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Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread

Reply #255
Some fair points Jim, I go with Whiteman at the top of the order.....Saffies attack isnt bad with Rabada and fellow quick Anrich Nortje who is express so I would expect making runs will be hard work but their batting is poor with only Elgar and Dekock as consistent players.
Pity Pattinson isnt fit as he would be my ideal Starc replacement although I am sure Starc will play, Lyon is a question mark player
for me, has a bowling average of 40 vs the Saffies and their grounds are not big. He probably starts 1st test but I'd have Swepson in the touring party as insurance.Like to see Labuschange get more overs, he bowls some rubbish but also bowls some decent stuff and you have to try and fiddle wickets every now and then and its an area Paine struggles to do.
Lot of pressure on Warner who has a good record vs the Saffies and of course Smith, you would expect flat hard wickets again in SA which suits their quicks and I think Warner can turn it around in this short series and be a match winner.
I like Carey but is only averaging 34 in 1st class cricket and thats not enough to demand a place IMO....if I was going a new keeper it would be Ingles from WA and Whiteman would be my reserve keeper.
Pucovski with his concussion issues is  going to be tested with the short stuff  and we will see what he is made of, Saffies play it tougher than most teams and with Nortje going at 156kmh in the IPL its going to be a barrage of bouncers IMO so I hope the umpires are of the neutral variety and not all from Saffie land.
I'll go Aus 2-1 as I expect the players under pressure like Warner and Starc to deliver, should be fun to watch too as the Saffie Crowds are a bit like Collingwood ferals and really give it to our blokes and I expect sandpaper sales to increase for the 1st test..😜

I'm not so worried about Carey's first class average. Often they can be lower. There's often reasons for that. They come in young, pitches are made for 4 days instead of 5 etc. I more look at current form. Michael Clarke only had an average of 34 when he played his first Test. We knew he was ready though. I look at current form more than anything.  Starc would have to improve alot. That was a very poor, series losing season for him. Jhye Richardson is the best of the bowlers outside of the one's in the side and he would be my first choice.

I'm a big believer in leadership and often the sides plays in the mould of the captain. Hence no way I go with Paine. Too many 5th days failure when under pressure. Plus he dropped catches and missed stumping, which cost us the series. Batting ok but he's there for his keeping, which has crashed. Happens at 36yo. Unfortunately for his captaincy too, which was something horrible. He's goes to the retirement.

Lyon is just in.  As you said, wouldn't want to struggle the First Test.

Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread

Reply #256
I'm not so worried about Carey's first class average. Often they can be lower. There's often reasons for that. They come in young, pitches are made for 4 days instead of 5 etc. I more look at current form. Michael Clarke only had an average of 34 when he played his first Test. We knew he was ready though. I look at current form more than anything.  Starc would have to improve alot. That was a very poor, series losing season for him. Jhye Richardson is the best of the bowlers outside of the one's in the side and he would be my first choice.

I'm a big believer in leadership and often the sides plays in the mould of the captain. Hence no way I go with Paine. Too many 5th days failure when under pressure. Plus he dropped catches and missed stumping, which cost us the series. Batting ok but he's there for his keeping, which has crashed. Happens at 36yo. Unfortunately for his captaincy too, which was something horrible. He's goes to the retirement.

Lyon is just in.  As you said, wouldn't want to struggle the First Test.
I think Paines batting is inflated by not outs and where he bats, he isnt in the same parish as Pant, DeKock, Butler, Bairstow, Watling etc as a batsman and his keeping which was his forte has dropped off.
I dont mind Richardson but I think Abbott or Neser will start ahead of him as long as Langar/Paine are running the team.
With no Paine I reckon we would go with Cummins as captain which isnt ideal IMO, Ian Chappell wants Warner but that wont happen and Smith is the other option but I wouldnt be returning him in SA as Captain at the scene of the crime.
Interesting that Maxwell and Finch have been told by Victorian cricket they are finished at Shield level too so they wont be returning as test players...Finch might have been an outside chance to captain Australia if he had some form.

Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread

Reply #257
Paine could have had a much longer career had it not been for injury: he missed a lot of cricket over the years. The reason he was so highly rated was his keeping first and foremost. His batting was potentially good, good enough to open for Tasmania. but his results with the bat have never equaled his theoretical potential.

Paine has been quite a reasonable captain for us, especially as he took the job on in very difficult circumstances. But at his age, cracks are appearing. He is 36, which does explain how his keeping has dropped off. He is still one of the better keepers, but he is on the decline.
So, do we look to the future?

There are a number of good young keepers going around, a number of which are decent batsmen. Carey appears to be leading the pack, but he has played little first class cricket since entering the Australian white ball squads.
Nor is he alone in this area. Adam Zampa could be considered as a spinning option, but for the fact that he hasn't played any first class cricket of note in over a year.
How are these guys going to impress in the test arena, if they play so little multiple day cricket games?

If Paine is put out to pasture, something that must happen sooner or later, then the captaincy issue will become acute.
(a) Smith has made a good return to test cricket, but I wouldn't give him the captaincy again. He was a great performer, but not a great captain. while he had the job.
(b) Warner has the aggression as a captain that could be useful. However, like Shane Warne in his day, his copy book is blotted. Warne was a fantastic captain, especially in the field. But his behaviour kept him from showing it very often. The same for Warner. And he isn't getting any younger either.
(c) Cummins appears to have the tactical nous and the ability as a bowler to be a great leader, but one of the secrets of captaincy is the ability to make clutch decisions. A man who has bowled 20+ overs in a day is going to be tired. It is natural. Tired people do not generally make the best decisions. It is the reason so few fast bowlers have been captain in the history of the game.
(d) There have been rumours about that Glenn Maxwell and Aaron Finch, both of whom have excellent captaincy credentials, have been informed that their future at Sheffield Shield level is limited. That definitely stops either of them from parachuting into the Captaincy. Neither is young either. Finch is 34 and is past his peak, even in the white ball game. He has been excellent in recent times, but he cannot survive another form drop like he had a couple of years back.
(e) Marnus Labuschagne might be an answer: his spot in the team looks very solid. However, he hasn't had a lot of captaincy experience to date. I don't know if he has the tactical nous for the job yet.
(f) The selectors gave Head a long go as VC, as he does have some captaincy ability. However, he is no certainty to regain his place and doesn't look like his spot would ever be a given.
(g) Matthew Wade has good captaincy skills, but his place as a batsman is slipping away. He is not young either. Apparently he is colourblind, something I only just discovered. His keeping days are behind him.

At some point, Cricket Australia is going to have a hard choice on at least 2 fronts. Do they bite the bullet now, and allow the newbies to grow into the positions available before the Ashes? or do they wait for performances to drop off further?

To add to that, we also have the question of an aging spin attack. Nathan Lyon, who has been brilliant for us, the best off-spinner ever to play for Australia, is showing signs of 'decay'. He really struggled against India and could barely get a wicket or stop the runs. He is 33 and not getting better (except maybe his batting).
Who are the next spinners we have? Are any of them ready for test cricket? And how do we tell, when we produce pitches than don't wear much?
Live Long and Prosper!

Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread

Reply #258
The fish rots at the head. Paine is a poor, panicky captain and the players played in that ,ould with great intent. What were his plans, field placings terrible, bowling plans, who knows. Worst captain since Yallop. On the other side Rahane drags a side very depleted, that's used 20 players, to a win they should never have had. That played with great want and intent and got rewarded. We essentially played with two bowlers and two batsmen, with a decent effort from Green. 1-0 up in the series, Paine has the best bowling attack in the world, India’s skipper goes home, they play 20 players, a lot of them no-names, Paine wins the toss three out of four, he stuffs up countless DRS reviews, he drops catches, he misses stumpings, he loses his cool with embarrassing sledging and ultimately he is in charge of a team that loses the unlosable series.

Need to go back to Smith for the SA Tour. Our choices are limited there right now so it's Smith. While never classified as a great captain, he was a good captain, had a ruthless edge good plans, bowlers with in partnerships with constant pressure. We could get the job done on the 5th day. This summer, by contrast, outside the constant use of the short ball how many time did we see consecutive ball in the same spot, a stock ball, building pressure with dots building pressure. What was with Sydney with that constant shot pitched bowling on a dead flat block of concrete. Just like the panicky debacle at Headingley, we were in a dominate position in the last 2 Tests for a draw and a loss against a depleted team. Paine can piss off. Because of Paine's leadership we are out of the top 2 on the WTC Table. top 2 play the final at Lord's. we need to beat SA 2-0. Can do it with Smith, no chance with Paine. Good leaders are everything.

First Test in SA...

Khawaja (short term until we find someone longer term)
Warner
Labuschagne
Smith (c)
Pucovski
Green
Carey
Cummins
Richardson
Lyon (just holds his spot)
Hazelwood

Amen - love this post. Agree with all of it.  And agree 100% with that team (with a fit jimmy patto as next choice quick)

Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread

Reply #259
My problems with this team mainly revolve around the openers..... Cameos Khawaja,  who has played one decent innings versus off spin in a totally unfulfilled career, and a fading Warner,  with his completly on/off form over the past two years,  plus he'll be crucified by the SA crowds etc.   CA are as weak as piss, stood by and did F all while the whole SA set up used gutter tactics to extreme levels. At the very least deKock should have been censured for his behaviour.  Fancy letting officials walk around with Sonny BW masks.  And we're the bad guys?

Longer term I still reckon Renshaw has what it takes to open,  just can't find the key to unlock whatever it is that's missing.

And that side is old,  too old. 

Left field,  but I'd pick Maxwell at six to offer a counter punching option and some spin,  plus at least he can field unlike other contenders.   Captained Victoria well at times too.  Why Neser also can't get a game staggers me,  oh wait,  he doesn't live in Bankstown or Manly.  No more NSW entitlement.  Too many inflated heads.
DrE is no more... you ok with that harmonica man?

Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread

Reply #260
NSW cricket mafia pushing Sangha based on BB form,  what a dead set joke.   The spin cupboard must be awfully bare ATM.
DrE is no more... you ok with that harmonica man?

Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread

Reply #261
Left field,  but I'd pick Maxwell .........................
If the news rags are accurate even Maxwell has given up on that dream ................ what is worse I've heard Maxwell and Finch have been told don't bother rolling up for Vic Shield cricket either! That's cutting them off at the source so that even if the weight of public opinion grows in their favour they'll have no basis for a claim.

This is how the cricket mafia works, it's tenticles cross all borders, even oceans.
The Force Awakens!

Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread

Reply #262
That's Cricket Victoria being straight out stupid, but then again, a lack of common sense and overt politicking have beset cricket at all levels for a long time.
DrE is no more... you ok with that harmonica man?

Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread

Reply #263
That's Cricket Victoria being straight out stupid, but then again, a lack of common sense and overt politicking have beset cricket at all levels for a long time.
Or corrupt, where does the motivation come from.

It seems that fundamentally it is all about maximising dollars in the long term scheme of things, but for who?
The Force Awakens!

Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread

Reply #264
If the news rags are accurate even Maxwell has given up on that dream ................ what is worse I've heard Maxwell and Finch have been told don't bother rolling up for Vic Shield cricket either! That's cutting them off at the source so that even if the weight of public opinion grows in their favour they'll have no basis for a claim.

This is how the cricket mafia works, it's tenticles cross all borders, even oceans.

Does seem a bit much if Vic rolls out  Finch, Maxwell, Handscome in the top 6 - half your top 6 with no real chance of playing test cricket again... should be trying to produce future test players (def dont drop them all, you do need some senior players to keep comp tough) - maybe this is the thinking?

Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread

Reply #265
Wade axed from the test squad to South Africa and Carey in along with Steketee,... Abbott, Neser and Swepson have maintained their places in the squad. Not sure Paine will be thrilled seeing Carey in the squad and I think the pressure will be on him to perform as captain as well as with the gloves and bat.
Steketee may be the leading Shield quick this season in terms of wickets? but has also come from the BBL and bowls a reasonable line but IMO wont bother the Saffies or anyone else too much. Honest trier at best IMO.
Saffies are playing Pakistan and were rolled for 220 but their quicks are all over the Pakis and have them 4 for 30 odd which i think tells you plenty about how they roll as a test nation in todays cricket and we should find them a lot easier than the plucky Indians to dismiss, its whether we can stand up with the bat and I think Smith might give us the edge in that area given he is the standout batter in either team.

Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread

Reply #266
Net bowler for Smith EB.

Went to a Cricket Vic session this morning EB,  there really is a purple circle on the white board (figuratively speaking) mate.
DrE is no more... you ok with that harmonica man?

 

Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread

Reply #267
Only two Vics in the test squad,  might be time to rebuild because that's rubbish for the second most populous state.
DrE is no more... you ok with that harmonica man?

Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread

Reply #268
Only two Vics in the test squad,  might be time to rebuild because that's rubbish for the second most populous state.
As I've stated before, the world is gobsmacked our national team had no room for Maxwell, the rest of the planet rates him as one of the world's greats.

Maxwell is probably worth more the team just fielding in covers or gully than Head is with the bat!

Locally Maxwell is bagged for his erratic behaviour, yet many of the same people doing the bagging keep selecting Warner with impunity!

FMD, what has Zampa done wrong too, how does Swepson get a run ahead of that kid?

In comparison to Zampa, Swepson looks to be like a Pie Chucker who has the ability to deliver a one in a thousand unplayable ball, and then cannot repeat it! The first rule of good bowling, any bowling, is control, of course I write this and I presume they've picked Starc again! Starc is the test teams version of Liam Jones, a captain of chaos!

FMD, Henriques and Nesser, do we have to take our own commentary team? I'm pegging Moises for Captainano if Paine slips, and Carey will keep, Henriques now known as the Phoenix!
The Force Awakens!

Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread

Reply #269
How on god's green earth does Henrique's make a test squad. Really!?!  FMD,  play for NSW get a baggy green in a brown paper bag...   Was finished five years ago.
DrE is no more... you ok with that harmonica man?