All ready this week. Please use as soon as the result is known.
We didn't just beat them.
We crapped on them :D
Good team performance. All the elements from the last three weeks were there, pressure, intensity, selflessness, connection.
Curnow aside, mini bags to SOS, Mots and a couple for Jack was very pleasing.
To Mots, that's the level week in week out, that's what you need to build up to.
Hopefully H's injury isn't too long term.
Onto next week.
And the tackle on Bird Jones will result in a suspension to Boyd was it?
Not sure. I'd be more worried about the likes of Mckay and Saad, but Boyd did okay.
I've been critical of Jack Silvagni in the past, and whilst i appreciate his heart, I've never been his biggest fan. But he's been so good since the bye. Great effort Jack. Well done young man.
Not sure. I'd be more worried about the likes of Mckay and Saad, but Boyd did okay.
I've been critical of Jack Silvagni in the past, and whilst i appreciate his heart, I've never been his biggest fan. But he's been so good since the bye. Great effort Jack. Well done young man.
So good.
What an amazing game - disappointed I missed it, had my kids bball game 🙄
I said pre game if we win convincingly well, we are back. Shaken off the cobwebs and whatever else
Was hanging on us!
Let’s go Blues, let’s make finals 👏🏽
A very convincing win and a delight to watch. Our defence has developed extremely well and we are now building the rest of our game on that. I was very pleased with the way our lesser lights such as Cottrell, Boyd, Fogarty and Dow played not to mention Motlop with his little bag! Go Blues!
When was the last time we won 4 in a row?
When was the last time we won 4 in a row?
Gointocarlton said R7-10 last year. I think that’s right.
When was the last time we won 4 in a row?
rnds 7-10 last year
Gointocarlton said R7-10 last year. I think that’s right.
See for yourself
https://afltables.com/afl/teams/carlton/allgames.html
A very convincing win and a delight to watch. Our defence has developed extremely well and we are now building the rest of our game on that. I was very pleased with the way our lesser lights such as Cottrell, Boyd, Fogarty and Dow played not to mention Motlop with his little bag! Go Blues!
Not to mention Cunners.
Gointocarlton said R7-10 last year. I think that’s right.
He right. Then we lost to the Pies by 4pts when Walsh got his head pulled off with 3 seconds to go and it wasn't paid.
Previously it was Bolton's first year.
So good.
What an amazing game - disappointed I missed it, had my kids bball game 🙄
I said pre game if we win convincingly well, we are back. Shaken off the cobwebs and whatever else
Was hanging on us!
Let’s go Blues, let’s make finals 👏🏽
I never feel comfortable saying we are back. I’m always hopeful, but wary at the same time. It’s been an impressive 4 games, that’s for sure.
Very good win - they had players missing but so did we....
Hopefully Big H injury isnt too bad.
Convincing win, didnt watch the game due to a family function but will in the next few days.
Hard not to be impressed with that scoreline and Ports outs didnt affect the game to the extent they could use that as an excuse given the winning margin. Hopefully a few results go our way with other teams in the next couple of weeks and we can sneak into the eight..
I never feel comfortable saying we are back. I’m always hopeful, but wary at the same time. It’s been an impressive 4 games, that’s for sure.
Same here - BUT what can we do as supporters other than trust the process they told us is in place - of course having Cunners and Martin fit is also very helpful.
It is up to them now, let’s see if we make finals or just miss out again.
What a fantastic result. Congratulations to all. I didn't think we'd pull that one off. I've never been so thrilled to be wrong. IF....... we can keep this momentum up, well you know the rest.
Can't wait to watch the replay.
Hope our injuries and report are positive.
Go Blues
Been waiting for a big win against a top 4 team and we have it.
Not only we smashed them we did it without the usual top liners playing blinders.Massive even team performance.
I’m usually a hard marker and find negatives regularly but I’m very impressed with this win. They have won 13 in a row and while they lost a few pre game we lost one of our very best early which easily negates their loss and adding in no standout performances by Cripps or Charlie etc this win is full of merit.
Great signs and great for team confidence - has the long sleeping giant finally woken?
My plans to attend the game fell in a heap and I had to watch it from home with the fire roaring and two large shaggy dogs on the couch with me. I enjoyed a couple of cans of CFC-branded beer before switching to Laphroig for the last quarter. 🙂
Apart from Harry’s injury, that was one of the most enjoyable games I’ve watched for some time. We played the game on our terms, adjusted to cover the loss of Harry, and countered every Port challenge. It also showed that tagging opposition guns is unnecessary, provided your team defence is sound and you punish the opposition on the rebound.
My plans to attend the game fell in a heap and I had to watch it from home with the fire roaring and two large shaggy dogs on the couch with me. I enjoyed a couple of cans of CFC-branded beer before switching to Laphroig for the last quarter. 🙂
Apart from Harry’s injury, that was one of the most enjoyable games I’ve watched for some time. We played the game on our terms, adjusted to cover the loss of Harry, and countered every Port challenge. It also showed that tagging opposition guns is unnecessary, provided your team defence is sound and you punish the opposition on the rebound.
My plans to go also changed, I stumbled across a great slow cooker mulled wine recipe during the week so a couple of cups of that kept me company during the game.
Gees Curnow was good, gave Aliir an absolute bath, if frees were paid for blatant blocks and holds he would have kicked ten today. Kane can't bitch about umpiring today, otherwise it would have pushed 100 points I reckon.
We didn't just beat them.
We crapped on them :D
Indeed. had we kicked a little straighter, it could have been a true bath. Still, I think this is our greatest winning margin against Port (I might be wrong). Certainly our best win: 11th thrashing 2nd.
Had the privilege of watching this game from a corporate suite with food and grog provided.
Wasn't expected a win, but thought the experience would be enjoyable enough.
F*** me.....what happened?
I kept pinching myself because i couldn't believe my eyes.
Finals here we come???
Not sure. I'd be more worried about the likes of Mckay and Saad, but Boyd did okay.
I've been critical of Jack Silvagni in the past, and whilst i appreciate his heart, I've never been his biggest fan. But he's been so good since the bye. Great effort Jack. Well done young man.
Jack had one of his best ever games today. Our 3 tall forward line was far too good for Port, until H got injured. Jack took up the slack and delivered.
Charlie had his opponents thrashed early, only to miss twice. he was then well held for close to 2 quarters. Then he got right on top and missed again. Could have had 8.
Gees Curnow was good, gave Aliir an absolute bath, if frees were paid for blatant blocks and holds he would have kicked ten today. Kane can't bitch about umpiring today, otherwise it would have pushed 100 points I reckon.
Incidentally, i saw Kan Cornes after the game and had to resist the urge to belt him and point out how wrong he is.....about well....everything. Even after the big loss he had that smug look on his face.
Personally i thought Aliir Aliir beat Charlie when it mattered. Charlie got a few goals late when the result was beyond doubt, but early on Charlie was outmarked and outpositioned pretty easily. Shows you can beat Charlie in a contest, in a quarter, but not for a whole match.
Convincing win, didnt watch the game due to a family function but will in the next few days.
Hard not to be impressed with that scoreline and Ports outs didn't affect the game to the extent they could use that as an excuse given the winning margin. Hopefully a few results go our way with other teams in the next couple of weeks and we can sneak into the eight..
You are going enjoy a lot of what you see. We were a real team effort today.
Gees Curnow was good, gave Aliir an absolute bath, if frees were paid for blatant blocks and holds he would have kicked ten today. Kane can't bitch about umpiring today, otherwise it would have pushed 100 points I reckon.
He probably will; he is that sort of flog. However, they got half of their scores from dubious frees. Charlie could well have had a LOT more shots if even a couple of the frees were paid. Nor was he alone: the number of times our tackles were not rewarded, I can barely believe.
The two that Chuck tapped down to Motlop were blatant arm holds by Aliir, but the guide dog was asleep
Nic Newman: a guy some idiots in the press wanted to get rid of a few weeks back: 23 possessions, 9 tackles (and really good ones!), 1 goal and 9 scores involvements from the back pocket!!!! 9 score involvements! He really pulled out all stops.
The two that Chuck tapped down to Motlop were blatant arm holds by Aliir, but the guide dog was asleep
They were terrible, but things worked out all right.
Anyone still think we are better off with 2 rucks?
Jack playing the 2nd ruck role, and key forward role, all in one.
Didn't even look fatigued like some suggested while being asked to play ruck.
Give that man a new contract already.
It was good to see Silvagni play such a great team game. Would like to know where that cowardly moron who said he was a disgrace to his family from 100 yards away was watching from so I could rub his nose in it and tell him we don’t need his kind at our club.
Newman played as damaging a game as I've seen from him.
Just got home from the game. Was lucky enough to be in a corporate room hosted by Sticks and Mil Hanna. Fantastic 4 qtr effort, few if any passengers. Pressure and tackling top shelf. Play with this intensity and we will make finals.
Been waiting for a big win against a top 4 team and we have it.
They have won 13 in a row and while they lost a few pre game we lost one of our very best early which easily negates their loss and adding in no standout performances by Cripps or Charlie etc this win is full of merit.
Great signs and great for team confidence - has the long sleeping giant finally awoken?
It's a heck of a lot easier to plan on how you replace injured players when you know a week in advance. Whole different ballgame when you need to cover one of your gun early in the match! Well done match committee! Cripps and Curnow? No one wanted the ball or the win more than Cripps after half time and Curnow's role changed as soon as Harry went off and I thought he was great!! We are officially a 'team first' group of players!!
Incidentally, i saw Kan Cornes after the game and had to resist the urge to belt him and point out how wrong he is.....about well....everything. Even after the big loss he had that smug look on his face.
Personally i thought Aliir Aliir beat Charlie when it mattered. Charlie got a few goals late when the result was beyond doubt, but early on Charlie was outmarked and outpositioned pretty easily. Shows you can beat Charlie in a contest, in a quarter, but not for a whole match.
I listened to the game on the radio. Cornes provided "expert" commentary. He sounded like he was coaching Port earlier on. Then he started with the CFC compliments. Yep, fair dinkum. Admittedly a lot were directed towards Motlop, and rightly so. I was amazed to hear how positive he was, and didn't hear much umpire bashing. So credit where credit's due.
It sounded like Charlie made up for missed goals with goal assists. Especially with H out early. Our smalls surprisingly picked up the slack, and Jack had a blinder.
Such a great feeling to win against a top side. Our best this year IMO. Well done.
It's a heck of a lot easier to plan on how you replace injured players when you know a week in advance. Whole different ballgame when you need to cover one of your gun early in the match! Well done match committee! Cripps and Curnow? No one wanted the ball or the win more than Cripps after half time and Curnow's role changed as soon as Harry went off and I thought he was great!!
"We are officially a 'team first' group of players!!"
Music to my ears. We all know how much more the collective adds beyond even the best individuals.
I'm no medico, but was Harry NOT on crutches after the match, a positive sign?
Gees Curnow was good, gave Aliir an absolute bath, if frees were paid for blatant blocks and holds he would have kicked ten today. Kane can't bitch about umpiring today, otherwise it would have pushed 100 points I reckon.
I thought Allir had the better of him early then Curnow got ontop and smashed him.
I'm no medico, but was Harry NOT on crutches after the match, a positive sign?
Nor in a brace. Some bloke on BF who apparently get the good oil reckons its an ACL, from the vision of the incident, watching him walk around and Vossy's comments I would doubt it. Fingers crossed for H.
It's a heck of a lot easier to plan on how you replace injured players when you know a week in advance. Whole different ballgame when you need to cover one of your gun early in the match! Well done match committee! Cripps and Curnow? No one wanted the ball or the win more than Cripps after half time and Curnow's role changed as soon as Harry went off and I thought he was great!! We are officially a 'team first' group of players!!
When Harry went down, I thought we looked a little short all of a sudden. I thought Young would have been a better sub to add height and positional cover. Im glad I was a wrong, the adjustments made by the coaches and players was first rate.
PS What a difference waking up to 4 wins in a row makes.
I listened to the game on the radio. Cornes provided "expert" commentary. He sounded like he was coaching Port earlier on.........................
I also listened to the radio, but I always listen to the ABC call. Cornes is far too ubiquitous for my tastes.
Nor in a brace. Some bloke on BF who apparently get the good oil reckons its an ACL, from the vision of the incident, watching him walk around and Vossy's comments I would doubt it. Fingers crossed for H.
My daughter was walking normally almost immediately after she did her ACL. So much so that it wasn’t diagnosed for a couple of weeks. On the other hand, my brother couldn’t walk when he did his ACL. It largely depends on how much other damage the knee suffers.
Harry’s knee didn’t appear to hyper-extend and, like the commentators, I thought he’d done an ankle. Bottom line is that we won’t know until after the scan.
🤞that it’s not too bad.
Anyone still think we are better off with 2 rucks?
Jack playing the 2nd ruck role, and key forward role, all in one.
Didn't even look fatigued like some suggested while being asked to play ruck.
Give that man a new contract already.
We probably have to be a little careful that we don't look at periods in isolation.
Otherwise.. we're currently second favourites for the flag. :D :D
Jack was stuffed at the end of last season.
He started this year in indifferent form and the suggestion from some, was that he needed some time in the VFL to recharge.
Well that happened.
It may have been a longer stint if not for the injuries to Pittonet and TDK
There were some interesting comments by Brereton at the time, some of which in hindsight, look to be a bit wide of the mark, but also give a bit of an explanation of a 'point in time' and the effect of the different ruck combinations.
https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/teams/carlton-blues/afl-2023-carlton-blues-dropped-jack-silvagni-team-news-selection-game-against-sydney-swans-reaction-response-marc-pittonet-tom-de-koning-future/news-story/af5b70b3e80f95617391be588db639c2
So Jack's come back and he looks in real good touch....the test will be how he looks at the end of the year.
Has the addition of a couple of forwards also taken a bit of pressure off Jack, taken a bit of the burden, and allowed him a bit more freedom when resting forward?
The team is playing as a unit rather than a group of individuals.
What about the ruck situation going forward?
At the momement I suspect folks are more then happy with the TDK/Silvagni combination.
It's the best we've looked since the middle of last year....perhaps even better.
What happens when Pittonet is fit again?
Tom had the highest number of hitouts for both sides yesterday (we'll wait for the HTA's) but he was getting his hands on it, and his work around the grounds wasn't too bad with 13 disposals and seven score involvements. Hard to drop him on that form.
Do you go with the Pittonet/ TDK, TDK/ Jack or Pitto/Jack?
Well the question may have been answered with the injury to McKay.
Hopefully it's not season ending but he looks like he may miss weeks.
If that's the case....no problem.
They all play.
Anyone still think we are better off with 2 rucks?
Jack playing the 2nd ruck role, and key forward role, all in one.
Didn't even look fatigued like some suggested while being asked to play ruck.
Give that man a new contract already.
Two rucks every time, provided they can do more than take part in ruck contests.
Anyone still think that Pittonet should be selected ahead of de Koning?
That was a great display of forward craft by Silvagni, initially as third tall and then as KPF. In fact our forward has been functioning well and adapted to the loss of Harry without missing a beat. The addition of Martin, Cuningham and Fogarty has helped but Ash Hansen deserves credit.
Four games in a row of not just wins, but wins full of authority. With 23 blokes on the paddock who know exactly what to do, and do it. Together.
Have no doubt Port came to win. The time they put into our key mids was obvious.
Absolutely rapt with (apart from an emphatic win against strong top side in great form):
*JSOS. Proved many of us wrong. Googie on faces. Now to keep it up.
*When port threw everything at us in the 3rd, we responded extremely well - no folding under bona fide opposition sustained heat and pressure. No 'same old, same old' from us. Fkn brilliant.
*Small and medium forwards doing untold damage. Deep delivery into the forward line.
*Nick Newman.
*We continue to be the hunters, regardless. Which has resulted in us putting our collective feet on the throats of the opposition.
Concerns:
*H knee.
*Saady (achilles?).
Bravo, CFC. Now bring this and more against the Weagles. Ignore their ladder position.
I'm no medico, but was Harry NOT on crutches after the match, a positive sign?
I noticed during the song his knee was bandaged. Unlike MK last week, who was in a brace. I'm no medic either but didn’t think it looked severe at the time. Let's hope it's minor 🙏
Any doubts on what TDK offers compared to Pit are now put to bed for good.
TDKs work around the ground and general contribution is not even worth to debating against what Pit offers.
The thing is what we do if TDK does leave as we will then need a first ruck that can contribute around the ground otherwise I prefer to run without a main ruck and go mobile like we did the previous few weeks.
Replay is up on AFL site
Cosy Sunday binge watching anyone?
Enjoy Baggers
I noticed during the song his knee was bandaged. Unlike MK last week, who was in a brace. I'm no medic either but didn’t think it looked severe at the time. Let's hope it's minor 🙏
When you do an ACL, you can still walk in a straight line. It's moving sideways is the problem. I thought it looked like the knee was stiffening up as he walked across the ground. We will only know after the scan tomorrow.
Any doubts on what TDK offers compared to Pit are now put to bed for good.
TDKs work around the ground and general contribution is not even worth to debating against what Pit offers.
The thing is what we do if TDK does leave as we will then need a first ruck that can contribute around the ground otherwise I prefer to run without a main ruck and go mobile like we did the previous few weeks.
We'll play Pitto in the 2's and have him for back up. Then we'll join the queue looking for a unicorn. We'll do our best to develop O'Keeffe and hope Mirkov recovers, regains elite fitness, and develops around the ground.
My daughter was walking normally almost immediately after she did her ACL. So much so that it wasn’t diagnosed for a couple of weeks. On the other hand, my brother couldn’t walk when he did his ACL. It largely depends on how much other damage the knee suffers.
Harry’s knee didn’t appear to hyper-extend and, like the commentators, I thought he’d done an ankle. Bottom line is that we won’t know until after the scan.
🤞that it’s not too bad.
I'll never forget Guy McKenna injuring his knee and getting stretchered off the ground in agony, in the same game Worsfold hurt his knee and ran off the ground limping to the huge roar of Subiaco. McKenna did a medial and missed a few weeks, Worsfold did an ACL and was out for 12 months.
The thing is what we do if TDK does leave as we will then need a first ruck that can contribute around the ground otherwise I prefer to run without a main ruck and go mobile like we did the previous few weeks.
So in retrospect, is signing Pitto long term looking like a smart move or a mistake, if TDKs stays is Pitto trade fodder?
Oddly, I recall some on here claiming we should look at Lycett as a trade target, I wonder what they think now?
Yesterday's game from TDK was as dominant a ruck performance as we've seen in Carlton colours for almost a decade, imagine how good he'll become when he can keep his feet!
We must remember though Port were without the backup duo that is normally the pairing of Dixon and Finlayson, and it looks to me that Port panicked and brought Lycett back before he was ready, and they doubled down on that mistake with Jonas. Lycett was competitive body on body but once TDK's feet hit the ground it was contest over, and that showed in his frustration. Finlayson is OK for the odd stoppage, but being forced to ruck more in the absence of Dixon he output was massively degraded. TDK with SoJ basically run both of them into the ground, and that left far easier pickings for SoJ and Cripps at F50 ruck stoppages when TDK was resting, in the end they were all beating up on Lycett and Finlayson who had nothing left in the tank. But to me our win doesn't say as much about the ruck setup as does Port's situation, in retrospect you'd have to concede they were foolish to run a solo ruck, they just never gained momentum.
An interesting question, if BigH is out is SoJ to continue rucking, or does SoJ rucking diminish his F50 play?
We are still only beating teams that are no good or riddled with injuries. No Pittonett, Kennedy, Williams or Owies and we lose McKay in the first ten minutes but Port were the team that was undermanned. I thought Dow had more impact on the game than Hewitt. We are a very good side when we play with intent and endeavour. We are in charge of our own destiny. We win four of six we get there. There is no reason why we can't win six of six. We just need to turn up with the same mindset that we have turned up with in the past four games. Finally, winning is so much better than losing.
I thought Dow had more impact on the game than Hewitt.
I thought when he first came on Dow was OK, but re-watch the first 5mins of the 2nd or 3rd quarter and you'll see why Dow struggles to get a regular game.
There is are several periods of play where he just doesn't chase with any intensity, from the stoppage Dow trails behind an opponent he could easily catch, leaving team-mates to run past him to do the heavy work, and it's only the first few minutes of the quarter. Even if he couldn't catch he should still be exerting some pressure instead of leaving an opponent have an easy disposal.
In another passage of play, Dow trails an opponent again which is perhaps OK maybe the opponent is too quick, except Cripps runs past Dow and tackles the opponent!
That is the exact opposite of how everybody else in the team is playing, everybody else is all in instantly.
Why Dow is like this is a mystery, he no longer naturally hunts the footy, it seems he needs to be forced to do so!
My mate I go to the footy with says when this happens Dow is having another "rabbit in the headlights" moment, to me it looks like Dow has to think about what to do next, instead of just doing it.
Was probably Newman's best game for our club, he seemed to relish being set free from D50, we also benefitted from having him using the ball more forward of centre.
He's a proper footballer's footballer.
Haven't watched the game yet but TDK had 5 more hitouts than Lycett only and one more possession. Port actually won the clearances....not sure how that equates to TDK being the ruck messiah and Pittonet spending his years in the twos.
Difference via the stats seemed to be Jack in that role of part time ruck and forward which supports Kruddlers theories more of one specialist ruck and a part timer being adequate for the modern game.
Haven't watched the game yet but TDK had 5 more hitouts than Lycett only and one more possession. Port actually won the clearances....not sure how that equates to TDK being the ruck messiah and Pittonet spending his years in the twos.
Difference via the stats seemed to be Jack in that role of part time ruck and forward which supports Kruddlers theories more of one specialist ruck and a part timer being adequate for the modern game.
Watch the game. TDK was unreal and you can see why he would be getting big offers. The Port rucks were trying to hurt him in the second half.
Watch the game. TDK was unreal and you can see why he would be getting big offers. The Port rucks were trying to hurt him in the second half.
A prime example of how what happens on the ground can have little relationship to the stats. Tom's game was one of the best ruck performances in navy blue since Matty K was at his best.
TDK had a ripper. Was more like a RR. Took defensive marks, good below the knees, couldn't fault him.
We are still only beating teams that are no good or riddled with injuries. No Pittonett, Kennedy, Williams or Owies and we lose McKay in the first ten minutes but Port were the team that was undermanned. I thought Dow had more impact on the game than Hewitt. We are a very good side when we play with intent and endeavour. We are in charge of our own destiny. We win four of six we get there. There is no reason why we can't win six of six. We just need to turn up with the same mindset that we have turned up with in the past four games. Finally, winning is so much better than losing.
Georgie had five tackles to Paddy's zip and 19 possessions (10 contested) at 74% to Paddy's 14 at 53%. The only positive for Paddy was the cheers from the crowd when he got a touch.
If Paddy is to command a regular spot in the 22, he has to lift his defensive intensity and improve his decision-making. Cuningham didn't have a great game but the contrast between his ability to create the space and time to evaluate the options and execute well and Paddy's bang the ball onto his boot style is notable.
A prime example of how what happens on the ground can have little relationship to the stats. Tom's game was one of the best ruck performances in navy blue since Matty K was at his best.
Absolutely spot on.
Interesting votes given on ch 9 footy show this morning
Cripps
Houston
JSOS
Newman
🤔
Georgie had five tackles to Paddy's zip and 19 possessions (10 contested) at 74% to Paddy's 14 at 53%. The only positive for Paddy was the cheers from the crowd when he got a touch.
If Paddy is to command a regular spot in the 22, he has to lift his defensive intensity and improve his decision-making. Cuningham didn't have a great game but the contrast between his ability to create the space and time to evaluate the options and execute well and Paddy's bang the ball onto his boot style is notable.
I think the kid needs to be given proper game time to develop this. Unfair he gets sub position time and again then dropped then back as sub and is supposed to just fit straight in. He’s not a seasoned older player that could do that, he’s a kid that in my view has just not been given a proper full go of it.
Haven't watched the game yet but TDK had 5 more hitouts than Lycett only and one more possession. Port actually won the clearances....not sure how that equates to TDK being the ruck messiah and Pittonet spending his years in the twos.
Difference via the stats seemed to be Jack in that role of part time ruck and forward which supports Kruddlers theories more of one specialist ruck and a part timer being adequate for the modern game.
Eb this is where stats tell part of a story but watching the game is where you judge a players value from. TDK was an influence at important moments and overall was a great contributor and give him 2-3 years and he will very much be in the Gawn mold of footballer.
Will be a loss if we cant retain him but unfortunately the market dictates his worth which for the moment is skewed towards what he is very likely to become in a few years time.
Pit is a back up ruckman at best IMO and not a first ruck and as i said i would prefer to play 2 mobile part time rucks then Pit as we look so much slower when Pit in rucking and lose a player around the ground as well.
Harry just told channel 9 walking in to get scanned the dreaded ACL has been ruled out. They are hoping it may just be bone bruising
That would top the weekend off nicely if thats the outcome!
Maybe for once the footy gods are being nice to us
Haven't watched the game yet but TDK had 5 more hitouts than Lycett only and one more possession. Port actually won the clearances....not sure how that equates to TDK being the ruck messiah and Pittonet spending his years in the twos.
Difference via the stats seemed to be Jack in that role of part time ruck and forward which supports Kruddlers theories more of one specialist ruck and a part timer being adequate for the modern game.
TDKs ruckwork was good, without being outstanding. He had 11 HTA which is above average, even if his opponents were below average.
Around the ground he again was good without being great. He was not the reason we won by any stretch of the imagination, but he played better than usual.....but so did everyone else out there. I don't think you could point the finger at anyone for having a poor game. Obviously Harry went off very early, Dow came on as the sub and was perhaps our 'worst' contributor, but everyone else played very solid as well. 21 contributors.
Only 13 touches which is a couple above his average for the year.
Obviously Jack in the backup role has received plenty of praise, 4 goals, 19 touches and a massive 11 score involvements is what we expect from a backup ruck option. Clearly helped a bit by Harry going down, but he kiced the first 2 of the match before that even occurred.
Comparing the 2 showed TDK doing 4 times as much ruckwork, but getting less marks (and contested marks), possessions, tackles, score involvements, intercept possessions etc etc etc
Not taking anything away from TDK, as i said he played well, but i don't think he did anything to warrant the praise he is getting. Its the first step in a long journey. Jack on the otherhand was close to BOG, if not BOG.
TDKs ruckwork was good, without being outstanding. He had 11 HTA which is above average, even if his opponents were below average.
Around the ground he again was good without being great. He was not the reason we won by any stretch of the imagination, but he played better than usual.....but so did everyone else out there. I don't think you could point the finger at anyone for having a poor game. Obviously Harry went off very early, Dow came on as the sub and was perhaps our 'worst' contributor, but everyone else played very solid as well. 21 contributors.
Only 13 touches which is a couple above his average for the year.
Obviously Jack in the backup role has received plenty of praise, 4 goals, 19 touches and a massive 11 score involvements is what we expect from a backup ruck option. Clearly helped a bit by Harry going down, but he kiced the first 2 of the match before that even occurred.
Comparing the 2 showed TDK doing 4 times as much ruckwork, but getting less marks (and contested marks), possessions, tackles, score involvements, intercept possessions etc etc etc
Not taking anything away from TDK, as i said he played well, but i don't think he did anything to warrant the praise he is getting. Its the first step in a long journey. Jack on the otherhand was close to BOG, if not BOG.
Jack played most of the game as a key forward, and he excelled in that role. Tom played most of the game as a ruckman, and he excelled in that role.
Jack played most of the game as a key forward, and he excelled in that role. Tom played most of the game as a ruckman, and he excelled in that role.
You've set a low bar for 'excelling'.
As i said, good, not great.
You've set a low bar for 'excelling'.
As i said, good, not great.
Jack was the better player on the day, but Tom was also very good...and there's a good chance he'll only improve with game time and responsibility.
Deny him that and we'll never know...at least in Navy Blue.
Not an issue while Pittonet's not available....and McKay doesn't play.
More an issue with a full team to choose from.
Right now we're playing our best football of the year with Pittonet not there.
Jack was best on ground, Tom was in the top half a dozen.
When you do an ACL, you can still walk in a straight line. It's moving sideways is the problem. I thought it looked like the knee was stiffening up as he walked across the ground. We will only know after the scan tomorrow.
I strained my medial many moons ago, finished off the game limping all be it. Once I cooled down, I couldn't straighten my leg and could barely walk. It was diagnosed later as a grade 3 strain, was very ordinary for 3-4 weeks, then the pain settled and I could walk ok, didn't start running again for 6 or 7 weeks from memory. Lets be clear, I was no where near the fitness of AFL level players, not on the same planet.
Jack was best on ground, Tom was in the top half a dozen.
Credit where credit is due, Tom and Jack where bloody mighty yesterday. Jack brought the expected Silvagni effort and aggression was well as hitting the scoreboard. Tommy D made Lycett look silly.
Eb this is where stats tell part of a story but watching the game is where you judge a players value from. TDK was an influence at important moments and overall was a great contributor and give him 2-3 years and he will very much be in the Gawn mold of footballer.
Will be a loss if we cant retain him but unfortunately the market dictates his worth which for the moment is skewed towards what he is very likely to become in a few years time.
Pit is a back up ruckman at best IMO and not a first ruck and as i said i would prefer to play 2 mobile part time rucks then Pit as we look so much slower when Pit in rucking and lose a player around the ground as well.
Shawny...Im not as sold on TDK like everyone else and certainly not prepared to pay big dollars based on down the track promise.
I see Melb and Freo with Grundy and Jackson and then look at Geelong last year and Collingwood this season and think why does any club need to be paying ruckman a fortune
I will watch the game probably tomorrow and check out the ruck battles but I just see ruckman as minor pieces on the chess board and would prefer we spent our money elsewhere.
Jack played most of the game as a key forward, and he excelled in that role. Tom played most of the game as a ruckman, and he excelled in that role.
We often struggle to find a regular role for Jack. Having one in McKay's place will really help him.
Shawny...Im not as sold on TDK like everyone else and certainly not prepared to pay big dollars based on down the track promise.
I see Melb and Freo with Grundy and Jackson and then look at Geelong last year and Collingwood this season and think why does any club need to be paying ruckman a fortune
I will watch the game probably tomorrow and check out the ruck battles but I just see ruckman as minor pieces on the chess board and would prefer we spent our money elsewhere.
Ruckmen need to be very good around the ground too, like Gawn the other night. Then they are worth a decent dollar. Other than that someone like Pittonet does the job.
Whateley reckons Grundy won't be at Melbourne next year. Interesting to see if he is right. Was the all-time dumb decision to go there in the first place. Two first rucks don't often work unless they can proficiently play forward too, as they'll be spending alot of time there. Even in the old days of Nicholls and Jones they were both very good up forward. In the days of unlimited interchange you could play 2 first rucks and just change them off the bench. Not now. The was a reason Kreuzer and Casboult were a good combination. Kreuzer did a good job gathering touches around the ground and could kick a goal if needed. Casboult was a forward ruck, who, despite his limitations, often hit the scoreboard, wrong part of it at times, but turned out quite a proficient ruckman as well together with his handy marking around the ground. Soon as Kreuzer played with Phillips his game went to crap near every time.
Shawny...Im not as sold on TDK like everyone else and certainly not prepared to pay big dollars based on down the track promise.
I see Melb and Freo with Grundy and Jackson and then look at Geelong last year and Collingwood this season and think why does any club need to be paying ruckman a fortune
I will watch the game probably tomorrow and check out the ruck battles but I just see ruckman as minor pieces on the chess board and would prefer we spent our money elsewhere.
I don’t disagree with any of that. My point is there is no comparison between Pitt and TDK.
What TDK is worth is another discussion but I do understand why TDK is getting the big offers while Pitt committed to 4 years on average coin. It’s pretty obvious imo.
I don’t disagree with any of that. My point is there is no comparison between Pitt and TDK.
What TDK is worth is another discussion but I do understand why TDK is getting the big offers while Pitt committed to 4 years on average coin. It’s pretty obvious imo.
Not sure what fans have against TDK, some hate that he's attracting big coin, others hate that he is often competing with a Silvagni for a spot in the match day squad.
I think it's unfair to compare Pitto and TDK, very very different players, Pitto is more like Lycett last night, TDK is more Gawn / Jackson like. I don't understand how fans don't see the difference and how they compliment each other, and of course there will be games when we should only play one or the other with a SoJ or Young backup.
On the stats, there are empty stats and then there are quality stats, I don't care how some want to negatively spin his stats TDK was in quality overload last night!
Only having Pitto makes us much too easy to plan against in my opinion, it pigeon holes our team tactically, a lot the fan debate argues like there is a definitive right or wrong way when it's nothing of the sort, it's horses for courses. Make the wrong choice on biggest day of the year and a squad that has the either / or like Melbourne or even more options like Geelong can ruin your day!
Nice post LP. I generally agree.
Our pressure won the game yesterdayand really it's been the difference for the last 4 weeks. TDK showed he belonged out there with 6 tackles.
Ruckmen need to be very good around the ground too, like Gawn the other night. Then they are worth a decent dollar. Other than that someone like Pittonet does the job.
Whateley reckons Grundy won't be at Melbourne next year. Interesting to see if he is right. Was the all-time dumb decision to go there in the first place. Two first rucks don't often work unless they can proficiently play forward too, as they'll be spending alot of time there. Even in the old days of Nicholls and Jones they were both very good up forward. In the days of unlimited interchange you could play 2 first rucks and just change them off the bench. Not now. The was a reason Kreuzer and Casboult were a good combination. Kreuzer did a good job gathering touches around the ground and could kick a goal if needed. Casboult was a forward ruck, who, despite his limitations, often hit the scoreboard, wrong part of it at times, but turned out quite a proficient ruckman as well together with his handy marking around the ground. Soon as Kreuzer played with Phillips his game went to crap near every time.
Marc doesn't get a lot of marks, or possessions generally, but he usually makes it difficult for his opponent to get them. The sort of guy he struggles with around the ground is a guy lime English, who is pretty damned mobile for a big man. But, even then, Pitto gives a contest.
Pitto's strength is his strength in the ruck contest, and his ability to aim his taps pretty well.
Marc doesn't get a lot of marks, or possessions generally, but he usually makes it difficult for his opponent to get them. The sort of guy he struggles with around the ground is a guy lime English, who is pretty damned mobile for a big man. But, even then, Pitto gives a contest.
Pitto's strength is his strength in the ruck contest, and his ability to aim his taps pretty well.
Pitto doesn't get a lot around the ground because we have better options to kick too.
He generally lines up in the back half so he is not part of the contest when going forward.
His defensive efforts are pretty good though. He doesn't get outmarked often and is decent with a punch. There was a game a few weeks ago where he ran 30m to make a spoil on about the HBF near the start of a match. If you can stop your opponent being a target, thats as good as you being a target.
Besides his tapwork, his best attribute is his aggression. As good as our big men are, none of them really have any aggression in them naturally. Jack is probably the best of the rest, but Harry, Charlie, Weiters, Young, TDK....don't have that aggression that you want from a big man. Our mids walk taller when Pitto is around.
Where do we go from here? Who knows. We'll cross that bridge when we get 2 fit rucks to choose from......and a fit Harry as well.
I thought when he first came on Dow was OK, but re-watch the first 5mins of the 2nd or 3rd quarter and you'll see why Dow struggles to get a regular game.
There is are several periods of play where he just doesn't chase with any intensity, from the stoppage Dow trails behind an opponent he could easily catch, leaving team-mates to run past him to do the heavy work, and it's only the first few minutes of the quarter. Even if he couldn't catch he should still be exerting some pressure instead of leaving an opponent have an easy disposal.
In another passage of play, Dow trails an opponent again which is perhaps OK maybe the opponent is too quick, except Cripps runs past Dow and tackles the opponent!
That is the exact opposite of how everybody else in the team is playing, everybody else is all in instantly.
Why Dow is like this is a mystery, he no longer naturally hunts the footy, it seems he needs to be forced to do so!
My mate I go to the footy with says when this happens Dow is having another "rabbit in the headlights" moment, to me it looks like Dow has to think about what to do next, instead of just doing it.
That's it in a nutshell plus he's apparently not a fast thinker because he rarely chases with intensity.
Just as an aside...
I actually don't mind Boyd.
He's a bit of a goer and applies pressure.
There's a bit of mongrel about him and he actually gets under the skin of the opposition.
(Watch how often they want to thump him)
:D
He's not a big accumulator averaging around 12 a game, but Boyd is usually one of our more efficient disposers of the ball....he runs up around 80% effective.
On the weekend he had another dozen, but was down around the 50% effective.
When your strength is not a strength and you don't have a lot of other tricks you might struggle to hold your place.
It will be interesting to see if we appeal if things don't go his way at the tribunal.
Georgie had five tackles to Paddy's zip and 19 possessions (10 contested) at 74% to Paddy's 14 at 53%. The only positive for Paddy was the cheers from the crowd when he got a touch.
If Paddy is to command a regular spot in the 22, he has to lift his defensive intensity and improve his decision-making. Cuningham didn't have a great game but the contrast between his ability to create the space and time to evaluate the options and execute well and Paddy's bang the ball onto his boot style is notable.
Got it in one, David. Decision making. He has the attributes, physically. But instinctual decision making (aka footy IQ) seems to be the troublesome area.
I like Boyd; he provides different attributes to our defence, works his butt off and generally gets the job done.
Every so often he shanks what should be a regulation kick. He’s not Robinson Crusoe in that but it’s more of an issue when you’re in the team for your ability to hit targets.
Boyd’s lack of experience is noticeable at times, particularly when he gives opponents too much latitude, generally by getting his positioning wrong.
On Saturday he stopped on the whistle and gave his opponent an uncontested mark when the umpire called advantage. A simple mistake but probably not one most of his teammates would make.
I think that Boyd deserves his place in the 22 and our defence is better with him there. I’m sure that he’s working hard to eliminate the miskicks and Sammy Hamill will be trying to address those errors of judgement.
I suspect that he’ll miss a week or two and it will be interesting to see whether he comes straight back in or has to work for his spot in the VFL.
Not a fan of Boyd and I want to see Cowan in the team and getting experience.
The latter is a good kick too and has more flair and upside. Boyd is a Joe average VFL player imo and I just don't see what others see in him unlike Cowan who I think is a terrific prospect for the future.
I actually thought Charlie looked better and more dangerous after H got injured. This raises the question as to how we should structure our fwd set up when H returns and going forward. Imo I think we should look at keeping a lot more separation in order to stretch opposition defences and minimize the times they are both flying for the same mark.
I actually thought Charlie looked better and more dangerous after H got injured. This raises the question as to how we should structure our fwd set up when H returns and going forward. Imo I think we should look at keeping a lot more separation in order to stretch opposition defences and minimize the times they are both flying for the same mark.
Agree Charlie and Harry needs some separation and I'd be playing another tall to replace Harry down forward so we keep to the same formula and working on that strategy so when he comes back the game plan is still the same.
I think Lemmey could be given some games to try and replicate how Harry operates and I like the idea of still stretching teams having to find multiple taller defenders. West Coast would be a nice intro for the kid vs average opposition and I think these injuries to key players create opportunities and are where you build depth for the future.
There be more than one or two members on this forum laughing loudly at the irony of Jordan Boyd potentially being our "Enforcer" type! ;D
Not a fan of Boyd and I want to see Cowan in the team and getting experience.
The latter is a good kick too and has more flair and upside. Boyd is a Joe average VFL player imo and I just don't see what others see in him unlike Cowan who I think is a terrific prospect for the future.
I was probably Boyds biggest critic, but i've got to pull you up on that one EB.
Cowans kicking is a long way behind Boyds kicking.
At 18, every kid in the system is a "terrific prospect"
Being older Boyd is a little stronger than say Cowan, for now.
I was probably Boyds biggest critic, but i've got to pull you up on that one EB.
Cowans kicking is a long way behind Boyds kicking.
We don't want to fall into the trap of playing too many developing players all at once, surely we've learnt that lesson now!
I'm still not yet sold of Motlop being "AFL ready", he had a day out being in the right place at the right moment for some Joe the Goose moments, and much like Dow there were moments Motlop was just spectating sprinkled with a couple of good moments in between. Better sides make those uncomfortable / hesitant circumstances happen all the time, and if you've got too many newbies it hurts the team big time.
Agree Charlie and Harry needs some separation and I'd be playing another tall to replace Harry down forward so we keep to the same formula and working on that strategy so when he comes back the game plan is still the same.
I think Lemmey could be given some games to try and replicate how Harry operates and I like the idea of still stretching teams having to find multiple taller defenders. West Coast would be a nice intro for the kid vs average opposition and I think these injuries to key players create opportunities and are where you build depth for the future.
I've flagged on a couple occassions that we have too many talls and it hurts our team balance. Most of this is based around the 2 rucks being surplus, but i have also floated the idea of Harry being the 'other' option.
In an alternate universe, i could see us with Charlie, TDK and Jack as our forwards with Pittonet as ruck. Obviously alternating with TDK (or even Jack depending on how well TDK develops as a forward). That gives us the same amount of flexibility/versatility that we require with our forward/ruck combo.
If someone wanted to offer the farm for Harry, i'd entertain it.
Just pointing it out, but I find it ironic that for all his supposed issues, Hewitt has pretty similar stats, TOG etc to Dow but seems an accepted first 23 player. But Dow is "a problem" ? We lose a key foward in the first ten minutes, and hidden in an the euphoria around JSoS and Mots is a bloke who had a staggering 9 possessions when we needed a senior player to step up, in a game where we had significant quality ball forward of centre.
I wasn't Boyd's biggest fan when he came in but he has settled. Like Cincotta he is fast which has taken the pressure off of Saad having to guard all the quick forwards.
Just pointing it out, but I find it ironic that for all his supposed issues, Hewitt has pretty similar stats, TOG etc to Dow but seems an accepted first 23 player. But Dow is "a problem" ? We lose a key foward in the first ten minutes, and hidden in an the euphoria around JSoS and Mots is a bloke who had a staggering 9 possessions when we needed a senior player to step up, in a game where we had significant quality ball forward of centre.
I'm not sure what you are saying here and/or if you have your wires crossed.
Hewitt had 19 touches.
Cerra who has been in AA form had 17.
The only player on the list who had 9 was Jack Martin. He kicked a goal and had 2 contested marks and 7 score involvements.
Who are you taking a shot at??
Just pointing it out, but I find it ironic that for all his supposed issues, Hewitt has pretty similar stats, TOG etc to Dow but seems an accepted first 23 player. But Dow is "a problem" ? We lose a key foward in the first ten minutes, and hidden in an the euphoria around JSoS and Mots is a bloke who had a staggering 9 possessions when we needed a senior player to step up, in a game where we had significant quality ball forward of centre.
Hewett had 19 possessions and goes at 100% even when he is busted, and he plays a very strong sacrificial game style that then allows guys like Walsh, Cerra and Cripps off the hook.
Motlop had 10 and Martin had 9, but nobody would say Motlop and Martin didn't influence the result, possession counts can be a misdirection when you are moving the ball efficiently.
You can't have too many Chiefs, if you do they start getting in each others way!
I wasn't Boyd's biggest fan when he came in but he has settled. Like Cincotta he is fast which has taken the pressure off of Saad having to guard all the quick forwards.
Agreed, before Boyd and Cincotta came in the opposition could plan for us like we came complete with an operators manual, now we have options a plenty and if right is covered we go left.
The last three or four weeks, there has always been two or three running past to receive, our overlap run stats must have gone through the roof! Most of it is Boyd, Cincotta, Saad, Doc, Cottrell and the Mids, but as confidence grows we've even started seeing Weiters and Gov get involved!
Agreed, before Boyd and Cincotta came in the opposition could plan for use like we came complete with an operators manual, now we have options a plenty and if right is covered we go left.
The last three or four weeks, there has always been two or three running past to receive, our overlap run stats must have gone through the roof! Most of it is Boyd, Cincotta, Saad, Doc, Cottrell and the Mids, but as confidence grows we've even started seeing Weiters and Gov get involved!
The last 3 or 4 weeks happen to coincide with introducing Cuningham and Martin into the side. ;)
Cunners has a perfect 4-0 record.
There was a stat last week that dhowed in the last month Weitering is 3rd in the comp for intercept marks. Prior to that he was forty something?
The last 3 or 4 weeks happen to coincide with introducing Cuningham and Martin into the side. ;)
Cunners has a perfect 4-0 record.
The older heads hold their width to get involved at the right moment, they don't get sucked into play like the kiddies.
The last 3 or 4 weeks happen to coincide with introducing Cuningham and Martin into the side. ;)
Cunners has a perfect 4-0 record.
And Fogarty.
At 18, every kid in the system is a "terrific prospect"
Being older Boyd is a little stronger than say Cowan, for now.
We traded up to get Cowan in the draft, he is he 6cm taller and marginally heavier.
Imo Cowan can play on a greater range of players and the other bloke is a poor man's Caleb Daniel minus the headgear who is limited because of his size.
You look at Kemp and he needed consistent senior footy to make the jump...you wear a few bad games to get the final developed product and I see the same in Cowan. I don't see Boyd ever being more than a good ordinary player.
At 18, every kid in the system is a "terrific prospect"
Being older Boyd is a little stronger than say Cowan, for now.
Yep agreed, experience counts, guys get it from being in the system long enough, learning the drills, the Handbaggers do it better than most and guys like Cowans barely play a game in AFL for the first 2 or 3 seasons.
The kiddies aren't the messiah.
Last weekend we can all claim Motlop had a good game, but put a second newbie in there, and the story book might have changed drastically, you just can't carry them in AFL like you can in VFL.
With two or more newbies playing AFL any decent opposition will have a spare player almost 100% of the time!
We traded up to get Cowan in the draft, he is he 6cm taller and marginally heavier.
Imo Cowan can play on a greater range of players and the other bloke is a poor man's Caleb Daniel minus the headgear who is limited because of his size.
You look at Kemp and he needed consistent senior footy to make the jump...you wear a few bad games to get the final developed product and I see the same in Cowan. I don't see Boyd ever being more than a good ordinary player.
Its not that I disagree with you but I'm happy for Cowan to either force his way in or come in for injury.
Weight is not always strength either.
Last weekends result should be a lesson to all AFL coaches, that reinforces how important the system is in AFL, and not so much the talent.
Port paid a high price for making so many changes, forced or otherwise.
They defeated us in many keys stats, especially i50s, they still had a lot of talent on the park yet they lost because they suffered a system failure.
We don't want to fall into the trap of playing too many developing players all at once, surely we've learnt that lesson now!
I'm still not yet sold of Motlop being "AFL ready", he had a day out being in the right place at the right moment for some Joe the Goose moments, and much like Dow there were moments Motlop was just spectating sprinkled with a couple of good moments in between. Better sides make those uncomfortable / hesitant circumstances happen all the time, and if you've got too many newbies it hurts the team big time.
None of Jesse's goals came from Joe the Goose moments, one was from very good positioning and body work against a bigger opponent, one was from getting into the corridor for a handball receive and the other two were from classic, front and centre crumbing.
I'm still thinking about my votes but Jesse is in the mix. However, I'd have him back in the VFL next week if Owies is good to go, or perhaps I'd have him as the sub. Jesse still has a bit to work on before he's assured of a place in the 22.
What I'm seeing both forward and back is that we're developing a degree of diversity.
It's strange because the with a 'one man out, one man in philosophy' you'd be looking more at 'like for like'.
But have a look at our small forwards.
Durdin, Owies and Motlop all bring different strengths (and limitations)
Martin, Cunningham, Fogarty and Silvagni provide differences of both an offensive and defensive nature.
Add the two key forwards and they're all complementing one another to make a much more effective and varied forward line.
Saad, Williams (not there at the moment) and Docherty (also playing more wing) are those attacking half-backs but you need some defending types as well.
McGovern provides the intercept role.
Newman, Kemp, Boyd all add different features (Shut down capability, defensive pressure, but also capable of switching to attacking roles)...and with Weitering as the centre piece you have a strong diverse backline.
The fact that some players are capable of filling or developing at multiple roles adds to the variety.
Then you have Cottrell (forward of wing), and Acres ( often defensive side of wing) chiming in to support where needed.
I remember not too long ago there was some complaint about the sameness of players, especially in the midfield, but it looks like variety is a work in progress...and harder for opposition to match up on.
Finally took a big scalp and with some serious venom too.
I haven't seen the game in full as I was working till 5:00pm on Saturday but did catch most of the last quarter, game was done 7 dusted by the time I tuned in.
Have to wonder if the injury to McKay will be a blessing in disguise ?? I'm not suggesting anything sinister here, just that in his absence, other players will have to step up and carry some of his workload as well. Will be interesting to see (a) if that happens & (b) who it is that does the extra lifting ??
Thought I'd give a big shout out to Gov. A much maligned player however despite his shortfalls, he has show in recent weeks that he is a critical cog in our defence. Ill take the occasional brain fade give all the positives he has shown lately.
I liken to Weiters, Gov and Kemp to Batman, Robin and Alfred. Kemp is Robin, not sure yet which of the other two is Batman or Alfred.
I don't think McKay's injury is any kind of blessing. We have a dearth of big men as it is : Silvagni cannot keep his workload and great recent form going long term, Pittonet is injured, De Koning is possibly on the way out, Charlie Curnow's injury history is well known, and there's no one in the 2's that is AFL ready, at least that I can see. We need to spread the load as widely as possible, not fewer players having to over compensate for injured team mates.
Harry's injury is bad news all round IMO.
Have to wonder if the injury to McKay will be a blessing in disguise ?? I'm not suggesting anything sinister here, just that in his absence, other players will have to step up and carry some of his workload as well. Will be interesting to see (a) if that happens & (b) who it is that does the extra lifting ??
I thought before he got injured BigH was looking in better form / touch on the day than Charlie, so I think fans should not read too much into the result after BigH got injured.
Gees I'd be careful wording up MacG too much - he was very good on the weekend but when he's bad, he is an awful liability.
Gees I'd be careful wording up MacG too much - he was very good on the weekend but when he's bad, he is an awful liability.
Fair enough, I think his best far outweighs his worst.
Gees I'd be careful wording up MacG too much - he was very good on the weekend but when he's bad, he is an awful liability.
I think the whole team was off when Gov last had a bad day. He's been remarkably consistent (and fit) this season ... end of contract boost?
I think the whole team was off when Gov last had a bad day. He's been remarkably consistent (and fit) this season ... end of contract boost?
RE his contract, I'd be wary about offering him another fat one, I'm led to believe his isn't chasing big coin and prefers to remain with us.
RE his contract, I'd be wary about offering him another fat one, I'm led to believe his isn't chasing big coin and prefers to remain with us.
No other club wants him is the rumour and his management have been told he will have to wait until seasons end, I presume that means when the club have sorted out all the money with regards in and outs. He certainly wont be on big money especially if we are handing out big deals to the likes of Gresham, B.Mckay or TDK.
Im 50/50 on McGovern, his form has improved and he has managed to stay on the park but Id only consider him after signing all the other important players I wanted to keep and I wouldnt be losing Jack Silvagni for example by having to offer him unders to keep the likes of McGovern.
No other club wants him is the rumour and his management have been told he will have to wait until seasons end, I presume that means when the club have sorted out all the money with regards in and outs. He certainly wont be on big money especially if we are handing out big deals to the likes of Gresham, B.Mckay or TDK.
Im 50/50 on McGovern, his form has improved and he has managed to stay on the park but Id only consider him after signing all the other important players I wanted to keep and I wouldnt be losing Jack Silvagni for example by having to offer him unders to keep the likes of McGovern.
I'd be keeping McGovern.
I'd be keeping Silvagni.
I'd even be keeping Marchbank.
We have enough blokes who we should look at cutting first IMO.
Coaches' votes :
10 Jack Silvagni (CARL)
8 Patrick Cripps (CARL)
6 Dan Houston (PORT)
2 Tom De Koning (CARL)
2 Charlie Curnow (CARL)
2 Nicholas Newman (CARL)
I actually thought Charlie looked better and more dangerous after H got injured. This raises the question as to how we should structure our fwd set up when H returns and going forward. Imo I think we should look at keeping a lot more separation in order to stretch opposition defences and minimize the times they are both flying for the same mark.
If i remember correctly when Harry got injured last year Charlie came out of his shell and and started to lead the Coleman kicking a few bags. Will be interesting to see how he goes over the next few weeks without his partner in crime.
I'd be keeping McGovern.
I'd be keeping Silvagni.
I'd even be keeping Marchbank.
We have enough blokes who we should look at cutting first IMO.
Kemp, McGovern and Marchbank are too alike for me so I wouldnt be keeping Marchbank especially if Ben McKay was on the way in.
Kemp, McGovern and Marchbank are too alike for me so I wouldnt be keeping Marchbank especially if Ben McKay was on the way in.
Too alike....perhaps....but better than any 18yo kid coming in.
Kemp, McGovern and Marchbank are too alike for me so I wouldnt be keeping Marchbank especially if Ben McKay was on the way in.
I’d say that they have very different skill sets, although Kemp and McGovern both have the ability to compete in the air with taller opponents, and both can play as forwards if required. Kemp is harder at the contest and has the step and toe to break the lines.
Marchbank’s go is reading the play and taking intercept marks. He doesn’t have the physicality of Kemp or the hops of McGovern.
McGovern’s form, and the improvement in our defence when he’s in the mix, provides a solid case for an extension. I don’t buy the scuttlebut about no other clubs being interested but it seems that his preference is to stay in navy blue … and why wouldn’t that be the case?
Marchbank is a conundrum. His best footy is very good, but can he stay on the park? Do we persevere or cut our losses? I’d be inclined to keep him on to see if we can recoup some of our investment in him over several seasons.
I can’t see how we’d have any interest in Ben McKay, or the means to get him across.
What does all of that mean for Plowman? I’d move him to the rookie list as depth and to continue to stiffen up our VFL backline.
I’d say that they have very different skill sets, although Kemp and McGovern both have the ability to compete in the air with taller opponents, and both can play as forwards if required. Kemp is harder at the contest and has the step and toe to break the lines.
Marchbank’s go is reading the play and taking intercept marks. He doesn’t have the physicality of Kemp or the hops of McGovern.
McGovern’s form, and the improvement in our defence when he’s in the mix, provides a solid case for an extension. I don’t buy the scuttlebut about no other clubs being interested but it seems that his preference is to stay in navy blue … and why wouldn’t that be the case?
Marchbank is a conundrum. His best footy is very good, but can he stay on the park? Do we persevere or cut our losses? I’d be inclined to keep him on to see if we can recoup some of our investment in him over several seasons.
I can’t see how we’d have any interest in Ben McKay, or the means to get him across.
What does all of that mean for Plowman? I’d move him to the rookie list as depth and to continue to stiffen up our VFL backline.
Ben Mckay is a free agent so its about the money only, it was Cal Twomey from memory who said there was no interest in McGovern from other clubs and he usually gets good info on player movements. Youngs loss of form and physicality has probably garnered some interest in Ben Mckay, there is only Sam Durdin in reserve in terms of tall KP specialists defenders and if we lost Weitering we would be very vulnerable. Im no fan of any mega deals for Ben Mckay and dont rate him highly.
Cant see Plowman being retained, watched him and Marchbank play together a while back and both looked very slow.
Not a fan of Boyd and I want to see Cowan in the team and getting experience.
The latter is a good kick too and has more flair and upside. Boyd is a Joe average VFL player imo and I just don't see what others see in him unlike Cowan who I think is a terrific prospect for the future.
Cincotta has Cowan’s spot, not Boyd.
Boyd is a small defender with the speed and agility to go with most small forwards. He can also compete against taller opponents but he’s in the team because he can drill passes (most of the time) and break the lines. He also seems to be the sort of annoying defender that opponents like to belt. If I remember correctly, Toby Greene was one forward who felt the need to belt Boyd … and give us an advantage.
Cowan has had a taste of AFL footy and is thriving in the VFL. He’s a long term prospect who deserves careful development. However, it’s pretty clear that our current group of defenders, with Kemp, Cincotta and Boyd, is working more effectively than the defensive rotation we went with earlier in the season.
There’s a lot of water still to flow under the bridge but I think that Curly’s boy has nailed a relatively rare state league selection with Boyd.
There’s a lot of water still to flow under the bridge but I think that Curly’s boy has nailed a relatively rare state league selection with Boyd.
Yep, got to give Boyd credit, even when things weren't going so well he looked to be improving with every game.
Still has the odd bad disposal, one I recall from last weekend was Barry Crocker, but generally he's above average for our squad and despite his relatively small stature he attacks the footy without hesitation. That is about all we can ask for a small defender.
Besides his tapwork, his best attribute is his aggression. As good as our big men are, none of them really have any aggression in them naturally. Jack is probably the best of the rest, but Harry, Charlie, Weiters, Young, TDK....don't have that aggression that you want from a big man. Our mids walk taller when Pitto is around.
Do you really believe that?
Pitto is one of the least aggressive big men going around and our midfielders don’t need him to “walk tall”.
We may not have snipers or thugs but we have more than our share of players who don’t take a backward step in the face of opposition aggression and quite a few who don’t mind dishing it out.
Do you really believe that?
Pitto is one of the least aggressive big men going around and our midfielders don’t need him to “walk tall”.
We may not have snipers or thugs but we have more than our share of players who don’t take a backward step in the face of opposition aggression and quite a few who don’t mind dishing it out.
I think we'll agree to disagree on this one.
Pitto and SoJ - The Enforcer Twins! ;D
Mumford and Nankervis must be shaking in their boots, wouldn't want to be them!
Pitto and SoJ - The Enforcer Twins! ;D
Mumford and Nankervis must be shaking in their boots, wouldn't want to be them!
And do you think SOS or Pitto would be scared of those to Muppets? Yeah right.
Game has changed, enforcers have been forced out of the game with all the cameras and media scrutiny.
You can't tackle or bump to the extent you could either and it's really a TV game now that has to look good and be free of the old fashioned physicality.
It's becoming more common to see players pull out of contests and a lot of the heavy contact is more accidental than planned and you don't find players evening up with others anymore as it's too costly in terms of free kicks/ easy goals.
Josh Rachele was highlighted for his aggressive reactive actions but it was all fresh air and bravado but zero contact or impact.
Dinosaurs like Mumford our now extinct ...
Game has changed, enforcers have been forced out of the game with all the cameras and media scrutiny.
You can't tackle or bump to the extent you could either and it's really a TV game now that has to look good and be free of the old fashioned physicality.
It's becoming more common to see players pull out of contests and a lot of the heavy contact is more accidental than planned and you don't find players evening up with others anymore as it's too costly in terms of free kicks/ easy goals.
Josh Rachele was highlighted for his aggressive reactive actions but it was all fresh air and bravado but zero contact or impact.
Dinosaurs like Mumford our now extinct ...
Nailed it EB; the consequences of thuggery and/or retaliation are too great nowadays and any decent hits are generally the result of very infrequent brain snaps. It’s also commonplace for players to have friends and family among the opposition. That wasn’t the case back in the days of the king hits and all in punch ups - although Big Nick and Polly Farmer used to go to the races together after belting the bejesus out of each other 🙄
However, there’s still an element of physical intimidation and looking after your mates. Weitering was incredibly quick to get to Boyd after Byrne-Jones’ flop had a few of Port’s players agitated.
But it's apparently still ok to elbow people off the ball
But it's apparently still ok to elbow people off the ball
Dusty is an AFL marquee brand player like Buddy and a few others and the star player discount applies......Witherden got up and continued which always lightens the impact in the eyes of the MRP.
I think there should be penalties for that type of behaviour but star players in most sports get away with that stuff. His mate Cotchin is another name player who thinks he can snipe other players and get away with it as well.
It is ludicrous Boyd gets three for a over zealous tackle at worst and these other name players get nothing for deliberate strikes...no fines, suspended penalties etc...
A lot of fans on here were potting Boyd just a few days ago, now they are complaining he's been rogered!
Personally I'll be very disappointed if the club doesn't appeal, it's not about guilt or innocence, it's about sending a message that we will stick by our players and make sure they are treated justly!
I'm also shocked but not surprised the AFLPA hasn't had something to say about this because it is becoming untenable, but it's all about long term legal liability, there will be lawyers and legal advocates whispering in ears everywhere, beware the future, beware the future. Yet you wouldn't be at all shocked to find the very same lawyers running a civil concussion case in a few years, such is their nature!
A lot of fans on here were potting Boyd just a few days ago, now they are complaining he's been rogered!
Personally I'll be very disappointed if the club doesn't appeal, it's not about guilt or innocence, it's about sending a message that we will stick by our players and make sure they are treated justly!
I'm also shocked but not surprised the AFLPA hasn't had something to say about this because it is becoming untenable, but it's all about long term legal liability, there will be lawyers and legal advocates whispering in ears everywhere, beware the future, beware the future. Yet you wouldn't be at all shocked to find the very same lawyers running a civil concussion case in a few years, such is their nature!
I'm not a fan of Boyd the player but this was an unfair penalty and the club should appeal. 3 weeks for that tackle is overs but that's the rub of the green for
no name players compared to a name or marquee player and that's my main gripe.
No way is Petracca, N. Daicos ,or Cripps getting 3 weeks for that tackle...
A lot of fans on here were potting Boyd just a few days ago, now they are complaining he's been rogered!
Personally I'll be very disappointed if the club doesn't appeal, it's not about guilt or innocence, it's about sending a message that we will stick by our players and make sure they are treated justly!
I'm also shocked but not surprised the AFLPA hasn't had something to say about this because it is becoming untenable, but it's all about long term legal liability, there will be lawyers and legal advocates whispering in ears everywhere, beware the future, beware the future. Yet you wouldn't be at all shocked to find the very same lawyers running a civil concussion case in a few years, such is their nature!
you can think a bloke is a spud and still think he's been shafted.
I dont think he's that bad anymore. I thought he was rubbish, but he's been upgraded to serviceable.
I'm a sucker for a worker.
you can think a bloke is a spud and still think he's been shafted.
I dont think he's that bad anymore. I thought he was rubbish, but he's been upgraded to serviceable.
I'm a sucker for a worker.
True, IMO your fortunes are dictated by your bottom 6 or so players every week. If the gap between them and your top 16 or 17 is too large, youre doomed. If those bottom 6 dont pull their weight, youre doomed. We have been so even across the board in the last 4 or 5 weeks, the results speak for themselves.