Carlton Supporters Club

All ready for tomorrow.

Seems unlikely we will make the finals now and if we did would we be competitive anyway?
PLAY THE KIDS     Give them games and find out if they have a future at Carlton.
That way we will have a future.

While we are doing so rest the injured/out of form older players - no need to even name them
Cheers AB

Joke of a organisation. 
We are 6 years into a rebuild an STILL a bottom tier team. Fail every single time when there is any heat applied to us.
Said it countless times but we have way many D grade footballers to compete with the better teams. The list is bottom tier and the coaching group is weaker then anyone’s in the comp.
Depressing.

We are getting good at these honorable losses  >:(

The absolute surest bet on the planet at the moment is a 3-4 goal loss against a top 8 team.

That last quarter was a disappointment - the rest, alright.

I usually listen to the Coach’s presser but I’m that pissed off with the same same “old” crap from our “young” coach....

We need a clean out on and off the field. We are so far from being a good side. So many players that promise so much but deliver so little. Our coaching lacks creativity and reeks or predictability. I am.so dis heartened, year after year I build up my belief in what we are doing and never learn. My son is now a teenager and never known a good Carlton side. A generation of supporters are just about done and the club has no one but themselves to blame.

Lloyd or Teague? Someone has to pay for this failure.

Seems unlikely we will make the finals now and if we did would we be competitive anyway?
PLAY THE KIDS     Give them games and find out if they have a future at Carlton.
That way we will have a future.

While we are doing so rest the injured/out of form older players - no need to even name them
Cheers AB

We are always competitive. Just that we don't win.

Good clubs love playing us. They know they are going to get a very good workout but also know they are going to win too.

Lapses, lapses lapses.

3 big ones today. Late in the 1st, late in the 2nd, start of the last. Do ok for the rest of it.

How many more could be win without them. We are "lapses" away from being a decent team. Why can't we fix them?

The thing is the women did the exact same thing in near every game too. What is pervading through the club?

Time for a rebuild. Trade Cripps, Jones and Docherty.

The absolute surest bet on the planet at the moment is a 3-4 goal loss against a top 8 team.

That last quarter was a disappointment - the rest, alright.

We just 'stagger' when we need to stand tall....every bloody time, every bloody week.

When you get 4-5 freebie goals off the umps which is unusual for us you have to worry when you dont have a decent lead.
We control a lot of play but dont profit from it enough and you know the decent teams will get their turn controlling the game
at some stage and make you pay and thats what happened especially in the last quarter.
Heeney was a pain in the Ar$e all game and Newman couldnt go with him and we needed an alternative but didnt have one.
Rucks were even, I was hoping we might get an edge with Hickey out and Sinclair one out vs Pittonet and TDK but the Swans player held his own. Cripps was very good today, kicked goals, won contested footy and used it better than he usually does..
Walsh was ok  but by his high standards it was just an ok game, think he had Parker on his tail all day and the Swans dont give you much room to move.
Buddy kicked his three goals and was dangerous but Jones did ok and I thought Weitering was our next best after Cripps.
Martin needed the run and was quiet, Williams was ok and while not brilliant I thought he was steady along with Saad who didnt get much room to run either and he also found the Swans a lot tougher to get away from.
Harry...great first half but got the yips in the last but that wasnt the reason we lost. Eddie..great start to the game but faded, Fogarty was ok at times but like a few of our other players found it tough in the clinches.
Owies...not much from him, ditto Gibbons who got injured. Setterfield wasnt too bad and used the ball ok at times but isnt a high impact type player and isnt the type to win you the big contest like a Heeney or Parker.
Cottrell....wasnt too bad on Florent who was also ok without being great so I'll call that a draw..
Stocker vs Papley was ok till after about midway through the 3/4 and Papley started to lift and became a matchwinner in the last.
Not that Stocker was terrible and I like his aggression, he just needs to watch his kicking and play more attention to his man drifting away from him.
West Coast should suit us better especially with their injuries and away from home record so I expect  a better 100 min performance.

Season over, what to do.

Joke of a organisation. 
We are 6 years into a rebuild an STILL a bottom tier team. Fail every single time when there is any heat applied to us.
Said it countless times but we have way many D grade footballers to compete with the better teams. The list is bottom tier and the coaching group is weaker then anyone’s in the comp.
Depressing.

Time to rebuild the rebuild

Is anyone worried about doch? I just am not seeing leadership from him at all. I know he’s had a tough time over it over the years but he doesn’t stand up when we need him to.

Lapses, lapses lapses.

3 big ones today. Late in the 1st, late in the 2nd, start of the last. Do ok for the rest of it.

How many more could be win without them. We are "lapses" away from being a decent team. Why can't we fix them?

The thing is the women did the exact same thing in near every game too. What is pervading through the club?

Yep agrees 100% with this.

crap the bed again. Playing great football had them on the back foot and then go to sleep.

We need a clean out on and off the field. We are so far from being a good side. So many players that promise so much but deliver so little. Our coaching lacks creativity and reeks or predictability. I am.so dis heartened, year after year I build up my belief in what we are doing and never learn. My son is now a teenager and never known a good Carlton side. A generation of supporters are just about done and the club has no one but themselves to blame.

Cheats have gone passed us giving us wind burn on the way.

Lloyd or Teague? Someone has to pay for this failure.

Lloyd first IMO

Is anyone worried about doch? I just am not seeing leadership from him at all. I know he’s had a tough time over it over the years but he doesn’t stand up when we need him to.

Played ok last week, the Swans grind you down, its relentless contested ball and tackling and a lot of their small to mid sized player are also good in the air, he looked a bit tired and sore to me late in the game.

 Williams  needs to be dropped  he was brought in for his hardness around  the ball he had exactly  0 tackles today, definetly not getting our money's worth.

Cheats have gone passed us giving us wind burn on the way.

Mate, not only them. 5 years ago Essenscum were last on the ladder and Brisbane were second last!! 4 years ago the Lions won the spoon. Now they're in contention for a flag while we languish in the same bottom 6.

I fail to see why we rushed Martin back for this game.  I'm getting tired waiting for this this bloke to actually deliver.  

Mate, not only them. 5 years ago Essenscum were last on the ladder and Brisbane were second last!! 4 years ago the Lions won the spoon. Now they're in contention for a flag while we languish in the same bottom 6.

Only upside for me to this season, would be happy for Robbo to get a premiership!

Played ok last week, the Swans grind you down, its relentless contested ball and tackling and a lot of their small to mid sized player are also good in the air, he looked a bit tired and sore to me last in the game.

I think if you line them both up man on man, most of their blokes are better than most of our blokes.
Having said that, we have seen less talented teams fire up with grit and determination and beat much fancied opposition. Its rarely us though. Too many of our blokes dont do the little things or 1% anywhere near often enough. The main ones are:
- Find a man and not let them get into a position to mark or gather uncontested.
- Run hard to close in and apply pressure. I can recall one where a fwd took a mark and Levi made no effort to get across and spoil. There was a passage of play in the last where Murphy and SOS were contesting the ball, SOS busted a gut to give second and third efforts, Murph just sat off and didn't help. That mentality is killing us. In contrast, they hunted us in numbers, closed in at every opportunity to minimise our space. Result? 3-4 goal loss.

If pre match we were told that Buddy would be held to 3 goals , we’d take it every day of the week. I thought Jones stuck to the task really well. That loss wasn’t his fault. A bit of scoreboard pressure from H would have been handy!!!

Mate, not only them. 5 years ago Essenscum were last on the ladder and Brisbane were second last!! 4 years ago the Lions won the spoon. Now they're in contention for a flag while we languish in the same bottom 6.

Yep, reason I picked them is many on here rubbish them and reckon our list is better. Apart from a few obvious ones, our list is extremely ordinary.

Yep, reason I picked them is many on here rubbish them and reckon our list is better. Apart from a few obvious ones, our list is extremely ordinary.

Tough to ground zero out and build a totally strong list. Too many positions need to be filled. Draft picks can be flukey so tough to be fully successful. Did terrific with the talls but some of the smaller ones have struggled. Usually the other way around.

Thing is we are only those bloody lapses away from being a decent team still.  None hammers us, we just beat ourselves often.

Lloyd first IMO

Think it will be Teague, cant see Liddle knifing one of his inner crew like Lloyd...lose to West Coast and the wheels might start turning for a new coach. I wouldnt sack Teague and dont think its his fault we have struggled this season but we know the Carlton way is to axe the coach first and he is under real pressure to deliver a positive win ratio for the rest of the season.

I’m now convinced the way we play makes us fans believe we are very close to being a finals team just need a few players here and there, maybe need to tweak the coaching group and we are ready to explore.
Well its time to accept we are delusional and have been sold a dud. We play free flowing footy that when the pressure is light on early in a game we can look good but when the opposition go up a gear we can’t go with them. That’s when the opposition usually pile on a run of goals that we can’t stop. We have bugger all depth and as a result the minute we get more then a few injuries we are forced to play way too many that a reserve grade footballers at best.
We are 6 years into a rebuild and imo it’s time to say the list build as a whole is a failure.
No depth in the ruck we have a reserve grade ruckman and a young promising kid as a back up. Nothing else after that. Stupid list development  again.
The midfield is 3 players at least away from competing with the best teams. Min 3 yet again in the off season we do nothing to rectify it.
The defence gets burnt every fking week from the same sort of smart quick forwards yet we trade in more running loose flankers which we are now over stocked in. Again just dumb.
The forwards line has Harry and maybe Charlie then either kids or seniors filling the voids.
And the safest part is apart from Cunningham, fisher and Charlie who are we missing that will really make a difference? Enough with the excuses. Sick of teams below us overtaking us year after year after year. Essendon have lost a ton of players and still get big scalps.
And I won’t even bother discussing the rabble of a coaching group. So many of the same old duds we have had for the last decade.
Been a member for a long time but i definitely won’t be extended the run.
Sorry if I sound negative but enough is enough with all the positive spin BS. Time to call it as it is

It's just a joke how we refuse to try something different. Gibbons getting another game was ridiculous. Levi being bought back was ridiculous. Teague threw TDK into the ruck in the 3rd, got us going and then started Pitt at the centre bounce in the last. Ridiculous.
Newman was a disaster today.
Setterfield had about 10 good minutes.
Cottrell played well early and then dropped right off.
Owies quiet
Saad very quiet by his standards
Williams had patches but generally quiet.
Doc a shocker.
Fogarty a shocker.
Pitt just doesn't do enough. I'd rather just play TDK on the ball all game and if he needs a rest use a mid-size swap ala Richmond.
Stocker really had an average day but he gets creds cause he has some mongrel at least. Frankly I'd just play him in the guts
Where to go from here. I'd experiment with some guys. Time to see if they are really up to it.
Dow, if he isn't injured, should be played. Never should have been dropped in the first place.
Honey has been in the emergencies for 2 weeks. time he gets a run.
Kennedy has been way, way better in the VFL than Setterfield so why shouldn't he be given a run.
In fact the Kemp highlights from last week were enough for me. Throw him in.
I really don't know where we go from here.

Mate, not only them. 5 years ago Essenscum were last on the ladder and Brisbane were second last!! 4 years ago the Lions won the spoon. Now they're in contention for a flag while we languish in the same bottom 6.

If you embark on a massive, scorched earth rebuild, plus change 2 coaches in that time, plus change list manager twice, plus change CEO, plus change high performance manager, and all the rest, you end up with a club struggling for stability and continuity. Our players link up like Foreign Legionnaires because that's exactly what they are. You will not find anywhere near the number of changes at Lions or Bombers.

Jesus Kruddler. Are the official Carlton apologist?

If you refuse to acknowledge the crapness at all levels of the club, that's fine. But let others comment on what they see and to be honest what most see, bar you. crap skills, crap game plan and crap coaching.

The same crap week after week... It ain't no fluke...

I refuse to accept the crapness at all levels that you and bignic harp on about because it is NOT at all levels.

There are plenty of positives. Getting a giant broom and sweeping through the whole joint does not help as we'd be getting rid of a lot of the good as well.

THat is my issue with blokes like you and big nic. Sack the lot of them.
It doesn't do anyone any favours.

If you want to improve, start with the worst, and work your way up.
From today...
Gibbons.....yes subbed out, probably lucky to have been picked in the first place. Hamstring or not, he needs a go in the 2nds.
Cottrell....has been giving us SFA for a while now....back to the 2's.
Newnes was sent packing, and he has been more consistent than those 2.

Casboult i thought was good for team balance.....but still isn't fit enough for us, so back to the 2's he goes as well.

Martin gets a 1-week pass because he hasn't played in 2 months. But he needs to lift.

A few others will be next in line once we work through that list. Setterfield being near the top of that list.

So who comes in?
Not a lot to choose from, but Honey would be one. If Dow is fit, he is another one. I'd bring Newnes back as we don't want to go too young and inexperienced all at once, but he could be one of the first ones to go out again.

By all means, criticise the club.....but saying EVERYONE MUST GO is simply ignorant.

Brisbane have gone well past us but I'll reserve my opinion on Essendon.....still relying on unpredictable types like Stringer to win them games and I dont think Merrett, Parish, Heppell, Shiel etc are my idea of a finals winning midfield setup.

Think it will be Teague, cant see Liddle knifing one of his inner crew like Lloyd...lose to West Coast and the wheels might start turning for a new coach. I wouldnt sack Teague and dont think its his fault we have struggled this season but we know the Carlton way is to axe the coach first and he is under real pressure to deliver a positive win ratio for the rest of the season.

The season is dead and buried mate, the heat has started but I reckon Lloyd and the assistants must go first.

There wouldn't be one Carlton supporter here that would have said 13th is acceptable.

It was a guaranteed loss when Levi got picked....not blaming him by the way.

DT and crew have f... all idea.

Plowman out, no Parks? WTF.

Murphy had a good game last week, Gibbo been laying crape....Gibbo picked.

Stupid, stupid, stupid.

Line in the sand game

I’d say Teague is very close to gone along with slew of assistants.

Unfortunately we’ve got very little depth but we can now use the rest of the year as a trial for our high potential younger players on the edge of the team - think SPS, Honey and Dow. Tell them we’ll play them in the 1s for the rest of the year and let’s see what they’ve got once and for all.

At this stage, acknowledging that we may be forced to out of necessity, we gain and learn nothing playing the likes of Casboult, Murphy, Newnes, Gibbons, Plowman etc

Brisbane have gone well past us but I'll reserve my opinion on Essendon.....still relying on unpredictable types like Stringer to win them games and I dont think Merrett, Parish, Heppell, Shiel etc are my idea of a finals winning midfield setup.

The lion were the team we started rebuilding the same time as. We laughed because we got Weitering and they got Schache. Didn't matter in the end.

The season is dead and buried mate, the heat has started but I reckon Lloyd and the assistants must go first.

Watch us kill it during the 2nd half of the year when the pressure is off and no reason to $hit our pants in important situations.

Issues are lapses and the ability to handle pressure in important games. Like late last year when finals beckoned and we $hit our pants in big last qtrs. Twice this year, dogs and Swans, 3 times last year against Geelong, early in the year, which we held on to win by 2pts after a 7 goal lead, Collingwood and GWS in consecutive games late in the year when finals beckoned. Fix those and we'd be a finals teams. We need alot more to take a step after that though.

We just don't get hammered. Only 2 defeats over 5 goals under Teague, which is way better than previous, but we seem happy being entertaining losers without the drive to want to take the next step. After 20 years that losers mentality is caked right in to their mindset.

There wouldn't be one Carlton supporter here that would have said 13th is acceptable.

Has the season finished?
Losses against...
1 - Dees
2 - Dogs
3 - Lions
5 - Port
6 - Swans
8 - Tigers

Wins against....
9 - Bombers
10 - Freo
14 - Gold Coast
17 - Hawks

Also loss against....
16 - Pies - Our worst game for the year.

Notice a pattern here?
We lose against the top 8.
We beat the sides outside the 8.
....and we had 1 terrible showing against the Pies.

If that trend continues....
We play 3 games against sides in the 8......lets say we lose all of them.
We play 8 games against sides outside the 8......lets say we win all but 1 of them (like the pies loss)

That means from here we go 7-4 we are currently 4-7.
That means we end the year with 11-11.....and thats IF we simply continue at the current pace we are going at.
What happens if we actually improve?!

So tell me again, why is the sky falling?

There wouldn't be one Carlton supporter here that would have said 13th is acceptable.

I think if you go back through the pre-season threads you'll find quite a few that had us bottom 6.

We burnt the footy today, panicking under a bit of pressure, wasted many golden opportunities. Just like a couple of weeks back, we should have been 5 or 6 goals up not just 3, we let them back in!

We need a clean out on and off the field. We are so far from being a good side. So many players that promise so much but deliver so little. Our coaching lacks creativity and reeks or predictability. I am.so dis heartened, year after year I build up my belief in what we are doing and never learn. My son is now a teenager and never known a good Carlton side. A generation of supporters are just about done and the club has no one but themselves to blame.

Oh, I think injuries have their share as well: we haven't had a full list once this century. Not even for a single game.

But you are right in essence.
[1]Our game plan lacks spark. It is too predictable for our opponents, but not predictable enough for our players.
[2] For all the positives about it, and there are positives, when it gets to the forward line, we forget everything and bomb the ball too often.
[3] We still have the structural problems we've had for years. We do not seem to attract mature recruits, the way Melbourne has. We do not develop enough of our draftees. Not one of them looks like making the contribution that Sydney's are making.
[4] For a side with the best fitness man i the business, we fail repeatedly in last quarters.
[5] Our disposal simply doesn't seem to improve, no matter how many times we identify the problem.

We have a few false dawns, and we do have some underlying talent, but even Hawthorn have a better game structure than we do and they are hopeless.
I like Teague, but we don't appear to making any progress. We still show the ineptitude that has become synonymous with Carlton this century. 

Ground hog day.

Ground hog year. Maybe a little worse than last year.

I heard a commentator say, when the camera was on our coaching box, that Barker was our brains trust. The end.

It was a guaranteed loss when Levi got picked....not blaming him by the way.

DT and crew have f... all idea.

Plowman out, no Parks? WTF.

Murphy had a good game last week, Gibbo been laying crape....Gibbo picked.

Stupid, stupid, stupid.

Yep agree but the sad reality is it is always the same names every week that we want in one week, out next, then in ......

We have absolutely no depth which is a disgrace considering the amount of changes this club has made. Who in the 2nds is playing a really high standard that demands selection ? Maybe honey but that's about it. 

Apart from one eyed supporters guys like Kennedy, Murphy, Dow, LOB, Setterfield, Gibbons, Casboult, Newnes, Williamson and probably even SPS are reserve grade footballers trying to play to senior level so swapping blokes for anyone on this list is really shuffling the deck chairs is only a short term fix at best.

Notice a pattern here?

Yes I do as do so many others on this site. You and laj "the mathematician" fail to acknowledge the facts.

You both keep harping on about, if we didn't lose that quarter or didn't lose that game, everything would be different and the all time classic lines from laj like:

"If we didn't have to many 4 goal run ons we'd be in the eight" ... Really? The guy is a genius. I'm sure Carlton are PMing him asking for his phone number so they can get him in the coaches box asap! 🤣

Stop making crap up and pretending everything is ok. It's not...

Yes I do as do so many others on this site. You and laj "the mathematician" fail to acknowledge the facts.

....

Stop making crap up and pretending everything is ok. It's not...

Firstly, don't lump me in with laj. Address him separately thanks.

Secondly....you are failing to acknowledge the facts. Everything i said was factual.
If we continue the trend, we end up 11-11....even taking into account a game we lose but should win.

I'm not pretending everything is OK.
I'm pointing out it is not as bad as you and others are making out.

Yes I do as do so many others on this site. You and laj "the mathematician" fail to acknowledge the facts.

You both keep harping on about, if we didn't lose that quarter or didn't lose that game, everything would be different and the all time classic lines from laj like:

"If we didn't have to many 4 goal run ons we'd be in the eight" ... Really? The guy is a genius. I'm sure Carlton are PMing him asking for his phone number so they can get him in the coaches box asap! 🤣

Stop making crap up and pretending everything is ok. It's not...

You're here. We must've lost. I'll chat with those I respect. Just think you're a clueless wonder. Others at least analyse what goes wrong. You're just here to bag. We call those types tossers.

Jog on.

Slowly getting the blood pressure down after another apoplectic experience watching "Teagues Teasers" destroy our blind faith again...he is clueless.....Buddy is on and has destroyed Jonesy before.....switch early to Weiters

We keep allowing Levi to try and make short passes...friggin HB or belt it long...better still not be selected

38% kicking efficiecny Q2...cant hit the side of the barn from 20-30m..do we actually practice our kicking skills at training or we just recruit crap kicks as a matter of practice

Newman kicks 2 lollipop passes into the middle and both intercepted and goals against

Heeney torched us again...any thoughts on switching his man..agreed tough matchup as he plays tall/small but try something!

Crippa played great but his turnovers are killing us...underground HB to Curnow of all people....goal against

Docherty's a worry that fresh air kick in defense =another goal

Setterfield too loose in defence in chasing Kennedy down= another goal

RED TIME GOALS...I reckon we have worst record in AFL for goals scored in last 5 mins of every QTr.....I can't watch it have to go outside ground or home cos we cough up plenty time in time out

Coaching panel...can anyone tell me how John Barker still sits in the coaching box and draws a paycheck for the last 10 years? Adds nought

Guess Ill get bagged for being Mr Negative ...but I'm soo over this!

Sydney have been a little inconsistent this season, but when they're on, they're very good. Thus far, they've beaten Brisbane, Richmond and Geelong. That's a fair effort.

Buddy is on and has destroyed Jonesy before.....switch early to Weiters

...

Heeney torched us again...any thoughts on switching his man..agreed tough matchup as he plays tall/small but try something!

Two things...
1. Jones flogged Buddy in the second half. Whatever adjustments were made, it worked in that area.

2. Heeney was a tough matchup. His perfect matchup got suspended last week. Time some start giving Plowman some credit.

Barker just has to go too long around the club with no success he’s used to mediocre. Anyone else been there that long can go too. Went to the Eagles v dons game last night,  WC looked disinterested after halftime got 27 up and then played a chip around hold on to the lead type game for some reason. Bombers took risks breezed past em and they couldn’t start the engine again. Definitely beatable the Eagles they looked old and out of sorts.
We need the right selections but reckon we can beat them even after the crap we served up today.
Still cant figure out why we can’t run out games fitness wise with the better teams, red time goals kill us then we are stuffed in last qtr.  maybe Russell has us in a different training “bloc” to the rest of the league and we will be cherry ripe come finals time LOL

Sydney have been a little inconsistent this season, but when they're on, they're very good. Thus far, they've beaten Brisbane, Richmond and Geelong. That's a fair effort.

Its a good point, one of our problems is you can't account for other teams improving as I have said before. There is probably only one spot up for grabs in the eight as it stands imo and I would have the Swans as a lock to make finals.

Two things...
1. Jones flogged Buddy in the second half. Whatever adjustments were made, it worked in that area.

2. Heeney was a tough matchup. His perfect matchup got suspended last week. Time some start giving Plowman some credit.

Haha haha Plowman perfect for Heaney.

Haha haha Plowman perfect for Heaney.

Someone that can match him in the air, but not be turned around like a pretzel on the ground.

If you watched the pre game presser, Teague spoke about the Plowman suspension, and segued into talking about how he is a very good team player, sacrificing his own game for the good of the team. It didn't take too much dot joining to figure out Teague is a fan, and I get the feeling that the efforts to get Plowman off were partly about making a statement, and partly about wanting him in the team.

So thats why we can't beat anyone above us?

we get spooked because they've knocked off some flag favourites? give me a break... that's exactly why we sit where we are and have for 15 years.....mentality is that we put in honourable efforts and scare a few top teams like Dogs etc for 2/3 quarters and drop our bundles..but gets a pass

Not good enough..want another 10 years of this?....Changes must be made!

We're like the little fellow who spends half the game playing football and the other half watching the butterflies in the trees.
I was going to say 'soft'  but I don't think it's a 'softness' as much as a lack of awareness and concentration.

Guess we know how Plowman got 3rd in the BnF 2 years ago...top 5 last year...that amazed me I must be watching a different game

Marchbank was the GWS jewell we missed for last 18 months due to injury

watched Plowman get torched by Grey etc many times and numerous clangers...what am I missing?

watched Plowman get torched by Grey etc many times and numerous clangers...what am I missing?

You're not missing anything. The guy's a hack as are three quarters of the list. It goes to show how bad we are when a player like Plowman makes the top 5 of the bnf.

The inability of the club not to draft tough uncompromising players with decent foot skills over the past 2 decades beggars belief.

I'm sure that Clarkson has lost none of his coaching skills but has proved this year with Hawthorn that a coach can only do so much with a list containing too many below average players.

If players do not have the skills and/or mental ability to carry out instructions then a coach has no choice but to dumb down the game plan.

Our rebuild has been a failure.  The list is overloaded with below average players caused by poor draft choices and failure to plan for the future.

Teague may or may not be a good coach, but how will we ever know considering the list he has to choose from?  The cupboard is bare - he was handed a poisoned chalice.

For those of us old enough to remember - Carlton of today reminds me of the sides in the past that strong Carlton teams would blow away  in one quarter of good football. 

I wonder whether our fade outs towards the end of so many quarters is due to players giving 100 per cent concentration trying to play to instruction, not being good enough, and mental fatigue setting in.

I'm sure that Clarkson has lost none of his coaching skills but has proved this year with Hawthorn that a coach can only do so much with a list containing too many below average players.

If players do not have the skills and/or mental ability to carry out instructions then a coach has no choice but to dumb down the game plan.

Our rebuild has been a failure.  The list is overloaded with below average players caused by poor draft choices and failure to plan for the future.

Teague may or may not be a good coach, but how will we ever know considering the list he has to choose from?  The cupboard is bare - he was handed a poisoned chalice.

For those of us old enough to remember - Carlton of today reminds me of the sides in the past that strong Carlton teams would blow away  in one quarter of good football. 

I wonder whether our fade outs towards the end of so many quarters is due to players giving 100 per cent concentration trying to play to instruction, not being good enough, and mental fatigue setting in.

Short of a replacement KPD, our list is fine....

In any other system, one of Dow, Kennedy, LOB would be playing consistently good footy now.

SPS would be an A grader.

Cuners was on the cusp of breaking through....

Just back from the game - a few things stood out.

- We have periods where we looked very good - but we never look like we can sustain it or really make the opposition pay when we have the ascendancy
- We are [still] an incredibly predictably dumb team. We make so many basic errors when we have the ball it is embarrassing to watch. Teams know you just put pressure on us, we panic and turn the ball over, and then we get taken apart on the rebound.
- Our lack of organisation and inability to control the ball killed us. The swans defence feasted on our turnovers, especially at half forward to launch probably 75% of their scoring. Their defence is very well drilled and organised, and other than H we caused them no problems. Gibbons, Owies and Silvagni are honest triers, but they aren’t going to win you games against good defenders. Throw in Eddie and Fog and it really is a major worry.
- When the crunch time came mid way thru the 3rd we simply wilted physically and mentally [again]. We looked like we had no idea, no spark, no mongrel, no hunger to win. We are incredibly meek and every opposition knows it. We never looked like we had the desire or skill to match them when they went up a notch. They dominated the last 30 minutes of that game and never looked like losing, they outnumbered us and they were running way harder and were more precise with the ball in the last when the game was there to be won
- Cripps had one of his better games but his skill errors and turnovers are just killers
- The coaching & conditioning group have got a lot to answer for. It just the same stuff week after week and we don’t have any real system to our play when you compare us to a well drilled team like Sydney.

I have the chance to do it all again next week against the WCE. My 11yo son is still to see them actually win a game live so here’s hoping.

@flyboy77 ... with respect, I think our list is far from fine.  Same for another few levels of management

4-7 is a disaster given the expectation of the inner sanctum. Start the independent review process this week of the entire football department and begin the recommended changes immediately. No time like the present.

@flyboy77 ... with respect, I think our list is far from fine.  Same for another few levels of management

Each to their own.

If we can match it or better the top teams for 2 or 3 quarters - but not 4 qtrs. - the problem is between the ears (and therefore the coaching crew)

Cunningham(27), Lloyd(27) and Dawson(20) all had a lot of ball down back and went at around 90% DE each.....thats a lot of easy ball getting used to rebound with not much pressure from our blokes.
Too many one way players who just dont pick up their man, Eddie's game looked ok with his two goals but with 9 possies vs Cunninghams 27 @90%DE it doesnt look so good.

4-7 is a disaster given the expectation of the inner sanctum. Start the independent review process this week of the entire football department and begin the recommended changes immediately. No time like the present.

You know what is a disaster? Our injury list.

Marchbank out for 2 years....lets add another year.
Charlie....miss at least half the year....how much of the second half as well?
Cuners....12 months
New recruit Oscar.....couple of months minimum
Gov gets over his injuries and plays his best game for a while.....2 months!
Fisher and Martin finding their feet.....6+ weeks each.
etc

Expectations need to be adjusted based on real world conditions.

Each to their own.

If we can match it or better the top teams for 2 or 3 quarters - but not 4 qtrs. - the problem is between the ears (and therefore the coaching crew)

This coaching crew has a similar list being in every game for over 2 years now.
Remember the previous coaching crew with a similar list......4 wins from 44 games or whatever the hell it was.

We were coming from a LONG way back. No....we are not there yet, but we are still moving forward and are very much in front of where we were. Don't lose sight of that.

You know what is a disaster? Our injury list.

Marchbank out for 2 years....lets add another year.
Charlie....miss at least half the year....how much of the second half as well?
Cuners....12 months
New recruit Oscar.....couple of months minimum
Gov gets over his injuries and plays his best game for a while.....2 months!
Fisher and Martin finding their feet.....6+ weeks each.
etc
Expectations need to be adjusted based on real world conditions.

Firstly, read my post, "entire football department" which would include why we continually have a horrendous injury list.
Second, not my expectations, "inner sanctum". The Richmond Fwit stated that he expected us to play finals (LOL).

Firstly, read my post, "entire football department" which would include why we continually have a horrendous injury list.
Second, not my expectations, "inner sanctum". The Richmond Fwit stated that he expected us to play finals (LOL).

You know i reckon there are blokes who get paid by the mob who where vertical stripes (any one of the 3 variants) who were saying the same thing. Those 3 teams occupy the bottom 3 spots on the ladder.
Its marketing spin. Why do you keep falling for it?

oh and entire football department......the same ones that have brought us back from Boltons record to the improving side we are today?

This coaching crew has a similar list being in every game for over 2 years now.
Remember the previous coaching crew with a similar list......4 wins from 44 games or whatever the hell it was.

We were coming from a LONG way back. No....we are not there yet, but we are still moving forward and are very much in front of where we were. Don't lose sight of that.

Problem is the natives see us in front of where we were but other teams who started where we were a long way ahead of where we are now. We are not gaining on the pack like we should be.....our progress has to be in excess of the bulk of other teams or we wont catch up.

Each to their own.

If we can match it or better the top teams for 2 or 3 quarters - but not 4 qtrs. - the problem is between the ears (and therefore the coaching crew)

I wish i could agree with this but that’s a very optimistic way to view it.  Imo our problems run deeper then just the coaching group. Matching teams for big portions of a game might look good at a glance but it’s also a common trait of many bottom teams so that does not mean so much to me. It’s a very different story to be able to do it when it matters and we fail with this every single time.
Not saying a proven coach like Clarkson wouldn’t help us but even a coach like him wouldn’t be able to convert our current list into the team we thought this rebuild was going to do and that is one pressing for flags over multiple years.
We need major changes on many levels to get close to that level.

Firstly, read my post, "entire football department" which would include why we continually have a horrendous injury list.
Second, not my expectations, "inner sanctum". The Richmond Fwit stated that he expected us to play finals (LOL).

The Richmond bloke is a marketing man who was trying to sell memberships.....tick for that result however the cost was that level of expectation he sold, but he is lucky he has Teague to blame so he has done his job and left Teague holding the baby...

Problem is the natives see us in front of where we were but other teams who started where we were a long way ahead of where we are now. We are not gaining on the pack like we should be.....our progress has to be in excess of the bulk of other teams or we wont catch up.

Your first 4 words nail it.
"Problem is the natives"

"But Liddle said...."
"But i thought...."
"But but but....."

Look at Melbourne. Up and down more than a yo-yo.
The path to success is not linear. No team goes on a smooth, steady path to success. There are ups and downs.

At the start of the year people were pining for Ratten after what he had done with St. Kilda.
There were times when the bombers had leapfrogged us too......then not....now again...

Forget other teams. Focus on us. Focus on our results. Focus on what is available to us on any given match day.

Lods and I always used to point out that one of the best indicators of how good (or bad) a club is going is by looking at their %.
On any given day a bounce of the ball could be the difference between 4 points and 0.
Instead, % shows you how competitive you are across the whole season.

Currently, on the ladder in terms of wins/losses, we are above 5 teams.
However, looking at %, we are above 8 teams.
Once we start to play more of the teams from the bottom half of the ladder our wins will grow....as will our %.

Whilst I enjoy reading the more optimistic of posters on here and am usually with you or at least wanting to be, the reality is that every single game we’ve been in front we all have that sinking feeling that we will be let down, again. And it did happen today, again.

We just don’t seem to have those players - bar Cripps- that stand up and demand a win for us because damnit we are playing for finals we will do everything we can to make it.  The fourth quarter today was so depressing to watch because we knew how it would go and it did. On multiple occasions I saw our players not putting pressure on! All they had to do was play their guts out for another 25 minutes, put every ounce of themselves into that last 25 minutes to get the win and keep us in finals contention, but nope they didn’t. Cripps did. Harry did but was so exhausted from running up the ground that he then didn’t have the energy left to do what he is there for - kick goals. How often did they just bounce right out of our F50, again and again! Who is there putting pressure on.

These are players who must stand up - Doch - especially! He’s the captain! Setters, so over watching him jog along and not apply pressure! Then there’s Fogarty, owies, stuff all from them.

It’s so frustrating watching this team because we do well in a big patch then just get annihilated and give up!

Problem is the natives see us in front of where we were but other teams who started where we were a long way ahead of where we are now. We are not gaining on the pack like we should be.....our progress has to be in excess of the bulk of other teams or we wont catch up.

Exactly. We are too quick to say ‘yep we are improving’ but it’s a fail if even though we are better then the previous year, the other teams around us or worse below us improve more.
We have been very patient with this rebuild and every year I wait for the big jump up and it never comes.

Your first 4 words nail it.
"Problem is the natives"

"But Liddle said...."
"But i thought...."
"But but but....."

Look at Melbourne. Up and down more than a yo-yo.
The path to success is not linear. No team goes on a smooth, steady path to success. There are ups and downs.

At the start of the year people were pining for Ratten after what he had done with St. Kilda.
There were times when the bombers had leapfrogged us too......then not....now again...

Forget other teams. Focus on us. Focus on our results. Focus on what is available to us on any given match day.

Lods and I always used to point out that one of the best indicators of how good (or bad) a club is going is by looking at their %.
On any given day a bounce of the ball could be the difference between 4 points and 0.
Instead, % shows you how competitive you are across the whole season.

Currently, on the ladder in terms of wins/losses, we are above 5 teams.
However, looking at %, we are above 8 teams.
Once we start to play more of the teams from the bottom half of the ladder our wins will grow....as will our %.

You cant forget the other teams thats the problem, I know success isnt linear always but you need a catalyst to propel you at
a greater rate than the other contenders. eg Petracca and Oliver have gone to the next level. May and Lever are now basically the best duo defensively in the comp....result Melbourne push up the ladder.
I dont see a catalyst for us unless Charlie Curnow comes back firing on all cylinders...

You cant forget the other teams thats the problem, I know success isnt linear always but you need a catalyst to propel you at
a greater rate than the other contenders. eg Petracca and Oliver have gone to the next level. May and Lever our now basically the best duo defensively in the comp....result Melbourne push up the ladder.
I dont see a catalyst for us unless Charlie Curnow comes back firing on all cylinders...

Forget other teams.....well let me put it this way. We have no control over other teams. So don't worry about them. Some will get better. Some will get worse. Worry about improving us (relatively speaking) and the rest will take care of itself.

Its funny you point out Oliver going to another level. Half the blokes on here didn't want him on our list when it was a possibility.
You see the difference being fit and in form can make. Lets look at the same thing with a couple of our blokes.

Last year we ended up 7-10.
If we go 3-3 from our next 6, we end up at 7-10.

WCE in sydney
GWS
Ade
Freo
Cats
Pies

I reckon we will win 3 or more of those games.
So we'll match or better our record from last year......and there is still more games to play....including against North!

Just focus on us, and the rest will take care of itself.

Enough weasel words Kruddler - "percentage says we're improving" is BS and you know it.   Wins are the currency of football and we're not getting enough of them.

Liddle burnt most of his capital knifing SoS and his quote "the time for development is over", well,  let's just say the rank and file have had enough of the marketing spin and without tangible results quickly he'll be down at centre link. 

Enough weasel words Kruddler - "percentage says we're improving" is BS and you know it.   Wins are the currency of football and we're not getting enough of them.

Liddle burnt most of his capital knifing SoS and his quote "the time for development is over", well,  let's just say the rank and file have had enough of the marketing spin and without tangible results quickly he'll be down at centre link. 

BS you reckon?

We've played 11 games. 6 of them have been against teams in the top 8 currently (Since you love %'s so much, that 55% of our games have been against top 8 sides).

From our last 11 games, 3 of them are against top 8 sides. (Thats 27% ;) )

Our average losing margin this year is 22 points.
Our average winning margin is 24 points.

If we continue to beat sides outside the 8, and lose 1 we should win.... at the same average winning margin.
And
If we continue to lose to side in the 8, by the same average losing margin.

At the end of the year we will be
11-11 with a % of 100.9%

So you tell me, is that an improvement?

Blah blah blah blah statistical gobedlygook.   Whatever.  Over it.  If you think we're going to  end up 11-11, bully for you Nostradamus.  Can I have a crystal ball too,  mine's broken.
Also,  you didn't factor in the three losses against teams "we should beat but didn't".   So 8-14 is more likely.

However,  leaving aside pulling predictions from thin air,  in the here and now my eyes see that we're playing poorer footy than 2020.  Last year we beat some good teams (like Geelong), this year we struggle to just beat also rans.  That means we're regressing as a club.  Yes,  GOING BACKWARDS.

Blah blah blah blah statistical gobedlygook.   Whatever.  Over it.  If you think we're going to  end up 11-11, bully for you Nostradamus.  Can I have a crystal ball too,  mine's broken.
Also,  you didn't factor in the three losses against teams "we should beat but didn't".   So 8-13 is more likely.

However,  leaving aside pulling predictions from thin air,  in the here and now my eyes see that we're playing poorer footy than 2020.  Last year we beat some good teams (like Geelong), this year we struggle to just beat also rans.  That means we're regressing as a club.  Yes,  GOING BACKWARDS.

Shows your comprehension skills are about as good as your analytical skills. I did factor in a lose a game we should win already. ;)

Tell me since your crystal ball is broken, look at the pieces on the ground and tell me what you think we'll end up at w/l at the end of the year.

To win 11 games this year means we need to win 7 from our last 11. Not what our current percentage of wins shows. Highly unlikely and almost not possible. The only real count of progress must be wins. Not close losses or could have been results. Percentage, loss averages versus previous years form. With West Coast coming off a loss, then GWS, Adelaide, Fred and Geelong, we could easily see no wins in the next 5 games. We better take sh1t seriously at this club. Some fine tuning needs to start soon. Really soon. Otherwise we won’t get the 8 wins for the season we are heading towards. Am I imagining things, or do other clubs better develop their kids? Just asking the question. I start to sense a pattern. A trend. Playing guys who need a rest. Playing players where they don’t play at their best. Not picking the right squad and not coaching the side to win in the final quarter. Not confident in our next encounter. Might just be me being a fool.

To win 11 games this year means we need to win 7 from our last 11. Not what our current percentage of wins shows. Highly unlikely and almost not possible. The only real count of progress must be wins. Not close losses or could have been results. Percentage, loss averages versus previous years form. With West Coast coming off a loss, then GWS, Adelaide, Fred and Geelong, we could easily see no wins in the next 5 games. We better take sh1t seriously at this club. Some fine tuning needs to start soon. Really soon. Otherwise we won’t get the 8 wins for the season we are heading towards. Am I imagining things, or do other clubs better develop their kids? Just asking the question. I start to sense a pattern. A trend. Playing guys who need a rest. Playing players where they don’t play at their best. Not picking the right squad and not coaching the side to win in the final quarter. Not confident in our next encounter. Might just be me being a fool.

No, I feel the same.

Walsh is a freak and came to us ready made but what youth have we developed?  Who can you honestly say, besides H, has improved. Ok weiters is another but then I can’t think of another,

Dekoning is looking good. But then who else?

Shows your comprehension skills are about as good as your analytical skills. I did factor in a lose a game we should win already. ;)

Tell me since your crystal ball is broken, look at the pieces on the ground and tell me what you think we'll end up at w/l at the end of the year.

A few weeks ago, I said we'd go 9-13, not so sure anymore.
It was the week of the Melb game, here were my predictions
Mel L
Haw W
Syd   L
WC   L
GWS L
Adel W
Fre W
Geel L
Coll   W
NM   W
StK   L
GC W
PA L
GWS L

To win 11 games this year means we need to win 7 from our last 11. Not what our current percentage of wins shows. Highly unlikely and almost not possible. The only real count of progress must be wins. Not close losses or could have been results. Percentage, loss averages versus previous years form. With West Coast coming off a loss, then GWS, Adelaide, Fred and Geelong, we could easily see no wins in the next 5 games. We better take sh1t seriously at this club. Some fine tuning needs to start soon. Really soon. Otherwise we won’t get the 8 wins for the season we are heading towards. Am I imagining things, or do other clubs better develop their kids? Just asking the question. I start to sense a pattern. A trend. Playing guys who need a rest. Playing players where they don’t play at their best. Not picking the right squad and not coaching the side to win in the final quarter. Not confident in our next encounter. Might just be me being a fool.

11-11, not a hope in hell

No, I feel the same.

Walsh is a freak and came to us ready made but what youth have we developed?  Who can you honestly say, besides H, has improved. Ok weiters is another but then I can’t think of another,

Dekoning is looking good. But then who else?

Stocker has clearly improved.
Cuningham improved before doing his knee.
Parks is a positive too.

A few weeks ago, I said we'd go 9-13, not so sure anymore.
It was the week of the Melb game, here were my predictions
Haw W
Syd   L
WC   L
GWS L
Adel W
Fre W
Geel L
Coll   W
NM   W
StK   L
GC W
PA L
GWS L

Win 2 of those games, and we are 11-11.

It must've been an 'up' week for those 2 when you did your predictions.
Both were very average since.

Saints lost by 111.
GWS by 10 goals.

Win 2 of those games, and we are 11-11.

It must've been an 'up' week for those 2 when you did your predictions.
Both were very average since.

Saints lost by 111.
GWS by 10 goals.

Nah they've just owned us for so long, form means nothing. We are Carlton.

Nah they've just owned us for so long, form means nothing. We are Carlton.

Anything is possible.

Even if we end up 9-13 like you predict.
That a win % of 41%.
Last year we had a win % of....yep....41%.
With the injuries we've had this year, you'd just about take that.

....and that is IF we don't win anymore than you predict.

Anything is possible.

Even if we end up 9-13 like you predict.
That a win % of 41%.
Last year we had a win % of....yep....41%.
With the injuries we've had this year, you'd just about take that.

....and that is IF we don't win anymore than you predict.

Its what I expected, however not what the Richmond F-wit and his cohorts expected.

Its what I expected, however not what the Richmond F-wit and his cohorts expected.

lol.....that gets me every time.

Do me a favour....flick the tv over to one of those TV home shopping stations. Watch it for 5 minutes and tell me if you believe everything they are saying too. Let me know. ;)

Just back from the game - a few things stood out.

- We have periods where we looked very good - but we never look like we can sustain it or really make the opposition pay when we have the ascendancy
- We are [still] an incredibly predictably dumb team. We make so many basic errors when we have the ball it is embarrassing to watch. Teams know you just put pressure on us, we panic and turn the ball over, and then we get taken apart on the rebound.
- Our lack of organisation and inability to control the ball killed us. The swans defence feasted on our turnovers, especially at half forward to launch probably 75% of their scoring. Their defence is very well drilled and organised, and other than H we caused them no problems. Gibbons, Owies and Silvagni are honest triers, but they aren’t going to win you games against good defenders. Throw in Eddie and Fog and it really is a major worry.
- When the crunch time came mid way thru the 3rd we simply wilted physically and mentally [again]. We looked like we had no idea, no spark, no mongrel, no hunger to win. We are incredibly meek and every opposition knows it. We never looked like we had the desire or skill to match them when they went up a notch. They dominated the last 30 minutes of that game and never looked like losing, they outnumbered us and they were running way harder and were more precise with the ball in the last when the game was there to be won
- Cripps had one of his better games but his skill errors and turnovers are just killers
- The coaching & conditioning group have got a lot to answer for. It just the same stuff week after week and we don’t have any real system to our play when you compare us to a well drilled team like Sydney.

I have the chance to do it all again next week against the WCE. My 11yo son is still to see them actually win a game live so here’s hoping.

This is our reality.

Too many players lacking the football skills to play at AFL level pressure.

Too many players lacking the mental toughness to see out a full game.  Conservatively, over a full game, we are currently giving up approximately twenty minutes free time to the opposition to kick multiple goals.

Will I be satisfied if we win another 3 or 4 games?  No way.

I will be satisfied when we get the list we were promised 6 years ago, one that is ready and willing to make a real challenge for a place in the 8.

At the moment we supporters grasp on to any scrap of good play in a desperate attempt to remain positive.

As I've said before: this is what a failed rebuild looks like.

This is our reality.

Too many players lacking the football skills to play at AFL level pressure.

Too many players lacking the mental toughness to see out a full game.  Conservatively, over a full game, we are currently giving up approximately twenty minutes free time to the opposition to kick multiple goals.

Will I be satisfied if we win another 3 or 4 games?  No way.

I will be satisfied when we get the list we were promised 6 years ago, one that is ready and willing to make a real challenge for a place in the 8.

At the moment we supporters grasp on to any scrap of good play in a desperate attempt to remain positive.

As I've said before: this is what a failed rebuild looks like.

Its what we do when we don't have the ball that's the biggest problem. We apply SFA pressure and they do what they want.

FWIW, I recall a lot of fans on here being upset because the "Experts" pre-season picked us to finished  on average about 12th or 13th. I thought we could do a little better, maybe finish just outside the 8 but I think I formally picked 9th to 12th in our pre-season survey, always hoping for better though! In my opinion that can still happen so I'm not surprised where we sit right now. I recall some pre-season posts here on the forum were disparaged because a few stated if we won 4 or 5 out of the first 11 we were doing OK, and here we are 4 out of 11!

There is no point carrying on about how badly we are travelling, because outside of blind Carlton faith and hope most had us about where we sit right now.

We are missing a few pieces of the puzzle, some luck and an injury free run being two critical aspects, plus I think we need 50 games in players like De Koning, Fogarty, Philp and Owies.

On top of those not in the team, watching at the weekend I think we have Casboult, Williams, Cripps, Harry, Saad and Newman all playing with injuries that hinder their game style and limit their endurance and mobility. It's one thing to go into games a bit sore, another to have your performance impacted by an injury.

Gibbons, Owies and Silvagni are honest triers, but they aren’t going to win you games against good defenders. Throw in Eddie and Fog and it really is a major worry.

I disagree, I don't think the medium smalls are the problem at all.

Yesterday both Owies and Silvagni should have received obvious frees 20m out dead in front, Owies was slung tackled at the top of the goal square right in front of the umpire, you see the umpire in the video looking straight at them as the camera angle is over the umpires shoulder. The same thing happened to Silvagni earlier in the game, that is a costly 2 goal swing. You don't get it as loud feedback from the commentary team because Ling and Bennett hate us.

Betts is great in a certain scenario, but you can't create that many of those scenarios per game, so we need another avenue. I thought at times last weekend we could have had Williams or Martin push more into deep F50, they are the type that can score in heavy traffic.

Several times yesterday we had players with goal eyes on, BigH at least twice could have swivelled the head and looked left or right to see a team-mate in the open 25m out dead in front but tried to take opponents on and got tackled near the square. Fogarty and Gibbons did similar at least once each.

Gibbons injury is an interesting one because he was probably overdue for a rest anyway, but we might be thin on the ground for replacements.

All those guys play better when McGovern is in the F50 alongside Betts, because unlike BigH, McGovern and Betts do the sacrificial things to bring other players into the game. The kids we have there at the moment get the goals in their eyes and are blinded to the available options.

There was one standout coaching error that cost us big time.   When De Koning went into the ruck halfway through the third, we got back in the game just when it seemed it was all going south.  His tapwork is so much better than Pittonet, and he kicked a big goal to boot.

So who plays in the ruck for the first 15 minutes of the last - Pittonet!  4 straight centre clearances to the Swans and game over.  By the time De Koning got back on the ball, the Swans only had to play keepings off.

Our coaches seem to have no plan other than stick to Plan A.  no wonder we can't stop teams when they get a run-on.

Another season wasted, and to see what Essendon are doing with a list of nobodys makes it even more galling.

Teague is just too late in initiating change .... or instructing players on what is expected and enforcing it.  Slow as treacle.

There was one standout coaching error that cost us big time.   When De Koning went into the ruck halfway through the third, we got back in the game just when it seemed it was all going south.  His tapwork is so much better than Pittonet, and he kicked a big goal to boot.

So who plays in the ruck for the first 15 minutes of the last - Pittonet!  4 straight centre clearances to the Swans and game over.  By the time De Koning got back on the ball, the Swans only had to play keepings off.

Our coaches seem to have no plan other than stick to Plan A.  no wonder we can't stop teams when they get a run-on.

Another season wasted, and to see what Essendon are doing with a list of nobodys makes it even more galling.

From the HS on our last qtr:

 On Sunday, it was the final quarter. The margin at three-quarter time was three points. In the final quarter, the Blues were belted around the footy -12 contested possessions and -8 in ground balls. It allowed Sydney to control the game. The Swans took 41 marks for the quarter, and to put that in context they took 67 in the other three quarters. As a result, Carlton’s pressure was just 155, their fourth-lowest rating in a quarter this year. Simply, they weren’t tough enough for long enough yet again.

What can you say that hasn't been said before. Winners win because they win, losers lose because they lose. We don't play with passion. There is ability and skill to burn, but who really wants to win. I would be playing Dow, SPS, O'Brien and Kennedy next week and in a decent run of games, in place of Owies, Cottrell, Gibbons and Casboult, not for any other reason than that they were high draft picks and they have got to pi$$ or get off the pot. It is time to see what they can actually do. Murphy has five or six games to his 300th, but once there, it is time to say goodbye. And the question is whether Eddie is going to win us a Premiership. We can't go back, we have to go forward.

I read on SEN that Franklin could come under MRO scrutiny for his high hit on Nic Newman.

https://www.sen.com.au/news/2021/05/30/watch-or-franklin-to-face-mro-scrutiny-for-high-bump/

This is our reality.

Too many players lacking the football skills to play at AFL level pressure.

Too many players lacking the mental toughness to see out a full game.  Conservatively, over a full game, we are currently giving up approximately twenty minutes free time to the opposition to kick multiple goals.

Will I be satisfied if we win another 3 or 4 games?  No way.

I will be satisfied when we get the list we were promised 6 years ago, one that is ready and willing to make a real challenge for a place in the 8.

At the moment we supporters grasp on to any scrap of good play in a desperate attempt to remain positive.

As I've said before: this is what a failed rebuild looks like.

Think it is too hard to do such a big rebuild. Too many spots to cover given draft picking can be a flukey exercise. It's been a reasonable rebuild but still too many holes. We are too competitive for it to be a failed rebuild. Much of the issues are mental more than physical. We can dominate good sides, often for 85% of the game, then have a 15 min lapse that screws everything.

We need the willingness to defend alot more when things do go our way. It's the way Teague wants it too given the mighty spray at half time against Hawthorn on the issue. We showed we could defend well after that. Players just don't have the drive, hunger, motivation to want to do it consistently and that's what kills. Problem is we need to dominate for 90% of a game just to have a chance. 

Those opposition run-ons happened in both the men's and women's games, who did it near every game during their season, so what is pervading through the club.

PP....he's got history for the head high stuff. I thought at the time it was a dangerous one.

Once again we let a perfect opportunity slip. Could've won that game and set ourselves up perfectly for a shot at an undermanned WCE this weekend and be perched just outside the 8 leading into the bye. But not to be. Pretty much different game, same result. Too much left to too few. Glaringly obvious that we have one of the shallowest midfields in the competition....Cripps, Walsh, Curnow and then not much else...after all these years of drafting young midfielders. Again, terrible foot skills when the game was on the line....how is it possible in this day and age that we can have such poor kicking efficiency in games? Do we not practice that sort of basic sh#t at training? And just dumb footy at times during games....Docherty might've been finding some reasonable form but some of his brain fades have killed us week after week.

The SCG is a tiny ground but at times it looked like they had 25 blokes out there they had so much space. As someone else pointed out, we can look pretty good when we've got the ball but when the opposition have it, we are terrible and teams just pick us apart at ease.

I love the way Saad plays...he gets it and runs with it and is usually very efficient when he kicks it. But as a pure defender, he's not that good. If he was matched up on Heeney, as it looked, that was a terrible move and it proved to be the difference. I'll get howled down but I think we actually missed Plowman in that game.

Teague seems bereft of any plan B in the coaching box....at least that's how it looks. It might be you could argue lack of personnel but it's getting frustrating as a fan and a viewer when the camera goes to him and he's sitting there with a blank expression on his face and seemingly no emotion. He doesn't have to smash a hole in the wall or destroy a phone, but give us something.

We are a Jekyll and Hyde team.....blistering to watch at some points but absolutely f#cking hopeless at other times....unfortunately it's the latter for more of the time.

Hard to see what changes we can make from here on in? Hope that Charlie gets fit enough to play again this year.....hope that McGovern gets fit and finds form....hope that with a few more games under their belt, TDK and Martin, Williams etc get better.....hope like hell that Walsh, Cripps, Harry or Weitering don't get injured.....or just hope that some of the younger guys in the VFL team do enough to warrant a game and then show some form when they do get a chance? That's a lot of "fingers crossed".

Franklin has a habit of turning his shoulder blade into somebody's face, like using that part of his back exonerates him from a bump charge.

Is that what he did?

Across a few forums I notice fans raging on Pittonet, as you know I'm not his biggest fan and want De Koning accelerated as quickly as possible, but it's a bit unfair on Pittonet this week as I thought he was OK.

Further Pittonet was really done over in the umpiring, particularly by Umpire 17 whoever that is! Sinclair jumped into Pittonet multiple times using his spikes up high with his leg out into Pittonet's gut, and when Pittonet shoved out his arm to defend against it the umpire penalised Pittonet for blocking, it was bullcrap call and it happened more than once. At one bounce the ball came down almost on Sinclair's head and he stuck out a leg to stop Pittonet, and yet Pittonet was penalised for blocking!

We had a lot of talls out there at the weekend, they all at times looked confused and were getting in each others way, this didn't help Pittonet, De Koning or Casboult! But I thought the use of Casboult in D50 allowed Jones and Weitering to go about their work, so it partially worked, probably where it fell down was Casboult is only playing at 80% and not clunking marks.

Franklin has a habit of turning his shoulder blade into somebody's face, like using that part of his back exonerates him from a bump charge.

Is that what he did?

On the link I posted in reply 101 above, there's a twitter account with the footage.

Across a few forums I notice fans raging on Pittonet, as you know I'm not his biggest fan and want De Koning accelerated as quickly as possible, but it's a bit unfair on Pittonet this week as I thought he was OK.

Further Pittonet was really done over in the umpiring, particularly by Umpire 17 whoever that is! Sinclair jumped into Pittonet multiple times using his spikes up high with his leg out into Pittonet's gut, and when Pittonet shoved out his arm to defend against it the umpire penalised Pittonet for blocking, it was bullcrap call and it happened more than once. At one bounce the ball came down almost on Sinclair's head and he stuck out a leg to stop Pittonet, and yet Pittonet was penalised for blocking!

We had a lot of talls out there at the weekend, they all at times looked confused and were getting in each others way!

Team selection this week was really bad.  Too many talls - SCG is not that sort of ground.

https://www.sen.com.au/news/2021/05/31/questions-asked-of-blues-leaders-big-money-recruit-after-four-costly-lapses/

David King goes for scapegoats as per usual, then provides a sweetener in the end :

King remains confident Carlton can become a top eight side if they rectify their defensive frailties.

“It’s not really a David Teague issue, it’s a full leadership issue situation at Carlton that needs to be corrected,” he said.

“I can see them next year being a top four or top six team.

“You’ve got an All-Australian full-back (Jacob Weitering), All-Australian full-forward (Harry McKay), you’ve got an All-Australian young midfielder (Sam Walsh), you’ve got Patrick Cripps, you’ve got the tools.

“Get the rest of it right, get the attitude right and it will come together. I’ve got full faith in it.”

LP....the decision at the opening bounce was bewildering too. Both ruckman jump, both have one knee up and Pittonet gets pegged for blocking...Sydney goal. If they're going to pay those then is there any point in even jumping?

LP....the decision at the opening bounce was bewildering too. Both ruckman jump, both have one knee up and Pittonet gets pegged for blocking...Sydney goal. If they're going to pay those then is there any point in even jumping?

If you don't jump they pay a block almost automatically, they basically penalised Pittonet at that first bounce just for getting his timing wrong and I agree it was a disgraceful decision.

On the link I posted in reply 101 above, there's a twitter account with the footage.

Ta.

That's bullcrap, if Plowman goes Franklin has to go!

If Franklin doesn't go Plowman and Carlton have the right to go to court and sue for compensation as he has been purely discriminated against!

Ta.

That's bullcrap, if Plowman goes Franklin has to go!

If Franklin doesn't go Plowman and Carlton have the right to go to court and sue for compensation as he has been purely discriminated against!

It was pretty crude, and certainly warrants MRO scrutiny.

I read on SEN that Franklin could come under MRO scrutiny for his high hit on Nic Newman.

https://www.sen.com.au/news/2021/05/30/watch-or-franklin-to-face-mro-scrutiny-for-high-bump/

And so he should

And so he should

Yep.

https://www.sen.com.au/news/2021/05/31/questions-asked-of-blues-leaders-big-money-recruit-after-four-costly-lapses/

David King goes for scapegoats as per usual, then provides a sweetener in the end :

King remains confident Carlton can become a top eight side if they rectify their defensive frailties.

“It’s not really a David Teague issue, it’s a full leadership issue situation at Carlton that needs to be corrected,” he said.

“I can see them next year being a top four or top six team.

“You’ve got an All-Australian full-back (Jacob Weitering), All-Australian full-forward (Harry McKay), you’ve got an All-Australian young midfielder (Sam Walsh), you’ve got Patrick Cripps, you’ve got the tools.

“Get the rest of it right, get the attitude right and it will come together. I’ve got full faith in it.”

I listened to King talk about Carlton on SEN this morning, he was quite positive TBH (amongst all the naysayers and doomsday people. He said:
- In 2019 in rnds 1-11, we couldn't score (ave 67pts per game)
- In 2021 rnds 1-11, we are scoring, its our defence that's an issue
- He stated the defence is way easier to fix than scoring
- He stated that we could easily be a top 4 side next year if we tweak a couple of things

Ta.

That's bullcrap, if Plowman goes Franklin has to go!

If Franklin doesn't go Plowman and Carlton have the right to go to court and sue for compensation as he has been purely discriminated against!

Only difference Newman bounced up and JOM was concussed. Franklin will get a fine instead of a suspension I reckon.

https://www.sen.com.au/news/2021/05/31/questions-asked-of-blues-leaders-big-money-recruit-after-four-costly-lapses/

David King goes for scapegoats as per usual, then provides a sweetener in the end :

King remains confident Carlton can become a top eight side if they rectify their defensive frailties.

“It’s not really a David Teague issue, it’s a full leadership issue situation at Carlton that needs to be corrected,” he said.

“I can see them next year being a top four or top six team.

“You’ve got an All-Australian full-back (Jacob Weitering), All-Australian full-forward (Harry McKay), you’ve got an All-Australian young midfielder (Sam Walsh), you’ve got Patrick Cripps, you’ve got the tools.

“Get the rest of it right, get the attitude right and it will come together. I’ve got full faith in it.”

Hmm. So Krud's true identity has been revealed, YOUR DAVID KING!!!  :P  :P

Hmm. So Krud's true identity has been revealed, YOUR DAVID KING!!!  :P  :P

Well its good to know i'm not the only one who sees it, but no, i'm not David King.  :P

There are quite a few in the media who think similar, but they are not at the forefront, more so in the background.

I rate King. He doesn't always get things right, but he does his own analysis and doesn't blindly follow everyone else in simply parrotting that weeks topics. I do the same.

Dermie is kinda similar.....Eddie McGuire has been a wrap for us as well.

Listen guys, we are not that bad.

Well its good to know i'm not the only one who sees it, but no, i'm not David King.  :P

There are quite a few in the media who think similar, but they are not at the forefront, more so in the background.

I rate King. He doesn't always get things right, but he does his own analysis and doesn't blindly follow everyone else in simply parrotting that weeks topics. I do the same.

Dermie is kinda similar.....Eddie McGuire has been a wrap for us as well.

Listen guys, we are not that bad.

Kingy was on Richmonds bandwagon every early in 2017 I recall, one of the very few in the media who was at the time.

We are around the half way mark.
After four pre-season months of " the best we have ever trained", and "we can't wait to get out there", and "we are as determined and close knit a group as this club has ever seen", and all the other associated excrement that Teague has foisted upon us at every press conference, we still lack skills, 120 minute concentration, and players and coaches who have the ability to win us a flag.

To anyone on this site who believes other than the above, I have got a block of ice in Antarctica that I would like to sell you.

Kingy was on Richmonds bandwagon every early in 2017 I recall, one of the very few in the media who was at the time.

He is up to date with modern trends and looks at things that nobody else cares too.

When given time, he is very good.

My only issue is when he has to come up with vision to prove a point from something that just happened and it can be a bit hit and miss.......but thats the way the TV industry is.

As i said, he doesn't always get it right 100% of the time, but nobody does. He spots trends that people don't notice until weeks, months and years later though.

Across a few forums I notice fans raging on Pittonet, as you know I'm not his biggest fan and want De Koning accelerated as quickly as possible, but it's a bit unfair on Pittonet this week as I thought he was OK.

Further Pittonet was really done over in the umpiring, particularly by Umpire 17 whoever that is! Sinclair jumped into Pittonet multiple times using his spikes up high with his leg out into Pittonet's gut, and when Pittonet shoved out his arm to defend against it the umpire penalised Pittonet for blocking, it was bullcrap call and it happened more than once. At one bounce the ball came down almost on Sinclair's head and he stuck out a leg to stop Pittonet, and yet Pittonet was penalised for blocking!

We had a lot of talls out there at the weekend, they all at times looked confused and were getting in each others way, this didn't help Pittonet, De Koning or Casboult! But I thought the use of Casboult in D50 allowed Jones and Weitering to go about their work, so it partially worked, probably where it fell down was Casboult is only playing at 80% and not clunking marks.

I agree with you on Pittonet. He's got the ability, but he needs to direct his hit outs, when he gets one, a hell of a lot better than he does. The biggest thing, I reckon in his favour, is that he's only 24 and ruckmen usually start playing their best footy at 26 plus.

Listen guys, we are not that bad.

Maybe we are worse.  In the eyes of many, we are.  Why?  Failure at the trade table.  Failure in basic training.  Failure in line management.  Failure in tolerating below par performances.      

I agree with you on Pittonet. He's got the ability, but he needs to direct his hit outs, when he gets one, a hell of a lot better than he does. The biggest thing, I reckon in his favour, is that he's only 24 and ruckmen usually start playing their best footy at 26 plus.

I dont understand the Pitto hate this week, I thought our two ruckmen beat their two ruckmen easily. It was after the tap/hitout where our problems began.

I dont understand the Pitto hate this week, I thought our two ruckmen beat their two ruckmen easily. It was after the tap/hitout where our problems began.

I thought it was break even....it was really our two vs Sinclair who I thought did well in the last quarter when they needed him.
Was a bit disappointed we didnt dominate more given their backup was Mclean who is a KP Forward who just does a Casboult in the ruck and not as good. With Hickey out we should have done a lot better IMHO...

I thought it was break even....it was really our two vs Sinclair who I thought did well in the last quarter when they needed him.
Was a bit disappointed we didnt dominate more given their backup was Mclean who is a KP Forward who just does a Casboult in the ruck and not as good. With Hickey out we should have done a lot better IMHO...

Time for my weekly hitout report??

Pittonet had 31 hitouts from 58 contests - He won 53.4% of contests he was in.
He had 8 hitouts to advantage meaning 25.8% of his hitouts went to advantage.
My stat - hitout to advantage from ruck contest % - 13.8%

DeKoning had 13 hitouts from his 28 contests - He won 46.4% of contests he was in.
He had 6 hitouts to advantage meaning 46.2% of his hitouts went to advantage.
My stat - hitout to advantage from ruck contest % - 21.4%

Sinclair had 24 hitouts from 68 contests - He won 35.3% of contests he was in.
He had 5 hitouts to advantage meaning 20.8% of his hitouts went to advantage.
My stat - hitout to advantage from ruck contest % - 7.3%

McLean had 6 hitouts from 16 contests - He won 37.5% of contests he was in.
He had 1 hitout to advantage meaning 16.7% of his hitouts went to advantage.
My stat - hitout to advantage from ruck contest % - 6.2%

As far as ruck craft goes.....we dominated the ruck.

Most of the Heeney highlights saw Saad as his opponent... height and body advantage there.
So was Newman supposed to be his opponent?

Maybe we are worse.  In the eyes of many, we are.  Why?  Failure at the trade table.  Failure in basic training.  Failure in line management.  Failure in tolerating below par performances.      

Whilst another loss where we were in it up to our teeth until 3/4 time is difficult to cop (again), I have to agree with Krudd that we are not that bad.
Couple of points (not picking on players by the way):
- Docs fumbles which cost 2 goals, tidy that up and those 2 goals dont occur
- Vision of Saad sagging back to defend the goal line instead of defending is man, tidy that up and that goal doesnt occur
- Inject fully Charlie and Gov into that side and we dont lose
- Change some coaching staff around Teague and we will be way better off. Teague and and MC are starting to make statements with players like Murphy and SPS but I still think he needs better quality line coaches around him.
- Our best is good enough, about that there is no doubt and we have shown it against all the contenders. We just have to do it longer and be a little bit more ruthless when we do get ahead.
Yesterday, when we got ahead, we did everything right except put the foot on the throat. And that can be done in a number of ways and one of them is getting into your opponents head and intimidating them into submission. Instead, what I saw was Sydney players, despite being down, physically intimidating our blokes into submission. The sooner our blokes as a group truly believe we belong, that will change. Not trying to be a smart ass here but extract Doc out of that side and insert a Selwood or a Hodge into it and we dont lose, nothing surer in my mind. Not because they are superstars, but because they are competitive beasts who know the mind game side of thing better than most. They would have intimidated Syd into believing they were gone and the rest of our blokes would have followed. Instead, Doc for reasons we probably all know, has lost that "kent" he once had and the result was all there to see. Not blaming one man here, just making some points about collective attitude and leadership that we must improve in order to take the next step.

Most of the Heeney highlights saw Saad as his opponent... height and body advantage there.
So was Newman supposed to be his opponent?

At the opening bounce, Gibbo was at Heeneys shoulder and I thought WTF is that, Heeney kicked the opening goal and they changed that immediately.

Time for my weekly hitout report??

Pittonet had 31 hitouts from 58 contests - He won 53.4% of contests he was in.
He had 8 hitouts to advantage meaning 25.8% of his hitouts went to advantage.
My stat - hitout to advantage from ruck contest % - 13.8%

DeKoning had 13 hitouts from his 28 contests - He won 46.4% of contests he was in.
He had 6 hitouts to advantage meaning 46.2% of his hitouts went to advantage.
My stat - hitout to advantage from ruck contest % - 21.4%

Sinclair had 24 hitouts from 68 contests - He won 35.3% of contests he was in.
He had 5 hitouts to advantage meaning 20.8% of his hitouts went to advantage.
My stat - hitout to advantage from ruck contest % - 7.3%

McLean had 6 hitouts from 16 contests - He won 37.5% of contests he was in.
He had 1 hitout to advantage meaning 16.7% of his hitouts went to advantage.
My stat - hitout to advantage from ruck contest % - 6.2%

As far as ruck craft goes.....we dominated the ruck.

Agreed

Whilst another loss where we were in it up to our teeth until 3/4 time is difficult to cop (again), I have to agree with Krudd that we are not that bad.
Couple of points (not picking on players by the way):
- Docs fumbles which cost 2 goals, tidy that up and those 2 goals dont occur
- Vision of Saad sagging back to defend the goal line instead of defending is man, tidy that up and that goal doesnt occur
- Inject fully Charlie and Gov into that side and we dont lose
- Change some coaching staff around Teague and we will be way better off. Teague and and MC are starting to make statements with players like Murphy and SPS but I still think he needs better quality line coaches around him.
- Our best is good enough, about that there is no doubt and we have shown it against all the contenders. We just have to do it longer and be a little bit more ruthless when we do get ahead.
Yesterday, when we got ahead, we did everything right except put the foot on the throat. And that can be done in a number of ways and one of them is getting into your opponents head and intimidating them into submission. Instead, what I saw was Sydney players, despite being down, physically intimidating our blokes into submission. The sooner our blokes as a group truly believe we belong, that will change. Not trying to be a smart ass here but extract Doc out of that side and insert a Selwood or a Hodge into it and we dont lose, nothing surer in my mind. Not because they are superstars, but because they are competitive beasts who know the mind game side of thing better than most. They would have intimidated Syd into believing they were gone and the rest of our blokes would have followed. Instead, Doc for reasons we probably all know, has lost that "kent" he once had and the result was all there to see. Not blaming one man here, just making some points about collective attitude and leadership that we must improve in order to take the next step.

re 'kent'...
There was a bit of push and shove which we instigated which i was pleased about. We can still improve that area though.

I reckon Newnes back in the team for Gibbo (or Cottrell who is almost an invisible man nowadays) will add that little bit of 'kent'. He always flies the flag and doesn't shirk contact. He is a seasoned body who is not intimidated.
Willo used to be that player but is so devoid of confidence that he is not worth persisting with at this stage.
Gov gives us a bit of aggression, but is still weeks away.
Not many blokes not in the 1's we can expect that from, so Newnes should get the gig. It will help us put the foot on the throat a bit more and just lift that little bit extra when the going gets tough.

re 'kent'...
There was a bit of push and shove which we instigated which i was pleased about. We can still improve that area though.

I reckon Newnes back in the team for Gibbo (or Cottrell who is almost an invisible man nowadays) will add that little bit of 'kent'. He always flies the flag and doesn't shirk contact. He is a seasoned body who is not intimidated.
Willo used to be that player but is so devoid of confidence that he is not worth persisting with at this stage.
Gov gives us a bit of aggression, but is still weeks away.
Not many blokes not in the 1's we can expect that from, so Newnes should get the gig. It will help us put the foot on the throat a bit more and just lift that little bit extra when the going gets tough.

Martin doesn't mind getting down and dirty....

Mckay kicked 3.5.
In the third quarter, Fogarty kicked at goal truly only for a mark to be taken on the line.  If that one, and Harry's poster both go in we might have gone on to win the match.

Thats the margin right there guys.  Harry kicks 5.3 instead of 3.5 and we are that much closer too.

When it comes down to it, we werent that bad.

For all the Gibbons haters, he is an onfield coach for us, and plugs a lot of holes that earns him very little on the stats sheet.

He went off, and we crumbled in a way that surprised me.

It just goes to show, that we are still working out a complementary group of players.  I think we have enough of each type, and that our improvement doesnt come from changing players over for another, but getting the group to work together for longer.

re 'kent'...
There was a bit of push and shove which we instigated which i was pleased about. We can still improve that area though.

I reckon Newnes back in the team for Gibbo (or Cottrell who is almost an invisible man nowadays) will add that little bit of 'kent'. He always flies the flag and doesn't shirk contact. He is a seasoned body who is not intimidated.
Willo used to be that player but is so devoid of confidence that he is not worth persisting with at this stage.
Gov gives us a bit of aggression, but is still weeks away.
Not many blokes not in the 1's we can expect that from, so Newnes should get the gig. It will help us put the foot on the throat a bit more and just lift that little bit extra when the going gets tough.

Yeah sure, but I was referring to the skippers. Crippa goes ok, Doc was a ruthless little mongrel when he came to Carlton, I think he's lost that edge. Two knee recos and a bout of cancer will do that I'd imagine.

Mckay kicked 3.5.
In the third quarter, Fogarty kicked at goal truly only for a mark to be taken on the line.  If that one, and Harry's poster both go in we might have gone on to win the match.

Thats the margin right there guys.  Harry kicks 5.3 instead of 3.5 and we are that much closer too.

When it comes down to it, we werent that bad.

For all the Gibbons haters, he is an onfield coach for us, and plugs a lot of holes that earns him very little on the stats sheet.

He went off, and we crumbled in a way that surprised me.

It just goes to show, that we are still working out a complementary group of players.  I think we have enough of each type, and that our improvement doesnt come from changing players over for another, but getting the group to work together for longer.

I thought Harry hit the post twice. 1 at each end.
...although it may have been someone else first.
Either way, we had 2 posters.

....and that doesn't include the betts miracle that hit the back of the post on the bounce.

Time for my weekly hitout report??

Pittonet had 31 hitouts from 58 contests - He won 53.4% of contests he was in.
He had 8 hitouts to advantage meaning 25.8% of his hitouts went to advantage.
My stat - hitout to advantage from ruck contest % - 13.8%

DeKoning had 13 hitouts from his 28 contests - He won 46.4% of contests he was in.
He had 6 hitouts to advantage meaning 46.2% of his hitouts went to advantage.
My stat - hitout to advantage from ruck contest % - 21.4%

Sinclair had 24 hitouts from 68 contests - He won 35.3% of contests he was in.
He had 5 hitouts to advantage meaning 20.8% of his hitouts went to advantage.
My stat - hitout to advantage from ruck contest % - 7.3%

McLean had 6 hitouts from 16 contests - He won 37.5% of contests he was in.
He had 1 hitout to advantage meaning 16.7% of his hitouts went to advantage.
My stat - hitout to advantage from ruck contest % - 6.2%

As far as ruck craft goes.....we dominated the ruck.

Lets look at some other stats.......Total Hitouts Swans 30 vs Carlton 44, Clearances Both teams had 35 each, Centre Clearances 16-12 for the Swans,
 Stoppage Clearances..think we had the edge by 3-4......in short for 14 extra tapouts we really didnt dominate at all.
Pittonet and DeKoning had one mark between them, Sinclair had six.........Pittonet had -10 metres gained so he was stuck in reverse after every stoppage. For the 14 extra hitouts we had they didnt amount to any outstanding dominance as far as resulting play goes and our two rucks were shizen around the ground.
With Hickey out we needed to really dominate the ruck, we essentially played three ruckman vs their No2 ruck and a part time inexperienced kid forward. If that was a dominating performance from our blokes then the bar is set low.....

Lets look at some other stats.......Total Hitouts Swans 30 vs Carlton 44, Clearances Both teams had 35 each, Centre Clearances 16-12 for the Swans,
 Stoppage Clearances..think we had the edge by 3-4......in short for 14 extra tapouts we really didnt dominate at all.
Pittonet and DeKoning had one mark between them, Sinclair had six.........Pittonet had -10 metres gained so he was stuck in reverse after every stoppage. For the 14 extra hitouts we had they didnt amount to any outstanding dominance as far as resulting play goes and our two rucks were shizen around the ground.
With Hickey out we needed to really dominate the ruck, we essentially played three ruckman vs their No2 ruck and a part time inexperienced kid forward. If that was a dominating performance from our blokes then the bar is set low.....

Read the last line i wrote.

Read the last line i wrote.

Dominated ruck craft, yes I read that....not sure I would call 14 extra hitouts domination vs their second string setup.
30-40 extra I would call domination. 14 extra when their main ruck was out was very average IMO and when you add that to what Malcom Blight would call pathetic Pittonet and DeKoning around the ground then it was a very underwhelming performance overall. If NicNat gets 14 more hitouts than our blokes next week I'll be calling that a win for us, not domination from the WC AA ruck....

Mckay kicked 3.5.
In the third quarter, Fogarty kicked at goal truly only for a mark to be taken on the line.  If that one, and Harry's poster both go in we might have gone on to win the match. Yep. We were attacking attacking and attacking for no results. Just though at the time that if we get a couple of more goals it could be the spark for us to put the foot on the throat. But Sydney kept defending, desperate spoils, tackles, and moved the ball to their forward line and scored goals. It was like we have thrown our best at them and we still cannot put them away. Hence maybe the 4th quarter fade out.

Thats the margin right there guys.  Harry kicks 5.3 instead of 3.5 and we are that much closer too. Papley got into it in the second half. His opponent, Stocker, was ball watching a couple of time and Papley got out the back were he got the ball and scored a goals. Maybe the wrong matchup for him at the time.

When it comes down to it, we werent that bad.

For all the Gibbons haters, he is an onfield coach for us, and plugs a lot of holes that earns him very little on the stats sheet.

He went off, and we crumbled in a way that surprised me.

It just goes to show, that we are still working out a complementary group of players.  I think we have enough of each type, and that our improvement doesnt come from changing players over for another, but getting the group to work together for longer.

Let's not go overboard Pittonet was OK but he had very little influence, but then none of the rucks did!

It's bit hard to tell when you have such crap umpiring, multiple bad decisions directly generated at least 3 or 4 Swan's goals.

Thought we got the rub of the green.

Coaches' votes :

Sydney v Carlton
10 Isaac Heeney (SYD)
6 Patrick Cripps (CARL)
4 Jake Lloyd (SYD)
4 Harry McKay (CARL)
3 Harry Cunningham (SYD)
2 Josh Kennedy (SYD)
1 Tom Papley (SYD)

Sam Walsh currently sits 8th overall.

Thought we got the rub of the green.

You can't confuse the overall count with the consequences of individual decisions or non-decisions.

I'm assuming all that early good luck, and the associated booing ferals, is the reason why we missed out on getting several frees inside our F50 later in the game.

Well (to state the obvious) I guess it boils down to this...
No firm decisions need to be made just yet (although I suspect some already have) but...
The second half of this season is going to determine the careers of a number of players and coaches.
It's in their hands.

Coaches' votes :

Sydney v Carlton
10 Isaac Heeney (SYD)
6 Patrick Cripps (CARL)
4 Jake Lloyd (SYD)
4 Harry McKay (CARL)
3 Harry Cunningham (SYD)
2 Josh Kennedy (SYD)
1 Tom Papley (SYD)

Sam Walsh currently sits 8th overall.

Couple of lazy Carlton smalls who couldnt be bothered chasing or manning up the two Swans vote winning rebounders
in Cunningham and Lloyd. The stats back up those votes.....

https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/teams/sydney-swans/dermott-brereton-slams-callum-mills-for-breaking-afls-unwritten-code/news-story/4a3486d09ee9e5244efd936bf78ca465?fbclid=IwAR3BzDB5VzjYseSFmT6zBdyxOBugHHdfemDWC3wDHif2hvAMfudbYBQrNgs

You can't confuse the overall count with the consequences of individual decisions or non-decisions.

I'm assuming all that early good luck, and the associated booing ferals, is the reason why we missed out on getting several frees inside our F50 later in the game.

No confusion on my part. I don't think the umpires had any influence on the result.

There were a few tackles executed by the Swans with tackles that were at the top of the neck in a very "pressure point" type hold which I found interesting.

Mckay kicked 3.5.
In the third quarter, Fogarty kicked at goal truly only for a mark to be taken on the line.  If that one, and Harry's poster both go in we might have gone on to win the match.

Thats the margin right there guys.  Harry kicks 5.3 instead of 3.5 and we are that much closer too.

When it comes down to it, we werent that bad.

For all the Gibbons haters, he is an onfield coach for us, and plugs a lot of holes that earns him very little on the stats sheet.

He went off, and we crumbled in a way that surprised me.

It just goes to show, that we are still working out a complementary group of players.  I think we have enough of each type, and that our improvement doesnt come from changing players over for another, but getting the group to work together for longer.

This puts us back in the "if only" frame of mind and immediately sets the bar too low.

Instead, if players  did or were able to do what they are supposed to do we would all be in a more positive frame of mind because we would be winning matches.

There were a few tackles executed by the Swans with tackles that were at the top of the neck in a very "pressure point" type hold which I found interesting.

They were dirty/play on the edge. We are the nice team and nice teams rarely win flags.

.....including whacking Stocker in the seeds

They were dirty/play on the edge. We are the nice team and nice teams rarely win flags.
[/quot

Quote from: madbluboy on May 31, 2021, 07:15:43 pm

They were dirty/play on the edge. We are the nice team and nice teams rarely win flags.

The hard bump on McKay in the first quarter also looked like it was an direction that any time they can hit him fairly on the shoulder go for it.

Cripps too was jumped into hard on his back more then a few times which he wasn’t happy about.

They play hard and play to win. Kinda wish our guys had the same hard nut mindset.

They were dirty/play on the edge. We are the nice team and nice teams rarely win flags.

I'm intrigued by the persistence of this idea, but I'm not sure whether it persists in the minds of supporters, or whether it persists in actuality. If it's the former, I have nothing further to say. If it's the latter, I'd be curious to know why this is still an issue, given that I have been reading about this since I started on these forums more than 15 years ago. In that time, we have changed everything multiple times, and I'm wondering what we need to do eradicate it ?

I'm intrigued by the persistence of this idea, but I'm not sure whether it persists in the minds of supporters, or whether it persists in actuality. If it's the former, I have nothing further to say. If it's the latter, I'd be curious to know why this is still an issue, given that I have been reading about this since I started on these forums more than 15 years ago. In that time, we have changed everything multiple times, and I'm wondering what we need to do eradicate it ?

Change the recruiting criteria to allow for some players who enjoy the contest a bit harder but might not
be the right fit for Sunday School and the types who when they ask for their steak rare want it still kicking on the plate...
I dont think its any secret that a lot of the other clubs think we can be intimidated with a bit of physicality, not king hits but just that extra vigour in the contest or a push and shove until we capitulate.
Until we have players who can deliver and respond to that physicality we will be seen as weak and will have our better players targeted. I remember Cripps got targeted by both Jordan Lewis and Viney from Melbourne one game and none of our players did anything and were just too meek and mild. It sets a bad example and tells the other team if we go harder in the big moments the Navy Blue boys will just roll over.
Hope Harry McKay was watching Buddy....Harry is a nice guy, Buddy didnt get to the status he has being nice, dont think I have ever seen Harry lay a bump or doing anything remotely nasty.

Change the recruiting criteria to allow for some players who enjoy the contest a bit harder but might not
be the right fit for Sunday School and the types who when they ask for their steak rare want it still kicking on the plate...
I dont think its any secret that a lot of the other clubs think we can be intimidated with a bit of physicality, not king hits but just that extra vigour in the contest or a push and shove until we capitulate.
Until we have players who can deliver and respond to that physicality we will be seen as weak and will have our better players targeted. I remember Cripps got targeted by both Jordan Lewis and Viney from Melbourne one game and none of our players did anything and were just too meek and mild. It sets a bad example and tells the other team if we go harder in the big moments the Navy Blue boys will just roll over.
Hope Harry McKay was watching Buddy....Harry is a nice guy, Buddy didnt get to the status he has being nice, dont think I have ever seen Harry lay a bump or doing anything remotely nasty.

I guess the point I was making is that the personal pronoun "we" as it relates to the club, and as it relates to this topic, encompasses hundreds and possibly thousands of changes in every department, over the last 15 or 20 years. Hundreds of players, a few different recruiters, numerous senior coaches, assistant coaches, heads of football, recruiters, list managers, board members, presidents etc. Notwithstanding all this, the failures of the previous recruiter / coach / player etc., become part of the identity of the successor, since when someone fails, the successor defines themselves (at least in part) in opposition to what has come before. They don't copy each other, and they are chosen as successors precisely because they offer a point of difference to their predecessor. There is a specific attempt made to disconnect from the past and fix those errors. And yet across these numerous changes and attempts to fix the errors of the past, the niceness persists...............

MRO
Mills fined $1500 for whacking Stockers in the gonads.
Wicks fined $1000 for misconduct towards Weitering.
Buddy no case to answer despite making contact with Newmans head

"Contact between Sydney Swans’ Lance Franklin and Carlton’s Nic Newman from the second quarter of Sunday’s match, between the Sydney Swans and Carlton was assessed. The ball is kicked towards the Sydney forward line. Newman attempts to take possession of the ball at half forward. As Newman turns front on to gain possession of the loose ball, Franklin approaches and contact is made, including high contact. It was the view of the MRO that there was insufficient force to constitute a reportable offence. No further action was taken."

MRO
Mills fined $1500 for whacking Stockers in the gonads.
Wicks fined $1000 for misconduct towards Weitering.
Buddy no case to answer despite making contact with Newmans head

"Contact between Sydney Swans’ Lance Franklin and Carlton’s Nic Newman from the second quarter of Sunday’s match, between the Sydney Swans and Carlton was assessed. The ball is kicked towards the Sydney forward line. Newman attempts to take possession of the ball at half forward. As Newman turns front on to gain possession of the loose ball, Franklin approaches and contact is made, including high contact. It was the view of the MRO that there was insufficient force to constitute a reportable offence. No further action was taken."

It was dangerous what Buddy did and he should have been suspended...it was the old Champs call vs the no name player.

It was dangerous what Buddy did and he should have been suspended...it was the old Champs call vs the no name player.

Dangerous but no injury or impediment occurred. Having said that, weren't there some cases earlier in the year where the MRO used wording like "potential to cause injury"?

I guess the point I was making is that the personal pronoun "we" as it relates to the club, and as it relates to this topic, encompasses hundreds and possibly thousands of changes in every department, over the last 15 or 20 years. Hundreds of players, a few different recruiters, numerous senior coaches, assistant coaches, heads of football, recruiters, list managers, board members, presidents etc. Notwithstanding all this, the failures of the previous recruiter / coach / player etc., become part of the identity of the successor, since when someone fails, the successor defines themselves (at least in part) in opposition to what has come before. They don't copy each other, and they are chosen as successors precisely because they offer a point of difference to their predecessor. There is a specific attempt made to disconnect from the past and fix those errors. And yet across these numerous changes and attempts to fix the errors of the past, the niceness persists...............

Never having enough of the right people all on the same page able to agree on whats right and being swayed by agendas, thats usually what stuffs up a good business IMHO from what I have seen over the years. So maybe its applicable to a football club that cant get its act together too...

Weak Christian,  really effing weak.   It's OK to give Plowman a holiday,  but what Buddy did was reckless and potentially way worse.   But then again, he's an untouchable and Plowman's just a nobody from that irrelevant club,  you know the one that the AFL uses to make examples of because they never kick up a fuss and just roll over and take it.

Stocker should have dropped Mills for that act.   What a weak,  gutless maggot.

They want buddy to get to 1000 goals before he gets injured again. Was never getting suspended for an act that anybody else would. Want the media PR explosion of first aboriginal player to 1000. Which is on its own is a dam fine effort for a bloke who can’t mark above his head. Should have at least copped a fine though

I guess the point I was making is that the personal pronoun "we" as it relates to the club, and as it relates to this topic, encompasses hundreds and possibly thousands of changes in every department, over the last 15 or 20 years. Hundreds of players, a few different recruiters, numerous senior coaches, assistant coaches, heads of football, recruiters, list managers, board members, presidents etc. Notwithstanding all this, the failures of the previous recruiter / coach / player etc., become part of the identity of the successor, since when someone fails, the successor defines themselves (at least in part) in opposition to what has come before. They don't copy each other, and they are chosen as successors precisely because they offer a point of difference to their predecessor. There is a specific attempt made to disconnect from the past and fix those errors. And yet across these numerous changes and attempts to fix the errors of the past, the niceness persists...............

You make some thoughtful points.  With Carlton I wonder whether it is a case this century of the tail wagging the dog.

Amongst all the changes to personnel you have listed and the different skills and attitudes they bring with them, there is one constant which must have affected their thinking and actions; namely, the failure of the Club for the past 20 years to provide a  competitive list with the ability to play in the final 4 or 6.

Especially in the early years nobody wanted to come to Carlton, despite the best efforts of our recruiting personnel.  That must have affected the morale of the players and staff alike and created a negative culture.

Imagine if we could turn on a magic switch and have a competitive list.  The old swagger would return, petty differences would be forgotten, the staff would be motivated and, most importantly, we would be seen as winners and a desirable club for top players to come to.

Until that competitive list is realised I fear we are going to rummage around in the bottom 6 for quite some time.



 

It was dangerous what Buddy did and he should have been suspended...it was the old Champs call vs the no name player.

It just shows how disingenuous the AFL is over high contact, this sort of incident and the AFL's response will be the type of video evidence used in claims when the AFL goes to the wall over CTE!

Gil and his mates are just buying time to make sure they get their pension!

Brisbane have gone well past us but I'll reserve my opinion on Essendon.....still relying on unpredictable types like Stringer to win them games and I dont think Merrett, Parish, Heppell, Shiel etc are my idea of a finals winning midfield setup.

Yeah, lets not overreact to Cheats success yet.  Getting a lot of press, but you would expect that, with how many pro-Cheats media there are

And last night on FC the mongrel Cane Cornes put forward the proposal that Essendon lure Big Harry and his brother to them.  He argued why stay at an unsuccessful club, one unlikely to succeed for a few years when you can join an upward moving club like Essendon.  Raping the unsuccessful clubs would be a disaster.    :'(  >:D  >:D  >:D  >:D  >:D  >:D

And last night on FC the mongrel Cane Cornes put forward the proposal that Essendon lure Big Harry and his brother to them.  He argued why stay at an unsuccessful club, one unlikely to succeed for a few years when you can join an upward moving club like Essendon.  Raping the unsuccessful clubs would be a disaster.    :'(  >:D  >:D  >:D  >:D  >:D  >:D

If it came from Kane Cornes, it deserves all of the attention I intend to give it: nothing. I tire of hearing of this ... fool. His opinions are worth about as much as one of my farts.

I cannot see that happening @chalkybill .... but muckraking is stock 'n trade for him.

Dangerous but no injury or impediment occurred. Having said that, weren't there some cases earlier in the year where the MRO used wording like "potential to cause injury"?

Zac Williams in the preseason got done.

Glaringly obvious that we have one of the shallowest midfields in the competition....Cripps, Walsh, Curnow and then not much else...after all these years of drafting young midfielders.

Im still pretty glass-half-full....  Fwd line will look  better with Charlie, McGov, Fisher and with H, Martin and JSOS fully fit.   Backline will sort itself out, there are some good names back there.

But, yes, the midfield is a worry.  As stated above, outlside of those 3 (Cripps, Curnow, Walsh), who else to you lock in there??   Surely 1 or 2 of Dow, Setterfield, Obrien, Kennedy, SPS, Cunningham, Williams,  should have stamped themselves the next in line by now.   We really need to get a couple of decent midfielders in via trade over the offseason

- Vision of Saad sagging back to defend the goal line instead of defending is man, tidy that up and that goal doesnt occur

King highlighted this after the match, and i thought it was a bit rich (and again, an example of cherry-picking clips to prove a pre-made point)....  how does King know this isnt the instruction - drop off the back and play goal-keeper???  Plenty of teams do it. he just got burnt due to his man getting the clearance and kicking the goal

You can't confuse the overall count with the consequences of individual decisions or non-decisions.

I'm assuming all that early good luck, and the associated booing ferals, is the reason why we missed out on getting several frees inside our F50 later in the game.

Yeah, we had it early.  But the 2nd half they were gifted a few goals, and we could have had a head ripped off and not gotten a free in fwd50

Kane Cornes is a 'Fisherman'. ;)
The problem for Cornes is his bait is so rank the 'fish' can smell it a mile off.
"Never let a mug upset you"

If Harry were to go to Essendon it would be the end of a few administrative careers at Carlton.
We don't sell the farm...but the house, and the sheds, and all the equipment to keep Harry.

Kane Cornes is a 'Fisherman'. ;)
The problem for Cornes is his bait is so rank the 'fish' can smell it a mile off.
"Never let a mug upset you"

If Harry were to go to Essendon it would be the end of a few administrative careers at Carlton.
We don't sell the farm...but the house, and the sheds, and all the equipment to keep Harry.

Did we learn nothing from shipping off JK all those years ago?

Harry could be better.

I'm not sure what diseases you can get from drinking your own bathwater, but odds on Cornes has them all.

Crash....Cornes also suggested that Richmond move Reiwoldt on so that they can sign up Callum Coleman-Jones! Jones has played 2 games of AFL.....not 200, not even 20....just 2. And you'd move on a club icon on the back of those two games? I reckon the Tiger Army would burn Punt Road down if they went down that path.

Crash....Cornes also suggested that Richmond move Reiwoldt on so that they can sign up Callum Coleman-Jones! Jones has played 2 games of AFL.....not 200, not even 20....just 2. And you'd move on a club icon on the back of those two games? I reckon the Tiger Army would burn Punt Road down if they went down that path.

I heard that. Interesting premise, maybe. Chance of happening? Pr(x) = 0

Reiwoldt coming off a bag of 5 goals and in the top half dozen or so in the Coleman.....yep, Coleman-Jones shows some talent but I reckon Richmond would show a bit more loyalty than what Cornes is suggesting.

Reiwoldt coming off a bag of 5 goals and in the top half dozen or so in the Coleman.....yep, Coleman-Jones shows some talent but I reckon Richmond would show a bit more loyalty than what Cornes is suggesting.

Cornes must've heard the name Coleman-Jones and decided to look him up. He must've typed in Coleman, John instead and thought, hey, this kid can play.
 ;)

Cornes likes attention and knows how to pick a subject to get it....
I wouldnt put it past Dodo making a decent offer to make our life harder and making us make Harry richer. The Saad trade really cut him up IMHO and he will be wanting some payback.
Ben McKay is a player who we should look at...

Yeah, lets not overreact to Cheats success yet.  Getting a lot of press, but you would expect that, with how many pro-Cheats media there are

No doubt about it. Essendon only need a couple a decent wins in a row and the football media's hormones start to bubble out of control and immediately go wank wank wank.

No doubt about it. Essendon only need a couple a decent wins in a row and the football media's hormones start to bubble out of control and immediately go wank wank wank.

 Flubbo is a professional CheatsFC fluffer!

Two of Melbourne’s high profile recruits Stephen May and Jake Lever are playing great football. May arrived in 2019, Lever in 2018. Can anyone remember the sort of reviews they were getting from the Melbourne faithful after 10 games??

Two of Melbourne’s high profile recruits Stephen May and Jake Lever are playing great football. May arrived in 2019, Lever in 2018. Can anyone remember the sort of reviews they were getting from the Melbourne faithful after 10 games??

Yes. Wasn't real positive.

Two of Melbourne’s high profile recruits Stephen May and Jake Lever are playing great football. May arrived in 2019, Lever in 2018. Can anyone remember the sort of reviews they were getting from the Melbourne faithful after 10 games??

1. May nearly got ran out of town for being fat.

2. Lever did his knee when he came over didn't he.

Hmmm....
1. Gov
2. Charlie

https://themongrelpunt.com/afl-season-2021/2021/05/31/sydney-v-carlton-the-four-points/?fbclid=IwAR3neoeOxvT_MAAc45MhkmUorq8SuRic6Io0G0MwwWSjbg9xF6Qq_IlPKis

There was some article written by Bob Murphy which i glanced at talking about our last game.

I say glanced at because he was lashing out because we played Casboult in defence. Saying it didn't work and why would we do it because he has never played there before.
....and thats where he lost me.

No, not because i suggested we do exactly that leading up to the game, but because he said Casboult has never played there before.

Pretty sure he spent at a season or so in defence and played pretty bloody well during that time. It was simply because all our key forwards got injured that we had no choice but to play him back up forward....and he played pretty well there too.

So i'm very wary of some of these football 'experts' who are obligated to write 'something' to justify their existance, rather than writing something when there is actually something worth saying.

Sorry Bob....you should be better.

There was some article written by Bob Murphy which i glanced at talking about our last game.

I say glanced at because he was lashing out because we played Casboult in defence. Saying it didn't work and why would we do it because he has never played there before.
....and thats where he lost me.

No, not because i suggested we do exactly that leading up to the game, but because he said Casboult has never played there before.

Pretty sure he spent at a season or so in defence and played pretty bloody well during that time. It was simply because all our key forwards got injured that we had no choice but to play him back up forward....and he played pretty well there too.

So i'm very wary of some of these football 'experts' who are obligated to write 'something' to justify their existance, rather than writing something when there is actually something worth saying.

Sorry Bob....you should be better.

Fans have to surrendered the idea that these "AFL Experts" watch games like we do!

Most probably write articles like that off reading one line in a summary.

Cornes likes attention and knows how to pick a subject to get it....
I wouldnt put it past Dodo making a decent offer to make our life harder and making us make Harry richer. The Saad trade really cut him up IMHO and he will be wanting some payback.
Ben McKay is a player who we should look at...

I would look at Ben. Need to look at replacing Jones in the next couple of years.
I think Harry said something like not playing with his brother at the same club at draft time.
Maybe someone with a better memory might be able to confirm that.

I would look at Ben. Need to look at replacing Jones in the next couple of years.
I think Harry said something like not playing with his brother at the same club at draft time.
Maybe someone with a better memory might be able to confirm that.

The boys gave the impression that they'd rather punch each other up than play in the same team.

Timing could be right to get Ben. Worth asking the question.

Timing could be right to get Ben. Worth asking the question.

Imagine the fun they could have if they swapped jumpers before the game.....

Ben Silvagni has shown nada in terms of AFL capability, not to say he won't ever but up to this stage he's not up to AFL Standard, in fact he's miles and miles off the pace and even borderline for VFL!

Ben McKay?

Ben McKay?

Yes, if I'm wrong sorry I'm referring to the earlier debate about Ben Silvagni.

How can we look at Ben McKay, he's under contract at Norp, or is this also a cross pollination with ..... ?

btw., Kane Cornes has been quoted begging CheatsFC to lure Ben and Harry McKay to CheatsFC in the last 24hrs.

Ben Silvagni has shown nada in terms of AFL capability, not to say he won't ever but up to this stage he's not up to AFL Standard, in fact he's miles and miles off the pace and even borderline for VFL!

Lol....keep up.

Why would Ben Silvagni be swapping jumpers?

Contracts mean squat.....north are a sinking ship and if we offer enough, they might take it to stay afloat.

Yes, if I'm wrong sorry I'm referring to the earlier debate about Ben Silvagni.

How can we look at Ben McKay, he's under contract at Norp, or is this also a cross pollination with ..... ?

btw., Kane Cornes has been quoted begging CheatsFC to lure Ben and Harry McKay to CheatsFC in the last 24hrs.

Magic word: Kane Cornes, If a human had suggested this, I might start to worry, But as it is this ... lifeform, I won't stress about it. The more he wants it, the more confident I will be that H is remaining a Blue.

If Ben McKay is contracted but open, then you'd definitely ask the question....he's definitely come on this year as a key defender and could be a perfect long term replacement for Jones....and maybe free Weitering up to play more of that intercept marking type....a bit like Jake Lever at Melbourne.

It's definitely an area we haven't planned for and Marchbank just doesn't seem to be able to get near it for long enough....he's likely to be delisted and then rookied IMO.

I thought Ben McKay was off contract at the end of 2021 - did he extend?

I thought Ben McKay was off contract at the end of 2021 - did he extend?

I thought he had, but quick search says out of contract at the end of the year.

I thought he had, but quick search says out of contract at the end of the year.

Yep I was pretty sure that was correct. I would be speaking to his brother to gauge how keen he might be. We have our pillars set for a decade if he comes over.

Yep I was pretty sure that was correct. I would be speaking to his brother to gauge how keen he might be. We have our pillars set for a decade if he comes over.

Perhaps more importantly, it is more likely to stop Harry leaving too.

Fans have to surrendered the idea that these "AFL Experts" watch games like we do!

Most probably write articles like that off reading one line in a summary.

Rohan Connelly did a good bit on it during his podcast - basically said the press box at games is a ghost town, as none of the footy journos actually care about the footy, more interested in muckraking and back room crap

Rohan Connelly did a good bit on it during his podcast - basically said the press box at games is a ghost town, as none of the footy journos actually care about the footy, more interested in muckraking and back room crap

It's because that is what pays the bills!

I spent years working in the same office with Scotty "The Truth" Palmer, reporting the sport was left to the cadets and work experience kids!

https://themongrelpunt.com/afl-season-2021/2021/05/31/sydney-v-carlton-the-four-points/?fbclid=IwAR3neoeOxvT_MAAc45MhkmUorq8SuRic6Io0G0MwwWSjbg9xF6Qq_IlPKis

Really good read.  Balanced and interesting

It's because that is what pays the bills!

I spent years working in the same office with Scotty "The Truth" Palmer, reporting the sport was left to the cadets and work experience kids!

Ha - loved him.  Used to hang out for half time, as a kid, to see his 5mins (after a cross from Peter Landy).   Kept punching!!!!

Ha - loved him.  Used to hang out for half time, as a kid, to see his 5mins (after a cross from Peter Landy).  Kept punching!!!!

Working with Scotty was a strange mix of odours, BO, alcohol and cigar smoke, I think that big brown coat he wore was probably beige when it was new, some claimed they could smell him in the lift well before it arrived, he always had plenty of free space in there!

I believe Flubbo modelled his early career on Scotty!

Working with Scotty was a strange mix of odours, BO, alcohol and cigar smoke, I think that big brown coat he wore was probably beige when it was new, some claimed they could smell him in the lift well before it arrived, he always had plenty of free space in there!

I believe Flubbo modelled his early career on Scotty!

Gold!!