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Topic: Pre-Game Prattle: AFL Rd 10: Carlton vs St Kilda at Marvel (Read 23555 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: Pre-Game Prattle: AFL Rd 10: Carlton vs St Kilda at Marvel

Reply #165
I'm more than comfortable with all of that and don't disagree with any of it....
But what I'm seeing in some arguments is a greater emphasis and trust to different aspects.
It's natural to choose aspects that support your point of view.
If you're a fan of Bolton it won't be the coaches' fault it's injuries or the players.
If you're not it's all the fault of the coach.
It's occurring on both sides of the discussion.

Let me give an example

SOS says Liam Stocker was really worth pick 6....that sounds brilliant drafting strategy.... we believe the club.
Chris Judd says ….we never expected to be 1 and 8....That's just spin because the club wouldn't have said from the start we expect to be 1 and 8....we don't believe the club.

It's selective choosing to fit a point of view.
It's the same for some arguing in reverse...ignore the good and concentrate on the negatives.

As Capcom says it could fall either way...I suspect Stocker will be a very good player but if we do finish last and Pick 1 turns out to be a superstar he'll always be the one we gave away.
We'll have to wait and see.
It'll change no doubt but right now, as I write, we've given up Pick 1 for a 12 and 19.

(and that's an example of how you spin things to suit an argument)

The bold bit seems to be the crux of your argument re spin.

There is a logical reason which involves no spin, no lies and no misinformation for that whole scenario to work.

Quote
Chris Judd says...we never expected to be 1-8.
No, we probably didn't expect to be 1-8......but we've had some serious setbacks with Docherty being the obvious one, a couple of close losses that could've gone the other way and with a bit of luck we've easily got 4 wins, even with losing Doc.
Quote

That's just spin because the club wouldn't have said from the start we expect to be 1 and 8
No its not spin. Expectations had to be reevaluated. We didn't EXPECT to be 1 and 8, but for reasons mentioned above, we are.
Quote

we don't believe the club
You said yourself, you believe what you want to believe.

 

Re: Pre-Game Prattle: AFL Rd 10: Carlton vs St Kilda at Marvel

Reply #166
Here is my initial post Kruds, that some seem to have taken issue with...

Quote
I think a bit of concern comes from the fact that while you thought we would be bottom 2 Paul, the messages from the club indicate that they certainly didn't (Bolton, Judd comments, trading of the pick last year for Stocker. He may turn out to be a very good player but probably not Pick 1 or 2).

If a poster on a forum is closer to the mark than the football department, that kind of indicates that we're not totally on top of the situation or at the very least we've slipped off the expected pace.

That's basically what you're suggesting ...unexpected influences (reasons)=slipping off the expected pace.
We are not where we thought we'd be.
Judd gave voice to that.
That's what I believe.


I'm sure there are some who would believe the former...we are no longer in control of the situation.

Re: Pre-Game Prattle: AFL Rd 10: Carlton vs St Kilda at Marvel

Reply #167
You can't control everything, injuries/illness, dodgy umpiring, even dodgier MRO decisions, but we need to start controlling what we can control, and that is effort. It actually should be one of the easiest variables to control. You either give it 100% or you play NB's. I'm going to the game today, and I want to see 100% effort from all players for the entire game, if not then I'm not going to be happy

Re: Pre-Game Prattle: AFL Rd 10: Carlton vs St Kilda at Marvel

Reply #168
At the start of the season, I mentioned that I thought we were being sold false hope and that I was being negative.

Blind freddy could see we weren't going to start in red hot form, and lo and behold it happened.

I thought irrespective we'd be in that 16th-12th band of ladder finishes.  Had we won against gold coast like we should have it would likely be the case.

Still there's a bit of water to flow under the bridge yet and I'm expecting a better second half of the year than first.
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: Pre-Game Prattle: AFL Rd 10: Carlton vs St Kilda at Marvel

Reply #169
At the start of the season, I mentioned that I thought we were being sold false hope and that I was being negative.

Blind freddy could see we weren't going to start in red hot form, and lo and behold it happened.

I thought irrespective we'd be in that 16th-12th band of ladder finishes.  Had we won against gold coast like we should have it would likely be the case.

Still there's a bit of water to flow under the bridge yet and I'm expecting a better second half of the year than first.

On the glass almost half full side, we almost took the Tigers after a terrible first quarter and we should have neaten the Pies but for the influence of 4 men in yellow....

Whilst I'm far from certain about Bolton's merits as a senior coach, our best this year has been very good, no question.

The variance between best and worst (efforts) remains our problem.

Part of that is that we have many young guys,part of that is poor selection and poor role choices (eg Curnow up forward, LOB getting games).

The biggest problem is the lack of mature bodied mids top help Crippa eg the need to pick a Bolton and/or Pickett tomorrow. Not to mention the odd decision to not pick and play Kennedy earlier....people say he's slow. Yeah he was slowish last year after a lost pre season and ankle injuries but it was evident to all this year he was leaner and quicker (note he did a 3.12 for the 20m in his combine - and he'd be faster now, no question). For BB to suggest he's too much like Crippa is why he wasn't picked just beggars belief....

Dow, Fish, Walsh, Setters etc will get better but Dow and Setters need to play 2s for a stretch and find his feet by executing the basics well again.
Finals, then 4 in a row!

Re: Pre-Game Prattle: AFL Rd 10: Carlton vs St Kilda at Marvel

Reply #170
https://www.carltonfc.com.au/video/2019-05-24/bolton-kennedy-to-get-his-opportunity

Yet LOB gets picked after showing zilch form in the 2s....even Polson should get a gig ahead of LOB - on merit.

I would have thought Kennedy should be ahead of Setters in thew pecking order and He (MK) would the obvious replacement for Crippa to allow our Captain to rotate forward from time to time....clearly the MC hasn't agreed prior top today  :-[ ::)
Finals, then 4 in a row!

Re: Pre-Game Prattle: AFL Rd 10: Carlton vs St Kilda at Marvel

Reply #171
I think Kennedys extended time in the 2's could be put down to weathering the folau/twitter scandal.

Re: Pre-Game Prattle: AFL Rd 10: Carlton vs St Kilda at Marvel

Reply #172
Fasolo is the emergency not lining up for the NBs.

Re: Pre-Game Prattle: AFL Rd 10: Carlton vs St Kilda at Marvel

Reply #173
I think Kennedys extended time in the 2's could be put down to weathering the folau/twitter scandal.

f... I'M GLAD SOMEONE'S SAID IT!!
Finals, then 4 in a row!

Re: Pre-Game Prattle: AFL Rd 10: Carlton vs St Kilda at Marvel

Reply #174
You can't control everything, injuries/illness, dodgy umpiring, even dodgier MRO decisions, but we need to start controlling what we can control, and that is effort. It actually should be one of the easiest variables to control. You either give it 100% or you play NB's. I'm going to the game today, and I want to see 100% effort from all players for the entire game, if not then I'm not going to be happy

Fair call Jack.
Let’s go BIG !

Re: Pre-Game Prattle: AFL Rd 10: Carlton vs St Kilda at Marvel

Reply #175
Fair call Jack.

Indeed. If someones doesn't put the effort in - or is playing poorly - they should be dropped.

Young Curnow is one who should be playing 2s presently....
Finals, then 4 in a row!

Re: Pre-Game Prattle: AFL Rd 10: Carlton vs St Kilda at Marvel

Reply #176
Indeed. If someones doesn't put the effort in - or is playing poorly - they should be dropped.

Young Curnow is one who should be playing 2s presently....

I've heard this many a time, and while that is correct in an ideal world people are overlooking the obvious.

We haven't got 22 players on our list who are consistently putting effort in, thus, some who deserve to get dropped continue to be picked.

Re: Pre-Game Prattle: AFL Rd 10: Carlton vs St Kilda at Marvel

Reply #177
I think Kennedys extended time in the 2's could be put down to weathering the folau/twitter scandal.

I suspect that it played a part; the club may have wanted to protect the young man from booing.  The Aints fan will probably give it a halfhearted go today though.
“Why don’t you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don’t you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don’t you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?”  Oddball

Re: Pre-Game Prattle: AFL Rd 10: Carlton vs St Kilda at Marvel

Reply #178
Indeed. If someones doesn't put the effort in - or is playing poorly - they should be dropped.

Young Curnow is one who should be playing 2s presently....

You keep repeating this like it’s some sort of fact.
I’m not sure if lack of effort is correct, he doesn’t seem to be getting much reward I’ll agree with you on that.
Let’s go BIG !

Re: Pre-Game Prattle: AFL Rd 10: Carlton vs St Kilda at Marvel

Reply #179
You can't control everything, injuries/illness, dodgy umpiring, even dodgier MRO decisions, but we need to start controlling what we can control, and that is effort. It actually should be one of the easiest variables to control. You either give it 100% or you play NB's. I'm going to the game today, and I want to see 100% effort from all players for the entire game, if not then I'm not going to be happy

I wish i could. I feel like $hit.