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71
Robert Heatley Stand / Re: Are we "hard" enough
Last post by DJC -
Quote from: PaulP on
I should also add that our our current coach is probably the toughest most uncompromising player of his generation. I'm quite confident that if this hard/soft business was really a thing, he would be asking for more players like him.

I think that’s the key Paul.

Vossy will understand that not all players can be cast from the same mould but he would have little tolerance for “Von Trapp” footballers, if indeed there are any at AFL level. 

I suspect that he wouldn’t have been too impressed with the Joe the Goose biffo that I mentioned in a previous post.  On the other hand, he wouldn’t have tolerated players standing by as Marc Murphy was targeted by the opposition.
72
Robert Heatley Stand / Re: Are we "hard" enough
Last post by PaulP -
Quote from: Gointocarlton on
Agree Pauly, IMO every footballer is hard and tough given the game they play (ie by default).
We need to be "harder" off field IMO, that is more ruthless and not hanging onto nice guys who perennially injured for far too long. Then we all sit and wonder why what appear to be silly selections by the MC occur. Just Imagine if we had players of the footballing calibre of Martin, Marchbank and Cunningham available every week. I would hazard a guess and say that would be worth a couple of extra wins a year (the difference between making the 8 or top 4).

No doubt.

I have at times wondered about the difference between perception and reality, and whether people are led by labels and the media. One catchphrase that immediately comes to mind (there's a few others) is the "unsociable Hawks." I mean, what exactly is this, and how does it manifest itself on game day ? Did our players cop more knees in tackles and more whacks in the head when we played them ? Did they try and cheat the rules more than other teams ? Was it more sledging, more slamming players into the side fence, more whinging to the umpires etc ? And if any of these things are true, what corrective actions did our club take, and if not, why not ? Sometimes I really think the media just give something a name and a direction, a bit of marketing wizardry, and the sheep invariably follow.

I should also add that our our current coach is probably the toughest most uncompromising player of his generation. I'm quite confident that if this hard/soft business was really a thing, he would be asking for more players like him.
73
Robert Heatley Stand / Re: Are we "hard" enough
Last post by ElwoodBlues1 -
I wouldnt call us hard as a team in an old school sense, we have a couple of harder players like Cripps who can look after themselves but I think other teams think they can get at us physically and upset us.
In terms of recruitment we do look for the Von Trapp athlete types who are are of good character and wont rock the boat with undisciplined off field stuff or being a bit different to the rest of the group.
We would never recruit players like Maynard, Ginnivan, DeGoey, Stringer or any other rough diamonds and we play safe with selections. Id prefer we loosened up on that front and looked for footballers first even if they were a bit spicy and backed our system in to manage those players.
When we were successful we always had a few renegades amongst the bunch who were different and maybe played hard off the field but got the job done on the field when it mattered.
JayJay is in his 60's and obviously remembers the good old days like I do but its clear the modern younger supporters see the game different and are happy with a more sanitised approach which conforms with what the AFL want and that characters in the game and extra physicality are not required especially with how the branding of the game has to show safety for players being of higher importance and the game being squeaky clean in all respects.
74
Robert Heatley Stand / Re: Are we "hard" enough
Last post by DJC -
The "hard men" of the football I grew up watching wouldn't last five minutes in today's game.  Even if they could achieve the level of fitness of modern day footballers, umpires all over the ground and TV cameras covering virtually every square centimetre would mean that they would be playing the same sanitised footy as everyone else ... and there's nothing wrong with that.

If you can find the footage on the club website, have a look at Matty Cottrell talking about his grandfather telling him that he should be running through his opponents.  It's a vastly different game to what Len played in the late 1950s.

As G2C is fond of saying, anyone who runs out for an AFL has to be as hard and tough as all get out.  Despite what some fans may think, there are no "soft" AFL players ... and it's mental toughness as a well as physical toughness.

We may have deficiencies in other areas but, if anything, we may be a little too eager to get physical, as suggested by the bit of biffo that allowed Joe Daniher an easy Joe the Goose.
75
Robert Heatley Stand / Re: Are we "hard" enough
Last post by Gointocarlton -
Quote from: PaulP on
I respect that supporters will have a range of opinions, but as a general rule I would never question the hardness of any AFL player. It's neither realistic nor sensible to expect every bloke to play like Mitch Robinson, and if you're going to question someone like Bryce Gibbs, then you should also question someone like Scott Pendlebury. There's room for different types in AFL footy. The salient issue is to be hard to play against, not to be hard per se.

This type of proposition, which broadcasts a kind of "good ol' days" vibe, is similar to laments about players only chasing the paycheck, not bleeding Navy Blue, not playing for the jumper etc. All ill advised and all to be avoided IMO.
Agree Pauly, IMO every footballer is hard and tough given the game they play (ie by default).
We need to be "harder" off field IMO, that is more ruthless and not hanging onto nice guys who perennially injured for far too long. Then we all sit and wonder why what appear to be silly selections by the MC occur. Just Imagine if we had players of the footballing calibre of Martin, Marchbank and Cunningham available every week. I would hazard a guess and say that would be worth a couple of extra wins a year (the difference between making the 8 or top 4).
76
Robert Heatley Stand / Re: Pick your best 22 of 2024 - PART 7 - End of season
Last post by Blue Moon -
At this point of time  my best side for next season is as follows:
Silvagni  Weitering Saad
McGovern Young Newman
Binns Cripps Acres
O.Hollands McKay Moir
Motlop Curnow Kemp
TDK E.Hollands Walsh
Cowan Docherty Cerra Fogarty Cottrell
Players unlucky not to be in the side:
Kennedy Pittonett Hewitt Boyd Cincotta Owies Lord
Players who need to find a role:
Carroll Lemmey Wilson O'Keeffe
Players who need to get on the park:
Williams Fantasia Durdin Durdin
78
Ladies Lounge / Re: AFLW 2023 Rd 4: Carlton vs Geelong at Carlton
Last post by kruddler -
Disappointing our off-season 'gun recruits' via trade/draft are sitting on the emergencies - Duursma and Keck

Its looking like a well balanced side (Good excluded)
Vescio getting pushed back forward after failing at a midfield role (again) is probably the end of that experiement.

Cats are a good side, albeit without Georgie this week....and we are at home.

Who knows.
79
Robert Heatley Stand / Re: Are we "hard" enough
Last post by LP -
Hardness in modern football is the relentless running and repeat efforts, without wanting to be offensive to the greats of the past, the likes of McClure, Dom and Buckley would spew up their ring if they had to run 13km in a game at the intensity of modern footballers!

Most of those pre-80s era blokes hardly left their zone, from that generation maybe only Ashman and a couple of others might be at home aerobically, of the next-Gen types Sheldon, English maybe Marcou would be competitive.

The 90s onwards it was different, basically defined by blokes like Robert Harvey, Flower or Craig Bradley, they are basically the same as modern footballers, Diesel, Kouta, etc., etc.. would be right at home. But people talked about Bradley and Harvey like they were freaks of nature, now they are all like that, and trust me it's as hard as hard gets!

I know that opinion is harsh, those past harder era players the run they had is matched today but by mediums and talls. BigH runs further than most pre-90s onballers. Obviously, modern players might go down like a proverbial "Bag of @#$!" if an 80s era player could actually catch them, but that is something very different.

There is the issue of having the right mix of introverts and extraverts, but you don't want to go too far on that, not like the Dawks, it comes back to bite you!
80
Robert Heatley Stand / Re: Are we "hard" enough
Last post by PaulP -
I respect that supporters will have a range of opinions, but as a general rule I would never question the hardness of any AFL player. It's neither realistic nor sensible to expect every bloke to play like Mitch Robinson, and if you're going to question someone like Bryce Gibbs, then you should also question someone like Scott Pendlebury. There's room for different types in AFL footy. The salient issue is to be hard to play against, not to be hard per se.

This type of proposition, which broadcasts a kind of "good ol' days" vibe, is similar to laments about players only chasing the paycheck, not bleeding Navy Blue, not playing for the jumper etc. All ill advised and all to be avoided IMO.