I was at the game tonight and was really disapointed with the crowd. I know that fans are voting with their feet cos they have had enough. But is this the right tie to be doing this? .
NOW is the time that we need to support the players more than ever. Just look at the honest interviews Simmo and Dockers did. Dockers especially was crying for the supporters to STICK FAT.
For all out bagging of Bomber supporters, they really stuck together during the Drugs saga. They Stck Fat.
We are fair weather supporters at best and it crapes me to death that our supporters are fickle as all f&8k.
So to the supporters out there, I plead with you to stick by the boys. Go to the games, watch ad support.
I jnow it is hard but our team needs us more than ever
Agree....I will pay my membership and attend all games...this year and next year....and the year after....and so on.
No,
You guys need to do the opposite.
The club needs a crisis.
No,
You guys need to do the opposite.
The club needs a crisis.
The club is already in crisis.
The supporters are voting with their feet because THE PLAYERS are not putting in EFFORT.
I was at the game last week and it was ridiculous how little effort we showed.
I was asked by 2 seperate Geelong supporters to go tonight. I said no chance after what happened last week, the same will happen again tonight. It did.
Put in effort and i'll turn up. I'm a paid up member anyway, so whether i turn up or not doesn't make a difference to the bottom line anyway.
Tell me Essendon ever played as badly as we're playing now at the height of their drug allegation hysteria.....can't compare.
Nup - I don't blame any supporter for not sticking fat (btw - I hate that term with a passion....but anyway), the recent tackle count & pressure indicators suggest that the players certainly aren't.....I'm happy to see supporters voting with their feet, it's almost a form of peaceful protest. The way they're performing at the moment does not deserve any sort of patronage.
I was at the game tonight and was really disapointed with the crowd. I know that fans are voting with their feet cos they have had enough. But is this the right tie to be doing this? .
NOW is the time that we need to support the players more than ever. Just look at the honest interviews Simmo and Dockers did. Dockers especially was crying for the supporters to STICK FAT.
For all out bagging of Bomber supporters, they really stuck together during the Drugs saga. They Stck Fat.
We are fair weather supporters at best and it crapes me to death that our supporters are fickle as all f&8k.
So to the supporters out there, I plead with you to stick by the boys. Go to the games, watch ad support.
I jnow it is hard but our team needs us more than ever
You're right Age, but its hard.
You watch video footage of Levi in the rooms after the game tonight. He had his head buried in his hands. His eyeballs were as red as if he was smoking dope all day long. He had tears in his eyes. The man known as "meat" was crying. He knows his footy future is on the line this season. He doesn't know what to do to get out of this situation of poor form. He is a dear in headlights at the moment. It mad me feel sad as a supporter. The rest with the bye just can't come soon enough. 35 tackles today really had me worried. Sticking the fat or not is up to each individual. The players need to lift the intensity to get the crowds back. Tail doesn't wag the dog. They need to find something more than hoping the ball will fall into their lap. I do understand both sides of this argument. Sad day in footy is all I can say.
You watch video footage of Levi in the rooms after the game tonight. He had his head buried in his hands. His eyeballs were as red as if he was smoking dope all day long. He had tears in his eyes. The man known as "meat" was crying. He knows his footy future is on the line this season. He doesn't know what to do to get out of this situation of poor form. He is a dear in headlights at the moment. It mad me feel sad as a supporter. The rest with the bye just can't come soon enough. 35 tackles today really had me worried. Sticking the fat or not is up to each individual. The players need to lift the intensity to get the crowds back. Tail doesn't wag the dog. They need to find something more than hoping the ball will fall into their lap. I do understand both sides of this argument. Sad day in footy is all I can say.
Cam Wood also looked like he had tears in his eyes, Ed Curnow was heart broken and looked close to tears also.
Totally understand the sentiments of this thread.
Wish it were possible.
The big problem is we don't have a 'common' sense of 'why' we are where we are... and the 'solutions' to the problems.
It's very hard to achieve unity under those circumstances
A lot of folk have stayed strong and true during a very low period in our club's history.
We maintained attendances and in fact increased memberships.
We had the odd glimmer of hope with a few finals appearances and we thought the worst was behind us only to slip back to a level that equates to our performances in our darkest years.
We're then told we have to start again and it will be another 3 years before things look up.
How many of our 45,000 plus membership would sign up again tomorrow.
A significant number wouldn't.
The disappointment is very apparent in here, and we're a sample of the more committed Carlton supporter.
I think we're fatigued by it all.
It shows in the posts.
It shows in the lack of appreciation of different points of view.
Arguments have again become quite personal in much the same way as they did during the Pagan years
In some cases we've turned to the 'black' humour as a way of dealing with it.
Frustration has given way to anger, and in some cases people have moved past that into a state of resignation that things aren't going to improve for a long time.
In such a climate it's pretty hard to achieve unity, especially when there appears to be a growing divide between coach and administration.
To achieve the unity we need some action that will give us hope, or at the very least indicate a change in direction.
Something to get behind
Give us something...anything!
The supporters are voting with their feet because THE PLAYERS are not putting in EFFORT.
I was at the game last week and it was ridiculous how little effort we showed.
I was asked by 2 seperate Geelong supporters to go tonight. I said no chance after what happened last week, the same will happen again tonight. It did.
Put in effort and i'll turn up. I'm a paid up member anyway, so whether i turn up or not doesn't make a difference to the bottom line anyway.
Yes Kruds, it's the players. ::) :o ;D
Yes Kruds, it's the players. ::) :o ;D
How many kicks did the coach get?
How many tackles?
The coach is not out on the ground the players are.
I don't' care if they are 1-armed 75 year old women....while you are out on the ground, wearing that jumper you put in effort. I don't care if Hitler himself is your coach, you put in effort.
THE PLAYERS are not doing that and until they do, i wont be going to another game this year....or next...regardless of who is coaching us.
Krud. In over so many years of football at VFL or AFL level, there have never been one armed or 75 year old women play for the Carlton football club. Especially one armed 75 year old women. While the coach is always questioned, the first problem always falls at the feet of the players. No coach states 35 tackles in a match is an O.K. result. The problem is that you can't sack 40 players and get 40 new players for the coach to work with in one season. We have a mess on so many levels, we don't even know where to start. I hope SOS is the start of a better path to follow in the future. I really do.
How many kicks did the coach get?
How many tackles?
The coach is not out on the ground the players are.
I don't' care if they are 1-armed 75 year old women....while you are out on the ground, wearing that jumper you put in effort. I don't care if Hitler himself is your coach, you put in effort.
THE PLAYERS are not doing that and until they do, i wont be going to another game this year....or next...regardless of who is coaching us.
Well u r a fair weather supporter...
Great post Lods. Sums up well the frustration and anger. Just imagine working at the club at the moment. The failure would hang over all like a gloom.
Takes some real courage to work through this, hope the people there are up to it.
I went. I had little expectation and was surprised that we actually had a fair number of supporters go. 32000 at Etihad isn't a terrible number. It's not great, but it wasn't our home game anyway.
I got medallion ticket. I had a few beers. I got some down time from our renovation, and I got some free popcorn.
You cannot tell me our players are in good nick. I estimate most are carrying a niggle and most have had poor pre season.
They actually tried tonight. Only for it to come undone in the execution.
For those of you who tell me we are better than what we are seeing, I'm not so sure. We exexcute basics poorly. We make bad decisions with ball in hand. Few genuinely show confidence. We don't create scoring opportunities and when our opponents make errors we fail to capitalise.
We are undersized, understrength, undermanned and still can't seem to form a spine of a team.
We have some good ingredients but it falls over too easily.
It's easy to point the finger at one, but we appear to suffer from a lack of familiarity with each others strengths and this is hindering our ability to play good footy.
Give it time, we'll improve.
Thry, can I ask you one question? With very minimal positive besides we did try tonight, and all the negatives of we are undersized, understrength, undermanned and still can't seem to find a spine, how do you see we will improve? By getting players in that will solve this situation? Or by the players getting better with what they are doing? Or is it a case that we can't get any worse and have to get better? Geelong were not that great tonight. Not even a top 8 side in my opinion. They have become another Ninthmond from what I watched. Let me know what you saw that we didn't see on the TV. ;)
We do things at times in terms of structure which makes you say we are on here and the next kick is too long, too short, the wrong option or a miskick.
You can see it unfold before it happens.
Players free on the fat side of the ground but the ball gets cut off in transition over there. Players playing on top of each other and then running to the right position. We are contesting and getting little reward for effort.
Communication can and should improve.
Execution can and should improve.
Our team balance should improve.
Personnel give us Henderson and Jamison and things will improve.
Fitness will improve.
Our players are trying to kick long but can barely clear forty metres whilst our opponents do it easily. We are not in good nick. Our preseason can't have been good, because our players look like they are struggling to cover the ground with a few exceptions. Yarran, Tuohy, bell, Jones, Curnow.
Everyone else looks flat.
I think as they get used to each other they can fix 90% of the above.
We do things at times in terms of structure which makes you say we are on here and the next kick is too long, too short, the wrong option or a miskick.
You can see it unfold before it happens.
Players free on the fat side of the ground but the ball gets cut off in transition over there. Players playing on top of each other and then running to the right position. We are contesting and getting little reward for effort.
Communication can and should improve.
Execution can and should improve.
Our team balance should improve.
Personnel give us Henderson and Jamison and things will improve.
Fitness will improve.
Our players are trying to kick long but can barely clear forty metres whilst our opponents do it easily. We are not in good nick. Our preseason can't have been good, because our players look like they are struggling to cover the ground with a few exceptions. Yarran, Tuohy, bell, Jones, Curnow.
Everyone else looks flat.
I think as they get used to each other they can fix 90% of the above.
A new coach should fix 90% of that. ;)
^^
Yup, the only thing that's fat around our club is Mick's paycheque! And let's not forget his son Fail Thomas as well.
Well u r a fair weather supporter...
..and you are a **** *** but lets not start calling eachother names.
I am not a fair weather supporter.
I signed on as a member during our darkest days because that is when the club needed us most.
I have never left a match early in my life.
I sat through more whippings under Pagan than 95% of the people on here.
Throughout all of that, at least there was something to look forward too. Sure we were going to get pumped, but at least you could get a glimpse into the future - a light at the end of the tunnel.
I will continue to watch each and every second on TV.
However, i will not waste my time attending games where we do little more than a bang on impersonation of witches hats. The club needs to get the message that this is not on. This is the best way to let them see this.
..and you are a **** *** but lets not start calling eachother names.
I am not a fair weather supporter.
I signed on as a member during our darkest days because that is when the club needed us most.
I have never left a match early in my life.
I sat through more whippings under Pagan than 95% of the people on here.
Throughout all of that, at least there was something to look forward too. Sure we were going to get pumped, but at least you could get a glimpse into the future - a light at the end of the tunnel.
I will continue to watch each and every second on TV.
However, i will not waste my time attending games where we do little more than a bang on impersonation of witches hats. The club needs to get the message that this is not on. This is the best way to let them see this.
your non attendance does nothing other than to financially penalise the club
if you dont swipe your card at etihad and we dont reach 20,000 crowd , we pay etihad money
last week the club paid $200,000 to Etihad for a 16,000 crowd
no, Im wrong you are not a fair weather supporter, you are a football guru.... ::)
My kids just had kick to kick at Auskick with Carrotts, Yazz and Dennis. They all moved poorly and looked sore.
Those three did more to help the brand today than all the marketinghype and lies I have seen this year. Even though they were hurting they were happy to chat and interact with the kids and fans. Community engagement at its best.
I reckon my kids will stick fat for ever after that.
There would be NO fair weather supporters on here MF. A fair weather supporter is someone who supports the winning team, instead of supporting for the same team year after year.
This is not Kruddler, by any means, in fact anyone still on here participating in these discussions could not even be considered as a fair weather supporter.
Reading your posts at the moment is like talking to a born again Christian, replace God with Trigg and LoGiudice and it's the same conversation.
God is good. God will fix everything. You need to have faith in God. If you don't believe in God then you will be cast out .......
These last 15 years have delivered much angst for us, with only a very little bright spot for a couple of years. A large number of supporters who came to the clubs aid during the real dark days donated money, I have my name at Carlton on a board for my donations. I've bought raffle tickets at $500 a go as well knowing that it was pretty much a donation. Hell my membership is still a donation as I live in Tassie and only get over for one game a year.
My opinion is pretty much the same as Kruddlers, so am I a fair weather supporter?
I am totally sick and tired of the same crap being rolled out with the promise that things will get better. I, like most here, work hard to make a buck for my family and my indulgence time is sitting down with a beer and watching my beloved team play. When they don't appear to play with any heart, I have every right to complain about the club. I applauded loudly in my lounge room last night when Woods roughed up Selwood or when Cowan was blanketing the sook. I cheered for Jones when despite being held by Lonegan, managed to knock the ball out to Tutt to kick a goal, and felt like some pride had come into the team when they all ran to Jones, then I thought these acts stand out, when they should be happening all the time. I know the talent is not there, what I want to see is effort and I will cut up rough about it when it's not there.
You keep preaching the word of the Lord though. ::)
your non attendance does nothing other than to financially penalise the club
if you dont swipe your card at etihad and we dont reach 20,000 crowd , we pay etihad money
last week the club paid $200,000 to Etihad for a 16,000 crowd
no, Im wrong you are not a fair weather supporter, you are a football guru.... ::)
I've had differences with Kruddler but I will back him here. He is far from a fair weather supporter, as good a supporter as you'd get. I'm with him, the club to earn their dollars from supporters, not mindlessly follow like football sheep. The club won't change anything otherwise.
How many kicks did the coach get?
How many tackles?
The coach is not out on the ground the players are.
I don't' care if they are 1-armed 75 year old women....while you are out on the ground, wearing that jumper you put in effort. I don't care if Hitler himself is your coach, you put in effort.
THE PLAYERS are not doing that and until they do, i wont be going to another game this year....or next...regardless of who is coaching us.
Coach's first job is to get the players behind him so they willingly run out there chasing, tackling and running. Can't do that then you're failing in your job as coach. There's only one reason they aren't doing those things, Mick's lost the players completely. That's not to say the player's are exonerated either as their efforts have been poor.
There would be NO fair weather supporters on here MF. A fair weather supporter is someone who supports the winning team, instead of supporting for the same team year after year.
This is not Kruddler, by any means, in fact anyone still on here participating in these discussions could not even be considered as a fair weather supporter.
Reading your posts at the moment is like talking to a born again Christian, replace God with Trigg and LoGiudice and it's the same conversation.
God is good. God will fix everything. You need to have faith in God. If you don't believe in God then you will be cast out .......
These last 15 years have delivered much angst for us, with only a very little bright spot for a couple of years. A large number of supporters who came to the clubs aid during the real dark days donated money, I have my name at Carlton on a board for my donations. I've bought raffle tickets at $500 a go as well knowing that it was pretty much a donation. Hell my membership is still a donation as I live in Tassie and only get over for one game a year.
My opinion is pretty much the same as Kruddlers, so am I a fair weather supporter?
I am totally sick and tired of the same crap being rolled out with the promise that things will get better. I, like most here, work hard to make a buck for my family and my indulgence time is sitting down with a beer and watching my beloved team play. When they don't appear to play with any heart, I have every right to complain about the club. I applauded loudly in my lounge room last night when Woods roughed up Selwood or when Cowan was blanketing the sook. I cheered for Jones when despite being held by Lonegan, managed to knock the ball out to Tutt to kick a goal, and felt like some pride had come into the team when they all ran to Jones, then I thought these acts stand out, when they should be happening all the time. I know the talent is not there, what I want to see is effort and I will cut up rough about it when it's not there.
You keep preaching the word of the Lord though. ::)
i am not a religious person....religion is your interpretation...
i retracted the fair weather supporter statement...read the thread
stop spinning it...Carlton supporter and members MUST financially support this club ..by turning up to etihad (a stadium of which I despise) and swiping their membership card
if not, we run the risk of turning into a Fitzroy
I've had differences with Kruddler but I will back him here. He is far from a fair weather supporter, as good a supporter as you'd get. I'm with him, the club to earn their dollars from supporters, not mindlessly follow like football sheep. The club won't change anything otherwise.
you are clearly missing the financial point - if you don't turn up to Etihad you financially kill the club
therefore, you then force the continuation of the messiah culture of carlton where a big financial backer is needed...
the same situation where we have now - at the bottom of the ladder....
you are clearly missing the financial point - if you don't turn up to Etihad you financially kill the club
therefore, you then force the continuation of the messiah culture of carlton where a big financial backer is needed...
the same situation where we have now - at the bottom of the ladder....
As opposed to killing them softly and slowly with incompetence and poor performance.
It's not the supporters who are to blame here.
The supporters have maintained the faith financially for a dozen years with little return on their emotional investment
It's successive poor decisions at board and administrative level that have bought us to this point.
That shows little sign of improving as the club through its public declarations has paralysed itself.
As opposed to killing them softly and slowly with incompetence and poor performance.
It's not the supporters who are to blame here.
The supporters have maintained the faith financially for a dozen years with little return on their emotional investment
It's successive poor decisions at board and administrative level that have bought us to this point.
That shows little sign of improving as the club through its public declarations has paralysed itself.
HELLO!!! :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :))
i have been banging on about the board here from day 1
so all lets put the white flag up and sook into our corners....
HELLO!!! :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :))
i have been banging on about the board here from day 1
so all lets put the white flag up and sook into our corners....
I don't think too many folk disagreed with you regarding the factionalism of the board.
Where we disagree is that one group is any better or different
We're not putting up a white flag.
We're not sooking
It's the complete opposite
We're asking for change.
At the end of the day, we are performing crape on the field. They need all the help they can get. If they can see the supporters there giving support, it might lift them that 5 or 10 percent that they need. They have no confidence and the fact that no one is going to the games just adds to that.
I mean. GWS Cheersquad is larger than the Blues cheersquad that rocked up last night.
Fans need to rally. All I can see is that we are eating our own.
Do be honest it is disgraceful and we should hang our heads in shame
i am not a religious person....religion is your interpretation...
i retracted the fair weather supporter statement...read the thread
stop spinning it...Carlton supporter and members MUST financially support this club ..by turning up to etihad (a stadium of which I despise) and swiping their membership card
if not, we run the risk of turning into a Fitzroy
OK preacher boy, you tell me to read the thread then disregard the financial contribution I make to the club, with no benefit for me. There is no spin here, it's how I feel and what I do. As for you totally missing the comparison with born again Christianity and thinking that I'm saying you're religious.....OMG!
Telling Kruddler he is not a fair weather supporter but a football guru, then have the eye rolling icon afterwards is not a retraction either.
Understanding why you cannot see the other side of an argument like most of the intelligent people on here.
@raydan
...whatever. .....
I got my first CFC membership in 1964 and didn't miss a Melbourne game during our threepeat wooden spoon years, but I'm not rocking up any more until I see some positive signs that the club realises what the problems are, acknowledges them and takes measures to address them.
In my opinion our current plight is directly attributable to our appalling recruiting over many years, yet at the end of last season we traded out pick 7 and attempted to get a "three for one" deal rather than back our judgement and develop young talent, we also traded in hacks for middle rung draft picks.
Judd is Judd and he's been good for the club but we paid a very high price to get him like we did for Thomas, in both cases we were dazzled by names and reputations.
Unless there's some sign that this quick fix mentality is over once and for all I'm staying home, if the club wants to keep running like a school tuck shop they don't deserve my support.
My best guess is that we'll sack Malthouse and nothing else will change, so I've probably seen my last live game for a while.
I got my first CFC membership in 1964 and didn't miss a Melbourne game during our threepeat wooden spoon years, but I'm not rocking up any more until I see some positive signs that the club realises what the problems are, acknowledges them and takes measures to address them.
In my opinion our current plight is directly attributable to our appalling recruiting over many years, yet at the end of last season we traded out pick 7 and attempted to get a "three for one" deal rather than back our judgement and develop young talent, we also traded in hacks for middle rung draft picks.
Judd is Judd and he's been good for the club but we paid a very high price to get him like we did for Thomas, in both cases we were dazzled by names and reputations.
Unless there's some sign that this quick fix mentality is over once and for all I'm staying home, if the club wants to keep running like a school tuck shop they don't deserve my support.
My best guess is that we'll sack Malthouse and nothing else will change, so I've probably seen my last live game for a while.
Are you saying Judd isn't worth what we paid / gave up for him ? IMO, he has delivered in spades and he's worth every cent. I would do the deal again in a heartbeat. You don't say no when arguably the greatest player of his generation wants to come to your club.
@raydan
...whatever. .....
Well reasoned argument, well done.
Well reasoned argument, well done.
Thank you...
I'm kinda thankful we're playing in Sydney next week, solves the conundrum of whether or not to attend.......
Are you saying Judd isn't worth what we paid / gave up for him ? IMO, he has delivered in spades and he's worth every cent. I would do the deal again in a heartbeat. You don't say no when arguably the greatest player of his generation wants to come to your club.
I'm saying that he came at a very high price and ultimately the club won't achieve success while he's a Carlton player, I'm not for a moment questioning his ability or commitment to the club.
We were miles off being a Premiership contender when we recruited Judd and one player was never going to make the difference no matter how good he was, we should have shown patience but it was as much about marketing and membership as it was about winning premierships.
I'm saying that he came at a very high price and ultimately the club won't achieve success while he's a Carlton player, I'm not for a moment questioning his ability or commitment to the club.
We were miles off being a Premiership contender when we recruited Judd and one player was never going to make the difference no matter how good he was, we should have shown patience but it was as much about marketing and membership as it was about winning premierships.
So if we had our time again, you wouldn't go through with the Judd trade ?
So if we had our time again, you wouldn't go through with the Judd trade ?
No, and I wouldn't have traded pick 7 last year either, or paid a squillion for Thomas.
Tom Bell is playing as well as anyone at the moment and he came out of Queensland onto the rookie list, and barring injury he'll be at the club for 10 years plus.
But where are our current ten year players?
Simpson, Carrazzo, Walker and..................?
No, and I wouldn't have traded pick 7 last year either, or paid a squillion for Thomas.
Tom Bell is playing as well as anyone at the moment and he came out of Queensland onto the rookie list, and barring injury he'll be at the club for 10 years plus.
But where are our current ten year players?
Simpson, Carrazzo, Walker and..................?
I agree about pick 7 last year, and I agree about Daisy. But the Judd deal was well worth it IMO. Agree to disagree.
I agree about pick 7 last year, and I agree about Daisy. But the Judd deal was well worth it IMO. Agree to disagree.
No problems, but Josh Kennedy would be handy about now.
I'm kinda thankful we're playing in Sydney next week, solves the conundrum of whether or not to attend.......
What have we become B Man :-[
No problems, but Josh Kennedy would be handy about now.
Really? I'm not sure I understand what you mean. Are you saying if we had JK we wouldn't be in the predicament we are in? Or are you saying put him in our side next week and we would win? The way we are playing now? Not even JC would help us let alone JK. And I say to you also that it is very likely JK would not have developed as much if he stayed with us.
No problems, but Josh Kennedy would be handy about now.
Reckon JK would be standing in the F50 like a spare p&*ck at a Jewish wedding waiting for some decent delivery from our boys. In a better world, I would've wanted both Judd and JK.
Agree....I will pay my membership and attend all games...this year and next year....and the year after....and so on.
The question is are they are wasting your money?
I think they need a hit of reality, free of the saviors they have had in the past, the millionaire and billionaire meddlers, before they get serious about it!
I would've wanted both Judd and JK.
Judd's a broken man now, I've never seen him this way before, it's over for him. They talked him into playing on then announced an "R" word(Flubbo is ROTFL every time he sees a shot of The Judge on TV! EFC couldn't be sunk with 40,000 syringes, but Flubbo sunk Carlton with one "R" word!).
If I was Judd I'd be seriously pissed off with the club, I suspect that "R" decision has made him a Wet Toast player for life and I am not sure that is where he wanted to be! ;)
Our list sold him up the river, instead of copying his example they left him hung out to dry, they didn't stick fat why should we?
And feck me dead, on last night game plan, Chris Judd tagging really???
Really? I'm not sure I understand what you mean. Are you saying if we had JK we wouldn't be in the predicament we are in? Or are you saying put him in our side next week and we would win? The way we are playing now? Not even JC would help us let alone JK.
I'm saying none of those things.
What I'm trying to say is that Judd will be gone at the end of this season and we need to rebuild our list, and a 27 year old gun key forward is something you can rebuild around.
We jumped the gun with Judd and thought we were nearing a Premiership window, Sticks was still talking flags a couple of years ago but we haven't had a Premiership winning list or anything like it since the 1990's.
Judd has pulled in members and sponsorships and helped clean up our image but the only long term way to do all of those things is to win flags, and we haven't come anywhere near winning one since he came to us.
Judd's a broken man now, I've never seen him this way before, it's over for him. They talked him into playing on then announced an "R" word(Flubbo is ROTFL every time he sees a shot of The Judge on TV! EFC couldn't be sunk with 40,000 syringes, but Flubbo sunk Carlton with one "R" word!).
If I was Judd I'd be seriously pissed off with the club, I suspect that "R" decision has made him a Wet Toast player for life and I am not sure that is where he wanted to be! ;)
Mick mentioned in his presser that they wanted to rest Judd this week, who was feeling a little sore. But owing to our injuries, Judd volunteered to play. But he didn't look great last night, that's for sure.
your non attendance does nothing other than to financially penalise the club
if you dont swipe your card at etihad and we dont reach 20,000 crowd , we pay etihad money
last week the club paid $200,000 to Etihad for a 16,000 crowd
no, Im wrong you are not a fair weather supporter, you are a football guru.... ::)
Oh Mozzie, such an apt name.
I'm well aware that the club loses money when nobody turns up.
What you are suggesting doesn't quite make sense though.
I know the club talks in general terms with attendances and profit/losses at games. What you are saying IMO is parroting what the club says.
However, i think the reality isn't so clear cut. Under your situation...
Scenario 1. If we get 19,999 people attend the game and each one of them buys a ticket at the gate. Not 1 single person is a member....because we didn't get 20,000 people there, we pay.
Scenario 2. If we have 20,000 people attend a game, and each one of them uses their membership card to get in, not 1 person buys a ticket at the gate. Then we don't pay Etihad a cent.
In reality,
- under scenario 1, Etihad takes a lot of coin at the gate.
- under scenario 2, Etihad doesn't make a cent.
But you are suggesting that 1 person makes all the difference? BS.
My interpretation of what the club says is that assuming general member/supporter ratio, the break even point is about 20,000. That is not set in stone.
So given i am a member and don't pay at the gate, my (non)attendance makes SFA difference to the bottom line.
Please change the title of this thread to,
"We need to cut the fat!"
Many mentions of The Board. Well, who are they and what exactly is the problem they bring to our current predicament.
Is there a direct link between the Clubs governance and its on-field performance?
The Board:
Jeannie Pratt- VISY. Sponsor. Spends her time spending the familys wealth on Arts, surely is a 'honorary' position given late husbands cash injection.
Marcus Clarke- Barrister. Provides pro-bono legal counsel. Useful, but hardly something that cant be bought when needed at Tribunal
Zac Fried - CEO. Shopping mall developer. Handy during the facility upgrade i suppose.
Ahmed Fahour-CEO. Australia Post. Clearly has exceptional business management skills, a required skill set these days.
Raphael Geminder- CEO. Another seat given to a sponsor (VISY). Does marketing stuff for the Club.
Adrian Gleeson- Ex player with a financial planning certificate. omgwtf
Greg Lee- CEO. Another sponsor seat handed out
Luke Sayers- Networker with business skills. Cant see what new skills he brings.
Craig Mathieson- CEO. Finance and business. Pokies money. Brings in the funds.
So we have 3 seats given to VISY, one of them to a old dame with bags of cash, 6 big time CEO's, a lawyer, a property developer, an ex footballer with a TAFE certificate, and some guy who used to work in Washington.
Whilst we can all identify what type of players we need, can we do the same for the Board. I would be interested in peoples thoughts.
The board make up has a few issues. My first impression is that while many of them have success in business, it is typically from a family business or privately owned perspective. This could lend itself to a less accountable style, compared to the director of a public company where the degree of accountability is greater. Compromise and negotiation may be a less significant skill, as well as the ability to provide broad direction and follow a plan.
Another issue is that as this forum can show sometimes ( ;D) we can very passionate and fly off the handle about footy. Business success does not easily translate into footy success, both requiring a fair degree of detachment. Being on a footy club board is cherished in Melbourne, so could be a bit of an indulgence too.
Its important to remeber that they are all volunteers too, and are probably pretty unhappy about things as we are all here. I dont know any of them either, so it is very difficult to point to particular issues.
No problems, but Josh Kennedy would be handy about now.
Yep but he would have left us as a free agent anyway, as we are not playing well.
That 3 for 1 will work out for us.
Just give it time. Whiley is young, Jaksch barely had a preseason and Boekhorst has played more senior footy than any other player in this draft.
So far it looks like a flat draft with no guns coming out of it.
Patience is required. Not many look good in a team playing how we are.
Patience is required. Not many look good in a team playing how we are.
I've been hearing that about our draft picks for a decade, we've had 4 hits out of about 40 picks and two of those were pick one.
Jaksch might turn out OK but pick 7?
Sellwood was pick 7, Bartel was pick 8, Franklin and Yarran were pick 6.
GWS must still be laughing.
I've been hearing that about our draft picks for a decade, we've had 4 hits out of about 40 picks and two of those were pick one.
Jaksch might turn out OK but pick 7?
Sellwood was pick 7, Bartel was pick 8, Franklin and Yarran were pick 6.
GWS must still be laughing.
Yes, but a few have gone pick seven and not fired a shot.
Have you seen this year's pick.seven, and to give you a few chances, anyone else who is playing that went before Boekhorst?
I reckon the draft can be over rated some years and this might be one of them.
I've been hearing that about our draft picks for a decade, we've had 4 hits out of about 40 picks and two of those were pick one.
Jaksch might turn out OK but pick 7?
Sellwood was pick 7, Bartel was pick 8, Franklin and Yarran were pick 6.
GWS must still be laughing.
Yeah laughing all the way to 4th on the ladder.
I'll still continue to go to games, even though it's really hard to watch.
Been a member every year since 1994.
Sat through the Dark Years under Den Den when things were even worse coz we couldn't even afford footys for the players to train with, had dilapidated facilities etc.
I can do this again, but sure as hell hope we get our sh*t together right this time with the rebuild, both on and off the field.
I'll still continue to go to games, even though it's really hard to watch.
Been a member every year since 1994.
Sat through the Dark Years under Den Den when things were even worse coz we couldn't even afford footys for the players to train with, had dilapidated facilities etc.
I can do this again, but sure as hell hope we get our sh*t together right this time with the rebuild, both on and off the field.
Well done Dominator- we support the club as a whole irrespective of who runs the joint...
Oh Mozzie, such an apt name.
I'm well aware that the club loses money when nobody turns up.
What you are suggesting doesn't quite make sense though.
I know the club talks in general terms with attendances and profit/losses at games. What you are saying IMO is parroting what the club says.
However, i think the reality isn't so clear cut. Under your situation...
Scenario 1. If we get 19,999 people attend the game and each one of them buys a ticket at the gate. Not 1 single person is a member....because we didn't get 20,000 people there, we pay.
Scenario 2. If we have 20,000 people attend a game, and each one of them uses their membership card to get in, not 1 person buys a ticket at the gate. Then we don't pay Etihad a cent.
In reality,
- under scenario 1, Etihad takes a lot of coin at the gate.
- under scenario 2, Etihad doesn't make a cent.
But you are suggesting that 1 person makes all the difference? BS.
My interpretation of what the club says is that assuming general member/supporter ratio, the break even point is about 20,000. That is not set in stone.
So given i am a member and don't pay at the gate, my (non)attendance makes SFA difference to the bottom line.
wrong in red and I never said that...to suggest that my comment was intended to be solely directed to one member will affect the bottom line is intellectually dishonest...
its bleedingly obvious that if all members took your position , financially we will be in receivership..
wrong in red and I never said that...to suggest that my comment was intended to be solely directed to one member will affect the bottom line is intellectually dishonest...
its bleedingly obvious that if all members took your position , financially we will be in receivership..
I know you never said it.....but what you said was wrong.
I was pointing out why it was wrong by expanding on what you said to prove it was wrong.
You can't follow simple logic, so i don't know why i bother. It's like talking to a brick wall with you.
In short, what you said was wrong.
Further to that, if all our members were brainwashed yes-men like you, we'd be stuck with the same administration for eternity because they can do no wrong....forget about winning any flags with 'everything is fine' mantra you've been force fed.
I know you never said it.....but what you said was wrong.
I was pointing out why it was wrong by expanding on what you said to prove it was wrong.
You can't follow simple logic, so i don't know why i bother. It's like talking to a brick wall with you.
In short, what you said was wrong.
Further to that, if all our members were brainwashed yes-men like you, we'd be stuck with the same administration for eternity because they can do no wrong....forget about winning any flags with 'everything is fine' mantra you've been force fed.
My Last comment on this ....to suggest I am a yes man is intellectually dishonest. ...
My Last comment on this ....to suggest I am a yes man is intellectually dishonest. ...
Perhaps we should ask the audience? ;)
(http://www.chriscolotti.us/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/yes_man.jpg)
(http://www.chriscolotti.us/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/yes_man.jpg)
That actually made me LOL.
Only blind fools 'stick fat' when the fat is simply wrong.
Only blind fools 'stick fat' when the fat is simply wrong.
I'm sticking fat, not because I think it will change anything but because I'm Carlton through and through. I've come through the last decade okay, the next decade might be more of the same, but one day we might get to where we need to go, and these crap years will make the up years more enjoyable.
20 years since the last flag is plenty of Fat. Some will see the years out and others will chose not to. It could be another 10 years before we see big success and that will be 30 years between flags. There haven't been too many periods of 30 years without a flag in our clubs past. Stick Fat sometimes sounds like put up with more sh1t as there could be 20 more years of sh1t to come. So suck it up and stop sooking. How about the club does something that gets us in a era like the Cats, Hawks and Swans have experienced. Top 4 clubs for quite a few years and top 8 sides for at least a decade. Multiple flags over 10 years.
Sure that might come, but the key word is "might".
I'm sticking fat, not because I think it will change anything but because I'm Carlton through and through.
I think everyone on this forum is Thry, otherwise we wouldn't be here.
All Carlton supporters are very frustrated at the moment, we thought we'd been through the worst but now we're not so sure it couldn't happen all over again and it leaves a bitter taste.
I'll stick with The Blues because it's who I am, but I hope I see some real and lasting change at the club before I'm done.
I think everyone on this forum is Thry, otherwise we wouldn't be here.
That's right ;)
Even the most critical here are demonstrating they care.
They're motivated by a desire to want the club to be better.
Of course.
It's why despite what we believe or how often we have disagreement we all want the best for it and just have different views on how we get there.
ironically the club want us to stick fat, but they don't do much of that. First sign of weakness and it's out tge door.
If we didn't care for the club, we wouldn't go to any games, or watch any games on TV. We wouldn't come here to vent our feelings and opinions. We would turn to soccer, tennis, volleyball, or netball for that matter. We do care which is why we share our anger here. We just offer threats to throw our love away in anger on how this great club has been managed for so long. I agree with all of us here sharing the same feelings. I just wish the entire club would put the best plan together to get us back to where we were so many years ago. Other clubs have done it so it isn't impossible. We can stick the fat when the upper board level sheds the fat. How about the board members do that for a change, and help rebuild in the most productive way the club can. Then we will stick it for a while because we will see an instant change on the playing field. Players having confidence we will move forward.
Of course.
It's why despite what we believe or how often we have disagreement we all want the best for it and just have different views on how we get there.
ironically the club want us to stick fat, but they don't do much of that. First sign of weakness and it's out tge door.
I would argue they are trying to do that at present. Rightly or wrongly, it's the first sign of unity the upper eschelons of the club have shown for a while.
I would argue they are trying to do that at present. Rightly or wrongly, it's the first sign of unity the upper eschelons of the club have shown for a while.
I think Logiudice and his faction + Trigg are presenting a united front
Do you think though that unity extends
-beyond the ruling faction to other members of the board
-to full support of the coach
-to full support of the playing group
You want me to try and guess or infer, because we have absolutely no way of knowing that for sure.
Appearing to be united is equally as important as being united behind the scenes, for everyone concerned. The fact they haven't caved to media pressure yet is certainly worth something. (Like I said in the previous post, rightly or wrongly). I seem to remember just recently that they came in for some criticism on this very forum for not standing up to the media.
So without trying to second guess motives or agendas that I for one have no knowledge of, outwardly at least, the support for the coach and playing group seems to be there.
got better things to do on a weekend.
From a football purist POV, i d rather watch freo, syd, geelong and hawks go at it
its the old adage, "if you dont give 100% why should i"?
you promised me competitiveness, you promised me confidence.... but now i know
this was a ruse to get my money. I dont support dishonesty.
When this club begins to be honest with themselves and their members...then i will support you
I think Logiudice and his faction + Trigg are presenting a united front
Do you think though that unity extends
-beyond the ruling faction to other members of the board
-to full support of the coach
-to full support of the playing group
No chance.
I would say that our football department mirrors our board level.
Lots of finger pointing, few taking ownership and accountability, and everyone seeming to be waiting for someone to show some initiative.
The pres blinked in RD two and admitted we were rebuilding!
The press were all over it with talk of who's up for trade and what they are worth.
It comes out over the weekend that the "powers" spoke with Gibbs and Murphy to tell them they were "required".
So everyone else on the list KNOWS they are tradeable, If I was Henderson, Yarram, Casboult or any of the other 40 odd I would be telling my manager to get the best deal for me before Carlton tries to do the best deal for them, as the club does not rate them going forward.
This is a complete fiasco from the remnants of an appalling board that has presided over this club for nearly 20 years (pratts time excluded)
I've said it before and I say it again, time for a coup!!!!
If the players are so heart broken after a loss, why is their effort so pitiful out on the ground?
It doesn't make any sense.
The only thing I can think of is that the heart break and tears are selfish and/or hypocritical.
Like probably many others, I'm angry with the players for embarrassing the jumper. We pay them good money and take time out of our week to watch them ply their craft and we are rewarded with the limp efforts of the last few weeks.
It's hard to support or take pride in the club/jumper when the players wearing the jumper and representing the club are showing no passion or pride.
The pres blinked in RD two and admitted we were rebuilding!
The press were all over it with talk of who's up for trade and what they are worth.
It comes out over the weekend that the "powers" spoke with Gibbs and Murphy to tell them they were "required".
So everyone else on the list KNOWS they are tradeable, If I was Henderson, Yarram, Casboult or any of the other 40 odd I would be telling my manager to get the best deal for me before Carlton tries to do the best deal for them, as the club does not rate them going forward.
This is a complete fiasco from the remnants of an appalling board that has presided over this club for nearly 20 years (pratts time excluded)
I've said it before and I say it again, time for a coup!!!!
That's a big mistake IMO by the president.
IMO a club should
never use the term 'rebuilding', whether you are or not. IMO that phrase is insulting to the players who are currently on the list. It can also suggest to them that they are not good enough.
IMO that phrase is insulting to the players who are currently on the list. It can also suggest to them that they are not good enough.
Suggest? Mick flat out says they're not good enough. He's even singled players out.
For God's sake, if the players are that bloody precious that hearing that we are 'rebuilding' has scarred them, and scared them into playing soft, lazy, unaccountable footy, then they are right there demonstrating the exact reason why we need a clean out of the list.
For God's sake, if the players are that bloody precious that hearing that we are 'rebuilding' has scarred them, and scared them into playing soft, lazy, unaccountable footy, then they are right there demonstrating the exact reason why we need a clean out of the list.
When a company announces redundancies what do you think happens? Everyone starts working 16 hours shifts or they go screw this, put in the minimum amount of work and use their time productively for their own benefit?
When a company announces redundancies what do you think happens? Everyone starts working 16 hours shifts or they go screw this, put in the minimum amount of work and use their time productively for their own benefit?
Going through it as we speak
For God's sake, if the players are that bloody precious that hearing that we are 'rebuilding' has scarred them, and scared them into playing soft, lazy, unaccountable footy, then they are right there demonstrating the exact reason why we need a clean out of the list.
x2
If the players are so heart broken after a loss, why is their effort so pitiful out on the ground?
It doesn't make any sense.
The only thing I can think of is that the heart break and tears are selfish and/or hypocritical.
Like probably many others, I'm angry with the players for embarrassing the jumper. We pay them good money and take time out of our week to watch them ply their craft and we are rewarded with the limp efforts of the last few weeks.
It's hard to support or take pride in the club/jumper when the players wearing the jumper and representing the club are showing no passion or pride.
it comes down to one - thing again - LEADERSHIP.
cARLTON HAS SFA - AT ANY LEVEL.
For God's sake, if the players are that bloody precious that hearing that we are 'rebuilding' has scarred them, and scared them into playing soft, lazy, unaccountable footy, then they are right there demonstrating the exact reason why we need a clean out of the list.
I have 4 words for you.................Could not agree more.
Going through it as we speak
Hope it works out for you, redundancies suck, even if you don't get the chop
Our team has been accused of lapses into soft, unaccountable footy for many seasons, and certainly long before the rebuild was publicly announced.
Nevertheless, what I see this season is a new low, and the rebuild announcement could well be the difference between previous seasons' "mild" under performance, and this season's titanic under performance.
FWIW, I agree with IOT. People give respect and effort when they receive it.
Hope it works out for you, redundancies suck, even if you don't get the chop
Very similar to CFC, poor senior management, lack of direction by the board, work has dried up, staff no longer care as they are just waiting for the tap on the shoulder.
The biggest questions if Mick is gone in 2 weeks, is will he see out the season. Will he be told to leave immediately. Who will be caretaker. Then will the crowds increase or decrease in the first game with a new coach. This will determine if supporters are to stick the fat. We could see an almost empty stadium soon.
The biggest questions if Mick is gone in 2 weeks, is will he see out the season. Will he be told to leave immediately. Who will be caretaker. Then will the crowds increase or decrease in the first game with a new coach. This will determine if supporters are to stick the fat. We could see an almost empty stadium soon.
I am sure Trigg and LoGiudice have all the answers to these questions.
The biggest questions if Mick is gone in 2 weeks, is will he see out the season. Will he be told to leave immediately. Who will be caretaker. Then will the crowds increase or decrease in the first game with a new coach. This will determine if supporters are to stick the fat. We could see an almost empty stadium soon.
Footy Classified crew seem to think he will walk when told told its over and wont be part of any caretaker deal, my guess is he will be paid out and sign a deal where he doesnt comment until seasons end.
Think a new coach always has a honeymoon period and crowds will come back a bit...worrying suggestion from FC was that John Worsfold appears to be positioning himself to either apply or may even be ready to be appointed to the job. He wrote some note to the coaches saying he would resign his position as the coaches association president(I think thats his title) if he was going for senior coaching roles...didnt mention Carlton but his timing to return to coaching isnt a coincidence is it?
Like Johnno Brown and dunstall were saying on OTC, you can't waste a season, and that's what will happen if we keep Mick.
Footy Classified crew seem to think he will walk when told told its over and wont be part of any caretaker deal, my guess is he will be paid out and sign a deal where he doesnt comment until seasons end.
Think a new coach always has a honeymoon period and crowds will come back a bit...worrying suggestion from FC was that John Worsfold appears to be positioning himself to either apply or may even be ready to be appointed to the job. He wrote some note to the coaches saying he would resign his position as the coaches association president(I think thats his title) if he was going for senior coaching roles...didnt mention Carlton but his timing to return to coaching isnt a coincidence is it?
Don't you want Woosha?
Who would you like Elwood? Someone from Hawthorn?(not rats)
Are you wanting a thorough search?
Don't you want Woosha?
Who would you like Elwood? Someone from Hawthorn?(not rats)
Are you wanting a thorough search?
Phanto...No to Woosha and Yes I want a proper interview process with some Independents on the panel...No quick appointments or decisions without process or mates
employing mates etc etc....
Can the process of finding a new coach begin straight away. What is the go with interviewing prospective coaches who are tied up at other clubs?
Phanto...No to Woosha and Yes I want a proper interview process with some Independents on the panel...No quick appointments or decisions without process or mates
employing mates etc etc....
Not possible, there hasnt been a selection process since 1978, his the list in Chrono order:
Malthouse
Ratten
Pagan
Brittain
Parkin
Jesaulenko
Walls
Parkin
Jones
Jesaulenko
Not possible, there hasnt been a selection process since 1978, his the list in Chrono order:
Malthouse
Ratten
Pagan
Brittain
Parkin
Jesaulenko
Walls
Parkin
Jones
Jesaulenko
can we interview all of them? ;)