Carlton Supporters Club

Around The Grounds => The Sports Desk => Topic started by: Mav on July 07, 2022, 05:45:59 pm

Title: Kyrgios
Post by: Mav on July 07, 2022, 05:45:59 pm
Now he’s probably into the Wimbledon final (as Rafa is struggling physically and might not even play), what do we think of him?

The assault charge laid in Canberra this week clouds the sporting issues. His ex-girlfriend says the timing had nothing to do with her and that’s almost certainly right. But why couldn’t the cop who laid it have waited a week to do so? Maybe s/he’d been lazy and all the coverage from Wimbledon reminded him/her that s/he needed to do his/her job. Anyway, it has to be put to one side as we don’t know what’s alleged other than it involves grabbing. The incident occurred when Kyrgios moved on to his present girlfriend. Many scenarios can be imagined but there’s no point in getting ahead of the facts. The seriousness of the alleged behaviour is unknown as is the strength of the allegation. Let’s leave it there.

The quality of Kyrgios’ tennis can’t be doubted. His service is a nightmare for his opponent as he doesn’t have any physical tells to help the opponent anticipate where it’s going and Kyrgios doesn’t have set strategies that can be decoded. Add that to his big serving on both 1st and 2nd serve (while rarely double faulting) and the fact he serves as soon as he moves into his stance and Kyrgios can rip through a service game without giving his opponent any time to think.

He’s also the opposite of a grinder. He likes to play every shot in the book during every match, from drop shots to underarm serves to tweeners and more. On the other hand, Djokovic is just a wall whose specialty is getting back every shot his opponent plays and getting back into optimal position to play the next. He’s brilliant, no doubt, and charging the net against him isn’t usually going to help, but he’s not spectacular and creative in the way he grinds down his opponents. Djokovic is Boycott to Kyrgios’ Gilchrist.

Then we come down to sportsmanship. I’m more old school when it comes to how tennis players behave. I prefer Rafter and Federer to Hewitt and McEnroe. A few years back, I went off Kyrgios for that reason. But I must say that I have few problems with how he’s behaved this tournament. I base much of that opinion on my assumption about his motivation for his outbursts. I assume his outbursts are not confected with a view to putting off his opponent and “working the ref”. He seems to react with genuine emotion. By contrast, I think McEnroe never really lost his temper. He just acted like he did. And his temper tantrums tended to coincide with times when he needed to change momentum.

Many of Kyrgios’ celebrated outbursts have been self-destructive. He has often given away matches as a result of losing concentration and has even tanked in anger. If I were his opponent, I’d love to see him engaging in unproductive arguments with the chair umpire or spectators. Unlike in McEnroe’s day, there’s not even much benefit in intimidating the chair umpire as video reviews mean the opponent can erase umpiring mistakes.

His outbursts don’t have the visceral edge employed by other players behaving at their worst. Hewitt insinuated a black umpire favoured James Blake because he’s black and Serena threatened to shove a ball down a lineswoman’s throat. McEnroe’s “bald eagle” taunts were nothing more than schoolyard bullying. Compared to those efforts, Kyrgios’ slams have been pretty tame. If I’d been the lineswoman who Kyrgios branded a snitch, I would have had trouble keeping a straight face. It was almost comedic. Yes, he also attacked her by questioning the eyesight of 90 year old linespeople and that’s ageist and a sweeping generalisation but it’s hardly outrageous. His opponent in that opening round, Paul Jubb, is British and the home crowd tried to put Kyrgios off, allegedly using racist taunts. He lashed the crowd and that threw Jubb off his game but I doubt that was Kyrgios’ intention.

Then you come to how he treats other players. His last 2 opponents have behaved impeccably and Kyrgios has not made any attempt to unsettle them by attacking them. On the other hand, Tsitsipas lit the fuse by whacking a spare ball into the crowd, leading Kyrgios to demand he be defaulted. He had a point - imagine what would have happened if it had been Kyrgios who behaved in that fashion. Then Tsitsipas tried to whack balls at Kyrgios. The moral of the story is that Kyrgios won’t go after a player who respects the rules and the courtesies of the game, but he won’t hesitate to challenge those who do. Let’s not forget that Tsitsipas isn’t without blemish when it comes to gamesmanship either. Andy Murray lashed him repeatedly in one match where Tsitsipas repeatedly used toilet breaks and medical timeouts to break Murray’s momentum. One of the toilet breaks was 8 minutes long. Murray openly accused Tsitsipas of being a cheat and demanded the chair umpire take action.

That makes the forthcoming match against Rafa explosive, if Rafa doesn’t default. Rafa tests the rules by taking every second of the time allowed to serve if not more. This is the polar opposite of Kyrgios. Time limits were introduced because of Djokovic and Nadal, amongst others, but chair umpires seem to be unwilling to crack down on them. That will probably also happen when Kyrgios is serving as Kyrgios serves as soon as he walks to the baseline. The receiver is expected to play to the pace of the server but Nadal needs to go through his routine of picking at his clothes and racquet and it’s almost guaranteed that he’ll demand Kyrgios give him time to do that before he serves. It’s easy to predict that Kyrgios will go off at both Nadal and the chair umpire. And Kyrgios is like a dog with a bone - he won’t let up. This then ticks off Nadal who reacts badly to what he regards as disrespect from other players. There was an incredible spectacle in one of Nadal’s earlier matches when he summoned his opponent to the net to tell him off for grunting and various other sins when his opponent had momentum behind him (and it wasn’t lost on most that Nadal is probably the gruntiest player on the male tour). He managed to wrest the momentum and win the game and apologised for his behaviour at the post-match presser. It’s a match made in hell.
Title: Re: Kyrgios
Post by: madbluboy on July 07, 2022, 06:15:32 pm
Nadal is telling the whole world his body is broken but his results don't reflect that.

Kygrios has the tools to beat Nadal, the shorter points suit Nick too. I wouldn't bet against Rafa though.
Title: Re: Kyrgios
Post by: Gointocarlton on July 07, 2022, 06:17:23 pm
Nadal is telling the whole world his body is broken but his results don't reflect that.

Kygrios has the tools to beat Nadal, the shorter points suit Nick too. I wouldn't bet against Rafa though.
I hope Nick wins the tournament.
Title: Re: Kyrgios
Post by: madbluboy on July 07, 2022, 06:39:59 pm
I did chuckle when Nick said he doesn't go to people's workplaces and abuse them about an hour after he was abusing a lines woman.
Title: Re: Kyrgios
Post by: Mav on July 07, 2022, 07:10:07 pm
Yep, he has a certain obliviousness about him😁

IIRC, linespeople are volunteers who do it for the honour of being involved. I’d imagine they wish they hadn’t when they pull a Kyrgios match! At least the central umpires are well paid. Maybe they should impose 50m penalties for dissent.

EDIT: Looks like the lines umpires earn as much as £1500 per match at Wimbledon, according to Google. And probably there’s hazard pay In Kyrgios matches!
Title: Re: Kyrgios
Post by: Gointocarlton on July 07, 2022, 07:56:25 pm
I think if he was disciplined enough to have had a decent coach when he was young and stuck with them and listened to them, he would have been a multiple grand slam winner by now. He seems to be maturing a little at 27 but it might be too late.
I have always enjoyed watching him play, I like the fact he is different. I don't don't like the brain explosions, that stems from a lack of mentoring I reckon.
Title: Re: Kyrgios
Post by: Thryleon on July 07, 2022, 09:01:45 pm
The media (and Aussie public) will turn on kyrgios the second he loses.

Title: Re: Kyrgios
Post by: Gointocarlton on July 07, 2022, 09:54:04 pm
The media (and Aussie public) will turn on kyrgios the second he loses.


100% (except me). I laugh at the Pat Cash comments on Kyrgios, the guy is a dead set red neck. I bloke I went to school with trained with the Davis cup squad back in the day, he was of Greek decent. He reckoned Cash was was a shocker.
Title: Re: Kyrgios
Post by: LP on July 07, 2022, 10:03:35 pm
The media (and Aussie public) will turn on kyrgios the second he loses.
If and when it happens Kyrgios brought it on himself, every bit as much as Goodes, Tomic or Mundine.

The Australian public never forget someone being a knob.

Kyrgios is a wasted talent, I quite like watching him play, I don't get the hypocrisy from the media especially when it's someone like McEnroe lecturing about his behaviour. The media egg Kyrgios on and he obliges, but that is his stupidity showing through.

I thought is was disgraceful by the media when Tomljanovic was asked, by inference, if she had experiences of domestic violence during her relationship with Kyrgios. But that's the world as it stands, the media are just bloggers turned mercenary.
Title: Re: Kyrgios
Post by: Micky0 on July 07, 2022, 11:29:32 pm
Tennis players being petulant crapheads is not rare.

Pat Cash has a bloody hide saying crap about anyone, he was hardly a poster child of good behaviour. I remember Todd Woodbridge also being petulant, Lleyton got in strife a lot, Rafa cheats by time wasting, Djoker is a dickhead, Federer has shown petulance in the later years of his career, Tsitispas
As said previously has been unsportsmanlike on many occasion, and on and on.

Do I like the way Krygios behaves at times - absolutely not. But he does put on a show and I think behind the tennis brat facade is a good bloke - hearing him commentate at times, he was fantastic - much like Lleyton.

Pat Rafter was one out of the box, loved the way he played and behaved. But his type is rare.

So hope Krygios wins Wimbledon, would love it if he beat Djoker in the final actually 👏🏽
Title: Re: Kyrgios
Post by: DJC on July 07, 2022, 11:57:33 pm
Several years ago I decided that I couldn't support Tomic or Kyrgios and wouldn't watch their matches.  Since then, Nick's behaviour has improved dramatically, albeit with the odd meltdown.  He also has to deal with a lot of crap from spectators, the media and some past players.

He may never win a popularity contest but I hope he wins a grand slam tournament or two before his time is up.  This Wimbeldon could be his opportunity and I hope he grabs it.
Title: Re: Kyrgios
Post by: Gointocarlton on July 08, 2022, 06:23:34 am
Kyrgios is well spoken, well mannered off the court (for the most part) and does a lot of work with kids and charities.
Tomic I wouldn't piss on if he was on fire, dumb as a box of rocks and proof the apple doesn't fall far from the tree. If he couldn't hold a tennis racket he would have starved to death by now.
Nick is through the to the final thanks to a bit of good luck and I hope he wins it. Ill be up watching.
Title: Re: Kyrgios
Post by: Gointocarlton on July 08, 2022, 06:29:43 am
If and when it happens Kyrgios brought it on himself, every bit as much as Goodes, Tomic or Mundine.

The Australian public never forget someone being a knob.

Kyrgios is a wasted talent, I quite like watching him play, I don't get the hypocrisy from the media especially when it's someone like McEnroe lecturing about his behaviour. The media egg Kyrgios on and he obliges, but that is his stupidity showing through.

I thought is was disgraceful by the media when Tomljanovic was asked, by inference, if she had experiences of domestic violence during her relationship with Kyrgios. But that's the world as it stands, the media are just bloggers turned mercenary.
The media a parasites and one of the lowest forms of life, their relentless pursuit of the kid has been shameful. As I have said before, they are like vultures on the side of the road waiting for the next bit of road kill. But vultures have ethics, journos on the other hand push the animal onto the road into the on coming  traffic to ensure they get their meal. And people just lap it up and join the pile on instead of celebrating and getting behind Aussie talent. Pathetic.
Title: Re: Kyrgios
Post by: LP on July 08, 2022, 07:58:24 am
So hope Krygios wins Wimbledon, would love it if he beat Djoker in the final actually 👏🏽
About 80% of the planet is hoping the same, the rest are COVID deniers!
Title: Re: Kyrgios
Post by: madbluboy on July 08, 2022, 08:56:36 am
I'm going for Novak after we screwed him over.
Title: Re: Kyrgios
Post by: Gointocarlton on July 08, 2022, 08:59:51 am
I'm going for Novak after we screwed him over.
;D  ;D  ;D
Title: Re: Kyrgios
Post by: LP on July 08, 2022, 09:33:04 am
I'm going for Novak after we screwed him over.
Like I said, 80%
Title: Re: Kyrgios
Post by: Micky0 on July 08, 2022, 09:54:30 am
Would love the headline - Djoker was bounced out of Australia and bounced out of Wimbledon by an Aussie! Go Nick!
Title: Re: Kyrgios
Post by: madbluboy on July 08, 2022, 10:06:19 am
Like I said, 80%

You also said the 20% are covid deniers.
Title: Re: Kyrgios
Post by: madbluboy on July 08, 2022, 10:07:37 am
Would love the headline - Djoker was bounced out of Australia and bounced out of Wimbledon by an Aussie! Go Nick!

Until he has a dummy spit and loses. Then he's not a true Aussie.
Title: Re: Kyrgios
Post by: dodge on July 08, 2022, 11:51:28 am
Fed was certainly no angel early days either - petulant spoilt brat.

There is no one that plays tennis like Kyrgios.  I don't think he knows what shot he is going to play next, so what hope the opponent.  Someone mentioned his quick service games - they can go for less than a minute - puts a lot of pressure on the other side of the net if they feel like they are serving more.

Not sure there are many players that will throw away a set because they're confident of winning the next one.

As to his behaviour.  Is it genuine or tactical on the court?  A bit of both, I reckon - sometimes he needs an outburst to get going.  I remember Todd Woodbridge (or some other battle Aussie) playing McEnroe at Wimbledon and Todd called McEnroe out for an early outburst.  Made no difference to the result, but the psychological games were gone.

One thing about Nick though is that he is pretty confident about where he stands in tennis and is happy with it.  He doesn't love the game enough to try and win multiple tournaments, but doesn't seem to care either.
Title: Re: Kyrgios
Post by: LP on July 08, 2022, 12:09:38 pm
Would love the headline - Djoker was bounced out of Australia and bounced out of Wimbledon by an Aussie! Go Nick!
iirc, Kyrgios was quite sympathetic to Djoker during the vaccination scandal.
Title: Re: Kyrgios
Post by: LP on July 08, 2022, 12:11:34 pm
Until he has a dummy spit and loses.
Until???

In the early days there wasn't much difference between Tomic and Kyrgios, but Kyrgios started to show some maturity when Tomic didn't!

I'm expecting Tomic to be on social media any day now claiming he was better, it's a form of gamblers lament, if only ............ !
Title: Re: Kyrgios
Post by: Mav on July 08, 2022, 12:32:59 pm
As to his behaviour.  Is it genuine or tactical on the court?  A bit of both, I reckon - sometimes he needs an outburst to get going.  I remember Todd Woodbridge (or some other battle Aussie) playing McEnroe at Wimbledon and Todd called McEnroe out for an early outburst.  Made no difference to the result, but the psychological games were gone.
John Fitzgerald?
Title: Re: Kyrgios
Post by: kruddler on July 08, 2022, 12:37:50 pm
All this talk about Petulant tennis players, aussie ones at that, and no mention of Lleyton Hewitt? Cmon!
Title: Re: Kyrgios
Post by: dodge on July 08, 2022, 12:48:55 pm
I think you're right, Mav - seemed a bit early for Todd.
Title: Re: Kyrgios
Post by: Gointocarlton on July 08, 2022, 12:54:11 pm
Tennis players being petulant crapheads is not rare.

Pat Cash has a bloody hide saying crap about anyone, he was hardly a poster child of good behaviour. I remember Todd Woodbridge also being petulant, Lleyton got in strife a lot, Rafa cheats by time wasting, Djoker is a dickhead, Federer has shown petulance in the later years of his career, Tsitispas
As said previously has been unsportsmanlike on many occasion, and on and on.

Do I like the way Krygios behaves at times - absolutely not. But he does put on a show and I think behind the tennis brat facade is a good bloke - hearing him commentate at times, he was fantastic - much like Lleyton.

Pat Rafter was one out of the box, loved the way he played and behaved. But his type is rare.

So hope Krygios wins Wimbledon, would love it if he beat Djoker in the final actually 👏🏽
For me Cash was the ultimate spoilt entitled flog of Aussie tennis. Never warmed to him because of what I knew about him.
Title: Re: Kyrgios
Post by: Mav on July 08, 2022, 01:03:20 pm
The funny thing is Netflix is following Kyrgios around Wimbledon for a fly-on-the-wall doco.

Ordinarily, that would create some concern that Kyrgios might act up for the cameras. We’re well aware that producers of “reality”  shows try to create drama. So Gene Simmons doesn’t like flying … how about we get his kids to give him a joy flight in a helicopter as a birthday present? But maybe the producers would be going the other way with Kyrgios as no doubt they already have enough craziness in the can. I can just imagine them putting a book in Kyrgios’ hand and asking him to sit on the couch as if he’s reading it. Or maybe they want to take him to the local park so they can get some footage of him feeding the ducks 😂
Title: Re: Kyrgios
Post by: LP on July 08, 2022, 01:05:40 pm
To get the the very top you have to have a degree of arrogance.

In fact it's trained into our AFL players to think of themselves in glowing terms so that they enter games with a victorious and dominant mindset.

It stands out in solo sports, it take a rare breed to take it to a new level before it to stands out in team sports, like Dangerflog!

If tennis want to make an issue about players being flogs, they should go back and watch the early career of Roger Federer, he made McEnroe and Connors look conservative!
Title: Re: Kyrgios
Post by: Mav on July 08, 2022, 01:22:14 pm
There were some extenuating circumstances there, though. He was coached as a young tacker by an Australian, Peter Carter (?). Carter became a father figure for Federer. Unfortunately, Carter died in a car accident and young Roger didn’t cope well in the aftermath. Maybe this version of events owes a lot to my frail memory or to some myth-making, but the way he matured gives a lot of credence to it.

Agassi was also a tearaway as a young guy. He confessed in his autobiography to faking a note from his mum to explain away an adverse drug test. He also didn’t like playing tennis originally and did so only because of family pressure (IIRC, his father was a prominent sportsman in Iran - maybe a weightlifter at the Olympics?). He ruffled feathers at Wimbledon with his fashion choices and wore a mullet wig in the French Open against Bjorn Borg to hide his encroaching baldness (which he said was a bit of a handicap for him in that match). His career nosedived but then he turned it around and became a statesman of the sport.

It’s best to have a short memory when assessing tennis players. If they mature, forget about early missteps.
Title: Re: Kyrgios
Post by: LP on July 08, 2022, 01:28:40 pm
True, but there is always an extenuating circumstance offered as an excuse, even for Kyrgios and Tomic, but it won't save them!

Life being tough or feeling persecuted isn't a license to be a C@#$!
Title: Re: Kyrgios
Post by: Mantis on July 09, 2022, 12:54:08 am
Kyrgios could be up against Norrie. Australia vs GBR in the final.
Title: Re: Kyrgios
Post by: Mav on July 09, 2022, 01:09:48 am
Djokovic needs a 10 minute toilet break right now …
Title: Re: Kyrgios
Post by: Gointocarlton on July 09, 2022, 08:05:22 am
True, but there is always an extenuating circumstance offered as an excuse, even for Kyrgios and Tomic, but it won't save them!

Life being tough or feeling persecuted isn't a license to be a C@#$!
Kyrgios doesn't come across as a kent to me, Tomic does, a dumb one at that.
Title: Re: Kyrgios
Post by: LP on July 09, 2022, 11:17:19 am
Kyrgios doesn't come across as a kent to me,
He might not be 24x7, but he has his moments!

Perhaps the major difference is that we all have moments at times, but most people remain a bit humble and apologise for indiscretions, this seems to be a feature commonly lacking in many professional sports people. They seem to have taken the positivity high confidence mindset thing a bit too far to become "never wrong"!
Title: Re: Kyrgios
Post by: Mav on July 09, 2022, 12:07:15 pm
Your insinuation that Kyrgios has never apologised is wrong.
Title: Re: Kyrgios
Post by: Gointocarlton on July 09, 2022, 04:59:45 pm
He might not be 24x7, but he has his moments!

Perhaps the major difference is that we all have moments at times, but most people remain a bit humble and apologise for indiscretions, this seems to be a feature commonly lacking in many professional sports people. They seem to have taken the positivity high confidence mindset thing a bit too far to become "never wrong"!
Again, I disagree but that's ok. I reckon he has admitted many times that he is far from perfect. But he also says he won't pretend to be some one who he isn't (what you see is what you get). I do however agree with his comments around the lack of support from past Aussie players. In this country, we are happy to give armed robbers, drug dealers, rapists and pedos a fair go and a second chance, but young sports people who's crime is acting like flogs from time to time are persona non grata for life.
Title: Re: Kyrgios
Post by: DJC on July 09, 2022, 05:04:17 pm
Again, I disagree but that's ok. I reckon he has admitted many times that he is far from perfect. But he also says he won't pretend to be some one who he isn't (what you see is what you get). I do however agree with his comments around the lack of support from past Aussie players. In this country, we are happy to give armed robbers, drug dealers, rapists and pedos a fair go and a second chance, but young sports people who's crime is acting like flogs from time to time are persona non grata for life.

Yes, it's poor form for past players not to support Nick.  I guess quite a few are just a little jealous that he has made it this far.

It's going to be a big ask but, if anyone can beat Djoker, it's Nick.
Title: Re: Kyrgios
Post by: Gointocarlton on July 09, 2022, 05:08:36 pm
Yes, it's poor form for past players not to support Nick.  I guess quite a few are just a little jealous that he has made it this far.

It's going to be a big ask but, if anyone can beat Djoker, it's Nick.
Djoker was very average last night from all reports, said he is worried about playing Nick. Hopefully the fresher Nick wins.
Title: Re: Kyrgios
Post by: Mantis on July 09, 2022, 05:49:36 pm
I watched the game Djokovic vs Norrie and Djokovic was very slow to start and both struggled to hold their service games early in the first set. They both missed simple shots throughout the entire match. Djokovic had moments of brilliance and moments of complete poor form. His match against Kyrgios will be a toss of the coin as a result. It could go either way. The player that has the better service game accuracy with their first serve will win the match. My stomach feeling is it is 55/45% in favour of the Serb. He has had more experience in hard battles and has played more tennis at Wimbledon. However nothing is certain but taxes and death. So toss a coin to take a guess yourselves.
Title: Re: Kyrgios
Post by: Mav on July 09, 2022, 05:56:57 pm
Novak tried to overpower Norrie in the 1st set but then took the pace off the ball and challenged Norrie to generate his own pace. Norrie couldn’t. As the commentators noted, Norrie has lots of topspin on the forehand but a very flat stroke on the backhand. Neither is ideal when it comes to blasting the ball past a human wall like Novak. The rope-a-dope strategy won’t work against Nick.
Title: Re: Kyrgios
Post by: Gointocarlton on July 09, 2022, 06:19:48 pm
 I also never realised Djoker has never taken a set off Kyrgios.
Title: Re: Kyrgios
Post by: townsendcalling on July 10, 2022, 02:36:09 am
Djokovic was not convincing against a 115 mph server in Norrie, I think he'll find dealing with 125+ mph very difficult. It is going to be pretty warm and Djokovic doesn't like excessive heat. Kyrgios might have his moments and regret some past actions but what he does with kids and his NK Foundation, how he supports his mates ( great article in todays Age from his ex agent) and how he single-handedly motivated the tennis world to donate millions to the bushfire appeal a few years ago, is undeniable. He is providing an aging sport with a bit of 21st century piazzas! Last January, he and Kokkinakis made doubles tennis the hottest ticket in town (besides Barty) and produced an atmosphere that got a whole new generation of tennis fans queuing up to get a seat. There is not one tournament director in the world who would deny Kyrgios a wild card entry to their tournament......and make no mistake, the AELTC here at Wimbledon are delighted he has made the final!! 
Title: Re: Kyrgios
Post by: PaulP on July 10, 2022, 08:52:10 am
No way Kyrgios deserves to win Wimbledon, or any other Slam. He’s spent his whole career as the consummate unprofessional, disrespected his opponents, officials, fans, the media, the game and the institution of tennis, and ultimately himself. There are plenty of lesser players who take their careers more seriously, merely to eke out an existence on the lower tours, for less money and in worse conditions. He’s been given the keys to the kingdom in terms of talent, and carries on like something from Ali G central casting. Hopefully the tennis Gods have some good sense and a more merit based approach, and won’t be entrusting their most precious jewel to this serial underachiever and major league goofball.

I see no reason why immaturity, indifference, petulance and unprofessionalism should be rewarded, even if such reward comes from a compromised tournament, with several top players banned / injured, and no points on offer.

The fact that he is supposedly a super loyal friend and also Humanitarian of the Year is irrelevant in this context. Djokovic, Federer, Nadal and others also give time and money to charity. 

If he was from somewhere else, he would be as disliked as Djokovic, and nobody on here would give him the time of day.
Title: Re: Kyrgios
Post by: Mav on July 10, 2022, 11:13:47 am
That’s an odd perspective. I thought the player who deserves to win Wimbledon should be the one who wins all his matches there this year. Now, that player might not deserve to hold the ATP’s World No. 1 ranking as that requires consistency and professional attitudes to training and rehab as well as a lot of hard work, but that’s quite another thing.

Ironically, Djokovic is coached by Goran Ivanisevic. Goran broke Australian hearts by beating Pat Rafter in the Wimbledon final in 2001. He was ranked 126 in the world at the time and didn’t qualify for direct entry to the tournament: he needed a wildcard to enter. Of course, he was unseeded as Nick is this year. He was known for his big serve, attacking style and was known for on-court tantrums and the volatility of his performance. He was once defaulted from a match when he smashed all his racquets. I’m guessing he’ll be seeing a younger version of himself playing his current charge. And if Nick wins, he’d be the last person on earth who would say Nick didn’t deserve the title.
Title: Re: Kyrgios
Post by: Lappinlappystick on July 10, 2022, 11:28:09 am
Good to see Kryg in the final finally. Top line player who can beat anyone on his day. Will turn the flip if given a chance and could easily win this grand slam.

Much of his critics don’t realise his capacity to inflict the chupacabra on his opponents. We shall soon see.
Title: Re: Kyrgios
Post by: LP on July 10, 2022, 12:25:31 pm
That’s an odd perspective.
Yet, in the context of all the players who commit to tennis 24x7 and battle their guts out each year for mediocre results, PaulP's perspective is quite relevant in a limited scope.

From a morality / social justice perspective, it might also have some currency.

But then, if Djoker won that is probably a spit in the face of social justice as well! I'm sure he'll use a win to justify his political position on vaccines and unrestrained freedoms for the separatist elite.

If Tomic cruised into a Grand Slam got some lucky breaks and made the final is he also deserving of success?

btw., I quite like watching Tennis with Kyrgios, but I admit I'm not a big tennis fan. However, I watched a bit of the girls final last night and the absence of grunting was heart warming, I could actually watch it! I also watched tennis when the likes of McEnroe, Connors or Lendl were piling on the animosity towards officials and opponents. I liked the theatre, and I side with Kyrgios when you hear them criticising Kyrgios' behaviour.
Title: Re: Kyrgios
Post by: Mav on July 10, 2022, 01:31:23 pm
Effort doesn’t top talent no matter how much we’d like to see fairytale endings. Many of us might like to fantasise about being a popstar while we sing in the shower but the only way most of us would make money out of singing is if those who are forced to listen to it pay us to stop singing.

The funny thing is that we’ve already seen an example of a player who dominated female tennis through sheer hard work, but rather than seeing this as a heartwarming story of the universe being just for a change it was seen as a perversion of the sport. Caroline Wozniacki held the World No. 1 ranking for 71 weeks and was a decent player. But she was a defensive grinder who owed her stay at the top to her fitness and the WTA’s decision to incentivise players through the ranking system to enter as many tournaments as possible. While other players like Serena dominated the Slams, Wozniacki filled her boots with lesser titles. It wasn’t until 2018 that Wozniacki finally won her maiden and only Slam, the Aussie Open. There was much whinging during her reign as the World No. 1 that players who focussed on peak competition at the Slams weren’t recognised in the rankings when they were clearly the best players in the world.
Title: Re: Kyrgios
Post by: Gointocarlton on July 11, 2022, 07:10:07 am
After a flying start winning the first, Novak imposed his brilliance on Nick. Rallied in the 4th but the champ was too good. Well done to the young fella. Rest up and go again.
Title: Re: Kyrgios
Post by: LP on July 11, 2022, 07:57:40 am
Was a fantastic match, possibly the highest standard Wimbledon final I've ever watched, not that I've watch that many.

Djoker is just too good, he could barely reach some of those Kyrgios serves yet they still fell and Kyrgios feet. Kyrgios early was sublime, but if anything that just highlights how good you have to be to defeat Djoker.

As much as losing Nadal hurt the tournament, perhaps it's a good thing for tennis long term, Kyrgios might take some belief out of this and we'll have a new flavour on offer at the pointy end of tournaments.

PS; Kyrgios needs a coach, he could have won last night, but he retreated when he should have been on the attack. He needs someone to keep him on course tactically.
Title: Re: Kyrgios
Post by: Gointocarlton on July 11, 2022, 08:34:12 am
Was a fantastic match, possibly the highest standard Wimbledon final I've ever watched, not that I've watch that many.

Djoker is just too good, he could barely reach some of those Kyrgios serves yet they still fell and Kyrgios feet. Kyrgios early was sublime, but if anything that just highlights how good you have to be to defeat Djoker.

As much as losing Nadal hurt the tournament, perhaps it's a good thing for tennis long term, Kyrgios might take some belief out of this and we'll have a new flavour on offer at the pointy end of tournaments.

PS; Kyrgios needs a coach, he could have won last night, but he retreated when he should have been on the attack. He needs someone to keep him on course tactically.
There were a couple of gent wearing Yonnex caps at the back of his players box who I never seen, they looked like coaching/conditioning people. I think he knows what went wrong, he said in his presser he has been playing points over in his mind which he wished he could have again. That sounds more like execution to me than strategy. He has spoken glowingly of his team this tournament about he finally has people around him who helping him be a better person and tennis player. I also havent seen his brother at many tournaments of late. Is something in that?
Title: Re: Kyrgios
Post by: LP on July 11, 2022, 11:01:26 am
I also havent seen his brother at many tournaments of late. Is something in that?
Don't think so, they said in the broadcast that his brother had mentioned that lately the old Nick was back and it was like Nick had managed to turn back the clock to get away from the dark stuff and back to being a fun loving teenager again.

Also in the broadcast they said he's been doing all this without a coach, not sure if the meant just lately or for an extended period of time.
Title: Re: Kyrgios
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on July 11, 2022, 11:56:48 am
Kyrgios doesnt do much for me as an individual off the court and I am not a avid tennis watcher but he is good for the game in terms ofit needing a Villain to offset the good guys and create interest and entertainment much like McEnroe did.
No doubting his talent either as he has all the shots and some X factor too, the Djoker is probably the best player I have seen, he has been rubbished for his anti vax stance which will tarnish his reputation but imho is a better player than Federer or Nadal and the best of the modern era.
Title: Re: Kyrgios
Post by: DJC on July 11, 2022, 04:59:13 pm
Don't think so, they said in the broadcast that his brother had mentioned that lately the old Nick was back and it was like Nick had managed to turn back the clock to get away from the dark stuff and back to being a fun loving teenager again.

Also in the broadcast they said he's been doing all this without a coach, not sure if the meant just lately or for an extended period of time.

Kyrgios doesn't have a coach.  I heard him say recently that he's been playing tennis since he was seven and no-one knows his game as well as he does.  A half-decent coach could probably make a huge improvement to his tennis, provided that they didn't try to stifle his spotaneity.  It doesn't seem that it will happen though.
Title: Re: Kyrgios
Post by: Thryleon on July 11, 2022, 05:30:29 pm
In about 3 years he will monster the competition.

Hes going to do a Marat Safin.  All the talent is there and only towards the end will hr realise that he will have to work hard to stay relevant and ironically thats when he'll play his best most consistent tennis.

 
Title: Re: Kyrgios
Post by: Macca37 on July 11, 2022, 07:08:07 pm
In about 3 years he will monster the competition.

Hes going to do a Marat Safin.  All the talent is there and only towards the end will hr realise that he will have to work hard to stay relevant and ironically thats when he'll play his best most consistent tennis.

 

I hope you are wrong.  What little interest I had in supporting this 27-year-old man/child disappeared last night when once again he publicly humiliated his family and close friends because he was losing the match and didn't have the guts to own his own inadequacies.

People point to McEnroe as an excuse for the constant bad behaviour of Kyrgios.  McEnroe, labelled a brat, at least kept his remarks directed towards umpires and linespeople.
Title: Re: Kyrgios
Post by: PaulP on July 11, 2022, 07:52:59 pm
In about 3 years he will monster the competition.

Hes going to do a Marat Safin.  All the talent is there and only towards the end will hr realise that he will have to work hard to stay relevant and ironically thats when he'll play his best most consistent tennis.

I would quibble about using Safin as an example (I think his best period was from about 20-25 years old), and I’m not quite so confident that Kyrgios’ late career surge will be a fait accompli, but I am hopeful that he will turn it around. For someone of his immense talent, his record to date is embarrassing.

The signs were better at Wimbledon. The first tournament I can recall where he seemed genuinely engaged for the entire two weeks. He was a worthy opponent to Djokovic, took it right up to him and really looked like he wanted to win. Of course, we had the usual nonsense. But he has a lot of work to do IMO. His most urgent task is to cut the self sabotage out of his game, in all its guises. I’d also have a look at his box - I’ve got no idea who sits there - if I were to hazard a guess, I’d say they are a mix of family, friends and other assorted hangers on. Not the type that will challenge him, pull him into line and have tough conversations IMO.

If anyone has set themselves up for late career success, it’s him. His style is to play fast points, based on a sensational serve and terrific ground strokes. Fast points means short games, short matches, minimal running. I also don’t think he’s had any injuries of note. In terms of coaching and general back-of-house setup, he gives himself a freedom to do pretty much as he pleases. Nobody tells him what to do, so he should not be mentally worn down by years of grind and “over” coaching. In both physical and mental aspects, he should be, comparatively speaking, as fresh as a daisy.

But he needs to change. Whether he undergoes some kind of self induced inner transformation, or he gets people around that make him change, it has to happen, otherwise we will have an entire career of someone who contributes more to his losses than his opponents. After the final, Goran Ivanisevic said they knew Kyrgios was vulnerable when he ripped into his entourage. And all it takes for a player like Djokovic to beat you is the slightest sniff.

I can’t stand seeing a bloke waste so much talent.
Title: Re: Kyrgios
Post by: dodge on July 11, 2022, 10:26:05 pm
Fascinating and engaging GF.  Djokovic was able to adjust his game when he needed to.  Kyrgios' outbursts were strange - 'You're not cheering/supporting me loudly enough' and aren't going to win anyone over.   It seems to be a cry for help - interesting in his post game interview where he gave credit to the mental strength of Roger, Raf and Novak with what they go through on a tournament by tournament basis.

Some people have that mental strength to cope, others don't.  This will be the decider for Kyrgios - having had a taste, does he want more, if so, is he going to get the help he needs. 
Title: Re: Kyrgios
Post by: Mav on July 11, 2022, 10:36:03 pm
What about Ash Barty? Retired at 26. Surely she left a lot of titles on the table. Isn’t she wasting her talents? If you’re lucky enough to be gifted sporting power, surely you can choose what you’ll do with it. Not everyone is an Ivan Lendl or one of the big 3 who wants to get every last drop out of his career. Kyrgios won $2m despite losing at Wimbledon. He doesn’t have to share that much with his “team” as his team is small. Just that 1 match should set him up financially if he has his head screwed on right (i.e. he isn’t another Tomic or Philippoussis). With endorsements and appearance money at whatever events he wishes to enter, he’ll build on that regardless of results in the near term.

Being a current sporting star opens a lot of doors. You can hang with NBA stars or get drink cards and VIP status at top nightclubs. Once you retire, being a former star doesn’t carry anywhere near the cachet. I can understand someone like Kyrgios wanting to take advantage of his celebrity while it exists. It’s easy to say, “He should just give a 100% effort for 5, 10, or 20 years and he can enjoy life when he retires”. But it will be a very different life when he does retire.

So, if sporting professionals want to retire early or use their prowess to live like a rock star, let them do it.
Title: Re: Kyrgios
Post by: Mantis on July 12, 2022, 03:10:56 am
The one person in your life that can completely destroy you and your life, is also the same person that could completely change your life, and allow you to achieve everything you desire. I won’t tell you his or her name. It is a different person for every individual. Fact is that you can see them when every you choose. You can touch them. You can hear them. Your best friend and worst enemy at the same time. Wake from your sleep. Go to the bathroom and look in the mirror. Looking back at you is your best friend and biggest nightmare. This is the person that can change your life.

Everything begins with you. The good, the bad and the ugly. Who you choose to guide you is up to the person in that mirror. Who you choose to listen to was looking back at you in the mirror. Once they convince you to make a change, you can bring all the guidance you need in life and look for a better you. You can build a team of helpers around you. You can eat better, train better, learn better. Experience a way to battle through negativity.

However, if the person looking at you in the mirror thinks you are already perfect. Then that level of perfection is all you will ever achieve. If that person tells you to wake up and make a change in your life, then you better listen and actually hear it. I do it time and time again. I don’t think I am completely insane. I might be wrong. I am not scared of that man in the mirror. I know he will always be honest with me. He will always tell me the truth. Why? I have learned to listen to him. More importantly I actually choose to hear him. Then I act accordingly. He is a brutal prick at times, and more often than not. He is my best friend and knows me better than anyone else. He doesn’t have the answers. He just tells me to search for help. Look for a better way. Do something different. Without doing something different, you are trapped to a point where you achieve the same results in life and never see what is most important in life. Learning. Doing something different with failure is actually a success. A reason to not repeat the same pattern. You don’t have to copy those that have had success to have the same success. However if you don’t try to emulate something you don’t do, how will you ever know if what others do will work for you.

Kyrgios does his own thing. He doesn’t look in the mirror. He thinks he is beautiful. He feels his world is fine the way it is. He won’t speak the truth to himself in his mirror. His short falls. Ask himself for help. Why should he. He has enough money in earnings from tennis to keep him happy. Does he have enough speed on the court to win matches? Yes. Does he have a great service game to win matches? Yes. Does he have powerful stroke play to win matches? Yes. Does he have clever X-factor play to be tricky and hard to beat? Yes. Does he have the mental focus to do what is needed when times get tough? No comment. He needs to ask his friend in the mirror. The mirror is never a liar to you. What you see is you. Listen and be honest. Hear the words. Then act.

Why do you think Novak takes toilet breaks? He needs to talk to his best friend and biggest enemy. It actually works. Far better when you are drunk. My recommendation is not to punch on with that guy or girl. She or he will win and you will lose.

Great game by Nick. High performance. Smashed the aces at almost double his opponent. Great creativity with ground strokes. Great power on stroke play. Lacking some experience on the big stage. Has beaten his opponent before twice in their last two matches in straight sets. Never had his service game broken before by Novak. Won his first set in the final, looking all the goods. Confidence sky high and ready to kill it from there on. Unfortunately he lost in the end. A very good match overall. Kyrgios lost to himself. Not to his opponent. The mental focus was off a few points. Something Nadal and Djokovic rarely experience. Probably due to more experience in finals and better support with the teams that prepare them for tournaments. Maybe they have looked in the mirror more often and asked themselves the brutal questions that need to be asked. Maybe they listen better to things they don’t want to hear. Maybe they actually hear those words. Maybe they have better coaches. F#@k that. They are old. How the hell do they do it so well for so long? Is it experience? I think it is learning weaknesses the opponent has shown in their general play. I think it is finding a weakness in a match that they are competing in. I think it is on being able to focus from point to point. Forget the last point and focus on the next. Keep it simple. One moment at a time. Don’t get overwhelmed by the current situation. Baby steps.

Either way, well done Nick. Great result. Well done Novak. You are a true champion.
Title: Re: Kyrgios
Post by: LP on July 12, 2022, 08:01:41 am
This will be the decider for Kyrgios - having had a taste, does he want more, if so, is he going to get the help he needs.
Yep, has always been the issue for the lad, and probably the main reason he doesn't actually have a coach.

I heard him talk in an interview once that if he had the choice he would have rather be a basketballer, it suggestive that he plays tennis because he's good at it not because he really loves it. The basketballer is the person in the mirror @Mantis refers to.

If you are burning with desire to get to the top of the tree, you listen to everyone, filter out the good and bad and use bits and pieces of what you hear accordingly to make yourself better. No matter what you might have read or heard from retrospectives it's impossible to do alone. There is nobody who gets to the top of the tree in spite of others.
Title: Re: Kyrgios
Post by: madbluboy on July 12, 2022, 11:33:40 am
If he can't handle a few words from a drunk girl at Wimbledon how would he cope with the NBA trash talk?
Title: Re: Kyrgios
Post by: LP on July 12, 2022, 12:52:12 pm
If he can't handle a few words from a drunk girl at Wimbledon how would he cope with the NBA trash talk?
It's just his dream.

btw., On the court in a team sport is very different from playing tennis, I suspect just like his greater success playing doubles with Kokkinakis he might do very well in a team sport. So does he look like the type that can't handle opponents talking smack?

But it's a dream, perhaps a bit like the risk of Barty switching and hoping to be a world beater in golf, sure it's not impossible but it's walking away from what you do best to follow a dream.
Title: Re: Kyrgios
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on July 12, 2022, 04:15:24 pm
If he can't handle a few words from a drunk girl at Wimbledon how would he cope with the NBA trash talk?
I think he would shut up and cop it because 90% of the other players would be bigger than him and he would be sorted out very quickly. You dont get to choose your coach in basketball either and I dont see Nick being very coach-able or team orientated.
He needs to stick to Tennis and enjoy beating up the likes of Dominic Perrottet in exhibition matches where he can live the dream of being a basketball legend in his own mind...
Title: Re: Kyrgios
Post by: Professer E on July 12, 2022, 08:47:23 pm
How much coin do you get for coming second at Wimbledon?
Title: Re: Kyrgios
Post by: Mav on July 12, 2022, 09:01:51 pm
2 million
Title: Re: Kyrgios
Post by: PaulP on July 12, 2022, 09:05:05 pm
How much coin do you get for coming second at Wimbledon?


For the men's final, Kyrgios earned £1,050,000, roughly AUD $1.8M on current rates.
Title: Re: Kyrgios
Post by: Professer E on July 13, 2022, 07:28:48 am
So,  going by his past comments I guess that means he thinks he's 1.8 million times more important than us little people
Title: Re: Kyrgios
Post by: LP on July 13, 2022, 08:11:47 am
I read somewhere that the players get up to $250K just for making the 3rd or 4th round, but I appreciate they have costs so it's not as great a windfall as some think. I'm sure the authorities cover some of the costs for lower ranked players, otherwise it would be like golf with players sleeping in cars.

I've stayed at Wimbledon/Wimbledon Hill a number of times, usually short term rentals there is some terrific quality accommodation around that area when the tennis is not on, just a train hop from the nearby Wimbledon station to just about anywhere in London. But not when the tennis is on as the rates go up 3000%! Just a small door front property, I mean a terrace flat over a shop, might call for and get $4000/night for that week or so! A regular I rent from tells me the tournament and it's lead up week/month or so will pay his flats mortgage for the whole year.