea what went wrong or what to do about it.
Not sure he will be there much longer.
They are use to ruck dominance leading into midfield and clearance dominance, when things do not follow the AFL script a lot of AFL old boys end up perplexed, they are too formulaic in their approach.
For much of this season, we've been taking the front position and letting our players get tackled by opponents trailing them to the ball. In the last 3 weeks we've flipped that on it's head, and we are the ones hunting opponents in the midfield. Then later in games when the opposition start to fatigue Cripps reverts to the old ways and starts hunting the footy instead of opponents, and they can't stop him.
Very impressed with this win.
Was against decent opposition on their deck and we comprehensively thrashed them and never looked in any danger which is a rare thing since the rebuild started.
Thought while our stars played solid games I think our form improvement is as much on the back of the run we are getting from kemp Cunningham Martin Cottrell and even Boyd which I know many don’t rate him but he deserves the same time we afforded to any kid coming though.
Kemp takes the game on and reads the play very well. I wasn’t sure about him but think he could be become a permanent defender who can play on tall or medium forwards.
Loved Jacks game too.
Massive test this week.
I read this morning that Fremantle are the 4th or 5th youngest list in the AFL, so I guess that may partly explain their indifferent form over the season. No doubt some will take the view that Justin Longmuir is the most boring man in AFL football, and puts the players to sleep. Personally, I find his calm, unruffled demeanour to be a pleasant antidote to some of the other AFL coaches.
It's a perception thing Paul.
We can look at the same press conference and see different things.
I didn't think he looked calm and unruffled in his press conference yesterday....or even boring.
He looked very disappointed, vague, fumbly and gave the impression of someone without a lot of answers...other than the fact the side was young.
But they've gone backwards and are extremely inconsistent this season.
Now those are views that are shared by quite a few Fremantle supporters last night and today.
But their side just had a pretty bad loss and they've reacted pretty much how we do when we have a bad run.
Many are calling for a change...but their options are probably a bit more limited, and they're not as attractive as a destination for a 'coach in waiting'.
Just on the 'other' team.
One point Voss made in his presser was that they had 'simplified the game plan and the players had embraced that and as a result were playing better'
Which begs the questions...
Was the game plan they were using in the first part of the year too complicated for our guys and beyond their capabilities and skill level?
We're they not embracing it previously?
What changes were made to the plan.
Was there some truth to the discontent and were some 'hard' conversations undertaken.
Lods, I suspect most supporters only watch the press conferences relating to their team. I have for a number of years tried to watch as many as time allows, for all teams, and Longmuir's body of work over time definitely matches my description. Yesterday he was off his normal standard by a fair way IMO.
Lods, I suspect most supporters only watch the press conferences relating to their team. I have for a number of years tried to watch as many as time allows, for all teams, and Longmuir's body of work over time definitely matches my description. Yesterday he was off his normal standard by a fair way IMO.
Fair enough.
I'd only watch him from news grabs and when Freo played Carlton so he hasn't left a marked impression.
Just thought he looked a bit shattered and bewildered yesterday.
It's a perception thing Paul.
We can look at the same press conference and see different things.
I didn't think he looked calm and unruffled in his press conference yesterday....or even boring.
He looked very disappointed, vague, fumbly and gave the impression of someone without a lot of answers...other than the fact the side was young.
But they've gone backwards and are extremely inconsistent this season.
Now those are views that are shared by quite a few Fremantle supporters last night and today.
But their side just had a pretty bad loss and they've reacted pretty much how we do when we have a bad run.
Many are calling for a change...but their options are probably a bit more limited, and they're not as attractive as a destination for a 'coach in waiting'.
Just on the 'other' team.
One point Voss made in his presser was that they had 'simplified the game plan and the players had embraced that and as a result were playing better'
Which begs the questions...
Was the game plan they were using in the first part of the year too complicated for our guys and beyond their capabilities and skill level?
We're they not embracing it previously?
What changes were made to the plan.
Was there some truth to the discontent and were some 'hard' conversations undertaken.
Lets not forget something very important about the game plan, Voss and the coaches developed it around what the players thought about how they wanted to play and what they felt best suited them. The reason for it was so that there was total buy in (ie they all owned it).
Rocky, Cripps polled 181 votes in the 2022 B+F. Docherty was 2nd with 173 votes.
Thanks Pauly. Let's see how Cez goes (baring injury)
It only looks that way because Darcy isn't the smartest ruckman going around (just one of the strongest). He is fairly predictable in how he plays and how he delivers the ball. If he changed things up occasionally, make himself more predictable to him teammates instead of his opponents, it would be different.
To be honest, not a lot of modern ruckmen are matchwinners; they do a lot of push and shove and forget some of the most important lessons in ruck play.
NicNat has been one of the most complete rucks of recent times; he guides taps do moving mids, he doesn't just do the same things any time, he is willing to give the ball a huge bash sometimes and he often is in the play after the initial contest. he is the sort of ruck that makes premierships.
Not many of that type around these days. There are a lot of crash and bash rucks, who can be effective, but most don't deliver the ball that well.
Pittonet is a crash and bash type, but he can aim his taps pretty well. Not as good this year as he was last, but other teams. have done a lot more work on him, and he has been injured or recovering from injury a lot. But he has the problem in that he is predictable; he almost never smashes the ball forward, for example. That can be a lethal trick, if his mids are ready for it.
Breeann Moody does the big smash more than most rucks. The problem was that few of our mids were prepared for it. That has changed a bit, while Moody is developing her directional tapping better than she used to.
To be a great ruck, you need to be a thinker, not just strong, which limits many modern rucks.
^^^^^^^
I couldn't agree with more. As a fat, old "back in my day" ruckman, It's been sad to see the limited effect the current crop of big lads has on the centre bounce, but the fact is, as much as I love SOS's competitiveness at the bounce, our mid-field would be far less effective around a team with a good ruckman.
Either way, I will take this win any day of the week. Well done team.
Thought I'd share a text message from a Freo supporting mate in Perth - "Left game half way through 3rd quarter, which is a record for me. Freo are pathetic , blues playing like a top 4 team. Go figure ."
Well beaten in rucking contests but I thought the game plan for our rucks was very effective.
Harry was very good rucking up forward.
Young was very effective dropping into defence and contributed a lot at ground level.
Silvagni seemed to spend less time in the ruck but was an excellent contributor around the ground.
Freeing up Weitering, from the last line of defence, continues to pay dividends and the rest of the defenders are developing into a real collaborative team with a willingness to contribute in attacking runs. The other big difference with the defence is the long-overdue midfield pressure on the ball carriers. This was massive in each of the past 3 games and it really shows the difference if it drops off even a little bit. Probably one of the reasons for Dow, LOB and Fisher languishing in the ressies.
Lets not forget something very important about the game plan, Voss and the coaches developed it around what the players thought about how they wanted to play and what they felt best suited them. The reason for it was so that there was total buy in (ie they all owned it).
This resonates with me.
Recall much of Vossy's commentary over his tenure being about layering.
That process lends itself to creating a strong suitable foundation. From there you integrate the best the progression brings, and intervene to trim or train the rest. All the while there are many moving parts. Some are static. Some variable. Some controllable, others not so.
I know I repeat this, but consistency is crucial. Any chance we had 22 was eroded by injury when the foundations were still wet. This year may show the aspects of the various layers requiring attention. Therefore adjusting and stabilising takes time. It also causes confusion, breading anxiety for the individual.
Thinking systems, I'm hopeful we've endured the bulk of the instabilities. I'm hopeful our greatest challenge now is to maintain, sustain, and find methods to add those final touches consistently. Then we earn the right to enter the F equation.
Go Blues
Well beaten in rucking contests but I thought the game plan for our rucks was very effective.
Harry was very good rucking up forward.
Young was very effective dropping into defence and contributed a lot at ground level.
Silvagni seemed to spend less time in the ruck but was an excellent contributor around the ground.
Freeing up Weitering, from the last line of defence, continues to pay dividends and the rest of the defenders are developing into a real collaborative team with a willingness to contribute in attacking runs. The other big difference with the defence is the long-overdue midfield pressure on the ball carriers. This was massive in each of the past 3 games and it really shows the difference if it drops off even a little bit. Probably one of the reasons for Dow, LOB and Fisher languishing in the ressies.
Interesting how we setup this week and how Weitering goes vs big bad Charlie Dixon, I always feel Dixon needs a second player to help Weitering as he is too much for one defender and if TDK returns it may not be at the expense of Young who I think will be needed down back.
How hard, and important is Jack Martin! Fumbled early, but put in a great second half, his pressure is elite! (That bump!!)
And McGovern is slowly playing well (and playing each week)... maybe our list of disaster recruits is thinning out??
Went to the game and one thing stood out was the relentless tackling. We had a real appetite for the contest and body contact where earlier in the season we were playing a bit of bruise free stuff.
Sorry for your loss LoveNavy but that would have been a lovely day for you yesterday to see your Dad's contribution remembered in such a fashion.
And then to come home to see a good win.
Groundhog day. ;)
Thankyou.
It was indeed sweet.
To add, the rain held off all day (a rarity) and the reserves and league won in true 'never say die' fashion. The colts were going to forfeit with - 6. In true country style, a few juniors pulled on the boots and they played in the similar fashion. This is the club culture.
A lot of talk about the ruck so you know i have to post the stats.
Hitouts:
Freo - 70
Carlton - 18
Centre Clearances
Freo - 9
Carlton - 8
Total clearances
Freo - 35
Carlton - 41
Hitouts to advantage
Freo - 22 (20 to Darcy)
Carlton - 4
To me that showed Darcy was most effective in the centre bounces with Freo getting more clearances from there, but our mids were clearly best on the day getting a lot from around the ground. It shows that although Freo got first use (through Darcy) our relentless pressure on the ball carrier meant that they did not get any easy possessions
In terms of individuals.
Young had 58 ruck contests, 10 hitouts, 2 to advantage - 3.4% RC-HTA%
Harry had 26, 6 and 1 - 3.8%
Jack had 20, 2 and 1 - 5%
(Darcy had 85 - 58 and 20 - 23.5%)
(Jackson had 20 - 11 and 2 - 10%)
Freo ruck stats are good.....if they are up against a recognised ruck.
They are very poor considering who their opponents were.
As an example, Pittonet vs Dogs (English w/ Lobb) had 21.6% RC-HTA. I think i read that English was in someone AA team right now.
So Pittonets ruck work vs AA ruckman is/was as good as Darcys vs nobody's.
Hitouts are useless it seems.
Hitouts are useless it seems.
Which is what i've been saying all year.
Hitouts to advantage are the only thing that is worth looking at, but even that can be counteracted if you have elite pressure for the entire game, which we did.
How do you get elite pressure? Well it starts by not carrying 2 rucks!
Which is what i've been saying all year.
Hitouts to advantage are the only thing that is worth looking at, but even that can be counteracted if you have elite pressure for the entire game, which we did.
How do you get elite pressure? Well it starts by not carrying 2 rucks!
I have come around on that but unfortunately I'm going to disagree on who the one ruckman is.
Coaches' votes :
10 Adam Cerra (CARL)
6 Patrick Cripps (CARL)
4 Sam Walsh (CARL)
4 Luke Ryan (FRE)
2 Harry McKay (CARL)
2 Adam Saad (CARL)
1 Jacob Weitering (CARL)
1 Charlie Curnow (CARL)
Hitouts are useless it seems.
It depends on who is hitting them and who is in position to reap the rewards.
I think that our plan was to disrupt the hitouts so that they didn't provide an advantage to the Freo mids. Young and Silvagni put a lot of effort into buffeting Darcy and Jackson so that their hitouts weren't well-directed. Our mids were able to shark the hitouts or shut down the Freo mids when they did gather hitouts. It's a situation where a "hitouts to disadvantage" statistic would be useful.
It depends on who is hitting them and who is in position to reap the rewards.
I think that our plan was to disrupt the hitouts so that they didn't provide an advantage to the Freo mids. Young and Silvagni put a lot of effort into buffeting Darcy and Jackson so that their hitouts weren't well-directed. Our mids were able to shark the hitouts or shut down the Freo mids when they did gather hitouts. It's a situation where a "hitouts to disadvantage" statistic would be useful.
Yes, hitouts sharked is the official term and i've only managed to track it down by contacted Champion data directly, and that was a summary of 50 rucks from the first 12 rounds or so. Nothing on a game by game breakdown etc. They only gave it to me as a one off because i sweet talked them ;)
I have often used Silvagni as an example of what you described. Might not win the contest, but ensure the opposition has a hard time of it by bodying the ruckmen out of the way. Something someone like Young lacks in comparison.....and TDK largely as well.
It was very much a team performance.
I have come around on that but unfortunately I'm going to disagree on who the one ruckman is.
Well at least you've seen the light.....2 rucks are a waste.
Realistically, If TDK got halfway near where his potential is, he should be our #1 ruck picked. I think a couple times over the past 12 months he probably has been. However, his inconsistency, and is lack of aggression work against him.
Around the ground, he offers 1 disposal more than Pittonet does this year....but that is also with 8% more game time on average. So roughly 10 minutes more TOG and gets 1 possession in that time. So there is SFA between them in pure numbers - posted comparison elsewhere in the past week. Pittonet has played a lot of this year injured/underdone so long term those %'s might not hold up.
IMO Pittonets advantage in ruck craft is why he deserves the #1 mantle. His tapwork is elite. His aggression is something we don't get from anyone else on the ground (who is somewhat comparable in size at least)
Here's the problem though.
We mostly rate Tom on what he might be capable of...
Hope of his potential being realised.
But if he's not playing seniors how is he to realise that potential.
Playing VFL won't do it for him.
It's a different game in terms of pressure, structure, team-mates, opposition and other variables.
If he's behind Pittonet and Pittonet is performing and we go with the one ruck he never gets the chance.
Here's the problem though.
We mostly rate Tom on what he might be capable of...
Hope of his potential being realised.
But if he's not playing seniors how is he to realise that potential.
Playing VFL won't do it for him.
It's a different game in terms of pressure, structure, team-mates, opposition and other variables.
If he's behind Pittonet and Pittonet is performing and we go with the one ruck he never gets the chance.
If Pittonet is performing, and we are winning, why do we wanna change that?
Rucks (at least our rucks) always get injured, so there will always be an opportunity.
Of course, if Harry/Charlie get injured, TDK is first called up there as well.
I just think playing someone because he COULD be better is a good way to ruin something good.
TDK hasn't been able to dominate VFL level yet. Let him knock down that door before we play the woe is me card for him.
Late to the party and didn't see the game.
I was invited to a grass roots country football game. My recently deceased dad was a life member who'd filled every position from president to line marker, to water boy. He also played 400+ league games and coached juniors through to the league, winning multiple premierships.
To our surprise the club dedicated todays game to him. It will be an annual tribute match. All very moving for the family. He was such a humble man, we had no idea of the extent to which, he improved the on field performance and lives of so many people.
Arriving home to a big W v Dockers felt like a wonderful end to the weekend. The comments I've read so far are very encouraging, even heart-warming!
I can't wait to watch the replay.
Go Blues.
400 games !!
Reckon I would have enjoyed a chat over a beer or two with your Dad, the stories would be rolling out all session.
Haven't see the game yet as I was working down in the Illawarra ...... (hello Lods).
Raydan did ring me whilst I was driving home and made a point of how 'crushing' the tackling was, he also pointed out the 'team first' mentality that was out there too.
Sounds like there is something to get really pleased about with this one, will try and watch the game over the next couple of days.
If Pittonet is performing, and we are winning, why do we wanna change that?
Rucks (at least our rucks) always get injured, so there will always be an opportunity.
Of course, if Harry/Charlie get injured, TDK is first called up there as well.
I just think playing someone because he COULD be better is a good way to ruin something good.
TDK hasn't been able to dominate VFL level yet. Let him knock down that door before we play the woe is me card for him.
He'll get a run, once fit, while Pittonet is injured.
But if we don't play him for the rest of the year once Pittonet returns we can probably kiss him goodbye.
I'm also having a bit of a problem with the 'hit-out to advantage' being a useful stat either.
We had 4 in 120 minutes of football and won the game by 50+ points
That's as useful as breasts on a male bovine.
Ruckmen are an endangered species.
They'll go the same way as the 'Rover'
400 games !!
Reckon I would have enjoyed a chat over a beer or two with your Dad, the stories would be rolling out all session.
Virtually uninjured in 20yrs. He consistently ran 7 miles each way for training. That probably helped.
Family, football, friends, coaching/mentoring, fishing, and a cold frothy were some of his favourite things. I have no doubt he'd love to hear your stories. So would I for that matter. For a new thread maybe.
Late to the party and didn't see the game.
I was invited to a grass roots country football game. My recently deceased dad was a life member who'd filled every position from president to line marker, to water boy. He also played 400+ league games and coached juniors through to the league, winning multiple premierships.
To our surprise the club dedicated todays game to him. It will be an annual tribute match. All very moving for the family. He was such a humble man, we had no idea of the extent to which, he improved the on field performance and lives of so many people.
Arriving home to a big W v Dockers felt like a wonderful end to the weekend. The comments I've read so far are very encouraging, even heart-warming!
I can't wait to watch the replay.
Go Blues.
Sorry for your loss LN. Your dad sounds like he was quite a character and a true legend of the game!
Enjoy our win mate!
This resonates with me.
Recall much of Vossy's commentary over his tenure being about layering.
That process lends itself to creating a strong suitable foundation. From there you integrate the best the progression brings, and intervene to trim or train the rest. All the while there are many moving parts. Some are static. Some variable. Some controllable, others not so.
I know I repeat this, but consistency is crucial. Any chance we had 22 was eroded by injury when the foundations were still wet. This year may show the aspects of the various layers requiring attention. Therefore adjusting and stabilising takes time. It also causes confusion, breading anxiety for the individual.
Thinking systems, I'm hopeful we've endured the bulk of the instabilities. I'm hopeful our greatest challenge now is to maintain, sustain, and find methods to add those final touches consistently. Then we earn the right to enter the F equation.
Go Blues
If you think about all of his pressers, whilst it sounded repetitive, he was bang on and it all makes sense now. He said things like:
- Go to work on our errors
- Providing the players with a clear picture of what we want to play and look like
He repeated the above over and over and this week, he said that the players now have a clear picture of what it all looks like.
So hopefully, fingers crossed, we have turned the corner and the its all clicked for them.
He'll get a run, once fit, while Pittonet is injured.
But if we don't play him for the rest of the year once Pittonet returns we can probably kiss him goodbye.
I'm also having a bit of a problem with the 'hit-out to advantage' being a useful stat either.
We had 4 in 120 minutes of football and won the game by 50+ points
That's as useful as breasts on a male bovine.
Ruckmen are an endangered species.
They'll go the same way as the 'Rover'
That is an anomaly, i'll admit.
The main take away from that, as i stated earlier, is that our elite pressure essentially overcame that result.
The pressure we put on Freo, for a full 4 quarters no less, is also an anomaly.
Even when Freo got the HTA, the subsequent possessions were under so much pressure that they soon lost that advantage.
The coverage i watched flashed up the 'pressure rating' a few times and each time we were in the elite category.
Now, for a quarter or so, sure, but all game? Unheard of.
I wish i could remember which game it was, but there was a goal directly from a hitout to advantage, from Pittonet, about a month or 2 ago. He hit the ball back over his shoulder, into the breadbasket of a teammate who kicked truly from 35m. It was all over before anyone else could take a step. Thats something that a good tap ruckman can provide.
Hit out to advantage at 0.08 sec ;D
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ix_tPTv-wZQ
It's interesting I've been watching a few clips of Nicholls and Polly Farmer.
Farmer in particular had a habit of taking the ball from the ruck and hand-balling it to a team-mate.
Its a tactic that if you had the sort of ruck dominance Freo had yesterday may have served them better...or even the big whack forward.
Here's one for the books, not one player failed to lay a tackle yesterday. I look at this most weeks and I can't recall over seeing that. I should clarify, every single Blues and Freo player laid at least one tackle.
Hit out to advantage at 0.08 sec ;D
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ix_tPTv-wZQ
It's interesting I've been watching a few clips of Nicholls and Polly Farmer.
Farmer in particular had a habit of taking the ball from the ruck and hand-balling it to a team-mate.
Its a tactic that if you had the sort of ruck dominance Freo had yesterday may have served them better...or even the big whack forward.
2 things.
1. Great vid. Its funny the Pittonet tap i was trying to remember looked very similar to the first highlight you saw from big nick. A big round arm over the shoulder into the breadbasket of a teammate.
2. The 'dominance' of a ruck is something that we do not see enough of. Pittonet uses his strength to physical move his opponents out of the way. The grabbing out of the ruck is definitely a sign of dominance that is under utilised. Ironically its more the key forwards who use that tactic, ala Hawkins. The punch forward also seems to be lost to the game for some reason. This is something that can be arranged pre-game as a set play. 'The 3rd centre bounce of each quarter is going to get thumped forward' or whatever 'tell' you wanna use to communicate to your teammates.*
As a former wicket-keeper, i had to know what my bowlers were going to bowl and when. There were a number of signals that were used, some super simply. When a bloke adjusted the chain around his next - wrong-un. When i guy lifted his bowling arm and adjusted his clingy shirt to that shoulder at the top of his run, slower ball. Nobody else knew there was even a signal happening. Same SHOULD be going on at the footy.
Here's one for the books, not one player failed to lay a tackle yesterday. I look at this most weeks and I can't recall over seeing that. I should clarify, every single Blues and Freo player laid at least one tackle.
Young had 5!!! I thought he was good yesterday.
Hit out to advantage at 0.08 sec ;D
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ix_tPTv-wZQ
It's interesting I've been watching a few clips of Nicholls and Polly Farmer.
Farmer in particular had a habit of taking the ball from the ruck and hand-balling it to a team-mate.
Its a tactic that if you had the sort of ruck dominance Freo had yesterday may have served them better...or even the big whack forward.
I think contemporary ruckmen are drilled to bring the ball down so the mids can run on to it or another stoppage is forced. The only recent ruckmen who genuinely and consistently hit the ball to a teammate's advantage are Ryder and Naitanui. Darcy could have been way more effective if he had been able to break the shackles and play to his strengths and our weaknesses. Jackson was flat out just trying to get into the game.
Contemporary players who take possession of the ball these days are generally key forwards or part time rucks. Even Witts, when rucking without an opponent, tried to palm the ball down rather than taking possession, and that resulted in a goal to us.
Tackles inside 50:
Against:
Fremantle: 18
Hawthorn: 12
Gold Coast: 11
Essendon: 7
Melbourne: 4
So Gold Coast, Hawthorn and Fremantle are no good. Richmond's stumbling victory over Sydney has them primed for finals while Carlton's run is too little too late even though we are ahead of Richmond on the ladder.
I am wary of Carlton but the performances have been very good over the past three matches. Our defence is solid and attacking, our midfield is dominating and our forward line is functioning and we have connection between the lines. We are attacking the ball with intent, we are tackling with our bodies and not just our arms, our small forwards are harassing and kicking goals, our no name defenders are dominating their opponents and our good players are playing up to their abilities.
Carlton has not improved in the second half of a season for 25 years and we haven't gone on a real run of victories for just as long. The rest of the season is a big opportunity starting with Port Adelaide next week.
Just a comment on the ruck situation. Big men should be trying to impose themselves on the match. The problem with Darcy was that everyone knew he would dominate the hit outs, which he did, but that is all he did. He needed to beat up Young and Silvagni which he didn't. In fact Carlton really got into him physically. McKay has become quite physical over the past few weeks and this has created a lot of opportunities for our smaller players. He was very physical with Darcy. If he can keep this up he will have a big say on the rest of this season.
Tackles inside 50:
Against:
Fremantle: 18
Hawthorn: 12
Gold Coast: 11
Essendon: 7
Melbourne: 4
These stats dont surprise me as you can see a real hunger for the contest and swarming of numbers around the ball and if we dont get it we are like a pitbull on a poodle.
Impressed with how we are going in the last 3 weeks just keeping a lid on it till i see how we shape up this week. I give us every chance to cause an upset - If we come out with the same desperation and can stay with them early the crowd will be a massive advantage as the game goes on.
If we bring our best we will win or go very very close. This is a massive week for Voss and the list. Failed in the last 3 games last year when put to the sword really hoping we buck the trend this week.
No news on Matt Kennedy or McGovern ?
No news on Matt Kennedy or McGovern ?
McGovern - corkie - test for next week
Kennedy - medial - several weeks