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21
Robert Heatley Stand / Re: VFL 2025 Rd 16 Carlton vs Brisbane
Last post by crashlander -
Now that I've calmed down and let the anger, frustration and disappoint dissipate, I'm not that disappointed with the result. Why? Because Brisbane have few injuries (unlike us), they have a system that our VFL boys are only learning and their team structure was far superior to ours. Look at their line-up and they have so much more experience that we do. Coleman, Doedee, McKenna and Robertson, for example. The only one we can claim to have that sort of experience is Acres, and he isn't fit. So, to get within 4 goals, and to restrict this mob to less than 100 points isn't the bad sort of loss we've seen from the seniors in recent weeks.

Does that mean I like it? Not in the least, but earlier this season (and especially last year) we would have been pounded, as we were by Southport.

What did I like?
[1] Ethan Phillips: I understand that Phillips has his issues, but he had 18 marks today and 26 disposals. He may not be as physical as I'd like a key defender to be, but has to be better value than Frankie Evans, Flynn Young or Will White (whom I like). Probably better value that Corey Durdin or Lachie Fogarty.
So, why didn't we select him? I don't know.
[2] Billy Wilson and Jordan Boyd had very solid games and must be in line to play next week. Wilson had 23 possessions and a goal. Boyd had 19 possessions.
[3] Flynn Riley probably had slightly the better of 2 listed ruckmen with 5 clearances to boot. I would be seriously considering him for a rookie spot.
22
Robert Heatley Stand / Re: AFL Rd 19 2025 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Melbourne
Last post by RiverRat -
Quote from: Lods – on
Quote from: Thryleon – on
Ive not seen a team start a season in such poor physical condition and not build as the season wore on.

Ive also not seen a team do what we have done this season, where the form lines early were pretty poor aside from a handful of players, and rather have the rest build form, we have had more drop out of form as the season has gone on.

Its like the harder they try, the more they stuff it.

Finally, we have not been the same since they tightened the holding the ball interpretation which has resulted in the ultra fast ball movement we are seeing now.  Its opened the game up, but I cant fathom how a guy having one armed held whilst taking posession gets pinged for not being able to get it loose.


Weitering's looking a bit worse for the wear...he'd be much more comfortable with players like Silvagni, Newman...even Saad all on deck.
Weitering has become one-dimensional - possibly due to carrying injuries - but he is:
- much less mobile than he used to be
- mostly limited to punching to spoil and less likely to try to take a contested mark
- much less versatile in his role - ever since Jones left, which has forced him to take the biggest opponent and position himself mostly at FB, which has limited his ability to position himself for the intercept mark across HB
- something of a panic-merchant with the ball in hand
- not as effective at kicking the ball as he used to be
25
Robert Heatley Stand / Re: AFL Rd 18 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Brisbane
Last post by kruddler -
Quote from: Thryleon – on
Quote from: kruddler – on


I was picking generic data. Not favouring one or the other.

I included complete ruck stats to show relative numbers there.
That is...
Pitto wins 1/2 the hitouts of contests he is in. TDK 1/3
Pitto gets 1/5 hitouts to advantage from ruck contests he attends. TDK is 1 in 7.

TDK played most of his game forward...cool....Pitto outscored him, took more contested marks, had as many score involvements.
But TDK looks pretty running around the ground and can jump higher. None of this translates to actual output on game day.

You didn't want to include TOG for those 2 though? Does it hurt your defence?
Pitto TOG - 74%
TDK TOG - 85%

As for Fantasia vs Motlop......i chose that comparison before even looking at the stats and was surprised how much better Motlop did.
Im not the one making an argument here.  TDK was playing as a forward (poorly at that) and my standout moment of the game for him, was us conceding whilst he was checking on a teamate that fell over, and the opposition waltzed away with the footy.  Look after your mate later thanks.

I have no complaints with Pittonet, and have defended him from the time he signed a 4 year deal.

Re: Motlop, he gets a free pass because we are bereft of young talent, but he is not anywhere near elite for a small forward.  I cant remember the last time he scored a goal and did well, and we are about to move him around the ground to try and find other ways to impact the game.

My point was this.

TDK gets credit. Pittonet gets not much (this game being perhaps the only exception in recent time) but stats wise.....it does NOT give you any insight into what the market offers are. That is, based on output, both are worth the same.

Similarly Fantasia and Motlop. Both get chastised. Motlop has age on his side and is performing at least to the same level of the wiley old veteran we recruited for his experience. Who should be congratulated and who should be chastised for not giving enough.

If i put comparisons of player a vs player b....we have a different discussion than if i put the actual names there.....and that is the issue. Peoples perception change based on the names. Forget the names, look at whats being offered in terms of output.

I'm not selective.
Curnow, Weitering, TDK, Cripps.....they've all copped it from me lately.

The take home point is this....
Perform, or piss off and give a kid a go.
26
Robert Heatley Stand / Re: AFL Rd 18 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Brisbane
Last post by kruddler -
Quote from: madbluboy – on
Quote from: kruddler – on


lol.....not surprised you are living in a 'fantasy' world.


Are you going LP on me. The stats only matter if you put them up.

Stats are stats.

Supercoach points can change based on free kicks given for / against.
You can have a free kick against you for a 'professional free' or from a poor umpiring decision.
A long kick to a 50-50 contest is an effective kick even if we lose it. If it goes 40m to a contest its ineffective.

Motlop kicked the ball through for an opposition behind. By those stats, its ineffective. By reality, he saved us a goal.

There is too much grey area on supercoach points.
27
Robert Heatley Stand / Re: VFL 2025 Rd 16 Carlton vs Brisbane
Last post by kruddler -
Quote from: Thryleon – on
@kruddler

Now that the season is dead, you set standards.  You a kid wanting to play AFL footy?  You need to bang the door down like this VFL hack who isnt good enough.  Why is he so much better at the level than you if he's rubbish?

AFL players?  You want to play AFL footy or continue at the club?  Dont go to the VFL and give us what Blake Acres did today.  He should have been one of the best on.  Instead he was just going.  The workrate was there, the ability to hit targets not.  Thats a negative for an important senior player. 

Set the standards now.  Playing the kids at AFL level before they have time, or gifting us games through a rebuild is precisely why we are rubbish.  Brisbane's Deven Robertson has been squeezed out of their senior team.   He has that many players ahead of him, you could forgive him for going at half rat power.  They were 6 goals up with 10 minutes to play, and he ended up with a bloody nose because of his commitment to the contest, and statistically was 2nd best Lion on the day, out of 18 senior listed players.  He isnt guaranteed a game next week, and it shows.  Our boys by contrast, dont want it enough. Set THAT standard.  Its way more important than gifting any young kid a game.

Look, i get it.

Set the standard, reward VFL form etc. Thats fine. That CAN lead to improvement on field. Its what we've done in the last few weeks though and how has that worked out?
If we only picked blokes who were setting standards, we'd have about half a teams worth of players running out each week.

So...that ain't working. Remembering we rewarded Evans 2 weeks ago, then found him wanting and shafted him back to the 2's, now we want to promote him again? Its not helping us, him or anyone.

We have to make some very tough calls this off-season. We've got 6-7 weeks to gather a wealth of information that we normally wouldn't be able to do if we were still in finals contention. Don't blow it.

Lemmey is possibly more likely to be delisted then re-signed for next year. Are we 100% certain thats the right thing to do?
Play him in the 1's and find out.
White? Young? Play them.
Evans and Fantasia....we know what we will get....what do we gain by playing them??

Billy Wilson....Jaxon Binns.....at this stage, i'd delist them both. Play them and see if they can surprise you.
Give Charleson a crack while you can.

These blokes will give you more effort in the 1's than most of the team so far. We are not playing to win. So what are we playing for??
28
Robert Heatley Stand / Re: AFL Rd 18 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Brisbane
Last post by Gointocarlton -
Quote from: cookie2 – on
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on

I'll agree when they had to be MBB, but i thought they fiddled and over used the ball a lot.

Agreed. They also missed quite a few goal scoring opportunities. Not as bad as us but nevertheless still significant.

I feel like we missed some absolute sitters where as they kicked those. Ours were particularly deflating, especially early.
29
Robert Heatley Stand / Re: AFL Rd 18 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Brisbane
Last post by cookie2 -
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
Quote from: madbluboy – on
Disagree Elwood, Brisbane were ferocious.

I'll agree when they had to be MBB, but i thought they fiddled and over used the ball a lot.

Agreed. They also missed quite a few goal scoring opportunities. Not as bad as us but nevertheless still significant.
30
Robert Heatley Stand / Re: AFL Rd 19 2025 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Melbourne
Last post by PaulP -
Quote from: Thryleon – on
What did he do?

I missed it from where I was sitting.  Its a shame, because we are crying out for a player to stand up and fly the flag.  We sighted for football acts, not anything resembling physicality.

I think he bumped into an umpire, which for him is the 4th time in 2 years, which now means a visit to the Tribunal. Just laughable.

https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/afl-2025-michael-voss-comments-on-umpire-contact-chris-fagan-comments-on-umpire-contact-lachie-cowan-umpire-contact-will-ashcroft-will-adam-cerra-be-suspended-umpire-contact-crackdown-comments-reactions-latest-news/news-story/bac036ee46618efdb4dc55f032a3e302