Start without me. I'll be a awhile.
Just gutted. Panic merchants. Terrible decision making. Woeful kicking. Too too horrible.
I really didn't think we'd make it. No shame though. Had a red hot crack under the worst injury crisis of the competition.
That said. I thought Williams, McG, Cerra were solid. Hard to fathom that Pies were at the bottom last year 😕
Just gutted. Panic merchants. Terrible decision making. Woeful kicking. Too too horrible.
Q1 nerves
Q2 & 3 we came to play
Q4 we flop 😔
They had a lesson last week, why didn't they learn??!!!!! No good be a decent footballer if you are an idiot!!!
No one will ever tell me that two consecutive “blocking” decisions did not manufacture that outcome.
In the first, Quainor pushed Silvagni into a Collingwood teammate. Cost us a shot dead in front.
Ball goes down the other end - good honest pack marking contest, somehow a free kick to Collingwood who goal.
The momentum swung and that was that.
Shattered.
As close as you can get, without getting there.
I believe i heard that no team has even been in finals for the whole year, except for the final round
Carlton: *hold my beer*
We really need to improve our F50 play and goalkicking accuracy. That's where we lost this imho.
Got to use this as motivation for the pre season. I always thought it would be the next couple of years.
Our time will come. Get rid of some dead wood. Need some resilient players.
WE ARE ON THE RIGHT TRACK.....
Shattered.
As close as you can get, without getting there.
I believe i heard that no team has even been in finals for the whole year, except for the final round
Carlton: *hold my beer*
Last team to do that was Carlton 1977.
So at the end if the day we're good enough to beat 4 of the top 8 teams and still miss. Losses to GC, St Kilda and Adelaide come back to bite us hard.
We really need to improve our F50 play and goalkicking accuracy. That's where we lost this imho.
Precisely. We won the contest including i50's but couldn't finish. Frustrating.
If someone had told us that we'd finish 9th, missing out on finals by 0.6%, after for the entire season never having a healthy list -- horrendous injury list -- at the beginning of the season, we'd have taken it. However, after an 8-2 start and spending the entire season in the 8 until the last game, and losing our last 4 games it is just about impossible to be pleased with finishing 9th. Again, a second half of the season drop off.
Pass mark for 2023 is contesting finals, and making a statement in those finals... along with winning games we should win. Key words for 2023... healthy list, efficiency up forward.
I can’t even believe what I witnessed.
For such a hardworking and electric third quarter to such a crap limp effort in the fourth quarter,
Just what the hell - ran out of legs? Didn’t get going til 2nd quarter!
Just such a waste and throw out the fitness guys please, our guys can barely play 2 quarters let alone 4
#2023believe
Further to Mr Cripps, half dead from probably fractured ribs or something from that collision with JSOS, sorry that you are constantly putting your entire self into every game, never stopping, bulldozing thru, sorry they couldn’t hold their bloody nerve for 4 mins to win the game!!
Also apparently now Dusty’s fend off is illegal. Go figure.
Goaless qtr = game over
$%#= €£}^#$% $%%£₩ $#@$ $^÷/%
In the end 0.6 percentage points
The Pies have turned that Lazarus routine into an art form. They've done it to plenty of teams, not just us. Games that are decided by less than a goal can always go either way.
There's a body of work on display this season that shows us exactly what is working, and what isn't.
Two minutes to go, we have it at half forward. All we needed was to spot up a short target...shot on goal, minute used up.
At least keep possession - we give the ball up too easily.
We beat 4 top 8 sides this year and if we weren't such chokers it would have been 6.
In the end 0.6 percentage points
That's the 3 goals we allowed Brisbane in the last 2 min after getting back to within 15pts. Everything they do they do it wrong.
For all the ‘last Minute losses will keep us in good stead for future’ amounted to crap.
Don’t get me wrong, we did much better than expected this season so that’s a win.
But to have limp efforts against Saints and Adelaide and GC was just awful.
Then to lose twice to Collingwood by a kick and Melbourne with 13 seconds to go - just screwing bites. There’s no if’s or buts, it’s unfair.
I'm gutted, but the sun will come up and I'll enjoy my summer water skiing.
But @$$%%#$%%@@***!! that hurts.
Our club has found new ways to hurt us supporters, like sticking the knife in and twisting it.
We have TWO Coleman medallists that need to realise every shot on goal is sacred, not a time to lairise about with a freakish shot from a SET SHOT.
We need to make use of our chances, be more efficient, not a scatter gun approach.
25 f'n points up in the last. WTF?
First things first, make sure everybody is fit for a killer summer.
The Magpies have a good group of older, wiser more experienced heads that handled the clutch moments better.
The Pies have turned that Lazarus routine into an art form.
They have plenty of leg speed and run, the main thing we lack.
That non-free kick for Walsh in the last 4 seconds of the first blues v pies match cost us a finals spot
They have plenty of leg speed and run, the main thing we lack.
I think that's part of it. Our good friend Mr pew2 has been banging on about leg speed since forever.
I also think that we are probably about 3 or 4 good players away from being a top 4 team. There's still a certain scrubbiness with our ball use. That could be time / experience, or it could be personnel.
With a healthier list, we will play finals under this coaching group. I'm sure of that.
We've seen the boys step up under a ridiculous injury carnage. For the most part the next man up kept us in it. At times requiring versatility and learning on the hop. Those experiences will hold us well going forward IMO. As will the narrow losses.
As disappointing as it is, this was not our year. Eventually carrying 10 injuries through most of the year catches up.
Bring on 2023 with durability because the rest is there.
Go Blues.
Completely out coached.
Q1 nerves
Q2 & 3 we came to play
Q4 we flop 😔
Reality is this group lacks mental hardness and panics and second guesses when the heat is applied. Would be kicked out of finals against any other team in there and not ready for it as hard as that sounds.
Q3 is a classic example. We had the momentum and they dropped the pressure off and we looked like world beaters when we get it our way. Then as we all knew they were going to play risky footy in the last 10 minutes and when that wave of pressure was applied we crumbled and folded like a pack of cards.
All we needed was a Bruest, Gunston, Elliott type that is cool and clutch when it matters and we play finals, As good as Charlie and Harry are they are not clutch forwards. We gave out all but just don't have players who we can count on when it the really big moments.
They have plenty of leg speed and run, the main thing we lack.
They got their running game going, we hacked it forward in hope.
They got their running game going, we hacked it forward in hope.
Dominated clearances.
Sucked at delivering inside 50.
Its a simple game sometimes, and we failed at kicking to our forwards advantage and couldn't hit the scoreboard enough as a result.
Two minutes to go, we have it at half forward. All we needed was to spot up a short target...shot on goal, minute used up.
At least keep possession - we give the ball up too easily.
YES!! exactly right. I walked out the room at that point as i knew we would be giving the goal up as we cant think straight when it matters. This group is mentally weak and not sure if coaching can fix it. Reckon a player like Hewitt would have been very handy the last 2 weeks
Can we have Princes Park smoked or what ever it is to break the curse. Similar to what the filth did many years ago.
It's gotta be something like this for all our bad luck.
Finish ninth. Start the trading process. Start all surgeries. Start working on a build up to next season. This season as a fail. Sure it was an improvement on 2021. Still a fail in the end. Looking at it any other way is accepting less than playing finals football. We were top 4 with a reasonable gap from lower sides. Injuries make a difference but so does the space between the ears. I never saw us winning in the last round and was only amazed that we were in a place at the start of the last quarter to take the rewards. Season fail. Improvement on 2021 yes. However season fail. Start trading and drafting in those that need to compliment the current squad. Improve on what we have. Cut the passengers.
YES!! exactly right. I walked out the room at that point as i knew we would be giving the goal up as we cant think straight when it matters. This group is mentally weak and not sure if coaching can fix it. Reckon a player like Hewitt would have been very handy the last 2 weeks
So true. Besides it being in Saads hands, and maybe Weiters, there is no one I am confident in to have composure. Not Cripps Not Doch, and no one else either.
Two minutes to go, we have it at half forward. All we needed was to spot up a short target...shot on goal, minute used up.
At least keep possession - we give the ball up too easily.
we learnt zero from last week, unfathomable.
Priority 1 NRL tackiling coach
Priority 2 Mind coach
Big lesson from the last 2 weeks (and a few other weeks as well).
If you are only running at 99%, its not good enough.
Put the foot on the throat, and keep it there until the final siren.
Give the opposition half a chance and you will lose.
Last 2 weeks show that we can match it with the best, but still lack experience in big games. Hopefully, we don't need anymore learning moments and take the hint from here.
#blues for 2023!
we learnt zero from last week, unfathomable.
Charlie just had to spot a short target (and there was one), or even Durd's had to kick it long to just get a score
I suspect that learning how to handle clutch moments or the closing stages of tight matches takes longer than 1 week.
DON'T KNOW ABOUT EVERYBODY ELSE BUT I'M SICK OF LEARNING I WANT WINNING >:D
Small forwards been a bit messy all year and cost us twice in a row in big time games - think Motlop is the best small forward we have and probably need another.
Anyway three key mids were missing but Crippa, Doc and Setters had the better of that battle.
Boys got stage fright first half and froze - need experience and hopefully this game is in that direction. But the mistakes and cold feet last few minutes has been unbelievable past fortnight. Lost to a team that came 17th last year.
Continuity with players on the park and we are top four.
“No one will ever tell me that two consecutive “blocking” decisions did not manufacture that outcome.
In the first, Quainor pushed Silvagni into a Collingwood teammate. Cost us a shot dead in front.
Ball goes down the other end - good honest pack marking contest, somehow a free kick to Collingwood who goal.”
Exactly. Fell apart after that little sequence. Not an excuse but was a trigger for the poor choices that followed.
The momentum swung and that was that.
Stephen King would have been proud of that one.
If you wanted a nightmare, horror story to scare young Carlton kiddies it would pretty much follow that plot.
The match lived up to all the hype.
It will now go down in Magpie folklore...not so much ours. :(
Big lesson from the last 2 weeks (and a few other weeks as well).
If you are only running at 99%, its not good enough.
Put the foot on the throat, and keep it there until the final siren.
Give the opposition half a chance and you will lose.
Last 2 weeks show that we can match it with the best, but still lack experience in big games. Hopefully, we don't need anymore learning moments and take the hint from here.
#blues for 2023!
Sad ending to a season. If this one doesn’t hurt enough we will never learn what it means when people say what ever it takes. Get the results. Get the job done. We can’t be a serious threat until we have this mentality. Collingwood is a good side. Unfortunately almost every side above is is almost a non win contest. That doesn’t create a serious threat and every side knows if you turn on the heat and pressure, you will have every opportunity to beat us. Head strong yet? No. Mentally up to the challenge? No. Work rate up to standard for four quarters? No. Not quite there yet. Will 2023 be any different? Time will tell. We played our last 11 games to beat Essendon, Fremantle, West Coast and GWS. Not a great finish to a season. Injuries yes. Lack of real ticker, yes again. Time to really think about next season. Serious thinking. I would expect some changes. Voss was very good. He needs to get more mental toughness. More desperate efforts. More delivery on the scoreboard. I have faith. Just have no interest in the finals series. None what so ever.
The Magpies have a good group of older, wiser more experienced heads that handled the clutch moments better.
And remember they played in a GF IN 2018 and prelim in 2019 and made the semis in 2020. Sure they were 17th last year but have a very experienced core that have played in many big games and we have SFA in that regard except for Williams and McGovern who have played finals campaigns at other clubs.
I'm now reduced to anticipating the demise of the Pies.
Priority 1 NRL tackiling coach
Priority 2 Mind coach
Spot on. There is a serious 'between the lugholes' issue at our club. A 24 pt lead at 3/4 time should turn into a 30pt+ win.
Jekyll & Hyde.
Choking.
Undisciplined forward play.
Horribly inconsistent in games. (today, 21/8) 2 goalless qtrs, 8 gl qtr... WTF.
Culture is still fractured and brittle.
Are we, unconsciously, afraid to be successful? Are we too comfortable at PP? Too much palsy without depth? Why is our ruthlessness conditional, staccato, occasional?
Same old, same old... sustained pressure and we fold (panic/make mistakes... composure, discipline go out the window).
And remember they played in a GF IN 2018 and prelim in 2019 and made the semis in 2020. Sure they were 17th last year but have a very experienced core that have played in many big games and we have SFA in that regard except for Williams and McGovern who have played finals campaigns at other clubs.
17th last year - Nick Daicoc
All we needed was one goal to stem the tide.
We choked.
And remember they played in a GF IN 2018 and prelim in 2019 and made the semis in 2020. Sure they were 17th last year but have a very experienced core that have played in many big games and we have SFA in that regard except for Williams and McGovern who have played finals campaigns at other clubs.
Yes, I agree.
Don't think many changes are required just need continuity without this chopping and changing all year. We got a very good list would welcome Karl Amon and Bobby Hill with open arms.
In some ways, the Pies are a hard mob to pin down because they have an unusual profile. They don't win many of the key statistical indicators that coaches tend to rate, yet they just find a way to win.
I suspect that learning how to handle clutch moments or the closing stages of tight matches takes longer than 1 week.
I'm sure they have worked that scenario during preseason and during the season at training. If they haven't, that's criminal. Having been exposed to it last week should have triggered all the learnings from the training sessions and should have made them better prepared this week. The scenario arose, and every one at the ground around me could see it coming, and we failed again. This isn't rocket science, its composure and decision making. The older heads like Doc, Cripps, Weitering, Williams had to play a role in the instruction process.
They failed.
I have been dreading this round since the bye and it played exactly how I thought it would, these two weeks and dropping out of the 8 in rnd 23 will hurt them above the shoulders big time. Will they get over it? Some will, some won't.
Real disappointing and we fell away after a promising start to the season, too many unreliable players especially under pressure with the ball. Sometimes you have to tip your lid to a team who can comeback like they can and say we can learn something from how they keep persisting. We seem to have more ball, more entries but players like Maynard and Moore just kept spoiling and denying us good entries and passage to our key forwards.
Got smashed in the ruck but still did well at clearances and stoppages thanks to Cripps who was a real warrior but missed the edge he provides down forward because he didnt have Hewitt and Kennedy to take up the slack if he moved away from the middle.
No Walsh made that situation worse along with Saad looking very sore and he probably shouldnt have played......thought Motlop gave us a lift and showed why he probably has more upside in a Kossie Pickett type of way than either Owies or Durdin.
The Jack ruck experiment is over IMO, when the opposition have two genuine rucks we have to play similar and I thought Jack was also well beaten by Maynard when he played forward as well so I think we havent done him any favors in terms of continuity and he needs to concentrate on his forward craft.
MacRae made some interesting moves late with Maynard, DeGoey in the middle who lifted the Pies and those two old blokes Pendlebury and Sidebottom continue to be handy and seem to have haunted us for a while, I'll be glad when both retire.
Thought Cerra was very good, Young held up well and Docherty was his usual reliable self.
LOB was ok, Cottrell had another shocker on J Daicos who helped kickstart the Pies 1st quarter and we didnt learn much from our previous game vs the Pies in that regard.
Elliott and Ginnivan didnt get much of ball but when they did it they really punished us and a real class small defender to help Saad is a requirement we cant ignore. Zac Williams doesnt do it for me, Stocker lacks experience and Martin is finished as a senior player imo. McGovern was ok and I thought Marchbank played ok but the goals Johnson kicked really hurt us especially that zinger from the boundary line...
Some work for Austin to do in trade week and the draft and Voss needs to tune his coaching skills and give us some MacRae type belief and set plays for those last quarter vital moments.
All we needed was one goal to stem the tide.
We choked.
We needed to find a way to score the first goal in the last but instead, we found new ways to not score it. Then we need to find a way to stop them and we found new ways to screw that up also. A diabolical two weeks really, yes we most definately choked.
My unblemished record of not seeing a win live in donkeys years remains intact. Watching these last two weeks live has been as excruciating as I have ever witnessed.
Just have to get Fev to PP to teach our forwards drop punts, this indulgent 'round the corner stuff just cannot be trusted. And when you can't trust your key forwards when shooting at goal... time to act.
Don't think many changes are required just need continuity without this chopping and changing all year. We got a very good list would welcome Karl Amon and Bobby Hill with open arms.
Think we need better contested players for the big moments...Amon and Hill dont do it for me and if we pay Amon 500k a year for 4-5 years we would be insane and learned nothing from recruiting disasters of recent years.
In some ways, the Pies are a hard mob to pin down because they have an unusual profile. They don't win many of the key statistical indicators that coaches tend to rate, yet they just find a way to win.
You could reword that with end being "yet we just find a way to lose".
Think we need better contested players for the big moments...Amon and Hill dont do it for me and if we pay Amon 500k a year for 4-5 years we would be insane and learned nothing from recruiting disasters of recent years.
We had them out injured and this group needs experience and good decision making imo. Amon and Hill for me.
You could reword that with end being "yet we just find a way to lose".
If you look at the goals they kicked ie Ginnivan, Elliott and Johnson plus the McCreery out of his ArSe one from the boundary and then look at their possession tally it comes down to taking your opportunities and being efficient. You look down the other end and we just squandered entries and missed shots at goal, that round the corner BS from Charlie has its place but sometimes you just have to have the confidence to go back line up straight and nail them and thats what they did.
Forget the Walsh injury, it is what it is. The lack of composure, yep needs work. What I cannot understand for the life of me is why we:
1. Didn't go with TDK and Pitto v Cameron and Cox
2. Why we picked Williams in such a crucial game after having missed so much footy.
If you look at the goals they kicked ie Ginnivan, Elliott and Johnson plus the McCreery out of his ArSe one from the boundary and then look at their possession tally it comes down to taking your opportunities and being efficient. You look down the other end and we just squandered entries and missed shots at goal, that round the corner BS from Charlie has its place but sometimes you just have the confidence to go back line up straight and nail them and thats what they did.
Yep
Forget the Walsh injury, it is what it is. The lack of composure, yep needs work. What I cannot understand for the life of me is why we:
1. Didn't go with TDK and Pitto v Cameron and Cox
2. Why we picked Williams in such a crucial game after having missed so much footy.
Think Walsh out and Saad sore made them do that, Williams is a front runner but not a player Id want in the heat of the battle and along with Martin I'd be looking to live without though I realise we are stuck with Williams thanks to that ridiculous contract.
Fully agree on TDK.....
Forget the Walsh injury, it is what it is. The lack of composure, yep needs work. What I cannot understand for the life of me is why we:
1. Didn't go with TDK and Pitto v Cameron and Cox
2. Why we picked Williams in such a crucial game after having missed so much footy.
Walsh , Hewett and Kennedy missing isn't helping considering they trained with Cerra and Cripps all pre season
TDK wouldn't have made much of a difference I don't think - just another inexperienced player and thought Williams was pretty good. Had more contested possession than uncontested with 83% efficiency - that's a solid day in the office.
LOB 83% time on ground with zero tackles. The only other players that had zero tackles for both teams were forwards.
17 outside possessions with 68% efficiency <---- thats not good enough. He wasn't the cause though - Fisher had another inconsistent game, Durdin is extremely inconsistent and needs a very big pre season.
Vossy's presser was pretty good and on point IMO. Summary of the first minute :
- almost all numbers went our way
- really strong brand after q time
- most of the game our way
- last q they were able to hit the scoreboard and we were inefficient.
Voss made a point in his press conference about individual growth which is quite relevant.
I can't think of a player who played today who is on the down-slope slippery slide.
It's not an aging group and each and every one of them 'can' be better next season.
Some will be better because they won't be impacted by injury
Some will be better just though natural growth and maturity.
Sure, we won't get 100% improvement, there will be setbacks for some
But overall it should be a better side.
Walsh , Hewett and Kennedy missing isn't helping considering they trained with Cerra and Cripps all pre season
TDK wouldn't have made much of a difference I don't think - just another inexperienced player and thought Williams was pretty good. Had more contested possession than uncontested with 83% efficiency - that's a solid day in the office.
LOB 83% time on ground with zero tackles. The only other players that had zero tackles for both teams were forwards.
17 outside possessions with 68% efficiency <---- thats not good enough. He wasn't the cause though - Fisher had another inconsistent game, Durdin is extremely inconsistent and needs a very big pre season.
I thought Williams was extremely ordinary watching him live. Played on Ginnivan, pushed and shoved the kid when the ball was being bounced, then got torched by him when the ball came down. I'd swap the young kid for Williams in a heartbeat. Cannot stand the bloke.
I thought Williams was extremely ordinary watching him live. Played on Ginnivan, pushed and shoved the kid when the ball was being bounced, then got torched by him when the ball came down. I'd swap the young kid for Williams in a heartbeat. Cannot stand the bloke.
Williams and Martin were passengers IMO...dont care how many possies Williams gets he cant let his man kick goals, Martin just doesnt do enough for a player of his skill level and contract money.
I thought Williams was extremely ordinary watching him live. Played on Ginnivan, pushed and shoved the kid when the ball was being bounced, then got torched by him when the ball came down. I'd swap the young kid for Williams in a heartbeat. Cannot stand the bloke.
Williams is a hard at it player with sublime skills - he's been disappointing but had a good game. Ginnivan just did his job as a small forward - other than Motlop the rest are for the tip.
Voss made a point in his press conference about individual growth which is quite relevant.
I can't think of a player who played today who is on the down-slope slippery slide.
It's not an aging group and each and every one of them 'can' be better next season.
Some will be better because they won't be impacted by injury
Some will be better just though natural growth and maturity.
Sure, we won't get 100% improvement, there will be setbacks for some
But overall it should be a better side.
Yep, found myself quite buoyed by Vossie's media conference. Wasn't shy with identifying issues and inadequacies and the 2nd half year drop off and the need to make further changes... that some will like, and others may not like. Right man at the helm. Also didn't hold back on how cheats.com.au treated Rutten.
Williams is a hard at it player with sublime skills - he's been disappointing but had a good game. Ginnivan just did his job as a small forward - other than Motlop the rest are for the tip.
Wow! Just wow! So much to unpack there but Im not going to bother.
We were atrocious in the first half, sensational in the third quarter and then tried to "hold the match" in the last instead of continuing to play all out attacking footy. This played into the Pie hands, they had every reason to go for broke that point.
Just a reminder, we didn't kick a goal in the first or last quarters, that's zero goals for a whole half of a match !!!
The ruck is a big issue IMO, I don't rate Pittonet at all whilst De Koning still has a fair way to go.
The three small forward set-up (Owies, Durdin & Motlop) just doesn't work hence the need for a mid-sized forward to provide an additional avenue to goal alongside McKay & Curnow.
Curnow needs to eradicate the brain-fade stupid decisions from his game, they are just too costly when he does them (i.e. there were two howlers in todays game against the Pies).
I did say in another thread that we would drop the final three games of the season and I was right (certainly not gloating, just pointing out the fact). However, it is imperative that this burns us hard as a club and we come out in 2023 even stronger than we were this year.
It has been an improvement, there is no doubt about it but we are our own worst enemy, screw the tempo footy palava, lets just go for broke from the first siren to the last, when we do we carve them all up.
Williams and Martin were passengers IMO...dont care how many possies Williams gets he cant let his man kick goals, Martin just doesnt do enough for a player of his skill level and contract money.
Martin has to be shown the door, far too erratic in his output to be considered a reliable player for us.
I didn't mind Williams today, he took the game on and set up many forward thrusts when we were looking like falling away.
Yep, found myself quite buoyed by Vossie's media conference. Wasn't shy with identifying issues and inadequacies and the 2nd half year drop off and the need to make further changes... that some will like, and others may not like. Right man at the helm. Also didn't hold back on how cheats.com.au treated Rutten.
Yes. Impressive in the circumstances.
Also interesting to hear how they'd increased loads this year and will do so again for next year. Might just be the edge we need to deliver consistently across q', games, pre-post bye. Of course it may also be a bridge too far for those with certain injury woes.
We were atrocious in the first half, sensational in the third quarter and then tried to "hold the match" in the last instead of continuing to play all out attacking footy. This played into the Pie hands, they had every reason to go for broke that point.
Just a reminder, we didn't kick a goal in the first or last quarters, that's zero goals for a whole half of a match !!!
The ruck is a big issue IMO, I don't rate Pittonet at all whilst De Koning still has a fair way to go.
The three small forward set-up (Owies, Durdin & Motlop) just doesn't work hence the need for a mid-sized forward to provide an additional avenue to goal alongside McKay & Curnow.
Curnow needs to eradicate the brain-fade stupid decisions from his game, they are just too costly when he does them (i.e. there were two howlers in todays game against the Pies).
I did say in another thread that we would drop the final three games of the season and I was right (certainly not gloating, just pointing out the fact). However, it is imperative that this burns us hard as a club and we come out in 2023 even stronger than we were this year.
It has been an improvement, there is no doubt about it but we are our own worst enemy, screw the tempo footy palava, lets just go for broke from the first siren to the last, when we do we carve them all up.
Yep - I'll be interested what Vossy will have in store for us. Three forward pockets that don't do much hasn't worked 100% agree. How many times were they outsized in marking contests? Too many to count - think Kemp should be a starter as a mid forward he moves around the ground well - played midfield in his junior years. Could be a sleeper for 23
From where I was sitting, curnow for a coleman medalist was the reason we lost. When we needed to get going he was nowhere.
One of his shots for goal with his crappy snap didn't even make the distance. Add 2 more set shots that were gettable, and in the last, 5 points up, marks at half forward and kicks long to nobody. We had about 4 mins on the clock, and all we needed was one solitary point which would have made it 2 kicks that the pies needed.
No, not good enough to kick a farken torp and play the percentages because our team is full of mental lightweights.
Collingwood took their foot off in the 3rd and the umpires gave us an armchair ride.
That was a game that could have been won, but wasn't because we are simply not good enough and don't give me the he was good he wasn't.
We don't have enough stand and deliver types when the heat is on.
You certainly need some luck in those tight games - Elliott is a class act, but that last shot, on the run from the left pocket (for a right footer) could have easily missed, and he would have been roasted for burning both Ginnivan (about 10m to his right) and Mihochek, who was close to the goal square.
Just watched Jobe Watson talk about how Dons are operating in silos. Calling the club "dysfunctional"
Won't take away today's disappointment but might give some a giggle😈
In the cold hard light of day when the dust settles, trying going back to preseason, or 12 months ago and rate our top 25 players out of 10 and redo it now. Docherty and Curnow were pure speculation, nothing more, Cottrell was not in anyone's top 22, O'Brien was nowhere, Young was 'break glass in emergency', Marchbank was miles away, Cripps was 'gone'......
We have shown significant improvement, players have a red hot crack and our fans just love to go to the football these days! Cookie, Vossy, Crippa we are looking in anticipation already!!
In the cold hard light of day when the dust settles, trying going back to preseason, or 12 months ago and rate our top 25 players out of 10 and redo it now. Docherty and Curnow were pure speculation, nothing more, Cottrell was not in anyone's top 22, O'Brien was nowhere, Young was 'break glass in emergency', Marchbank was miles away, Cripps was 'gone'......
We have shown significant improvement, players have a red hot crack and our fans just love to go to the football these days! Cookie, Vossy, Crippa we are looking in anticipation already!!
Measured assessment. I couldn't agree more. I'm keen to see what my ladder prediction was before the season started. If I made one that is 🤔
In the cold hard light of day when the dust settles, trying going back to preseason, or 12 months ago and rate our top 25 players out of 10 and redo it now. Docherty and Curnow were pure speculation, nothing more, Cottrell was not in anyone's top 22, O'Brien was nowhere, Young was 'break glass in emergency', Marchbank was miles away, Cripps was 'gone'......
We have shown significant improvement, players have a red hot crack and our fans just love to go to the football these days! Cookie, Vossy, Crippa we are looking in anticipation already!!
Thats the way I feel - the team has developed over the past 12 months. Understand some people want to blow up the club but the improvement has been good now we just need continuity with our players on the ground and not continuity on hospital beds.
In the cold hard light of day when the dust settles, trying going back to preseason, or 12 months ago and rate our top 25 players out of 10 and redo it now. Docherty and Curnow were pure speculation, nothing more, Cottrell was not in anyone's top 22, O'Brien was nowhere, Young was 'break glass in emergency', Marchbank was miles away, Cripps was 'gone'......
We have shown significant improvement, players have a red hot crack and our fans just love to go to the football these days! Cookie, Vossy, Crippa we are looking in anticipation already!!
Great post and I’d go further by saying that Hewitt, Saad, Durdin, Motlop and TDK all exceeded my limited expectations this year.
We do however need to urgently address our lack of durability - whilst Weitering was unlucky this year, we simply can’t continue to carry all of Marchbank, Williams, Martin, McGovern, Cunningham & Honey if they can’t get their bodies right. We may need to seriously consider trading out the injury prone for more durability, whilst also having a thorough look at Andrew Russell’s programme.
I would have preferred getting thumped today. The way this one ended was way more heart breaking.
In the cold hard light of day when the dust settles, trying going back to preseason, or 12 months ago and rate our top 25 players out of 10 and redo it now. Docherty and Curnow were pure speculation, nothing more, Cottrell was not in anyone's top 22, O'Brien was nowhere, Young was 'break glass in emergency', Marchbank was miles away, Cripps was 'gone'......
We have shown significant improvement, players have a red hot crack and our fans just love to go to the football these days! Cookie, Vossy, Crippa we are looking in anticipation already!!
Some improvement, yes. But the reality is that at the end of the season we still have the same problem we began with, and no obvious answer, namely, an inability to play four consistent quarters of football - and anything more than half a game seems beyond us.
It begs the question: which came first , the chicken or the egg? Is it the lack of football skills such as tackling , general field kicking and kicking for goal etc, causing the problem, or is it a team mental fragility on display every week which causes the players to wilt at the first sign of pressure which then translates to some or all of their football skills falling away and consequently losing close matches?
Too many of our small forwards, with the exception of Motlop because of the few matches he has played, disappear when Charlie and Big H are held, and under pressure they kick poorly, make stupid decisions, and seem to have made little or no improvement this year. I am thinking of Fisher, Owies and Durdin.
If there is no improvement from them or their replacements then we are not going to improve our position next year.
Another problem is Pittonet. In any top four side he would be considered a second string ruckman. He is at best able to break even with the opposition but is not good enough to give our mids consistent first use of the ball. He desperately needs assistance
Let's hope Voss is on top of these problems otherwise 2023 could be a repeat of this year.
Does anybody have a link to the Voss press conference?
The club is always mysteriously slow in following up on social media after a loss...
Ruck and medium forwards are 2 big deficiencies we have on our list.
If Goldy from north or Bruest or Gunston are gettable and not on big dollars I would seriously consider them for a few years. One of the hawthorn forwards would be a big advantage in tight games - we have no winners on our list. Not one. I reckon that very point was the reason today and last week we lost.
Does anybody have a link to the Voss press conference?
The club is always mysteriously slow in following up on social media after a loss...
https://www.afl.com.au/video/828631/full-post-match-r23-blues?videoId=828631&modal=true&type=video&publishFrom=1661072697001
Thank you!
That non-free kick for Walsh in the last 4 seconds of the first blues v pies match cost us a finals spot
It was the Adelaide game. They did not turn up!!
Very Professional from Voss in his presser, had clear goals of finals and didnt try and hide behind green shoots, bean shoots or anything else and was a bit annoyed he lost to his old mate MacRae. I think he will make some changes to the list, set some higher training standards and hopefully the list responds next year. Top 4 and sustained success are his major goals and thats how its has to be and to get that we need more consistent performers, like the way he didnt use injuries as an excuse and how he expects players to step up when asked and that has to be the Carlton way going forward.
Just have to get Fev to PP to teach our forwards drop punts, this indulgent 'round the corner stuff just cannot be trusted. And when you can't trust your key forwards when shooting at goal... time to act.
Not Fev for mine - he had a unique kicking action and I wouldn't trust him as a coach as he is too ill-disciplined.
In the cold hard light of day when the dust settles, trying going back to preseason, or 12 months ago and rate our top 25 players out of 10 and redo it now. Docherty and Curnow were pure speculation, nothing more, Cottrell was not in anyone's top 22, O'Brien was nowhere, Young was 'break glass in emergency', Marchbank was miles away, Cripps was 'gone'......
We have shown significant improvement, players have a red hot crack and our fans just love to go to the football these days! Cookie, Vossy, Crippa we are looking in anticipation already!!
Fully agree regarding the above-mentioned players but the biggest surprise for me was the midfield contributions of Setterfield in the past two matches - I haven't been a big fan due to his questionable kicking (in hope) but I have seen enough the past 2 games to think that he will be a player -
Time to review where the season failed. Training, conditioning, endurance, correct team selection, better team balance with culling and adding new players. Further developing players in the seconds. Adjusting the game plans. Mental hardness between the ears. Better pressure acts. Better leadership. Better selection of roles for every player. Chopping players we don’t need and things we don’t need to focus on. A fine tuning exercise that is so much work to make us become a true contender. Probably more work ahead to be genuine finals threat, than we had to be as a team to be close to the mix. I hope everyone in the club gets on the same page to make it happen. Silvagni and Cripps in the ruck? Stop that experiment. If TDK can’t back up Pits, then find another option. Start the search now. While there is time. Stop stretching the squad beyond their capabilities. Develop utility types, but don’t expect them to match up on the best week after week. The future is potentially great if the hard work is done in the next 5 months. Make it happen Cook. Make the right call to make it change.
Saad was obviously hurt last week in the Melbourne game.
Looked like it could be a groin.
Some of the actions must have hurt like hell yesterday.
But he kept on keeping on.
Just watched Jobe Watson talk about how Dons are operating in silos. Calling the club "dysfunctional"
Won't take away today's disappointment but might give some a giggle😈
He was very good the other night before their game, I liked his line in reference to Clarko or Hird "if you want a saviour, turn to religion because footy doesnt work like that".
Went on to say its a long, slow and hard process.
Saad was obviously hurt last week.
Looked like it could be a groin.
Some of the actions must have hurt like hell yesterday.
But he kept on keeping on.
Saad like all his team mates had a real dip the last few weeks, almost to a man they have lacked composure and therefore good decision making. I think they will learn more from the last 3 weeks than they did in the previous 20.
Saad like all his team mates had a real dip the last few weeks, almost to a man they have lacked composure and therefore good decision making. I think they will learn more from the last 3 weeks than they did in the previous 20.
The move of Docherty into the midfield no doubt threw an extra burden on to Saad.
That's where injuries are an excuse.
Covering a hole in one area by moving a vital part weakens the other area.
It's funny the number of people on Carlton social media who are feeling 'guttered' this morning.
Might be just coincidence but I'm getting my guttering done today as well. ;D
Should be guttered by this afternoon :))
Said it a few times this season, Goldstein. He can't have more than a year or two left and North will be rubbish for another three or four years.
12 months ago we didn't even look like we could find a coach. We were miles off finals. 12 months later, we miss finals by millimeters. 2 very cruel weeks in succession is hard to swallow.
Saad was quite obviously playing injured - he gave his all but you could see he had limited movement.
I think we have to critically look at the list and weed out blokes who can't be relied up to turn up, play four quarters or even get on the part. Consistent, acceptable output is what we need, not blokes that deliver once in a blue moon.
Saad was quite obviously playing injured - he gave his all but you could see he had limited movement.
Agree, should not have played, he seem to get one slight knock and was really sore afterwards. Collingwood to their credit were actually fairly sportsmanlike through the game and could have cleaned up some of our sore players but didn't.
Fully agree regarding the above-mentioned players but the biggest surprise for me was the midfield contributions of Setterfield in the past two matches - I haven't been a big fan due to his questionable kicking (in hope) but I have seen enough the past 2 games to think that he will be a player -
x2. Thought the same thing.
Not Fev for mine - he had a unique kicking action and I wouldn't trust him as a coach as he is too ill-disciplined.
I actually agree, emotion of the moment got to me!
On reflection we need to teach, Charles in particular... discernment. Learn when to take your time and use a drop punt. He has shown that he can launch a deadly drop punt from outside 50, so the ability is there. Again, and common with our group - above the shoulders... and inexperience.
I actually agree, emotion of the moment got to me!
On reflection we need to teach, Charles in particular... discernment. Learn when to take your time and use a drop punt. He has shown that he can launch a deadly drop punt from outside 50, so the ability is there. Again, and common with our group - above the shoulders... and inexperience.
Agree, needed to go back take his time and own the moment. This is the next step in his development to becoming the champion we all hope he can be.
It's funny the number of people on Carlton social media who are feeling 'guttered' this morning.
Might be just coincidence but I'm getting my guttering done today as well. ;D
Should be guttered by this afternoon :))
Maybe its because this game went up the spout?
You certainly need some luck in those tight games - Elliott is a class act, but that last shot, on the run from the left pocket (for a right footer) could have easily missed, and he would have been roasted for burning both Ginnivan (about 10m to his right) and Mihochek, who was close to the goal square.
The behind the goals vision of that is ugly. Weitering and co were just ball watching, no leadership.
Weitering didn't seem to 'recover' after his injury.
He did his job for the most part in later games but was a shadow of his early season form.
He seemed to be down on confidence and his attack on the ball wasn't the same.
Weitering didn't seem to 'recover' after his injury.
He did his job for the most part in later games but was a shadow of his early season form.
He seemed to be down on confidence and his attack on the ball wasn't the same.
Yes agree. It is hard to maintain the same form over the whole year. Everyone will have their ups and downs. Do remember him being much the same with his first shoulder injury in his first year.
The behind the goals vision of that is ugly. Weitering and co were just ball watching, no leadership.
Agree too easy, Elliott should never have had that space and you have to look at fitness if our blokes couldn't keep up with him and run out the game.
We got smashed on slingshot goals all year. As soon as it gets out the back, we are shot to pieces.
Voss needs to find some pace from somewhere. We are so slow.......
Not that it makes aby difference now but I just saw the 'blocking' free paid against JSOS, when Cripps took the mark 15m out. The ALF have got a real problem, that goal likely seals the game. He was pushed into the contest by his opponent, it is 100% an umpire error that has likely cost us a spot in the finals. Just a disaster.
Not that it makes aby difference now but I just saw the 'blocking' free paid against JSOS, when Cripps took the mark 15m out. The ALF have got a real problem, that goal likely seals the game. He was pushed into the contest by his opponent, it is 100% an umpire error that has likely cost us a spot in the finals. Just a disaster.
There were some craphouse calls that went against us BUT you’ve got all non Carlton supporters cheering the ‘greatest H&A game of all time’, no way there’ll be any scrutiny on the umpiring of it now.
I think we need to focus on the fact that all our moments added together, plus all our opponents' moments added together, are what make the season. If only we beat the Hawks in R3 by more than 1 measly point, we would have enough percentage to make 8th. If only this happened, if only that didn't happen etc. The season narrative is cumulative, and unfortunately for us, the accumulation of all those moments was basically death by a thousand cuts. I still think the season is a pass.
I actually agree, emotion of the moment got to me!
On reflection we need to teach, Charles in particular... discernment. Learn when to take your time and use a drop punt. He has shown that he can launch a deadly drop punt from outside 50, so the ability is there. Again, and common with our group - above the shoulders... and inexperience.
Taking time is a team thing, there was a 50m penalty where Pitto didnt take the full 50m, dished it off to Stocker running by I think who rushed a kick fwd that was intercepted. Take the full 50m, get yourself as deep as possible and then use the ball cleverly to spot up a fwd. Sometimes slow crafty play is better than run and gun. Composure.
HTF can a side go from utterly hopeless (17th) to top 4 in a year?
Gees it would be nice to snag a freebie gun or two as a FA/academy pick like a lot of other clubs seem to have done recently.
We got smashed on slingshot goals all year. As soon as it gets out the back, we are shot to pieces.
Voss needs to find some pace from somewhere. We are so slow.......
Yep getting slaughtered on the outside. Players without a defensive bone in their body and finding defensive pressure acts as unnatural. See ya.
Every time we have had a shot at making finals late in a season the last few years we have choked up the last qtr. 2020, under Teague, we were a real red hot chance. 4 games from the end we led at 3/4 time against the Pies and fell apart in the last qtr, 5 days later, 15pts up at 3/4 time against GWS and s hit our pants. We won the next game. If we won those other 2 we would have been game and percentage inside the 8 with 2 games to go. Come 2022 and that s hit still hasn't been sorted.
If we actually learn from this it could a real good thing going forward. Will we or will we be the same old Carlton? We have a reputation now for choking. Sides will always think they are in the game now against us.
Taking time is a team thing, there was a 50m penalty where Pitto didnt take the full 50m, dished it off to Stocker running by I think who rushed a kick fwd that was intercepted. Take the full 50m, get yourself as deep as possible and then use the ball cleverly to spot up a fwd. Sometimes slow crafty play is better than run and gun. Composure.
To the letter of the law it should have been 2 x 50m penalties to Pittonet as Cox impeded his progress towards the new mark.
I know full well it’s wasted energy to fixate on such sliding doors moments but I tear my hair out sometimes at non-decisions that are so confidently called by some umpires (I’m still trying to figure out who blocked whom which gifted them a goal in the last), yet other decisions are not interpreted consistently.
While we can all moan about free kicks that may or may have not been there, the simple fact of the matter is you should not lose games when you are 4 goals up at 3/4 time. Coughing up big leads has been our achilles heel all year
This is about psychology, not acts on the football field. It's like we sit back and admire the scoreboard, and then ease off the gas. Then, we get so frightened of failure that we suffer from 'deer in the headlights' syndrome and stop playing the brand of football that gets us in front in the first place. Apart from the 4 points lost yesterday, think of all the % we left on the table by letting huge leads evaporate. Port, Hawthorn, Dogs, Swans spring to mind.
We will never be there at the pointy end until we become ruthless and learn to stand on throats and not let them get back up.
If we play 2 quarters in each game like the third yesterday, we will win most matches. If we play three, we will be almost unbeatable. The psychology is to start each quarter with the mindset that scores are level, and the quarter must be won.
I dont know how to upload a photo, but to dot point how dumb our players are, I have been sent an image of Charlie curnow, ball in possession, half forward flank, with 2.11 on the clock. He has taken a mark, and he has a short kick on to Durdin who is free on the 50 metre line. Instead of kicking it to Durdin who would have been in range to have a ping and get a super important point, he kicked long to a vacant pocket to the advantage of Collingwood players who were able to clear it easily and go end to end.
This is the sort of stuff that as a fan drives you insane, because in range durdin could have taken a very important 30 seconds off the clock and made it a 1 kick game with 1.40 on the timer instead.
Saw that live.
Either the Collingwood players are just all smarter than ours or they are coached better.
Saw that live.
So did I, I'm so angry I couldn't even articulate it yesterday.
The move of Docherty into the midfield no doubt threw an extra burden on to Saad.
That's where injuries are an excuse.
Covering a hole in one area by moving a vital part weakens the other area.
Just a little (and I do mean a teeny weeny bit) more luck with injuries and the season would have gone different for us.
Kennedy Walsh Hewitt, 3 starting mids who impacted our first half of the season form dramatically and all sitting in the stands yesterday.
12 months ago we didn't even look like we could find a coach. We were miles off finals. 12 months later, we miss finals by millimeters. 2 very cruel weeks in succession is hard to swallow.
I'm with you. It's been one h#*l of a year.
Those multimeters translate effectively to one kick, one mark, and 15 seconds of composure. That's the difference between 8th and 9th this year. It's a blow we let the free-kick kings in for another go at it.
Weitering didn't seem to 'recover' after his injury.
He did his job for the most part in later games but was a shadow of his early season form.
He seemed to be down on confidence and his attack on the ball wasn't the same.
Just like his recovery after his initial shoulder injury. Which occurred when he slid in for a goal saving touch. Albeit very different circumstances.
I dont know how to upload a photo, but to dot point how dumb our players are, I have been sent an image of Charlie curnow, ball in possession, half forward flank, with 2.11 on the clock. He has taken a mark, and he has a short kick on to Durdin who is free on the 50 metre line. Instead of kicking it to Durdin who would have been in range to have a ping and get a super important point, he kicked long to a vacant pocket to the advantage of Collingwood players who were able to clear it easily and go end to end.
This is the sort of stuff that as a fan drives you insane, because in range durdin could have taken a very important 30 seconds off the clock and made it a 1 kick game with 1.40 on the timer instead.
As they said on "The First Crack" where were our extras behind the ball in that last 2 min. That set up was abominable. 2 more blokes then Ginnivan and Elliot don't get out the back, and Elliot doesn't score that goal. It's been an issue for years and nothing has been done. What are the leaders thinking?
First side since 1977 be in the top 8, top 5 back then, every week only to drop out last round. 1977 was us too. Only consolation back then is we won 3 of the next 5 flags after that.
So did I, I'm so angry I couldn't even articulate it yesterday.
It was my worst experience at the football ever. Surrounded by Collingwood fans in the AFL members. We were outnumbered 10-1.
Only consolation back then is we won 3 of the next 5 flags after that.
I would be okay with that.
Agree, needed to go back take his time and own the moment. This is the next step in his development to becoming the champion we all hope he can be.
I see him as a raw extremely talented excited kid. He'll pass that soon 🤞Perhaps when he's played 100 games, and a few more games with his fwd counterparts. Consistency is key.
HTF can a side go from utterly hopeless (17th) to top 4 in a year?
Gees it would be nice to snag a freebie gun or two as a FA/academy pick like a lot of other clubs seem to have done recently.
Not sure about 17 > 4. But top
8 > 17 = Nick Daicos.
Just put myself through the hell of watching the first quarter.
The vision of Williams under the ball and coughing up the first two goals means another trip to Harvey's for yet another remote.
HTF can a side go from utterly hopeless (17th) to top 4 in a year?
..................................
Their body of work over the last several years points to the fact that last season was a statistical aberration. As percy pointed out elsewhere, they've been around finals for a few years, without exactly setting the world on fire. Craig McRae has said in several pressers that never in their wildest dreams did they expect a positive season like this one. Sometimes you get lucky and sometimes even the experts don't know.
First side since 1977 be in the top 8, top 5 back then, every week only to drop out last round. 1977 was us too. Only consolation back then is we won 3 of the next 5 flags after that.
Only after Ian Stewart departed (due to a 'heart attack') 5 rounds into 1978.......
The loss we had to have!
(https://qmca.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/Paul-Keating.jpg)
The behind the goals vision of that is ugly. Weitering and co were just ball watching, no leadership.
No Plowman in both the Demons and Pies games.
The behind the goals vision of that is ugly. Weitering and co were just ball watching, no leadership.
In regards to which event?
This is the sort of stuff that as a fan drives you insane, because in range durdin could have taken a very important 30 seconds off the clock and made it a 1 kick game with 1.40 on the timer instead.
Not sure it was any worse than Durdin not hitting up BigH inside F50 when we were a point down. BigH was 10m from any opponent with the nearest enemy a small / medium, we just needed a point which BigH would do standing on his head from inside F50.
In regards to which event?
The match winner.
Not sure it was any worse than Durdin not hitting up BigH inside F50 when we were a point down. BigH was 10m from any opponent with the nearest enemy a small / medium, we just needed a point which BigH would do standing on his head from inside F50.
I saw that too.
Also in the first quarter no one would pass the ball to LOB. He was on his own a few times, they would look at him but ignore him as if by instruction.
I saw that too.
Also in the first quarter no one would pass the ball to LOB. He was on his own a few times, they would look at him but ignore him as if by instruction.
I noted the same, but when they ignored him they usually went more corridor…
Just put myself through the hell of watching the first quarter.
The vision of Williams under the ball and coughing up the first two goals means another trip to Harvey's for yet another remote.
We got lucky they were off target early, I couldn't watch it again...1 point and 0.6% away is torture.
So 2023 season now means we'll have more games vs mid third group of (pending finals results): Freo/Dogs, Lions/Tiggers, Aints, Power and GC. We just gotta keep improving, build that list, we should be entrenched into the top 8 firmly this time next year SURELY!
Tough way to end the season, but man what a game overall. After years of disappointment I'm able to extract myself from the want to yell at the screen and just enjoy the game for what it is. Also helps watching it with junior and playing with her toys during.
We now have 12 months to wait to see if we make the finals for the first time in a decade!!! It's not about the preseason or round 1. We simply must make finals in 2023 and make a serious dint in the finals series.
This could be a learning curve, this past month in particular. This could make us hungrier, or this could have been our opportunity, our test, our time, and we missed it.
You simply cannot just assume we will make the finals next year.
It's bloody infuriating, flopping like we did, basically being comfortable getting close. Like I have said for a decade, close enough is NOT good enough. Period.
I have kids now wanting to barrack for other teams. We had a chance to keep young supporters, and we have blown it again for another year.
In theory.... the Cats got North and WC twice this year!
Opposition kicks 10 less points for the season and we are in. 10 lousy bloody points! Brisbane game, got back to within 15pts with 2 minutes to go and we give up 3 goals to lose by 33. Give up just one and we are in finals. Not to mention big leads given up early in the year for one kick wins.
We had a chance to keep young supporters, and we have blown it again for another year.
Not true in my house, in fact the opposite has happened and my youngest is now interested in footy and was complaining about the free kick robbing Cripps of a certain goal in the last 🥰 warmed my heart when she usually doesn’t even show a passive interest!
And my elder one has become more passionate, finally they’re getting a taste of real hatred and rivalry with the other big Vic Clubs!
Bring on 2023 - we were too injured this year and still too reliant on Cripps, surely Voss and Cooke have seen enough and will fix the problems!
💪🏼
Not true in my house, in fact the opposite has happened and my youngest is now interested in footy and was complaining about the free kick robbing Cripps of a certain goal in the last 🥰 warmed my heart when she usually doesn’t even show a passive interest!
And my elder one has become more passionate, finally they’re getting a taste of real hatred and rivalry with the other big Vic Clubs!
Bring on 2023 - we were too injured this year and still too reliant on Cripps, surely Voss and Cooke have seen enough and will fix the problems!
💪🏼
Agree Micky, my little one (25yo) has never been more passionate. As disappointed as we were yesterday trudging out of the ground enduring all the Filth celebrations, we both said "bring on 2023".
Record membership coming imo - the devastation will bring people closer to the club and support it.
Top 4 or failed year
Let's face it, we all gave Collingwood supporters the finger after we came back from 44 pts down in the 70 GF, we all cheered loudly when Harmsey order 3 beer while retrieving the ball in the GF of '81 and hands up those who DIDN'T have a wry smile on their face when Dom Sheed threaded the eye of a needle in the 2018 Granny??
We trip and stumble at times, but not in Grand Finals like some teams. Next flag, Blues or Pies? You'd want to make it this year Maggies (which you won't) because we are hungry like the wolf!!
Just read interesting information.
2022: most players used
WC 37
Carlton 37
Not sure how accurate but seems about right. I know folks say injuries are no excuse, but compare the pair.
2021 9 v 13
2022 17 v 9
On top of my wish list. A list with "average" health instead of what we've had in recent years.
Go Blues 2023
Just read interesting information.
2022: most players used
WC 37
Carlton 37
Not sure how accurate but seems about right. I know folks say injuries are no excuse, but compare the pair.
2021 9 v 13
2022 17 v 9
On top of my wish list. A list with "average" health instead of what we've had in recent years.
Go Blues 2023
Injuries absolutely play a part - take Melbournes three of six best midfielders out and they will crumble like no tomorrow.
Injuries absolutely play a part - take Melbournes three of six best midfielders out and they will crumble like no tomorrow.
We saw what happened when May was out!
Another cracking game of footy unfortunately, our boys only turned up half way through the second quarter, and left half way through the last. Collingwood did a lot of little things well. Voss was excellent in the press conference. It was great to see the disappointment of the players - they know they had plenty of opportunity to get into the 8 but stuffed it up - basically many moments throughout the season in games which may not have mattered in that game itself, but overall had an effect on where we finished. (Yes, there were moments that did matter in games). We won a couple of close ones. Lost a couple of close ones, as others have said, if ultimately our defence was 10 points better (<.5 points a games) we were in.
Some players surprised from last season - not many players went backwards. What the changes are off season remain to be seen - I think we only need to make three, but with Jones, Williamson gone, possibly Ed C off the list, there they are.
This will drive the team to be better next year.
Bet Durdin would love to have his final kick again. Don’t know who he was looking for, but it was someone who didn’t go there. Backwards to keep possession would have been good!
Not true in my house, in fact the opposite has happened and my youngest is now interested in footy and was complaining about the free kick robbing Cripps of a certain goal in the last 🥰 warmed my heart when she usually doesn’t even show a passive interest!
And my elder one has become more passionate, finally they’re getting a taste of real hatred and rivalry with the other big Vic Clubs!
Bring on 2023 - we were too injured this year and still too reliant on Cripps, surely Voss and Cooke have seen enough and will fix the problems!
💪🏼
Ir's definitely true for others I know also. This is just anther year of disappointment for my kids, me too. It's not just 2022. Many others also.
Let's see how many kids we keep supporting the Club if we keep missing finals!
Ir's definitely true for others I know also. This is just anther year of disappointment for my kids, me too. It's not just 2022. Many others also.
Let's see how many kids we keep supporting the Club if we keep missing finals!
In the past, the club has sold bulls$&t hope, now it is genuine hope. Watch how many Charlie Curnows and Sammy Walshes turn up at Aus Kick next year. There is pride being restored with being associated with Carlton and it should be a time of real optimism and positive anticipation!
Carlton dominated our Auskick this year.
Those videos taken from behind the goals were horrendous the way we were set up before that last goal. While I didn't expect a complete defensive system to be developed in a week, at least put a couple back in the defensive 50 in the right spots. Being outnumbered 2 to 1 in that last situation was in excusable. Weitering was just standing there. As a leader he should have been trying to organise the defence. The leaders needed their ears to burn after the game. No lessens were learnt from the previous week.
We lacked the nous to be able to shut the game down and stifle the Pies for the last 5 - 10 mins. We should have turned it into a stoppage fest and not allowed their run. Hope we are learning from all of this pain
We lacked the nous to be able to shut the game down and stifle the Pies for the last 5 - 10 mins. We should have turned it into a stoppage fest and not allowed their run. Hope we are learning from all of this pain
Agree, Didn't man up when needed, they were loose everywhere and we had players flatfooted. They also had a few different combos in the middle, J Daicos ran around all day on his own and if you were thinking logically the player who wins close games for them is Elliott, it's like playing Port the one player you manned hard is Robbie Gray in those close games.
I think we need to focus on the fact that all our moments added together, plus all our opponents' moments added together, are what make the season. If only we beat the Hawks in R3 by more than 1 measly point, we would have enough percentage to make 8th. If only this happened, if only that didn't happen etc. The season narrative is cumulative, and unfortunately for us, the accumulation of all those moments was basically death by a thousand cuts. I still think the season is a pass.
Hawks in R3?
What about Port in R5.
We were up by 8 goals at half time and won by just 3 points!
to our coaches what the F...K has collingwood been doing the last 12 weeks to win game ,surely they should of plan for this scenario happening ......
I reckon 'scenario' will be the new buzz word in 2023.
Pretty sure we'll be doing 'end game' scenarios ;D
to our coaches what the F...K has collingwood been doing the last 12 weeks to win game ,surely they should of plan for this scenario happening ......
Last team to have such a dramatic resurgence up the ladder in a short space of time the team in question got done for drugs!
Lets hope the same occurs with the pies.
Didn't realise Patrick Cripps was indigenous.
https://twitter.com/cfcalienn/status/1561687046489776128
I watched the game from the third level rather than my usual seat on level 2 and I had quite a different perspective.
One thing that occurred to me was that many of Collingwood’s inside 50s were kicked from 70m out or closer. Most of our inside 50s were kicked from 70m out or further. Collingwood’s entries were deeper and more threatening and put our defence under pressure. Our shallow entries provided many opportunities for Collingwood’s defenders to rebound and get past our first defensive line.
Did I mention that I watched the game with five fanatical Magpie supporters? I was feeling quite smug until Saad lost a contest he’d probably win 9 times out of 10.
I watched the game from the third level rather than my usual seat on level 2 and I had quite a different perspective.
One thing that occurred to me was that many of Collingwood’s inside 50s were kicked from 70m out or closer. Most of our inside 50s were kicked from 70m out or further. Collingwood’s entries were deeper and more threatening and put our defence under pressure. Our shallow entries provided many opportunities for Collingwood’s defenders to rebound and get past our first defensive line.
Did I mention that I watched the game with five fanatical Magpie supporters? I was feeling quite smug until Saad lost a contest he’d probably win 9 times out of 10.
Noble carved us up with his use of the footy all day.
If Charlie, Big H, Fisher, Owies and Durdin continue next year with the same brain fades, poor decision making and sub standard kicking for goal when under pressure, clearly shown in the last ten minutes of the game, then we are in for quite a few exciting games next year.
Hopefully we will win more games than this season, but we will continue to win games by points rather than goals.
Even early in their careers players such as Isaac Smith, Breust and Gunston showed they had the maturity and foot skills to enable Hawthorn to demolish the opposition and have the game won by half time.
I'm tired of waiting for players to 'mature'. I'd swap Durdin for an 18-year-old Ginnivan in a heartbeat.
Isaac Smith, Breust and Gunston are all skilled, gifted quality players it’s
noticeable from young, a player either has the nous and skill or not, these traits can’t be taught.
Maturity and body hardness help but only to a point if one is good ordinary player.
If Charlie, Big H, Fisher, Owies and Durdin continue next year with the same brain fades, poor decision making and sub standard kicking for goal when under pressure, clearly shown in the last ten minutes of the game, then we are in for quite a few exciting games next year.
Hopefully we will win more games than this season, but we will continue to win games by points rather than goals.
Even early in their careers players such as Isaac Smith, Breust and Gunston showed they had the maturity and foot skills to enable Hawthorn to demolish the opposition and have the game won by half time.
I'm tired of waiting for players to 'mature'. I'd swap Durdin for an 18-year-old Ginnivan in a heartbeat.
Breust didn't debut till he was 21, Smith was 23 when he played his first game.
Breust didn't debut till he was 21, Smith was 23 when he played his first game.
There it is, it's called player development and historically we have had next to none!
Instead we tend to pump up tyres, overpay, throw them in the deep end to see who floats, then complain about slow or stalled development.
I think our club still until recently anyway, had a downhill culture, given a choice between the certainty of the hard yards and the chance of a quick fix, we go the quick fix on almost every occasion!
Even BB who is known industry wide as a top player development type coach, almost destroyed the list by trying to accelerate youth development through adversity, what didn't kill them made them stronger, except you break a lot in the process and if you get it wrong you break them all! BB needed somebody to reign him in, but instead we chose to avoid the hard discussion and let him hang himself and almost destroy the list.
But I feel things have changed under Voss, he's stopped the rinse and repeat cycle we've been on for almost two decades, we are actually seeing good football out of guys who most fans and I presume many at the club had written off!
Voss knows the key to success is the performance of those at the bottom of the list, not accolades for those at the top!
There's not a shred of evidence anywhere that Bolton destroyed the list by playing kids. I know this is a pet theory of yours, and Lord knows we all have them, but there's no basis for it.
I'm sure if you asked Dow, Setterfield, O'Brien etc. whether they prefer languishing in Magoo no mans land or being given tough assignments playing with the big boys, they would give an obvious answer.
There's not a shred of evidence anywhere that Bolton destroyed the list by playing kids. I know this is a pet theory of yours, and Lord knows we all have them, but there's no basis for it.
I'm sure if you asked Dow, Setterfield, O'Brien etc. whether they prefer languishing in Magoo no mans land or being given tough assignments playing with the big boys, they would give an obvious answer.
its not the coach it's the club strategy. Its yet to show any real dividends but there is a key element missing in our team mentality and I believe its a similar affliction that has dogged the Giants and its the fact that players have never had to earn their stripes so to speak. Walsh and weitering are the exception not the rule. Cripps joined a midfield that had class in it so he needed to be class to break into it. The rest? Not so much. Thats our clubs fault. It might be that this is the reason we haven't taken another step forward sooner.
You could probably mount an argument that Teague hampered the development of players like Dow by moving them out of the way and giving their tasks to more experienced players.
The change from youth to experience gave us a short term fix but in the long run it wasn't successful, and probably made it difficult for the young ones to get continuity in their development.
Things like that were road blocks in the rebuild.
It made it a 'stop-start-reset' process that now extends to 7 years without a finals appearance.
Some kids just dont take the next step - it's no biggie really. Happens to all clubs.
You could probably mount an argument that Teague hampered the development of players like Dow by moving them out of the way and giving their tasks to more experienced players.
The change from youth to experience gave us a short term fix but in the long run it wasn't successful, and probably made it difficult for the young ones to get continuity in their development.
Things like that were road blocks in the rebuild.
It made it a 'stop-start-reset' process that now extends to 7 years without a finals appearance.
There's two ways to view that.
1. By taking them out of the coalface and thrusting them into the periphery you force them to really motivate and kick on. Dow has gone from Coalface, to periphery to left right out, and not because Voss doesn't want to play the kids, because he was happy to trust Carroll and Motlop, and forgo more experienced options in those roles.
2. They stalled because they missed the experience of being in the thick of it. Walsh was not exactly held back by any of this though so its hard to mount an argument, and if not for Teague's approach, Matt Kennedy may not have kicked on to become one of our best mids.
I don't buy into a coach holding back a whole groups development. They should be developing anyway, and the coach is there to pull it all together and make a team, a team.
The annoying thing about the finals is that we all know we are better than the Bulldogs and Lions, and can hold our own against the Magpies, Demons, Swans, Freo and Tigers... Cats still need some work.
A lot ot clubs will be sleeping better that we aren't there - but we will be!!
There it is, it's called player development and historically we have had next to none!
Instead we tend to pump up tyres, overpay, throw them in the deep end to see who floats, then complain about slow or stalled development.
I think our club still until recently anyway, had a downhill culture, given a choice between the certainty of the hard yards and the chance of a quick fix, we go the quick fix on almost every occasion!
Even BB who is known industry wide as a top player development type coach, almost destroyed the list by trying to accelerate youth development through adversity, what didn't kill them made them stronger, except you break a lot in the process and if you get it wrong you break them all! BB needed somebody to reign him in, but instead we chose to avoid the hard discussion and let him hang himself and almost destroy the list.
But I feel things have changed under Voss, he's stopped the rinse and repeat cycle we've been on for almost two decades, we are actually seeing good football out of guys who most fans and I presume many at the club had written off!
Voss knows the key to success is the performance of those at the bottom of the list, not accolades for those at the top!
Whoa there, Spotted One. Let's not rewrite history, or compare oranges with cheese.
BB was tasked with stepping into the breach after a blow torch was taken to the list to begin probably one of the most ambitious rebuilds in AFL history. I don't believe his attitude was teach through adversity, but rather teach through a thorough education of the basics... then how to handle adversity and grow through it. Adversity was a given, given the inexperience of the list. For the first two years of his tenure, in particular, his ability to not only hold a club together but temper our expectations with reality and hope was first class.
Breust didn't debut till he was 21, Smith was 23 when he played his first game.
Yes, Issac Smith spent several years playing for North Ballarat when they were winning flags. Was a star with them.
I hope the club (and I'm sure they are) is getting behind Charles and Small Durds in particular. They've been singled out by many, and, yes, they made critical errors but they should not carry the burden of the loss. Beating themselves up, or taking to heart criticisms will serve no useful purpose. They're a coupla quality young men who made strong contributions through the year to us being in the 8... that's what's important now, and everyone learning from mistakes, then acknowledging how much was done right and will be improved upon in 2023.
The annoying thing about the finals is that we all know we are better than the Bulldogs and Lions, and can hold our own against the Magpies, Demons, Swans, Freo and Tigers... Cats still need some work.
A lot ot clubs will be sleeping better that we aren't there - but we will be!!
While we had a couple of losses previously those last 2 losses weren't the normal losses. We played some great footy, just choked it up when it mattered. That 3rd qtr, 8 goals to 1, was as good as it gets. If it were, say, round 10, we would have gone on to crush them miserably. The pressure of it being round 23 playing for a finals spot crushed us under pressure.
Take out the choking aspect we'd beat Brisbane, who are equally piss weak mentally come finals, and Collingwood in consecutive finals and play a Prelim. Unfortunately, mental pressure is a big part of finals as well as the physical and something that will be important to work on come pre-season.
I hope the club (and I'm sure they are) is getting behind Charles and Small Durds in particular. They've been singled out by many, and, yes, they made critical errors but they should not carry the burden of the loss. Beating themselves up, or taking to heart criticisms will serve no useful purpose. They're a coupla quality young men who made strong contributions through the year to us being in the 8... that's what's important now, and everyone learning from mistakes, then acknowledging how much was done right and will be improved upon in 2023.
We have to get behind those two but at the same time kick the leaders right up the arse for the way we were defensively set up in that last play. That behind the goals vision was something horrendous. Weitering, as a leader, should have been sorting that defence positioning. Needed two more behind the ball once it was a 5 point margin.
The annoying thing about the finals is that we all know we are better than the Bulldogs and Lions, and can hold our own against the Magpies, Demons, Swans, Freo and Tigers... Cats still need some work.
A lot ot clubs will be sleeping better that we aren't there - but we will be!!
It's interesting isn't it...
The general feeling is that we don't deserve to be there because we lost our way in the second half of the season.
That's fair enough.
But in the last two games we've been in winning positions, a bee's dick away from the final siren, against two 'in form' teams inside the top four.
We overwhelmed one in the third quarter on the weekend.
We've matched it with the very best...playing a brand of football for much of the game that would more than stand up in finals.
You can't replicate what we went through in the last 2 rounds at training. Unfortunately you need to experience it to learn from it. Hawthorn had the Kennett curse where they lost a dozen games in a row under 10 points before they broke it and won 3 flags. Collingwood had played in 10 thrillers this year alone and were well placed to handle the occasion on Sunday. They also didn't have the same pressure in that their finals spot was secure, same as Melbourne.
You can't replicate what we went through in the last 2 rounds at training. Unfortunately you need to experience it to learn from it. Hawthorn had the Kennett curse where they lost a dozen games in a row under 10 points before they broke it and won 3 flags. Collingwood had played in 10 thrillers this year alone and were well placed to handle the occasion on Sunday. They also didn't have the same pressure in that their finals spot was secure, same as Melbourne.
Can't replicate the mental pressure but you can train the ability to set properly up in such pressure circumstances though, so it becomes automatic. Even if you are feeling mental pressure, you give yourself a much chance if properly set up.
There it is, it's called player development and historically we have had next to none!
Without taking time to review the progress of our younger players since the time Ratten was in charge, this comment might be one of the most accurate. High draft picks have developed slowly (if at all).
Apart from Matt Cottrell, the last low-drafted players to make significant progress might have been Betts and Tuohy.
Whoa there, Spotted One. Let's not rewrite history, or compare oranges with cheese.
BB was tasked with stepping into the breach after a blow torch was taken to the list to begin probably one of the most ambitious rebuilds in AFL history. I don't believe his attitude was teach through adversity, but rather teach through a thorough education of the basics... then how to handle adversity and grow through it. Adversity was a given, given the inexperience of the list. For the first two years of his tenure, in particular, his ability to not only hold a club together but temper our expectations with reality and hope was first class.
Ive said it before and Ill say it again, BB was good for us probably would have delivered given the time the Bomber Thompsons, the Goodwins and the Harwicks of world have been given. They moved the goal posts on him mid shag and was given the bullet.
Happy with Voss has he brings the kent factor we have all been longing to see from our group.
It's interesting isn't it...
The general feeling is that we don't deserve to be there because we lost our way in the second half of the season.
That's fair enough.
But in the last two games we've been in winning positions, a bee's dick away from the final siren, against two 'in form' teams inside the top four.
We overwhelmed one in the third quarter on the weekend.
We've matched it with the very best...playing a brand of football for much of the game that would more than stand up in finals.
Dreamtime...
We go back and play those 2 games with a regular midfield
OR
We go back to anytime pre-bye and play a game or 2 with a regular defence
So close yet so far
In the past, the club has sold bulls$&t hope, now it is genuine hope. Watch how many Charlie Curnows and Sammy Walshes turn up at Aus Kick next year. There is pride being restored with being associated with Carlton and it should be a time of real optimism and positive anticipation!
Yes, agreed, should be, but until you make a final and win one at a minimum, it's still selling BS. Such an improvement this year for sure but let's face it we were a basket case for so long. Still a bit of a laughing stock and butt of jokes cos we choked. But, the cold hard truth is we didn't make finals. As I have said for a loooooooong time, close enough is not good enough. Improvement made, yes. Are we playing in the next game. No. Other teams are and if you want to keep kids as supporters, the next gen, we'd want to bloody well make finals at an absolute minimum in 2023, or more BS will keep rolling through the Club.
Still a bit of a laughing stock and butt of jokes cos we choked.
We called the Tiges 'Ninthmond' for quite a while on this site. Three flags later.....
Lessons are only good if they are learned. Richmond got snarly because of it. One can only hope.
Players would have learnt that in big games have to step up in the big moments.
Coaches and List managers would have had a very good look at this list and got very good information on who can step up in the moment and who can't.
I hope the club (and I'm sure they are) is getting behind Charles and Small Durds in particular. They've been singled out by many, and, yes, they made critical errors but they should not carry the burden of the loss. Beating themselves up, or taking to heart criticisms will serve no useful purpose. They're a coupla quality young men who made strong contributions through the year to us being in the 8... that's what's important now, and everyone learning from mistakes, then acknowledging how much was done right and will be improved upon in 2023.
We have been the standout club this year for choking in either the last half or last quarter of matches. I am sure Voss was aware of it from the first occurrence yet he has been unable to stop it and hence our inability to stay in the eight.
With that in mind, I am not as confident that everyone will learn from their mistakes. I worry that it may have become a mental issue with this list that plays on their minds and produces an ingrained response to stress, namely, choking.
i think the coincidence of two consecutive last minute losses may be leading to false conclusions. We held on for a few close victories in the early part of the season, with other teams coming at us in the latter stages. No choking there. There's a body of work both ways, and it's inconclusive at this point, whether these last 2 games were chokes or just lack of nous / experience in the back line, or fatigue or many other reasons. Don't forget the Pies have overrun half the competition this season.
i think the coincidence of two consecutive last minute losses may be leading to false conclusions. We held on for a few close victories in the early part of the season, with other teams coming at us in the latter stages. No choking there. There's a body of work both ways, and it's inconclusive at this point, whether these last 2 games were chokes or just lack of nous / experience in the back line, or fatigue or many other reasons. Don't forget the Pies have overrun half the competition this season.
Early in the season isn't round 22/23 when a win is an utter necessity to play finals. The game against the Pies there was no tomorrow. It was win to make finals or bust. Round 4 you have another 18 games.
The only pattern I saw that held up all year with few outliers was we played 1 quarter of scintillating football most weeks, one quarter which was good and then 2 almost complete no shows.
The only games that bucked this trend were the victory vs freo, the defeat vs Melbourne and the defeat against Adelaide. Melbourne and Freo were 2 four quarter performances, whilst against Adelaide we just never got going really.
Thats from memory, so excuse any Alzheimers there.
That was our 2022, and the game against Collingwood dot points it.
Yes, Issac Smith spent several years playing for North Ballarat when they were winning flags. Was a star with them.
North were going to take Smith as Nth Ballarat were affiliated with them but the Hawks went early at pick 7, taking State League players that early was taboo back then but the Hawks gambled and won, Smith could be looking at flag No 4 this year and has been a lucky charm through his football career.
Believe he played with fellow Hawks Bruest and Suckling as a kid too, Michael Jamison of course was a player we did pluck from Nth Ballarat as a rookie from the same era...
i think the coincidence of two consecutive last minute losses may be leading to false conclusions. We held on for a few close victories in the early part of the season, with other teams coming at us in the latter stages. No choking there. There's a body of work both ways, and it's inconclusive at this point, whether these last 2 games were chokes or just lack of nous / experience in the back line, or fatigue or many other reasons. Don't forget the Pies have overrun half the competition this season.
I think the Melbourne game is the one that gives us most hope.
Melbourne are the real deal.
They were fighting for a top 4 spot so had a lot to play for...
They came to play and we matched it with them in a four quarter effort in an intense finals type game.
We backed it up for a long time against another top 4 side with just as much to play for...and in fact dominated them entirely for a quarter.
Maybe we should be cautious, but at the same time don't dismiss totally the quality of the effort if not the execution of those last two games.
I think the Melbourne game is the one that gives us most hope.
Melbourne are the real deal.
They were fightying for a top 4 spot so had a lot to play for...
They came to play and we matched it with them in a four quarter effort in an intense finals type game.
We backed it up for a long time against another top 4 side with just as much to play for...and in fact dominated them entirely for a quarter.
Maybe we should be cautious, but at the same time don't dismiss totally the quality of the effort if not the execution of those last two games.
I agree. Those two games showed the progress as well as the work yet to be done. Basically 2 finals in a row with plenty of effort and good fight and extremely close to winning both.
I agree. Those two games showed the progress as well as the work yet to be done. Basically 2 finals in a row with plenty of effort and good fight and extremely close to winning both.
We have to be proud of the effort.
I read an article today highlighting how unfair the draw is in such a close season. We played three finalists twice, tigers played zero. Brisbane, Fremantle, Collingwood Geelong and Sydney only played one. The Cats also played North and West Coast twice.
We called the Tiges 'Ninthmond' for quite a while on this site. Three flags later.....
Lessons are only good if they are learned. Richmond got snarly because of it. One can only hope.
Yep, to my point earlier. No way you can just assume we 'make it' next year. No more excuses. That's loser mentality. When Richmond changed their mentality, things changed quickly.
We have to be proud of the effort.
I read an article today highlighting how unfair the draw is in such a close season. We played three finalists twice, tigers played zero. Brisbane, Fremantle, Collingwood Geelong and Sydney only played one. The Cats also played North and West Coast twice.
Yep, I'm very proud of the boys. The closest we will get to a fair draw is a 17 round season - each team plays each other once, and home grounds are swapped year to year. I understand the public wants more games, and the AFL wants more money, but the current system just seems designed to fill a 6 month time period.
No more excuses or living in denial, we had the Pies on toast at 3/4 time and choked like a baby bird with a tennis ball stuck in its throat because we knew they had that reputation for never say die and once they got that sniff of Navy Blue Blood they just wouldnt let up and kept coming. Good players goofed off, lost contests they shouldnt, leaders didnt lead and we let a less talented team torture us with the result.
Its either builds resolve or we become the new Nthmond and we have to look at the list and work out who isnt taking us to the next level and act. We had a chance to give players finals experience this season and maybe even win one but we ballsed up that opportunity which is a decent setback imho when you are trying to build a foundation for sustained success.
Pratty is right to say we cant assume anything and we cant trust this football club and its players because they dont have any runs on the board in that regard.
I would be all over the list and making changes where appropriate and not adopting a set and forget attitude like some seem to want, imo there are plenty of players under the microscope and we dont want them feeling safe and comfortable to the point where they dont want to improve. 2022 Better, but still disappointing and as Voss said we need standards driven higher.....
Our players got a heap of the ball but Collingwood's gameplan is kryptonite to ours. Like the 1993 grand final we were out coached.
I read an article today highlighting how unfair the draw is in such a close season. We played three finalists twice, tigers played zero. Brisbane, Fremantle, Collingwood Geelong and Sydney only played one. The Cats also played North and West Coast twice.
I've been writing about this for well over a decade now.
Found various ways to make it fairer than our current system. Nobody wants a bar of it because.....tradition....or some equally poor reasoning.
17 rounds doesn't work. You can't get even home and away matches, you could get a very hard draw one year and a very easy draw the next and repeat. The AFL don't get enough games, thus get enough money, thus the players need to take a pay cut etc.
We have to get behind those two but at the same time kick the leaders right up the arse for the way we were defensively set up in that last play. That behind the goals vision was something horrendous. Weitering, as a leader, should have been sorting that defence positioning. Needed two more behind the ball once it was a 5 point margin.
I thought exactly the same thing, re Weiters, which was a worry. Pretty sure had Doc been down back he'd have been barking instructions.
No more excuses or living in denial, we had the Pies on toast at 3/4 time and choked like a baby bird with a tennis ball stuck in its throat because we knew they had that reputation for never say die and once they got that sniff of Navy Blue Blood they just wouldnt let up and kept coming. Good players goofed off, lost contests they shouldnt, leaders didnt lead and we let a less talented team torture us with the result.
Its either builds resolve or we become the new Nthmond and we have to look at the list and work out who isnt taking us to the next level and act. We had a chance to give players finals experience this season and maybe even win one but we ballsed up that opportunity which is a decent setback imho when you are trying to build a foundation for sustained success.
Pratty is right to say we cant assume anything and we cant trust this football club and its players because they dont have any runs on the board in that regard.
I would be all over the list and making changes where appropriate and not adopting a set and forget attitude like some seem to want, imo there are plenty of players under the microscope and we dont want them feeling safe and comfortable to the point where they dont want to improve. 2022 Better, but still disappointing and as Voss said we need standards driven higher.....
EB all due respect, the Ninethmond tag was given to Richmond after years of finishing 9th, we are no where near Ninethond. It was an unforgivable and brutal end to the season, no question. But there is very much to like and we will bounce back next year. I will almost bet every penny I own that what happened the last two weeks will not be repeated by a Carlton side under Voss's watch.
No more excuses or living in denial, we had the Pies on toast at 3/4 time and choked like a baby bird with a tennis ball stuck in its throat because we knew they had that reputation for never say die and once they got that sniff of Navy Blue Blood they just wouldnt let up and kept coming. Good players goofed off, lost contests they shouldnt, leaders didnt lead and we let a less talented team torture us with the result.
Its either builds resolve or we become the new Nthmond and we have to look at the list and work out who isnt taking us to the next level and act. We had a chance to give players finals experience this season and maybe even win one but we ballsed up that opportunity which is a decent setback imho when you are trying to build a foundation for sustained success.
Pratty is right to say we cant assume anything and we cant trust this football club and its players because they dont have any runs on the board in that regard.
I would be all over the list and making changes where appropriate and not adopting a set and forget attitude like some seem to want, imo there are plenty of players under the microscope and we dont want them feeling safe and comfortable to the point where they dont want to improve. 2022 Better, but still disappointing and as Voss said we need standards driven higher.....
Understand your perspective, EB1 and it sure is fair enough. We've had enough false dawns to break the most optimistic of hearts.
However...
Had we nailed at least one of those early final qtr shots against Rottingwood, we probably would have had the confidence to go on with the job. Lesson: efficiency, composure, leadership and persistence.
Those final two games were as close to finals pressure as you could get in a H&A season. The boys will have learnt heaps from both games, especially against the Dagpies.
Throughout the season we barely came close to having the chance to select from our best 25. Guys who came in to plug gaps, performed, in the main, admirably... and got valuable experience. Most importantly, our game plan held up against the best, just didn't have the cattle or experience to fulfill it for longer... even a coupla minutes!
The one lingering weakness (no doubt contributed to, to a degree, by what I mentioned above), and has been for years, is folding under real or perceived pressure/having our strengths challenged. This must be a focus for a pre season - how to react to challenge/heat/pressure with delight, and meet it then answer it with even more ruthlessness, composure and efficiency. Fierce and smart response beats 'into my shell' reaction every day of the week.
No more excuses or living in denial, we had the Pies on toast at 3/4 time and choked like a baby bird with a tennis ball stuck in its throat because we knew they had that reputation for never say die and once they got that sniff of Navy Blue Blood they just wouldnt let up and kept coming. Good players goofed off, lost contests they shouldnt, leaders didnt lead and we let a less talented team torture us with the result.
Its either builds resolve or we become the new Nthmond and we have to look at the list and work out who isnt taking us to the next level and act. We had a chance to give players finals experience this season and maybe even win one but we ballsed up that opportunity which is a decent setback imho when you are trying to build a foundation for sustained success.
Pratty is right to say we cant assume anything and we cant trust this football club and its players because they dont have any runs on the board in that regard.
I would be all over the list and making changes where appropriate and not adopting a set and forget attitude like some seem to want, imo there are plenty of players under the microscope and we dont want them feeling safe and comfortable to the point where they dont want to improve. 2022 Better, but still disappointing and as Voss said we need standards driven higher.....
I don’t agree!
I watched the game with five Collingwood supporters and they all agreed that we outplayed them after quarter time. We lost because we didn’t convert our forward 50 entries, particularly in the last quarter.
As they say, bad kicking is bad football and our kicking for goal in the last quarter was as bad as it gets. What we needed was Eddie Betts out there to settle the nerves and ensure that we converted at least half of our shots at goal.
I’m not blaming Charlie for the loss, but if he had taken 30 seconds off the clock and nailed what was a fairly simple shot at goal, this discussion wouldn’t be happening.
I don’t agree!
I watched the game with five Collingwood supporters and they all agreed that we outplayed them after quarter time. We lost because we didn’t convert our forward 50 entries, particularly in the last quarter.
As they say, bad kicking is bad football and our kicking for goal in the last quarter was as bad as it gets. What we needed was Eddie Betts out there to settle the nerves and ensure that we converted at least half of our shots at goal.
I’m not blaming Charlie for the loss, but if he had taken 30 seconds off the clock and nailed what was a fairly simple shot at goal, this discussion wouldn’t be happening.
You can say that again!
The last person I have trusted with the ball having a shot on goal was Fev.
We have for a long time been poor converters.
I don’t agree!
I watched the game with five Collingwood supporters and they all agreed that we outplayed them after quarter time. We lost because we didn’t convert our forward 50 entries, particularly in the last quarter.
As they say, bad kicking is bad football and our kicking for goal in the last quarter was as bad as it gets. What we needed was Eddie Betts out there to settle the nerves and ensure that we converted at least half of our shots at goal.
I’m not blaming Charlie for the loss, but if he had taken 30 seconds off the clock and nailed what was a fairly simple shot at goal, this discussion wouldn’t be happening.
The example you have given of Charlie shows part of our forward line problem. Had it been Durdin and not Charlie who made that mistake we would be excusing him on the basis he was young and relatively inexperienced and no doubt would learn a valuable lesson.
Charlie however seems to have had a maturity bypass and seems to place greater value on instant, emotional decisions - just as he has always done. It looks great when he takes a mark, wheels around and kicks a 50 metre goal, but unless he can develop the ability to slow down and assess the situation before kicking then he will be just wasting so much talent.
The example you have given of Charlie shows part of our forward line problem. Had it been Durdin and not Charlie who made that mistake we would be excusing him on the basis he was young and relatively inexperienced and no doubt would learn a valuable lesson.
Charlie however seems to have had a maturity bypass and seems to place greater value on instant, emotional decisions - just as he has always done. It looks great when he takes a mark, wheels around and kicks a 50 metre goal, but unless he can develop the ability to slow down and assess the situation before kicking then he will be just wasting so much talent.
Agree, Charlie needs to play the percentages in the big moments.
Happy he won the Coleman but he can improve his own effectiveness and bring other players into the game more.
I reckon if you looked at the stats that Hawkins and Cameron would have a fair share of assists to add to their goals kicked. Like to see Charlie and Harry show a bit more lateral thinking sometimes and set other players up more, I'm sure they will learn to do that more with experience and some strong coaching from Ash Hansen in particular.
We have to be proud of the effort.
I read an article today highlighting how unfair the draw is in such a close season. We played three finalists twice, tigers played zero. Brisbane, Fremantle, Collingwood Geelong and Sydney only played one. The Cats also played North and West Coast twice.
I read that too. I thought there were so called equalisation mechanisms in place. I think it worked by having a certain draw based on previous finishing position.
Anyways.. it's just another inequity the AFL deliver
We ran out of steam in the last quarter. Right in front of me live at the ground I could see it happening. A few crucial runs that we didn’t get close to.
People have forgotten - we had Kennedy, Hewitt and Walsh out of our midfield. We had a sore Saad and an equally sore Crippa after that knock with JSOS, running around. Add in a Weiters who hasn’t been the same since his injury, a ZWilliams who hasn’t played for how many months…?
Add in some wonky crap umpiring calls gifting them a goal and taking a certain one from us.
And it’s a miracle we were in the position we were in at 3/4 time.
The sting has gone for me of this game. We played our guts out under duress and just missed out on a finals spot. We were never going to make a dent come finals time, dragging injured players to the finish line. The last two games has given us what we need. Lessons to be learned. We have the players, just need to harden them up, keep them together and fit and healthy and go again next year with more depth, more experience, more hunger 💪🏼
We ran out of steam in the last quarter. Right in front of me live at the ground I could see it happening. A few crucial runs that we didn’t get close to.
People have forgotten - we had Kennedy, Hewitt and Walsh out of our midfield. We had a sore Saad and an equally sore Crippa after that knock with JSOS, running around. Add in a Weiters who hasn’t been the same since his injury, a ZWilliams who hasn’t played for how many months…?
Add in some wonky crap umpiring calls gifting them a goal and taking a certain one from us.
And it’s a miracle we were in the position we were in at 3/4 time.
The sting has gone for me of this game. We played our guts out under duress and just missed out on a finals spot. We were never going to make a dent come finals time, dragging injured players to the finish line. The last two games has given us what we need. Lessons to be learned. We have the players, just need to harden them up, keep them together and fit and healthy and go again next year with more depth, more experience, more hunger 💪🏼
Actually, not choke, go on in the last qtr, make the 8 and I reckon we beat Brisbane, who are awful in September, and we'd then likely play the Pies again. Could well have been a Prelim.
Unreal to think with just 6 min to go we led by 17pts.
I read that too. I thought there were so called equalisation mechanisms in place. I think it worked by having a certain draw based on previous finishing position.
Anyways.. it's just another inequity the AFL deliver
3 different sides in the 8 to last year, Freo, Collingwood and Richmond, although you'd have a fair idea the latter, a triple premiership team, would make it. They do the draw based on the previous year, but it can change so much 12 months later.
I thought exactly the same thing, re Weiters, which was a worry. Pretty sure had Doc been down back he'd have been barking instructions.
Just another example of the waterfall effect injuries can have on a team. Train and play all year with Doc's as the defensive Captain only to have him up the ground after having to shuffle the side due to midfield injuries. Not and excuse, just an observation.
Just another example of the waterfall effect injuries can have on a team. Train and play all year with Doc's as the defensive Captain only to have him up the ground after having to shuffle the side due to midfield injuries. Not and excuse, just an observation.
And he did very well in the middle, such a versatile player. Having said that, the senior players MUST bark the instructions from anywhere on the ground, even the bench. MUST get better at that.
we are kidding ourselves ,we lost to GC,ADL,SAINTS,with those players in the side and we just manage to hang on DOGS, PORT games,most teams play 20 mins of football and manage to beat us . Our supporters need to look at season not the last 2 games.
we are kidding ourselves ,we lost to GC,ADL,SAINTS,with those players in the side and we just manage to hang on DOGS, PORT games,most teams play 20 mins of football and manage to beat us . Our supporters need to look at season not the last 2 games.
The Adelaide game cost us, All sides drop easier games but you have to make it up with a scalp and we didn't. Tigers lost to North Melbourne in round 18 but beat the Lions two weeks later.
we are kidding ourselves ,we lost to GC,ADL,SAINTS,with those players in the side and we just manage to hang on DOGS, PORT games,most teams play 20 mins of football and manage to beat us . Our supporters need to look at season not the last 2 games.
All sides lose stinkers. Swans, a red hot flag chance, lost to GC in Sydney but beat Geelong and Melbourne, which more than made up for it. In 1995 we lost to the Swans and Saints, so stinkers happen.
Saints were in the 8 at the time but the Adelaide loss was feeble. We lost to GC but that happens up there. We didn't make up for it enough although we did beat the Swans. We beat 4 sides in the 8, but should have beaten 6, meaning Collingwood (twice) and Melbourne last 2 games but choked it up at the wrong time.
All sides lose stinkers. Swans, a red hot flag chance, lost to GC in Sydney but beat Geelong and Melbourne, which more than made up for it. In 1995 we lost to the Swans and Saints, so stinkers happen.
Saints were in the 8 at the time but the Adelaide loss was feeble. We lost to GC but that happens up there. We didn't make up for it enough although we did beat the Swans. We beat 4 sides in the 8, but should have beaten 6, meaning Collingwood (twice) and Melbourne last 2 games but choked it up at the wrong time.
None of the above were in the 8 for 23 weeks and missed finals. No matter how you twist it and turn it, its one of the all time greatest chokes and we need to fix it in 2023 or else the stench will linger forever.
None of the above were in the 8 for 23 weeks and missed finals. No matter how you twist it and turn it, its one of the all time greatest chokes and we need to fix it in 2023 or else the stench will linger forever.
Without over reacting, we could have fixed this multiple ways.
1. And 2. Hold on to win last two rounds.
3. Beat Adelaide instead of sleeping.
4. Concede less goals in our losses.
5. Win by bigger margins.
6. Playing more 4 quarter efforts.
We missed out by .6 of a percent.
Now is not the time to call it the greatest choke of all times. Collingwood own that mantle in grand finals.
Given our injury toll and the biased draw, our 2022 season could well be one of the greatest over-achievements in AFL/VFL history.
Without over reacting, we could have fixed this multiple ways.
1. And 2. Hold on to win last two rounds.
3. Beat Adelaide instead of sleeping.
4. Concede less goals in our losses.
5. Win by bigger margins.
6. Playing more 4 quarter efforts.
We missed out by .6 of a percent.
Now is not the time to call it the greatest choke of all times. Collingwood own that mantle in grand finals.
yeah nah
Without over reacting, we could have fixed this multiple ways.
1. And 2. Hold on to win last two rounds.
3. Beat Adelaide instead of sleeping.
4. Concede less goals in our losses.
5. Win by bigger margins.
6. Playing more 4 quarter efforts.
We missed out by .6 of a percent.
Now is not the time to call it the greatest choke of all times. Collingwood own that mantle in grand finals.
Why let reason get in the way of hysteria and list/wrist slashing and burning…?
Why let reason get in the way of hysteria and list/wrist slashing and burning…?
You can choke/fail and not be hysterical, list/slashing and burning you know. Just own it, learn and come back bigger and better. I aint hysterical or slashing wrists, Im buying my membership asap.
Bring 2023 the fark on
Anyone who doesn't think we have made significant leaps forwards this year has obviously not watched enough games. In total, we won 4 more games than 2021, and our % is >20 higher. That is significant progress in any man's language.
Knowing what the list can be capable of, Voss et al have plenty to work on over the summer.
Just getting out first-pick players fit would be a great start.
In 1995 we lost to the Swans and Saints, so stinkers happen.
Would love to know if the rumors around this are true, or not. I even once asked The Dominator, at a function, if these games paid for the end of season trip, or not.... he straight-batted the question back to to me.....
Would love to know if the rumors around this are true, or not. I even once asked The Dominator, at a function, if these games paid for the end of season trip, or not.... he straight-batted the question back to to me.....
Complete myth. We lost our last round match in 94 before losing both finals, no way after 7 rounds did we think we had the flag in the bag.
need some luck with injuries in 2023
Complete myth.
No it aint.
splitting our home games is a disadvantage.
Carlton play a total of 9 games athe G and 7 at Marvel.
Collingwood split is 15 and 3
Richmond is 14 and 3
Melbourne is 13 and 2
We have no home ground.
We were also without Kernahan and Williams in both those 1995 losses.
splitting our home games is a disadvantage.
Carlton play a total of 9 games athe G and 7 at Marvel.
Collingwood split is 15 and 3
Richmond is 14 and 3
Melbourne is 13 and 2
We have no home ground.
Another inequity across the competition 🤔
splitting our home games is a disadvantage.
Carlton play a total of 9 games athe G and 7 at Marvel.
Collingwood split is 15 and 3
Richmond is 14 and 3
Melbourne is 13 and 2
We have no home ground.
Not sure any Victorian side has but Geelong. Alot of them play so many games at the G, including us that it is near everyone's home ground. Even Geelong play 7 times at the G. They'd all know the ground as well as as each other. Geelong would have the biggest home advantage in the country. Interstate sides have a big advantage of course but then they have to travel 10 times too.
Would love to know if the rumors around this are true, or not. I even once asked The Dominator, at a function, if these games paid for the end of season trip, or not.... he straight-batted the question back to to me.....
Can tell you stories about 1982.
Would love to know if the rumors around this are true, or not. I even once asked The Dominator, at a function, if these games paid for the end of season trip, or not.... he straight-batted the question back to to me.....
Its a bit ironic that you ask Mil.