The game is set for Sat 24th April at 1635 at Marvel. Hoping the Blues turn up.
I might turn up.. Hour and a half drive to the game, hour and a half drive the other way for an Eric Bogle concert. Would have gone to Bogle the night before (and only 20 minute drive) but already got the AFLW B&F tickets.
On the horns of a dilemma.
What type of Carlton will turn up?
Brisbane looked good beating Essendon, who made us look good.
Brisbane are at full strength, you look at their team and you want to look away real quick, if Weitering doesnt play its going to very hard to stop their tall marking forwards. Jones get Daniher then you are relying on undersized defenders to take on players like Hipwood and McStay. Even their smalls like Cameron and McCarthy are strong in the air too.
Down the other end they have decent size to look after McKay and Casboult too, Levi might have to play down back.
One move I would make is to tag Daniel Rich, we let him run off half back and he always ends up being the one delivering misery to us in the forward line because our forwards dont pick him up or the coaching box is too stupid to recognize the damage he does. We can win but this game needs more planning than most IMO and more consideration of the opposition players and matchups. Williams has to lift and prove he is worth the money this week, Brisbane run a few tags with Berry, Lyons, Robbo etc and its going to be harder for Cripps, Walsh etc to impact so we need to get more out of our other mids.
Hopefully Brisbane lose a few players at training etc and even up the contest a bit...
I don't know what to think other than load up and do it all again. Every game is a must win no matter who the opposition is. There should be a lot of outs but not many can come in. Stocker the obvious in. Was thinking should Doc be taken out of the backline and give him a run in the midfield?
Personally, I don't see it now and not on Saturday afternoon.
Maybe we should be looking at moving Williams to the HB line? I know shuffling deck chairs but I think he would be more value to us there atm. Try Doc in the midfield.
Maybe we should be looking at moving Williams to the HB line? I know shuffling deck chairs but I think he would be more value to us there atm. Try Doc in the midfield.
Shuffling the deck chairs is a good idea
Williams to HBF, SPS to the middle
McGovern or Casboult to FB, depending on opponent (gorilla Casboult), Jones to the wing (and second ruck)
I’d play Stocker, Cunningham & Dow for the rest of the year, sending Newnes, Murphy and Williamson to the seconds.
Must be bold
I'm close to giving up after 50+ years. Another season, another year wasted.
Our simply incredible list management team forgot to put a back up tall defender on the list, instead relying the likes of Caleb Marchbank to come good. Bzzzzzzt. Epic fail. If Weitering misses we are truly rooted. Options are.... Casboult to CHB? Cue crickets. Out of options.
Meanwhile we have systemic problems on every line.... WTF do we persist with MacGovern, WHY!?! I just don't get it. He is the laziest footballer I've ever seen. FFS, Make him earn it Teague, he's taking the pi55 that bloke. Yes, our membership money. Going to that fraud... Yep it grinds my gears. Just delist this bloke.
Marc Murphy needs to gracefully exit stage left, it's getting embarrassing. Is this bloke going to tag Rich, can't see it myself. BTW, what's the plan there Teague, let Rich run around and get 40 kicks unimpeded?
Stocker to play every game for the rest of the year, and I'd think about Carroll as well. We desperately need to inject some class into this side, we're got too many names not delivering and they need a kick in the ar5e and a run in the twos.... Time to try somebody else because the 22 were putting out each week isn't delivering.
Frustrated and extremely pissed right now.
I'm close to giving up after 50+ years. Another season, another year wasted.
Our simply incredible list management team forgot to put a back up tall defender on the list, instead relying the likes of Caleb Marchbank to come good. Bzzzzzzt. Epic fail. If Weitering misses we are truly rooted. Options are.... Casboult to CHB? Cue crickets. Out of options.
Meanwhile we have systemic problems on every line.... WTF do we persist with MacGovern, WHY!?! I just don't get it. He is the laziest footballer I've ever seen. FFS, Make him earn it Teague, he's taking the pi55 that bloke. Yes, our membership money. Going to that fraud... Yep it grinds my gears. Just delist this bloke.
Marc Murphy needs to gracefully exit stage left, it's getting embarrassing. Is this bloke going to tag Rich, can't see it myself. BTW, what's the plan there Teague, let Rich run around and get 40 kicks unimpeded?
Stocker to play every game for the rest of the year, and I'd think about Carroll as well. We desperately need to inject some class into this side, we're got too many names not delivering and they need a kick in the ar5e and a run in the twos.... Time to try somebody else because the 22 were putting out each week isn't delivering.
Frustrated and extremely pissed right now.
With the exception of Levi playing back if Weiters misses, none of the above will happen (even though much of it needs to). Stocker may get a run this week after a dominant display in the 2s, I wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't though. Carroll is injured isn't he?
Hopefully Brisbane lose a few players at training etc and even up the contest a bit...
I thought that this week and it didn’t help.
There midfield will crush ours like all the better teams will. Neale is getting his form back too so unless Ed can do a big job on him it could get ugly.
See them as harder then port was as port had a few of outs and had a few injuries during the game and we still never looked likely after quarter time.
Heart says maybe we can pull a upset off but head says no they are too strong on all lines for us.
Amazing when you look at this list to ours we started out rebuild before them. Thanks sos.
Out: Williamson, SPS
In: Stocker, Ramsay
Plowman Jones Dougherty
Saad Weitering McGovern
Newnes Cripps Ramsay
Fogarty Kennedy Williams
Betts McKay Casboult
Pittonet Curnow Walsh
Stocker, Cottrell, Gibbons, Murphy.
Cover the 3 talls from Brisbane....Daniher, McStay and Hipwood with Weitering, Jones and McGovern
Leave Plowman to pick up a smaller player
Assign Fogarty the job on Rich. Mow him down every time he goes near the pill.
Play Kennedy as our third tall up forward (he can mark overhead and he can kick straight!)
Sit Curnow on Neale all day. (If he doesn't tag and negate, there is no place for him.)
Rotate Cottrell off half back, Stocker and Gibbons on ball and Murphy relieves Williams to go on the ball.
Tag/sit on Rich or look for a new job Monday - Memo to all coaching staff. All.
Jack Carroll injured a thumb a couple of weeks back and is expected to be sidelined for 2-3 weeks.
Newnes has his limitations but IMHO, has been pretty consistent and plays a role....and has been since Round 1 last year really.
With still seemingly no depth after all these years, it's hard to see too many changes. Stocker will definitely play and hopefully at the expense of SPS who has been stinking it up all season. It's been a massive failure on successive coaches to try and turn him into a defender...play him in the midfield and if he can't cut it there, trade him out.
If Weitering misses with concussion, Daniher or Hipwood (or both) will have a field day.
Injuries have cruelled us but after all these years, we have 2 legitimate ruckman on our list....TDK who is injured and Pitto who was recruited as backup anyway. Not having a go at him as he's not the issue. We've got two legitimate key defenders and Jones is into his 30's. And a plethora of small/mids and young kids who we either haven't seen much or anything of and the ones who we have seen, aren't up to it.
Out: Williamson, SPS
In: Stocker, Ramsay
Plowman Jones Dougherty
Saad Weitering McGovern
Newnes Cripps Ramsay
Fogarty Kennedy Williams
Betts McKay Casboult
Pittonet Curnow Walsh
Stocker, Cottrell, Gibbons, Murphy.
Cover the 3 talls from Brisbane....Daniher, McStay and Hipwood with Weitering, Jones and McGovern
Leave Plowman to pick up a smaller player
Assign Fogarty the job on Rich. Mow him down every time he goes near the pill.
Play Kennedy as our third tall up forward (he can mark overhead and he can kick straight!)
Sit Curnow on Neale all day. (If he doesn't tag and negate, there is no place for him.)
Rotate Cottrell off half back, Stocker and Gibbons on ball and Murphy relieves Williams to go on the ball.
Ramsay in is a good call....nice leftie and we have to start looking at different setups with different players.
Ramsay in is a good call....nice leftie and we have to start looking at different setups with different players.
x 1000
Has Durdin featured in VFL games this year yet?
Has Durdin featured in VFL games this year yet?
Think I heard he had 9 possies and a goal from our Youtube mate who did a nice review on the game.
Looks like he needs a body of work in the VFL to get used to the different style of game in the VFL/AFL.
I'm a fan, the kid has Caleb Daniel type skills and can make it with opportunity IMHO, the SANFL is slower and less physical
so he may take a bit more time before we see him at senior level.
Cheers EB....there's not much left really....Cunningham and Stocker probably the only two up to it at the moment.
Cheers EB....there's not much left really....Cunningham and Stocker probably the only two up to it at the moment.
Surfie, I'll go with Stocker , Cuningham will probably get picked this week too but I dont have much faith in him.
Probably play a blinder vs Brisbane or Essendon then disappear for the season...I'd be making plans to make him disappear in the trade period if that trend continues.
Interesting discussion on the couch, calling for SPS and Murphy into the midfield
There are so many things we could try.....however we desperately need pace in this side. Ideas include
- Stocker to HBF or on the ball
- Dow on a wing to expose his pace
- Cunningham forward or on a wing (pace)
- SPS to the middle
- Williams to HBF or HFF
- Kennedy forward
- McGovern back
Murphy, Newnes, Williamson out and Stocker, Cunningham and Dow in. Would look something like this....
Betts McKay Kennedy
Fogarty Casboult Williams
Dow Walsh Cunningham
Stocker Weitering Saad
Docherty Jones McGovern
Pittonet Cripps SPS
Curnow, Cottrell, Gibbons, Plowman
Must try something this week and we must try and get something out of all of SPS, Dow and Stocker
If Parks were available, Plowman would be next out. Kennedy saved until Silvagni is back.
I don't really care who's out there this week - I just want to see some serious and committed effort.
We have 22 on the ground just like the other mob, and each and every player should be determined to win every contested situation they find themselves in. Make a stand!
Last time we were under the pump like this, was when Bolts was sacked and we know what happened that day. We have been coping it all week from everyone. So i would expect a much stronger showing on Saturday night.
Saying that I think Brisbane are a better team now and will be ready.
I would say Weitering will play as we have had no indication that he had been concussed then or developed any delayed concussion. He returned to the field after been given the all clear. The week before Gibbons was hit in the head, much the same way and he went off for the concussion test, returned and played last week.
SPS should play in the middle/HFF as this the role he was picked for. His best game was a 35 possession game for us playing on-ball I think a couple of years ago and everyone raved about him. So Teague and MC just do it.
Stocker to take his place at HB and use his aggro and kicking abilities to get the ball out of there and deliver it to our advantage for once.
Now I like Gibbons, don't get me wrong, but I think his disposal is so so too often. Can get it but at times is too slow and butchers it somewhat. He has a lot of friends in that category at times. He is improving and looks a bit more comfortable out there as he gets more experience.
Gov should also play down back like his brother does. I reckon he could be just as good as an intercepting player as he has good speed and good hands. Looked ok out there when he did play down back last week when Weitering was off the ground. Maybe we will see more of this as they finally pulled the trigger and played him down back.
I would persist with Kennedy and play him forward and in the middle as he has in the past. He has good hands and is an accurate kick for goal.
Not sure who will go out, but I would really like to see an improved effort, we may not win but at least show us that there is a glimmer of light at the end of the tunnel.
We persist with play young mids in defensive rolls, Pagan did it with Gibbs, SPS, Stocker the list goes on. These blokes were not drafted as defenders, why the hell don't we play to the strengths of the kids we draft instead of trying to change them into something else.
I see Stocker had 38 touches in the 2's on the weekend, off half back. Why!?
We persist with play young mids in defensive rolls, Pagan did it with Gibbs, SPS, Stocker the list goes on. These blokes were not drafted as defenders, why the hell don't we play to the strengths of the kids we draft instead of trying to change them into something else.
I see Stocker had 38 touches in the 2's on the weekend, off half back. Why!?
I agree, but i think the reason is.....there are no back pockets in the draft.
They are all mids who go back or are not good enough to be 1st string mids.
Sticker played pretty well as the sweeper/oulet player on the weekend and has done well as an inside mid as well. Must play this weekend.
I'd consider Dow or Cunners for a wing as well, shadowing McCluggage.
Time for these kids to step up.
Sticker played pretty well as the sweeper/oulet player on the weekend and has done well as an inside mid as well. Must play this weekend.
I'd consider Dow or Cunners for a wing as well, shadowing McCluggage.
Time for these kids to step up.
McCluggage is a real good player and I'd have Cottrell on him as he will sacrifice his own game to get the job done, Dow and Cuningham couldnt mind each other if they were locked together in a suitcase.
Dow and Cuningham couldnt mind each other if they were locked together in a suitcase.
;D ;D ;D
Some talk around that Jarrod Berry and Oscar McInerney are on light duties and will need to be declared fit to play. Let's hope they need one more week. Every little bit counts.
I’m expecting Liam Stocker to be in the engine room for short intervals only , the lads needs time yet , as a sweeper intercepting in the back line is we’re he’ll be positioned for most of his ground time. Has a very good leg so will give drive from HB.
Some talk around that Jarrod Berry and Oscar McInerney are on light duties and will need to be declared fit to play. Let's hope they need one more week. Every little bit counts.
Oh how the mighty have fallen.
Not to be contrary, Pauly, but personally I love it when our opposition is at its best. When we start hoping for an opponent to be affected / reduced by injuries to key personnel we're mired in loser thinking.
Oh how the mighty have fallen.
Not to be contrary, Pauly, but personally I love it when our opposition is at its best. When we start hoping for an opponent to be affected / reduced by injuries to key personnel we're mired in loser thinking.
I have to agree. I want us to beat full strength teams by preference: it tells us that WE are a team to fear.
Alas, I don't see us at the point where we can. :(
Oh how the mighty have fallen.
Not to be contrary, Pauly, but personally I love it when our opposition is at its best. When we start hoping for an opponent to be affected / reduced by injuries to key personnel we're mired in loser thinking.
I agree with the first point. The mighty have fallen, very significantly. However, IMO we have to accept where we're at, and in order to stave off any further Carlton stupidity, and heaping more unnecessary pressure on the coach, I'll take wins anywhere we can get them. Against the Lions NEAFL team, the Shepparton U/10's, anywhere. Worry about beating the best of the best at some future point.
I have to agree. I want us to beat full strength teams by preference: it tells us that WE are a team to fear.
Alas, I don't see us at the point where we can. :(
Why? Every other teams loves beating us and we are the most injury plagued team in the history of AFL.
They couldn't give 2 hoots about us missing players and keep kicking us when we lose another game, so I'm hoping every team we play from here on in has injuries to make our life easier in creating some sort of winning culture.
4 points is 4 points, no one looks back on games saying oh they were missing such and such.
I agree with the first point. The mighty have fallen, very significantly. However, IMO we have to accept where we're at, and in order to stave off any further Carlton stupidity, and heaping more unnecessary pressure on the coach, I'll take wins anywhere we can get them but isn't that simply papering over cracks? Wouldn't you rather have the problems fully bared so you could make the necessary changes to address the totally exposed issue(s)? Against the Lions NEAFL team, the Shepparton U/10's, anywhere. Worry about beating the best of the best at some future point.
Surprisingly there has been some good analysis of Carlton from Matthew Lloyd, particularly around Cripps, I think Mark Maclure is on the right track about the culture of the football club around players' commitment, teamwork and accountability, and Daisy Thomas made interesting comments around Bolton playing kids who weren't ready or deserved to be picked.
I think there are six players injured who would be in our best team, Charlie, Marchbank, DeKonning, Silvagni, Martin and Fisher and having them available would make a big difference, however I think our list is very good and deep so having eleven or twelve players unavailable should never be used as an excuse for a lack of effort and commitment.
I think we have good Coaching in that there is a game plan that the players actually seem committed to but are not always willing to put in the effort or commitment to implement it. You can't keep missing targets going forward, missing easy goals and not put on defensive pressure and actually expect a game plan to work. I also like the fact Teague is making young players earn their positions rather than gifting them games. I would like to see Dow, O'Brien, Setterfield, Cuningham, Stocker and others forcing the likes of Murphy, Betts, Newnes, and Curnow out of the side because they better, younger and hungrier than them.
The third element of a successful Club is also in place which is a good administration which is demonstrated by the Membership numbers, the clearing out of debt and the rebuilding of the facilities at Ikon Park.
So I think the criticism has been sharp and fair to a certain extent and it is now up to the players to deliver. I hope it is a line in the sand time.
.................... and Daisy Thomas made interesting comments around Bolton playing kids who weren't ready or deserved to be picked.
We know this happened, under the guise of accelerated development, but I think when it proceeds beyond a certain point of lost hope they become Pavlov's Dog and they have learned to suffer and lose instead of persist and win!
It broke some of those kids.
FWIW, I thought Buckley and Pendlebury were basically referencing us last week when they both stated under media pressure,
"We don't play kids who are not ready and have not earned a spot!"
We folded like a house of cards, as a result some of our best picture cards are forever bent!
I agree with the first point. The mighty have fallen, very significantly. However, IMO we have to accept where we're at, and in order to stave off any further Carlton stupidity, and heaping more unnecessary pressure on the coach, I'll take wins anywhere we can get them but isn't that simply papering over cracks? Wouldn't you rather have the problems fully bared so you could make the necessary changes to address the totally exposed issue(s)? Against the Lions NEAFL team, the Shepparton U/10's, anywhere. Worry about beating the best of the best at some future point.
I don't know if it's papering over cracks or anything else. All I know is that for now, we need to keep the CFC Board and executive from doing something stupid. And that will be achieved by wins.
Anyone having trouble with tickets? Keep getting the "unfortunately, there are no upgrade available for this Member code".
No point phoning Ticketmaster they sit you in a que for thirty minutes than hang up. The Club the same, just about ready to give up on this process!
We know this happened, under the guise of accelerated development, but I think when it proceeds beyond a certain point of lost hope they become Pavlov's Dog and they have learned to suffer and lose instead of persist and win!
It broke some of those kids.
Agreed - its an easy reign to pull during a rebuild, as it
a) assures you lose, so higher draft picks
b) allows the club to sell hope - look at these kids, arent we going to be great, soon
c) buys time
But, it can be counter-productive, as it can, as you point out, kill the confidence of the kids (looking at you, Paddy Dow)
Agreed - its an easy reign to pull during a rebuild, as it
a) assures you lose, so higher draft picks
b) allows the club to sell hope - look at these kids, arent we going to be great, soon
c) buys time
But, it can be counter-productive, as it can, as you point out, kill the confidence of the kids (looking at you, Paddy Dow)
It should come as little surprise that SOS followed the GWS model, given his pedigree. Lots of young kids playing and growing together. Given the injuries and average recycled players that he also recruited (O'Shea etc.), maybe the kids were played becuase there was no on else.
On the flip side, one could reasonably speculate that Dow's confidence took a hit when he was no longer being selected, or selected for 1 game, then dropped. He started really well in 2018, despite our worst season in history.
Blue Moon....I'd add Nic Newman to that list of injured players in our best 22 as well. I think he played every game in his first season for us in 2019 and did his knee in Round 1 last year and hasn't played since. He's got a little bit of mongrel in him and is usually a reliable and penetrating kick off half back or can be used off a wing. I'd have him in the backline before Williamson and SPS at the moment.
I wonder how we would go against BrisVegas if all 22 played with the work ethic of Walsh, Cripps & Weitering?
I wonder how we would go against BrisVegas if all 22 played with the work ethic of Walsh, Cripps & Weitering?
Probably a win. I'd go as far to say that we could beat every team if all 22 played with the work ethic of those three. The question is though, how often would all 22 play with the work ethic of those 3?
If we come to play we can give any team a run.
You'll know in the first ten minutes which Carlton side turns up.
I'm expecting a good effort this week.
They've been stung.
If we don't see it, that will be a worry.
Tom Williamson needs to be dropped this week and probably delisted unless we see a major improvement.
Been a fan since day one but right now he is a major liability and its impossible to have a defender who cant kick on his non preferred foot in some shape or form playing down back. The game is too quick and high pressure to get back on your preferred all the time and you have to be able to hit targets on both feet.
You add that to some horrible decision making, plus shaky kicking on his preferred foot and I cant see how he can command a place in our best 22. The sooner Newman is fit and back in the team the better...
Tom Williamson needs to be dropped this week and probably delisted unless we see a major improvement.
Been a fan since day one but right now he is a major liability and its impossible to have a defender who cant kick on his non preferred foot in some shape or form playing down back. The game is too quick and high pressure to get back on your preferred all the time and you have to be able to hit targets on both feet.
You add that to some horrible decision making, plus shaky kicking on his preferred foot and I cant see how he can command a place in our best 22. The sooner Newman is fit and back in the team the better...
And apart from not being able to use his right foot, he has virtually zero awareness and gets caught very often. Shame really, he has a good physique and a decent tank. Maybe he needs to be tried up the ground.
And apart from not being able to use his right foot, he has virtually zero awareness and gets caught very often. Shame really, he has a good physique and a decent tank.
Glad to see people are coming around to my way of thinking nowadays re willo.
And apart from not being able to use his right foot, he has virtually zero awareness and gets caught very often. Shame really, he has a good physique and a decent tank. Maybe he needs to be tried up the ground.
Fair point about his awareness, the time away he had from the game with his back injuries has really messed with him
and he just isnt that same assured player we all had high hopes for.....
I wonder how we would go against BrisVegas if all 22 played with the work ethic of Walsh, Cripps & Weitering?
I'd like to see that.
A better work ethic will add speed to some of the players who don't run both ways with intensity (for a player with decent speed, SPS doesn't run either way with intensity) but it won't change the fact that some of our players lack the speed to apply pressure on opponents.
Get the club to roll out Bruce Doull to have a chat to the group about effort and dedication to the cause.
Might make some of the boys wet their pants.
I think he came in for a chat to the group in 95 and the rest is history. Please correct me if I am mistaken.
Tipping this week Brisbane won't be happy with the scrutiny on Carlton. Usually ends up badly for that side. We never get beat by 5 goals on our worst days (bit of junk stuff very occasionally) so when we are serious it can be unpleasant for the opposition. Pity it lasts only for about 2 weeks before old habits die hard.
Get the club to roll out Bruce Doull to have a chat to the group about effort and dedication to the cause.
Might make some of the boys wet their pants.
I think he came in for a chat to the group in 95 and the rest is history. Please correct me if I am mistaken.
Doull will have a chat?
Great bloke, but wasnt he known for being a bit reclusive and not one to say much?
Tom Browne
@TomBrowne7
John Worsfold will mentor David Teague and the blues coaches, attending the game this weekend. They are friends from West Coast, and have been in discussion since February. It’s part time, but will boost support and add IP. #exclusive
Doull will have a chat?
Great bloke, but wasnt he known for being a bit reclusive and not one to say much?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNwUaqVYBDo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNwUaqVYBDo
That was my recollection of his reputation.
Meanwhile, I bumped into him at Greensborough plaza a few years back. Said G'day Bruce, and he said, G'day!
It's interesting. David Parkin is probably the person we should be rolling out to talk to everyone at the club.
Even in that video, he comes across differently to every single other person and you hang on his word in a way that none of the other blokes can really capture your attention.
None of the playing group were even born when Bruce last wore his jumper. And they're not worthy of his presence.
Baggers....I'd add Jack Silvagni to your list of blokes who play with intent....IMO we missed him last year when he got injured and we're missing him again now.
None of the playing group were even born when Bruce last wore his jumper. And they're not worthy of his presence.
I'd like Bruce to look McGovern in the eye and ask him how the #11 is working out for him.....
I'd like Bruce to look McGovern in the eye and ask him how the #11 is working out for him.....
Great...Thanks for asking Bruce, been on an all expenses holiday for three years.....havent had much use for the jumper apart from keeping warm at the G, gets real cold standing around doing nothing...
Anyone having trouble with tickets? Keep getting the "unfortunately, there are no upgrade available for this Member code".
No point phoning Ticketmaster they sit you in a que for thirty minutes than hang up. The Club the same, just about ready to give up on this process!
Had no issues with mine. Only issue for me is that it is downstairs on L1 on the 50, were as in past years I could walk up to L4 on the wing and have a good view of the ground.
https://www.afl.com.au/news/599194/out-of-the-cold-the-key-to-stocker-s-afl-return-after-38-touch-vfl-game
A bit hard on Stocker saying he has to "prove himself as a defender"? At the start of the year we had a glut of defenders and then brought in Saad and Williams. Now Teague saying Williams might go back, McGovern might go back.
IMH for this week....Williamson definitely out! McGovern to play back as a third tall....Stocker onto a half back flank or a wing and SPS in the middle (that's if he holds his spot in the team). If Cunningham comes in, not sure who he replaces?
The back 6 could look like:
Docherty Jones McGovern
Saad Weitering Stocker/Plowman
A bit hard on Stocker saying he has to "prove himself as a defender"? At the start of the year we had a glut of defenders and then brought in Saad and Williams.
Stupid thing about this was we are trying to play him as a defender. We trained him up as a defender. For whatever reason, we gave him a crack in the midfield in some match simulation and he dominated. Thats where he plays his best football. Thats where he feels comfortable.
So he plays loose across half back and dominates, so he MUST (?) come in as a defender?
Here's an idea.....
Bring Stocker in, start him on the bench.
Bring him on, let him have 5 minutes in the guts and see how he goes.
Then you wanna swap him out, let him go to half back.
Move SPS from half back and put him in the guts.
See if SPS magically plays better in his preferred position.
At the end of the day, you have 2 half backs/midfielders swapping between those 2 positions and seeing if they can actually play any of them to a reasonable standard.
Stop pigeon holing both of them as half back or nothing....it doesn't help us.
I’m guessing no changes...
Maybe Dow in and Stockster sub.
Agreed Kruddler....doesn't make any sense at all. We've tried to make a defender out of SPS and look how that's turned out. If he's good enough for the 22 then play him. He's already got enough pressure on him as it is given the circumstances surrounding how he was drafted.
Can't see how Dow gets another go after just a week out and didn't do much in the VFL. Don't wanna be too hard on him but he needs a good 5-6 weeks in the VFL to find the footy a bit and build up some confidence.
Stocker in for Williamson might be the only change.
Stocker and Ramsay in for me......
Williamson and SPS out...
Stocker and Ramsay in for me......
Williamson and SPS out...
It will be the usual suspects back in, Setterfield, Cameo Cunningham etc. SPS will not be dropped, has pictures of someone in the nude.
https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/teams/carlton/afl-2021-is-it-time-carltons-veterans-started-getting-the-chop/news-story/957c14cf04f02449726ef0e20e7abc36
AFL 2021: How Carlton has mistreated its prized youngsters
The ‘ins’ and ‘outs’ at Carlton make for dull and repetitive reading.
Perhaps the Blues’ match committee listens to Katy Perry’s hit Hot n Cold when they pick their teams.
They have dropped seven players since Round 13 last season.
In order, those 2020 omissions were Josh Honey (after making his AFL debut), Matthew Cottrell (after playing two consecutive games), Matthew Owies (after making his AFL debut) and Lochie O’Brien (after playing his only game for the season).
The players punted this year are O’Brien (again after playing one game), Tom Williamson (after playing two games), Will Setterfield (after playing one game) and Paddy Dow.
The message from loyal coach David Teague appears to be clear: If you are over 22 and in the 22 then you are not the problem.
It seems the likes of Marc Murphy, Eddie Betts, Ed Curnow, Jack Newnes, Mitch McGovern and Lachie Plowman are all immune.
At other clubs it is not just the kids who must play by the standards set.
Mitch Wallis and Jason Johannisen (Western Bulldogs), Daniel Rioli and Nathan Broad (Richmond), Jared Polec (North Melbourne), Mason Cox (Collingwood) and Greater Western Sydney captain Stephen Coniglio have all fallen out of their teams in that period.
In Round 5 the Blues rolled out the sixth-oldest and fifth-most experienced line-up – a similar age profile to contenders Richmond, West Coast, Geelong and Brisbane Lions.
Delve deeper at Carlton and it is hard not to sympathise with some of these kids, where the only constant is change.
Take a look at Setterfield.
In Round 2 the Blues played the inside midfielder out of position, spending 84 per cent on a wing.
Setterfield struggled, missed Round 3 with illness, was brought back for Round 4 and then dropped for Round 5. Good luck finding form.
Take a look at Dow, who was undoubtedly struggling and deservedly dropped after Round 4.
But instead of letting him find form in the VFL, Dow sat on the MCG bench as the unused medical substitute against Port Adelaide.
Take a look at O’Brien, who played 17 games in 2019 on the wing as the No. 10 draft pick’s confidence grew exponentially.
Then, the Blues brought in delisted free agent Jack Newnes, 28. O’Brien has played just two games since.
Take a look at Williamson.
In 2017 the late draft pick played 15 games as a shining light in defence.
Williamson missed all of 2018 with a back injury, was brought back after just two VFL games in 2019, broke down again and has not looked the same since.
In 2017 he was cool under pressure. Now Williamson has a case of the fumbles.
This season is make or break for a lot of these kids – Cottrell, Honey, O’Brien, Owies, Parks, Setterfield and Matthew Kennedy are all out of contact.
Do Carlton fans have a read on whether they are any good?
Would they rather get a glimpse of one-game unknowns Honey or Owies up forward or watch the slow demise of Murphy and Betts?
Sam Philp us another question mark. The top-20 draft pick was put in for two games last year. He hasn’t been seen since. Flexible midfielder Sam Ramsay is in good form and still hasn’t been seen.
Ironically, the exception to the in-and-out rule – Sam Petrevski-Seton – probably would’ve benefited from being dropped, rather than handed games.
Different cat David Cuningham is out of favour because his pressure numbers are low. But Murphy is rated below-average for forward-half pressure points and tackles by Champion Data while Betts is rated average.
This week Liam Stocker and perhaps Cuningham are in line to play.
The Blues aren’t sure Stocker runs hard enough defensively. But after 38 VFL disposals last week he will be hard to ignore.
Will he come in for one week? Two weeks? And who will he replace? History says it won’t be a big name.
The media are weathervanes telling fans what they want to hear. Just 72hrs ago we were being accused by the media of playing kids who didn't deserve a run, gifting games to kids who were not ready.
Now we are apparently cutting them from the squad undeservedly!
The reason why Teague won't give kids an extended run is because he saw what happened to Bolton. The media are shameless and morally bankrupt.
All I want to see this week, and for the next 17 games, is committed effort, and players in their right positions, the latter my only real knock on Teague. If players are played in positions they are familiar with their productivity will surely be much better. Wrong positions can only confuse players. Still, the players need to be fully committed for more than 2 weeks in a row.
If there are any kids in the 2s who would have a decent crack at it, I say bring them in.
On thing for sure, if we think the same formula will bring a different result, we haven't learned much.
If there are any kids in the 2s who would have a decent crack at it, I say bring them in.
On thing for sure, if we think the same formula will bring a different result, we haven't learned much.
Some might even say its insanity (by definition).
All I want to see this week, and for the next 17 games, is committed effort, and players in their right positions, the latter my only real knock on Teague. If players are played in positions they are familiar with their productivity will surely be much better. Wrong positions can only confuse players. Still, the players need to be fully committed for more than 2 weeks in a row.
And if not?
Is part of the problem playing players in their 'right positions' the fact that for many of them the 'right position' is the same as a number of other players.
If Stocker and SPS's right positions are midfielders....what about the other midfielders.
How do we go picking a team of players in their 'right positions.'
I suspect it wouldn't be an easy task.
Hence the compromises....some half-forward or back.
Stocker and Ramsay in for me......
Williamson and SPS out...
Murphy deserves to go out before SPS imo.
Play Stocker off HBF, SPS to that mid/high HF spot.
Murphy deserves to go out before SPS imo.
Play Stocker off HBF, SPS to that mid/high HF spot.
I'd have both Murphy and SPS out...but Murphy is being nursed to 300 and is an automatic selection by default.
SPS is too lazy and frustrating, I'm over him and he would be on my trade out list at seasons end.
I'd be playing Stocker in the middle where I saw him play well in the U18's, can get the ball, distribute and has a initial burst of pace. Our midfield is disappointing and needs revamping....
Agree EB...talk of moving Williams back onto a HBF is ridiculous....he was recruited to play in the middle and add some run and carry. It's in the middle that we're being thrashed apart from Walsh. Saad, Plowman and Docherty should be able to provide what's needed down back....and I'd be playing McGovern down there this week too. With Daniher, McStay and Hipwood we'll need someone else....and Williamson isn't the one.
Similarly, Murphy should be playing in the guts....not as an outside small forward. If he can't do that, back to the VFL.
Agree EB...talk of moving Williams back onto a HBF is ridiculous....he was recruited to play in the middle and add some run and carry. It's in the middle that we're being thrashed apart from Walsh. Saad, Plowman and Docherty should be able to provide what's needed down back....and I'd be playing McGovern down there this week too. With Daniher, McStay and Hipwood we'll need someone else....and Williamson isn't the one.
Similarly, Murphy should be playing in the guts....not as an outside small forward. If he can't do that, back to the VFL.
For sure Surfie we will need help down back, McStay is 196cm and he is the shortest out of those three talls so we need another tall defender, not sure about McGovern but no harm trying him there.
Williams is a midfielder in training and thats where the issue is IMO, you cant expect him to be totally across the position yet and
I think we will try and get a few goals out of him too while he plays a Martin type role and spends time forward and onball.
Murphy should be in the VFL now IMO, time to bite the bullet and play some kids in the roles they were recruited for.
eg Setterfield...been a mess this season IMO, timid and really out of sorts, perhaps time in the middle and back to his original role can shake him out of the lethargy he seems to be in. Ed Curnow has been a warrior but Setterfields time is now and I want to see him at the coalface getting more minutes than Ed....
Yes Curnow has been a warrior but for now, he's still our best option as a run-with tagging sort of player....he's got the tank for it and likely to get the job on Neale.
I like the idea of Williams in the midfield...his disposal is usually pretty good and we really don't have any others with that breakaway speed that he's got. If it takes him a bit of time to adjust, then so be it....but don't throw him back onto a HBF now.
I'd be playing Stocker in the middle where I saw him play well in the U18's, can get the ball, distribute and has a initial burst of pace. Our midfield is disappointing and needs revamping....
Something i touched on in an earlier post.
Stocker played U18's as a mid.
He was drafted as a mid.
In our recent practice matches, the message from the club said he excelled as a mid and 'came into his own'.
Yet....
As soon as he joined the club, we said we'd turn him into a defender.
Despite showing signs (years later) that he is a mid, we still say he can't get into the side unless its as a defender.
As some fish and chip owner once said....
Please explain!
Yes Curnow has been a warrior but for now, he's still our best option as a run-with tagging sort of player....he's got the tank for it and likely to get the job on Neale.
I like the idea of Williams in the midfield...his disposal is usually pretty good and we really don't have any others with that breakaway speed that he's got. If it takes him a bit of time to adjust, then so be it....but don't throw him back onto a HBF now.
I'm tending to move away from tagging and being like a negative midpack team, Ed still does the job ok but I just
see that as zero progression and I'd rather the semi tag where at stoppages the opposing player is tagged and marked hard
but then after that you back your players in like the good teams do. I want Setterfield being the next Jack Steele who can win plenty of ball and be damaging but also have half an eye on Cripps and reduce his output rather than be the next Ed Curnow who tags heavily but doesnt really hurt the opposition.
In Stocker Cunners
Out Dow Kennedy Williamson
Geez Kennedy is unlucky IMO. Not given anywhere near the chances that some others have had.
Disappointed in the Kennedy out.
Would have liked to see him get a string of games.
Doesn't bode well for his future at the club.
Suggests he's already been judged.
At the end of the day though there are only so many spots.
Geez Kennedy is unlucky IMO. Not given anywhere near the chances that some others have had.
Played out of position on the wing... very unlucky.
Our conservative selection policy continues. A boldness free zone.
In Stocker Cunners
Out Dow Kennedy Williamson
Is Kennedy being punished for something ? Is he a PITA off field ? Did he make a pass at the coach's wife ? Run over the family dog ? His omission is a real head scratcher. Williamson is fair enough based on form. And Dow's existence in limbo continues.
Played out of position on the wing... very unlucky.
Our conservative selection policy continues. A boldness free zone.
"Played out of position" seems to be a common theme these days :(
Agreed Baggers...if McGovern is to be played back this week, then Kennedy could easily play a role similar to Silvagni as a pressure forward, 3rd forward...he can take a mark and kick a goal....and have the odd run in the middle.
Cunningham would need to show something this weekend and for the rest of the year otherwise he's trade bait too.
Kennedy should have his own TV show called the Fall guy, I wouldnt expect to see him at the club next season.
He would get a run of games if the club had faith in him but clearly like the last few seasons he is on the outer
and needs a miracle to stay on the list IMO.
While having no confidence in the incoming deckchair Cuningham lets hope he gets more of a go than Kennedy so at least a proper assessment can be made on his future.
Is Kennedy being punished for something ? Is he a PITA off field ? Did he make a pass at the coach's wife ? Run over the family dog ? His omission is a real head scratcher. Williamson is fair enough based on form. And Dow's existence in limbo continues.
Selection is head scratching every week, our reserves (younger newbies) must be doing nothing for Cameo Cunningham to get a gig. Ill guarantee you he will be largely unsighted tomorrow. But as long as we play our way, everything is hunky dory
Perhaps Kennedy only got a game because we didn't have anyone else....and we didn't wanna try LOB again.
On output, his performance was one of the most disappointing. So it makes sense from the last game.....perhaps a little harsh when looking at the bigger picture.....but looking at an even larger picture, he's lucky to be on the list and has never really lived up to the hype.
Whichever way you look at it, i like the ins.
Geez Kennedy must really have done something wrong at the club. Not the greatest of games by him last week, but gee. Williamson, fair enough. Really sad to see him drop away so much. Just wish we had've tried a few more changes. I can't help but look at a Sydney. Travelling pretty well, have lost 3 to injuries and still dropped 3. No dare from our club.
Geez Kennedy must really have done something wrong at the club. Not the greatest of games by him last week, but gee. Williamson, fair enough. Really sad to see him drop away so much. Just wish we had've tried a few more changes. I can't help but look at a Sydney. Travelling pretty well, have lost 3 to injuries and still dropped 3. No dare from our club.
Sydney have that academy just providing fruit like a good lemon tree, we have to move mountains to get our kids up to speed and theirs just rock up day one AFL ready. Its hard to make progress when they should be down in the bottom 4 but have leapfrogged us after looking cooked for the next few years..
I think Kennedy will be medical sub again. He’s versatile, to a point and fill a number of holes. The other 3 need more game to prove themselves.
(https://ibb.co/nwTY6Q2)
Anyone else find there name on the banner for tomorrow night? ;D
Teams for this week, as selected:
Backs: Lachie Plowman Liam Jones Sam Petrevski-Seton
Half-backs: Sam Docherty Jacob Weitering Adam Saad
Centreline: Jack Newnes Ed Curnow Sam Walsh
Half-forwards: Lachie Fogarty Mitch McGovern Marc Murphy
Forwards: Michael Gibbons Harry McKay Levi Casboult
Followers: Marc Pittonet Patrick Cripps Zac Williams
Interchange: Eddie Betts Matthew Cottrell David Cuningham Liam Stocker
Emergencies: Matthew Kennedy Paddy Dow Matthew Owies Will Setterfield
Kennedy was stiff to be dropped. He may not have had a big game, but he wasn't a total disaster. The only reason I can really think of is lack of pace. But he is stiff, no doubt about it.
Williamson probably needed another good game in the VFL, although he had a very good one the previous week. I'd wait a few weeks and try him in a few different spots. He needs to get some confidence up, because he isn't playing with much.
Setters is lucky to be the emergency. I was disappointed with his game. He may have had a negative job, but sometimes a player just has to step up, to make a difference. He couldn't, or didn't.
I don't think Saad or Docherty or Weitering can be 100%. I hate playing injured players.
"Anyone else find there name on the banner for tomorrow night?"
My wife did the searching and found the 3 of us. We are suckers for punishment are going tomorrow. Lions by plenty.
Williamson probably needed another good game in the VFL, although he had a very good one the previous week. I'd wait a few weeks and try him in a few different spots. He needs to get some confidence up, because he isn't playing with much.
Willo's dropping was sealed last week when they tried to hide him in the forward line late in the game. Even then he had a pretty straight forward shot on goal on the right side for his left foot and still blew it. Can't bode well for his confidence.
"Anyone else find there name on the banner for tomorrow night?"
My wife did the searching and found the 3 of us. We are suckers for punishment are going tomorrow. Lions by plenty.
I’m taking my 3yo to her first ever game 🤦🏻♀️ I should really just wait until we play north Melbourne
Good luck Blues15. Our 5yo is on board tomorrow as well - we took her to a couple of games when she was 3. Spent more time running around after her than watching footy (but she will at least sing the song at the start)
Good luck Blues15. Our 5yo is on board tomorrow as well - we took her to a couple of games when she was 3. Spent more time running around after her than watching footy (but she will at least sing the song at the start)
Haha thanks! I took my now 4 year old pre covid and I know exactly what it’s like we did about 3 laps of marvel stadium 😆 I am taking both of them this time around so it should be very interesting.
Haha exactly they enjoy themselves at the start and also the good thing about that age is even if we lose I tell them we have won and they don’t know any different 🤷🏻♀️ Carlton have won every game this season 🤫
(https://ibb.co/nwTY6Q2)
Anyone else find there name on the banner for tomorrow night? ;D
Please explain.
I've got my name on a couple of jumpers and on the wall at the club....but banner??
Please explain.
I've got my name on a couple of jumpers and on the wall at the club....but banner??
https://resources.carltonfc.com.au/aflc-carl/document/2021/04/22/79484d6f-9d91-48fe-b517-46cb2fc1483c/CFC2-253-MEMB21-Rd-6-Banner-Digital.pdf
Have fun :D
https://www.carltonfc.com.au/news/918192/members-recognised-on-first-2021-banner?fbclid=IwAR2w6GNgOIvaZWWqQTzgwqAMZOyQpJz1G2ktub67A9NXLvW70D5IHagL8T4
This might also help!
(https://ibb.co/nwTY6Q2)
Anyone else find there name on the banner for tomorrow night? ;D
Yep
and the grandsons...great idea and kudos to those responsible.
The real head scratcher is Murphy - refuses to compete, has 0 impact and is given a golden pass every week. If he was at any other club he’d be given the Gibbs treatment pronto languishing in the 2s.
Hope he proves me wrong but he just doesn’t want it enough.
Why we persist with Newnes ahead of Dow is also very annoying.
(https://ibb.co/nwTY6Q2)
Anyone else find there name on the banner for tomorrow night? ;D
Yep!
https://resources.carltonfc.com.au/aflc-carl/document/2021/04/22/79484d6f-9d91-48fe-b517-46cb2fc1483c/CFC2-253-MEMB21-Rd-6-Banner-Digital.pdf
Have fun :D
My eyes hurt.
But found it....eventually. Wasn't as easy as it should've been.
Why we persist with Newnes ahead of Dow is also very annoying.
Yes and no.
We persist with Newnes because Dow refuses to take the next step.
In short, Dow is annoying.
The real head scratcher is Murphy - refuses to compete, has 0 impact and is given a golden pass every week. If he was at any other club he’d be given the Gibbs treatment pronto languishing in the 2s.
Hope he proves me wrong but he just doesn’t want it enough.
Why we persist with Newnes ahead of Dow is also very annoying.
(https://th.bing.com/th/id/OIP.FLFBBt-cmT-yu0R714HJUwHaKe?pid=ImgDet&rs=1)
My eyes hurt.
But found it....eventually. Wasn't as easy as it should've been.
Look, I’m not going to lie and pretend like there isn’t a much easier way to search it. I am pretty sure Carlton had post something earlier on facebook on how you could just simply search your name and it will find it for you but I thought it might be fun looking for your name amongst 70,000 others >:D
Newnes is a wingman. Dow is a stoppage player. Paddy needs to earn his spot in the centre or he is finished.
Look, I’m not going to lie and pretend like there isn’t a much easier way to search it. I am pretty sure Carlton had post something earlier on facebook on how you could just simply search your name and it will find it for you but I thought it might be fun looking for your name amongst 70,000 others >:D
Yeah, the search function didn't really work for me for whatever reason.
So old school it was.
https://resources.carltonfc.com.au/aflc-carl/document/2021/04/22/79484d6f-9d91-48fe-b517-46cb2fc1483c/CFC2-253-MEMB21-Rd-6-Banner-Digital.pdf
Have fun :D
Found mine!!!
Found mine and the mrs.
Helps our surname is 14 characters long and the names are in alphabetical order and you can zoom in.
Found mine and the mrs.
Helps our surname is 14 characters long and the names are in alphabetical order and you can zoom in.
Knowing the alphabet is the key I reckon. ;) ;D
Knowing the alphabet is the key I reckon. ;) ;D
Yes, but does the alphabet include *space*?
Thats the curveball.
My name has been spelled wrong 1000's of times, i'm used to looking for it in spots it shouldn't be.
Newnes is a wingman. Dow is a stoppage player. Paddy needs to earn his spot in the centre or he is finished.
Newnes is a vfl player and Dow has the potential to be so much more. Give the boy an extended opportunity.
Dow can play wing.
Newnes is a vfl player
I think that's a bit tough on Newnes, he is a capable AFL player, but like many on our list he needs to be used the right way.
It's time we set our own narrative, and stopped being so reactive to the opposition tactics.
Kennedy is the sub. No change
I think that's a bit tough on Newnes, he is a capable AFL player, but like many on our list he needs to be used the right way.
It's time we set our own narrative, and stopped being so reactive to the opposition tactics.
Newnes has done the job he was hired to do, occupy the wing and be useful while the kids develop, problem being the kids havent developed enough to push him out of the team.
I actually listened to Cripps on the Dyl and friends podcast and Cripps says they love Newnes because he is the first in to help a mate when challenged by opposing players with the rough stuff so I dont see Newnes going anywhere for a while given he has the premier player at the clubs support.
Agree on us being more proactive and setting the agenda in games, bit more imagination at the selection table and with matchups might help..
Newnes has done the job he was hired to do, occupy the wing and be useful while the kids develop, problem being the kids havent developed enough to push him out of the team.
I actually listened to Cripps on the Dyl and friends podcast and Cripps says they love Newnes because he is the first in to help a mate when challenged by opposing players with the rough stuff so I dont see Newnes going anywhere for a while given he has the premier player at the clubs support.
Agree on us being more proactive and setting the agenda in games, bit more imagination at the selection table and with matchups might help.. and playing blokes in their right positions, to many square pegs, round holes.