Although not a Monarchist in any way shape or form, Lizzie was all class.
RIP Queen Elizabeth II.
Not a fan of the Royal family or the idea that royal blood makes you superior than the next man or woman but the Queen had a difficult job managing that family of hers, covering their feck ups and making it work and for that she deserves some kudos.
Loved the Queen, class and dignity personified. RIP Liz.
A long and full life well lived.
Sometimes privilege isn't all it's cut up to be
There are the onerous, and often boring affairs of state, and the troubles that plague all families are always played out in a very public fashion.
She had more than her share.
RIP.
(Thanks Betty, Good Luck Chuck....you'll need it ;) )
Not a fan of the Royal family or the idea that royal blood makes you superior than the next man or woman but the Queen had a difficult job managing that family of hers, covering their feck ups and making it work and for that she deserves some kudos.
The monarchy is an anachronism and I suspect that Charles may well be the last of the line ... certainly for Commonwealth countries that haven't already become republics.
However, from her role as an ATS driver during WW2 through to her patience and forebearance in dealing with a whole gamut of prime ministers, good, bad and indifferent, during her reign, you can't deny the class, determination and devotion of Elizabeth II.
RIP
I think Charles will be under some pressure to modernise and scale back the monarchy going forward.
I think Charles will be under some pressure to modernise and scale back the monarchy going forward.
I reckon after a year or two of unpopularity, Charles and his old squeeze Camilla will be retired and the more youthful and popular William and Kate will take over and try and start a fresh chapter of the Royal Dynasty including returning the fallen Prince Harry and his evil Mrs to the fold.
If there was ever a time to cut ties with the monarchy, now is it.
If there was ever a time to cut ties with the monarchy, now is it.
Not for the next couple of months. ;)
I doubt you'll hear the politicians even mention it much this side of Christmas.
(Except perhaps Adam Bandt and co.)
It'll become a subject of discussion in the New Year though.
The body is still warm and the "cancel culturalists" are out in full force. I find it staggering how quick some are to delete part of our history. I find it embarassing.
Not for the next couple of months. ;)
I doubt you'll hear the politicians even mention it much this side of Christmas.
(Except perhaps Adam Brandt and co.)
It'll become a subject of discussion in the New Year though.
I'm not suggesting literally right now, but during the transition phase that is going to have to occur.
How long before all our currency has to get changed over etc etc.
I don't think Australia really need to be 'ruled' anymore and i think the republic push of the late 90's was half-ar$ed and tokenism, everyone has been quiet since then because everyone loves Lizzy. But from here on out things will be different.
We will be 'ruled' by 'Mr Tampon'....and it only gets worse from him.
I'm not suggesting literally right now, but during the transition phase that is going to have to occur.
How long before all our currency has to get changed over etc etc.
I don't think Australia really need to be 'ruled' anymore and i think the republic push of the late 90's was half-ar$ed and tokenism, everyone has been quiet since then because everyone loves Lizzy. But from here on out things will be different.
We will be 'ruled' by 'Mr Tampon'....and it only gets worse from him.
Maybe so but I'm saying you probably won't get a receptive audience just at the moment amongst the uncommitted.
Strangely Charles is probably in tune with a lot of views expressed on here with regard to a range of things like climate change.
The body is still warm and the "cancel culturalists" are out in full force. I find it staggering how quick some are to delete part of our history. I find it embarassing.
Too polite GTC Old Son... absolutely abhorrent and petty. They could take a leaf out of Lizzie's book and show a little class.
Maybe so but I'm saying you probably won't get a receptive audience just at the moment amongst the uncommitted.
Strangely Charles is probably in tune with a lot of views expressed on here with regard to a range of things like climate change.
Yes, I think that's true. He is a fan of "New Urbanism", a movement started in the 1980's. Among its leading lights are two architect / urban planner brothers, Rob and Leon Krier. The basic idea is simple enough - small neighborhoods of genuine mixed use, where pretty much everything the average person needs is within walking distance - minimizing car use, improving the environment, minimizing energy consumption, creating better health outcomes for the residents. Poundbury near Dorchester is the first community designed on their principles. Construction is well advanced and planned for completion by 2025.
Yes, I think that's true. He is a fan of "New Urbanism", a movement started in the 1980's. Among its leading lights are two architect / urban planner brothers, Rob and Leon Krier. The basic idea is simple enough - small neighborhoods of genuine mixed use, where pretty much everything the average person needs is within walking distance - minimizing car use, improving the environment, minimizing energy consumption, creating better health outcomes for the residents. Poundbury near Dorchester is the first community designed on their principles. Construction is well advanced and planned for completion by 2025.
I find myself in two minds re Charles. I've watched docos that feature his very real commitment to progressive environmental change, as you sight here. Then I hear interviews with Diana's former 'man servant' or whatever the heck he is called, sighting the abysmal treatment of Diana, in effect just a vehicle for some heirs to the throne. Time will tell re Charles, meanwhile I'll go off and argue with myself about him as King.
What could a 73 year possibly have to offer as king?
Completely out of step with modern society. Should bypass Charlie and go straight to William.
RIP Queen Elizabeth. She has been an impressive monarch who will be hard to replace.
I hope Charles III will be better than the 2 previous models. Charles I got his head removed through stupidity. Charles II may have been the 'Merry Monarch', but he was always a political stoolie for his French cousins. Not being able to provide an heir is also a black mark in a family business. That leaves Charles plenty of opportunity to make the third chance the success.
In April I discovered I was Queen Elizabeth's 6th or 7th cousin, I don't remember which. That was pretty weird: I don't consider myself very special at all. I'm an even closer relative to Princess Di, but ...
Just a piece of trivia.
I find myself in two minds re Charles. I've watched docos that feature his very real commitment to progressive environmental change, as you sight here. Then I hear interviews with Diana's former 'man servant' or whatever the heck he is called, sighting the abysmal treatment of Diana, in effect just a vehicle for some heirs to the throne. Time will tell re Charles, meanwhile I'll go off and argue with myself about him as King.
I'm fairly neutral on the monarchy. I'm not fussed if they retire tomorrow, or if they're around for another thousand years. There's certainly a part of the population that follows them with keen interest. They seem both uninteresting and inoffensive to me.
As to Charles and Di, I suspect there's only two people who really know who did what to who, and one of them is gone. There's plenty of scuttlebutt from supposed insiders. Who knows ? I never followed it much, but they both seemed pretty unhappy, and they won't the first nor the last couple who stuffed up their first marriage.
Maybe so but I'm saying you probably won't get a receptive audience just at the moment amongst the uncommitted.
Strangely Charles is probably in tune with a lot of views expressed on here with regard to a range of things like climate change.
We'll agree to disagree on Charles.
Personal opinion on climate change are great, but what kind of impact can you expect him to have? 1000's of scientists around the world get shouted down by redneck flat-earthers and billionaires.
As for popular opinion and a receptive audience, i agree with you. Some might say 'too soon' and so be it.
People can take i whichever way they want to take it and if certain people want to take offence at that and be disgusted and/or embarrassed thats their choice.
Ultimately, it's me pointing out that the queen took us as far as we could hope for in every respect, but the only way is down from here. It'd be a sign of respect IMO if we ended our allegiance in line with her rule and went our separate ways from here.
It's like a champion retiring after winning a flag. Its all down hill from here, why do it to yourself?
Sometimes you need something like this to push you into the next phase or to give you the motivation to follow through with something you've been putting in the too hard basket.
Its like when i talk about changing the way the AFL fixturing and ladder works to make things better Some people take it for what it is. Other negative nancy's project their insecurities onto my thoughts without actually giving them the time of day and attempting to understand them. Berate me for 'ignoring history' and refusing change rather than seeing if change is something that can make things better.
Revisit this in a year and see if the rest of the room has caught up with me.
What could a 73 year possibly have to offer as king?
Completely out of step with modern society. Should bypass Charlie and go straight to William.
But that’s not how a hereditary monarchy works. It’s Charles or nothing.
Interestingly, the first bretwaldas (pre-eminent kings of what became England) were chosen by an assembly or parliament. Hereditary monarchy is not only anachronistic, it’s a product of despotic tyrants trying to secure their offsprings’ future.
Charles is probably more in step with modern society than Will but both are well behind Harry. He seems to understand that the monarchy has no place in 21st century society, other than bringing in tourist $$s.
We'll agree to disagree on Charles.
Personal opinion on climate change are great, but what kind of impact can you expect him to have? 1000's of scientists around the world get shouted down by redneck flat-earthers and billionaires.
As for popular opinion and a receptive audience, i agree with you. Some might say 'too soon' and so be it.
People can take i whichever way they want to take it and if certain people want to take offence at that and be disgusted and/or embarrassed thats their choice.
Ultimately, it's me pointing out that the queen took us as far as we could hope for in every respect, but the only way is down from here. It'd be a sign of respect IMO if we ended our allegiance in line with her rule and went our separate ways from here.
It's like a champion retiring after winning a flag. Its all down hill from here, why do it to yourself?
Sometimes you need something like this to push you into the next phase or to give you the motivation to follow through with something you've been putting in the too hard basket.
Its like when i talk about changing the way the AFL fixturing and ladder works to make things better Some people take it for what it is. Other negative nancy's project their insecurities onto my thoughts without actually giving them the time of day and attempting to understand them. Berate me for 'ignoring history' and refusing change rather than seeing if change is something that can make things better.
Revisit this in a year and see if the rest of the room has caught up with me.
Yep
Best agree to disagree
Twelve months down the track may be a more appropriate time to have the discussion.
The fact is that to get a referendum up and running and framed in a way that you can get a model that will gain general acceptance will take some time.
That was a major problem with the last referendum.
Folks weren't sure just how the model would work and opponents were able to use that confusion to their advantage.
Labor have said they'll work towards a referendum but not in their first term.
Working towards this type of change is not something you push through when you see an opportunity.
That's divisive and would be poorly recieved by many.
That leaves long lasting resentment in a large section of the population.
This is a change you want to stucture carefully and take folks along with you so there is no confusion.
Just finally on someone like the King having an influence on important topics like climate.
I reckon that position gives him quite a platform to talk about and highlight these issues.
RIP Queen Elizabeth. She has been an impressive monarch who will be hard to replace.
I hope Charles III will be better than the 2 previous models. Charles I got his head removed through stupidity. Charles II may have been the 'Merry Monarch', but he was always a political stoolie for his French cousins. Not being able to provide an heir is also a black mark in a family business. That leaves Charles plenty of opportunity to make the third chance the success.
In April I discovered I was Queen Elizabeth's 6th or 7th cousin, I don't remember which. That was pretty weird: I don't consider myself very special at all. I'm an even closer relative to Princess Di, but ...
Just a piece of trivia.
Condolences Crash
Condolences Crash
To us all. I have hopes for Will and Kate, but people like Elizabeth II are pretty rare.
Unlike most people, she lived up to her House motto:
Ich dien. That's German for 'I serve.'
To us all. I have hopes for Will and Kate, but people like Elizabeth II are pretty rare.
Unlike most people, she lived up to her House motto: Ich dien. That's German for 'I serve.'
A gracious and beautiful human being who indeed served for her entire life as she pledged she would. There will never be another.
Yes, well served and an example to others, King Charles III has a difficult role to fill.
Unlike others here, I actually think this is an opportunity to revisit what the historical monarchy can bring, and by that I mean the Commonwealth. Could there now be a willingness considering what is happening in the world, to look at our common interests, and the Commonwealth play a role in shaping the world?
King Charles III has a golden opportunity to encourage the remaking of the world, or watch it devolve further, imagine for instance a Commonwealth trading block as a starting point, with the goodwill right now opening doors that would normally perhaps not be as receptive to change. I get a sense that many things could be possible right now and over the coming 12 months. There is something to build upon I feel, but whether that happens remains to be seen - the United Kingdom has left the EU, does it look at that again, or take his idea and develop it?
Her Majesty was a remarkable woman. To serve as she did with grace, humility and poise without complaint for 70 years makes her one of the best leaders the world had seen during the time of the greatest amount of change.
I am ambivalent towards the royal family, but have seen how they work during visits. No way you would want to do what they have to.
Difficulties were with family management - Charles & Di, Charles and Camilla (early days), Andrew & Sarah, Andrew generally, Harry etc. This is where the biggest difficulties will lie for the monarchy and then KC III needs to gain respect - in a world that is fast losing any.
Her Majesty was a remarkable woman. To serve as she did with grace, humility and poise without complaint for 70 years makes her one of the best leaders the world had seen during the time of the greatest amount of change.
I am ambivalent towards the royal family, but have seen how they work during visits. No way you would want to do what they have to.
Difficulties were with family management - Charles & Di, Charles and Camilla (early days), Andrew & Sarah, Andrew generally, Harry etc. This is where the biggest difficulties will lie for the monarchy and then KC III needs to gain respect - in a world that is fast losing any.
King Charles says one of his first talks is to reunite the family. Andrew, Harry, Will, Kate, The Seppo. As spf said, I reckon he is just the man to tackle some of the world issues and help shape the future.
To us all. I have hopes for Will and Kate, but people like Elizabeth II are pretty rare.
Unlike most people, she lived up to her House motto: Ich dien. That's German for 'I serve.'
100% Captain CRASH. Stoic leaders who are humble yet classy with an unwavering commitment to serve are, as you say, a rarity.
King Charles says one of his first talks is to reunite the family. Andrew, Harry, Will, Kate, The Seppo. As spf said, I reckon he is just the man to tackle some of the world issues and help shape the future.
Andrew needs uniting with a jail cell imho...
So now the AFLW won't acknowledge the passing of a the Queen with a minutes silence in the remaining games because its Indigenous round. One and Free huh? (as long was you aren't a rednec, male, or part of the monarchy). And the AFLW players wonder why there is SFA interest in their game. Lack of leadership by the AFL here I reckon.
The AFLW seems to have forgotten that Indigenous Round is just a hollow PR stunt. They’re treating it like it actually stands for something.
The AFLW seems to have forgotten that Indigenous Round is just a hollow PR stunt. They’re treating it like it actually stands for something.
Why can't IR and a Tribute to QE2 Coxeist?
Terra Nullius.
Terra Nullius.
So we should all pack up and screw off?
So now the AFLW won't acknowledge the passing of a the Queen with a minutes silence in the remaining games because its Indigenous round. One and Free huh? (as long was you aren't a rednec, male, or part of the monarchy). And the AFLW players wonder why there is SFA interest in their game. Lack of leadership by the AFL here I reckon.
Agree that's poor form from the AFLW, the test match between England and South Africa was suspended for a whole day in memory of the Queen and we can't do a minute?I'm not a monarchist but a bit of respect is ok by me...
Perhaps we shouldn’t expect indigenous Australians to allow the round that recognises their culture to be repurposed as the QEII round.
At least the AFLW is able to avoid Indigenous Round coinciding with Australia Day celebrations. Perhaps they’re missing a trick there. Imagine how colourful it would be if an actor dressed as Captain Arthur Phillip and some others dressed as troopers stood behind the Welcome to Country. What a wonderful way to recognise our history and let’s not forget that the red uniforms would certainly add a lot of colour.
This decision seems asymmetrical, can you imagine the kerfuffle if the MCC or AFL ban welcome to country on the Queens Birthday round?
What if we banned Queen's Birthday round because AFL is the men's competition?
I think it exposes how disingenuous the debate has become. There would be many on both sides of this debate who are disappointed.
At best it's disrespectful, at worst it's hypocritical.
Perhaps we shouldn’t expect indigenous Australians to allow the round that recognises their culture to be repurposed as the QEII round.
At least the AFLW is able to avoid Indigenous Round coinciding with Australia Day celebrations. Perhaps they’re missing a trick there. Imagine how colourful it would be if an actor dressed as Captain Arthur Phillip and some others dressed as troopers stood behind the Welcome to Country. What a wonderful way to recognise our history and let’s not forget that the red uniforms would certainly add a lot of colour.
Cant understand why the AFLW didnt think of all that, you should pass the ideas on. QE2 would be have loved to have seen it.
You should be happy the AFLW made that decision. I’m sure it wasn’t a case of indigenous players and spectators just stating a weak preference but otherwise standing ready to back a decision to honour QEII to the hilt. The AFLW was obviously told there would be considerable blowback if it went down that path.
Holding a minute’s silence requires everybody to be on board. Imagine if the crowd had been largely compliant but activists played Beds are Burning, Treaty or the Sex Pistol’s God Save the Queen via portable speakers. They wouldn’t have needed concert-style speakers to thoroughly disrupt the silence.
What about if the players took a knee during, or turned their backs on, the show of respect? What about if they broke ranks and talked amongst themselves? Unlike the NFL where right-wing billionaire owners were able to boycott players who took a knee, the AFLW had no direct means to punish indigenous players and even less ability to discipline the crowd. Maybe they could have installed snipers on top of the stands with instructions to shoot anybody showing disrespect but that might have been controversial.
Such actual signs of disrespect would have caused far more controversy than merely deciding not to have a minute’s silence. Of course, FoxFooty and Ch 7 could have run packages before each game. But maybe they also thought this wouldn’t win them too many friends.
Just recognise that this decision was politically and commercially the most sensible one. It’s just bad luck for Liz that she died during Indigenous Round.
We keep being lectured by people telling us to respect other cultures, ................... but it seems the request isn't a statement of symmetry.
I'm not really a monarchist, but I respect those who are, just as I tolerate and respect and accept the welcome to country, the haka, and halal food services, but I suppose I'm motivated by unity and inclusion and not division.
So we should all pack up and screw off?
pretty much.
Ive stated on here many times. They aren't interested in a united australia they want their lost future back.
Ive stated on here many times. They aren't interested in a united australia they want their lost future back.
I think there are extremists on both sides, and to some degree they get more attention because they are almost always the ones making the most noise.
It's possibly the fault of the moderates on both sides of the debate for not speaking up and reigning them in!
So I partly agree with your observation, but it is symmetrical, it applies equally both ways to a small but very noisy minority.
If there was a cricket test match being played in Australia, there would have been a minutes silence as a bare minimum.
The monarchy may not be the future but if you really believe in being inclusive then you have to respect the past and a lot of Anzacs gave their lives for Queen and country and it's disrespecting them imho.
Feck the commercial and political aspects and just do the right thing imho.Give her a minute and then move on.
If a fractured country like South Africa can give her a day then we can give her a minute.
If a fractured country like South Africa can give her a day then we can give her a minute.
Yes, it's a good example, there are those who wish to drive a wedge at any cost, we should not let them.
It reminds me a bit of the take a knee stuff, some tried to paint those who didn't as racist, yet it was clear in many examples the message was united despite the variety of responses, and the reasons far or against were far more complex than those who want to divide like to make out.
Juxtaposing opposing cultures doesn’t foster unity. Perhaps we should require Pride events to include representation for religious fundamentalists to state their opposition to the sinful behaviour of that community. Maybe BLM protesters should be forced to march side-by-side with white supremacists. After all, what a wonderful message of unity that would send.
Expecting indigenous Australians to share their Round with the head of the empire that colonised their lands is bizarre. It does nothing to unify the country. It equates to putting the onus on indigenous Australians to “forgeddabouddit”.
Anyway, the AFL can hold a minute’s silence at the 2 AFL preliminary finals. Not doing it before AFLW games is not a sign of disrespect: it’s the best way to prevent signs of disrespect.
Just heard that the funeral date will be set to fit in with the Brownlow. Or was it the other way around? 🙃
People don't die every day, and im confident indigenous round could have been moved if they didn't want to share it, and they could have worn the indigenous jumpers an extra week.
Or should they do a minutes silence next week instead?
Personally I dont care really. The royal family have been irrelevant since voting for a prime minister became a thing and thats not even here in Australia its over in Britain.
The monarchy may not be the future but if you really believe in being inclusive then you have to respect the past and a lot of Anzacs gave their lives for Queen and country and it's disrespecting them imho.
I thought many of them gave their lives to defeat Hitler’s Nazis and stop the Japanese invading. They certainly didn’t do it for Liz as she wasn’t the Queen at that stage. I wonder whether they’ve stopped turning in their graves after we dumped “God Save the King” as our national anthem.
@Mav you're deliberately inverting the argument, and fabricating the promotion what is a rather minor and very momentary event to to a point of total domination. This isn't sharing indigenous round, it's not even sharing the game.
As I pointed out, it would be as absurd as banning the welcome to country on the Queen's Birthday round.
What is the reason, why do you want this divide?
I thought many of them gave their lives to defeat Hitler’s Nazis and stop the Japanese invading. They certainly didn’t do it for Liz as she wasn’t the Queen at that stage. I wonder whether they’ve stopped turning in their graves after we dumped “God Save the King” as our national anthem.
There is a bit of irony in your making that point, didn't they (the Anzacs) defend the indigenous as well, or was it that the indigenous did not want or need a defence?
Despite being itself under attack, Britain did send resources and share technologies to aid in Australia's defence, as did the USA and other Allies, as far as I know they didn't exclude anyone.
You say “they” defended the indigenous Australians, implying they were white guys. But you’re right! Indigenous Australians were excluded from service. A few were allowed in as long as they were “substantially of European origin”. I guess you could say the ANZACs defended the indigenous Australians in the same way they defended kangaroos and koalas. Should we focus on the protection provided as an unintentional consequence of protecting White Australia or should we focus on the discrimination that excluded indigenous Australians from the armed forces?
It’s just bad luck for Liz that she died during Indigenous Round.
The selfish bitch
The selfish bitch
Another feeble attempt to hijack an indigenous culture by The Firm, formerly known as the East India Trading Company.
If we had allowed them a minute and they would have taken a millennium!
Luckily for us naivés, this cunning plan was foiled on our behalf by those with open eyes and open minds!
Anyway, enough time wasted, I'm off to the far northern shores to welcome the Chinese to country, apparently they are going to respect the land and leave the gold and coal in the ground! There will be no explosive demolition of indigenous art under Xi, the Chinese understand sovereignty it seems, they have promised! ;D
Unfortunately for our 1st nations people, the friendly Japanese attempting to free our 1st nations people from slavery were crushed by the invaders in residence. :o
I'm not going to live this down am I? :(
If you think I'm not taking some of the extreme perspectives too seriously, well ....................... you could be right!
Reminds me of the time Thry refused to wear a rainbow ribbon, it was an incurable offence requiring the burning of the joint to the ground, as a bare minimum!
Another feeble attempt to hijack an indigenous culture by The Firm, formerly known as the East India Trading Company.
If we had allowed them a minute and they would have taken a millennium!
Luckily for us naivés, this cunning plan was foiled on our behalf by those with open eyes and open minds!
Anyway, enough time wasted, I'm off to the far northern shores to welcome the Chinese to country, apparently they are going to respect the land and leave the gold and coal in the ground! There will be no explosive demolition of indigenous art under Xi, the Chinese understand sovereignty it seems, they have promised! ;D
Unfortunately for our 1st nations people, the friendly Japanese attempting to free our 1st nations people from slavery were crushed by the invaders in residence. :o
I'm not going to live this down am I? :(
If you think I'm not taking some of the extreme perspectives too seriously, well ....................... you could be right!
Probably not. Though I get where you're coming from, Spotted One... you've gotta work on your timing. ;) ;D
As a half Irish quarter Scottish 1% Greek I toasted Her Majesty passing with a shot of "The Dubliner" Irish Whisky liqueur and proffered sarcastically the traditional Gaelic toast "Slainte" (health) to which my 7/8th Gaelic daughter responded "F uck that, Up the Ra!"
This means more to me than any BS opinion from us white folk:
From the HS:
How the AFL will honour Queen’s passing as league scraps minute’s silence at AFLW games and moves Brownlow Medal night
The decision to scrap the minute’s silence at AFLW matches due to Indigenous Round sensitivities has been met with backlash. Plus, the big Brownlow change locked in.
The decision to scrap the minute’s silence at AFLW matches due to Indigenous Round sensitivities has been met with backlash. Plus, the big Brownlow change locked in.
Indigenous elder Ian Hunter has slammed the AFL’s decision to not observe a minute’s silence to honour Queen Elizabeth II during this weekend’s AFLW round of football.
The AFLW is celebrating Indigenous round, with a decision being made to scrap the minute’s silence after the league considered sensitivities regarding the issue.
A minute’s silence was held on Friday night before the Western Bulldogs’ win over Fremantle at Ikon Park but will not feature for the remainder of the AFLW round.
Ian Hunter said it was “deeply disrespectful” to not stand for the moment’s silence in honour of Her Majesty.
“It is totally disrespectful to our country who is a part of the British colony, disrespectful, that’s what I’d say,” he said.
“The problem was there was probably one or two individuals going ‘I don’t reckon we should because of it being Indigenous round’.”
A ceremony to mark the monarch’s death, including a minute’s silence, was conducted before the Melbourne-Brisbane men’s semi-final on Friday night. A minute’s silence will again be observed before the Collingwood-Fremantle match at the MCG on Saturday night.
I thought many of them gave their lives to defeat Hitler’s Nazis and stop the Japanese invading. They certainly didn’t do it for Liz as she wasn’t the Queen at that stage. I wonder whether they’ve stopped turning in their graves after we dumped “God Save the King” as our national anthem.
She worked as a mechanic and ambulance driver during the Second World War didnt she?, and was the first woman in the Royal family to put herself up for active duty, I think a lot of Anzacs would respect her for that and be happy to give her a minute of their time.
It's all a bit strange and confusing...and as usual is a discussion that has folks with strong and opposing views.
I've seen the Aboriginal flag flown at half mast in various places in the last 24 hours.
I'm sure there have been some uncomfortable with that, but it doesn't seem to have caused a lot of fuss.
There may have been some complaints.
I haven't seen them.
A minutes silence may have caused some angst during an indigenous round.
Not having a minutes silence has also caused a problem.
...and it seems some indigenous leaders recognise the potential for backlash.
Some members of parliament have strong views that are totally anti-monarchy
Yet they swear an oath to that same monarch so they can take their place, otherwise they lose their influence.
I wonder how many elders the Hun had to approach before they finally found someone to quote. I can’t wait for the Hun to publish its endorsement for the upcoming Victorian election. It’s so exciting. Will it be Labor or Liberal? Who can say? The uncertainty is killing me.
I wonder how many elders the Hun had to approach before they finally found someone to quote. I can’t wait for the Hun to publish its endorsement for the upcoming Victorian election. It’s so exciting. Will it be Labor or Liberal? Who can say? The uncertainty is killing me.
We must stop the elder having an opinion immediately.
You say “they” defended the indigenous Australians, implying they were white guys. But you’re right! Indigenous Australians were excluded from service. A few were allowed in as long as they were “substantially of European origin”. I guess you could say the ANZACs defended the indigenous Australians in the same way they defended kangaroos and koalas. Should we focus on the protection provided as an unintentional consequence of protecting White Australia or should we focus on the discrimination that excluded indigenous Australians from the armed forces?
That's not quite correct Mav. It is estimated that 15 Indigenous Australians served in the Anglo-Boer War, 1,200 in World War 1 and 6,000 in World War 2. While the “substantially of European origin” rule was applied, Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Australians were generally accepted for enlistment if they had not "lived in a tribal environment".
Discrimination really only kicked in when Indigenous veterans were excluded from the war service benefits granted to all other veterans. Ironically, the Lake Condah Aboriginal Mission in southwestern Victoria was broken up to provide soldier-settlement farms but Aboriginal veterans from the Mission weren't eligible. Uncle Reg Saunders was from the Mission. He served in World War 2 and again in Korea and attained the rank of Captain. He got nothing but his war medals for his exemplary service ... and people wonder why Indigenous Australians don't just accept what they've got.
As an ex-serviceman, nothing annoys me more than "they fought for the Queen". QE2's reign started in 1952 and those who served in Korea, Vietnam, Malaya, Iraq, and Afghanistan weren't there for the Queen. They were there because politicians decided that sending our young folk off to fight in other countries was the right thing to do. I didn't serve the Queen, I served because a bloke whose brother captained Essendon pulled a marble out of a bag and it had my birthday on it.
Paying respect to a dead foreign monarch at the same time as paying respect to Indigenous Australians doesn't work, particularly when that monarch's predecessors oversaw and profited from colonisation.
And I find it so ironic that a womans comp refuses to celebrate (for one screwen minute) of one of the most famous women in history.
Paying respect to a dead foreign monarch at the same time as paying respect to Indigenous Australians doesn't work, particularly when that monarch's predecessors oversaw and profited from colonisation.
I could not disagree more.
You, me, Mav, everyone on this site are all byproducts of colonisation. As I asked earlier, do we all pack up our crap and screw off? When does this end. We are now expected, and quite rightly, to use and live by words like reconciliation, inclusion, equality, except no one told me they are conditional.
Quite the contrary, GIC. I think his opinion should be proof that 100% of indigenous Australians feel the same way and the AFLW jumped at shadows. To do otherwise would suggest that a Murdoch newspaper had little respect for journalistic ethics.
As an ex-serviceman, nothing annoys me more than "they fought for the Queen". QE2's reign started in 1952 and those who served in Korea, Vietnam, Malaya, Iraq, and Afghanistan weren't there for the Queen. They were there because politicians decided that sending our young folk off to fight in other countries was the right thing to do. I didn't serve the Queen, I served because a bloke whose brother captained Essendon pulled a marble out of a bag and it had my birthday on it.
Paying respect to a dead foreign monarch at the same time as paying respect to Indigenous Australians doesn't work, particularly when that monarch's predecessors oversaw and profited from colonisation.
Completely agree.
South Africa seem happy to pay respect to the Queen even with their horrendous past
That's not quite correct Mav. It is estimated that 15 Indigenous Australians served in the Anglo-Boer War, 1,200 in World War 1 and 6,000 in World War 2. While the “substantially of European origin” rule was applied, Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Australians were generally accepted for enlistment if they had not "lived in a tribal environment".
Discrimination really only kicked in when Indigenous veterans were excluded from the war service benefits granted to all other veterans. Ironically, the Lake Condah Aboriginal Mission in southwestern Victoria was broken up to provide soldier-settlement farms but Aboriginal veterans from the Mission weren't eligible. Uncle Reg Saunders was from the Mission. He served in World War 2 and again in Korea and attained the rank of Captain. He got nothing but his war medals for his exemplary service ... and people wonder why Indigenous Australians don't just accept what they've got.
As an ex-serviceman, nothing annoys me more than "they fought for the Queen". QE2's reign started in 1952 and those who served in Korea, Vietnam, Malaya, Iraq, and Afghanistan weren't there for the Queen. They were there because politicians decided that sending our young folk off to fight in other countries was the right thing to do. I didn't serve the Queen, I served because a bloke whose brother captained Essendon pulled a marble out of a bag and it had my birthday on it.
Paying respect to a dead foreign monarch at the same time as paying respect to Indigenous Australians doesn't work, particularly when that monarch's predecessors oversaw and profited from colonisation.
My father and Grandfather were volunteers who fought in the great wars for the Country and for the safety of the Commonwealth, my grandfather was a prisoner of war and tortured by the Germans, he was proud to have served for the Country and the Royals.
I'm a non Royalist and consider the concept of Royal Blood and superior bloodlines deserving higher reward and status ridiculous but Lizzie did a difficult job well and I'm happy to give a minute of my time to respect her and my relatives belief in the Commonwealth system and contribution to the evolution of Australia whether there be both good and bad involved.
As GTC says where does the hate end, people have to move on one day...the Nelson Mandela Foundation wrote a great tribute to the Queen and there is a man who knew a bit more about racism and forgiveness than all of us...
You say “they” defended the indigenous Australians, implying they were white guys. But you’re right! Indigenous Australians were excluded from service. A few were allowed in as long as they were “substantially of European origin”. I guess you could say the ANZACs defended the indigenous Australians in the same way they defended kangaroos and koalas. Should we focus on the protection provided as an unintentional consequence of protecting White Australia or should we focus on the discrimination that excluded indigenous Australians from the armed forces?
Ahh, the mischievous "they"!
We've been down this path before, and when you deliberately misdirect the use of such terms it really says something, but whatever your focus on "they" states, it states it about yourself Mav, not anybody else, not the Brits, not the Americans, not the Europeans, not even our 1st Nations or other Indigenous people, just you Mav and you alone!
Hypothetical.
Had the British not claimed terra australis in the name of the king, what does Australia and the pacific isles look like today?
Are we south American colonised?
Are we an offshoot of China?
There are a multitude of things than can be said about the British but I wonder if the indigenous Australians would have had as much recognition today had they been taken over by another thallasocracy.
Western Bulldogs director Belinda Duarte, herself a Wotjobaluk and Dja Dja Wurrung woman, said the concept of commemorating the Queen's life during Indigenous Round had 'unearthed deep wounds'.
“While for many Australians it’s seen as appropriate to recognise the significance of the Queen’s passing, we must understand what this brings up for First Peoples, the impact of colonisation and what the monarchy represents to us and our families,” Duarte said.
https://au.yahoo.com/sports/nrlw-player-caitlin-moran-under-investigation-over-post-about-queens-death-232520430.html (https://au.yahoo.com/sports/nrlw-player-caitlin-moran-under-investigation-over-post-about-queens-death-232520430.html)
Good move by the AFLW. All the conservative whingers can moan about is a lack of a minute’s silence. But shoehorning that minute’s silence into Indigenous Round may well have sparked the sort of outburst that the above article reported. A female Indigenous NRLW player posted:
Todays a good fkn day, uncle Luke announces his tour, and this dumb dog dies Happpy fkn Friday
By acting promptly, the AFLW secured much more silence from its Indigenous players than 1 minute per game.
Duarte is as Portuguese a name as you can get!
I'll give you an answer to my hypothetical question. What language do they speak in Mozambique, Angola and Brazil?
Caitlin Moran, I shall remember that name now, a classless pig of a human.
Caitlin Moran, I shall remember that name now, a classless pig of a human.
Agree......just no need for that type of comment, she still could have made her point but not descending
to the gutter to do it.
That's the problem though....
We're stuck in this situation where to prevent offence to one group you often cause offence to another.
At the centre of it all is this anger and rage.
Now there is often complete justification for that anger
But anger and rage is a major part of the problem.
It only hardens the views of both proponents and opponents.
Use derogatory words to make your point...
Attack the views of others with emotive language and you won't win them over.
It has the opposite effect.
It reinforces and hardens attitudes.
Folks like Gandhi and MLK had the right idea....but push that non aggressive line and that'll probably get you assassinated
I think it lacks class, not having a moment of silence. If people I've never heard of can have a minute of silence, it is very poor form not to do so for the Queen.
What can you expect from the lower classes?
Class, caste, clan, mob, it's all the same.
Oooh, don’t tell the upper class that class doesn’t matter …
Oooh, don’t tell the upper class that class doesn’t matter …
Birth rites mean nothing, I prefer to judge others by their bank balance! ;D
I can’t believe retailers and others are criticising the announcement of a national day of mourning. That sort of disrespect will not stand!
I can’t believe retailers and others are criticising the announcement of a national day of mourning. That sort of disrespect will not stand!
They are complaining because they do not want to pay penalty rates, it's not about the day off, most of them welcome the business the day off would bring they just do not want to pay the staff to work on a gazetted holiday.
Not really a new issue specific to HRH! ;)
But it’s so disrespectful to complain about a once-in-70-years event over money.
But it’s so disrespectful to complain about a once-in-70-years event over money.
Doesn't it depend on what you think true motives might be, eliminating penalty rates, importing cheap foreign workers perhaps?
I suppose we can hijack every claim for a single cause, it's the modern way! ::)
Don't think we need a public holiday that denies folk surgery even if it's elective.
It's a one off I know but people's health overides the monarchy in Aus imho.
It sounds far fetched, but this late public holiday declaration will wreak havoc on many industries, specifically the building industry.
In residential construction, trades are booked up for months, having to rejig everything by a day doesn't seem like much, but having 20 trades depending on previous work being completed is where things get messy.
This sort of thing can and will be the difference between some people moving into their house before Xmas and not....essentially meaning an extra month of mortgage payments they'll have to wear.
Not sure we really needed the extra public holiday.
I do wonder how much mourning will be going on.....
As it is, that day will be the final training run for the two sides who make the GF.
Let's hope the Pies supporters have a further reason to be mourning on that day....
As much as I understand the concerns, to me the surprise public holiday is no worse than a major storm causing a blackouts or some other unexpected event interfering with transport or staffing.
So for me the main problem isn't the staffing or potential interruptions, the main complaint is coming from those who still wish to trade having to pay public holiday rates.
It's also the case that there is historical data suggesting there will be wide spread absenteeism the day after the funeral, it's happened for Diana, it happened for Philip, it will be even greater for the Queen.
As much as I understand the concerns, to me the surprise public holiday is no worse than a major storm causing a blackouts or some other unexpected event interfering with transport or staffing.
So for me the main problem isn't the staffing or potential interruptions, the main complaint is coming from those who still wish to trade having to pay public holiday rates.
It's also the case that there is historical data suggesting there will be wide spread absenteeism the day after the funeral, it's happened for Diana, it happened for Philip, it will be even greater for the Queen.
The day after is a public holiday for us.