Carlton Supporters Club

Social Club => Blah-Blah Bar => Topic started by: capcom on April 26, 2022, 12:38:43 pm

Title: Musk
Post by: capcom on April 26, 2022, 12:38:43 pm
Elon gets control over twitter .... how will the petals cope with that ... 



Title: Re: Musk
Post by: LP on April 26, 2022, 12:47:37 pm
His main deal so far is to have Twitter add an edit button so people can change / revise tweets, it's basically panders to Trump like personalities who can have an unhinged rant and then "refine" the meaning later!
Title: Re: Musk
Post by: capcom on April 26, 2022, 01:05:51 pm
It's called free speech ... read it or just choose to ignore it.
Title: Re: Musk
Post by: Mav on April 26, 2022, 01:12:06 pm
LP, not sure that would work given that people are pretty quick to get screenshots and would be even quicker if an edit button was used in that way.

Not sure the snowflakes will be happy with him either. De Santis has shown that he's only against cancel culture when fellow snowflakes are under fire. But he's happy to use political power to cancel anyone who stands against his agenda, for example Disney opposing the "Don't say gay" law. Giving a guy like Musk power to ban De Santis and others of his ilk limits De Santis' power. And Musk isn't the sort to suck up to politicians; if anything, he goes out of his way to put noses out of joint. De Santis and Trump would have been far happier if Peter Thiel had bought Twitter.

Fact is, neither the left nor the right are happy with social media power and breaking up their monopolies would win broad support.
Title: Re: Musk
Post by: LP on April 26, 2022, 01:20:31 pm
LP, not sure that would work given that people are pretty quick to get screenshots and would be even quicker if an edit button was used in that way.
Musk won't care what kids or techno savvy social media types do routinely.

His target will be the billions of blocked, banned or restricted users across China, India, France, Russia, etc., etc..  we take access to this stuff for granted, most of the world do not even get it!

Musk is selling a minimal change, but his target will be to get Twitter into these locations and then sell it again with double the audience and a greatly inflated price. He doesn't care about democracy, but he won't be silly enough to make himself a defacto world president, he is just another media megalomaniac like Murdoch!
Title: Re: Musk
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on April 26, 2022, 01:24:42 pm
Musk owned around 5.2% worth of shares and then improved his holding to around 9% which spiked the share price straight after by around 25%, nice little earner for Elon. However the securities commission required disclosure of his initial holding which he failed to do within the 10 day time frame and one irate shareholder is taking legal action on behalf of other shareholders given Musk saved 143 million dollars. Hard to comprehend Musk has 87 million followers on twitter, he said he wants to promote free speech with few restrictions and no doubt will use it to push his own ideas to the world and make some more money.
He took a margin loan to part bankroll the deal and of course in the USA you can deduct investment interest expense up to the amount of your net taxable investment income, Elon aint no twit if you pardon the pun...
Elons definition of free speech is " Is someone you don’t like allowed to say something you don’t like"?.. If that is the case, then we have free speech’.”
Title: Re: Musk
Post by: LP on April 26, 2022, 01:27:58 pm
It's called free speech ... read it or just choose to ignore it.
Unfortunately "Free Speech" is more often used as a cover for hate speech, it's the old game that has been played out since pre-WWII.

When the Nazis rose to power they did so by promoting a "false truth", that the people were not being heard by the authorities. The Nazis claimed they would listen to the public and do the public's bidding, but once they got power the exact opposite happened and censorship and information control ruled the media of the time.

Some even see Google as a modern day variant if this, Trump certainly is and Bolsonaro another, the actions do not match the words and historically regulated platforms like Twitter brought their bullshizen undone.

Oddly Putin is technically the antithesis pretty much ignoring his people's perspective and pandering to the ruling elite, at the moment though blokes like Putin and Jinping do not matter because Russia and China are not on Twitter.

How do you find the truth if Musk tweaks Twitter to get countries like Russia and China onboard?

This will be Musk's goal, he'll see Twitters worth rise by some significant multiplier if he can get the other half of the world using it, do not expect him to be altruistic or even care!
Title: Re: Musk
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on April 26, 2022, 01:45:58 pm
Unfortunately "Free Speech" is more often used as a cover for hate speech, it's the old game that has been played out since pre-WWII.

When the Nazis rose to power they did so by promoting a "false truth", that the people were not being heard by the authorities. The Nazis claimed they would listen to the public and do the public's bidding, but once they got power the exact opposite happened and censorship and information control ruled the media of the time.

Some even see Google as a modern day variant if this, Trump certainly is and Bolsonaro another, the actions do not match the words and historically regulated platforms like Twitter brought their bullshizen undone.

Oddly Putin is technically the antithesis pretty much ignoring his people's perspective and pandering to the ruling elite, at the moment though blokes like Putin and Jinping do not matter because Russia and China are not on Twitter.

How do you find the truth if Musk tweaks Twitter to get countries like Russia and China onboard?

This will be Musk's goal, he'll see Twitters worth rise by some significant multiplier if he can get the other half of the world using it, do not expect him to be altruistic or even care!
Putin has good support from the people especially the mid to old range who loved the old Soviet days, he has sold the idea that the Nazi's aided by NATO will attack Russia if he doesnt show who is the boss. We have friends who live in Krasnador and there is a level of apathy and trust in Putin according to them given the media blitz to endorse the " special operation" in Ukraine.
Like Hitler he has lunatic charisma that appeals to those happy to be led by the nose and be reminded of the glory days of the past. You visit Russia and all the old WW2 memorials, monuments, eternal flame sites are all well preserved and they have boards and boards of those who died defending Russia from the Nazis, they celebrate victories with big parades and Putin wants to be another Stalin and have that glory on his CV.
Title: Re: Musk
Post by: Mav on April 26, 2022, 02:04:09 pm
Time waits for no man, though. Putin will turn 70 later on this year. There's speculation that video he released of discussions with his military leaders shows him gripping the corners of his meeting room table to suppress tremors which might be caused by Parkinson's Disease. And there's an even more problematic possibility that he has thryroid cancer. Maybe that's just propaganda from or wishful thinking by Ukraine or the West, but it's not as though he isn't an old guy now. 

Apparently, he also suffers from a bad back allegedly caused by a fall off a horse a while back as he tried to project an image of the rugged outdoors hero or a judo session that went wrong. Maybe his swashbuckling days are over.
Title: Re: Musk
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on April 26, 2022, 02:24:51 pm
Time waits for no man, though. Putin will turn 70 later on this year. There's speculation that video he released of discussions with his military leaders shows him gripping the corners of his meeting room table to suppress tremors which might be caused by Parkinson's Disease. And there's an even more problematic possibility that he has thryroid cancer. Maybe that's just propaganda from or wishful thinking by Ukraine or the West, but it's not as though he isn't an old guy now. 

Apparently, he also suffers from a bad back allegedly caused by a fall off a horse a while back as he tried to project an image of the rugged outdoors hero or a judo session that went wrong. Maybe his swashbuckling days are over.
Hitler had Parkinsons, Syphilis and a host of other conditions, he went down swinging in the bunker and I fear Vlad the Invader might do the same hence his eagerness to deploy his Sarmat 2 nukes which can be fired by a variety of means.
I'd be offering Vlad a future not waiting for him to create a past.......
Title: Re: Musk
Post by: capcom on April 26, 2022, 02:48:45 pm
Unfortunately "Free Speech" is more often used as a cover for hate speech, it's the old game that has been played out since pre-WWII.

AGAIN, who is the final arbiter on that?  Just subjective.  And we see growing censorship everywhere, especially from governments, something I passionately hate regardless of left or right.  Like it or not, you CANNOT control thought.  And no, I don't use social media
Title: Re: Musk
Post by: Mav on April 26, 2022, 02:49:31 pm
As well as favouring unregulated freedom of speech on Twitter, Musk also wants to limit Twitter to authenticated users. This, he believes, will lessen the extreme rhetoric as users won't be able to hide behind anonymous accounts. He also says he wants to rid Twitter of spam accounts and bots.

Interestingly, his commitment to free speech isn't absolute. He's quite happy to enforce the restrictions on free speech imposed by authorities around the world.

The ball isn't only in Musk's court though. There's a legislative provision in the US which gives internet providers immunity from litigation over posts on their systems. In Congressional hearings, various politicians in the US have threatened to repeal that protection. If that ever happened, Twitter might then be on the hook for allowing defamatory posts or other objectionable posts to remain. To avoid liability, Twitter might have to put in place a system for moderating its content and that would see it back where it is now. Rather than actually repealing that protection, the threat of that repeal may be used to pressure Musk to moderate Twitter.
Title: Re: Musk
Post by: Mav on April 26, 2022, 02:57:45 pm
AGAIN, who is the final arbiter on that?  Just subjective.  And we see growing censorship everywhere, especially from governments, something I passionately hate regardless of left or right.  Like it or not, you CANNOT control thought.  And no, I don't use social media
As noted in my last post, free speech doesn't mean there are no consequences. It's hard to sue an anonymous poster for defamation, but if you can identify the poster then that's a different matter. Up in Sydney, a cosmetic surgeon has been awarded $450,000 in damages against another cosmetic surgeon who posted false bad reviews while posing as a dissatisfied customer.

If Musk does bring in a requirement that users authenticate their identities, that will be a pretty major curb on "free speech". It will also mean dissent in more brutal political systems will be much more dangerous.

If we want to allow anonymous posting and shield those users from any blowback for their online behaviour, there needs to be some way of limiting the malicious falsehoods. 
Title: Re: Musk
Post by: LP on April 26, 2022, 03:00:51 pm
To avoid liability, Twitter might have to put in place a system for moderating its content and that would see it back where it is now. Rather than actually repealing that protection, the threat of that repeal may be used to pressure Musk to moderate Twitter.
Musk would then just threaten to do for Twitter what he threatened to do for Tesla, and take it offshore!

I suspect the USA is so paranoid about losing the appearance of control over this techno stuff they'll fold like a house of cards, like they did when he threatened to move all of Tesla to China! The USA makes a big noise, but it is only about 8% of the affluent global market, or 3% of the global population, the global population is probably more important to Twitter than the affluence level.

I've also heard Musk will initiate some sort of paid version that is Ad limited or Ad free, and extend the current Ad supported model for the free versions. I note Microsoft has recently had a lot of success doing something similar for LinkedIn.
Title: Re: Musk
Post by: Mav on April 26, 2022, 03:08:25 pm
He's only able to run free like King Kong until they trap him on top of the Empire State Building.
Title: Re: Musk
Post by: LP on April 26, 2022, 03:12:19 pm
Some might think Musk sees himself as the real world Elliott Carver!

Quite hard to control an organisation that controls the satellites, and he's got about 10K of them up there already, buying Twitter is the ultimate vertical integration.
Title: Re: Musk
Post by: LP on April 26, 2022, 03:16:07 pm
AGAIN, who is the final arbiter on that? 
Society, it puts all the haters against the wall eventually.
Title: Re: Musk
Post by: capcom on April 26, 2022, 03:27:05 pm
Society, it puts all the haters against the wall eventually.

Not always LP ... not always. 
Title: Re: Musk
Post by: Mav on April 26, 2022, 04:05:34 pm
By the way, why is there a tendency to put our faith in billionaires to be altruistic? Even the philanthropic ones donate only a portion of the tax they're able to save through one dodge or another. Musk is going to expect a payoff for his $61b investment and I doubt he gives a rat's arse about the public good.

I would have thought the so-called billionaire Donald J. Trump would have opened everyone's eyes. Unlike in the "What have the Romans ever done for us?" sketch, I'm pretty confident that "What has Trump ever done for the battlers?" wouldn't elicit a string of achievements. But the richest did pretty well out of him. And Jared Kushner even scored a $2b dollar investment out of the Saudis after Trump sent him there as the emissary for world peace. 
Title: Re: Musk
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on April 26, 2022, 04:13:45 pm
By the way, why is there a tendency to put our faith in billionaires to be altruistic? Even the philanthropic ones donate only a portion of the tax they're able to save through one dodge or another. Musk is going to expect a payoff for his $61b investment and I doubt he gives a rat's arse about the public good.

I would have thought the so-called billionaire Donald J. Trump would have opened everyone's eyes. Unlike in the "What have the Romans ever done for us?" sketch, I'm pretty confident that "What has Trump ever done for the battlers?" wouldn't elicit a string of achievements. But the richest did pretty well out of him. And Jared Kushner even scored a $2b dollar investment out of the Saudis after Trump sent him there as the emissary for world peace. 
Share price has already climbed and he can claim on that margin loan, plus he funded the cash component from his Tesla shareholdings.
He wont be losing and like Tesla run at a loss and still make money on his shares.
Title: Re: Musk
Post by: capcom on April 26, 2022, 04:31:15 pm
By the way, why is there a tendency to put our faith in billionaires to be altruistic?

People did with george soros. 
Title: Re: Musk
Post by: capcom on April 26, 2022, 04:35:23 pm
Share price has already climbed and he can claim on that margin loan, plus he funded the cash component from his Tesla shareholdings.
He wont be losing and like Tesla run at a loss and still make money on his shares.

He's a character with more than a few flaws EB.  Very much a "watch this space". 
Title: Re: Musk
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on April 26, 2022, 04:43:14 pm
He's a character with more than a few flaws EB.  Very much a "watch this space". 
For sure Cap, Does his pressers after smoking a joint sometimes and is another weirdo.
Got some crazy ideas about living on Mars too...
Title: Re: Musk
Post by: Mav on April 26, 2022, 04:48:49 pm
People did with george soros. 
Did they? He has certainly donated a lot of money as has Bill Gates but that's pretty much behind the scenes. He doesn't market himself as a saviour and visionary who'll create a better world for everybody. Apart from the right-wing media trying to make him into the head of a globalist conspiracy (i.e. the Jews conspiring to take control of everything and everybody), I've hardly ever seen his name in the media. If only Trump and Musk could remain behind the scenes like that.

More importantly, I've never heard a serious suggestion that his philanthropic activities have been part of a strategy to enrich himself.
Title: Re: Musk
Post by: capcom on April 26, 2022, 06:37:16 pm
For sure Cap, Does his pressers after smoking a joint sometimes and is another weirdo.
Got some crazy ideas about living on Mars too...

"Spirit", "Opportunity" and the "Perseverance" rovers have shown us nothing of any interest or worthy of pursuit.  No amount of money justifies "flags and footprints" unless the destination is just days away (i.e. the moon).  We can but dream



Title: Re: Musk
Post by: shawny on April 26, 2022, 06:41:15 pm
Great news. The woke society is finally getting some resistance. Yippy.  
Title: Re: Musk
Post by: northernblue on April 26, 2022, 08:53:10 pm
I’m not on twitter and never will be as long as the owner is a guy who thinks labeling people “pedo guy” is free speech.
Title: Re: Musk
Post by: Mav on April 27, 2022, 01:15:27 pm
It's hard to think of better evidence that Musk is a narcissist than that episode. Remember, what sparked him off was that he wanted the rescuers trying to save the boys trapped in a Thai cave to use his rescue submarine to do the job. That would have made him a global superhero. Sadly for him, the rescuers said they had it covered, and they did.

You would have thought if his main purpose was to save the kids, he would have been ecstatic that they were rescued even if he wasn't involved in the rescue. He should have showered the rescuers with praise and perhaps offered them a nice reward.

Instead, he wanted to take down those rescuers, and what better way to do it than insinuate they were paedophiles. Pathetic, really ...

The skills of psychopaths and malignant narcissists can be harnessed to work for the public good. For instance, psychologists frequently point out that companies can use the skills of psychopaths in management and various professions seem to play to their strengths. But when they have the financial power to override any attempt to restrain them, any public good will be a lucky byproduct of satisfying their own needs.

Quick tip ... if anybody says "Only I can fix it!", run away as fast as you can. That sort of grandiosity is a red flag.
Title: Re: Musk
Post by: capcom on April 27, 2022, 02:14:10 pm
It's hard to think of better evidence that Musk is a narcissist than that episode. Remember, what sparked him off was that he wanted the rescuers trying to save the boys trapped in a Thai cave to use his rescue submarine to do the job. That would have made him a global superhero. Sadly for him, the rescuers said they had it covered, and they did.

It was proven after the event that Musk's "mini subs" could never have navigated the course.  As I said, the man has many flaws.  For example, building an EV without a spare.  Dumb, even if you were stupid enough to invest in one

Title: Re: Musk
Post by: LP on April 27, 2022, 03:16:59 pm
It was proven after the event that Musk's "mini subs" could never have navigated the course.  As I said, the man has many flaws.  For example, building an EV without a spare.  Dumb, even if you were stupid enough to invest in one
Yes, at least in the case of normal inflated tyres, but I do think they use run flats.

What will happen though when the new airless tyres like the Michelin UPTIS become more mainstream?
Title: Re: Musk
Post by: capcom on April 27, 2022, 03:41:41 pm
Yes, at least in the case of normal inflated tyres, but I do think they use run flats.

What will happen though when the new airless tyres like the Michelin UPTIS become more mainstream?

No they don't.

Your Tesla will not come with a spare tire/tyre, nor does it come with run flat tires/tyres, so if you get a puncture you are potentially stuck. Tesla offer a service where they will tow you up to 50 miles and possibly bring you a replacement wheel if you're near a service centre, but this has a couple of problems.

March 2022
Title: Re: Musk
Post by: Mav on April 27, 2022, 03:53:48 pm
A few commentators think this impulse buy by Musk might leave him in the same sort of quandary as a dog who chases a car and catches it: what does he do now? He'll now be the face of Twitter and he'll be responsible for the day-to-day management of it. And it's certain he's not going to please everybody. Every decision he makes will put someone offside. He's following a path that has become staple fare in superhero movies. For instance, in The Incredibles the superheroes are initially feted for bringing crime under control but then mistakes start to put the populace offside to the point that they become public enemies. Spiderman also faces unpopularity after a while. How will Musk react when everyone turns on him?

He's even worse off because he has a number of other ventures which benefit from his iconoclastic image. But if he becomes the unpopular dictator of Twitter, that may adversely affect those other ventures. For instance, if he does deals with Russia and China to seal off their Twitter spheres and crack down on anti-government tweets, and unleashes a free-for-all for rightwing extremists in the US, he'll alienate pro-democracy libertarians and leftwingers. I'd guess that most of the demand for Teslas would come from that that part of the political spectrum. I'd imagine Trumpists would consider electric vehicles as a betrayal of the MAGA commitment to fossil fuels. Teslas would be on the nose and those buyers would seek out cars made by other manufacturers.

He's bought a white elephant, methinks.
Title: Re: Musk
Post by: LP on April 27, 2022, 05:06:39 pm
No they don't.

Your Tesla will not come with a spare tire/tyre, nor does it come with run flat tires/tyres, so if you get a puncture you are potentially stuck. Tesla offer a service where they will tow you up to 50 miles and possibly bring you a replacement wheel if you're near a service centre, but this has a couple of problems.
March 2022
Actually in Australia it's 80km from the nearest service centre, which is basically wherever a Supercharger centre is, I'm always cautious reading search results, they often give you the US or Euro sites by default.

Also, not every region gets the same tyres, that's even the case for normal cars as tyres have to comply with local regulations. It also depends on where the car was made, which factory in which region.

Anyway it's obviously limited, but electric vehicles aren't meant to driven to the Kimberley, that Supercheap Solar Charger ain't going to help much! Bad luck if you shred a tyre on the Nullarbor, but then why would you drive a Tesla to Perth anyway you have no Superchargers and normal recharging costs you hours and hours in time every few hundred kilometres!
(https://tesla-cdn.thron.com/delivery/public/image/tesla/d41ef959-c39f-4bef-9d99-620b0e406402/bvlatuR/std/2880x1800/SC-Map-AU-NZ-D)
I've mates with some pretty fancy cars, none of them come with spares or even have a place to carry one, but I doubt they care about that! It would be like the Pratt's not buying a mansion because it didn't come with a hammer!

I suppose the Tesla logic is related to how often people get serious sudden flat tyres versus a slow leak, and the cost of carrying that extra weight related to the energy cost. The math probably works out way in favour of carrying no spare versus the Tyre MTBF.

I suspect someone like Hyzon will setup a ferry service so that Tesla drivers can have their cars transported by the dozen to Perth using hydrogen fuelled trucks, and instead of driving the Tesla owner can catch a cheap biofueled Jetstar flight to Perth so they can retain their green credentials on arrival. But who the feck wants to go to Perth now, most are trying to get out!
Title: Re: Musk
Post by: capcom on April 27, 2022, 05:42:26 pm
And as I've said repeatedly, EVs are totally unsuitable for Australia.  But that genius Shorten thought they'd be great. 

EDIT - They DON'T have spare tyres /wheels, regardless of sales point, Australia or anywhere else.  But you can buy one for $600 !!!