We'll lock the game thread up shortly.
Let's concentrate on discussion of the game in this one ;)
Not a bad effort for three quarters....but washed away in the last
Quite a few passengers tonight.
When does this year finish?
When does this year finish?
Round 1 2015
With that many spuds in the side it was never going to be any different, only Freo's showboating saved us from a 60 or 70 point walloping.
We have no key position players, none, nada, zilch, it's going to be a long road back.
I dont see what every1 else must see in Menzel. He does sweet f all. Lots of players down tonight......too many. Cas has to learn to impose himself. The ball was never kicked well too him or not even in his general direction but hes got to learn that in games like that, hes got to impose his body and strength and compete. He seemed to give up and get pushed off theball too easily.
AFAIC Yarran and Hendo can pack their bags now. They are a shadow of their former selves. Yazz is bordering on being an imposter.
Gameplan. What is it.. ? Why on earth would you kick the ball backward 50 meters if you have posession forward of the wing? Got me stuffed why we go back and sideways so often when the obvious play is to give our fwds the best chance of marking it and getting the ball I50 quickly.
Mm frustrated me. We might be competing better for longer in games but JB aint instilling me with much confidence either with this game plan.
Ugly game and we hung in there for a while but in the end some of our blokes just stopped trying...with the Hwaks next week it could be a 20 goal plus beating if we dont
play 4 quarters and at least keep them honest..
Yarran....ok at times and horrible at times like he didnt care...not sure where his future is
Jamo....lousy start but seemed to recover his composure...
Henderson.....couple of good things mixed with some ordinary efforts including easy dropped marks, poor ball use.....see Chris Yarran ..
Docherty...good and showed fine attack on the footy..probably has the B&F in the bag//
Simpson.....did ok but wasnt his usual effective self IMO.
Buckley... liked his game, mixed it and beat Ballaantyne but can turn it over... though I dont mind that when you are trying to create something and the lad has a go.
Fields.....another education for Tom.....
Touhy...not for me tonight, wasnt taken with his game at all and thought he put the cue in the rack and wasnt that interested..
Everitt...one nice goal and nothing else...lacked intent on the ball and played bruise free footy...needs dropping to the NB's
Menzel...subbed out after one goal and not much else..not sure if injured..
Walsh.. subbed in for Menzel and found Fyfe, Mundy, Barlow and crew a fair step up from the VFL....got caught between contests and obviously needs
game time and educating how to read the game..
Murphy....had DeBoer for company who knocked him around, tried hard but didnt impact..
Curnow...plenty of ball, worked hard but his disposal is atrocious....
Bell...couple of handy goals along with some typical brain dead ball usage....
Casboult....never got near it all night and he was playing on a no name player ..Pearce from memory...not good enough...
Kruezer...got smacked in the ruck but worked hard around the ground...tired in the end and Sandy had a picnic in the ruck...
Tutt....for the King its probably a reasonable game but he turns the ball over with timid play and isnt up to it...wouldnt be sleeping well knowing its the Hawks next week.
Cripps...tougher night at the office with Freo's star mids in action but he battled on and would have learned something...
Holman...just went, kicking was ordinary and he needs a couple of big games to secure his spot on the list.
Carrazzo..not a big night and weight of numbers with Freos mids made life hard...
White....ok on superstar Fyfe in a Crowley type role and did limit the brownlow favourite....
Rowe....poor game and looked like a SANFL player...
I dont see what every1 else must see in Menzel. He does sweet f all.
Menzel has missed quite a few games with injury and certainly not fit. Think that's obvious to anyone that knows anything. People just don't want to see that. He's shown he can play during his first 2 years.
Dylan Buckley 23 touches at 87% disposal efficiency. Only one clanger in the game. Not bad for a kid hell bent on taking the game on. One massive positive to take out of the game. Beats his man as well.
Holman coming along nicely definitely looks up to the tempo of AFL football.
Simon White amazing effort I think he beat Fyfe tonight Fyfe had little to no influence on the game and White kicked a goal.
Rowe and Everitt were poo both need to taste some reserves action. I don't even want to think about Yarran and hendo just a terrible situation to be in both are losing value on the trade table at a rapid rate we may get very little for them in the end.
Watched the first 10 mins, wasn't at all enamoured with the game, couldn't see us winning and that was it for me, apart from score/stat updates on the AFL app. Real happy I didn't stick around to watch what must've been a horrific last quarter that could've been so much worse.
Don't think I've dreaded a game as much as I'm dreading next Friday night......
No real champions tonight. I was amazed to see we had 74 tackles which I thought we actually had way less. The effective tackles would have been far fewer. We did play the top side and were in the game up until the last quarter. No score at all in the last is a complete joke IMO. No matter who you play, and no matter what the conditions are.
Funny thing is that our more dangerous players of the past were Henderson, Menzel and Yarram. Yet in more recent games they are our biggest passengers. I really am not happy with this game tonight at all. Fair call that we did try to keep us in the contest and game for most of the game. However, Freo let us off the hook by turning the ball over too often. Their coach will be furious with their performance. If we bring what we did tonight against Hawthorn, we better expect a 100 point loss. They know how to crush sides.
There are a few positives, but I will need to see the replay to see what they were. Sure Kreuzer struggled against the bigger body Sandilands, but I still see him as being in our best 5. His second and third efforts always stand out. I just wish he could kick more goals for us. We lack the ability to put the pressure on the score board. >:(
Simon White amazing effort I think he beat Fyfe tonight Fyfe had little to no influence on the game and White kicked a goal.
And there we have it......everyone bagging the crap out of White when he's having to play totally out of position opposed to key forwards, yet when he gets the chance to play his best position (a run-with negating role), we get to see that he actually can add to this team in a very positive way.....think back to round 1 & the job he did on Dusty Martin, got injured when playing on LeCras in round 2 & hasn't played that role again since his return from injury until tonight and BINGO - we have a winner!!!
White did well holding the Brownlow favourite away from any points in this game. White is far from our worst and maybe in our best when he is played in a role that suits him best. He isn't a key defender playing on a monster. Neither is Henderson. Hendo isn't a key defender or a key forward. Henderson needs to go for a pick. He is a wingman at best at the moment and I think he has his bags already packed to move on. Rowe is not a key forward. He is a defender. He needs to stay. Levi at the moment is not a ruck. He isn't a key forward. I am not sure what he is. I don't want to call him a liability. I really don't. However it is on the tip of my tongue.
I still can't see why we grabbed King Tutt. I also think without Wood in the side we are in trouble.
Where is Walker at the moment. Without Thomas, Judd, Armfield, and Yarran sleeping we have no real run. We gave Garlett away for free. Where is our run and carry going to come from. Sorry to load your shoulders up Barker, but you have little to work with at the moment. I feel sorry for you. I really do.
Our style of play did not allow us the chance to win tonight. We set up way too defensively. I got sick of seeing the ball kicked to Hendo with two or three blokes on him and not a crumber in sight. In fact we've been too defensive the last couple of weeks.
We're not taking the game on and seem to be playing in the Malthouse style again. We're boring to watch and still having holes picked in our defence with extra men in our defensive half. Lets get back to the run and gun approach of the Adelaide and Port Adelaide games and display the energy we had in those matches. Besides this the skills and decision making left a lot to be desired and Everitt,Hendo, Menzel and Yarran are taking the piss.
Good performances by Bucks, Cripps, Docherty and Kreuzer.
Closer than expected really, and freo mucking about would not impress their coach. It was a 10 goal win really.
We are where we are at because we have few skillful players and many dont work hard enough to compensate.
Liked the game of white alot. He stuck hard to his task, and was rewarded with a goal. No easy job against fyfe. Other good players included docherty, murphy (who gets smashed every week) and Buckly who provided run and created options.
Our forward line was non existant, and too often we had the ball around half back in the clear, but we still had 2 or even 3 defenders behind the ball. Easy for freo to set up against with a spare man, so our forwards were playing against several defenders.
It was a very tough game, and the rain late made for tired legs and alot of fumbles. Nevertheless, and even with some good players out, i wonder what the coaching instructions were. We lacked structure and had players moving about position making it even harder to keep shape. Kicking backwards and sideways is a dual result of a lack of confidence and a lack of run but good coaching shouldn't allow it. This thread is about the game, not the coaching, but it was not a great display.
Hendo has the potential to be a decent key forward, but im beginning to doubt his commitment as well as the coaching he has received. If a good trade is on offer it should be considered. Yes he looks more comfortable at half back, but he has more talent, and it is currently being squandered by him and the club. Yarran is a mess, and players such as curnow and Carrazzo have limitations that we all know well.
Hawthorn next week. The way they demolished the swans says it will likely get very ugly.
We're not taking the game on and seem to be playing in the Malthouse style again. We're boring to watch and still having holes picked in our defence with extra men in our defensive half. Lets get back to the run and gun approach of the Adelaide and Port Adelaide games and display the energy we had in those matches. Besides this the skills and decision making left a lot to be desired and Everitt,Hendo, Menzel and Yarran are taking the piss.
It's funny you say that I thought the same last night there was plenty of Mick in the way we played, especially in the last quarter. I wonder if the players lapsed back into it or if it was via instruction. Either way, not Barker's greatest night and it well could have been a little more ugly if Freo has kicked straight.
lots of negativity again on this forum like to put it down to after game disappointment but what did people expect. We went to perth played the top team who were coming off a bad loss, wanting redemption we held in there for three quarters got tired and run over at the end .
42 points in the end isnt a bad loss, now before people jump on me for saying a loss is unacceptable get some reality. People here want the to play the kids and ther playing the kids then they bag the kid sor the coaching or its the senior guys fault, well maybe its hard with a lot of young guys not running to the right positions etc.
Maybe when under pressure from one of the best lock down teams around you look up the ground and cant make the best choice because of pressure on other players around you, 1 seconds hesitation and your gone. Young players will learn to sum up the game and know where to run to eventually but not in games against Freo at Freo.
Everyone expects the older guys to carry the young ones through but as we know with our leadership vacuum that aint gonna happen, that why Cripps is getting a heavy tag after 16 games cause he is a born leader and can carry us forward and opp coaches reconise that and tag it. Keep playing the kids let them learn but dont expect a team with injured players {menzel} and young players on every line to beat freo in perth .
This team lost me at the start of the year cause they had no heart for the contest but under Barker at least they are tackling and competing and trying. Making mistakes that cost goals and make me want to smash the tv but at least thers some passion in it {well except Yarran} Hawks beat swans by 89 we lost by 45 after being 21`down at 3/4 time it didnt get over 30 untill midway through the qtr. Learning curve as Barker said
It seems Wood needed a rest....and we probably conceded the ruck hit-outs anyway...
But I'm just wondering whether his absence and the fact that Casboult had to do a bit of extra rucking affected his (Casboult's ) performance.
He was a bit of a missing man last night...don't remember seeing much of him at all...especially around the goals.
(Although at times we didn't see many players around our goals. :()
Barker's honeymoon is over!!
lots of negativity again on this forum like to put it down to after game disappointment but what did people expect. We went to perth played the top team who were coming off a bad loss, wanting redemption we held in there for three quarters got tired and run over at the end .
42 points in the end isnt a bad loss, now before people jump on me for saying a loss is unacceptable get some reality. People here want the to play the kids and ther playing the kids then they bag the kid sor the coaching or its the senior guys fault, well maybe its hard with a lot of young guys not running to the right positions etc.
Maybe when under pressure from one of the best lock down teams around you look up the ground and cant make the best choice because of pressure on other players around you, 1 seconds hesitation and your gone. Young players will learn to sum up the game and know where to run to eventually but not in games against Freo at Freo.
Everyone expects the older guys to carry the young ones through but as we know with our leadership vacuum that aint gonna happen, that why Cripps is getting a heavy tag after 16 games cause he is a born leader and can carry us forward and opp coaches reconise that and tag it. Keep playing the kids let them learn but dont expect a team with injured players {menzel} and young players on every line to beat freo in perth .
This team lost me at the start of the year cause they had no heart for the contest but under Barker at least they are tackling and competing and trying. Making mistakes that cost goals and make me want to smash the tv but at least thers some passion in it {well except Yarran} Hawks beat swans by 89 we lost by 45 after being 21`down at 3/4 time it didnt get over 30 untill midway through the qtr. Learning curve as Barker said
Generally agree with this. When that performance is put in context....................
Disappointed ? Extremely.
Surprised ? Probably not.
I don't want to be negative and I didn't expect us to win given the amount of newbies we had in the team, the fact it wasn't our best 22 and that Freo are on top of the ladder for good reason. I don't believe the new guys let us down and the margin at the end of the day was acceptable.
I was disappointed though with our approach in terms of moving the ball and the performance of the more senior guys in the team obviously with some exceptions to this (Murphy and White come to mind). Whether it was by instruction or just the way the players approached it, we never gave ourselves the best chance to win. I think we could have acquitted ourselves a lot better with the senior players playing more to their potential and the team taking the game on. Maybe Army is more integral to our game style than we care to admit. Most players cracked in all night, which is a far cry from where we were under Magic Mick and its a level of effort that should be a non negotiable week to week. Lets take it to the Hawks this week.
The Carlton PR machine will spin that we have turned the corner, but we are exactly the same as when Malthouse was serving up awful football...
What happened to the run, spirit and effort we showed against Port ? I'm also concerned about what appears to be a backwards retreat.
Agreed...
What happened to the run, spirit and effort we showed against Port ? I'm also concerned about what appears to be a backwards retreat.
There was no run last night, looked like we were trying a style of "draw and kick/handball" . It did lead to a few goals but the way we miss targets, its a hard ask.
When we did run and take the game on there was nothing in the forward line most of the time unless it was a double teamed Hendo.
It's not about winning, they just want to look at the list and what the can do.
Bloody hard to watch.
Barker started by not worrying about getting the job, letting the players run and play with freedom. A few injuries and some plaudits from the scribes about Barker's coaching and all of a sudden we play the lets not get hammered game style again, is it because JB really thinks he's a chance and doesn't want to screw it up? Cause by doing that he is shooting himself in the foot or career.
I got sick of seeing our players put their head over the ball and get hit high, it might be an accident but high contact is still high contact and deserves a free. FFS Fyfe actually turned side on and braced himself.
We have the people complaining about Yarran and rightly so to a big degree, but when players don't get him the ball when he's in the clear like Buckley didn't then if you already have a negative attitude you won't continue to run, it's fine to say he should have that frame of mind but he's human.
lots of negativity again on this forum like to put it down to after game disappointment but what did people expect. We went to perth played the top team who were coming off a bad loss, wanting redemption we held in there for three quarters got tired and run over at the end .
42 points in the end isnt a bad loss, now before people jump on me for saying a loss is unacceptable get some reality. People here want the to play the kids and ther playing the kids then they bag the kid sor the coaching or its the senior guys fault, well maybe its hard with a lot of young guys not running to the right positions etc.
Maybe when under pressure from one of the best lock down teams around you look up the ground and cant make the best choice because of pressure on other players around you, 1 seconds hesitation and your gone. Young players will learn to sum up the game and know where to run to eventually but not in games against Freo at Freo.
Everyone expects the older guys to carry the young ones through but as we know with our leadership vacuum that aint gonna happen, that why Cripps is getting a heavy tag after 16 games cause he is a born leader and can carry us forward and opp coaches reconise that and tag it. Keep playing the kids let them learn but dont expect a team with injured players {menzel} and young players on every line to beat freo in perth .
This team lost me at the start of the year cause they had no heart for the contest but under Barker at least they are tackling and competing and trying. Making mistakes that cost goals and make me want to smash the tv but at least thers some passion in it {well except Yarran} Hawks beat swans by 89 we lost by 45 after being 21`down at 3/4 time it didnt get over 30 untill midway through the qtr. Learning curve as Barker said
Just about nailed it IMO Tommy. Just watched the replay and yes we were ragged round the edges, took poor options at times and made skill errors BUT we had a good go in the first 3 qtrs against the #1 team. We are definitely showing more heart and bearing in mind we were giving valuable game time to young guys like Walsh, Fields and Holman. I think we do have something to work with but again it will come back to our ability to snare more talent in the draft and trade periods and to replace those who don't want to be there or we don't want to be there.
Barker started by not worrying about getting the job, letting the players run and play with freedom. A few injuries and some plaudits from the scribes about Barker's coaching and all of a sudden we play the lets not get hammered game style again, is it because JB really thinks he's a chance and doesn't want to screw it up? Cause by doing that he is shooting himself in the foot or career.
I got sick of seeing our players put their head over the ball and get hit high, it might be an accident but high contact is still high contact and deserves a free. FFS Fyfe actually turned side on and braced himself.
We have the people complaining about Yarran and rightly so to a big degree, but when players don't get him the ball when he's in the clear like Buckley didn't then if you already have a negative attitude you won't continue to run, it's fine to say he should have that frame of mind but he's human.
Barker is doing what the club wants.
They (SOS) just don't want to see the kids playing, they want to see them playing pressure football.
Don't expect any change to this MO. The list is about to get a (another) overhaul.
Just about nailed it IMO Tommy. Just watched the replay and yes we were ragged round the edges, took poor options at times and made skill errors BUT we had a good go in the first 3 qtrs against the #1 team. We are definitely showing more heart and bearing in mind we were giving valuable game time to young guys like Walsh, Fields and Holman. I think we do have something to work with but again it will come back to our ability to snare more talent in the draft and trade periods and to replace those who don't want to be there or we don't want to be there.
Bingo!
Nice summary, Fluffy One. Totally agree. Good to get a look at what we have. I don't think it is PR or spin to say, as JB is, 'We know where we're at and there is a lot of work to be done' or words to that effect. Considering that Kreuz was probably our only decent big bloke last night for us and considering who is out injured and who is playing injured (Menzel!) last night was not as bad as some might think. We do have a long way to go and a lot to learn but I do believe there are signs we're culturally improving - now we need some better cattle, especially big blokes.
Barker is doing what the club wants.
They (SOS) just don't want to see the kids playing, they want to see them playing pressure football.
Don't expect any change to this MO. The list is about to get a (another) overhaul.
According to Andy Mckay there wont be any major culling at seasons end which I find extraordinary given some of the players we have and the little they have shown.
I agree though it seems to be about throwing kids in the deep end and seeing who can swim uner pressure.....only a couple are waving not drowning and Barker would be in the same position as Ratten was and following orders probably originating from SOS..
Mackay has little idea IMO, list manager is running the show now.
According to Andy Mckay there wont be any major culling at seasons end which I find extraordinary given some of the players we have and the little they have shown.
I agree though it seems to be about throwing kids in the deep end and seeing who can swim uner pressure.....only a couple are waving not drowning and Barker would be in the same position as Ratten was and following orders probably originating from SOS..
I'd reckon McKay is just trying to keep morale up until the end of season.
They need the players to show something and, for the most part, they have.
I'd reckon McKay is just trying to keep morale up until the end of season.
They need the players to show something and, for the most part, they have.
They have.
It's been a bit erratic though
It's the consistency of performance, and getting them all firing at the same time that we're missing.
Some of those younger players will be a lot better with another season of games in them.
The players who would be concerned would be those who had been on the list for a while but aren't getting an opportunity....that's where the culling will mostly come from, but probably no more than about half a dozen.
There may however be some extra movement of players through trades
And there we have it......everyone bagging the crap out of White when he's having to play totally out of position opposed to key forwards, yet when he gets the chance to play his best position (a run-with negating role), we get to see that he actually can add to this team in a very positive way.....think back to round 1 & the job he did on Dusty Martin, got injured when playing on LeCras in round 2 & hasn't played that role again since his return from injury until tonight and BINGO - we have a winner!!!
Beat me to it Brettie.
White has had to plug too many holes and they have been some BIG holes he's attempted to plug. He gives his all no matter what.
When he can play the way he we know he can, he dominates against the unbackable brownlow favourite.
If only we had a decent key forward or 2, we could play Hendo back, white as a 'small' and our side is 100% better.
Beat me to it Brettie.
White has had to plug too many holes and they have been some BIG holes he's attempted to plug. He gives his all no matter what.
When he can play the way he we know he can, he dominates against the unbackable brownlow favourite.
If only we had a decent key forward or 2, we could play Hendo back, white as a 'small' and our side is 100% better.
Testify brother!!!
I left Freo v Us, with these thoughts:
- solid effort Q1,2,3 by most players
- stiffled Q4 by seasoned Freo outfit
- Kruez, Crippa, Doc, Buckley, Murphy worked hard behind the scenes
- Hendo, Yaz, Rowe strugged to engage in the game
- White - Got the best of one of the best... (loved him in this role)
- our young fellas stood to learn so much running around with the class of Walters, Mundy, and Maine
- no doubt the Hawks will further our learning opportunity ^-^
Go Blues
LoveNavy. Pretty much all of what you said is about right. Taking negative thoughts about the game out of the equation. It takes a day or two to take the knee jerk reaction out of your opinion on any game. We were not great with our ball use, but we did have a high tackle count, so I am not completely lost with hope with our side. We do need to top up with some good seasoned players and some good young kids at the end of the season. Our stock count isn't the best, yet maybe not the worst either. ;)
Mantis.
I agree with you, wisdom flows from reflection (not the heat of the moment high emotion). Whilst there's plenty of room for growth, there's also plenty of exciting talent in the side. And yes, our tackling has improved remarkably, a credit to the whole crew.
I have certainly gone away from a game feeling more deflated than last night.
As far as the 'synergy' well combined sides consistently display, that takes time. I'm patient :)
I'm excited to see the development of the young guns like Cripps, Boekerst, Walsh, and Fields (what a gigantic kick...)
White should be our #1 tagger and let Curnow play offensively. He's ideal for that role IMO. Even if his opponent takes him forward he'll be able to defend too. Something Curnow can't do.
First game in years I didn't bother watching.
Expected a flogging, but glad to hear we hung in there for a while and the belting didn't eventuate..
Basic skill errors again let us down.
The kids seem to be holding up alright at AFL level.
Mantis.
I agree with you, wisdom flows from reflection (not the heat of the moment high emotion). Whilst there's plenty of room for growth, there's also plenty of exciting talent in the side. And yes, our tackling has improved remarkably, a credit to the whole crew.
I have certainly gone away from a game feeling more deflated than last night.
As far as the 'synergy' well combined sides consistently display, that takes time. I'm patient :)
I'm excited to see the development of the young guns like Cripps, Boekerst, Walsh, and Fields (what a gigantic kick...)
Until we find a formula to gets the best out of softies like Hendo, Yarran, Everitt and Gibbs (add Menzel too?) we'll always struggle....
All high or mid first round draft picks and all pretty darn lazy a lot of the time imo.
All potential A graders with the right amount of fire in their belly (noting Yarran apparently has some off field issues to sort.....).
5 match winners producing zip and impacting minimally on a game.
Imagine if Breust, Rioli, Hodge, Roughead and Lewis decided to only 'turn up' sporadically?!!
Beat me to it Brettie.
White has had to plug too many holes and they have been some BIG holes he's attempted to plug. He gives his all no matter what.
When he can play the way he we know he can, he dominates against the unbackable brownlow favourite.
If only we had a decent key forward or 2, we could play Hendo back, white as a 'small' and our side is 100% better.
I'd play Henderson back anyway. May as well play Jaksch forward now. We recruited him as a forward so may as well give him the experience there now the season's done. Nothing much to lose at this stage of the year. Henderson becomes a different player when played down back.
Probably give Menzel a few weeks off to recover from what ever he's carrying, he's obviously not fit.
Liking White. He had the right size and run to go with Fyfe. Fyfe wouldn't get many run-with types his size. Showing he can play 3rd tall in defence, midfield run-with role and can be useful forward too if needed.